Kallas, von der Leyen and the rivalry over EU intelligence

Summary

Brussels Playbook Podcast: "Kallas, von der Leyen and the Rivalry over EU Intelligence"

Date: May 27, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich (Chief EU Correspondent, POLITICO)
Guest: Katherine Carson (Senior Finance Reporter, POLITICO)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the intensifying debate over EU intelligence-sharing, the institutional rivalry between the EU’s diplomatic service (EAS) and the European Commission, and the broader strategic shifts in European security. It also covers political drama within the Greens group in the European Parliament and the practical inconveniences EU Commissioners face with electric vehicles (EVs). The tone is brisk, conversational, and laced with humor, maintaining accessibility while unpacking complex Brussels dynamics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The EU’s Struggle to Bolster Intelligence Capabilities

[00:28 – 05:52]

• INSEN: Europe’s Intelligence and Situation Center

  • INSEN, part of the EAS, is an 80-person intelligence analysis unit aiming to expand in response to mounting hybrid threats—such as Russian sabotage and election interference.
    • "[INSEN] doesn't have its own spies. It analyzes intelligence that national governments voluntarily share and some open source information..." — Katherine Carson [02:06]
  • Unlike the CIA, INSEN does not field its own agents or steal state secrets, instead collating inputs and providing assessments to senior EU officials.
    • "A bit less sexy." — Zoya Sheftalovich [02:30]

• Limits to Deep Cooperation

  • Intelligence sharing is carefully guarded by national governments—France and Germany, for example, are reluctant to share sensitive intelligence, each prioritizing national agendas.
    • "There is a bit of a cold water that's thrown over the idea of intelligence sharing too closely...they are not going to be sharing intelligence with each other because they've got their own agendas..." — Zoya Sheftalovich [02:30]

• Bureaucratic Expansion Rather Than a European CIA

  • Expanding INSEN is more about resources—staff, HR, and IT—than about dramatic new intelligence capability.
    • "...it's predominantly about adding more staff, giving it an HR function...just means that it's harder to sideline amongst the other institutions." — Katherine Carson [02:58]

• Institutional Turf Wars: EAS vs. Commission

  • Tensions simmer between the EAS and the European Commission, led by Ursula von der Leyen, who failed in a controversial effort to build a rival intelligence unit.
    • "So this is also part of this broader kind of commission tension with the EAS." — Zoya Sheftalovich [03:59]
    • "The Commission had to walk back on its plans...pushed back from national capitals...so it's walked back and now we're seeing it reformulated into a very Brussels solution..." — Katherine Carson [03:59]

• Shifting Concept of Security

  • All developments feed into a new EU security strategy, aiming to cover economic security, supply chains, and external partnerships.
    • "It's all about kind of preparing for the world that we are living in right now, which has a lot more threats..." — Zoya Sheftalovich [04:15]
    • "It's shifting the goalposts in terms of how we think about security in the EU." — Katherine Carson [04:49]

• Profile: Daniel Markić, New Face of INSEN

  • Former head of Croatian intelligence, Markić has brought INSEN newfound visibility—briefing EAS chief Kaja Kallas and EU ministers, moving from back-office role to center stage.
    • "He's transformed it from a sort of obscure back office role into something that's much more visible and much more political." — Katherine Carson [05:12]
  • Yet, he and the broader EU still face the core challenge: EU members reluctant to fully share sensitive intelligence.
    • "They're not actually that keen on sharing the really sensitive stuff...look, we're partners, we're not friends." — Zoya Sheftalovich [05:31]

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2. Greens in the European Parliament: Political Turmoil

[06:01 – 09:59]

• Identity Crisis: Dutch Merger Complicates Alliances

  • The Dutch 'Progressive Netherlands Party' ("Pro") resulted from a merger of the Workers Party and Greens Left Party. While stable in The Hague, their European Parliament group must choose: stay with the Greens or join the Socialists & Democrats (S&D).
    • "It's got eight MEPs, so it needs to decide if it wants to stay a part of the Greens group, where they'd wield more power because it's a smaller group...or if it goes to the S and D, it becomes part of a much larger and more powerful group. But it's a small fish in a big pond." — Katherine Carson [06:40]
    • A defection would seriously weaken the Greens, impacting their speaking time, roles, and overall influence.

• Broader Decline of the Greens

  • The Greens suffered significant loss in the 2024 election—losing a quarter of their MEPs. The current flux reflects a wider European pushback against Green policies.
    • "It's part of this broader pushback against the Green agenda that we're also seeing in Brussels this time around." — Katherine Carson [07:44]

• Leadership Drama

  • Bas Eickhout, a major Greens leader and prominent election debater, resigned amid controversy over a previously undisclosed workplace relationship.
    • "He has recently left his post because of a previously undisclosed workplace relationship...the story goes that this one was not [disclosed]." — Katherine Carson [08:28]
    • Eickhout’s tearful resignation was a major moment within the Greens group.
    • "People were crying. It was really dramatic." — Zoya Sheftalovich [08:49]

• Political Implications

  • Eickhout’s departure is a symbolic blow as the far right gains strength, leaving the Greens rudderless at a crucial time.
    • "We’re seeing the far right kind of step into this void...I think this is going to be a huge blow to the Greens..." — Zoya Sheftalovich [09:59]

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3. Electric Vehicles: Emissions Goals Meet Reality

[10:34 – 13:38]

• Commissioners’ Annoyance with EV Ranges

  • Commissioners are obliged to use EVs for the monthly Brussels-Strasbourg trip (about 450km/5 hours), in line with a drive for fleet emission reductions.
    • "You can either stop in Luxembourg and charge up or you need to stop somewhere on the highway...for about 20 to 30 minutes to charge the car." — Katherine Carson [11:17]
    • Even though some EVs can technically make it without charging, actual ranges vary, leading to enforced pit stops.
    • "We've had a few people come and good naturedly gripe to us...twiddling their thumbs, or a privilege." — Zoya Sheftalovich [11:29]

• Sustainability vs. Convenience

  • Despite minor grumblings, the switch has paid off: emissions from the fleet are down 47% from 2019.
    • "Apparently they've done it by 47%...good news all round." — Katherine Carson [12:07]
  • Exceptions: Commissioner Oliver Vaheli sometimes travels in a van, and President von der Leyen uses an armoured non-EV for security reasons.

• Why Not Take the Train?

  • Special monthly trains are provided for MEPs, assistants, and journalists, but not for commissioners who argue they need to make "sensitive phone calls."
    • "...they can't be doing that sitting next to young Katie Carlson from Politico." — Zoya Sheftalovich [13:11]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Intelligence Sharing:

  • "We're partners, we're not friends." — Zoya Sheftalovich [05:31]

• On EU Institutional Expansion:

  • "This is the very EU bubble...adding more staff, giving it a HR function..." — Katherine Carson [02:58]

• On Green Decline:

  • "They lost about a quarter of their MEPs..." — Katherine Carson [07:44]
  • "We're seeing the far right step into this void..." — Zoya Sheftalovich [09:59]

• On EVs and Humanity:

  • "Sometimes we need to pee because we too are human." — Zoya Sheftalovich [12:03]

• On Podcast Listener Feedback:

  • "He reckons his mornings are less depressing since the podcast started." — Zoya Sheftalovich [14:36]

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• [00:28] – Start of episode's main content: Introduction to the day's major Brussels topics
• [01:26] – EU intelligence: INSEN and the push for expansion
• [05:05] – Daniel Markić's growing role and limits of EU intelligence sharing
• [06:01] – Greens and European Parliament: Dutch party drama and wider Greens decline
• [08:28] – Bas Eickhout's emotional resignation from the Greens
• [10:34] – EU Commissioners, EV road trips, and range anxiety
• [12:51] – Exceptions to the EV rule and why commissioners don't take special MEP trains
• [14:02] – Listener feedback segment

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Conclusion

This episode provides a brisk tour through the complex intersections of EU intelligence politics, Green Party turmoil, and the everyday consequences of climate policy, peppered with humor and inside-pol Brussels flavor. For listeners, it's a window into intra-EU rivalries, shifting political power, and the sometimes comic realities of driving an EV across the continent’s bureaucratic heart.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Good morning. It's Wednesday, May 27, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is classified as the EU tries to beef up its intelligence capabilities. Also on the pod, the Greens in the European Parliament are having a bit of an identity crisis and some European commissioners are frustrated that their EVs don't make it all the way to Strasbourg from Brussels without having to stop for 20 minutes to charge. I'm Zoya Shevdolovic and with me today is senior finance reporter Katherine Carson. Hey, Katie, have you been watching Roland Garros?

[C]

Hello, Zoya. I am hyped rather for Wimbledon because I just found out I got tickets. I'm very excited for.

[B]

I'm so jealous. Which round?

[C]

I do not know. It was my friend that got them.

[B]

Can I be friends with your friend? Because I have failed miserably.

[C]

Shout out to Vessela.

[B]

All right, folks, from tennis to security. Brussels wants to get a bit better at intelligence, Katie. And our colleague Tony Rusi has a story out this morning looking at this body inside the EU's diplomatic service, the EAS. It's a unit called INSEN and it's the Intelligence and Situation Center.

[C]

Yeah, so it's basically Brussels's little intelligence analysis hub. It's got about 80 people there. And now the EAS wants to expand

[B]

it and that's because of the threats the EU is facing. All of the attacks, hybrid attacks coming from Russia, sabotage scares, election interference, etc. So there's a bit of a move to increase intelligence capacity in the eas.

[C]

Exactly, but we also shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. This is about the furthest thing possible from an EU version of the CIA or something like this. Incent doesn't have its own spies. It doesn't steal state secrets. What it does is it analyzes intelligence that national governments voluntarily share and some open source information, and it passes its assessments on to senior EU officials. So the Commission, the European Council, senior people in the East. Bit less sexy.

[B]

Yeah, a bit less sexy. And to be clear, you know when you do reporting for a story like this, you know when I talk to people around Town to diplomats around town and they talk about intelligence sharing. There is a bit of a cold water that's thrown over the idea of intelligence sharing too closely on this level, because obviously the spies that France have, that Berlin have, they are not going to be sharing intelligence with each other because they've got their own agendas that they're running around the world. So, sadly, this isn't some sort of Kumbaya of spies around Europe.

[C]

Exactly. And also, it's a bit more of a bureaucratic process than it might sound in terms of actually beefing this up. It's predominantly about adding more staff, giving it a HR function. Giving it an IT function, which it's very EU bubble. It just means that it's harder to sideline amongst the other institutions.

[B]

Yeah. And this is part of this broader debate that's been happening in Brussels around the role of the EAs, the kind of diplomatic corporate core of Europe. And there is some tension that exists because a lot of the functions that the EAS has, have overlapping functions with some of the other EU institutions and some national institutions as well. So it's this, like, great hulking body led by Kaia Kallas, that used top diplomat, that has a lot of. Well, bit of an identity crisis, really. And this is one of these ways in which it tries to assert itself a bit more in Brussels. So that's kind of what's been happening. And this comes a few months after Ursula von der Leyen tried to create an intelligence unit within the Commission. So this is also part of this broader kind of commission tension with the EAs.

[C]

And we should say that that did not go well. The Commission had to walk back on its plans to create its own intelligence unit that was pushed back from national capitals. There was pushback from the EAS itself. So it's walked back and now we're seeing it reformulated into a very Brussels solution, having HR and IT people.

[B]

Exactly. So, anyway, look, this is also part of just a broader shift, like if remove the institutional kind of fight from this. It's about the EU preparing for this European security strategy, which is expected later this summer. And what they're trying to do is beef up defenses and look into issues like economic security, supply chains and preparedness, partnerships with countries outside the eu, that sort of thing. So it's all about kind of preparing for the world that we are living in right now, which has a lot more threats than perhaps it may have obviously had previously.

[C]

Yeah. To move from tennis to football. It's shifting the goalposts in terms of how we think about security in the eu.

[B]

Oh, that was a beautiful. A beautiful callback, Katie, let's talk quickly about the guy who's running insen. This is Daniel Markic, who's this kind of interesting fellow, used to run Croatia's

[C]

intelligence service, but he's actually becoming more prominent in Brussels conversations, in EU security conversations.

[B]

So.

[C]

So he's doing things like he's regularly briefing Kaya Kallas, the head of the eas. He talks to EU ministers about security developments. He actually goes to meetings of EU foreign and defence ministers and briefs them on the threat situation beforehand. So he's transformed it from a sort of obscure back office role into something that's much more visible and much more political.

[B]

Yeah. But alas, the problem that he's running into, I'd say, is the exact same problem that everyone runs into in this area, which is that EU governments, they're not actually that keen on sharing the really sensitive stuff. And Tony spoke with a bunch of people in this field and they kind of hosed down the idea that this might be some sort of European five eyes. They were saying, look, we're partners, we're not friends.

[C]

Cue the James Bond music. Now,

[B]

Katie, our next story is about some European Parliament drama, our favorite kind. It's about the Dutch center left Party, the Progressive Netherlands Party, AKA Pro. It's having a bit of an identity crisis.

[C]

Yes. So back home in the Netherlands, Pro was the result of a merger between the Dutch Workers Party and the Greens Left Party, which has all gone okay back in the Hague.

[B]

Not so okay in the European Parliament because the new party is trying to decide whether it wants to stay part of the Greens or if it wants to move to the Socialists and Democrats after this merger. And it's kind of a pretty big call that could affect the Parliament in a big way.

[C]

Definitely. Because in the Parliament you have the midterm reshuffle coming up that's going to be in early 2027. And that's where the key jobs in the body are all divided up. And in terms of what Pro has to play with, I mean, it's got eight MEPs, so it needs to decide if it wants to stay a part of the Greens group, where they'd wield more power because it's a smaller group, they've only got 53, or if it goes to the S and D, it becomes part of a much larger and more powerful group. But it's a small fish in a big pond. They've got 136 already.

[B]

Yes. So this would Be a pretty consequential move. I mean, it would really hurt the Greens if this party leaves the Greens not only because of the numbers, because obviously 8 out of 53 is a big hit, but also because the number of minutes you get allocated in the European Parliament to speak the sorts of roles you get when it comes to chairing or being the rapporteur on reports, which is important to MEPs, that all is reliant on how. How many MEPs you have. Like it's the relative size of your group versus others. So it would be a hit to the Greens influence in the European Parliament and kind of part of this broader decline of the Greens on that EU level and in. In national parliaments as well around Europe lately.

[C]

Definitely. I mean, they were quite wiped out in the 2024 election. They lost about a quarter of their MEPs. So, you know, it's a part of this broader pushback against the Green agenda that we're also seeing in Brussels this time around. Their influence would be declining and it's at a time when they've also had other drama going on.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So pro is going to decide at a congress in mid June. And so, you know it's coming or at least that's when the process is going to start. So it might take a little bit of time for them to actually make the final call, but we're coming up to the big decision moment, so we'll see what they do. But the decision making process is going to look a little different because last week, bas, I count the face of the European Greens in the Parliament, he quit as both an MEP and the co chair of the group. And that means they've lost a real heavy hitter.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, Eickhart has definitely been around in Brussels for as long as I can remember. He faced off against Commission President Ursula von der Leyen in all of the 2024 election debates. He really used to be a big figure and he has recently left his post because of a previously undisclosed workplace relationship involving a staff member, which is allowed, but has to be disclosed. And the story goes that this one was not.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. And so we've actually been covering this very closely. Our Parliament reporter, Max Guerrera, has been at the forefront of this story and. And he reported that last week, on Wednesday, I could gave a statement in the Greens room to lawmakers where he was visibly emotional, saying that he was going to quit and left the room. People were crying. It was really dramatic. And it came after a week prior he'd actually told the party that he was in a new relationship with Lena Schilling, who is the youngest MEP in parliament. She's 25 and Baz is 49.

[C]

But according to his spokesperson, the resignation had nothing to do with this particular relationship.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. So it's about a different relationship that had not been disclosed because this relationship with Lena Schilling was disclosed. So look for people who aren't as obsessed with the European Parliament as perhaps one M Griera might be. Tell us, why should they care?

[C]

So iCount used to be a huge figure in the Greens, the same way that the Greens used to be a huge force in the Parliament. They were massively influential during the last term when we were dealing with all of the Green Deal legislation and when the European Commission was very much on side with the Green agenda. Now we're seeing that massively pushed back.

[B]

We're seeing the far right kind of step into this void and larger far right contingent. So I think this is going to be a huge blow to the Greens, the loss of ikelt and we'll see what happens. Whether someone is able to step into his shoes and start wheeling and dealing like he used to, or if the party kind of continues on its trajectory. Katie, onto a fun story today. It's about EVs. Did you know that I drove one of the first electrical vehicles in Australia?

[C]

I did not know that. What kind of car was it?

[B]

It was a Mitsubishi Imiev.

[C]

Cool.

[B]

It was tiny, it was silent. And when I was going across the Harbour Bridge in it, the wind literally shook it from side to side.

[C]

And how long did it run for before you'd have to stop and charge it?

[B]

It had a range of about 130km at best.

[C]

Innovation has come for all of us.

[B]

Things have changed. Things have definitely changed. Yes. Katie, what this story is about is when the European Commissioners need to go down to Strasbourg for the European Parliament plenary that sits there once a month, they have to take a commissioned vehicle and the fleet has become an EV fleet because the Commission set this target during the last term to reduce their emissions from their fleeted vehicles.

[C]

Yeah, it's about a five hour drive. It's 450 kilometers. And as it goes, you can either stop in Luxembourg and charge up or you need to stop somewhere on the highway in the middle of Nowhere for about 20 to 30 minutes to charge the car.

[B]

Yeah, and that's right. And look, some of these vehicles, they do technically have a range that should be able to make that trip. But firstly, it's a very long journey. So if they're going fast on the highway or if they happen to be driving around before they got in the car to go down to Strasbourg, then the number of kilometers that that car can do might reduce. So they're having to stop. And basically we've had a few people come and good naturedly gripe to us about the fact that they're having to wait at the side of the road or at a petrol station somewhere for 30 minutes and it's a bit of a waste of time twiddling their thumbs or a privilege.

[C]

It's a nice chance for a break.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Some of them have said, look, sometimes we need to pee because we too are human.

[C]

And that being said, it obviously makes a lot of sense that the commission switched to using EVs in the first place. They wanted to neutralise the carbon emissions of the fleet. Apparently they've done it by 47%. They're 47% down on emissions compared to 2019. So good news all round. And you get some extra breaks in there.

[B]

Exactly. But that said, there is one commissioner who hasn't been regularly using that EV fleet. That's Hungary's Oliver Vaheli, who sometimes travels in a van with his team.

[C]

And there is another member of the commission who doesn't use an ev.

[B]

That's right. Well, to be fair, Ursula von der Leyen, the commission president, also doesn't use an ev. But that's not because she doesn't particularly want to. It's actually just because she needs an armored vehicle and it's hard for that to be an ev, so she has a different car as well.

[C]

And what about the train? Why can't they slam it with the rest of us on the train from Brussels to Strasbourg?

[B]

That's a great question. And some of our listeners may not know, when the European Parliament decamps to Strasbourg once a month, there are these special trains that they run so that MEPs, their assistants, journalists etc can go down and do this thing. And they're special trains. They don't run normally.

[C]

But they can't use them.

[B]

They can't, because the commissioners say they need to make sensitive phone calls during the trip and they can't be doing that sitting next to young Katie Carlson from Politico.

[C]

Frankly, goals?

[B]

Absolutely. Well, folks, if you're a regular driver of an EV and you've got some tips for the commissioners and their drivers for how to make your battery juice last longer, send us a little note. What's your tip, Katie?

[C]

I have absolutely no idea. I'm a horrible driver. But I do have friends who complain about the very same issue, specifically in France.

[B]

Ah, well, perhaps people could just drive slowly. All right. Well, folks, yesterday we asked you about your thoughts on the next EU long term budget and guess what, Katie, what people actually wrote in.

[C]

I am actually surprised.

[B]

As am I.

[C]

Normally I'm driving people away at dinner parties when I want to start talking about the EU's long term budget.

[B]

I know I was. It was a Hail Mary call out on our WhatsApp line, which you can link to in the show notes. Folks, click and click and respond. But we've had Stepan from Czechia who wrote in. Well, firstly, he wrote in to correct my pronunciation of Czechia's famous cheese, which I will not speak of again. It's the fried cheese. It was delicious. I had it and it was bloody good. But he reckons that as for the mff, Europe should be federalized because a proper country with its parliament, nukes and a 27 member executive body would be fair and fun.

[C]

Fair play fair. That's what he reckons.

[B]

He also reckons his mornings are less depressing since the podcast started. So thanks, Chapan.

[C]

Certainly for us too.

[B]

That's right, Katie, best time of the day. All right, that's it from us, folks. Make sure you're subscribed if you haven't already. Please tell a friend about us and rate us. You know, we still haven't hit 1,000 reviews.

[C]

It's unfortunate. Yeah, I really think we need to remedy this situation.

[B]

Could you just get five laptops and just review us on each one?

[C]

I'm going to start a whole bot farm just to review the podcast.

[B]

Perfect. I'm sure that's a really good use of your time. Speak to you tomorrow.