
Ursula von der Leyen survived a motion of censure — but not without sustaining damage.
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Sarah Wheaton
We heard you introducing the New York Times Family subscription one subscription up to four separate logins for anyone in your life. Find out more@nytimes.com family that sound you're hearing is the sound of a major release in pressure. I'm here in Strasbourg where we just had one of the most tense weeks in European politics that people here have ever seen. As I sit here in sort of an airy corridor right near the media area of the European Parliament, people are slowly filing out, but they just went through a pretty tense a vote of no confidence. Now they're a regular feature of national politics, but in Brussels or this week, Strasbourg, they're more like collector's items. They're so rare, in fact, that people don't even call them votes of no confidence. In EU jargon, they're called motions of censure and they almost never succeed. The last one that even took place was more than a decade ago in 2014. And then just now, this week, I came here as Ursula Fonder lyen faced this formal attempt to bring her down along with her entire commission. It started on Monday. She came and she made all 26 of her commissioners come along in a symbolic show of unity to defend her record and fight back against what she called an outright lie.
Katerina Barley
What we hear from you are movements fueled by conspiracies from anti vaxxers to Putin apologists. And you only have to look at some of the signatories of this motion to understand what I mean.
Sarah Wheaton
Okay, look, on the one hand, I don't want to overhype this. There was pretty much no chance that this motion, which was put forward by a hard right Romanian was actually going to succeed. On the other hand, it came at a moment when a lot of people in her centrist coalition, the one that von der Leyen needs to get a lot of her legislation passed, are pretty angry with her. So what could have passed quietly as a far right publicity stunt instead turned into a rare public airing of grievances from across the political spectrum. So the motion itself, put forward by Georgia Pepera, accused von der Leyen of all sorts of sins. Opacity, overreach, lack of transparency regarding COVID vaccine contracts. Separately, the Social Democrats and liberals are getting more and more fed up with von der Leyen's party, the center right epp, for cutting deals with the far right on migration, on rolling back climate legislation and more. And that frustration was front and center here in Strasbourg. So the big question, would the centrists really do anything? What are their red lines? And while they supported her this time, will they walk away if Fonderlyen and the EPP drift too far right? Or was this week just theater? I'm Sarah Wheaton, host of EU Confidential, and while I'm in Strasbourg this week, we're still looking east. Later on, we'll hear a powerful dispatch from our colleague Veronika Melkozyrova in Kyiv. She'll take us into the reality of life under near constant Russian bombardment and look at how people are trying to stay safe. In Veronica's case, that means sleeping on a mattress in the hallway of her apartment to avoid being hit by shattered glass from exposure floating windows. But first, I'm heading deep into the bowels of the parliament building. Down on level negative one, there's a press room and a little studio we managed to grab. The place is buzzing. Journalists, staffers, and giant, slow moving hordes of visiting students everywhere. What's on everybody's mind? What does this motion really mean? Because it may have come from the fringes, but the fallout that was right in the mainstream. So let's start with the man who lit the fuse, or as he puts it, opened Pandora's box. Jurga Pepera. He's new here, but already shaking things up. He's a law professor and an ally of Georges Simeon, the nationalist political leader in Romania who recently lost the presidential election against a pro EU candidate in a close contest. Let's hear what he had to say. You put forward this motion to have a vote of no confidence in Ursula von der Leyen and her commission. Why? And why now?
Jurga Pepera
The answer is very simple. The motion of no confidence is something, as usual as water in a democracy. Actually it's the most important tool used by an opposition to get rid of an executive which is abusive, is illegal, illegitimate, etc.
Manfred Weber
Etc.
Jurga Pepera
The fact that in the whole history of this European Union there were only seven monsieur of non confidence doesn't mean that this is something exceptional and about motivation. The two commissions von der Leyen gathered collected too many power in too few hands. The Commission in the last six years grabbed power from the parliament and skipped the parliament, avoided the parliament, leaving the parliament with no powers and no involvement in crucial decision. I couldn't stay and look passively, in a passive manner as a lawyer, as a professor of law and not to do anything. Second trigger, it's of course Fisergate case. The lawyer in me shouted out, go and try to fix this problem. And it's also a good moment because you know there is a fracture, obvious fracture now in the majority. EPP is fighting SMD, EPP is fighting Renew, Renew is fighting with BPP, etc. Etc. So there is a very big fracture. There is a loss of confidence into Frau von der Leyen. This is obvious. People used to think about Ursula von der Leyen, that he's like a tsar, he's like an emperor who cannot be kept responsible, liable, accountable. And he's not Madame von der Leyen. It's a person like us, like you, like me.
Sarah Wheaton
Well, so let me ask you, as you said, people are not really very used to these types of motions being presented at the European level. And we're speaking before the vote. This will air after the vote. Vote. It's not expected to be successful. So what would success look like for you?
Jurga Pepera
Very interesting. I know that the motion will probably 90% will fall. I am not naive because of the fact that there is still this so called majority supporting von der Leyen. But this is not my goal. The goal is to make a fracture. The goal is to make this majority think about what was wrong in the administration, the two administration of von der Leyen and to convince her to leave because it really is time to leave for her.
Sarah Wheaton
The socialists and Renou are very angry at Fon der Leyen right now. So why aren't they supporting your motion?
Jurga Pepera
They cannot do this because they are considering this motion submitted by the so called far right, by extremists. Why this cliche? Why this stamp on our head is very, very wrong. I am not using violence, not at all. I am not radical, I am not racist. So how can you say something like this about us, that we are far right and extremism One says, madame von der Leyen, if you are against me, you are against the European Union. So you are a friend of Putin. First of all, I do not have any intention to destabilize the European Union. I want to consolidate, to clean this house. Me as a person, I will never make business with Putin. I don't like the leadership of Putin. Actually, I hate this kind of leadership of Putin.
Sarah Wheaton
Let me ask about another reaction from a party leader, in this case Nicola Procaccini, who's the co chair of the ecr, which you're also part of. And he basically said, you know, we're not particularly happy with von der Leyen, but ultimately the EPP and the ECR have been starting to work together. He basically said, you're just helping the socialists with your measure and that you're just kind of doing this to get attention. What do you think about that argument?
Jurga Pepera
I'm not gonna tell you too many things about this because it's a matter of being polite to my Italian colleague. But nevertheless, his discourse was not only unexpected, but very, very mean. He said that the people signed this motion were somehow naive, somehow infantile, sunning because they didn't know what they signed. You cannot say something like this about them. Let me tell you something. Starting from this motion of mine, which is a kind of opening Pandora box, there will be another several motion of non confidence against Ursula, against, I don't know, because they said, wow, is it possible? Yes, this is possible. This is in the treaty. And if it's in the treaty, you should use it.
Sarah Wheaton
All right, well, we'll see if this is indeed the start of a new style of politics here in the Parliament. All right, well, thank you so much for joining me.
Jurga Pepera
Thank you for having me here.
Sarah Wheaton
Now, Pipera's motion didn't get support from many lawmakers, but it did make quite a splash. Some MEPs saw it as an opportunity to, let's say, sent a warning to Fonder Lyon and her party. And we saw that play out. As soon as the debate began, the gloves came off. Pipera made his case, and then we heard from von der Leyen herself.
Katerina Barley
What we have just heard from Mr. Piperia was clear for all to see. It is taken right from the oldest playbook of extremists, polarizing society, eroding trust in democracy, attempting to rewrite the history. We can follow Mr. Piperia down his world of conspiracies, or we can clearly call this out for what it is, another crude attempt to drive a wedge between our institutions, between the pro Europeans, pro democratic forces of this House. We will never let this happen.
Sarah Wheaton
Then boss of her EPP family, Manfred Weber, doubled down on that message with.
Jurga Pepera
This motion of censure. We are wasting time. Putin will like it what his friends are doing here. This motion of censure is against the security of Europeans.
Sarah Wheaton
And then the real fireworks started. Garcia, leader of the Socialists, made her point in respect the legislative agreement, respect your word, and if you betray it once again, be clear that social democracy will lead the resistance. We will not give an inch. And then Valerie. Aye. And she's head of the Renou group, which is the centrist liberal party in the European Parliament. She made her point in French. Don't take anything for granted. Please put your own political house in order, get a grip, so that we.
Katerina Barley
Can work together with you to achieve.
Sarah Wheaton
What we jointly wish to achieve. Clearly, Fonderlyen had some cleanup to do with her centrist allies to see how that process played out. I found Katarina Barley, a vice president of the Parliament who represents the Socialists and Democrats, one of the clearest voices calling out what she sees as an anti European drift. She ducked out of a different meeting to chat with me in the hallway. Katerina Barley, thank you so much for joining me.
Katerina Barley
Very welcome.
Sarah Wheaton
When it became clear this vote was going to happen, the Socialists and Democrats were kind of in an interesting position because you didn't want to be seen as signing up for this kind of far right effort. But at the same time, you had some pretty big gripes with commissioned president Von der Lyons. So internally, how did you guys kind of think about this?
Katerina Barley
Well, I think your analysis is exactly right. There was no question for us from the beginning we would never support this motion because we cannot support the people who presented it because the reasoning was completely lunatic. But of course, it put on the spot several points that we were stressing or that we have been stressing for a while. The first one is the BP reaching out to the far right side of the plenary. And now they see who these people are that they are relying on to find majorities more and more in this past year, and that they do not have good intentions. This is not even one of the far right groups. This is ecr, the group that EPP always fought for to be accepted as being part of the Democratic platform. And now everybody sees how ridiculous this idea. And the second point was that the progressive side of the Parliament was absolutely united and very clear. This cannot continue as it goes at the moment. So this was a very special, special day for us.
Sarah Wheaton
And so the Choice in the end ended up being to either abstain or to actually vote no for the motion. There have been negotiations happening over the past few days. Where did the essence.
Katerina Barley
Well, before the discussions, before the negotiations, a lot of us said, either we will abstain or we will not participate in the vote because we do not support the extreme right. We never do. But we want to make clear that there is something that has to be changed. The negotiations went well, content wise, as also concerning the atmosphere. We managed to get a big concession by Oslo von der Leyen, the Commission president, who wanted to exclude the European Social Fund from the next multiannual financial framework, which is the seven year budget. And that for us was an absolute no goal. So this is a very, very important step for us Social Democrats, and we're very proud to have achieved that.
Sarah Wheaton
During the speeches, Orache Garcia, the head of your group here, she did say, look, we're not going to support this, but if you betray us again, and I'm almost quoting her directly, if you betray us again, Social democracy will be leading the resistance. What would a betrayal look like? And what would leading the resistance look like?
Katerina Barley
Well, what upsets us is that now, of course, we do have a change in the composition of the plenary. So we have two possible majorities. One is the Democratic coalition. We call it the von der Leyen coalition, even because it's the parties who supported her. So that's Conservatives, Social Democrats, Greens and Liberals, or the Conservatives can find a majority with the far right. And what really is unacceptable for us is the conservatives coming to negotiations and saying, this is what we want. And if we don't give them like 96% of what they want, then they say, okay, then we turn to the far right. So for us, betrayal would mean that this goes on. As I said, we have proven that we are absolutely willing to compromise. We are absolutely accepting that the EPP is the biggest group that should be reflected in the compromises we find. But it still has to be compromises. And the question what we can do? Well, we could become an opposition bloc. We could just say, then, if that's what you want, if you want to go with the extreme right, then go with the extreme right. Then have fun with the budget negotiations, because these people hate the European Union, a lot of them, and they will not be constructive in any budget negotiations. So go ahead, do it.
Sarah Wheaton
A lot of people have said, yeah, we see that the Social Democrats are willing to compromise, but we don't see that they're willing to really stand up to Fondue So why should XI or Manfred Weber take these threats seriously?
Katerina Barley
Because I don't think that they have very much of an alternative either. I mean, there are of course other measures that can be taken. I think if you were there in the room and if you looked into the faces of epp, it felt as if they heard the message, what is.
Sarah Wheaton
Some legislation that we should be looking at and that you'll be looking at to see if EPP and von der Lyon are following through on the commitments they've made?
Katerina Barley
Well, the very first is of course, the budget. At the moment they are trying really to completely demolish the Green deal also there. We are absolutely willing to talk about adjustments. That's maybe two of the most important.
Sarah Wheaton
Georgia Pepera said that he showed that it's just really actually not that hard to launch these motions of center and he predicted that this will start happening more often. Could this be a tool that's useful and that the Socialists would embrace?
Katerina Barley
The Socialists are very responsible politicians. We have always been fighting for democracy and it will stay that way. So of course it is a possibility and I would never exclude it. But it's not what we want to make daily politics of now.
Sarah Wheaton
Okay. Katerina Barley, thank you so much for joining me.
Katerina Barley
Very welcome.
Sarah Wheaton
So how is this landing with Ursula von der Leyen's political family in the Parliament? Are they feeling chastened by these threats from the Socialists? Not so much. They argue that smaller partners like the Socialists in Renou need to accept that the balance of power has shifted since the last European election. This is the message that we're hearing repeatedly in Strasbourg from the center right. The argument is that this is all, all just going to blow over and that ultimately the pro European coalition, or platform, as they prefer to call it, is still holding with some adjustments. To hear more, I went to someone firmly in Fonderleijn's corner and someone who's had a close up view of nationalist parties threatening to take over the mainstream. Siegfried Murasan, a senior EPP figure and a member of the European Parliament from Romania. We heard a lot of anger on Monday, not only from the side that put forward the motion, but from the kind of, as we would say, the grand coalition, from the EPP's partners in the Socialists and Democrats. Renew the Greens. Now there are negotiations happening to kind of see what the result of the vote might be. How are those going?
Manfred Weber
Look, the European Commission and the European Parliament are two different institutions. It's normal that we do not agree on every comma, but we do have democratic Legislative processes, specifically to agree between the Parliament, the Commission and the Council in which member states are grouped. That of course has nothing to do with the motion of censure initiated by the most marginalized members in the marginalized groups. And of course some of the speakers on Monday used the opportunity of the debate to express some different opinions than the Commission has on different subjects. But all of that will be clarified in legislative processes. I'm convinced that pro European groups will be united behind the Commission because every vote that that motion of CENZER receives weakens not only the Commission, but it weakens the pro European groups, the pro European majority. So when Eurosceptics, when extremists, when populists try to weaken the European institutions, we as convinced pro Europeans shouldn't use that moment to bargain, to extract different concessions. Of course we expect certain things from the European Commission, including on files that I'm responsible for the multiannual financial framework, the next seven year budget. But that's something for our day to day business. And that's not a reason, you know, to question the Commission. We would weaken ourselves. I expect broad support for the Commission.
Sarah Wheaton
We interviewed Georgia Pepperia, the person who put forward this motion. You share a home country. And he said, look, from my perspective, it's pretty normal to have this type of test and accountability. And I in fact think that this no confidence vote might become and should maybe become a somewhat more regular thing. You know, what do you make of this? And are we entering a period where European politics start to see the same sort of polarization, gridlock fighting that we're seeing in a lot of national capitals?
Manfred Weber
Yeah. Firstly, the authors of this motion of censure, though they come from the same country as I do, don't speak on behalf of the country. More than 80% of Romanian members will of course vote against the motion. They clearly attempt to weaken Europe, our legitimacy, the trust that people have in European institutions. Because frankly speaking, this is what the pro Russian playbook foresees for them and this is what they try to do with this motion of censure. They would love nothing more than doing this on a continuous basis. None of us will ever cooperate with them in trying to build a constructive majority. So I do not believe that this behavior will gain traction. If they want more frequent confirmations of how irrelevant they are in the Parliament, they will receive them and other votes as well.
Sarah Wheaton
Aur is a member of the ECR of the European conservatives and reformists. Will this make it harder for the EPP to collaborate with the ecr? When relevant.
Manfred Weber
For sure, our as of this week is a major liability for the ECR group. Certainly ECR were more credible as a political group without AUR amongst their ranks.
Sarah Wheaton
A lot of the criticism that we heard on Monday from the center and center left pro European parties was directed just as much at EPP leader Manfred Weber as it was at Ursula von der Leyen. We sort of interpreted that as them sort of saying to von der Leyen, hey, get your guy Manfred in line if you want us to really back you.
Manfred Weber
Look, the truth is there is no majority possibly in this parliament without the epp. And as I said, many of us in the EPP programming majority in fact have a clear preference for cooperating with the other pro European parties. We have an obligation to make this cooperation work, but so do other pro European parties. They shouldn't take the votes of the EPP for granted. And majorities have shifted this term in comparison to the previous term. So the situation in which pro European parties, left of the center, they can impose things on the EPP as they did in the previous term, has changed. So what I'm trying to say is we would always prefer to work with the pro European centrist and center left parties, but they also have to understand that the end result in this term will have to be a bit more EPP and a bit less left leaning.
Sarah Wheaton
We heard basically threats from the S and D on Monday saying hey, you know, we're not going to support the center motion this time, but watch out. I think Aracha Garcia basically said, if you betray us again, Social Democrats will lead the resistance. How seriously do you take that type of threat?
Manfred Weber
A commission needs to take the Parliament into account and this is something important. The Parliament should always hold its ground and defend its positions firstly. Secondly, also within a so called coalition, different parties have different expectations. They have demands and it's normal for them to voice them the day to day work legislative process. So socialists making certain demands is okay if they are proportionate with their role here in the House, with their size, with their dimension. We need the socialists for a poor European majority. This is why we will listen to their demands to a certain extent.
Sarah Wheaton
And then came Thursday and with it the vote.
Katerina Barley
Okay, so we are going to vote on a motion of censure on the European Commission. Those who are running in, I will let you run in so that you can put your card in the machines. Quite a lot of members still running in. And the vote is open. Vote is closed and it is rejected.
Sarah Wheaton
Not surprisingly, Fonder Lyons survived, but it was a bit tighter than she would have liked. Out of 720 MEPs total, 553 showed up to cast a ballot. 360 voted against the motion, as in supporting fonder Lyon, but 175 voted in favor of it and 18 formally abstained. The motion would have needed 357 votes to pass. So the commission stays in place, and if you ask the epp, it's business as usual. But that's not quite how it felt in the building. Because if there's one thing this week proved, it's that this centrist coalition platform, whatever you want to call it, is on edge. Von der Leyen and her team have made some promises, and now we wait and see whether they keep them. The Socialists and Renew have sent their ultimatums, and now we wait to see whether they mean them. Now let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll completely shift gears and you'll hear a personal account of life under bombardment from our colleague Veronika Melkozyrova in Kyiv. You won't want to miss it. Stay with us. Veronika has reported on the war since Russia's full scale invasion in 2022 and over the past weeks. Like many others in the Ukrainian capital, she's been living through a new phase of fear and exhaustion as Russian attacks intensify and as US Military support falters. We asked her to record something for us, just her voice in her home late at night.
Veronika Melkozyrova
Hi. I'm recording this from the corridor of my apartment in Kyiv. It is the only place that feels even a little bit safe at night. For the past three and a half years, war has been part of my life, part of everyone's life here. A deadly routine. We fall asleep to the sound of air raid sirens. Sometimes we don't sleep at all. But recently, some things changed. I used to fill saving key as we had some of the best Western air defense systems, the patriots people from other parts of Ukraine came here to shelter. Now that feeling is gone. Since Donald Trump returned to the White House, US Support has started to vanish. First he cut military aid to pressure us into so called peace talks with Russia. Then it happened again. America saying it must put its own interest first. Last week, Trump spoke with Putin. He admitted there was no progress. A few hours later, Russia launched one of the biggest missile and drone attacks on Kyiv since the war began. At least four people died, dozens were injured. My city filled with thick, acrid smoke. Now massive attacks happen at least twice a week. Smaller ones every single Night. So we wait. We listen. We know that every time a narrate siren starts after dark, someone will be killed. Every night feels like a kind of lottery. I sleep on the floor of my corridor, on a mattress we bought recently. It has an electric pump, but before that it was just a thin pad. Others sleep in underground parking lots, on subway platforms, in their bathrooms, places where shattered glass won't cut you. But you know nothing will save you from a direct hit. Anyway, I live on the 14th floor and my building has no shelter. Most buildings here don't. There are more than 3 million people living in Kyiv, and most of us, especially those far from the subway, have nowhere truly safe to hide. The Ukrainian writer Viktoria Amelina once described air raids like. It feels like everyone is brought out for execution. But only one person gets targeted, usually the one at the edge. This time, not you. All clear. Viktoria was killed by a missile in 2023. She was sitting in a cafe in Kramatorsk. Her words stay with me, because that's how it feels every night. It might be you or not. You just don't know.
Sarah Wheaton
Shh.
Veronika Melkozyrova
When I lie down to sleep next to me, I keep my documents, my phone, my water bottle, a small first aid k. Last week I bought new pajamas, and when I wore them for the first time, I thought, at least if rescuers pull me from the rubble, I'll look decent. Then I remembered I still haven't bought a whistle. I only recently learned you're not supposed to scream if you're trapped. It wastes your air. You can die before they find you. So instead of screaming, you should whistle. That's the kind of thing we talk about now. During attacks, we constantly message friends and family. Are you okay? Are you okay? Some people cope differently. When the sirens go off, they don't panic. They start shopping online. Not me, though. I usually scroll the news, checking what was hit, how close it was to me, to my mom, to my granny. Are you okay? Are you? Or I pet my dog, Hans, trying to calm him down. He gets really scared. He pants heavily, or sometimes he barks, trying to scare all of the drones. A psychologist I know who lives here in Kyiv region, once told me the readiness to die at any moment turns some people into bear nerves and others into wise men. At night, during the sirens, she orders flowers online. When you sleep on the floor, your body aches in strange places. Your hips, your back, your neck. You might get one hour of rest, just enough to wake up in a bad mood. Still, we try to be kind we try to be patient. We wake up, we go to work, we walk our dogs. Life goes on. We have to be strong, even when it feels like the world is slowly letting go of us. The US used to be our strongest ally. Now it often feels like they are walking away. And Europe? Europe is trying. But it's not enough. On July 4th, US Independence Day, Russia attacked us with 550 drones and missiles. A new record was set this week, over 740. Can you imagine? Now only numbers like that make headlines. The world doesn't notice the smaller attacks that keep happening day and night. And the morning after that record breaking, super scary night. Shops opened, people bought bread, hospitals treated the wounded. And Kyiv kept moving. We always do. Until the next night. This week there was some good news from Washington. President Trump said he would send weapons again because we need them to defend ourselves. Really? But what kind of weapons? And when will they arrive? Right now, the only place I have left is this corridor. It's where I feel some strange kind of safety. As if I'm sitting inside a circle drawn in Charles. A circle meant to scare away monsters. But the monsters aren't scared. They keep coming back. We still believe in our future. But with every new attack, with every statement of condemnation from the west, with no real sanctions, no new defenses, no frozen Russian assets handed over to us, our hope fades one drop at a time. But we keep going. We don't have a choice.
Sarah Wheaton
That was Veronika Melkozyrova speaking from Kyiv. If you'd like to read her full essay, you'll find the link in our show notes. And that's it for this week from Strasbourg, please make sure you subscribe to EU Confidential wherever you listen to podcasts, rate us and leave a review. You can reach us@podcastolitico EU. And a quick reminder, this is the last chance to send your summer book recommendations. I need a vacation. You've got another week to shoot them over in writing or as a short voice note. Thanks to Deanna Sturris, our senior audio producer, and to Ann McElvoy, POLITICO's head of Audio Special Shout out as well to Bertrand Vigier, a technician in those Bells of the European Parliament who helped us record some interviews. Signing off from Strasbourg, I'm Sarah Wheaton. See you next week.
EU Confidential – Episode Summary
Podcast: EU Confidential
Episode: No-confidence vote: Is the EU Parliament about to break?
Date: July 11, 2025
Host: Sarah Wheaton (POLITICO’s chief policy correspondent)
This episode unpacks an exceptionally tense week in European politics after a rare no-confidence vote—technically, a "motion of censure"—was brought against European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and her Commission. The motion, initiated by newly-elected Romanian MEP Jurga Pepera from the far right, catalyzed widespread grievances and anxieties within the Parliament, revealing deep fissures in the centrist coalition that has anchored EU legislative politics. The episode features interviews with key players from across the political spectrum and closes with a powerful first-hand account from journalist Veronika Melkozyrova in war-hit Kyiv.
Jurga Pepera (on motive for motion):
“Actually, it’s the most important tool used by an opposition to get rid of an executive which is abusive, is illegal, illegitimate, etc.” [05:51]
Katerina Barley (on EPP’s alliances):
“This is not even one of the far right groups. This is ECR, the group that EPP always fought for to be accepted as being part of the democratic platform. And now everybody sees how ridiculous this idea…” [14:06]
Sarah Wheaton (on debate’s fallout):
“…if there’s one thing this week proved, it’s that this centrist coalition platform, whatever you want to call it, is on edge. Von der Leyen and her team have made some promises, and now we wait and see whether they keep them.” [27:03]
Veronika Melkozyrova (on living under fire):
“Last week I bought new pajamas, and when I wore them for the first time, I thought, at least if rescuers pull me from the rubble, I’ll look decent.” [34:08]
“We don’t have a choice.” [39:18]
The episode’s tone is urgent, candid, and—at times—emotional. Host Sarah Wheaton maintains journalistic balance but conveys the Parliament’s anxiety and the rawness of the war’s impact in Ukraine. Politicians speak in both combative and conciliatory tones, mirroring the divided state of EU politics.
For further reading and Veronika Melkozyrova’s full essay from Kyiv, listeners are directed to the show notes.