← Brussels Playbook Podcast
Brussels Playbook Podcast
Parliament takes a break. The plotting begins.
00:17:24
MEPs are about to head off on their six-week summer break. But that doesn’t mean an end to the political headaches.
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- [00:00]
A
Good morning. It's Thursday, July 16, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is unwind you laxed with the European Parliament's 719 lawmakers heading for summer recess. Also on the pod, Europe wants to ban social media for kids. But is Australia a warning or a trailblazer? And the EU's new border system can't tell identical twins apart. There you have it, Ian.
- [00:34]
B
Sorry, what did you say the vibe today was?
- [00:36]
A
I said it's unwind your legs, much like you right now.
- [00:39]
B
Never heard of that word. Is that a word?
- [00:41]
A
Well, you're clearly not a 30 Rock fan.
- [00:44]
B
I'm still an emotional wreck after last night's football, but I do have some monkey news for you based on yesterday's episode. Shall we wait until the end of the podcast to tell you?
- [00:54]
A
Yeah, I would love that. I should probably introduce us. I'm Zoya Shaftilovic and with me today is our senior EU politics editor, Ian Wishart. Ian, first story. The European Parliament's 719 lawmakers are about to head off on a six week summer break.
- [01:09]
B
Nice.
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A
Not too shabby at all, meps.
- [01:11]
B
Nice work if you can get it.
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A
I don't mind it at all myself. But it doesn't mean there's an end to the political headaches, because just on the other side of this summer break is the Parliament's midterm reshuffle.
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B
Yeah. Biggest thing of all though, is what do they do about a problem called Roberta Matsola?
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A
Some say problem, some say solution.
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B
Yes. Most assume she's going to be seeking a third term. The problem is that the opposition groups, particularly the Socialists, think that they had
- [01:41]
C
a some kind of agreement that she wouldn't and that they would a new president would come from their group. So there's a lot to think about over the summer, isn't there?
- [01:48]
A
Yeah, there is. And we've been hearing about this agreement, Ian, for Yonks and, and the S and D. This is the Socialists and Democrats. They have claimed that an agreement exists which was done between the epp, the European People's Party, which is Roberta Matsola's party, the S and D, and the Liberals, which basically shares around some of the most powerful jobs that the EU has. Now, we've never seen this agreement, even though they say that it's in writing. And basically the EPP is saying, no, don't know anything about it. We want to keep this, you know, European Parliament presidency. S and D argues that's not fair because the European Parliament presidency and the Commission Presidency are both epp, both conservative presidencies. So they want to go in the hot seat. And the EPP says, look, sit down and be humble because you've got the socialists in power in the Council.
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B
So I think, according to our European
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C
Parliament reporter, Max Guerrera, who has got his nose to the ground, as ever, about what's happening in the European Parliament, before they all go on holiday, the
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B
smart money is on Metz Solar getting
- [02:51]
C
this third term in reach, supposedly possibly, of this agreement, but then the other groups getting something in return.
- [03:00]
A
Yeah. So one of the options that Max reckons is on the table is to give the Secretary General post to the S and D. And that's currently held by Metsola's former chief of staff, Alessandro Ceccetti, and he is an EPP official.
- [03:13]
C
He's considered that.
- [03:14]
A
Yeah, yeah. Not officially, but unofficially seen as an EPP kind of post. But the EPP is not likely to give away that position, which is super important particularly easily.
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C
Max said he asked two EPP MEPs about it and they basically laughed in his face.
- [03:31]
A
I mean, that's one way of answering a question. He reckons there are a few other options. So there are some vice presidencies of the Parliament, there are committee chairmanships, senior admin posts, top director general roles. They could all be in play to try to placate the Liberals and the S and D. The Liberals, that's renewed,
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B
the Renew group, they reckon, or at least they're looking for some kind of
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C
written commitment between these three main groups, them, the renewed group, the S and D and the epp, for some written agreement to say this central majority should hold together. The EPP shouldn't rely on the far
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B
right parties, the further right parties, to
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C
pass legislation, and that sort of comes
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B
into this big compromise about jobs and
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C
that kind of thing.
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A
Yeah. But the EPP knows that it can count on the right wingers and those further to the right, the far right, to support Metsola.
- [04:23]
B
I am interested in the quote that Max got from the S and D Group chair. Our group is willing to negotiate everything,
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C
she said, so that shows how much is up for grab. She says negotiation will not only be about posts, it also has to be about political commitments. There's a tremendous amount of horse trading going to go on in the autumn.
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A
There is, but also, I mean, one question that I have and which I asked Max, but Max said, you know, there's no answer to this question. It's who would even be the candidate for the S and D if they did want to replace Mets?
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C
They don't seem to be able to answer that question.
- [04:56]
A
They can't. They can't. So that's partly the issue here because it's not like they're all kind of rallying around one particularly popular person who can take down someone who is quite powerful Parliament president. So I think that's part of the problem. They haven't really got a natural candidate. And per the power sharing deal of the presidency, it's meant to be a German SPD politician who comes out of this. So, yeah, like, not too many people that we are hearing about.
- [05:22]
B
There's one other thing in the mix
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C
which I find fascinating is does the Parliament give jobs to the Patriots?
- [05:29]
A
That's an interesting question. The Patriots are the far right grouping in the Parliament. They don't actually get the top jobs in the Parliament. They don't get the vice presidencies. There's 14.
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C
There are 14 of them. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. And so they really want those.
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B
The European Parliament's third largest group now.
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A
Yeah. And they argue that it's really unfair. And basically the reason they don't have those vice presidencies is because of this cordon sanitaire that we've spoken about on this podcast before, which exists in the European Parliament, which basically states that the mainstream groups, the centrist groups and the left wing groups will never allow the far right to get those positions.
- [06:04]
C
But I mean, as we've seen, Zoya, you know, the EPP has done some deals on to pass legislation with the far right that shows that that kind of fireball is beginning to crumble. I think it's going to be a fascinating next couple of years in the Parliament.
- [06:24]
A
All right, folks, our next story. It is about this social media ban that Europeans keep talking about. Now, this one is an interesting one for me in particular, because the first country in the world to have implemented a social media country, it's my. Well, one of my countries. Yeah. So Australia banned kids under 16 from having social media accounts as of December last year.
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B
Is it seen as having worked in Australia with the average person in Australia think this was a good thing and
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A
this has worked well, I think those are two very different questions in terms of whether they think it's a good thing. Generally, you know, from the people who I speak to, parents of teens, they reckon it is a good thing because it gives them a way of saying,
- [07:03]
C
look, you can't also, therefore don't do it.
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A
You can't have this account. You know, this is. This is not for you. So I think they feel a bit empowered by having that as kind of a place plausible reason that you can give your kids for why they can't have. Social media, whether it has worked or not is up for debate. And the social media platforms argued that it isn't working. And there's a bunch of people who agree with them. And even on Monday, Ursula von der Lyon, the European Commission president, this is
- [07:29]
C
a link between Australia and the eu. Let's, let's say that because the EU are considering doing something similar here.
- [07:34]
A
Yes. At the EU level. And we talked about it on Monday on this podcast.
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C
You did.
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A
What the EU is considering doing is implementing some sort of ban. And Ursula von der Leyen was given this report on Monday by a panel of experts and they looked at all sorts of things and they considered the Australian example. And those experts, when they were briefing reporters, including our colleague Eliza Grizzi, they basically said, well, the Australian thing doesn't really work. But I sat down via Zoom with Australia's Esafety commissioner yesterday, and she is the woman who's been leading the vanguard the charge on this ban in Australia. And she told me that she doesn't think that this is actually appropriate to say that the Australian ban hasn't worked.
- [08:16]
B
Because if she's the one being leading it, she would say that, wouldn't she?
- [08:19]
A
Well, she would, but the argument is pretty persuasive. She said that firstly, it's too early to tell and it takes a really long time to change behavior. But more importantly, she said the social media platforms that are affected by this, it's in their best interests and they've been undertaking those best interests to actually make it look like this thing is failing.
- [08:36]
C
Yeah. So that's actually, let's take this right down to the basic level is social media companies are saying obviously they don't want these restrictions. So they're saying to the eu, yes, it started in Australia, look, it's been a complete and utter failure. So why would you even think about it?
- [08:52]
A
Yeah. And Julie Inman Grant, who is the Australian E Safety Commissioner, she also told me that, you know, these social media companies have been pulling out all the stops to campaign against it in Australia. And the thing they're trying to show is that it doesn't work. So there was even this report called 100 Days of Failure commissioned by one of the social media firms and then sent around to media groups. And she said, look, the problem is compliance. She said, these companies are not complying. They could do much better, but they are choosing not to because then they can show people like, oh, this thing doesn't work, don't bother doing it. And so she's been asking for and has been granted some additional powers. So the Australians are going to be doubling the fines, there's going to be better enforcement mechanisms that she's going to get. And she's saying, look, this is a super challenging geopolitical environment in which to make this tech policy, because the Trump administration is nakedly trying to influence governments around the world. They're threatening various countries for implementing tech rules. So she said, this is the climate we're working in, but there's safety in numbers, and if we all regulate, then it is much easier for us to kind of withstand that pressure.
- [09:57]
B
And I suppose the argument is very
- [09:59]
C
similar to saying, yeah, we can ban cigarette sales to children under 16. That doesn't mean they can't sneak into a shop and get a friendly shopkeeper to give them or get an older parent to get the cigarettes for them. But that doesn't mean we should just therefore allow it.
- [10:13]
A
Yeah. And it creates friction. And that's the point of these Australian rules, the point of what the European Commission is going to do. And speaking of.
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C
Slightly bit harder.
- [10:20]
A
Yeah, yeah. And this is something. So, you know, Ursula von der Leyen, she spoke about how she's really convinced that something needs to be done. She mentioned it in her last State of the European Union speech last year, and we're expecting her to mention it again this September. And we think that's really. There's going to be a ban.
- [10:36]
B
It was nice to speak to Australian.
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A
She's not Australian, she's an American. It's very confusing indeed. Australians importing, Americans taking our jobs. Ian, have you ever watched the Parent Trap?
- [10:53]
B
Never heard of it.
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A
Classic Ian.
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B
Why is it a film?
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A
It's a film about twins.
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B
Yeah. I never heard of it.
- [11:00]
A
Well, Ian, the reason we're talking about the Parent Trap, or apparently not talking about the Parent Trap, because you don't know anything, is that the new entry exit system for non EU citizens to visit Europe is proving to be problematic.
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B
Why is that?
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A
Well, just to briefly remind people what this is about. If you're not an EU citizen and you're coming into the eu, into the Schengen Zone, instead of getting a passport stamp, you have to get your face and your fingerprints recorded. Well, this thing is causing some backups around various places in Europe. We've had some interesting stories on this.
- [11:29]
B
Huge queues, but we see this, you know, people queuing for three, four hours in airports.
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A
There's a new element to this entry Exit system shenanigan.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Which is that it seems it can't really tell the difference between twins.
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B
I can't tell the difference between twins.
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A
Yeah, but you're not manning an EU border, Ian.
- [11:46]
B
True. I'm not looking at the biometrics.
- [11:48]
A
Yeah, that's right. We've got a super interesting story by our colleague John Stone that's come out. So we've been reporting that one of our colleagues, female colleague of ours in our London office, was traveling recently and she was flying home from Romania when the border police pulled her aside. Basically, the system had told them that she had entered the Schengen Zone through Amsterdam several weeks earlier and had never properly left. Except she'd never been to Amsterdam.
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B
But her twin sister had.
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A
Correct.
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B
Wow.
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A
Yeah. So they basically thought that they were one and the same person, and even though she explained to them what had happened and that she had this twin and etc. Etc. They were not particularly helpful. And she was actually accused of lending her passport to her sister, which she had not done.
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B
And they're definitely not one in the same person. Have we seen them both in the same room ever?
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A
Well, I don't think so, but, you know, I don't expect that her sister would have much business in Politico Towers.
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B
But interesting, isn't it, that something that's supposed to be foolproof and, you know, actually is there to guard borders doesn't seem to be 100% foolproof.
- [12:51]
A
Yeah. So we spoke with some experts to find out what had gone on. And basically it seems like probably what happened was that because this trip from Amsterdam happened very early on when the system, the exit entry system, was only just kind of being implemented and there were some technical problems and glitches and that trip may not have been properly registered. And basically there were possibly. The Romanian border guards were just relying too heavily on the facial match and they didn't have all of the information.
- [13:22]
B
So they're saying it happened, it wouldn't happen anymore.
- [13:26]
A
Well, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, the Commission said, look, we are giving people in these countries more resources. If you're a member country, you can ask for Frontex border officials to come and help. It's not us, it's the member countries that are having issues, but we are magnumoniously giving them assistance and they can carry out checks better.
- [13:51]
B
Do you want some more monkey news?
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A
Oh, my God, yes.
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B
Because we talked yesterday about monkeys. Do you know a monkey is on the loose just over the border from Belgium and Tilburg?
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A
No, yeah. What's it doing?
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B
It escaped from a zoo. Do you know, the funny thing is, people from the zoo keep going to capture it and the monkey recognizes the zookeepers, so runs away. So they decided they wouldn't go in their zoo uniforms anymore. They'd go in their normal clothes. The monkey still recognizes them.
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A
Yeah, because you know monkeys. Well, not all monkeys.
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B
Monkey would recognize identical twins and no witches, which I can assure you. Monkeys are clever.
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A
They are. I have more than one monkey story, Ian, and no one has written in with their monkey story.
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B
They were too busy commenting on you swearing.
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A
Yeah, we did get some people writing in about my. About my self censorship. And the overlord. That is Ben Reninga. Ben, send us a podcast.
- [14:44]
B
He's our podcast chief.
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A
He is. I've just read in my notes here that he sent us a clip. This is the first time I'm hearing it. I look forward to it.
- [14:53]
D
Hey, this is Ben the Man Reininger. I just briefly wanted to address allegations that I'm a fun policing censorious overlord. While I do want the show to be good, family friendly fun, Zoya, I'd also just note that while you delicately avoided saying pain in the ass, about three minutes later, you confidently told someone to F off. So I'm not too worried that Yalls wings are clipped. Love the show.
- [15:18]
B
The most shocking thing about that is he says he loves the show.
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C
I'm surprised.
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A
First time I'm hearing it.
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B
Jesper from Denmark notes a similar thing. Do you want to read what his message said?
- [15:29]
A
Oh, yeah. All right. Then Jesper says, I love your podcast. It's genuinely one of the best out there because you're both serious and funny at the same time. Zoya, you always make me laugh, especially when you call Ian a monkey and censor yourself to avoid swearing and then casually drop the F bomb later on.
- [15:45]
B
Oh.
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A
Anyway, this was a deluge. Thank you, folks, for sending us these notes.
- [15:52]
B
Thank you, Zoya. Is there a podcast episode tomorrow? There is, isn't there? It's the Brussels Weekender.
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A
It's not Weekender. It's Weekender.
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C
Weekender.
- [15:59]
A
Get it right. Well, it's going to be a fun one because all of the summer holidays are about to begin. So we've got three of our colleagues coming on. Jordan Dahl, Tomato Lekka and Ben Munster. And they're going to talk about the disruption to travel that there may or may not be due to this Iran war and new passenger rights. It's going to be a good one. Good folks. Leave us a review. Send us a voice note link is in the show notes as per usual. Share us with your friends and enjoy
- [16:26]
B
the World Cup Final G. What a
- [16:28]
A
day that's going to be.