B (2:02)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's not a coincidence. I would say that he's ramping up that pressure just as the European Parliament this Wednesday is expected to meet with the European Council to discuss a new proposal that's being made around this Termberry agreement with some various little tweaks and pools here and there to try to satisfy meps who really want to go more gung ho and say that this deal is not fair because it's kind of lopsided because the US is getting no tariffs and the EU is going to have to swallow 15% tariffs.

C (2:32)

As they used to say, this is the best deal we could get. That's what the European Council chief said defending this deal at the time. So not super bullish on the terms of the deal. Now, after this threat, the EU has been quick to respond. The European Commission has said we want to keep our options open.

B (2:47)

Uh oh, whatever that means. I'm terrified, Nick. I'm sure Trump is quaking in his boots.

C (2:52)

Fighting words burnt. Lange, the chair of the Parliament's trade committee is called the threat unacceptable. But Manfred Weber, the leader of the European People's Party, is calling for swift conclusion of trade negotiations in Parliament. What does that mean?

B (3:05)

Well, I think it means he's a German from the center right, who wants to protect his industry and he wants to make sure that cars are not going to be on the chopping block. And it's already being felt. I mean, this is definitely already. The tariffs that the US has implemented have hit the carmakers of Europe and Germany is exposed because it is the, the capital of Europe's carmakers. So look, it's pretty spicy. Brando Benefay, who's the chair of the Parliament's delegation to the us, he told our Brussels Playbook colleagues that Trump is acting like this because he's frustrated with the position of the Europeans on the Iran war. And that's especially so when it comes to the German government because of course, we've got a pretty significant split between Germany and the US over Iran. Yeah.

C (3:48)

And Benefit told us something significant, which is he's going to call on the commission to bring out its trade bazooka, the anti coercion instrument this would raise would escalate the trade standoff significantly. Let's recall that so far, EU countries have always stopped short of using this instrument. But he's bringing it out again as an option here.

B (4:07)

Yeah, and this is something. Look, I think, Nick, this is a bit boy who cries wolf here at this point, because I remember back when this Turnberry agreement was in the process of being negotiated, we had lots of politicians telling us that's it. If Trump does these trade threats and follows through on them, we're going to hit back hard. And so I think that is also now haunting Europe because I think Trump saw that Europe, well, He called the EU's bluff, essentially. But now Benefit, he wants to put it back on the table, the trade bazooka. Whether that happens, we'll, we'll see. Because as you say, there isn't really an appetite in the council and you know, particularly among Germany, which is going to be up for a big hit if they do go ahead with it.

C (4:48)

Can't get around Germany.

B (4:50)

And Nick, that's not the only thing that Trump is doing when it comes to Germany. He also has threatened to remove 5,000 troops from German soil because he's really pissed with the German chancellor's position on Iran, because you'll remember that Merz Friedrich Merz, the German chancellor, he said that the US Is being humiliated by Iran at the negotiating table. And Trump did not like that.

C (5:12)

Yeah. So this is really huge announcement. On Friday, the Secretary of War, Pete Hexseth, announced the removal of 5,000 troops, American troops in Germany. And Trump followed up on Saturday, saying, we're going to cut way down and we're cutting a lot further than 5,000. Let's recall there are 33,000 US troops stationed in Germany. This is seismic for the transatlantic relationship.

B (5:34)

Yeah. And there's a reason why those troops are stationed in Germany. And by the way, the US Troops aren't just in Germany. And Trump's threats don't just affect Germany because he's also threatened Italy and Spain. But the reason for that is because traditionally the US has kind of been this protector for Europe and the nuclear umbrella has been extended over EU allies. This is all part of the NATO transatlantic alliance. But Trump has been pushing back against this alliance and he's been calling it all sorts of names. And this is just the latest move that he's making to punish Europe and specifically to punish those countries that have criticized him.

C (6:10)

Right. And it's also a logistical base, the Ramstein base is there, big hospitals serving U.S. troops in service around the world. But what this really is about this time is this split over Iran. You have these European countries that have criticized Martz, has really gone out harshly, criticized the war, and it's kind of pulling this alliance really apart at the seams in ways that are more and more apparent every week.

B (6:37)

Yeah. I think you made the point to me earlier, Nick, when we were having a conversation. You said, well, yes, it's because of this Iran stuff, but actually this is something that the Trump administration has been wanting to do for ages. They've been flagging these troop pull down efforts for a long time.

C (6:52)

Absolutely. And people have been waiting for the US Force Posture Review, which goes over all the troop deployments all over the world. People were expecting that for news, for predictability of when and how the US Was going to pull down its troops. And that's yet to be published. And that's given the administration the ability to spring these announcements on the Europeans and kind of keep them off guard, use them politically, as with in this juncture with the Iran war criticism.

B (7:19)

Yeah. And that's pretty handy for One, Vladimir Putin.

C (7:23)

Absolutely. Who is watching this? And of course, noting every withdrawal by the US Exposing Europe more and more to Russian threats.

B (7:38)

Well, that was a phenomenal segue, Nick, because that's exactly what we're talking about next with our second story. It's almost like you knew it. Our second story today, it's about Putin's window of opportunity. And you and I teamed up for this one. A bit of a team effort.

C (7:53)

Those are generally the best ones.

B (7:54)

I agree. Well, this story, basically, we've been speaking with defense officials, with NATO officials, with politicians around Europe over the past few weeks, and there's been a thread that has emerged for both of us, which is that this is. Feels like a very, very dangerous moment for the Baltics and for countries that are kind of just outside of Russia's physical landmass.

C (8:17)

Absolutely. So people point to a lot of factors, a lot of stars aligning here. They say Putin could be tempted to test NATO's defenses, to test Article 5 while Donald Trump is still in power, while he's threatening to pull out of the alliance, while transatlantic relations are pretty bad and the EU has not yet fully ramped up its defense. Capab still critically reliant on the United States. And they say there's this kind of window of opportunity extending essentially from now, this season until whenever the EU becomes strong enough in its own right to deter Russia.

B (8:53)

Yeah, and this is something that's super interesting, Nick, because when I was speaking to people, when I was reporting out this story, the theme that I was hearing is like, now is the best possible time for Putin, from his perspective, to test NATO and to test Article 5. Article 5 is that common defense mutual defense clause where an attack on one is an attack on all. Because what they were saying is like, Europe has this once in a lifetime investment in its defense industry. Right now they are pumping money into various countries defenses, into anti drone missile defenses, et cetera. And at the same time, Trump is kind of pulling the US Further and further out from this transatlantic alliance, out from this friendship with Europe. And so if the Putin waits, then Europe will be better armed and the US Might be under a new leader and might be more willing to come to Europe's defense. So they see this as kind of a narrow opening.

C (9:47)

And the story makes a really important point, which is that Putin may see this as a way of increasing his leverage at the negotiation table with Ukraine, because if he makes European countries afraid of an attack, they might pressure Kiev into giving up territory and striking that deal that they don't want to sign.

B (10:05)

Yeah. And like, we should be clear, we're not talking about a literal land invasion en masse, you know, of the style that he launched in Ukraine. This is the people who are talking to are talking about quite small, calculated kind of incursions, maybe a few troops on an uninhabited island in the Arctic, or maybe some drones that cross the border into Finland or Poland, which he's already been doing, famously. He loves to send a drone at Belgium when the European Council summit is meeting to discuss Russian assets. So that's the kind of thing that he may do. And the fear is that if it's small, if it's calculated, if it's kind of murky, what's happening, then that might really lead to confusion. And then the NATO allies may not know, do we do something? Do we not? Trump may see it, the US Administration may see it as a minor kind of incursion and force Europe to the negotiating table.

C (10:58)

Right. And let's remember that in order to invoke Article 5 of NATO, you have to have unanimous backing for it. That means the US has to be on board. And if something like you describe happens, it might be under what they consider the threshold of a real threat. But for Putin, the point will be made. They're not going to respond to this.

B (11:16)

Yeah. And you actually spoke with Gabrielius Langbertis, the ex Lithuanian foreign minister, and he told you that Putin could escalate horizontally against another neighbor, trying to avoid a humiliating negotiation with Ukraine.

C (11:29)

Exactly. And it's interesting to see the different lines we heard from that region where we had you interviewed an MEP from Finland, quite alarmist. But I also had a chance to speak to the president of Estonia, who would be first in line and is striking a different note. I think their view is if you sound this alarm, then you are kind of serving Putin's agenda. You're feeding into the fear, and they want to downplay that. So different sounds coming out of the Baltics about this kind of window of opportunity.

B (11:59)

Whereas Mika Altola, who is the MEP, one of the MEPs I spoke with, he said, well, look, if we don't acknowledge that this is a possibility and that we need to prepare for it and be ready for it, then that means that we are not going to be properly funding, properly preparing for such an eventuality. And he says, we don't want to be lulling people into a false sense of security. And even in your interview with the Estonian president, he did concede, look, no one saw the Ukraine war coming.

C (12:25)

He certainly did. And he said we have to speak, we have to be prepared, and we have to have no subjects off the table.

B (12:30)

Yep. So that story is up right now if folks want to read the whole thing. Nick, for our last story today, the leaders of around about 50 countries are in Armenia for a European Political community summit today.

C (12:46)

Indeed, We've got the UK's Keir Starmer, Canada's Mark Carney also flying in just for this. It's important because a non European country so far never taken part in the epc. And we see signals that, you know, with so much uncertainty with Trump, countries like Canada are looking for to get closer to the eu, get closer to Europe.

B (13:05)

Yeah. So much so that they're willing to do an 11 hour plane ride if you're Carney.

C (13:09)

I know seems like a lot, but.

B (13:11)

But he's down to clown. Well, it's not the only thing happening in Armenia today. There's also the EU Armenia summit, which is. It's the first of its kind, actually. And it's essentially part of this kind of shift that Armenia may be undertaking away from Russia's sphere of influence, which was one of its closest allies previously.

C (13:29)

Yeah. So, I mean, diplomatically, this is a big watershed moment. The fact that we have Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky in Armenia is a big, let's say, insult. I don't want to. I'm not saying what I really want to say to Putin. This is a country that was aligned with Russia until very recently and is now openly engaging with Russia's sort of battlefield enemy. That's a major point. And it also shows you how the pieces are shifting on the board as we speak.

B (13:56)

Yeah. So the theme of the day really is friends, allies and enemies. Right, Nick? And we'll see who shows up in Yerevan.

C (14:04)

You sewed it right up. That's exactly it.

B (14:09)

Before we go, folks, May 9th is Europe Day. And what we'd love to hear from listeners is what is a sound that you think really encapsulates Europe? I'd love to hear it. Record it on your WhatsApp. Well, that's Nick's. Can you beat Nick's Sound of Europe? Maybe it's a, I don't know, the rolling beach waves somewhere, I don't know, in Scotland, the, the sad clang of failure is what I'm hearing over there from Nick. Yeah, look, it might be an animal noise sound of a coffee machine. Actually, that's my noise of Europe. A delicious coffee brewing in the hopper, folks. Send it to us. WhatsApp link is in the show notes. That's it from us today, folks. Thanks for listening. I'll be back with you tomorrow.