Rebuilding Ukraine under the shadow of a presidential row

Summary

Brussels Playbook Podcast: Rebuilding Ukraine under the shadow of a presidential row

Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich (Chief EU Correspondent, POLITICO)
Guest: Sarah Wheaton (Policy Editor, POLITICO)

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Episode Overview

Today’s episode broadcasts from Gdańsk, where the Ukraine Recovery Conference is underway, against the backdrop of a diplomatic spat between Poland and Ukraine. The episode explores the pressing issues of Ukraine’s reconstruction, EU green finance loopholes, and a controversial move by the European Council to open its doors to social media influencers—so long as they aren’t critical of the EU.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ukraine Recovery Conference — The Atmosphere and Shadow of Political Tensions

[00:15 – 04:02]

• Zoya reports from Gdańsk, not Brussels, setting the tone: “The vibe here is definitely determined. Politicians, businesses and international financial institutions... are all gathered here today to work out how to rebuild Ukraine. And that's a project that's now estimated to cost more than half a trillion euro.” (Zoya, 00:21)

• Notable conference speakers include Ursula von der Leyen, Antonia Costa, Donald Tusk, and the Ukrainian PM.

• The elephant in the room: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is absent, due to a growing row with Polish President Karol Noski over the Ukrainian decision to name a military unit after the UPA, associated with wartime atrocities against Poles. This led to Poland rescinding its highest honor from Zelensky.

• Zoya observes: “It was the talk of the town... this kind of casts a shadow over this event.” (Zoya, 02:20)

Quotes:

• “One Ukrainian MP told me on condition of anonymity, ‘this is just stupid.’... They don't want to talk about this, but inevitably, this is the topic of discussion on the ground here.” (Zoya, 03:29)

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2. On-the-Ground: Poland’s View on Ukraine’s Recovery

[04:02 – 08:32]

Interview: Poland Finance & Economy Minister Andre Damansky

[04:58 – 08:32]

• Poland remains committed to Ukrainian victory and economic recovery. Trade is up 160% in six years.

• Major investments:

  • EBRD plans to sign €500 million in new investments at the conference.
  • Polish government prepared ~200 agreements for signature.

• Damansky emphasizes the need for:

  • Economic cooperation rooted in “long lasting stability.”
  • Fighting corruption, building institutions, and strengthening the judiciary.
  • Support structures: “Polish development institutions are already providing... credits, guarantees, some kind of advisory, everything that's needed to expand in Ukrainian markets.” (Damansky, 06:44)

• Security and defense: Poland spends 5% of GDP (c. €50bn/year) on defense, aiming to create a safe environment for investments and stronger ties with Ukraine’s defense industry, particularly in R&D and drone technology.

Memorable Quotes:

• “We strongly believe that long lasting stability must be rooted in economic interdependence, economic cooperation, even more than on some treaties.” (Damansky, 04:58)
• “There's still a lot of work to be done. Fighting with corruption for sure is number one.” (Damansky, 06:44)
• “It's really difficult to have GDP growth with no security.” (Damansky, 07:34)

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3. EU Green Finance Rules: Loopholes and Greenwashing Concerns

[08:32 – 11:35]

• New draft rules would allow investment funds labeled as “promoting the green transition” to include companies building new fossil fuel projects—if they also invest in green projects.

• Sarah’s take: “It wouldn't be the first contradiction along these lines.” (Sarah, 09:16)

• Zoya calls out potential greenwashing: “What an NGO might say is greenwashing…” (Zoya, 10:28)

• Opposition & negotiation: The Commission wanted to exclude fossil-fuel-building firms from green funds. Governments pushed for this loophole, but it's not final; tough negotiations remain.

Notable Quotes:

• “...a company that is building a new coal, oil or gas project could still nonetheless manage to qualify to be included in a fund that says it promotes the green transition.” (Sarah, 09:45)
• “Some of their money just has to be spent on green projects.” (Sarah, 09:51)

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4. Influencers at the European Council: Controlled Access and Censorship Worries

[11:44 – 14:10]

• The European Council is opening leader summits to social media influencers, with strict rules: no previous anti-EU content, not politicians, must have significant audiences, and limited commercial interests.

• Transparency or Propaganda?

  • “If you're trying to create pro-EU propaganda, that's a big...Sarah Wheaton’s on fire, both physically and metaphorically.” (Zoya, 12:14)
  • Sarah quips: “We need somebody who is the cheerleader for the EU and has amassed a big following...but they're not allowed to say anything that the EU doesn't like.” (Sarah, 13:03)
  • Zoya questions whether this approach allows the Council to avoid tough scrutiny from real journalists: “Like, this is kind of a way of getting mass messages out there without that filter of a journalist.” (Zoya, 13:14)

Memorable Dialogue:

• “...these are essentially, you know, comms or, you know, advertisers.” (Sarah, 14:10)

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5. Looking Ahead: Upcoming Podcast Topics

[14:39 – 15:24]

• Follow-up episodes will cover not just Ukraine’s physical recovery but also the “recovery of the people from the trauma… a war that has now gone on for longer than World War I.” (Sarah, 14:41)

• Scheduled guests: David Miliband (International Rescue Committee, ex-UK Foreign Secretary) and regular contributor Anne McElvoy on UK-EU relations post-Keir Starmer’s resignation.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Poland-Ukraine dispute:
  “One Ukrainian MP told me on condition of anonymity, 'this is just stupid.'” (Zoya, 03:29)

• On green finance loopholes:
  “A company that is building a new coal, oil or gas project could still nonetheless manage to qualify to be included in a fund that says it promotes the green transition.” (Sarah, 09:45)

• On the influencer policy:
  “So we need somebody who is the cheerleader for the EU and has amassed a big following...but they're not allowed to say anything that the EU doesn't like.” (Sarah, 13:03)
  “Let's get some pro-EU volunteers that a lot of people are really into, like, good luck.” (Sarah, 13:05)

• On the importance of prosperity for Ukraine:
  “It's important for Ukrainians to feel like on the other end of this war, there is prosperity.” (Zoya, 08:32)

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Detailed Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:15] Zoya shares the mood from the Ukraine Recovery Conference in Gdańsk
• [02:20] Zelensky’s absence and the dispute between Ukrainian and Polish leaders
• [03:29] On-the-ground reactions: unity and frustration about the spat
• [04:58] Interview with Minister Damansky: Poland’s economic and security priorities
• [06:44] Steps needed for investment in Ukraine: anti-corruption and legal reforms
• [07:34] Tying defense and economic development together
• [09:45] EU’s controversial green finance compromise explained
• [12:04] Influencers in the Council: rules and rationale
• [13:14] Scrutiny concerns—are influencers a substitute for journalists?
• [14:41] Upcoming episode: focusing on Ukrainian mental and social recovery

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, insightful, with playful asides between Zoya and Sarah.
• Balanced reporting with clear skepticism toward political spin or technical loopholes.
• Direct quotes and candid anonymous comment add depth and authenticity.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode gives listeners a nuanced, up-close look at the complicated and pressing issues swirling at the Ukraine Recovery Conference: the huge cost and stakes of rebuilding, intra-European political tensions, and the importance of transparency—whether in financial rules or EU communications. In classic Brussels Playbook style, it’s a sharp, sometimes wry analysis of the real decision-making dynamics shaping Europe today.

Transcript

[Team Poland Announcer]

Today's episode is presented by Team Poland. Team Poland is a one stop shop offered by six Polish development institutions to unlock global potential of Polish companies and their international partners.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

It's Thursday, June 25th and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is. Well, actually I'm not in Brussels. I'm in Gdansk at the annual Ukraine Recovery Conference. And the vibe here is definitely determined. Politicians, businesses and international financial institutions, they're all gathered here today to work out how to rebuild Ukraine. And that's a project that's now estimated to cost more than half a trillion euro. Also on the pod, EU governments want to allow investors to include fossil fuel projects in investment funds claiming to promote the green transition. And the European Council is opening its doors to influencers as long as they're not Eurosceptics. I'm Zoya Shaptolovic and with me today is Sarah Wheaton, one of our policy editors. Hey Sarah.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Hey Zoya.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

How's life over in Brussels? I gotta tell you, I'm in GDask and I heard that it is so hot overnight in Brussels. I'm just glad that it's just sunny and beautiful and cool here.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Yeah, well with that attitude you should just stay there, Zoya, because we're all going to be so hot and bothered that you might want to just avoid it.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Well, don't mind if I do. Frankly, it is not a shabby place to be. Sarah, I told you, I'm in Gdansk. It's the Ukraine Recovery Conference. That's a two day affair that kicks off today. And actually this morning we're going to see Ursula von der Leyen, the European Commission President, Antonia Kosta, the Council President, Donald Tusk, the Polish Prime Minister and the Ukrainian Prime Minister speaking on stage this morning from 10 o' clock in the morning. And it's a really important conference in any case every year, but this year in particular it's being hosted by Poland, which is one of Ukraine's biggest backers, if not the biggest backer of Ukraine in the war.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Wait, Zoya, I'm, I'm a little confused though because you just listed like this kind of list of bold faced names, but I didn't hear of Volodymyr Zelensky. Where, where is the Ukrainian President?

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Yeah, that's right, Volodymyr Zelensky, who has come in the past and who was expected to come this year. He's not coming because of this spat between the Polish President Carol Noski and Zelensky is over the fact that Zelensky has approved the naming of a Ukrainian military unit after the upa, which is the group that during the Second World War, fought against the Soviets and the Nazis, but also during that period was responsible for the killing of a lot of Polish people. And after Volodymyr Zelensky approved the naming of this military unit, now after him, the Polish president, Carol Noski, has taken away Poland's highest order, the Order of the White Eagle, from Zelensky. So this spat has been brewing over the past few weeks and was hanging over this conference here today. And even, you know, yesterday I was at various receptions and parties here, and it was the talk of the town. People are talking about the fact that this is happening and that this kind of casts a shadow over this event.

[Sarah Wheaton]

We as, I mean, is this just kind of one of these things that, you know, makes. Makes headlines in. In tabloids or in Politico, or is this becoming a distraction on the ground?

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

It's definitely something people are talking about. You know, yesterday, Sarah arrived a bit early. I've been speaking with Ukrainian and Polish MPs folks who are heavily involved in this area. One Ukrainian MP told me on condition of anonymity, this is just stupid. And they all are sort of on the same page. Poland supports Ukraine. It's really important that Ukraine wins the war. They don't want to talk about this, but inevitably, this is the topic of discussion on the ground here. That's what I'm hearing. I mean, I was in a cafe yesterday and just that's what everyone was talking about, Sarah.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Well, so there are, though, as I understand, efforts to talk about the actual recovery effort. And, you know, as part of that, you had a chance to sit down yesterday with Poland's finance and Economy Minister, Andre Damansky. What did he tell you?

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

He was telling me some super interesting things like as far as the polls are concerned, all systems go. It's all about making sure Ukraine wins this, but is also about making sure that investment happens and economic prosperity happens on the other side of this war. Let's hear some of what he had to say yesterday.

[Interviewer]

You were in Kyiv recently for a major Polish economic mission. You were there to talk about investment, and just a couple of days after you left, there was a major attack by the Russians on Kyiv. Can you take us to that visit? What did you see and how is it possible to talk about reconstruction and recovery given the attacks are ongoing?

[Andre Damansky]

Yes, a couple of weeks ago, we visited Kyiv, and it was a very fruitful visit as we met with not only Ukrainian administration, but also With Ukrainian business. We tried to strengthen our business relations with Ukraine as we strongly believe that long lasting stability must be rooted in economic interdependence, economic cooperation, even more than on some treaties. We are neighbors. The trade between our countries is going up 160% just in the last six years. So this cooperation is really improving and I do hope that it will be like that in coming years. We are working hard to deliver.

[Interviewer]

Well, you say that and I've got some stats here for our audience. The Ukrainian recovery is expected to cost around about $600 billion. And the European bank for Reconstruction and Development, which is one of the largest investors in Ukraine, said that they're going to sign more than 500 million euros in New investments at this conference alone. The Polish government has said roughly 200 agreements have been prepared for signature here. Can you give us some insight into what sorts of agreements we're likely to see? What's the most exciting thing for you?

[Andre Damansky]

I will not tell you right now what those agreements will be. You need to wait a couple hours more. But with no doubt those agreements will help strengthening the position of all parties in this process of Ukraine reconstruction.

[Interviewer]

Companies are being asked to invest in Ukraine at a time when those attacks are ongoing. So what needs to be in place in Ukraine you talked about the conditions need to be right, openness needs to exist. I mean, what are we talking about here? Insurance, state guarantees, Better air defense?

[Andre Damansky]

Well, I'm responsible for Polish economy and I'm very proud that Polish development institutions are already providing for Polish companies. Credits, guarantees, some kind of advisory, everything that's needed to expand in Ukrainian markets. Then of course to secure long lasting GDP growth of Ukraine. There's still a lot of work to be done. Fighting with corruption for sure is number one. Building strong market institution, development of strong judicial system.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned the defence dimension. This is the first URC where defence has been a key pillar of the conference. That was an innovation that Poland brought to the table. Can you explain a little bit about the thinking that went into that concept? Why are you doing this this way?

[Andre Damansky]

Right now there's no doubt security and development, economical development are really interlinked. It's really difficult to have GDP growth with no security. This is why Poland is spending 5% of our GDP, close to 50 billion euro a year to make Polish army stronger and create a safe place for foreign investments. And I believe this is exactly what Ukraine needs to do. Of course Ukraine is in a different situation. Fighting with this brutal Russian aggression of Poland is fully supporting our Ukrainian partners. But we would like to have more cooperation, for example, in defence industry. Ukraine has some advantages, lots of R and D, for example, in the drone sector. And we'd like to have Polish companies to have better cooperation with our Ukrainian partners in this field.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

So it's really great to hear from Minister Demanski on something that's really kind of at the coal face here in Gdansk where they're talking about the money side of things. And that's really important for Ukraine as well. It's important for Ukrainians to feel like on the other end of this war, there is prosperity. Hey, Sarah, we know that burning fossil fuels is problematic for the planet, right?

[Sarah Wheaton]

I think that there's a scientific consensus on that point.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Would you be surprised to hear that if a company that's developing new oil and gas projects, if it also actually does green projects, it might qualify as being part of the green transition?

[Sarah Wheaton]

I mean, it's a bit counterintuitive, but after many years of covering the eu, it wouldn't be the first contradiction along these lines.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Well, we've got a story from our sustainability reporter, Marianne Grow, on green finance rules. And it's, look, it's quite technical, but I really do encourage our listeners to read it because this is like what the EU is sometimes. That's the frustration at the eu. You know, you've got these rules, you've got regulations and you have loopholes. And this is a classic loophole story, Sarah.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Yeah, I mean, so on Wednesday, EU ambassadors met in Brussels and they approved a deal on how to update green financing rules. And so that's like, look, if you're, if you're a person who's saying, I want to invest my money, but make sure it's only in green or sustainable products. And so they, you know, the EU is kind of setting these definitions, but in the deal, EU government said that a company that is building a new coal, oil or gas project could still nonetheless manage to qualify to be included in a fund that says it promotes the green transition. And, you know, the, the, the sort of what some are calling a loophole there that you refer to is that some of their money just has to be spent on green projects.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

I mean, this sounds a bit like what an NGO might say is greenwashing. I mean, what do the CO legislators, as we call them accounts of the Commission and the Parliament say about that? I mean, what is the justification there?

[Sarah Wheaton]

Yeah, the Commission's idea there was to exclude companies completely from green transition funds if they're building new fossil fuel projects, because that doesn't align with the bloc's environmental goals. But in the end, these companies are like, look, we're, we're energy companies, so we're investing in lots of different types of energy. And so some of that energy might be new green energy. But yeah, you know what, at the same time, there's still demand for new energy or in some cases, you know, country might be switching from coal to gas. So, yeah, we need to, we need to keep investing in new gas projects as well.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Well, it's not yet a done deal as I understand it. This is part of the discussions that you have between the Council, the commission and the parliament. And this what the governments want, EU governments want, not necessarily what the commission and the Parliament wants. So they've still got some tough negotiations ahead before the new rules come into force.

[Sarah Wheaton]

So we'll have to see what happens.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Sarah, this is fun slash scary for you and me both. Earlier this year, our colleague Mari Echols reported that the European Council was wants to invite social media influencers to cover the EU leaders summits in Brussels. This is potentially taking me and you out of a job. But it turns out there's a caveat.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Yeah, there's a caveat. I mean, and I guess it sort of makes sense from a perspective. If you're trying to create pro EU propaganda, that's a big Sarah Wheaton's on

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

fire, both physically and metaphorically.

[Sarah Wheaton]

I mean, look, I'm going to own that. I know that's a strong word, but we've gotten our hands on the guidance sent by the council of the EU to member countries. And they're like, yeah, you can choose the people who get these special access to come to Brussels and see the summits play out. But there are rules that say things like, the content creator cannot have published anything that goes against E values. They can't be a politician or seeking political office. Fair enough. They also say that the audience size must be significant in relation to the country's population and that they can't have a significant or longstanding commercial collaboration. The rationale is that this makes transparency to how they're getting paid. But like, I'm like, okay, so we need somebody who is the cheerleader for the EU and has amassed a big following of people, but they're not allowed

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

to say anything that the EU doesn't like.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Right. And they also can't be making, you know, any income off of this. So just pro EU volunteers that a lot of people are really into, like, good luck.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

But Sarah, you know, this makes me think, like, will the Council get a little bit happy, a little bit comfortable with this sort of arrangement where they can kind of control the narrative and they don't have the same level of criticism that might come because you and I have to ask pretty uncomfortable questions sometimes. Like we have to kind of put our hand up and say, hey, like, this doesn't feel like a great idea. This feels kind of cynical, or this feels contradictory. Like this is kind of a way of getting mass messages out there without that filter of a journalist who's able to look at something and go, actually, this doesn't make any sense because it's not like these people are experts in EU affairs.

[Sarah Wheaton]

Yeah, I mean, this is the trade off, you know, the idea is that, that we journalists are not sufficiently, you know, educating and making people enthusiastic. Enthusiastic about the eu. So they're going to find some people who do that professionally. And yeah, maybe propaganda is a strong word, but these are essentially, you know, comms or, you know, advertisers.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Well, I guess from that perspective, everyone's allowed to have some advertising folks out there. What do you think about this? Do you think it's a good idea to have these influences? You know, maybe you think that they're going to be spreading the gospel about the eu? Is it a bad idea? Let us know, please do send us a voice note or a text message. The link is in the show Notes. All right, Sarah, before we go, what have we got coming up on the weekend or tomorrow?

[Sarah Wheaton]

We are going to also be continuing this discussion about Ukraine's recovery. Not just its, you know, the physical infrastructure recovery, but also the recovery of the people from the trauma that they have been suffering from, you know, a war that has now gone on for longer than World War I. And so we'll have David Miliband. He's now the head. Head of the International Rescue Committee, a humanitarian aid organization. And he's a former former UK Foreign Secretary. So we'll get him to weigh in a little tiny bit on what's going on there. And then we'll hear a lot more about the UK and its reset or not with the EU as Prime Minister Keir Starmer resigns. And that conversation will be with our frequent contributor, Anne McAvoy.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Well, fantastic. I'm looking forward to listening to that one, Sarah. Well, folks, I am still in GDASK for the rest of the week, so you'll be hearing plenty more about that from me elsewhere. And please do like us. Subscribe. Send us a rating. You know, Sarah, we are so close to 1000. We've got like 800 something on Spotify. I would love it if we could crack the the big four digits soon. So please do send us a rating.

[Sarah Wheaton]

We might almost have enough listeners to qualify as a Special Interest Influencer by the Council standards.

[Zoya Shaptolovic]

Well, one can only dream.

[Team Poland Announcer]

A message from Team Poland As a partner of the Ukraine Recovery Conference 2026 in Gdask, we thank all strategic thinkers for inspiring economic dialogue. Team Poland brings together six development institutions connecting companies and investors to unlock ideas and capital and drive sustainable growth across Europe. Find us at www.teampoland euro.