
The fight over the EU’s next seven-year budget is heating up.
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Zoya Sheftilovich
NA Good morning, it's Tuesday, June 16th, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is entrenched as governments dig in over where the EU's next 1.8 trillion euro budget should go and how much of it should be cut. Also on the pod, the US's intimate diplomatic dinners in Brussels are disappearing and some ambassadors are really upset about it. Plus, Viktor Orban is returning to Brussels just as his favorite think tank comes under fire. I'm Zoya Sheftilovich and with me today is our senior EU politics editor, Ian Wishart. Hey, Ian.
Ian Wishart
Good morning, Zoya.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Oh, where's that energy coming from?
Ian Wishart
I've no idea. It won't last very long.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Well, actually it should last a while because I've got a special surprise for you later on.
Ian Wishart
I know what the surprise is, Zoya.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Could you not pretend?
Ian Wishart
Sorry.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Thank you.
Ian Wishart
What is the surprise, Zoya?
Zoya Sheftilovich
I'm not going to tell you till the end of the podcast. Bear with us, listener Ian. Let's start in Luxembourg today where EU affairs ministers from around the block are gathering and they are going to be getting their first chance to debate the EU's next long term budget. That's the MFF, the Multi Annual Financial Framework.
Ian Wishart
These sorts of negotiations are notorious in the eu, aren't they? And this time around it's no different. It's an absolute fight already. It's getting dirty already.
Zoya Sheftilovich
It really is. And we have two camps that have emerged pretty strong out of the block box. So it was last week that the Cyprus presidency of the Council of the EU presented their so called nego box. It's the negotiating box where they kind of lay out how much money is going to be spent on various things, all of their ideas and things that they're supposed to have gathered from countries and they lay it out and say, look, this is what we want to Do.
Ian Wishart
Yeah. So we just backtrack slightly because we're talking about the seven year budget, the multiannual financial framework, which is due to kick in 2028, but they're hoping to get agreed by the end of this year, aren't they, the member states?
Zoya Sheftilovich
They are. And the reason for that is because, look, there are several reasons, but one of them is the French election in April 2027. That's going to grind things to a halt as campaigning begins for that. And the idea is if they don't get it agreed this year and settled this year, it's not going to be then able to be done until like maybe October next year after a bunch of different elections, particularly Branch, but then after the summer break as well. And there's also, there's all sorts of elections, Italian election as well, so that I could be easy.
Ian Wishart
I mean, as you said, there are two very. There are two camps here which are very clearly divided. It's the usual suspects that, you know, it's the. The wealthy countries mainly from the north of Europe versus the countries mainly from the south of Europe.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yes. And ironically, or perhaps not ironically, but actually very predictably, it's divided between the countries that pay more money into the budget than they get out. So they are formally called the frugals now. They've rebranded, they're calling themselves Friends of Modernization and they want the budget to
Ian Wishart
be smaller, they want to spend less money to Brussels.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah. And it' and it's not only that, it's not just that they want the budget smaller, but they want the budget priorities to be in things like competitiveness rather than in things like spending money
Ian Wishart
on agriculture, the traditional EU spending.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Exactly. And then you've got these Friends of Cohesion group folks who are the countries that tend to take more money out of the budget than they put in.
Ian Wishart
And let's just say to our listeners who might not be EU specialists, what cohesion means in EU lingo. Cohesion spending is basically expenditure on the regions around Europe, particularly the poorer regions. Another thing that's really underpinned the EU for, for since day one, really totally.
Zoya Sheftilovich
It's things like roads and hospitals and public transportation systems in poorer parts.
Ian Wishart
All those big signs you see when you're driving around Europe saying, this road was paid for by the European Union.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Exactly, exactly. And so this fight is going to get pretty significant. It's already significant because I've had phone calls from various diplomats from different.
Ian Wishart
Getting phoned up all the time. Don't you, about this?
Zoya Sheftilovich
Oh my God.
Ian Wishart
Morning, noon. And night, weekends, everything.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Literally 10:00pm on a Sunday, I was
Ian Wishart
getting calls on a big 18 months to go. Can you imagine?
Zoya Sheftilovich
I know. But yeah, because the ambassadors, the EU's ambassadors were meeting Sunday evening in their CO repair. An unusual sun. Well, it's not that unusual these days. But in a Sunday co repair session, that's the ambassador's meeting and they got to discuss these nego box numbers. Everyone is furious. So the, particularly the frugal countries, the friends of competitiveness, they're mad. They want less money. They say this budget is too large, the commission wants too much money and it needs to be cut because it's going to be very difficult for them to tell their voters at home, hey, we're cutting all sorts of programs for you nationally. But the EU is getting way, way more money. But the flip side is you've got all of these other countries that are like, hey, we need money for our farmers, we need money for our regions. What are you doing?
Ian Wishart
Now? Cyprus, which currently, at least until the end of the month, is at the helm of the presidency of the council of the EU, they put out this proposal which sees a 2% reduction on the commissions original proposal for the budget.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah. And they're cutting competitiveness spending. And that's been very controversial. The 2% is controversial for not being big enough for the frugal countries. I mean, the Netherlands were particularly upset about it. They called it the no go box, not the nego box.
Ian Wishart
No go, no go.
Zoya Sheftilovich
So that is really the backdrop of this conversation that ministers are going to have today. So this is their first opportunity at that ministerial level.
Ian Wishart
And then leaders go on at the end of the week, it's a European Council, the summit here in Brussels. They'll continue the conversation.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah. And that'll be the first chance for EU leaders to get involved.
Ian Wishart
Certainly won't be the last, will it?
Zoya Sheftilovich
No, absolutely not. But the clock is running out. And so there is something that will be agreed today, Ian, as we're understanding it from the reporting. So it's the rules and structure of three key parts of the budget are going to be agreed by these European affairs ministers. That's the national and Regional Partnership Plans, the European Competitiveness Fund and the Global Europe Fund. And again, this is only a partial agreement. It's not on how much will be spent or anything like that. It's just the art.
Ian Wishart
And you get the sense that it's all up for grabs and always will be as things get negotiated and horse traded. You know, nothing, nothing's done until it's all done.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Exactly.
Ian Wishart
There's one other interesting thing which I think they're going to talk about today and certainly probably talk about on Friday. The leaders is this link between EU payments and the rule of law. And we've seen, particularly after Orban and Hungary, how crucial it is these days for the European Commission to be able to withhold funding for countries who don't live up to their rule of law.
Zoya Sheftilovich
But so what the national governments actually want is they want that power to be with them. So not just the Commission having the power and being able to disperse or not disperse, but they want to be involved in the decision making. And that part is what's going to get agreed, we think in, in this meeting potentially today, potentially on Friday. So that's a big one.
Ian Wishart
Good. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about this a lot over the next few months.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Can't wait. In our next story is one that I have been reporting out for several months.
Ian Wishart
You have mentioned it once or twice. So yes.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Oh, listener, if only you had heard the many times I had raised this story trying to speak to enough diplomats to get it over the line. But here we are. It's over.
Ian Wishart
It's over the line.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yes, it's over the line. So what this is about is God for that. Now I need to find something else to write about. Listeners write in but listen for, for years there have been these diplomatic gatherings and they have been referred to by American diplomats as like minded dinners.
Ian Wishart
So these were hosted by the American ambassador in Brussels, the ambassador to the eu and he would invite what, a dozen or so Macs, other ambassadors, other diplomats, just to chat about stuff.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah. And EU officials would sometimes come. So high ranking, very high ranking people, high up in the commission president's cabinet. So Bjorn Seibert being one of the people who I know has been invited to these things, they would come together roughly once a month. They would have a very opulent dinner. I hear from a former U.S. diplomat that there would be sort of a one upmanship between the ambassadors as to who had the best chef. They would have, you know, really, really lovely steak, beautiful fish. They'd have American wine.
Ian Wishart
Wow. And didn't think you could get American wine.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Tell that to the California Napa Valley, my friend. And yeah, they would discuss all sorts of things. They would, you know, it was soft power. It was the Americans trying to feel out what various countries thought about certain things. And the idea was the like minded thing is the important element of it. It would be on a theme, on a topic. Let's say they were talking about security. They would invite a few key ambassadors from countries where they were security partners and then maybe someone they wanted to convince of someone.
Ian Wishart
I feel there's a but coming.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Well, but is the but is that several diplomats, you know, just over the course of my conversations over the past few months have sort of mentioned these dinners and said, oh, it's such a shame they don't happen anymore because ever since Andrew Pazda has come in, he's the new US ambassador to the eu, he's not really throwing those parties anymore. And in part it's because the US's approach to Europe has changed. It's much less, let's, you know, confrontational.
Ian Wishart
Would that be too much, too far to say?
Zoya Sheftilovich
I don't think you could say it was too much. I think it absolutely has been confrontational. And it's not that Puzzler isn't holding parties or events or whatever. He is still doing that. And certainly the US still mission was very firm in response to my request for comment and said it would be categorically false to say that he isn't. I don't argue with that. It's just that the type of parties have changed. It's not these small affairs with a few folk bringing them together, trying to come up with, you know, a solution to a problem together, trying to pre, pre examine some of the tough things that they might need to talk about. It's really more about like we're going to hold a quad lunch, we're going to hold a five eyes lunch.
Ian Wishart
For people who don't know Brussels, it's worth saying that these sorts of occasions are actually what Brussels runs on. You know, these little intimate gatherings and you sometimes don't even realize that these people at senior levels are actually friends with each other or even know each other, but they do. And you get, you know, very strange gatherings of, you know, ambassadors and senior commission officials and people from the parliament maybe and people from the Council and they get together and they talk and they chat and it's really how Brussels operates, isn't it?
Zoya Sheftilovich
It is.
Ian Wishart
And journalists sometimes too totally.
Zoya Sheftilovich
On occasion we're invited as well. But the idea of these things is when you're away from, you know, ambassadors, they're always, they've got lots of staff, they've got note takers, they've got requirements as to things that they need to report back to their capital.
Ian Wishart
And it's not policy making. No, is it? It's, it's that it's intelligent sharing. It's well I've heard this. Have you heard that? And where do you think the commission is going to push this and that kind of thing?
Zoya Sheftilovich
And my red lines are this and etc. And this is the thing. So it was an opportunity for them to be without all of the entourages, just, you know, 6, 8, 10.
Ian Wishart
So why did the. The non American ambassadors say to you that they thought it was a shame that these things didn't carry on?
Zoya Sheftilovich
They were saying that it was an opportunity to figure out, firstly, it was an opportunity to figure out where the US stood on things, where individual countries stood on things. But also they were saying that the Americans had this convening power because it's the Americans. So people would come and then they would feel an obligation. They would hold their own and invite people back. It would be sort of this network that would occur. And what they were saying is, like even just non EU countries would get INV to these things. And it was their opportunity to figure out where EU countries stood on certain matters. And I spoke with one particular diplomat who said, look, I used to get calls from my capital and they would say, hey, where does such and such country stand on this particular issue? And I would sometimes be able to tell them because I'd just been to one of these dinners and I knew. And now I've got kind of an information vacuum because the EU ambassadors meet with each other. They know what all of their various folks think, but we don't necessarily get clued in on that. And they said they now read Politico to get that information.
Ian Wishart
Which ambassador do you think is the best chef?
Zoya Sheftilovich
Well, I was at the UK ambassador's residence, the outgoing UK ambassador's residence, last week, and it was pretty tasty. But the best part was that I got to take a few bags of crisps home. Real crisps.
Ian Wishart
Really?
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah. They gave us walkers. No, real crisps. That's the name of the brand. Oh, my. I've just done an ad, haven't I? Sorry, listeners, but they were bloody delicious.
Ian Wishart
I hope you're going to register that in the Transparency Register.
Zoya Sheftilovich
I probably should, shouldn't I? Hey, Ian, did you know that Viktor Orban is coming back to Brussels this week?
Ian Wishart
He is on Wednesday ahead of the European Council. But he's not coming to the European Council, of course.
Zoya Sheftilovich
No, he's going to a meeting of his Patriots for Europe group ahead of the Yuko. So that's something that perhaps people don't know. So before these European Council summits, when all of the EU leaders come to Brussels, there are meetings of the individual groups and opposition politicians come and Orban is now in the opposition.
Ian Wishart
But we wanted to talk about this think tank, the mcc, which is part of Orban's way of influencing the eu.
Zoya Sheftilovich
It is, and it's this quite very well funded think tank based in Brussels and it's actually in a bit of hot water at the moment. The Transparency Register has actually suspended the mcc, saying that they haven't been doing their financial disclosures properly, which, by the way, the MCC denies and says that they will appeal. But in any case, it means that they can still operate. They can publish reports, have events, but they don't get to meet with some new officials.
Ian Wishart
Yeah, they're not able to lobby particularly.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah, yeah. And it's part of like this broader thing as well that's happening in Hungary where the new government is actually threatening to kind of disband the MCC and claw back the money that it's been getting from Fadesh for the country.
Ian Wishart
Dash being Orban's party.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah, exactly. So it's in a bit of hot water. We'll see what happens with that. It's a developing story. They deny all wrongdoing. So, yeah, look, tough times, lean times for Viktor Orban. Ian, it's time for our surprise.
Ian Wishart
What are you going to tell me about the 100th episode of the podcast?
Zoya Sheftilovich
Can't believe you just gazumped me like that. Wow. Yeah, I am, actually. It's our 100th episode of the podcast of the podcast, and we're going to be filming it live in front of a studio audience.
Ian Wishart
It feels like there's been more, doesn't it? Feels like we've had about a thousand.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Well, not to me it doesn't.
Ian Wishart
Bags under my eyes.
Zoya Sheftilovich
The bags say a different story. Anyway, look, our lovely listeners, if they want to come and see the magic, the sausage being made.
Ian Wishart
Yeah, we're going to record our 100th episode in front of a live audience.
Zoya Sheftilovich
30th of June. You can register for your chance to be in the audience. We're probably going to get more people registering than we have space for, so heads up. May not be able to get everyone in, but do register. Link is in the show notes.
Ian Wishart
It's going to be a lot of fun, isn't it?
Zoya Sheftilovich
It'll be super fun. They'll be able to see what you really like, dear. That's how we lose all our listeners. All right, folks, that's about it from US today. Leave us a review. Rate us, Tell us what you think
Ian Wishart
and we'll be back tomorrow.
Zoya Sheftilovich
Yeah, It's mushrooms with me, Matty Mathison. You know what's better than thinking about dinner too hard? Not stop that and just choose mushrooms. Five minutes. Done. Dinner's that easy and you feel like a genius. It's not magic, it's mushrooms. Stop stressing@mushroomcouncil.com.
This episode dives into three big stories shaping the week in Brussels:
[00:29–07:11]
Setting the Scene:
Political Dynamics:
What’s at Stake:
Timeline Pressure:
Partial Progress Expected:
[07:11–12:06]
Background:
Purpose of These Dinners:
Why Did They Stop?
The Fallout:
[12:33–13:47]
Context:
Controversy:
Humorous moments:
This episode is a concise yet revealing tour through Brussels’ political “mood” as budget wrangling intensifies, diplomatic rituals fade, and the Orban era faces new scrutiny. Zoya and Ian’s signature blend of dry humor, insider anecdotes, and clear context makes this a brisk must-listen for anyone following EU politics — or just fascinated by the mechanics of supranational negotiation and soft power.
Next up: The podcast’s 100th episode will be taped live—listeners are invited to register for a seat.
[Episode closes with banter and invitation for feedback.]