Brussels Playbook Podcast

Episode Title: The EU’s envoy to Ukraine on war, resilience — and Nordic walking
Release Date: February 20, 2026
Host: Sarah Wheaton (POLITICO Chief EU Correspondent)
Featured Guests:

• Katerina Maternova, EU Ambassador to Ukraine
• POLITICO’s Defense Editor, Jan Janczynski

Episode Overview

This episode provides an in-depth conversation with Katerina Maternova, the EU's ambassador to Ukraine, focusing on life in Kyiv amid ongoing war, the challenges brought by Russia’s targeting of Ukrainian energy infrastructure during winter, and the remarkable resilience of the Ukrainian people. The episode also spotlights the broader European debate over security, specifically questioning the viability of America's nuclear umbrella for Europe in the face of US unpredictability. The latter half of the episode explores Europe’s potential nuclear futures with defense editor Jan Janczynski.

Life Under Siege: Kyiv in Winter

[00:00–08:28]

Daily Survival Amid War

• Host Sarah Wheaton sets the scene: Air raid sirens are the new normal in Kyiv; residents are unfazed but constantly vigilant.
• Freezing temperatures and attacks on energy infrastructure have led to widespread blackouts, no heating, and families clustering in single rooms or setting tents indoors to keep warm.
• Despite conditions, daily life and diplomatic work persist—political conversations, including EU membership for Ukraine, continue.

Notable Quote:
"She [Ambassador Maternova] seemed more worried about the audio quality than anything else. That tells you something about how people in Ukraine now live through this war." — Sarah Wheaton [00:37]

Ambassador Maternova’s Personal Perspective

• Kyiv has experienced sustained, bitter cold; snow piles up, and the city faces repeated attacks (three major ones in both January and February).

• Diplomats, both expatriate and Ukrainian, are affected—some without heat or electricity for weeks after attacks.

  • "For me personally, I live in a hotel, international hotel, so it’s very much bearable. But that’s not the case for many of my colleagues..." — Katerina Maternova [03:17]

• Kyiv is now a frontline city in a new sense, not simply due to shelling but because basic utilities have become wartime targets.

Maintaining Diplomatic Work

• Air raid interruptions affect sleep, leading to cumulative exhaustion and PTSD symptoms for many (including the ambassador).

  • "The interrupted sleep is something that has a cumulative effect... We all have, or many of us have trouble sleeping. And yet you need to continue..." — Maternova [04:30]

• Despite the hardship, the resilience of Ukrainians is admired by diplomats in Kyiv.

  • "They keep going and keep the resilient, even if, as a friend of mine told me the other day is through tears." — Maternova [04:55]

Communicating Crisis

• Ambassador Maternova is active on social media; her posts during attacks serve to both show solidarity and inform the global audience.

• The ongoing humanitarian calamity is often underreported in international media:

  • Over 1,000 heating tents (some run by the Red Cross) serve as vital lifelines for warmth, power, and food.
  • "Because... the humanitarian calamity that has been unfolding here now for six weeks somehow doesn’t make it to the media or very rarely." — Maternova [05:55]

• Around 600,000 Kyiv residents have reportedly left the city for the winter due to the energy crisis.

• "It’s really, let’s make it very clear, this has been really a war crime to hit and freeze people in their own homes, ordinary civilians who have nothing to do with the military." — Maternova [07:40]

Europe’s Response: Hope and Frustration

[08:28–13:19]

Delegations and Perceptions

• A European Parliament delegation, led by Marie Agnes Jacques Zimmerman, visited Kyiv and experienced the crisis firsthand, helping bridge the information gap to the rest of Europe.

Munich Security Conference — Shifts in Tone

• The event is seen as a "turning point" with Europe showing more determination to take control of its own security.

  • "Europe is very much showing the signs of determination to play a much, much bigger role in its own security." — Maternova [09:52]

• Ukrainians have been telling Europe, "We think you are a lot stronger than you think you are." (a recurrent local slogan)

Zelensky’s Frustration & EU Support

• Recent public remarks by President Zelensky reflect exhaustion and frustration with Europe's delays in concrete support (such as frozen Russian assets).
• Maternova emphasizes viewing Zelensky’s comments in sequence, not as isolated snapshots, and points to swift EU provision of a 90 billion euro loan as a sign of serious support.
  • "One can always find ways to say could have, should have faster this, that. But I think the track record of delivery by the EU and its member states is quite impressive." — Maternova [12:52]

The Question of Peace Talks

[13:19–15:14]

• There is "mild skepticism" in Kyiv around ongoing peace initiatives, largely due to a lack of Russian willingness for real negotiations.
  • "Nobody sees any sign that Putin wants to see an end to this war." — Maternova [13:45]
• Ambassador signals strong desire to be proved wrong, expressing longing for any true breakthrough toward peace.
• The EU, Maternova asserts, will have a role at the eventual peace table; for now, it focuses on diplomatic, economic, and military support.

Ukraine’s EU Membership: Paths and Hurdles

[15:14–21:48]

Practicalities and Perceptions of Enlargement

• Ukraine cites 2027 as a potential accession horizon; EU leaders avoid an official date.

• Maternova to Ukrainians: EU integration is non-negotiable for Ukraine’s security and future; more important than fixed dates is the progress of reforms and political will on both sides.

  • "Ukrainian integration into the west and into the EU is part of their future security. There is no question about that." — Maternova [15:36]

• Discusses EU’s creative thinking: "variable geometry," "reverse enlargement," and institutional workarounds to get Ukraine inside the EU tent quickly, if not with immediate full membership.

  • "The analogy I like to use is that... we can have Ukraine in the house at the beginning and not all the rooms in the house being available immediately at the outset." — Maternova [17:20]

• Confidence that most Ukrainians, if properly informed, would support partial integration as a stepping stone.

• Robust progress on corruption and rule of law, even during wartime, driven by the desire to "break with the oligarchic past."

  • "They have built a whole chain of anti-corruption agencies... based on their independence. And as you could see, in July of last year, people, young people, came out to the streets to support and demonstrate for the independence of the institutions." — Maternova [20:31]

Resilience and Coping Mechanisms

[21:48–23:19]

• Despite everything, Maternova maintains morale through personal rituals—cheerful clothes, dinners with friends, and exercise, notably "Nordic walking."

  • "Wearing cheerful clothes is one way of fighting the situation... I picked up Nordic walking and go to the botanical garden..." — Maternova [22:08]

• As the conversation ends, a siren interrupts; Maternova calmly explains the standard procedure.

  • "That’s the air alert. So we have our daily dose of sirens here nightly as well..." — Maternova [22:08]

Europe’s Nuclear Dilemma: A New Security Era

[25:26–34:34]
(Segment with Defense Editor Jan Janczynski begins [25:26])

Setting the Stage: Europe’s Nuclear Umbrella

• Historically, NATO’s American nuclear umbrella has underpinned European security; US and Russia each have thousands of warheads.

• The guarantee has been to deter Russian/Soviet attack by threat of catastrophic retaliation.

• France and UK have independent nuclear arsenals (UK: 225, France: 290 warheads).

• US deploys bombs in allied countries, but control remains American; France rejects nuclear sharing.

The Trump Factor and Nuclear Anxiety

• Recent US unpredictability (especially under Trump and the looming US election) creates doubts about US willingness to defend Europe—a crisis of confidence in the deterrence system.
  • "What Trump is doing by adding doubt into this whole equation is that it sort of destroys the basis of deterrence." — Jan Janczynski [27:16]

Munich Security Conference: Europe's Nuclear Future

• European leaders (Macron, Scholz) are openly debating Europe’s post-American nuclear options.

• France is engaging Germany and Sweden on the scope and purpose of its nuclear deterrent.

  • Macron expected to clarify French nuclear posture in an upcoming speech.

• France unclear about extending its nuclear protection beyond national interests; the alliance implications remain ambiguous.

The Money and Politics of European Nukes

• Expanding French arsenal or developing new bombs is enormously expensive—20% of Paris’s defense budget goes to nuclear forces.
• Germans wary of funding expansion of French arsenal without shared control, which Paris refuses.
• Other states (like Poland) timidly broach the possibility of developing indigenous weapons, though that remains unlikely for now.

NATO’s Official Position

• NATO and American leadership stress the current umbrella is in place and sufficient; pushback against talk of alternate European nuclear architectures.

  • "Rutte mentioned 10% of GDP, double what the spending goal is now if they were to build up their own nuclear arsenal outside of the United [States]." — Janczynski [32:40]

• Technical incompatibility: European countries cannot easily share or adapt each other's nuclear weapons, making any rapid shift impossible.

Memorable Moment

• "Well, I thought as a, as a late stage millennial that I'd avoid all these nuclear discussions of my boomer parents, but apparently not." — Sarah Wheaton [34:25]
• "Duck and cover under the desk." — Jan Janczynski [34:34]

Key Takeaways

• Ukrainian resilience is matched by acute material hardship, yet life and work—diplomatic and otherwise—continue in Kyiv, even as attacks escalate.
• EU support for Ukraine remains resolute, though frustration from Kyiv is palpable; the debate over how fast and how creatively Ukraine can be integrated into the EU is ongoing.
• Europe faces tough soul-searching over security, with growing doubts about America’s nuclear umbrella accelerating debate over homegrown solutions—none of which offer easy, quick, or consensual fixes.
• Above all, the episode powerfully humanizes the daily costs and quiet stoicism of those living and working through war.

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–08:28] Life under war in Kyiv: Daily realities, diplomatic resilience
• [08:28–13:19] Europe’s response, international perception, and Zelensky’s frustrations
• [13:19–15:14] Peace talks: Skepticism and the EU’s role
• [15:14–21:48] Ukraine’s EU accession: Political reality and reform
• [21:48–23:19] Coping, morale, and a siren interruption
• [25:26–34:38] Europe’s nuclear dilemma: Security, deterrence, and alternatives

Notable Quotes

• "These are people and suffer through it, but we are all here… and continue supporting this heroic country through the war." — Katerina Maternova [04:50]
• "The mayor of Kyiv, Mr. Klitschko, has asked residents to temporarily leave for their friends and families and their dachas… an estimate that around 600,000 people left Kyiv to survive the winter." — Maternova [07:10]
• "Europe is very much showing the signs of determination to play a much, much bigger role in its own security." — Maternova [09:52]
• "We think you are a lot stronger than you think you are." — favorite Ukrainian slogan [10:21]
• "What Trump is doing by adding doubt into this whole equation is that it sort of destroys the basis of deterrence." — Jan Janczynski [27:16]

Tone

The episode is clear, urgent, and conversational—blending first-hand testimony of life under siege in Ukraine with high-level analysis and candid reporting on Europe’s geopolitical crossroads. The perspectives are direct, empathetic, and pragmatic, with a focus on real-world consequences for both Ukraine and the wider continent.