The man behind the EU's Kremlin outreach

Summary

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Brussels Playbook Podcast

Episode Title: The man behind the EU's Kremlin outreach
Date: July 6, 2026
Host: Zoya Sheftalovich
Guest: Nick Vinica, Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent, POLITICO

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the behind-the-scenes influence of Pedro Loti, the man steering the European Council’s Kremlin outreach under President Antonio Costa. In addition, it covers two other headline stories: Parliament President Roberta Metsola’s unusual push for a new vote on the controversial child sexual abuse material (CSAM) bill, and new revelations from an EU fraud investigation into a Hungarian spy ring in Brussels. The hosts mix sharp insights with casual banter, providing listeners a brisk and enlightening overview of the complex EU machinery at work.

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Main Story: The Man Behind the EU’s Kremlin Outreach

Who is Pedro Loti? (Starts ~01:34)

• Pedro Loti is the head of cabinet to European Council President Antonio Costa.
• Loti is a classic "power behind the scenes" operator in EU politics—little known to the public but influential among insiders.
• He has recently stepped into the limelight managing the EU’s surprise diplomatic outreach to the Kremlin, a move that caught Brussels and national capitals off guard.

Nick Vinica [01:43]:
"Pedro Loti has kind of stepped into the limelight in the past few weeks by managing this outreach to the Kremlin, which obviously generated a lot of headlines and major responses from EU leaders."

Loti’s Working Style

• Loti's effectiveness comes from relentless coordination, particularly with his counterpart in the Commission, Bjorn Seibert.
• Loti and Seibert "talk to each other multiple times every day" to ensure alignment between the Council and Commission.

Zoya Sheftalovich [02:11]: "He [Gabriel Gavin] reveals that the two of them [Loti and Seibert] talk to each other multiple times every day. They're constantly coordinating... there’s a great anecdote in the story where Lawy and Sybert are making calls from a car to inform everyone and get everyone on the same page when it comes to the peace talks that Donald Trump announced for the Ukraine war last year."

Diplomatic Balancing Act

• The relationship between the EU institutions and national capitals is a "delicate dance."
• Loti's job requires balancing the interests and power of the EU institutions with those of the member states.
• Kremlin outreach upset this balance, with some leaders complaining that Costa “overstepped.”

Nick Vinica [03:22]:
"That’s where you really get a sense of kind of the delicate dance going on between EU institutions, national power. How much are these people allowed to decide and represent the union versus actually having the power in the hands of the capitals?"

Context: Antonio Costa’s Reputation

• Costa is popular among leaders for being predictable and consultative—a departure from his predecessor Charles Michel, who was criticized for poor relationships with both the Commission and member capitals.
• The decision to talk to Russia was a significant break from Costa’s usual consensus-driven methods.

Zoya Sheftalovich [04:15]:
"Costa has broadly been seen as a very popular European Council president...So this move, when it landed on the eve of that summit—the news that he had spoken with Ushuk of the Russian—was a really significant departure..."

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Discussion Segment 2: The CSAM Bill’s Parliamentary Drama (Starts ~06:10)

Background

• The EU's CSAM bill aims to combat child sexual abuse material online by allowing tech platforms to scan for illegal content.
• The bill has faced consistent opposition over privacy concerns—particularly from tech companies and privacy advocates.

Nick Vinica [06:29]:
"In March, the Parliament voted down these rules that would have allowed tech companies to scan for child sexual abuse online..."

Metsola’s Rare Move

• Parliament President Roberta Metsola is invoking an unusual procedure, requesting a second vote on the bill after it was previously rejected.
• This rarely used mechanism lowers the threshold for passage if the bill is resubmitted by the Council.

Zoya Sheftalovich [07:21]: "Metsola is asking law lawmakers to vote again... using this quite rare procedure that hasn't been used very much in the past..."

• Critics see Metsola’s move as undermining Parliament's position and siding with Council leadership.
• Metsola's spokesperson claims the move followed due process and no objections from parliamentary group heads.

Notable Quote—Nick Vinica [09:39]:
"Obviously the lawmakers are annoyed. We have Raquel Garcia, Ermita van der Walle, Dutch MEP from the Liberal Renew Party, saying that the EPP—Metzola’s party—is 'clearly and actively undermining our position as Parliament.'"

Upcoming Timeline [10:17–10:39]:

• Monday: Metsola expected to file a formal request for an urgent vote.
• Tuesday: Lawmakers vote on whether to proceed.
• Thursday: Full Parliament votes on the CSAM bill.

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Spotlight 3: Hungarian Spy Ring Targeted EU Officials (Starts ~11:14)

New Revelations

• An internal investigation finds that Hungarian intelligence operatives stationed at Hungary’s Permanent Representation in Brussels tried to recruit EU officials (2013–2016).
• Their goal: extract sensitive info relevant to the Hungarian government, particularly under Viktor Orban.

Zoya Sheftalovich [11:35]: "The document says that the work involved approaching Commission officials of Hungarian nationality and attempting to collect detailed information from them..."

Key Figures

• Oliver Varhely, now EU Health Commissioner and then Hungary’s EU ambassador, was in the post during the period when the activity ramped up.
• He denies any knowledge or wrongdoing, as reiterated by the hosts.

Investigation Outcome

• The probe could not attribute individual responsibility beyond the intelligence officers themselves.
• No direct consequences for current officials, but the findings underscore the perennial security risks inside the “Brussels bubble.”

Nick Vinica [12:47]: "The document says it is not possible to attribute individual responsibility or involvement beyond that of the intelligence officers themselves. So make of that what you will..."

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

Light Banter

• Early episode soccer chat:
  • Zoya [01:12]: “I'm really jealous of your French soccer team because the Australians got booted out from the World Cup. So now I'm really sad. No socceroos.”
  • Nick [01:21]: “This is the moment every few years when I become totally French...”

Listener Engagement

• A listener from Luxembourg, Mara, shares that the podcast helped her stay connected to the EU when living abroad and is now part of her daily commute [13:51].

Mara [13:51]:
"I first started listening to your podcast when I was living in Washington, D.C. because I felt like it was such a good way to keep up with what's going on at the EU. And now, even though I'm back in Europe, it's still part of my routine."

Podcast Meta

• Running joke about too many tote bags, encouragement to subscribe, and playful closing banter [14:33–15:49].

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Key Timestamps

• 01:34: Main segment introduced—profile of Pedro Loti and his Kremlin outreach
• 02:11: Loti & Seibert’s daily coordination and anecdote about Ukraine peace talks
• 03:22-05:11: Explaining Council/Commission dynamics, Costa’s leadership style, and the fallout from the Kremlin overture
• 06:10: Introduction of the CSAM bill issue
• 07:57-10:39: Metsola’s rare procedure, political maneuvering, and next legislative steps
• 11:14: In-depth on Hungarian spy ring findings
• 13:51: Listener Mara shares her experience with the podcast
• 14:33–15:49: Banter about tote bags, podcast community, and subscription encouragement

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Summary

This episode provides an incisive look at the shadowy networks holding EU decision-making together. Listeners gain rare insight into how operatives like Pedro Loti steer diplomacy at the highest levels, the fierce political infighting over sensitive legislation, and the persistent undercurrents of espionage in Brussels. Blending crisp analysis, original reporting, and everyday humor, the Brussels Playbook Podcast continues to demystify the personalities and maneuvers shaping Europe’s political future.

Transcript

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

So good, so good, so good. New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores.

[Mara]

Now.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Get ready to save big with up to 60% off brands like Rag and Bone, Levi's, Adidas and free people. Join the NordicLub to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Good morning. It's Monday, July 6th, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The vibe in Brussels today is diligent as we take a closer look at the busy life of the EU's deal maker in chief, Pedro Lawy. Also on the pod, European Parliament President Roberto Mazzola wants MEPs to vote on her child sexual abuse bill again thanks to a victim, very unusual procedure. And a Hungarian spy ring that was operating out of the country's permanent representation in Brussels was trying to recruit EU officials, according to some documents seen by our colleagues. I'm Zora Shekhtalovic and with me today is our chief foreign affairs correspondent, Nick Vinica. Hey, Nick.

[Nick Vinica]

Hey there.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

I'm really jealous of your French soccer team because the Australians got booted out from the World Cup. So now I'm really sad. No socceroos.

[Nick Vinica]

I know this is the, you know, moment every. Every few years when, when I become totally French.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Fair weather French.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah, exactly. Fair weather French. Just for this ride,

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Nick. Our first story of the day is super interesting. It is a profile of Pedro Loti, who is the European Council president, Antonio Costa's head of cabinet.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah. And this is one of the sort of power behind the scenes characters in Brussels, not very well known by, you know, the general public, not everybody in Brussels, but wields enormous influence behind the scenes. And Pedro Lorti has kind of stepped into the limelight in the past few weeks by managing this outreach to the Kremlin, which obviously generated a lot of headlines and major responses from EU leaders.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah, that's right. And so our colleague Gabriel Gavin has this profile that's out this morning and he's got some very interesting tidbits in there. So he's spoken to loads of people, including Lottie himself, actually, to get a picture of what it is he does and how he operates. And actually, the thing that really took my interest was that he spoken with Bjorn Seibert, who is his opposite number in the European Commission president's cabinet, and he reveals that the two of them talk to each other multiple times every day. They're constantly coordinating, so making sure that the European Council and the European Commission are on the same page with all sorts of things. And then they'll go away to their respective bosses and to the various stakeholders and talk to those. And for Lottie, that's the 27 EU ambassadors in town who he's constantly trying to corral ahead of these European Council summits. And he's doing that at these. They're called co repair meetings. They're these meetings of the EU's ambassadors. So he's going to chat to them at those. He's making calls. I mean, there's a great anecdote in the story where Lawy and Sybert are making calls from a car to inform everyone and get everyone on the same page when it comes to the peace talks that Donald Trump announced for the Ukraine war last year.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah, and that's a really interesting anecdote because it was one where these two power behind the scenes, Bjorn Seibert, head of cabinet to Ursula von der Leyen and Pedro Lorti, were sent to represent Europe in these peace talks. And you can see that they, very quickly, after the meeting, needed to coordinate, felt the need to inform and coordinate with all the EU ambassadors, effectively all the EU capitals. And that's where you really get a sense of kind of the delicate dance going on between Eugene, EU institutions, national power. How much are these people allowed to decide and represent the union versus actually having the power in the hands of the capitals? And a successful person in these jobs will be able to maintain that balance. We could see that the Kremlin outreach was one moment where that balance was a little bit disrupted. And some of the leaders said, you overstepped.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah, totally. And this was something that you and I picked up because we were both covering the summit, the European Council summit, where this explosive revelation had come out just to ahead of it, and it derailed the whole thing. And it was interesting because Antonia Kosha has broadly been seen as a very popular European Council president, which you can't really say for all of his predecessors, because, for instance, Charles Michel, who is his direct predecessor, he did not have a good relationship with the European Commission. He did not have a good relationship with EU member countries. So he was kind of constantly getting into hot water for these sorts of things. Whereas Antonio Costa, he's seen as, you know, kind of a guy who doesn't go over your head. He's a guy who's predictable. So this move, when it landed on the eve of that summit, the news that he had spoken with Ushuk of the Russian, that was a really significant departure from what had been happening up until that point, when it comes to Koshta and Teloti.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah. And let's put it another way. I mean, Kosta has been very consensual. He has done everything to keep people happy. He's kept the Yukos to one day. He's not spoken out of turn. But there is also an aspect of existing as the leader of an institution. And we have a surfeit. We have an excess of institution leaders. We have the Parliament, the Commission, the Council, and the External Action Service. So this was an example of Costa kind of using the full scope of his mandate via his head of Cabinet to make a diplomatic overture. And we can see that it sort of brought some responses. But the piece has a lot more about the work that Lorti does day to day, among other things, making the Yukos a success by coordinating among all these different capitals. And, of course, that's its own kind of diplomatic art. And the piece has some compliments about him and how he does that.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah. Worth a read. Nick. Our second story of the day is a bit of a tough one. It's about csam. It's this bill that the EU is trying to pass which is meant to fight child sexual abuse material, but it's having a really rough ride through the EU's machine.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah, absolutely. In March, the Parliament voted down these rules that would have allowed tech companies to scan for child sexual abuse online, but that proved kind of unpopular with top level of officials. I have to say, this is an issue that has been going on for years, since I was tech editor, I

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

think, since I was a tech reporter.

[Nick Vinica]

Right. And it just kind of keeps coming back, basically, governments pushing to be able to look for this material on platforms and.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah, like WhatsApp and Telegram, those sorts of messaging. They want to be able to scan them to check if people are uploading this material. Right.

[Nick Vinica]

And so it butts against first the opposition from the tech companies, but then also from the privacy advocates who say, well, you're going to kind of de facto scan our communications. It's definitely a moral conundrum there of what is the bigger social interest.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Right, yeah. So now, like the European Parliament, President, Roberto Metsola, I mean, we've already spoken about. We've spoken about Antonio Kosta, we've spoken about Ursula von der Leyen. It's Metsola's turn. Metsola is asking law lawmakers to vote again. Our colleague Sam Clark reports. So that's going to happen this week, basically using this quite rare procedure that hasn't been used very much in the past, which in effect means that EU national governments will send the Parliament the bill a second time. And then there's a, essentially like this lower threshold that they'll need to meet to pass this one.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah. And let's just say how unusual this is. Right. I mean, the President is not there to kind of steer the agenda, the legislative agenda. She's, she's there to represent the institution. So for her to step in like this and ask for a second vote, it just reminds you that she's the member of a party, she represents a country. And a lot of the leaders are behind this bill. Do want action, do want ways to scan content. And so in a way they're kind of using, or I would say that she is, you know, acting in a way that sort of supports their agenda. And it is an unusual move for her to make.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah. And let's just explain to our listeners what exactly is happening. So basically, usually, so the European Commission is the body that proposes laws, and then the European Council and the Parliament, they will produce their own kind of competing versions of the law. And the three of them will discuss this in what's called the trialogue in Brussels speak. It's a three way meeting. And that then goes to a vote to the Parliament and the European Council has to approve it and so on it goes. But now this bill, which is the second version of the CSAM bill that's coming, coming directly from national governments within the council. So it's kind of this like new way of putting it forward. And when the parliament voted the bill down in March, it did so with 311 votes against. So that would not be enough because this bill is coming straight from the council. You would need 361 votes to vote it down. So the parliament, the MEPs who are against this rule, won't likely, unless there's more of them who join this side, they're unlikely to be able to kibosh at this time. Right.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah. So this is kind of a power move from the council, you could say, with, with Metsola's cooperation here to, to make this happen. And obviously the lawmakers are annoyed. We have Raquel Garcia, Ermita van der Walle, excuse me, Dutch MEP from the Liberal Renew Party saying that the EPP metzalist party is clearly and actively undermining our position as Parliament. Close quotation marks. And Metsola's spokesperson has pushed back, saying that the issue was raised and asked for at a meeting of the heads of parliamentary groups. And no one objected to her making this move.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah, that's right. So in terms of the next steps, Nick. So the most likely kind of choreography is that Metsola is expected to file a formal request to hold this urgent vote on the bill today. And then tomorrow lawmakers are going to vote on whether to do that. And then on Thursday, the whole plenary chamber would vote on the actual proposal. So this is kind of crunch week for this bill. Nick, for our third story, this one is a very interesting one and it's one we've been following for a while. So you might remember last year the allegations came out that there was a Hungarian spy ring that was operating out of the Hungarian Embassy in Brussels. And that was such big news in town. And Pyotr Seraphin, the EU's anti fraud commissioner, was tasked to investigate this thing. And now our colleagues Mari Eccles and Max Griera have their hands on the findings.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah, it's a great scoop. And the finding is basically that the Hungarian spy ring operating out of the Permanent Representation in Brussels did target EU officials. This document that they got shows that from 2013 to 2016, Hungarian spy agencies sent several officials to work at the Permanent Representation.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah. And the document says that the work involved approaching Commission officials of Hungarian nationality and attempting to collect detailed information from them regarding work within the Commission on topics of specific interest to the Hungarian government. Now, of course, this is the Hungarian government of Viktor Orban, the former Prime Minister, who's now gone in Hungary, but who was a great spoiler when it comes to EU legislative work.

[Nick Vinica]

And of course, Orban is now out of power, but some of the key characters are still very much in the frame. And this is where the plot thickens, so to speak. The activity kind of ramped up in 2015, according to these documents, which happens to be the same year that the current EU Health Commissioner, Oliver Varhely, became the country's EU ambassador and headed up the office.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

We should say here that he has always denied any, firstly, knowing anything, secondly, doing anything wrong when it comes to this alleged spying. And earlier this year he actually told MEPs that he'd never been approached by intelligence agencies to pass on secret info and so on and so forth. And he didn't respond to a request for comment about these documents. But it's pretty much like it's a significant finding, this thing.

[Nick Vinica]

Right. And this is where the document maybe doesn't sort of go the last mile. It doesn't name any individuals as being responsible. The document says it is not possible to attribute individual responsibility or involvement beyond that of the intelligence officers themselves. So make of that what you will. It doesn't require anyone to own up or it isn't damaging to anyone. And that's what this investigation found.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah, absolutely. Certainly interesting times, Nick, in the Berlamont, I would say. And if you want to read more about this, plenty more in the last edition of EU Influence, Right? Oh, well, that's almost it from us today. But we do have a few fun video that got sent to us by one of our listeners last week. We were promising merch in exchange for videos about how you found the pod and why you like to listen to it. And we've got one listener who has sent us her video. Mara has reached out, and here's what she's got to say.

[Mara]

Hi, Brussels Playbook podcast team. This is Mara from Luxembourg. I first started listening to your podcast when I was living in Washington, D.C. because I felt like it was such a good way to keep up with what's going on at the eu. And now, even though I'm back in Europe, it's still part of my routine. I still listen to your podcast every single day on my way home from work. And my favorite episode, I would say, is any episode where you talk about the scooters in Brussels. That always gives me a very good laugh.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Nick, look at you go. Winning hearts and minds.

[Nick Vinica]

I know. I'm blushing and beaming here behind the podcast mic.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Well, Mara, congrats. You're about to get your hands on some goodies. And if anyone else out there wants some merch, let us know. Still time to get in the running. We've got plenty of tote bags. Nick, have you got a tote?

[Nick Vinica]

I have more totes than we than I know what to do with.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Total reek.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah, no, I sort of have the philosophy that more tote bags is good and always take tote bags whenever I can get, but now it's just getting a little out of hand.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Well, bring some in and maybe we can give some more people some tote bags out in the Brussels potter sphere.

[Nick Vinica]

You know what's not one too many, though, is the Brussels Playbook podcast tote bag that we made for our live edition. That one is a collector's item and definitely staying.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah, you'd better not be giving that one away. Before we go, Nick, do you know our podcast producer, Saga, told me something super interesting today? She said that not everyone who listens to us on Apple podcasts are subscribed to us. In fact, 9% just kind of ad hoc listen. So if you're one of those 9% out there, folks. Click subscribe, why don't you? Then you'll get us every day.

[Nick Vinica]

Yeah, like, what's going on there? Let's have. Let's get some commitment.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Absolutely. If you like it, put a like on it. No, put a subscribe on it.

[Nick Vinica]

Put a ring on it.

[Zora Shekhtalovic]

Yeah. And in the podcast world, rings are subscribes. All right, folks, speak to you tomorrow.