Why Brussels is getting tougher on China

Summary

Brussels Playbook Podcast: Why Brussels Is Getting Tougher on China

Host: Zoya Shevdolovich (Chief EU Correspondent, POLITICO)
Guest: Nick Winnicker
Date: May 18, 2026
Duration: ~15 minutes
Main Theme:
A brisk, insider’s look at the EU’s shifting stance toward China, new revelations about Russia’s persistent sanctions evasion, and a spirited debate over MEP immunity—offering vital context on the power games and economic anxieties gripping Brussels.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Zoya Shevdolovich and Nick Winnicker break down why the EU is preparing to take a markedly tougher trade stance against China—right as the U.S. pulls back—and unpack the political and diplomatic calculations driving this pivot. The hosts then turn to a new investigative report on how Russia continues to secure European technology in defiance of sanctions, before exploring a topical controversy around parliamentary immunity in the European Parliament. The episode is interspersed with lighter moments, including birthday shout-outs and museum recommendations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The EU’s Harder Line on China

[00:26 – 06:13]

• Backdrop:
  Brussels is preparing to escalate its trade defenses against China, reacting to European industries buffeted by cheap, allegedly subsidized Chinese imports. This debate exposes old divisions—especially between member states more worried about Chinese retaliation than about dumping.

  • “The mood in Brussels today is sharpening as the European Commission prepares to take a tougher line on China, just as the U.S. is backing off.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [00:27]

• What’s Changing?

  • The Commission, with DG Trade at the helm, is advancing new tools beyond rhetoric: investigations, quotas, and trade defense mechanisms, covering not just electric cars but solar panels, batteries, machinery, chemicals, and steel.
  • “It’s not just rhetoric. We’re talking about new investigations, quotas, trade defense measures, and it goes beyond electric cars.” — Nick Winnicker [02:11]

• EU Member State Tensions:

  • Countries most affected by Chinese competition (notably Germany) are often the most reluctant to hit back, fearing asymmetrical Chinese retaliation. Berlin fears losing access to the Chinese market for its own exports, notably cars.
  • “Germany … they are concerned that if the EU does something really strong, then China might hit back. And, you know, what China tends to do is quite asymmetrical.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [02:47]

• Tit-for-Tat Risks:

  • Recent Chinese pushback against an EU investigation into the scanner manufacturer Nuketech was highlighted as evidence of China’s retaliatory habit—and European nerves.

• WTO Complications:

  • There’s tension over whether tougher measures might break WTO rules, which some dismiss since “the WTO is barely functioning at this point. The US has effectively killed the WTO.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [04:05]

• Political Calculus:

  • The departure of Viktor Orban as Hungary’s PM (a noted China friend) potentially unblocks tougher action, but Spain’s Pedro Sanchez is now courting Beijing.
  • “The fact that Viktor Orban has left the stage as Hungarian Prime Minister is opening the way for potential changes here.” — Nick Winnicker [04:41]

• Economic Crisis Context:

  • Europe is under financial pressure due to the Strait of Hormuz blockade and wider economic anxieties, making trade policy even more fraught.

• Upcoming Key Dates:

  • G7 Finance Ministers Meeting: Relations with China on agenda [06:13]
  • May 29: Commission orientation debate on trade measures
  • June 18: Next European Council summit will revisit the issue

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2. How Russia Evades EU Sanctions

[06:14 – 10:14]

• New Investigation:

  • A POLITICO, Bild, and Axel Springer collaboration revealed how a Lübeck-based company (“Global Trade”) acted as a conduit for Russian buyers, using German frontmen and emails.
  • “Investigators say the Russians were effectively running parts of it from Moscow using German aliases and the company’s email addresses.” — Nick Winnicker [07:11]

• Nature of Evasion:

  • The company acquired dual-use goods (sensors, microcontrollers, oscilloscopes, measurement equipment) that could end up in Russian drones, illustrating the hard-to-block flow of sensitive tech.

• Sanctions “Whack a Mole”:

  • The sanctions regime is a constant cat-and-mouse game, as third countries (Turkey, UAE, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Armenia) become intermediaries for prohibited goods.
  • “Anyone you talk to who’s involved in sanctions describes it as a game of whack a mole…” — Nick Winnicker [08:22]

• Sanctions Enforcement:

  • EU sanctions envoy David O’Sullivan shuttles between countries to pressure them to clamp down, but acknowledgment remains that “this is a game of sort of pushing out the tide and fighting.” — Nick Winnicker [09:50]

• Significance:

  • Sanctions are the EU’s main lever besides military aid, and officials insist they are biting—but the investigation shows the ease with which Russia adapts.

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3. European Parliament Immunity Controversy

[10:14 – 13:51]

• Context:

  • MEPs are debating whether to lift the parliamentary immunity of Angelika Niebler (EPP, Germany), who is facing investigation for allegedly misusing EU funds (having paid assistants act as drivers).
  • The Legal Affairs Committee has advised against lifting immunity, igniting debate about self-protection vs. the public interest.
  • “Should a parliamentary committee have any say over whether a person can be investigated? That’s really what we’re getting at here.” — Nick Winnicker [11:00]

• Key Arguments:

  • Against Lifting Immunity:

    • Some MEPs fear prosecutors may destroy careers with weak cases: “If we allow these cases to go ahead, basically, it can destroy an MEP’s reputation… and then ultimately come to nothing.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [13:04]

  • In Favor of Transparency:

    • Critics argue the committee is overstepping, acting as a court and judging the merits of the evidence instead of merely checking for political motivation.
    • “Transparency campaigners say that’s not that committee’s role at all. And one MEP that we’ve got in this story … said, ‘We are not a court.’” — Zoya Shevdolovich [12:46]

• Wider Implications:

  • Parliament has faced criticism for shielding its own; recent corruption probes (like “Qatargate”) are cited in the debate.

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4. Lighter Moments & Listener Engagement

[13:51 – END (~15:00)]

• Birthday Shout-outs:

  • Special mention of MEP birthdays, including Alexander Bernhuber, Bogdan Zdrojewski, and Abir Ossalani (who went viral for cutting her hair in Parliament in solidarity with Iranian women).

• International Museum Day:

  • Hosts share favorite museums—Brussels Train Museum (Nick) and the Parthenon Museum in Athens (Zoya and Dionis).

• Call for Listener Input:

  • “Listeners, let us know what your favorite European museum is. Tell us what you like. Tell us what you don’t like.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [15:03]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s a big one because it’s about EU China relations.… fears that Europe is essentially getting oversaturated with Chinese products that are … being sold at sort of very artificially cheap prices, flooding the market and pushing out EU companies.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [01:26]
• “Countries most affected … are also some of the ones most skeptical about pushing back.” — Zoya Shevdolovich [02:47]
• “Investigators say the Russians were effectively running parts of it from Moscow using German aliases and the company’s email addresses.” — Nick Winnicker [07:11]
• “Anyone you talk to who’s involved in sanctions describes it as a game of whack a mole…” — Nick Winnicker [08:22]
• “Transparency campaigners say that’s not that committee’s role at all.… ‘We are not a court.’” — Zoya Shevdolovich [12:46]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Main EU/China Trade Shift: 00:26–06:13
• Russia’s Sanctions Evasion Tactics: 06:14–10:14
• MEP Immunity Debate & Parliamentary Self-Policing: 10:14–13:51
• Birthdays & Museums, Listener Engagement: 13:51–END (~15:00)

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Tone & Style

Conversational, sharp, and reporting-driven—balancing weighty insider policy analysis with breezy, relatable dialogue and moments of humor. The episode offers clarity and context without jargon or spin.

Transcript

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[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Good morning. It's Monday, May 18, and this is the Brussels Playbook podcast. The mood in Brussels today is sharpening as the European Commission prepares to take a tougher line on China, just as the US is backing off. Also on the pod, a new investigation in Germany shows how Russia still gets European tech despite sanctions. And in Strasbourg, MEPs clash over parliamentary immunity and whether lawmakers are protecting their own. I'm Zoya Shevdolovic and with me today is Nick Winnicker. Hey, Nick.

[Nick Winnicker]

Hey.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Did you bangaranga over the weekend?

[Nick Winnicker]

Oh, you know it.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Congratulations. To Bulgaria, to Dara, a phenomenal banger. I was on board.

[Nick Winnicker]

We were just banging it in the studio.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

We were doing it this morning as if we were having a Eurovision party, but sadly, we're not.

[Nick Winnicker]

Strong, strong showing.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yep. All right, let's get to it. Nick. Our first story, it's a big one because it's about EU China relations. And basically what's been happening is that European countries and the EU have been reckoning with what to do about the trade competition that comes from China and fears that Europe is essentially getting oversaturated with Chinese products that are being sold at sort of very artificially cheap prices, flooding the market and pushing out EU companies. And that's being felt in a lot of different industries. And we've had a pretty interesting scoop from our colleagues Gabriel, Gavin and Carlo Mattischelli, who found out that the Commission is actually preparing to take a much tougher stance towards Beijing, with DG trade holding the pen on a plan that might shake things up a bit.

[Nick Winnicker]

Absolutely. And you know, this is an ongoing debate for years in Brussels, more hawkish to more dovish. We know that in her last term, Ursula von der Leyen, sort of moderated, now seems to be getting tougher, as you mentioned, just as the US seems to be easing off some of its sanctions. So the idea here, as Gabriel and Carla reported, is to convince skeptical EU capitals to accept stronger tools against Chinese trade practices or overproduction, dumping and so on. It's not just rhetoric. We're talking about new investigations, quotas, trade, defense measures, and it goes beyond electric

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

cars, so solar panels, batteries, clean tech, chemicals, machinery, steel, there's all sorts of stuff that's coming in from China. But there is also attention because the same countries that are impacted the most by that Chinese oversupply in those industries are also some of the ones that are the most skeptical about pushing back. And we're talking Germany here. And they are concerned that if the EU does something really strong, then China might hit back. And, you know, what China tends to do is quite asymmetrical. So when you slap China with sanctions or where you say, you know, you've been dumping this particular good and impose some sanctions on China in that particular area, China hits back somewhere else. And that's kind of the M.O. we've seen it. When China has been in trade spots with Australia, with the us, it hits out at something else. So that's the concern in those skeptical countries.

[Nick Winnicker]

And we have seen a little bit how this plays out. Brussels was investigating a Chinese scanner company called nuketech, which makes all kind of electronics, over potential unfair subsidies. And China has hit back pretty hard, accusing the EU of overreach, trying to force access to sensitive data. And Beijing has even warned that Chinese companies shouldn't cooperate with parts of the probe. So there is a hard edge to this debate, but it's not holding the Commission back so far. Right.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

So, yeah, and this is the thing, although there is something that might hold the Commission back, which is the World Trade Organization, because basically this Commission action, it might contravene some of those WTO rules. Now, some people say, look, that actually doesn't matter because the WTO is barely functioning at this point. The US has effectively killed the wto, but nonetheless, it is a bit rich for the EU to try to impose, you know, this rule of law kind of language while at the same time potentially doing something that contravenes those rules. So that is definitely attention as it gears up towards making these sorts of proposals.

[Nick Winnicker]

Absolutely. And of course, there's a lot of tricky politics to solve here in coming months. The Commission has wanted stronger tools for years, but as you mentioned, Germany, historically cautious about any trade escalation, still relying on that export market to sell German cars, even if they're in smaller numbers. And we know that German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, discussed this issue in other Aachen last week. The fact that Viktor Orban has left the stage as Hungarian Prime Minister is opening the way for potential changes here.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah, because he was a big pal of Beijing, not just, not just Russia. But also. Also China. Yeah. So he's out of the way now. And that's a blocker that's gone. But then we've got the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, who is courting closer ties with China as well.

[Nick Winnicker]

Exactly. So it's always a tough sell. But. But the fact that the Commission is pushing on this is really significant at a time of broader economic crisis here. Europe is really suffering from the blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. We've heard some really dire economic warnings in recent weeks and this is an attempt to kind of grab hold and get control of the situation.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah. So we're going to see some action on this. Actually today you're reporting that it's going to be on the agenda at the G7 finance ministers meeting.

[Nick Winnicker]

Certainly the relations with China are going to be in scope. The US Finance minute, not Finance Minister. Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besant is going to be in France and Paris for this G7 meeting. And we know this is going to be on the agenda there.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah. And that's not all. It's also going to be on the agenda on May 29 when the Commission is going to have orientation debate on it. And then there's actually going to be at the next European council summit in June 18. The leaders are going to pick this one up again and that's when we're really going to see the action. So it's going to be one to watch. Nick, just a week ago you and I were Talking about the EU's upcoming sanctions package against Russia. But today we're going to look at how Russia manages to get around basically all of the sanctions that the EU imposes. And that's still happening right now. There's a story via the Axel Springer Global Reporters Network where which is a collaboration between Politico, Build and other reporters. And it basically looks at this Lubeck based trading company called Global Trade. And German prosecutors believe it's become part of a Russian procurement network that allows the Kremlin to get parts that it needs to continue waging war on Ukraine.

[Nick Winnicker]

Yeah. And what's fascinating about this story is how this company is set up to look as normal as possible. It's a normal German trading company. In reality. Investigators say the Russians were effectively running parts of it from Moscow using German aliases and the company's email addresses. EU suppliers thought they were dealing with a legitimate EU business, not Russian buyers. And of course, the goods involved are things that can be used for dual use. That means for weapons as well as civilian use. We're Talking about sensors, microcontrollers, not going to pretend I know what that is. Oscilloscopes and measurement equipment. You can imagine some of those things ending up in drones, for example.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah, it's a really significant investigation because it really shows the way in which Russia manages to get around all of these things that the EU puts up. But also like, it's so easy seemingly to get these dual use goods. And basically we've got several suspects in custody now. Prosecutors are preparing possible indictments and there are several charges they're looking at. So sanctions, evasion, illegal exports, etc. But this is just demonstrating the extent to which the Russians are able to evade all of these measures.

[Nick Winnicker]

Regardless, anyone you talk to who's involved in sanctions describes it as a game of whack a mole, effectively where you're constantly trying to close loopholes and go after evaders. Now, in this case, you know, we know that third countries are involved in circumventing these sanctions. We've heard about Turkey, United Emirates, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Armenia, all been repeatedly flagged by EU officials as countries helping with circumvention.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

I think we've all seen those graphs that do the rounds basically showing the trading goods between those countries and the EU that has just skyrocketed in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine when those sanctions were implemented. Basically all of the trade that the EU lost in those goods from Russia has just moved to these countries, like the uae, like Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, Armenia, which don't have the same sanctions as the EU does.

[Nick Winnicker]

Yeah, and of course the EU is constantly chasing these loopholes. And the person who's doing it effectively, our sanctions detective candidate for a Netflix series Someday is David O'. Sullivan. He's a former senior Irish diplomat, EU sanctions envoy since 2023. And what he does is constantly travel around to Central Asia, Turkey, Gulf countries, to make it harder for Moscow to use those countries as backdoors into the EU market.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah, and he's trying to convince them basically to crack down on these third party resellers and showing them where this is happening and how.

[Nick Winnicker]

And of course, why is this so important? Because sanctions are really the biggest stick that the EU has in its arsenal, aside from hard power. We're now in the working on the 21st package of sanctions against Russia. Top EU officials are insisting that this is finally biting against the Russian economy. But as we can see, this is a game of sort of pushing out the tide and fighting.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Not sure where the sentence goes, but I, I see what you're saying, Nick. I See exactly what you're saying, because it is, on the one hand, it can feel kind of futile when you're trying to go after these individual companies that are just popping up here, there and everywhere. You whack one mole, another one pops up somewhere else. But the flip side of that is that it is important and it is affecting the Russian war machine. The third story, it's about the European Parliament and their little lifting of immunity situation. The they're back in Strasbourg this week for one of their plenary sessions. And on the agenda is basically this vote that's happening tomorrow on whether to protect German EPP lawmaker Angelica Niebler from investigation.

[Nick Winnicker]

It is a really interesting debate. Should a parliamentary committee have any say over whether a person can be investigated? That's really what we're getting at here. So you have German prosecutors and the European Public Prosecutor's Office saying they want to investigate Ms. Niebler over alleged misuse of EU funds, meaning using her parliament funded assistance as drivers for private or unrelated trips. But the Parliament's Legal Affairs Committee jury has voted against lifting her immunity.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yes. So that sounds procedural, but it's a pretty significant fight in Parliament, we should say Angelica Niebla, she denies any wrongdoing. She says she looks forward to being cleared in any investigation. Nonetheless, the question is really, you know, should it be prosecutors who decide how to investigate lawmaker or their fellow MEP sitting on a parliamentary committee? And the critics of this kind of move to shield Nibla, but also other MEPs, the critics are saying that the European Parliament is just protecting its own increasingly and not allowing prosecutors to do their job.

[Nick Winnicker]

Yeah, exactly. And now basically the accusation is that Parliament's legal affairs community is kind of behaving like a court itself in deciding not to lift this immunity.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah. And when you look at some of the reasons that get given, it's like, oh, this case isn't strong enough. Well, Parliament's rules say that immunity, it should be lifted unless a case is politically motivated and it can be shown to be politically motivated. Now, in this particular case, critics are saying that jury is essentially just judging the strength of the evidence itself, rather than whether it should lift the immunity or not. And transparency campaigners say that's not that committee's role at all. And one MEP that we've got in this story written by a colleague, Max Guerrera, said, we are not a court.

[Nick Winnicker]

Yeah. And those who are in favor of keeping the immunity point to what they call mistakes in recent corruption probes. They talk about the Qatar gate affair where a vice president of the parliament was investigated, had their immunity lifted. Now, none of these people have been found guilty of crimes yet.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

I mean, it's not even that they haven't been found guilty of crimes. I mean, I don't see any charges either. So that's kind of the argument from these MEPs on this committee, particularly saying, look, if we allow these cases to go ahead, basically, it can destroy an MEP's reputation, it can ruin their career, and then ultimately come to nothing. So their argument is, well, if these prosecutors are just throwing around these accusations willy nilly, then we're going to not allow them to probe them. Yes. So this vote is happening on Tuesday, and we will, of course, be following that closely and we'll bring you the updates on it. Hey, Nick, let's go from meps in trouble to meps celebrating it's birthday time.

[Nick Winnicker]

How's that for a segue?

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Absolutely. We've got a few MEP celebrating today. We've got Austrian farmer turned mep, Alexander Bernhuber. Happy B. Day. We've got longtime Polish political heavyweight Bogdan Zdrajewski. Nope. Dionis. Help me. Dionis is our producer and he helps me with all my pronunciations of tricky Polish names. What is it?

[Nick Winnicker]

Bogdanz? Drojewski.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Drojewski. Oh, thank you. And Swedish lawmaker Abir Ossalani. Actually, our listeners might remember her from a viral moment when she cut her hair in the parliament chamber in solidarity with Iranian women. Happy birthday.

[Nick Winnicker]

Happy birthday to all of them. Yeah.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Hey, Nick, guess what? It's also national. No, it's International Museum Day, I'm told. International Museum Day, Finally. Yeah. You've been waiting for this one. What's your favorite European museum?

[Nick Winnicker]

I had a look at this, and it got me thinking. These days, I'm very Brussels museums, and I'm very partial to the train museum in Brussels, which I really think everyone should go to. It's very cool.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Oh, well, I was talking to Dionis earlier about how much we both share a love of the Parthenon Museum. So that's ours.

[Nick Winnicker]

The Parthenon Museum?

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Yeah. In Greece. In Athens.

[Nick Winnicker]

Just that one.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Just that one. That's.

[Nick Winnicker]

Might as well say the Louvre.

[Zoya Shevdolovic]

Listeners, let us know. Let us know what your favorite European museum is. Tell us what you like. Tell us what you don't like, folks. That's about it for today. We'll be back with you tomorrow.

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