EU Scream – Ep.111: Trump, The Tech Coup, and the EU
Guest: Marietje Schaake (Author of "The Tech Coup", former MEP, Senior Fellow, and EU AI Act co-chair)
Host & Interviewer: EU Scream team (James Kanter)
Date: November 30, 2024
Episode Overview
This episode explores the ways in which Silicon Valley’s tech giants—and the venture capitalists that back them—are acquiring unprecedented influence not only over technology, but also geopolitics, democracy, and civil liberties. Featuring Marietje Schaake, author of "The Tech Coup", the conversation probes the immediate impact of Donald Trump's return to the White House, Silicon Valley’s radical libertarianism, EU regulatory ambitions, and the threats and opportunities in tech governance. Underlying it all is a pressing question: With big tech moving from subtle influence to outright power, can liberal democracies reclaim democratic oversight and a public-interest-driven tech model before it’s too late?
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Silicon Valley’s Paradox: Wealth, Power, and Infrastructure Neglect
[00:04–01:00; 18:20–21:09]
- Marietje Schaake describes Silicon Valley’s surprising social and physical neglect, from basic infrastructure like street lighting and public transport to day labor economies, contrasting it with Europe’s standards for public goods.
- Quote [00:04]:
"It’s also just like infrastructure. Roads, lighting on roads…there are big cracks in the roads, trains don’t run normally. Basic infrastructure that we take for granted in Europe doesn’t even exist there."
— Marietje Schaake - Despite being the world's tech epicenter, Silicon Valley is marked by deep inequality—many are day laborers in the gig economy, far removed from the mythological American dream.
2. The "Tech Coup": From Hidden Power to Open Capture
[01:00–03:47; 05:00–08:00; 15:41–20:00]
- Schaake’s book argues that tech’s power grab is both overt (through campaign funding and lobbying) and covert (through the quiet assumption of quasi-governmental functions).
- The Trump victory, bankrolled by tech elites, is "the logical consequence of not intervening" ("the urgency...becomes more urgent every day" — Schaake [03:47]).
- She’s received pushback from tech leaders but also support from insiders and politicians, illustrating a recognition of the problem even within the industry:
Quote [06:04]:"...people who are close to the fire actually feel a lot of unease. They recognize what I’m talking about. They know the kind of tactics and sometimes dirty games that happen within their companies, and they are struggling with that as individuals…"
- Notably, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz highlighted the importance of democratizing the tech debate:
Quote [07:14]:"You don’t have to be an expert to say something about this."
3. Tech as Double-Edged Sword: Tools for Liberation & Repression
[08:00–15:00]
- Early hopes were that tech would democratize (e.g., Twitter during Arab Spring), but it quickly became a tool for surveillance and repression—often using tools exported freely from Europe.
- Quote [08:39]:
"...dictatorships...lifted a ban on the use of social media...then were persecuted for what they had shared, who they had connected with..."
- European-made surveillance (like Nokia Siemens, Safran) enabled both foreign and now domestic repression (see Greece, Hungary, Poland).
- Resistance to regulating this export has come from business lobbies and from intelligence agencies using such spyware themselves.
- Rise of "zero-click" spyware (no user action needed) illustrates the technological leap and regulators' lack of understanding.
Quote [14:24]:"...the sophistication of this technology is probably beyond what a lot of lawmakers can imagine."
4. Tech Firms as Shadow Governments
[15:41–18:00]
- Tech companies like Google possess comprehensive data, run physical infrastructure (cables, cloud), create essential platforms, and are nearly opaque due to trade secrets and "proprietary information."
- Quote [17:10]:
"They are not companies offering one product ... but they are in positions of power and influence in a wide variety of places in our society."
5. Silicon Valley’s Libertarian Ethos vs. EU Values
[18:01–21:10; 25:56–26:33]
- Silicon Valley's cult of individualism, contempt for government regulation, and radical profit-seeking are fundamentally at odds with social and democratic values in Europe.
- Schaake contrasts the myth of innovative utopia with the real, cutthroat, and highly unequal environment.
- Despite being host to the world’s richest, their governance, social fabric, and even basic services are in disrepair.
6. Tech Industry Political Power: Trump, Musk, Thiel
[24:57–27:40]
- Post-2024 US election, the collusion between Silicon Valley tycoons and government is stark.
Quote [28:46]:"One of the most striking and bizarre and worrying comments...Vance...threatened Europe with a US Pullout of NATO if Europeans would regulate any of Elon Musk’s platforms going forward. So this kind of business lobbying from a candidate and now vice President elect is completely crazy."
- Schaake warns these forces can now weaponize US geopolitics to directly serve tech industry interests.
- Anticipates deregulatory push, replacement of antitrust officials, and even direct threats to basic transatlantic security guarantees in exchange for business concessions.
7. The Threat to Transatlantic Tech Regulation
[27:40–32:00]
- European rules like the GDPR, Digital Services Act, Digital Markets Act, and especially the AI Act may face pressure, de-prioritization, or neglect in enforcement under US pressure.
- Schaake expects underfunding, slowed enforcement, and growing pressure for "strategic autonomy" in Europe as US cooperation wanes.
8. Strategic Leverage: Europe’s Procurement Power
[32:31–38:34]
- Proposes a shift in European (and all democratic) tech strategy: use public procurement to drive the market towards transparent, secure, and democratically governed tech, not merely regulation.
- Addresses "lock-in" contracts with dominant companies like Microsoft that perpetuate dependence and cybersecurity risk.
- Calls for model contracts, collective bargaining, and prioritizing security (not just harmonization or fundamental rights), suggesting a "national security" approach may be key to uniting EU member states around "Europe-first" technology choices.
9. Elon Musk: From Businessman to Security Threat
[39:54–45:00]
- Musk now controls strategic infrastructure (i.e., Starlink for Ukraine), wields open influence over US government, and interferes in EU politics (supporting AfD, criticizing EU leaders via Platform X).
- Schaake is torn on whether authorities should boycott Musk's platforms, but stresses the broader problem of concentrated tech power and underlines how lobbying, funding, and influence go well beyond direct political donations.
10. Cryptocurrencies: "Crypto Insanity Must End"
[47:38–51:00]
- Schaake is unequivocal in opposing crypto as a tool for criminals and anti-democratic actors:
Quote [48:27]:"Crypto is good for criminal networks. It's good for ultra far-right anti-system libertarians who want to destroy the dollar and the Federal Reserve and other currencies."
- Supports strong EU action (MICA, AML), even outright banning, and laments consumer opportunism driving up crypto after Trump's win.
11. AI Regulation: Europe’s Precautionary Path
[50:58–59:57]
- Schaake co-chairs the drafting of the EU AI Act’s voluntary code of practice for general-purpose models (e.g., ChatGPT).
- She champions a precautionary principle—field trials analogous to clinical trials in pharma—before AI is widely released.
- Quote [55:17]:
"…if there are new innovations about which the broader impact and potential harm are unknown...there would be a pause before it can be released into society, onto the market."
- Emphasizes the need for independent, public-interest risk assessment, not just self-regulation.
12. The Regulatory Capture Dilemma
[60:18–61:16]
- Host raises concerns about regulatory frameworks being co-opted by big tech ("the GDPR regulation...was co-opted by Google, among others"), and the risk tech companies will set their own terms.
- Schaake is cautiously optimistic, seeing a "small window" where public awareness and risk focus could result in real, independent oversight.
13. The Need for Hard Power and Democratic Accountability
[62:19–64:03]
- Schaake argues for “hard power”: robust state regulation, injunctions, market-breaking actions, and full liability for tech giants.
- Quote [63:08]:
"Reclaiming the primacy of democratic governance should be a cross cutting policy issue...this is really about regaining control, lessening the dependence, making sure that indeed there's risk, mitigation, liability, accountability at the end of the day."
14. Historical Parallels and The Danger Zone
[64:03–66:21]
- While historical analogies (e.g., business alliances with authoritarian regimes) are instructive, Schaake warns we must avoid being paralyzed by comparison; instead, focus on the unprecedented threat to democracy, rule of law, and fundamental freedoms posed by unchecked tech power.
15. Environmental Impact: Data Centers as a Climate Crisis Multiplier
[66:21–71:08]
- Hyperscale data centers, needed for AI, consume vast resources (electricity, water, land), with big tech often hiding their involvement behind shell entities when seeking local government approval.
- Lack of transparency in resource use and fragmented local governance pose serious challenges for coordinated European policy.
- Quote [70:16]:
"Cloud computing now has a larger carbon footprint than the airline industry...tech companies are now coming back to their own promises...their drive to focus on AI is greater than their commitment to their sustainability pledges."
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Silicon Valley’s paradox:
"It's pitch dark, there are big cracks in the roads, trains don't run normally. Basic infrastructure that we take for granted in Europe doesn’t even exist there."
— Marietje Schaake [00:04] -
On tech’s subtle takeover:
"They are overtaking the role of states when it comes to infrastructure and geopolitical decisions."
— Podcast Host [00:23] -
On the new US administration:
"This kind of business lobbying from a candidate and now vice President elect is completely crazy."
— Marietje Schaake [28:46] -
On the crypto boom:
"Crypto is good for criminal networks. It's good for ultra far right, anti-system libertarians who want to destroy the dollar and the Federal Reserve and other currencies."
— Marietje Schaake [48:27] -
On Europe’s regulatory edge:
"I point to the precautionary principle...there would be a pause before it can be released into society, onto the market."
— Marietje Schaake [55:17] -
On data centers and transparency:
"Tech companies typically...do not do the bidding showing their true identity...setting up entities with the sole purpose of shielding the true identity of big tech companies. And I see this as fundamentally anti-democratic..."
— Marietje Schaake [67:01]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [00:04] — The infrastructural and social inequalities of Silicon Valley
- [03:47] — "The urgency...becomes more urgent every day" — tech’s escalating power grab
- [08:39] — Social media’s double role: liberation and repression; European complicity
- [13:08–14:24] — Business and intelligence lobbying against spyware regulation; rise of zero-click attacks
- [17:10] — Tech companies as multi-function, opaque "shadow governments"
- [24:57] — Trump, Musk, Thiel, and the capture of American governance
- [28:46] — Vance’s NATO threat: tech policy as a security bargaining chip
- [32:31] — Public procurement as Europe’s underused lever
- [39:54] — Elon Musk as a security and political threat to Europe
- [47:38] — The role of crypto in empowering antidemocratic actors
- [55:17] — The case for a "pharma-style pause" before AI deployment
- [60:18] — The perils of regulatory capture in data protection and AI
- [63:08] — Call for "hard governance" and democratic primacy
- [70:16] — Environmental dangers of hyperscale data centers, and poor transparency
Tone & Language
- Tone: Urgent, incisive, and unflinching yet grounded in optimism about possible solutions.
- Language: Direct, accessible, sometimes technical, always principled. Schaake’s approach is empowering: everyone has a stake and a voice in shaping tech.
Summary Takeaways
Marietje Schaake paints a picture of urgent democratic risk as Silicon Valley’s power goes from subtle to open capture—most dangerously, through political entanglement at the highest level. Despite mounting tech backlash, deregulatory momentum, and uneven playing fields, she insists there’s time for Europe (and others) to build an alternative model—by leveraging procurement and robust regulation. Major obstacles include regulatory capture, resource asymmetries, and public resignation—yet models from public health, precedent for independent oversight, and coordinated policy could offer a way out. Only determined, democratic "hard power" can prevent Europe (and the world) from sleepwalking into a future governed not by publics, but by platforms.
For listeners who want to understand the stakes of the EU’s tech policy, the future of democracy in a world dominated by big tech, and how to fight back with real democratic power—this episode is indispensable.