245: On Lily Allen, Vogue World, Grace Wales Bonner

Summary

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Every Outfit - Episode 245: On Lily Allen, Vogue World, Grace Wales Bonner

October 31, 2025

Overview

In episode 245, hosts Chelsea Fairless and Lauren Garroni dive into the week’s most talked-about fashion and pop-culture happenings. The main event: a spirited, in-depth review of Lily Allen’s surprise album West End Girl and its highly personal, gossipy content. Other major segments include a breakdown of the Vogue World Hollywood event, thoughts on Grace Wales Bonner’s historic appointment at Hermès, estate sale scores, and the latest in fashion industry power moves. The pair’s signature witty, irreverent tone is on full display.

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Fashion & Social Recap (00:35 – 13:21)

• Event-Hopping in LA:
  Chelsea and Lauren recap a week packed with glitzy events: Genghis Cohen restaurant’s reopening, the Women in Film Vogue 100 dinner at the Beverly Hills Hotel, and Swarovski’s crystal-centric fashion & film exhibit.

  • Chelsea gushes about the “memphis maximalist” redux of Genghis Cohen. Lauren notes its influence on both the LA social and food scene.
  • Lauren recounts her post-baby wardrobe panic before the Vogue dinner:

    “I truly had a menti be getting dressed…my body is completely different…nothing fits at all.” (04:30)

  • Chelsea shares a fangirl moment with Britney Snow over the Hunting Wives SNL sketch.

    “I usually try not to corner celebrities, but Britney Snow was not so lucky.” (05:16)

• Swarovski Crystal Exhibit:
  Highlights include Marilyn Monroe’s “Happy Birthday, Mr. President” dress, Greta Garbo’s Adrienne gown, and Cher’s Bob Mackie look.

  • Cher’s dazzling, ageless presence stuns both:

    “She had, like, little crystal, like, wallet chains happening. Really good. Very like, Lady Marmalade.” (08:14, Chelsea)

• A-List Sightings:

  • Dita Von Teese: “She’s just so perfect in every way, so glamorous.” (08:27)
  • Jeff Goldblum: “He looks like he would be very, very tall in person…he’s not six-five.” (10:22)
  • Costume designers Ariane Phillips, Sandy Powell, and Catherine Martin attended.

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Main Topic: LILY ALLEN’s West End Girl (13:21 – 48:07)

The Album Lands: Context and Praise

• Album surprise-dropped with little fanfare and rapidly became a sensation for its candid, narrative structure:

  “It is so refreshing to listen to an album that was designed to be listened to in its entirety, in sequence. That in and of itself is subversive these days.” (13:45, Chelsea)

Themes & Backstory

• West End Girl is an “auto fiction” breakup album, largely about Allen’s open marriage and divorce from David Harbour.
• Reported to be written and recorded in just 10 days. Released ahead of Harbour’s Stranger Things press tour, possibly intentionally.

  “I was surprised to learn that she wrote this album and recorded it in 10 days last December.” (14:48, Lauren)

Track-by-Track Highlights

1. West End Girl

• Sets the stage with references to the infamous Architectural Digest tour of Allen and Harbour’s Brooklyn brownstone.
• Juicy specifics (interior designer Billy Cotton gets namedropped; cover art by Nieves Gonzalez and styled by Leith Clark).
• Reveals Allen’s perspective on the financial and emotional stakes of their relationship.
• Notable quote:

  “He’s really telling on himself with that.” (Lauren on David Harbour’s passive-aggressive opening night flowers, 21:34)

2. Ruminating, Tennis, Madeline

• Details Allen’s spiral over non-monogamy, referencing open relationship anxieties and jealousy.
• Identifies “Madeline” as a likely stand-in for real-life figure Natalie Tippett (a costume designer).

  “Anyone that's ever been cheated on, I think can relate to the kind of mental spiraling…” (27:45, Chelsea)

• The hosts dissect the boundaries set by Allen and Harbour—“payment,” “strangers,” “be discreet”—and Harbour’s failure to honor them.

3. Relapse

• A raw look at sobriety anxieties post-breakup.
• Lauren relays Harbour’s sweet anecdote about Allen’s daughters that made their relationship seem “parasocially” invested for fans. (31:10)

4. Pussy Palace

• The “centerpiece” of the album.
• Features razor-sharp, literal lyricism:

  “A Duane Reade bag with the handles tied. Sex toys, butt plugs, lube inside.” (40:25, Chelsea recounting Allen’s lyric)

• The bag image becomes a podcast meme.
  • “It’s too specific to not be real.”
• The hosts riff on whether David Harbour is a “sex addict” (consensus: no, just a late-to-fame, opportunistic dude).

5. Non Monogamummy, Just Enough, Dallas Major, Beg for Me, Let You Win, Fruity Loop

• Connects the album’s themes to broader pop culture (Beyoncé’s Lemonade, Alanis Morissette’s Jagged Little Pill).
• Allen’s brutal honesty—calling out her own mistakes, open marriage fallout, and celebrity breakup culture.

Reception, Impact, and Gossip

• The record’s popularity grows daily, defying expectations for Allen’s stateside fame.
• Swift but frank rebuttal to online backlash—Lily Allen’s “cancelable” behavior is almost entirely self-reported, i.e., “she nakedly confessed in her memoir.” (25:42)
• The album is declared a “no skips” entry and a prime Album of the Year contender.

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Hot Topics & Quick Debates (48:08 – 55:11)

• Estate Sale Adventures (51:39):

  • Chelsea scores rare finds from model Peggy Moffat’s house, reawakening her “estate sale girl” ambitions.
  • TikTok estate-sale influencers and mid-century home preservation chat.

• Versace & Bottega Visits (56:03):

  • Chelsea attends an exclusive Dario Vitali Versace collection preview (“even gayer in person... rings held the pants together”). (57:04)
  • Louise Trotter’s Bottega and astronomical pricing (“a coat that was $350,000 just casually on the rack”).

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Fashion Headline: Grace Wales Bonner at Hermès (58:27 – 63:21)

• Historic Appointment:

  • Wales Bonner becomes the first Black woman to helm a major luxury brand (as Hermès’ menswear designer). (58:35)
  • Praise for her unique “Afro-Caribbean” tailoring and innovative silhouettes.

    “She sort of came out like putting guys in these very tailored, skinny, high waisted pants... just so chic.” (58:45, Chelsea)

• Expectations:

  • Hosts eagerly anticipate her impact on Hermès, especially since the brand’s menswear lacks a clear identity.
  • Wales Bonner’s Adidas collab and career trajectory lauded.

    “It’s fate. Also… her ongoing collaboration with Adidas is one of the best.” (61:31, Chelsea)

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Fashion Event Analysis: Vogue World Hollywood (63:30 – 85:12)

“What is Vogue World?” The Eternal Question

• Chelsea and Lauren join the New York Times, Mindy Kaling, and much of fashion media in asking what Vogue World actually is.
  • “Vogue World is a money making event for Vogue… they raised $30 million overall.” (66:41, Lauren)
  • Charity proceeds support the Entertainment Community Fund and Costume Designers Guild ($4.5 million).

The Show: Format, Choreography, Critiques

• Livestream Coverage

  • Difficult to follow individual looks due to chaotic choreography and camera work.

    “This might be the first fashion show that it’s actually better to ingest via photographs than through video.” (68:17, Chelsea)

• Segment Highlights

  • Themed "acts" curated by fashion and costume heavyweights (e.g., Catherine Martin & Miuccia Prada; Colleen Atwood & Sean McGirr; Sandy Powell & Alessandro Michele).
  • Standout moments: Shirley Kurata’s inspired costume recreations with playful props (Starbucks cups, scripts), Diane Keaton’s emotional Annie Hall tribute.

    “It does present like a hologram or like the ghost of Annie Hall just appeared…” (81:00, Lauren)

• Production & Music Choices

  • Odd musical pairings: Nicole Kidman channeling Gilda, but Kendall Jenner walking in Kidman’s Moulin Rouge costume to an Eyes Wide Shut soundtrack.
  • Doja Cat delivers energy; confusion reigns over her Mad Max/Tina Turner look.
  • General consensus: Production was a massive feat, but communication and cohesion needed work.

    “The messaging is murky. It doesn’t feel timely in the way that the Met Gala feels…” (83:45, Chelsea)

• Vision for Improvement

  • Vogue should compel designers to create new, themed looks—like legendary fashion anniversary shows.
  • The hosts call for more exhibition opportunities for the public post-show.

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Industry & Pop Culture News (86:34 – 93:00)

• Marc Jacobs Acquired

  • Authentic Brands Group (which owns estates of major celebs and Barneys NY) buys the brand from LVMH.
  • Lauren notes, “You can get a Barneys New York Tulum apartment,” casting skepticism on ABG’s fashion instincts. (88:14)
  • Hopeful Heaven sub-line will endure; worry about runway show funding.

• Tom Ford’s Third Movie

  • Announced adaptation of Anne Rice’s Cry to Heaven, expected to film in London in 2026.

    “We're off to a great start, but the question remains, which red headed woman will he find to star in this film?” (92:16, Chelsea)

  • Guesses: Julianne Moore, Amy Adams, Sadie Sink.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On David Harbour’s “support”:

  “Your loving husband, he’s really telling on himself with that.” (21:34, Chelsea)

• On Bowie-level glamour:

  “She [Alex Kasani] has a glow from within... like when I saw Tilda Swinton at a dance after a David Bowie concert…” (08:53, Lauren)

• On pop stars and personal growth:

  “Lily Allen somehow actually figured out, like, what makes her different from other artists, what is unique and good about her, and she went hard with that.” (22:37, Chelsea)

• On the purse discovery in ‘Pussy Palace’:

  “It’s too specific to not be real.” (41:01, Chelsea)
  “But there were butt plugs in a Duane Reade bag that you found. Hundred percent.” (41:18, Chelsea)

• On the endless cycle of ‘Vogue World’:

  “You never run out of cities… at some point, you do end up in Texas.” (85:34, Chelsea)

• On the Diane Keaton Annie Hall moment:

  “It does present like a hologram or like the ghost of Annie Hall just appeared…” (81:00, Lauren)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Banter & LA Fashion Events: 00:35 – 13:21
• Lily Allen Album Deep-Dive: 13:21 – 48:07
• Vogue World Hollywood Analysis: 63:30 – 85:12
• Grace Wales Bonner at Hermès: 58:27 – 63:21
• Tom Ford’s New Movie: 90:13 – 92:56
• Marc Jacobs Acquisition: 86:34 – 90:13

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Episode Summary

From a playful, candid look at their own fashion choices, to a forensic pop cultural analysis of Lily Allen’s “auto-fiction” album, Chelsea and Lauren deliver equal parts gossip, critique, and fashion history. Their engagements with LA’s thriving scene and their takes on industry news (from Heritage luxury house appointments to designer musical chairs) reinforce their well-earned voice of authority—and irreverent best-friend banter. Whether drooling over estate sale finds, musing on the “sex addict” trope, or playfully roasting Vogue World, the pair balance caustic wit with genuine cultural insight.

For listeners: If you want a breezy but well-informed take on the best in today’s fashion/celebrity news—with all the bitchy asides, memorable one-liners, and juicy inside baseball you could wish for—this episode is quintessential Every Outfit.

Transcript

[A]

I spent $40,000 on shoes. What's the matter, Morty?

[B]

Coral?

[A]

The Sting turn to buy a little dress. Floral. The Sting.

[B]

Great gowns, Beautiful gowns. Fashion has changed. No, it hasn't.

[A]

Hi, I'm Lauren Garoni.

[B]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless. And we're back yet again.

[A]

That was a sexy voice. Jal, are you trying to seduce the Fuckettes?

[B]

Absolutely not.

[A]

I would ask you how you've been, but I sort of know we've been to several events together. I have been to more events this past week than in the last five months, which isn't really saying much. Same.

[B]

Yeah, I've been going out a lot in the last couple weeks and it feels good. It feels nice to leave the house. It feels. Feel civilized.

[A]

Well, I have exciting news for you, Chelsea. Your favorite restaurant, Genghis Cohen, has reopened.

[B]

I know. I've already gone.

[A]

Oh, God damn it.

[B]

You thought you were going to scoop me.

[A]

I did.

[B]

No, I. I went because the Polyester magazine girls were in town. I was like, what restaurant should I take them to? I was like, this feels like their.

[A]

Vibe gang is Cohen. For those who live in Los Angeles and don't live in Los Angeles, sadly closed. But they were like, we're going to reopen. We will reopen immediately. Takeout. And then we will be open for sit down dinner service. And that's usually a lie. That's usually like, we're never actually going to reopen. But they did. And dare I say the new location, which is just down the street from the old location, looks better than the original Genghis Cohen. Thoughts?

[B]

I don't agree. Oh, I don't necessarily think it looks worse. I mean, we lost the glass bricks and we lost the attached music venue, which is unfortunate because that was a quirky little detail that that restaurant had. But yes, I agree that the vibes of the dining room have been maintained.

[A]

Well, the thing about Genghis Koen is that it has existed for so long that its style was very stylish when it opened in 1983. Went out of style. But now that kind of Memphis maximalist look is very in with retail spaces that it does indeed feel like a restaurant.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like we should say it is a traditional Chinese restaurant. And it does give the vibes of the Chinese restaurant in Freaky Friday.

[A]

As the name would suggest, it is a Chinese restaurant with a Jewish twist to it. And it is also the inspiration for the infamous Seinfeld Chinese restaurant episode.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

I believe there's a drink named after it.

[B]

What else?

[A]

We went to the Women in Film Vogue 100 dinner on Friday night. We were invited to such an event, which I was shocked by.

[B]

We didn't just crash the party.

[A]

No, no, no. We're definitely on the list. I promise.

[B]

That was fun. I've never been to that part of the Beverly Hills hotel before, which is like a private dining room that I assume is what they use for weddings and stuff.

[A]

It was making me reassess my own wedding. I was like, should we have done it here?

[B]

Probably, yeah. I was seated between the legendary astrologer Shannon Nicholas and Tat, who was seated next to Rachel Zo, which was incredible.

[A]

And I was across from you guys next to Mary Beth Barone, the star of my film Sugar Baby. Because, you know, Chelsea, I often forget I am a woman in film.

[B]

See, I'm not a woman in film, but I'm very supportive.

[A]

I thought it was a big compliment that several people during the night came up to you and were like, are you part of the Vogue team? You're giving fashion.

[B]

Chelsea, I did appreciate that.

[A]

I will say you and Tatiana looked incredible. You were both in suiting. I was also in a suit of. Of sort my own nod to Diane Keaton. But I must say that I truly had a menti be getting dressed for this event because I realized I have not been to a fancy event since before I was pregnant and my body is completely different. Like, I have a facsimile of daytime clothing for my new body. But I realized I did not for this now post baby bod. And I was like, oh, my God, Nothing fits. Nothing fits at all. And I tried on an old Armani suit that I had, and it felt like the sisterhood of the traveling pants. Chelsea. I was like, somehow these tuxedo pants I have that were that I got at my skinniest somehow fit me. Oh, my God. But that was in the morning when I hadn't eaten anything. And by the time I tried on the pants again, by the evening, they did not zip up and I had a nervous breakdown and I had to wear different pants.

[B]

Well, you looked great.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You sorted it out.

[A]

I do appreciate that. Can we talk about your new best friend that you met at the event?

[B]

Who?

[A]

Britney Snow.

[B]

Oh, stop. Poor Britney Snow. She was ahead of us in line for the bathroom, and we of course accosted her about hunting wives. But then she was trapped with us, like, in the tiniest, tiniest space. I usually try not to corner celebrities, but Britney Snow was not so Lucky.

[A]

We should explain that it was not a bathroom with multiple stalls. We realized once we entered, it had a singular stall. So everyone was stuck where you had to wash your hands. And I have never seen you like this, Chelsea. Like, you are usually very cool.

[B]

Okay. I was not that bad.

[A]

There was some fangirling, there was some questions. You needed to know her opinion on the Saturday Night Live sketch about the Hunting Wives.

[B]

Yeah. Because I was like, I think they really nailed your character. But she was like, but my character isn't actually supposed to be an alcoholic. I was like, wait, what? She was like, the character just, like, happened to be drunk when she got into whatever that accident. I was like, I fully thought she was a full blown alcoholic that was relapsing.

[A]

I believe she said, and maybe this is Hunty Wives season two tea. But because everyone assumes her character is an alcoholic, she did tell the writers, like, well, I guess you have to write this in now.

[B]

Yeah. We also went to a Swarovski event that was the party for the opening of a fashion exhibition that was curated by friend of the podcast, Alexander Fury. And the exhibit was all about crystals, obviously, and the intersection of high fashion and film. It was super fab.

[A]

It's been quite the week for high fashion and film in Los Angeles.

[B]

It really has been.

[A]

The exhibit is beautiful and extraordinary. Although I was slightly thrown for a loop when I arrived and realized that it was taking place at the old Amoeba Hollywood location. I know the place that I used to get my Criterion DVDs. Now now houses the Marilyn Monroe dress.

[B]

Yeah. The Happy Birthday, Mr. President dress. We also saw a really amazing Adrienne gown worn by Greta Garbo. We saw a Bob Mackie dress that Cher wore on the first episode of the Cher show. During that iconic performance with Elton John and Bette Midler, Cher was there irl posing in front of her dress.

[A]

We spent the entire evening being like, where is Cher? I hope we don't miss Cher. And there's no missing Cher. Because all of a sudden, within a few seconds towards the end of the evening, 30 cameras rushed to one area which was like, right where that Bob Mackie dress was. And it was like, oh, I guess Cher is here. And as soon as she appeared, she disappeared.

[B]

Also, can I just say, her boyfriend is really hot in person.

[A]

Her boyfriend is incredibly attractive. She is also ageless.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, how does she look younger than me? What is going on?

[B]

Yeah. And she had, like, little crystal, like, wallet chains happening. Really good. Very like, Lady Marmalade.

[A]

Also, Someone we were fangirling over, but from afar was Dita Von Teese.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, she's just so perfect in every way, so glamorous.

[A]

She was so ageless.

[B]

Also, I've never seen Alex K in person, and. Jesus Christ. Because lots of models, you see them even when they're in full glam and you're kind of like, eh. Like something's lost between a photo and how they look in person. But she looks insane. She looks retouched in person.

[A]

She has a glow from within that. The only time I've ever experienced that before is when I saw Tilda Swinton when I was a teenager at a dance David Bowie concert. She was somehow seated two rows behind me, and I looked back and I was like, wow, she is glowing from within. And that's how I felt looking at Alex Kasani.

[B]

Tilda Swinton is like one of the most glamorous people I've seen in person. Also, I saw her at a screening of we need to Talk About Kevin. That was at moma, and she came wearing a tuxedo. And I still haven't recovered from that, frankly.

[A]

Clearly.

[B]

But yeah, whatever that dermatologist is or whatever vitamin regime or laser regime she has going on, I need to know what that is.

[A]

I also realized halfway through the Swarovski event that I committed yet another fashion faux pas because I didn't wear the Nicole Kidman AMC suit.

[B]

That was a huge missed opportunity. Also, I had to say that to Alex. I was like, I'm sorry. That should have been in this show. When in Rome.

[A]

I know I should have worn the Michael Kors suit and then gotten up on a pedestal and just stood there and been like, everyone we know this should be a part of this show.

[B]

You would have been the woman of the hour if you showed up in that. I'm sure Alex Cunsadi would come up to you and be like, girl, you look amazing.

[A]

I will say we saw Jeff Goldblum, who I have seen at several fashion events, and he is a very tall man. But I had a weird moment where I was just like, not that tall.

[B]

It's not like he was short. But you're right, he looks like he would be very, very tall. In person.

[A]

He is allegedly 6 5, but we were quite close to him. And I'm like, that's not six five.

[B]

No, he's definitely not six' five. He's not even close to six' five. It was also fun to see the costume designers there. Ariane Phillips, Sandy Powell. They were also at A Willie Shavaria party earlier this week and also what's Her Face? Katherine Martin and Baz Luhrmann. You can't not be starstruck by that.

[A]

And yes, I truly feel like I have seen several times this past week.

[B]

Between that and the Vogue World live stream.

[A]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

Anyway, this is as good a time as any to mention that this podcast is sponsored by the RealReal. The RealReal is the best place to shop and sell authenticated luxury bags, clothing, watches, and so much more. When I say so much more, I mean so much more. I actually think that the home goods section of the RealReal is quite slept on.

[A]

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[B]

I've actually been buying back issues of Vision air on the RealReal lately. You would be shocked by what you can find. But the RealReal is relevant to our conversation because we have both stepped out in some pieces that we've bought there.

[A]

This week I went to the Swarovski event in two pieces that I got from the RealReal. One was an Alaia shirt dress with a long white skirt that I also got from the RealReal.

[B]

And to that Vogue dinner I wore a Donna Karen blazer that I got from the real reel that was actually like $40 and a pair of white Balenciaga pumps that I bought recently and have really been overwearing. I don't know how it took me so long to buy some shoes like that. It's very Carrie Bradshaw.

[A]

Well, you looked great in them and I knew that I had a great outfit because you complimented me and asked where I got my outfit and I said the RealReal.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Who live in Los Angeles, go to the Swarovski Exhibition. It is open until November 3rd, so you have a couple days. Chop, chop.

[A]

All right, should we get into some hot topics or. Really, there's a singular hot topic and her name is Lily Allen.

[B]

Yes. We have to discuss West End Girl, an album that came out of nowhere and changed my relationship with the Duane Reade shopping bag forever. I've been listening to it on repeat all week and we'll get into the intricacies of why it's so good. But I just have to say that it is so refreshing to listen to an album that was designed to be listened to in its entirety, in sequence. That in and of itself is subversive these days.

[A]

Right. Because it doesn't have a particular single. Although I feel like the universe, the Internet has anointed Pussy palace as the single of the album.

[B]

Pussy palace is the single, but there just isn't a music video for it yet.

[A]

Right. I mean, honestly, I think she doesn't need a music video. She just needs to stitch together the two Architectural Digest tours.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's really impressive. This sound that she has cultivated is so specific to her. She's had it from the jump. She's always had the deadpan sense of humor. She's always had the British accent that peaks through and that specific cadence that she has in the whole sort of talk singing thing that she does. But she perfected it with this record.

[A]

Well, you said that this album came out of nowhere, which I agree. It was dropped with little fanfare on Friday. It made an instant impact. But I was surprised to learn that she wrote this album and recorded it in 10 days last December. So she's been holding on to this record for nearly a year, which makes it seem like the timing might be tied to the fact that David Harbour, her now ex husband and who the album is primarily about, or the the dissolution of their marriage, is about to start his press tour for Stranger Things Season 5 next week.

[B]

Best of luck with that.

[A]

We should say that Lily Allen has called this album auto fiction. She has said, I don't think that you could say that. It is all true. I do have some artistic license. But it's safe to say that her and David Harbour, during their marriage, had an open marriage that she did not feel very comfortable about. They had set rules like seeing only seeing people they didn't know, preferably sex workers. And he could not stick to that.

[B]

I know, which makes him such a piece of shit. And I'm sure that things are embellished on this album, but this also seems like a workaround for getting sued. Right. Because wasn't it in the terms of their divorce or something, that they couldn't talk about the marriage or. That's the rumor.

[A]

That's something we heard, yes. You know, she's not naming names, but she's doing everything around that.

[B]

Yeah. All right.

[A]

Do you want to go track by track or do you want to. Because I have some questions that I feel like I would like to answer with you.

[B]

I think we should go track by track, starting with West End Girl. A nod to the theater district in London and also the Pet Shop Boys song. But this song really sets the stage because it's kind of like she's talking about how, you know, she's. She's happy and married and she's excited to be cast in this play that's in London. And she goes to London and then the marriage starts to unravel.

[A]

Well, the song begins with the origin of the infamous Architectural Digest tour of their Brooklyn brownstone, which is. David Harbour is essentially like, do you want it? I will buy it for you. And they get Billy Cotton. Billy Cotton, the interior designer who is name dropped in this song. Very exciting week for him. Would love to see the Google search results. Like, has it peaked in the last week for Billy Cotton?

[B]

It's so smart, because right off the gate, she's addressing the fact that that embarrassing Architectural Digest video exists.

[A]

Yes. And does answer the question. I was wondering when I watched it, which is like, who paid for this? This seems very expensive. It does at times when you watch that Architectural Digest tour, that they were possibly bullied by Billy Cotton to have this, like, very maximalist apartment with rooms that do not match at all, including a bathroom with carpeting.

[B]

I hope they weren't bullied by the decorator. But I do think that this house was probably largely Lily's vision. Just because it seems like somewhere that a British woman would live versus somewhere that an American man would.

[A]

Very true. It does look quite different from David Harbour's apartment that we saw in a 2019 Architectural Digest tour.

[B]

Yeah. And having rewatched, I didn't rewatch the tour of his Pussy Palace. I did rewatch the tour with Lily Allen. And it is wild. Like, the degree that he takes the lead on that video. And I do think it's probably because he paid for everything.

[A]

Well, I also rewatched the tour, and I gotta say, from the jump. Too many bits. He is doing too many bits during that Architectural Digest tour.

[B]

He is.

[A]

Well, my question to you is, was the album potentially a real estate scam? Because we then learned, like, literally a day after the album dropped, we learned that Lily Allen is selling the townhouse.

[B]

Not before taking pictures in the townhouse to promote this album, which is so genius. Also, we didn't touch upon the COVID art, which I'm obsessed with. I forget the artist that did it. But a painting as a cover, a timeless and tasteful choice. It worked for Joni Mitchell, it worked for Joanna Newsome, it worked for Lorde, and now it's working for Lily Allen. Also, the fact that she's wearing this blue and white polka dot puffer coat, that print is now forever associated with this album. It's like she did the closest thing that she could to Charlie in terms of branding without overtly copying that.

[A]

The artist, by the way, is Nieves Gonzalez.

[B]

It's so cool. Also, I guess Leith Clark did the styling and the overall creative for the album cover and the promotional images and hopefully whatever music video is coming out, which is such a good choice because both her and Lily Allen have historically been preoccupied with that girly dolly bird look. And I feel like she's the perfect person to figure out how Lily Allen should mature that a little bit.

[A]

Well, she got what she needed from that apartment. And for $8 million, that townhouse in Carroll Gardens can be yours.

[B]

So in the end of West End Girl, we get a little glimpse into the phone conversation. Like, David Harbour obviously called her and was like, I need to fuck someone. And she's like, okay, that makes me really sad, but fine. Whatever you need, babe.

[A]

Well, not before there's a conversation they have when she is given the lead in this play. And he's like, you're gonna have to audition. Because we should say that David Harbour, in addition to being in Stranger Things, he is a theater actor and I'm sure felt a certain way when his wife, who's primarily a singer, was straight up offered a role on the West End. And in these lyrics, which, again, it's hard to be like, well, yeah, there's some artistic license, but it's like, I'm pretty sure there was a conversation where he was like, no, you're gonna have to audition. And I think he was jealous of her acting ambitions and her success. She was nominated for an Olivier Award, which is the United Kingdom equivalent of a Tony, because a Twitter account called decadescrolling posted an old Instagram story from Lily Allen's Instagram showing the flowers that David Harbour sent her on the opening night of her theater debut, the note said, my ambitious wife, these are bad luck flowers. Because if you get reviewed well in this play, you will get all kinds of awards and I will be miserable.

[B]

Your loving husband, he's really telling on himself with that.

[A]

What in the Dax Shepard school of husbandry is this.

[B]

And see, this is why he then had to fuck a wardrobe assistant. But anyway, we'll get to that in a moment. So then we go into ruminating, which is basically she starts spiraling about the open relationship in sleep. She has a very Charlotte York line where she's like, you've made me your Madonna. I want to be your whore. And this is the first of the Billie Eilish adjacent songs on this. This record, I would say.

[A]

Right. I mean, there are definitely some Lily Allen isms.

[B]

Well, it's a reciprocal relationship. Right. Because Lily inspired Billy and then Billy inspired Lily. And we know this because Billie Eilish was on her podcast, so she's clearly a fan.

[A]

Yeah, but I can't see Billie Eilish writing a song titled Non Monogamous.

[B]

True. And see. And that's what's so great, because Lily Allen somehow actually figured out, like, what makes her different from other artists, what is unique and good about her, and she went hard with that. Whereas I feel like a lot of pop stars at a certain point, when you're a certain amount of years into your career, it's like they can't see the forest for the trees anymore and they can't figure out what makes them unique. Lady Gaga also figured this out with Mayhem this year for sure.

[A]

And I think our criticism of Taylor's last album is the need to constantly be making music, making music, making music. I think the surprise and the delight of this album is it really felt like Lily Allen had departed from music permanently, was doing other things, you know, as we said, was starting to act, had a podcast, and she made this album because it was needed, there was an urgency, there was a reason to make this album.

[B]

And also in terms of the content, a lot of people are in open marriages or in open ish marriages, especially celebrities, because A, they're constantly surrounded with people that are trying to fuck, and B, they're touring or they're on films where they're away for four months at a time, six months at a time, where an open ish relationship just makes more sense. Yet no one would ever admit to being in one publicly. She just. By being the first one through the door, she actually didn't get shot. She got rewarded for It. Because I think that a lot of the themes on this record and the things that she's talking about are things that a lot of people relate to.

[A]

I also think, you know, obviously, this album has been compared to Beyonce's Lemonade. It does have that same gossipy Easter egg quality, which allows the audience to kind of piece together what this narrative was or what happened when in their relationship.

[B]

Totally. Well, in my lifetime, there have been three major celebrity breakup albums. It's Jagged Little Pill, It's Lemonade, and it's West End Girl. All about famous men, you know, celebrity couples.

[A]

Men who are with women who are too good for them, who cheat on them.

[B]

Although, you know, I'm sure Lily Allen is a freak, too. And remember, like, when her book came out, she admitted to, I believe, cheating on her previous husband with a string of female sex workers, which I actually thought was cool, because, again, that's something that's more common than people think, but something that no one ever admits to publicly, especially a woman.

[A]

Right. And there's been a minor wave of backlash to this album where people are like, well, Lily Allen cheated on her husband, and, you know, Lily Allen assaulted Zoe Kravitz at a party. And all of these like, quote, unquote, cancelable offenses come from Lily Allen's own memoir.

[B]

Okay? But the Zoe Kravitz thing is pretty unfortunate and sucks for Zoe, because Lily Allen wrote in her book, like, I had this wild night out with Zoe Kravitz, and we ended up making out. And then I heard that she also hooked up with ASAP Rocky that same night. And then Zoe went on Watch what Happens Live, and someone asked her about it, like, oh, did she tell you she was going to write this in her book? And she was like, no. Not only did she not tell me, but she basically attacked me. I did not want to make out with this gross drunk bitch. I imagine that's what she's thinking in her head.

[A]

Well, she's on Watch what Happens Live with Eddie Redmayne. I think they were promoting that offshoot Harry Potter film. And Eddie Redmayne clearly has no context for this. So when Andy Cohen brings it up, Eddie Redmayne's like, oh, Lily Allen's the best. And Zoe Kravitz is like, no, she's not. She's like, if you mean make out with Lily Allen, if you mean that she attacked me, then, yeah, she attacked me. And Eddie Redmayne goes, oh, okay, so we don't like Lily Allen.

[B]

Yeah, that is an unfortunate thing.

[A]

People have also Pointed out the fact that she had an affair with one of the Gallaghers, whichever one was married to Nicole Appleton, and it happened on a plane. And he begged her not to tell anyone because he was still married. And again, these are all things that she nakedly confessed in her memoir. Yeah, the Zoe Kravitz thing. Not great. Anyway, back to this album.

[B]

Then we get into tennis and Madeline, which I think of as being one song, even though they are two.

[A]

Because in tennis we learn about Madeline. Madeline. Madeline.

[B]

Well, she says Madeline. No, she says. Well, she says Madeline. Is it like Madeline, like the little orphan? Like the fab little orphan girl?

[A]

My grandmother's name is Madeline, so I will say, yeah, these.

[B]

These two songs are really good. I think Tennis is one of the more heartbreaking songs on the record.

[A]

Well, Madeline is the Joanne of our time.

[B]

Also, anyone that's ever been cheated on, I think can relate to the kind of mental spiraling that she does in this particular song.

[A]

Yeah, it just.

[B]

It feels too real. Madeline has since been revealed as a 34 year old costume designer named Natalie Tippett. Who.

[A]

Okay, can we get into this? Of like, how she was revealed, revealed? This comes from a Daily Mail article. The Daily Mail clearly paid her, but I don't know how they figured that out.

[B]

Well, this came out way before the album. Remember there were Daily Mail articles that came out maybe like six months ago that said that he had cheated with a costume designer. Since I know someone that works on Stranger Things, I immediately tried to get tea, but there was no tea. Because this chick was not working on Stranger Things.

[A]

No. They say that they met on a different Netflix thing, a Netflix film called we have a ghost in 2021. Which I think this strengthens my point that there is something about streaming films that just like Men in Black, just a light flashes after you watch it.

[B]

It's so true, Madeline. The song does have what seems like a voice memo or a text that. The rumor is that this is exactly what she sent Lily Allen.

[A]

Yikes.

[B]

Which isn't a bad text. You kind of like her. You know, the mistress. You're like, at least she's not a.

[A]

And also, Lily Allen isn't villainizing this person because she feels for her. Because she realizes David harbor probably said, we're in an open marriage. Like, I don't love Lily. I love you.

[B]

She is exposing this woman with this song, but how was she to know that it would become a zeitgeist? Feisty as it has become? Like, if you're Lily Allen, you're not Expecting to have a smash record at this point in your career?

[A]

Well, the Daily Mail went back to this costume designer and, you know, they played it off of like, we have an exclusive reaction, but this woman's reaction is like, of course I've heard the song, but I have a family and things to protect. I have a two and a half year old daughter and I understand this is going on. It's a little bit scary for me. I don't feel comfortable talking about it at the moment. It's like, like, yeah, that's a normal reaction to have. Although my, like, tabloid conspiratorial brain, when I heard that she has a two and a half year old daughter, I'm like, oh, no, did he impregnate her?

[B]

I know, but this is also the song where we get the lyric, we had an arrangement. Be discreet and don't be blatant. There had to be payment and had to be with strangers. So, like, very simple, straightforward guidelines, boundaries for this. Right?

[A]

You expect a straight man to follow the rules, Chelsea?

[B]

Absolutely not. So next up, we have Relapse, My favorite song on this record, which is just about the fact that she's afraid she's going to relapse. Lily Allen has been sober for a while now. I think close to a decade, something like that. She has some time. But I love this song so much. I love the way that the I Need a Drink is looped because it really does mimic that intrusive thought that you have when you do just need a drink.

[A]

Yeah. And there is something heartbreaking about this album, as I feel like even if you didn't really fuck with David Harbour or Lily Allen, because they met during the pandemic and then they had a very cute Vegas elopement during the pandemic, like, you couldn't help but have a bit of a parasocial relationship with their relationship. Like, I don't watch Stranger Things, but I always remember this Jimmy Kimmel interview that David Harbour did after they got married, where his. His impulse to marry Lily Allen, or at least propose, was the fact that he was with her daughters, became his stepdaughters. And the younger one didn't know what to call him and because his name's David, and she accidentally said dad. And the older one was like, he's not our dad. He's just. Just some guy in our life. And he was like, okay, I gotta marry their mother.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And then he did this. Chelsea.

[B]

I know. I will say Lily Allen has had two of the best bridal looks I've Ever seen both weddings? The first one, I believe was Chanel Couture, because remember, there was that whole phase where she was like a Karl Lagerfeld muse and a Chanel brand ambassador. I don't know what the. What the second wedding look was, but it was incredibly chic. It was a mid century wedding look.

[A]

Yes. It was a. I believe it was bought off the rack, but it was.

[B]

She went to Happy Isles or something.

[A]

Yes. It's a vintage Dior dress.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Or skirt suit. They all got in and out together as a family afterwards. I mean, how could you not fall in love with this?

[B]

A divorce like this would really, really fucking suck with kids that age.

[A]

Well, yeah, this is the second divorce these children are experiencing.

[B]

So now we're finally at Pussy Palace. The centerpiece of the album.

[A]

Ooh. Do we get to answer my question, which is, is David Harbour a sex addict? A sex addict?

[B]

I'm going with no.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and look, I'm not saying sex addiction doesn't exist. We just talked about Elizabeth Gilbert's book on a recent VIP episode.

[A]

If David Harbour is a sex addict, he's a sex addict in the way that David Duchovny is a sex addict, which is like he needed some excuse as to why he would cheat on the exquisite Ta Leoni so many times.

[B]

I know. And actually south park did a really, really great episode in the wake of the Tiger woods cheating scandal that roasted David Duchovny, Bill Clinton, Charlie Sheen, I think also. And their thesis was basically like, these are not sex addicts. These are famous guys with money. And anyone that had money and was famous could find themselves in this situation. And David Harbour is someone who, before Stranger Things, wasn't famous. So he kind of had late in life fame. By the time that he had married Lily Allen, he couldn't have been famous for more than four or five years. Right.

[A]

Well, you just got into Stranger Things, but it's a confusing show because somehow it's straddled several presidencies and yet they've only made what, like 40 episodes of this thing?

[B]

I have no idea. Because it comes out so infrequently that I forget that it exists until there's a new season. But I just don't understand why David Harbour, like, this is a show about the children. That's why we watch Stranger Things, because we give a. About the kids. And of course, we also give a shit about Winona Ryder. How David Harbour came to be the primary male lead on this show is something that baffles me. Especially when, to me, the standout heterosexual man is Matthew Modine.

[A]

Matthew Modine is built in the mode of straight man you love. I mean, he's tall, slender, perhaps even more slender and more white haired than Ted Danson.

[B]

Yeah. And to my point about, like, why is Ted Danson not modeling? Why the fuck is Matthew Modine not modeling? Because he also has the clout of being in Full Metal Jacket. In what universe? You know, like, if Jim Jarmusch is in a Saint Laurent campaign, like, why not Matthew Modine? What's going on, guys?

[A]

Yeah, I think the core of this issue is I don't think we should let character actors be famous. Well, no, I don't think that we should allow character actors to think that they're hot in their 40s, because this is what happens. Although perhaps David Harbour has always been a sus person because friend of the pod, Evan Ross Katz, sent us a Daily mail article from 2015 about how a woman jumped to her death from his apartment. Now, we should say he was not there at the time. He was promoting the film Black Mass, but she did jump to her death from his apartment.

[B]

Speaking from personal experience, it is possible to find yourself in a romantic entanglement with someone that is like, certifiably crazy. However, I've also identified that there's a certain kind of guy, like a certain kind of straight man that is attracted to an emotionally unstable woman. And I'm not saying that that's Lily Allen necessarily. I mean, we know that she's had had mental health issues, substance abuse issues, whatever. But I think guys are into these kind of women because they're good in bed, because they're crazy. Not saying that that was the case in either of these situations. I'm just saying I've known guys like this.

[A]

Oh, of course. I've also been on record by saying that actors are cuckoo bananas. I have many friends who have dated actors. It has always ended horribly in bizarre ways. But at the very least, we do know, unless this is artistic license, that Lily Allen found a shoebox full of handwritten letters from brokenhearted women wishing that David Harbour could be better. And that I believe to be true. And back to your Winona Ryder point. That's the other. That's like the third thought I had while listening to this album of like. Because Winona Ryder is kind of above the pop cultural zeitgeist. So does she know about this album? And I feel like if she did, she would give. She would just look at David Harbour. Just disappointed.

[B]

Yeah. I wonder what the Vibes are going to be like on the press tour. If you've listened to the show before, you know that I love a good perfume, but you know what I absolutely hate? Over committing to a fragrance. I cannot tell you how many bottles of perfume that I bought that I never, ever finished. But thankfully, Micro Perfumes has found a solution for this. They decant designer fragrances directly from the original bottle into sample vials and travel sprays, which you can buy for a fraction of the original retail price.

[A]

Yeah, imagine going to a bar and all you want is a shot of Patron, but they force you to buy the entire bottle and suddenly you're $200 in the hole.

[B]

That's exactly what buying fragrances is usually like. But it doesn't have to be that way. We actually got to pick some fragrances from the site to try out. I'm curious what you got?

[A]

Well, as soon as I saw that they had Hermes's Barania, I had to try it because I read that it has an olfactory emotion that is warm and sensual. And who doesn't want to be that?

[B]

You're going for warm and sensual?

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

I got Rose of no Man's Land by Byredo, which I actually do have a bottle of this as well. But I travel a lot, so the travel spray is convenient for me. I also got tat Lolabo's TE Noir 20, which is a very sexy scent. It smells like tea, but hot. Ooh.

[A]

I suppose this is as good a time as any to say that Micro perfumes fragrances are 100% authentic. They are not dupes. They have over 500 scents to choose from and the shipping is fast. Also, unlike so many of their competitors, you're not locked into a monthly subscription. You can get a new designer perfume from brands like Louis Vuitton, Diptyque, Jo Malone and so many more.

[B]

Louis Vuitton is a really good choice because those fragrances are so expensive. Like, some of them are upwards of $500 a bot, which I'm pretty sure only Pharrell himself can afford. But if you look at the Micro Perfumes website, you can buy travel sprays of most Louis Vuitton fragrances for less than $50, which is amazing.

[A]

Stop overspending and find your new signature scent for up to 60% [e-mail] outfit. That's microperfumes.com outfit for up to 60% off. Microperfumes real scents. Zero regrets. So another question that I had is, is the Pussy palace the West Village apartment that David Harbour Showed off to architectural digest in 2019. Because there is a lyric where Lily Allen, I believe it's in Madeline, where she's like, did you. I'm still not sure that you didn't fuck in our home. But Pussy Palace, I believe is her going to David Harper's apartment, which I guess he kept, which, you know, Lily Allen thought was a dojo. The ly calling it a pussy palace and she thought it was a dojo is just inherently campy.

[B]

It's very Lily Allen. But of course, the main revelation in this song is the lyric about a Duane Reade bag with the handles tied. Sex toys, butt plugs, lube inside.

[A]

Well, hundreds of Trojans. At least he was keeping it safe. Chell.

[B]

Okay, but it's so gross, straight man, to keep those things in a Duane Reade bag with the handles tied. Like, the only time a woman would do, like, tie something up in a Duane Reade bag like that is if the bag is full of garbage. You know what I mean?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

But it's such evocative imagery and it's too specific to not be real.

[A]

This is what I found funny when Lily Allen was like, no, no, no. I mean, not all of it is true. Some of it is fiction. It's like a lot of this stuff is way too specific.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not to take away her skill as a lyricist, but. But there were butt plugs in a Duane Reade bag that you found. Hundred percent.

[B]

Yeah. And again, it's also so straight, man, to like, not even, like, figure out a good hiding place for your Duane Reade bag.

[A]

Did you have this thought while listening to the song? Because I did too. Because it seems like what Lily Allen is explaining is that David Harbour had his own place or perhaps kept his old apartment even though they had a townhouse together. I was like, isn't this kind of the plot of Sex and the City 2 where Carrie and goes to her apartment to write? And then Big's like, what if we just had, like a weekend off from our marriage every once in a while? Like, it does feel like that's maybe how the dynamic started. Okay.

[B]

But I was actually thinking, it's crazy that in all six seasons of Sex and the City, none of the girls ever got cheated on by any of their boyfriends. It only happened in the first movie with Miranda and Steve.

[A]

Yeah. And it is also puzzling. I mean, not to go back to end just like that. But if you wanted to be relevant and talk about things that are going on in modern day marriages, as you were saying, Open marriages are a thing.

[B]

The closest sex in the city approximation to this is the Samantha and Richard situation, which was also an open relationship.

[A]

Right. More of season five when they tried to make it work.

[B]

Now we're at 4chan Stan.

[A]

The.

[B]

The revelation here is that he. She finds out that he bought someone a handbag at Burgdorf's. And I feel like it may be someone different from Madeline.

[A]

Oh, there are multiple women.

[B]

Because she's also wondering, like, is this a famous person? Because I guess he's not telling her who this is.

[A]

Well, yeah, because he clearly thinks that she bought the whole, like, yeah, I'll sleep with sex workers. That's fine. Which now I'm remembering. That is also kind of a plot line from. From Man. Just like that season three where. Remember when Charlotte thinks that Harry maybe is buying a bag for someone else and then we realize he just has a buyer at Bergdorf's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If only David Harbour had seen that episode. He could have done that line to Lily Allen.

[B]

Non monogamummy. No huge revelations here. No, but it's. It's one of the songs like Dallas Major, that's kind of about trying to be game. Navigating online dating, potentially. Also in the middle of those songs, we have Just Enough, which a straight up Billie Eilish song. This one, a beautiful song.

[A]

It's a strong album. I think it is in the conversation for album of the year. It is also, which has been in the conversation recently, a no Skips album.

[B]

Yeah, it is a no Skips album. I really like Dallas Major and that's a song that a lot of people can relate to because more broadly, it's about dating apps and how annoying they are and how dehumanizing it is. Especially as she's saying for, like, a woman that's nearly 40, with two kids, in a sus. Open relationship. Open marriage with David Harbour.

[A]

Well, this is what I will say maybe is the artistic license. I don't believe that Lily Allen is actually on Tinder.

[B]

No, absolutely not.

[A]

We should say for those that don't remember this, and maybe. I don't know if you know this, Chelsea, but David Harbour and Lily Allen met on Raya.

[B]

Yeah. So she's probably back on Raya. Or there's like an even more elite dating app now. There must be.

[A]

There's not. I mean, I just listened to Andy Cohen on Call Her Daddy and he's like, I'm on everything. So there is not a more exclusive dating app app. Which is why we're introducing the every outfit Dating.

[B]

Then we have Beg for Me, which is kind of about the fact that, like, he's not sexually into her because he's fucking all of these other women. He's trash. Great sample of that if you Want Me to Stay song that I believe Nicki Minaj also sampled. And then it closes out with Let yout Win and Fruity Loop, which are both songs that are basically like, this marriage is over. There's no moment of redemption at the end. The way there is on Lemonade, where like, every song is like, fuck you, Jay. And then we have all night.

[A]

Yeah. Because immediately afterwards, she was like, and now come see us tour together on. On the run 2. So I guess my last question is, is this marriage worth it and all this pain if this album came out of it?

[B]

That's a question only Lily Allen could answer. But I'm glad that. That there is this silver lining for her in all of this. Although from what she's described in interviews, because she's given very revealing interviews to Perfect magazine, to British Vogue about this, where she says, like, that she was so up and so afraid that she was going to relapse that she checked herself into some kind of rehab or psychiatric facility. So in reality, I think the situation was much more brutal than this. This album suggests. Because while it has sad moments, it's not a breakup album in the way that, like, PJ Harvey's Rid of Me is a breakup album, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or, like, you know, you think about, like, Marian Faithful's broken English or something. I think she actually really lightened things on West End Girl.

[A]

Yeah. And she's discussed the fact that she has. She had enough distance from it to make it a proper piece of art and give us honestly what the culture wants, which is an album and a breakup album that reads and sounds like a tabloid. Like, yes, give us the gossip.

[B]

Yeah, spill your own tea. And also, I think that Lily Allen has a very different fame level in the United States than she does in the uk. Like, the tabloids here don't give a shit about her. Maybe now they do. Even, like, when her first album came out, even though it was a pop album, I always considered her to be more of an indie artist, you know? Like, that album in the United States was huge for people that read Pitchfork and Stereo Gum and the music blogs of that era. But I don't think it was, like, hugely popular in the way that it was in Europe. You know?

[A]

I mean, this album is incredibly popular. The streams on Spotify have only increased every preceding day. That this album has come out. Like, I looked at a. A Twitter account called Chart Data that says that the streams for West End girl is up 83% versus release day. So it's building and building, I'm sure. Much to David Harbour's horror.

[B]

I know. And because she dropped it with so little fanfare, now I think there's going to be real, real excitement when she starts performing on late night shows. Or she just announced that she's touring in the uk. Hopefully she will tour here as well. I'm sure she will. Yeah.

[A]

Because it's someone that, you know, I like the Lily Allen singles when I was in college or whenever they came out. But, like, I will see her on this tour.

[B]

Oh, for sure. And with the UK shows, they've announced it like she's performing the album top to bottom, which is exactly what we want. And then come do an encore with, like, you and the singles that we love.

[A]

Absolutely. I love this ascension of Lily Allen.

[B]

And also, I mean, it's a redemption arc.

[A]

What does David Harbour have? He just has the last season of Stranger Things and then he. He does have a gig working in Marvel movies, but. But I think they tried to make a movie career work with him and it did not because it didn't take. You know why, Chell? Because he's a character actor and that's fine. I love him as a character actor. Don't love what he did to Lily Allen.

[B]

Don't love.

[A]

But I'll watch him be, you know, the fifth lead in a Martin Scorsese crime drama. Yeah, well, I will be keeping abreast of who ultimately buys the. The Cobble Hill brownstone.

[B]

The sad thing is that no one will keep it as is. No, not one person would keep it as is. If you have enough money to buy that house, like, what are the odds that you also have that sort of highly specific taste?

[A]

Well, I hope she gets what she's asking for it. Did we mention that she got the house and the divorce? Or at least that's what we've heard. So this is pure profit for her.

[B]

God bless. I also love that she's been talking about the fact that she got a boob job in all of her interviews.

[A]

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[B]

Moving on to fashion things. I meant to talk about this at the top of the show, but. But I've been meaning to tell you. I went to the most insane estate sale a couple of weeks ago. I was like lying in bed on Saturday morning and tat was on TikTok and you know, she saw one of those like TikTok estate sale accounts and she showed it to me because it was like this person that had like all of these rare fashion photography books. It was in Beverly Hills. So I was like, oh my God, we have to go now. Only when I set foot in the house do I realize I'm in Peggy Moffat's house.

[A]

House.

[B]

I'm sorry, Peggy Moffat's fucking house. Because there are all these portraits of Peggy Moffat everywhere. And I realized that I am in the Beverly Hills mansion that she shared with the photographer William Claxton, who took a lot of the famous photos of her, but was more famous for being like a, a jazz photographer, like a very, very iconic jazz photographer. So it was more jazz pieces people actually there than fashion people. I don't think they really advertised it with her on the top of the bill.

[A]

I was going to say leave it to a TikTok estate sale influencer to leave out the fact that this is Peggy Moffat's house.

[B]

Literally. So crazy. So I got like, the craziest shit. I got this like, amazing framed poster from some William Claxton exhibit in Japan. And, like, Peggy was on the poster. I got their copy of the iconic, like, Rudy Gernreich book that they did together. He took all the photos. The craziest thing that I got was probably like, I don't know if you've ever seen the movie let's Get Lost. It's a documentary that Bruce Webber did about Chet Baker. William Claxton's photos of Chet Baker when he was young and hot and like, not a raging heroin addict were used in that movie. And on the poster and I bought, they were selling like a set of four. They were like $40 each. They're like huge 40 inch posters for that film. I have no idea what I'm gonna do with them.

[A]

Well, you're gonna get them framed at Framebridge.

[B]

Yeah, I'll either get them framed at Framebridge or I'll sell them as a set. I don't know. I just like, obviously couldn't leave them there, but they are astoundingly beautiful.

[A]

I am shocked by this for multiple reasons. The main one is I am off estate sales because estate sale TikTok influencers have ruined them.

[B]

But not all. Like, I didn't wait in line. I walked straight in on the first day and there was everything that I saw in the TikTok that I wanted, like, in terms of the books that I got, like, I also got her copy of Diana Vreeland's autobiography. I got some weird, like, space age catch all tat. Got one of William Claxton's Oscar de la Renta. Like, a gorgeous blazer that still had like a plane ticket from the 80s in the pocket.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Really amazing. So that, that is, like, lit a fire within me for estate sales. And I now realize that I need to be like, I don't need to be one of these bitches that goes to the farmer's market on the weekends with my little trolley. I can be an estate sale girl.

[A]

I will join you on this journey. I'll strap the baby to my chest and we'll go.

[B]

Because also, like, sadly, like, all the major people are starting to die. And this town is full of people that worked in the entertainment industry or in other creative industries and they just had. They have amazing.

[A]

I did talk Shit on TikTok estate sale influencers. But there is one, I think her name is Fiona Quinn. And in going to estate sales, she's become radicalized about preserving the architecture of these mid century homes. Like, she will not take her foot off of Chris Pratt's neck because she went to an estate sale for this amazing mid century home in the Palisades that Chris Pratt bought with his wife. And they demolished the house and are building some, you know, modern farmhouse McMansion. They bought that house because it's like down the street, the street from Maria Shriver. So, like, this radicalized her. And so now she like goes to estate sales, keeps track of the homes and then shows when they've been McMansionified or as someone called it, white hospital box house.

[B]

Wow, this girl is doing God's work. Someone needs to be keeping track of that kind of shit. Also this week I went to a re see of the Dario Vitali Versace collection that I'm so obsessed with it. Was it just one eye?

[A]

I know you and like everyone else I know was there looking at this collection, I feel very jealous, very left out.

[B]

It's so good. It's so, I mean, it's so expensive. Like you could pre order stuff there if you wanted to, but I'm like, girl, I don't. I don't have that kind of coin. I'll be getting my vintage Versace from the real. Real. Thank you. And trying to recreate the look. But it was actually even gayer in person, which I found shocking. Like, when I looked at the, the Runway photos, I did not notice that, like, you know, all of those pants that were like unzipped to sort of reveal the Versace underwear, they were like held together by rings. Oh, literal rings that had like the Medusa logo, like on the studs.

[A]

So it's a very forward collection is what you're saying.

[B]

Very forward, very good. Just so exciting. Really exciting.

[A]

And, you know, if we had $7,000 to buy a pair of Versace jeans, we probably wouldn't. There's.

[B]

We wouldn't even be able to buy them because they'd be like $13,000. I also saw the Louise Trotter Bottega stuff in person, which. That's wild because that, I mean, that shit's expensive. Like, I saw a coat that was $350,000 just casually on the rack.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yeah, it was alligator, to be fair.

[A]

That's a price tag that I'm actually even scared to look at it.

[B]

No, I know. It's like seeing A house, like just on a hangar. But I will say those fiber optic pieces in person are really, really stunning and crazy and seem like something that should just go straight from the Runway to a museum. And I'm sure they will.

[A]

How much is that? A reasonable $18,000.

[B]

I didn't ask, ask for a price on that stuff. I, I should have, but yeah, not cheap. Although those rubber clogs that they made are like, I don't know, eleven hundred dollars, which is probably like the cheapest thing that you could buy to sort of buy into the Louise Trotter of it all. They're really cool looking.

[A]

That is the going rate for a luxury designer shoe now, isn't it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, speaking of things that will be exquisite but unbelievably expensive, Hermes has a new designer, a new menswear designer.

[B]

Thank God. We often talk about bad news on this show, but like something good has actually happened which is that Grace Wales Bonner has gotten this job.

[A]

Although did you notice that she won't be making her debut until January 2027?

[B]

Give the girl a minute. She is the first black woman to be at the helm of a major luxury brand, which is, is very sad, upsetting, upsetting, but certainly a move in the right direction. And I've always really loved her because straight out of the gate, like when she first started showing, she was doing a silhouette that was so different than what everyone else was doing because everyone, like she started her career at the time where street wear was really exploding and everything was oversized and she sort of came out like putting guys in the these very tailored, skinny, high waisted pants or like a pant with flares and then like a little cropped jacket that was just like so chic. And then she also of course like adds all these sort of Afro Caribbean elements that makes the look of her clothes very different than what other people are doing. I actually thought about her when I saw the Chanel collection because she too has been doing sort of takes on the Chanel suit that I wouldn't say are identical. I would say that there's some parallel thinking and if you go back to look at her collections, you'll, you'll see what I'm talking about.

[A]

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how her style and aesthetic transposes onto Hermes, which menswear wise doesn't really have a personality to it.

[B]

Yeah, I agree.

[A]

Like I can't in my head form a picture of what the Hermes man looks like.

[B]

I can't either. But it's perfect. Because she's so good at tailoring. But she's also just a cooler designer.

[A]

And it seems like on the clothing front that has been an objective of Hermes. Clearly they make very desirable bags. People buy the shoes, the accessories if they can afford and are able to buy them. But. But it seems like they've been making a concerted effort to bring in cooler designers. They have the former road designer designing womenswear. Now they have her designing menswear.

[B]

Yeah, people love. I forget what her name is, but people love the Hermes womenswear designer. I just don't get it. It's just not for me. But it definitely is for someone. And I know that those collections have resonated with a lot of fashion critics. Critics and stuff. But to me this is like the most exciting thing that Hermes has done since like bringing on Gaultier.

[A]

That was a good era. It's also exciting because she had said to System magazine back in 2019 that she would be interested in working with Hermes.

[B]

It's. It's fate. Also, I do think that her ongoing collaboration with Adidas is one of the best designer collaborations that she's ever, that they've ever done. Tat has a few of the pieces, they're really good because she figured out, she figured out the right proportion for those tracksuits, which is again, having it be more high waisted, a longer, leaner leg, a flare, a sort of 70s type Adidas look that's just so chic and appealing.

[A]

Yeah. No word if she's going to continue that design collaboration. I assume she will keep her eponymous design label as well.

[B]

I hope so. I'm sure she will and I'm sure it will do really well now. Like, I'm sure JW Anderson will benefit from this Dior appointment.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

But yeah, good for her. I feel like I've been following her career for longer than most because back when I worked at V Files, it was my job to look at all the Gretchen collections from the different fashion schools. We'd pick our favorite like three or four designers and like give them a group show at New York Fashion Week. And I remember seeing her collection in like 2014 and I of course reached out and tried to get her. Did not succeed. One of two people that said no. But I also wasn't surprised because even just like with her central Saint Martin's collection, like it had already generated so much buzz. She was getting a lot of press, not just in the uk, but outside of the uk And I think there was just a real excitement about what she was doing and everyone was, you know, chomping at the bit for her to. To start a brand. So it's really cool to see this happen for her within a decade, basically, of starting her career.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, for fashion, that is a meteoric rise. All right, should we get into the thing that I'm sure people want us to discuss, which is Vogue World Hollywood?

[B]

Yes. This is a continuation of, of Lauren and I's annual segment, which we call what is Vogue World. This is the fourth consecutive year that we have done this.

[A]

But here's the thing, Chelsea. People have caught on. Frankly, we're hacks to ask this question because literally the New York Times style section article about Vogue World Hollywood begins with Mindy Keeling going, so what is this thing?

[B]

It's true. This is the year that this conversation really broke through to the mainstream.

[A]

I think we have our answer. It is a charity event. They pick a different charity cause every time. This time it was to benefit the Costume Designers Guild and the Entertainment Community fund, of which 100% of the ticket proceeds would be going to helping costume designers who were affected by the Palisades fire. Question mark.

[B]

I think it was just people in the entertain entertainment industry.

[A]

Well, I went to several different sources and Vogue is like, well, 100% of the ticket proceeds will go to the Entertainment Community Fund, which is focused on supporting costume community professionals. But then the New York Times was like, it's going to help costume designers in Los Angeles area who lost their homes in the disaster.

[B]

Great. We love that. And they raised like over $4 million. So that's amazing.

[A]

I love Nutrafol. If you've listened to this podcast over the years, you know this to be true. They've been with me with their women's formula and now I'm taking their postpartum formula. And when I get older, I will transition to their women's balance formula. Even Paul takes their men's formula. Well, we don't leave the house much these days on account of having a baby, but when we do, people comment on how great our hair looks. Maybe that's why Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people. You can feel great about what you're putting into your body. Since Nutrafol hair growth supplements are backed by peer review studies and NSF content certified, the gold standard in third party certification for supplements. Adding Nutrafol into your daily routine is simple. Purchase online, no prescription required. Automated deliveries and free shipping keep you on track. Plus with a Nutrafol subscription you can save up to 20%. You'll have access to free one on one naturopathic doctor consults to support you on your hair growth journey and a Headspace Meditation membership is included. See Thicker, Stronger, Faster Growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com and enter promo Code Outfit Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spell spelled n u t r a f o l.com promo code outfit that's Neutrophil Promo Code Outfit and then that gets to the second part of what is Vogue World. And Vogue World is a money making event for Vogue because they raised $30 million or the event generated $30 million overall.

[B]

Wait, what?

[A]

Yes, this is where it got.

[B]

Why did I hear this $4 million or 4.5 or something was the figure I heard?

[A]

No, no, no, you are correct. So the New York Times is where it gets confusing. Says two things. The event raised 4.5 million for the entertainment community fund, but the event is expected to generate more than $30 million overall, which I assume come from the brand sponsorships that they brought in.

[B]

Right. I think the money was made through a combination of selling tickets for tens of thousands of dollars to random rich people. Although couldn't have been that many of them. Like it wasn't like there was a ton of people at that show. You know, it's not like it was like a Chanel fashion show or something.

[A]

I. I agree with you. Again, we'll get into the camera work because it did make it hard to see how big this event actually was.

[B]

But yeah, they also, I'm sure they got a ton from corporate sponsors, one of which was the manufacturer of Manjaro.

[A]

Eli Lilly. Yes. So, so I was putting Morty down when the livestream was happening, so I watched it after the fact. Did you get the four ads that happened back to back before Vogue World started?

[B]

Yes, but I didn't actually watch them.

[A]

It made me feel like our podcast listeners that don't pay for the vip. I was like oh this is like listening to a host red ad filled episode because it was like Starbucks mod Apatow and the Chase Sapphire ad. Eli Lilly, Cynthia Erivo in the Vogue X ebay ad.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't watch any of that.

[A]

According to Lauren Sherman's article in Puck News about Vogue World. There was a Quinn scarf on every seat.

[B]

Oh, there you go. Yeah. I watched the live stream as it happened, and I do think that the way that the show was choreographed was interesting and impressive. But. But I missed half of the looks for the first time. Like, this might be the first fashion show that it's actually better to ingest it via photographs from Vogue Runway and not through video, which is crazy.

[A]

So I did some research on this because the chief complaint of many people, myself included, was a lot of watching the live stream was like, wait, wait, who's that in? Who's that in the back? That looked interesting. Where, where did they go? This was shot by Marc A. Richie, who's an Emmy award winning Grammy nominated executive producer and director. And he has done things like Beyonce's Renaissance film. He's done Kanye concerts, he's done a Tiffany blue Runway ad. Like, he's very good at this stuff. So I was trying to figure out why the camera work was so wonky. And after watching the livestream, I immediately went to remember the Gucci Love Parade show that happened on Hollywood Boulevard. I think the. The main issue of this Runway show and why it was better in photographs versus watching it is unlike the Gucci Hollywood Boulevard show, that one had a steady stream of people that were walking all single file. There was just so many people running through the frame that you couldn't focus on any one thing.

[B]

Also, it was. Was shot on the Paramount lot, like on a fake New York City street, essentially. And I thought it was funny because, like, it was modeled after a guerrilla fashion show, you know, in terms of how chaotic it was, the fact that it was in the street. We obviously just saw that telfar show that was literally in the streets of New York. And it's just funny for like, like the most establishment thing in the world, Vogue, to sort of do a show in that style when they could do something that was more traditional and just. And make it interesting by having random groupings of people. It's sure, maybe it's three models at once, but they all come out together at the same time. We can see what everyone's wearing. Everyone gets their moment for sure.

[A]

And, you know, I believe it was at the end of the last Vogue World, which happened in Paris, that they were like, the next one is in Hollywood. But in the time that they announced that they would, they were going to do their homage to the intersection of fashion and Hollywood, the studio came out and the studio has some of the most beautiful and chaotic camera work done on the same backlots. That this fashion show is taking place on. Not that they could do, you know, a continuous oner for. For 30 minutes, but I just found it funny that they were trying to manufacture this. This chaos of what it's like, you know, in the. In the Hollywood machine, baby. Action places, everybody.

[B]

Well, to shift the conversation to things I actually liked about Vogue World and I. And to be clear, I did like a lot of the looks in the show, especially the looks that were recreations of famous costumes from movies. But I really liked the props that some of those people had, because it would be like you'd see Jessica Rabbit, but then, like, she would have hair clothes clips as if she was walking to set. Or you'd see, like, Marlena Dietrich, but, like, with a Starbucks cup. Or you'd see Bonnie and Clyde with, like, the scripts from the scene. I loved, loved those details. And Shirley Kurata, who works with Rote a lot, she was nominated for an Oscar for Everything Everywhere all at Once. She's the one that did all of the looks that were just. Just the sort of random recreations of famous costumes that were peppered throughout the different parts of the show, which did have more distinct themes.

[A]

They did. I would say that the most confused portion was that Edward Scissorhands sort of goth portion. But then it descended into, like, at one point, you see a Willy Wonka and then like a 1980s Madonna drifting through.

[B]

Okay, well, here's the thing. I think the biggest problem that Vogue World has to solve is telling the viewer, A, who's designing these clothes? And B, if you do have, like, if it is curated by someone, which was the case in this show, like, who did it? This show was actually divided into six acts. I only know about this because I read it online. The first act was Katherine Martin and Musha Prada, which was the Jazz Age section, the silent film section where we got Kyle MacLachlan in the Tom Ford smoking look. Then Colleen atwood and Sean McGurr did the spooky part that you were just talking about with Edward Scissorhands and the sort of more like, avant garde stuff. Act three was Melena Cannonero and Nicholas and Nicolas Ghesquiere doing the historical costumes, which probably my favorite.

[A]

That was with Hunter Schaeffer in the Orlando costume.

[B]

No, no, no. That was the Sandy Powell, Alessandro Michelle section. That came a little bit later. In between those, we got Ariane Phillips and Marc Jacobs doing this sort of 70s, 60s, 70s summer of love shit.

[A]

That the hippie section was the one that confused me the most.

[B]

Yeah, because I think a lot of the looks were just kind of beatnik looks that I didn't necessarily associate with. With film, but there was some amazing moments in that. Like, I loved the Margot Robbie and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood snakeskin look. I loved, like, what's her face? Jack White and Karen Ellison's daughter, Scarlet.

[A]

White, I believe is her name.

[B]

She was basically wearing Reese Witherspoon's look from Walk the Line, but then instead of like, a man being Johnny Cash, it was like a lesbian model of some kind. And it looked very like, like, 50s, butch femme, cute vibes. But, yeah, the Orlando section was definitely the gayest and probably my favorite because we get the. The clothes from Orlando. We got, I think was the velvet. Yeah, the velvet gold mine section of that was a highlight for me.

[A]

It was. It was a lot.

[B]

Then there was the Black Panther, like, Afro futuristic section. That was Ruth Carter and Olivier Roustan and then act. And then the final act was Jacqueline west and Peter Muellier, which was like the Dune minimal avant garde kind of section that closed out with the Glenn Martens Margiela couture look. But the problem remains that these clothes are all old. And we've seen them all.

[A]

Right? Right. And if you have not, it's not just that you've seen them on the Runway. You've seen them in the Vogue editorial that appeared, like, two weeks before this fashion show.

[B]

Yeah. The thing that I bring up every single year when we talk about Vogue world is I think when there's a fashion show, there is an expectation that you are debuting new clothes. That's the point of a fashion show. That's why they exist. I don't understand why Vogue doesn't just force. Force 50 designers or 80 designers to design a single look around a theme, a unifying theme, which could have been Hollywood costume this year. And all of these looks are debuted. We got similar fashion shows like this for the. The Sonja Reikiel 40th Anniversary Show. The. The fashion show that came out after Alberto Baz passed away. And then they can auction off all of the looks for charity. We can all see something new.

[A]

I think my biggest issue with this Vogue world was the music choices. So it began with Nicole Kidman doing the Put the Blame on Mame Rita Hayworth recreation from the movie Gilda, which, by the way, I think I'm the only person that's actually seen the movie Gilda, because.

[B]

Okay, you're not the only person that's.

[A]

Seen the movie Gilda, the movie Gilda does not make any sense. Sense. Like, that scene is incredible, but, like, the plot of Gilda absolutely makes no sense. Fine. That's how we start. But my issue is, then Kendall Jenner walks out in a recreation of Nicole Kidman's costume from Moulin Rouge. But to Kris Isaacs, I Did a Bad, Bad thing, which is the song that they use in the trailer for Nicole Kidman's film Eyes Wide Shut, which I was like, what are we doing here?

[B]

Yeah. I think as much as I love Nicole Kidman and I always appreciate seeing her, there was something not that exciting about this. I think, because we've seen her model in those Balenciaga couture shows recently. So the novelty of her being on a Runway, it's like, we've seen it before, you know, like, we were excited to see Laura Dern open. Gabriella Hearst because she's never modeled before. Same with Kyle McLaughlin. Like, love him, obviously, but how many fashion shows has this man been in? You know, we've seen him again. Where the fuck is Matthew Modine?

[A]

Well, also, it just becomes clear that Anna Wintour knows one director, and that director is Baz Luhrmann. Yeah, wait, I take that back. She knows two directors. The second director is Bradley Cooper. Also, like, I just. I couldn't get into the Julia Gardner Marie Antoinette thing because she's running down.

[B]

The backlog to bad reputation, which I'm like.

[A]

Like Sophia Coppola, I'm sure, likes Joan Jett, but, like, would never put that in Marie Antoinette.

[B]

No, would never in a million years. I thought the exact same thing. Also, Gracie Abrams, very random. I do think it benefits from having musical performances, and I think there should have been more of that, but I don't know that that didn't land for me personally. I do think Doja Cat added a lot to this. She brought this sort of energy that we needed. Although, when she first came out, I thought she was Tinker Bell. And I was later told that she was supposed to be Tina Turner in Mad Max. I'm like, that's not how Tina Turner looked.

[A]

Oh, my God, Chelsea. I thought the same thing. No, I realized from the wig that it was beyond Thunderdome. Tina Turner and beyond Thunderdome. But it's like, that's not what her costume looked like.

[B]

Well, it didn't have wings, for one.

[A]

For one thing, there was part of me that was trying to understand genuinely in good faith, what is the purpose of Vogue World Hollywood. And I was like, maybe they're soft. Launching the Met Gala's next costume exhibit that it will be about Hollywood costumes. And then I remember that we have intel that Andrew Bolton will never do a Hollywood costumes exhibit.

[B]

Look, there's only so many cities that they're going to do this in. Makes sense that LA is one of them. This is the fashion of our city.

[A]

Yes. I mean, I think my thing is Vogue itself as we know it. The print edition is becoming less and less relevant. They are trying to find ways to be relevant in this new mediascape. They have invented a new event. But my point is, like, if you want to do a cash grab, you want corporate sponsors, you want a bunch of celebrities to come, just do an award show. Vogue used to have an award show. The Vogue VH1 Fashion Awards. Just do that again without the VH1 part.

[B]

Yeah, they don't need VH1 anymore.

[A]

Sadly, I don't think VH1 exists.

[B]

Or they need to just bring some more drama to this situation. Like, if they're not gonna do the, like, every designer designs one look thing, they need to figure out something. So it's like, okay, maybe five designers are doing capsule collections of multiple looks, and then they're all competing against each other. Like, it's the best. The Battle of Versailles or something. And like, someone wins and like, maybe Liza Minnelli performs as an homage to the original. Just something to think about. Because it's so weird to see something that is so. For us, like, specifically for you and me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, if we can't fully grasp what this is or we don't feel like it's timely or part. Like. Like, who's really. Who's it for? Although I will say again, I don't want to fully talk shit, because there were some moments that I found to be quite affecting, specifically the Diane Keaton part, which I actually did burst into tears. And that is like, the one part that I do think. It's like, you gotta watch the video of that.

[A]

It's so ethereal that it. It does present, like a hologram or like the ghost of Annie hall just appeared in, you know, in the backlog.

[B]

It also was one of the few looks where she got her own moment. There weren't 10,000 other models on the Runway. She walked down the Runway in the Ralph Lauren outfit or recreation of the Ralph Lauren outfit from Annie hall with the song. I mean, the most haunting thing, the song that Diane Keaton sings in that movie playing. I just thought it was beautiful, magical, everything that we could have wanted from Vogue World in that moment.

[A]

I think, why. It doesn't exactly Connect to us is there was something Hollywood Boulevard about it, because the point that you're talking about with, like, Diane Keaton is exactly what we want. But then you just have, like, you know, a facsimile of Sharon Dion walking past her and then, like, roaming guards that kind of take you out of the moment. Yeah.

[B]

They didn't all have to walk simultaneously like that. But I will say those. Those costumes were my favorite. But a lot of them I didn't even see until I. I looked at the photos on Vogue Runway. I didn't see the Tippi Hedren from the Birds, which was my favorite look. What else was really major? Oh, the Princess Leia was also an incredible look.

[A]

Wait, what?

[B]

I'm telling you, you have to, like, look at the photos, because I don't think I saw her at all in the live stream, and if I did, she was behind a model that was just shot more prominently. But I really. I just. I loved that stuff. I thought it was so fun.

[A]

That is also something that I wish, like, the Swarovski event did have some sort of exhibition space where we could go to and see these recreations.

[B]

Exactly. Do the fashion show make an exhibit out of it that the public can actually come to and engage with. With. Auction it off for charity.

[A]

Well, also make it an exhibit. We will pay money. We will happily, you know, raise money to give to costume designers whose homes burned down.

[B]

Also, surely just getting custom looks made would solve certain logistical problems with the styling. I can't even imagine what the sort of lead stylist or whoever was, like, overseeing this whole thing had to go through to get all of those samples for the show. I can't even imagine. It must have been hell. And also, like, the Sateen look, that Kendall Jenner look was then moved to the Swarovski exhibit, but apparently it's one of three Satine costumes that exist.

[A]

That makes sense. I'm sure one is in Baz Luhrmann's living room.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. I, like, applaud what they are trying to do, but the messaging is murky. It doesn't feel timely in the way that the Met Galactic feels. And the Met Gala feels timely because we're seeing new things for the first time.

[A]

That's true. And I think especially this Vogue world, I feel like the reaction was, ooh, this feels like a money grab. Or like this feels like some kind of money laundering scheme. I'm not exactly sure how. And I think what sets it apart from the Met Gala is, yes, the Met gala. Like, Vogue World is a fundraising event, but at least we get the red carpet. That's for the plebs watching on the live stream. And I didn't feel that with this live stream, and I know that I've talked a lot of shit about it. I do want to say I have extreme empathy for the hundreds of production people that it took to put this on.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it's an incredible production feed. Also, I need to give a shout out to a fuckette who was in the show.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

A fuckette named John Arrill, who's a musician, but he was cast as the Ben Stiller in the Royal Tenenbaums in Vogue World, which I thought was so cute.

[A]

Wow. We have a fuckette boots on the ground.

[B]

He looked sensational. So congrats to him.

[A]

Where do we think the next Vogue World will be? Like, we've run out of cities. They did New York, London, Paris.

[B]

Well, Milan, that's true. We haven't run out of cities. That's like the most, like, brainwrought thing that you've ever said.

[A]

I mean, cities to sort of tie the event to, like, what are they gonna do? Vogue World, Austin.

[B]

Have you learned nothing from all of those Chanel Cruz shows that we've seen throughout our lives life? You never run out of cities. And yes, at some point, you do end up in Texas.

[A]

I think you're right. It's either all right, Milan, Sydney or Miami next. I bet they'll go out of the country for the next Vogue World.

[B]

Sydney's too far. That's. No one wants to pay for all those plane tickets. I heard that they had to charter a plane from New York just with all of the models.

[A]

Yeah, you would have to. I mean, we should say that this is a fundraising event that, like, the Met, I'm sure, took eight figures to put up. Like, it took millions of dollars to put VoteWorld up. It raised several million dollars, but then also, like, from corporate sponsors, it seems it generated tens of millions of dollars.

[B]

I can't imagine just the shipping costs alone for the clothes. It must be insane. Anyway, what else is happening?

[A]

Marc Jacobs has a new home. Is. It was reported by Lauren Sherman of Puck News that Authentic Brands Group has purchased Marc Jacobs, which is previously owned by lvmh. LVMH had been shopping Marc Jacobs around for a while. They put the value of the brand at a billion dollars because the company generates well over $500 million a year. Did you know that?

[B]

That I'm not surprised, like, the amount of times I see the, like the tote bag out in the wild. Like people are buying those, you know, and people are buying the fragrances also.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Although who knows? That may be licensed to. I don't. I don't know how any of that shit works.

[A]

I believe their perfume is through Cody. But people, the streets are not sure how to feel about this sale because it could be a good thing. It could be a bad, bad thing. Authentic Brands Group, they're primarily known as a licensing company. They own more than 50 consumer brands as well as the likeness rights or estates of celebrities including Muhammad Ali, Elvis Presley and Marilyn Monroe. And curiously enough, Chell, they also own Barney's New York.

[B]

Well, I was looking at the list of brands that they own and it's all shit that like was major and should be major again. Like Barney's, like Fredericks of Hollywood. Random shit like Roxy.

[A]

But Chell, do you know what they've done with Barney's New York? They've licensed the name for apartments in Tulum. I'm not joking. You can get a Barney's New York Tulum apartment.

[B]

Did you see like photos of Jordan Roth at like, you know how Bette Midler does that Halloween party every year? He had the most incredible costume where he was Barney's, but the skirt was made out of different Barney's window displays that were like all like the, the Greer Langton, like spooky mannequins. It was amazing. It's like the best Halloween costume I've ever seen, basically.

[A]

Anyway, so the fear is that Marc Jacobs is now doomed into licensing hell. However, in recent years, Authentic Brands Group has purchased just brands like Brooks Brothers. They just purchased a majority stake in Guess. So it seems like they are interested in functioning brands and not just making everything a licensing deal.

[B]

Jesus, can someone figure Guess out? It's like the branding is so good.

[A]

And the product is so bad.

[B]

And I think we talked about this on the podcast at some point. But those deeply offensive Anna Nicole billboards that they put up around LA that just said do you miss me? And it's like, yeah, bitch, because this.

[A]

Woman is dead and died very tragically.

[B]

You can't just like re release the ad campaigns with the Guess logo like a normal brand.

[A]

So it does seem like Marc Jacobs will continue. Heaven will exist as well.

[B]

That's my primary concern. I just don't want Heaven to get fucked over in this corporate reshape shuffling.

[A]

Well, I think Heaven is safe. But what I am curious and nervous about is I don't really get the vibe that Authentic brand groups again who license Barneys of New York to be the name of a Tulum apartment that they're down to fund Marc Jacobs Elaborate like nearly couture esque fashion shows.

[B]

No, but we will get a Marc Jacobs resort in Mykonos. Marc Jacobs ex guess well, praying that that goes well.

[A]

I thought we would end the podcast on a good note, an exciting note. We have more information on Tom Ford's.

[B]

New movie Lay it on Me.

[A]

So as you know, Tom Ford sold his fashion brand for $2.8 million to Estee Lauder back in 2023. He told GQ later that year that he wanted to spend the next 20 years of his life making movies and it was time to say goodbye to fashion because fashion is a younger man's game. So we have two bits of information. The first comes from Francine Masler, who is the casting director of such films as Sinners and that new Springsteen film that we will not be watching. But we learned that she's working on Tom Ford's hotly anticipated third film. She says in an interview with Variety, he's in London and he's my first call at 6:30 in the morning. We work round the clock because it's him. We collaborate on every single thing. And she teased, it's going to be this epic, incredible movie that you're going to love, which I don't disagree with.

[B]

I'm sure we will love it.

[A]

So there's not much information there. Variety reached out to Tom Ford's manager Simon Halls, who said the project is still in early development stages. Then the website World of Real R E E L drop the most information we have on the new Tom Ford film which is, well one. He's got two films in pre production, but the one that's going to go first will start production January of 2026 and is an adaptation of Anne Rice's Cry to Heaven.

[B]

I've never read this book but according to Goodreads, it sounds major.

[A]

Yeah, it's about two musicians or two musical minds. One who is a castrato living in 18th century Italy. So I can't wait to see Nicholas Hoult or Aaron Taylor Swift. Johnson is like a ripped castrato as a castrated man. As a castrated opera singer. Tonio has been castrated by his vengeful brother in order to preserve his soprano voice.

[B]

We're off to a great start, but the question remains, which red headed woman will he find to star in this film?

[A]

Will it be Julianne Moore that was in A Single Man? Will it be Amy Adams who was in Nocturnal Animals?

[B]

Or will he go with someone new, like Sadie Sink? Ooh.

[A]

Well, we will be following this film. I assume it will be in production in London, so ciao. If you can't find me at the top of the year, I'm in London at Pinewood Studios stalking this Tom Ford film.

[B]

I'm so excited. His movies are so good, and it's been too long.

[A]

I know we say this often. Probably not often enough, but truly something to live for.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And with that, we have to leave you guys.

[A]

All right, guys, see you next week.

[B]

Bye.