249: On the Met Gala, Courtney Love, BigTool4U (Feat. Princess Nokia)

Summary

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Every Outfit

Episode 249: On the Met Gala, Courtney Love, BigTool4U (Feat. Princess Nokia)

Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Chelsea Fairless & Lauren Garroni
Special Guest: Princess Nokia

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into fashion, pop culture, and the intersections of both, with a spirited discussion on the 2025 Met Gala's theme and sponsors, media evolutions at Vanity Fair, and nuanced cultural phenomena from Sex and the City to Ghost World. The second half features a dynamic interview with musician and New York “it girl” Princess Nokia, who discusses her new album "Girls," Courtney Love, iconic fashion, and the art of being subversive—plus takes on period blood in art, riot grrrl aesthetics, and the endless brilliance (and failures) of Sex and the City.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Met Gala 2025: Theme, Sponsors, and the "Bezos Sanchez of it All"

[01:23–08:19]

• The 2025 Met Gala theme is “Costume Art,” centered on the dressed body, body modification, nudity, and art/fashion intersections. The new 12,000 sq. ft. galleries at the Met will bring the Costume Institute out of the basement and elevate its importance.
• Chelsea: “It’s an un-fuck-up-able red carpet theme. I anticipate we’ll see clothes that reference anatomy, body modification, nudity… as well as more historical pieces.” (03:08)
• Lauren: Notes how broadly adaptable and accessible this theme is, unlike recent, more restrictive ones.
• Main sponsor controversy: Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez, as private underwriters, provoke strong reactions, given their public image and overt connections to Conde Nast’s Anna Wintour.
• Chelsea: “I don’t think anyone deserves to have a billion dollars in this life. But I’m not going to be like ‘fuck them’ for sponsoring this charity event while I shop on Amazon myself.” (06:23)
• Lauren: Their involvement has overshadowed that of luxury brand Saint Laurent as additional sponsor. Ponders what this means for the future of arts philanthropy and creative institutions increasingly reliant on ultrarich donors.

2. Vanity Fair’s Hollywood Issue: New Editor, Old (Male) Energy

[10:28–16:39]

• Debating Marc Guiducci’s debut as EIC with the all-male Hollywood Issue covers.
• Lauren: “What in the Abercrombie and Fitch is this?” (10:43)
• Chelsea views the shoot as fresh and classic, reminiscent of 1990s Bruce Weber or Mario Testino.
• Critique: All-male “boys” covers with an average age of 35 don’t represent the new guard. Notable omissions include Timothée Chalamet or Jacob Elordi.
• Bemoans brainrot from “stars are just like us” video content, and celebrity press tours forcing actors into awkwardly relatable internet segments.

3. "Sex and the City" Hypotheticals & Fashion Lore

[16:39–22:09]

• Mapping the SATC women onto Los Angeles neighborhoods, both original and current series iterations:
  • Carrie: Hollywood (then); Hancock Park (now)
  • Samantha: West Hollywood, always penthouse-level
  • Charlotte: Beverly Hills/Brentwood
  • Miranda: Studio City/Santa Monica/Los Feliz
• LA geography means “they would basically never see each other” (18:33)
• Quick detour into Ione Skye’s new memoir, with tangents about 1990s fashion, lore, and celebrity connections.

4. Lightning Fashion, Pop & Culture Q&A

[34:12–41:44 and beyond, via listener calls]

• What brand would you wear forever?
  • Chelsea: Yves Saint Laurent.
  • Lauren: Jean Paul Gaultier or Phoebe Philo–era Chloé.
• Death Becomes Her remake fan-cast:
  • Anne Hathaway as Meryl; Lady Gaga as Goldie’s character (not Kate Hudson); Michaela Coel for the Isabella Rossellini role
• Alexa Demie’s career:
  • Chelsea: “One of the great tragedies of the entertainment industry...Maybe she should get new reps.” (37:29)
  • Lauren: “I just think she’s too cool for Hollywood.”
• Glamorous Women Having Nervous Breakdowns, Sleepover Edition:
  • Campy picks: Valley of the Dolls, Serial Mom, First Wives Club. Melancholia/Persona too sad!
  • Lauren recommends a montage of freakout scenes for slumber parties.

5. Pop Culture Deep Cuts & Hot Takes

Scattered throughout, incl. calls:

• Why did they make Naomi Watts British? Actual British roots, accent lore, and “accent puberty” (24:06–25:07).
• Kardashian content hiatus: Due to backlash and professional conflicts of interest.
• Rosalía’s album LUX:
  • Chelsea: “Rare that pop artists with the fame level of Rosalia make music that is this avant garde.”
  • Both praise experimental direction and referential, deep-cut fashion styling; Princess Nokia later joins the conversation.
• Ghost World appreciation: Film as North Star for alt-girls; perfectly encapsulates drifting post-high-school female friendship.
• Cher's gelato: Listener bafflement, Vogue backstory (“I can’t even imagine her eating ice cream…there’s something about Cher that just makes me imagine big salads and lean protein.” – Chelsea, 48:15)

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Interview: Princess Nokia

[60:16–101:18]

Fashion, Feminism, & Artistic Subversion

• Naming her track “Phoebe Philo”:
  • “I thought it was such a cunty reference that I had not heard any of my peers do… I don’t wear that stuff and perhaps I don’t know certain collections by heart, but I know the essence of what that woman is because I’ve always been her.” — Princess Nokia (60:45)
• Courtney Love, Glamour and Selling Out:
  • Courtney’s defense of red-carpet glamour was sampled at the album’s start: “We as females have thousands and thousands of years of fashion in our DNA. We want to wear nice clothes. It’s part of what we do…” (62:29)
  • Princess Nokia on Courtney: “Every so often, misunderstood woman, glamorous woman, having nervous breakdowns, they always come back into the zeitgeist… we support women’s rights and women’s wrongs.” (62:59)

High Fashion Stories

• Margiela Mutiny campaign with John Galliano:
  • Princess Nokia shares a poetic encounter: Galliano fitted her personally and had her dance to Joan Baez’s “Diamonds and Rust.”
  • “I did this beautiful interpretive dance for six minutes straight… At the end, all these French people stood up and cried.” (67:31)

Art, Violence, and Menstruation in Music

• Concept of “Blue Velvet”:
  • Inspired by David Lynch and listening to the hosts’ references over the years: “I digest his work, but [decided], I’m David Lynch, babe, I’m smoking Blue Velvet. I’m just on some other kind of shit.”
  • “I wanted to make something that was cool and that was poignant and that was provocative and that spoke things that were very… powerful.” (71:50)
• Provocative album art (real period blood):
  • “I wanted to anchor some artwork...I didn’t know that my period was going to come two days before that shoot…I took the diva cup, and I put the blood on it like an artist would. And I said, oh, this looks fabulous.” (74:17)
  • Chelsea: “To me, the album cover feels very Riot Grrrl… or 70s performance artist…” (75:54)

Championing Pop Girlies, Deep-Cuts, & Subculture

• Name-dropping female musicians:
  • “I only like the girls...Lauryn Hill, LeChat, Lil' Kim, Foxy Brown… I refer to it as the summer of pop… All these pop girls… have their own thing going on.” (77:36)
• On period blood as punk:
  • Lauren recalls L7's infamous tampon-throwing incident as “the ultimate punk f-you to the crowd.” (76:55)

Sex and the City “Hot Takes,” Legacy, and Missed Opportunities

• Nokia’s wish for the hosts:
  • “I could have swore…that you guys were being individually plucked to spearhead and just like that…If we were a part of the writing room…we would have avoided that continuity error.” (96:11, 99:19)
  • “I think you guys would have invigorated the franchise…There was a real missed opportunity to show the chicness of modern women…” (99:19)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lauren on the Met Gala:
  “This is Marie Antoinette, let them eat cake, eat the rich type of event. So having [Bezos and Sanchez] involved isn’t the craziest thing?” (07:46)
• Chelsea on personal style:
  “Having a personal style is overrated. Half the people that do have personal style—they still end up looking like shit.” (53:44)
• Princess Nokia:
  “Women in music is my special interest. I've never been interested in men in rap. I only like the girls.” (77:36)
• Chelsea on being haunted by middle school fashion:
  “One item of clothing that really fucking haunts me… it was a baby tee. It said fashion on it. And then it had a little baby chick...I wore it with baggy pinstriped trousers with suspenders.” (55:24)
• Princess Nokia on “Blue Velvet”:
  “I wanted to make something that was cool and that was poignant and that was provocative and that spoke things that were very, you know, powerful.” (71:50)
• Chelsea endorsing guest:
  “I'm speechless. And I'm honored coming from you.” (99:24)

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Segment Timestamps

• [01:23–08:19] Met Gala 2025 Theme & Controversy
• [10:28–16:39] Vanity Fair’s Hollywood Issue & Celebrity Press Brainrot
• [16:39–22:09] “Sex and the City” LA Neighborhoods & Ione Skye Memoir
• [34:12–41:44] Lightning Q&A: Fashion Picks, Remake Casting, Alexa Demie
• [46:38–50:05] Cher's Gelato & Celebrity Branding
• [50:05–54:07] Wardrobe Revamps & Personal Style Philosophy
• [56:33–58:29] Glamorous Women Breaking Down—Sleepover Films
• [60:16–101:18] Princess Nokia Interview & Listener Questions

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Listener Q&A & Highlights

• Is Ms. Piggy abusive, or is it a dom-sub relationship?
  General agreement it is “kink shaming” a dom-sub relationship; also commentary on queer-coded power couples. (79:50–81:14)
• Is it okay to wear Uggs outside?
  Approved—with caveats: context and era matter, but go for it with a sweatsuit (and coffee).
• Sex and the City characters in the Epstein files?
  Samantha would have tangential ties—PR emails and scandalous photos, but stops short of criminal implication.

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Princess Nokia: Fan-Favorite Listener Questions

• What would you want SJP to do next?
  • Princess Nokia: “Be someone’s quirky, messy stoner aunt.” (93:13)
  • Chelsea: “A prestige romantic comedy—or The Big Lebowski, but with SJP.” (94:12)
• Sex and the City’s writing team missed opportunity:
  • “I think my hottest take was that they missed out not hiring you guys. I think that was the biggest fucking blunder and mistake.” (99:19)

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Tone & Style

The episode is characteristically witty, sharp, and steeped in irreverent, cerebral pop-culture analysis. Chelsea and Lauren toss between jaded veteran takes and utter pop fan exuberance; Princess Nokia brings playful, radical honesty and a clear adoration for both fashion and feminist subversion—framed with candor about bodily functions, period blood as art, and the enduring power of the “girls.”

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Useful for New Listeners

This episode is packed with fashion analysis, sharp parodies of celebrity culture, and a rare, unguarded interview with Princess Nokia—all anchored by the hosts’ encyclopedic cultural knowledge and double-edged reverence for (and critique of) the worlds of style, art, music, and television. You’ll leave with hot takes on everything from iconic magazine covers to menstrual art performance, and the fate of fictional friendships in LA, plus a lot of memorable humor and candid truths.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

Dancing Like Suspiria I'm rotten to the core Ex girl Bad bitch Phoebe Philo Maleficent I'm the princess all the girlies Are Inspired magazine I just went in for the killing Ex girl Bad bitch.

[C]

Phoebe Philo hi, I'm Lauren Groney.

[B]

And I'm Chelsea Fairless. And that was Princess Nokia's new song, Phoebe Philo. We are so excited to talk to her later in this episode, but first we have some questions from listeners to answer.

[C]

Let's get into it.

[B]

So this question was submitted through Instagram. Thoughts on the Met Gala and the Bezos Sanchez of it all. I have no opinion. So this is a layered question. I feel like we should start with the theme of the exhibition that the Costume Institute is mounting, which is Costume Art.

[C]

No subtitle.

[B]

No subtitle. According to Vogue, this exhibition, quote unquote, addresses the centrality of the dressed body in the museum's vast collection by pairing paintings, sculptures and other Objects spanning the 5000 years of art represented at the Met alongside historical and contemporary garments from the Costume Institute.

[C]

We should say that the inspiration for this theme is the fact that it is also marking the debut of the 12,000 square foot Conde Mnas Galleries. So they are taking the Costume Institute out of the basement and putting it in the main level.

[B]

Okay, but does that mean that the Anna Wintour Costume center is no more? Because that's what that was called.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Like is that still there? This space certainly seems like an upgrade because it is apparently adjacent to the Great Hall. Less of a journey.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think that this theme makes sense when you take into consideration it's more about celebrating this new gallery space. Also, it feels like this is an un fuck up able red carpet theme. Again, we don't know what the red carpet theme itself is going to be.

[B]

Which is always like a sub theme.

[C]

Right? But seeing that this is about the body. It feels like we're going to get a good red carpet.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you could take it in a lot of different directions. And in the exhibit and on the red carpet, I anticipate that we will see clothes that reference anatomy, body modification, nudity, as well as pieces that are more historical and sort of directly relate to the pieces in the collection that they are showing.

[C]

So all of Kim Kardashian's favorite things. I think every Met Gala theme is represented in this idea, potentially.

[B]

Oh, it's a great theme for the red carpet. It's not as narrow as some of the more recent Met Gala themes that we've had. It's not as confusing, I think.

[C]

I mean, it's broad, but it's simple.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that with the theme last year for the Super Fine Tailoring Black Style show, I do think there are people that didn't go to the Met Gala because they're like, I'm gonna fuck this up.

[C]

We did talk about that. And a lot of things that were thematic were glossed over on the red carpet. Just no one did them.

[B]

Yeah. But that often happens. But I wonder if Sarah Jessica Parker will re emerge because she was one of the people that always goes, that didn't go last year.

[C]

Very true. Now it feels like we're talking just so we don't have to talk about the Bezos Sanchez of it all.

[B]

Well, I think it's unfortunate that this announcement has already overshadowed the event. Lauren Sanchez and Jeff Bezos are not well liked. In the past, when they have intersected with Vogue magazine, whether it was that big Annie Leibovitz editorial that came out a couple years ago or maybe a few years ago now, or the more recent cover of her wedding dress, those things have not been well received.

[C]

They've not been well received by the public. But Anna Wintour is friends with them. So it's like in the halls of Conde Nast, bringing Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez Bezos into the fold is incredibly well received. And I feel like this goes to the conversation we were having about Vogue World, which Anna Wintour's job now seems to be keeping Vogue and Conde Nast at large funded. And we should say that there has always been a corporate sponsor. And in the past decade, a lot of social media tech billionaire companies have sponsored the Met Gala. TikTok, Instagram, Amazon even. However, we've never had two uber wealthy individuals underwrite the Met Gala before.

[B]

Yeah, I think the backlash would actually be less extreme if it was just sponsored by Amazon. But I do think this is part of a deliberate PR strategy to establish maybe more Lauren than Jeff in this world of high fashion.

[C]

Well, you remember post her digital wedding cover, there were all of these rumors that Jeff Bezos was going to buy Vogue for her, which never quite made sense to me. This makes a lot more sense.

[B]

For sure.

[C]

It buys influence, but also it has the specter of being philanthropic because that is ultimately what the Costume Institute Gala is.

[B]

Yeah, this is a charity event. I don't know. I don't think anyone deserves to have a billion dollars in this life. But also, I'm not gonna like sit here and be like, fuck them for sponsoring this charity event while I fully shop on Amazon myself.

[C]

Well, also, I feel like their involvement has overshadowed the fact that the additional funding for the event is coming from Saint Laurent, which. Does that mean Lauren Sanchez is going to be in those insane Saint Laurent gowns that we just saw on the Runway?

[B]

Who knows? At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if any major luxury brand dressed her. And you know what? Say what you will, Lauren Sanchez is perfect for this theme.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because of how sort of central her body is to the discussion of her. Because of like the sort of body modification elements and the extremes of the body which I believe will be showcased in this exhibition.

[C]

Well, you heard it here first. We won't be boycotting this event. We will, as always, breathlessly be covering it for you guys. But yeah, I'm not thrilled what this means for future arts events.

[B]

For sure. I also wonder if people are going to physically protest. I'm sure they would be kept far enough away from the stairs. It's such a high security event just because of the amount of high profile people that are there. But.

[C]

Well, I think we noted this on our last Met Gala episode that it does seem that it's de rigueur now that like every year with the Met Gala, we're going to have a conversation that, you know, this is Marie Antoinette, let them eat cake, eat the rich type of event. So it's like having them involved in it isn't the craziest thing?

[B]

No.

[C]

But as I said, it does not make me feel good in what it means for the future of underwriting the creative arts. Whether that's film, music, opera, fashion.

[B]

Hey, it's not like they're the Sackler family.

[C]

Don't they have a hall at the Met?

[B]

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[C]

Did we mention that These fragrances are 100% authentic? They are not dupes. I think that we have hit peak dupe culture.

[B]

We have, because when we were growing up, dupes were limited to those designer imposter fragrances that we saw at drugstores. But now they are literally everywhere. And with Micro Perfumes, you don't have to sacrifice quality. Their fragrances are even cheaper than a lot of dupes because even with dupes, you have to buy a full bottle.

[C]

Also, the holidays are upon us, and fragrances make great gifts, but it's hard to know what people like. And Micro Perfumes sells really great gift sets where they bundle a few travel sprays together, so it's less of a gamble. And if whomever you give the gift to really likes one of them, you can buy them a full bottle later. Did we mention that Micro Perfume sells over 500 designer scents?

[B]

I'm curious to know what you've been wearing, Lauren.

[C]

I've always wondered if I'm a patchouli girl. And so I decided to get Le Labo's Patchouli 24 as a sample vial. And you know what, Chell? I think I might be a patchouli girl.

[B]

Okay, you are the last person in the world that I would think would be a patchouli girl. That's not shade. This is coming from someone who grew up around a lot of patchouli. I, however, have been wearing Portrait of a Lady by Frederic Mal, who I believe is the cousin of new Vogue editorial director Chloe Moll. Interesting nephew of Candice Bergen. Anyway, this is a digression, Lauren. Can you do the call to action?

[C]

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[B]

Okay, next question. Thoughts on Marc Guiducci's first Vanity Fair cover?

[C]

So it's a Hollywood issue. That's a high ticket issue to make your debut with.

[B]

Yes, that's the September issue in Vanity Fair terms.

[C]

So there are three covers featuring men of Hollywood, and I said the covers to you, and I just wrote, what in the Abercrombie and Fitch is this.

[B]

See, I think it looks good. I think it looks fresh. It's not trying to reinvent the wheel necessarily, but I feel like that's fine. The guys look hot. They don't look overly retouched. It looks like it could be a Bruce Weber or a Mario Testino shoot from the 90s. Although I will say I don't know who half of these guys are. And there's one of the three covers where I don't know who any of them are. The one with the umbrella.

[C]

That's fair. I believe one of the men there is Dua Lipa's boyfriend, who I feel like a few episodes ago we were desperately searching for his name. Here's the thing, Chell. In my mind, Vanity Fair. Hollywood issues have two genres. One genre is anointing the new generation of actors. Meaning that it's youth focused. Yes. Or two, it is a wide breadth of actors and ages, and I feel that this does neither. The tagline for the issue is, let's hear it for the boys. The boys. I did the math, Chelsea. The average age of these men featured on this cover is 35. Andrew Garfield is 42, and he's already been on a Hollywood issue cover.

[B]

Well, a lot of people are repeat offenders on the Hollywood issue, but I don't know, I feel like people are acting like it's crazy that they've done an all male cover when they've done multiple all male covers for the Hollywood issue before. The one that comes to mind first is the one that they did in the 90s where it was like, young Leonardo DiCaprio, Matthew McConaughey. And like, I forget who else was.

[C]

On this is when people gave a shit about print issues. And there was the Trifold. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Which was the exciting part of the Hollywood issue because you were like, all right, who's on that second fold? Who's on that third fold? I think, like, Skeet Ulrich was on there, too. My point is that there's no one new. And there are. There are some glaring omissions if we're talking about young male Hollywood, which is there's no Timmy, there's no Jacob Elordi, there's no Josh o'. Connor.

[B]

Wasn't he one of them?

[C]

Nope. That's Callum Turner you're probably thinking of. Oh, the fact that these three men who are each having very interesting years for film, like, they have some of the most diverse projects, the fact that they're not on this cover. I have to assume there was some extreme scheduling conflict.

[B]

Well, yeah, I would Assume that it is a nightmare to schedule these group photo shoots for the Hollywood issue.

[C]

And I read the letter from the editor. I do understand the inspiration of this was taking the idea of the, quote, Internet boyfriend. And what happens when the Internet boyfriend grows up? He turns into a movie star. Chelsea.

[B]

Well, also, Ottessa Moshfegh wrote the COVID story, which I haven't read yet. I want to get the physical issue. And also, I think when we talk about the Hollywood issue, we have to mention the fact that, like, a huge part of the Hollywood issue is the portfolio inside. So I will also be very curious what that looks like. We haven't seen any of that yet at this point.

[C]

What we have seen, though, or at least I have seen, which I would love to talk to you about, is the video content that is associated with this cover. The videos that they've released on Vanity Fair's YouTube channel. We have reached the nexus of, like, stars. They're just like us and Internet brainrot. Because it's just these actors showing each other YouTube videos. And I do not want to see movie stars watching the Internet. Stop it.

[B]

I miss that completely.

[C]

See, if I was ever on subway takes, my subway take would be that stars need to be less normal. The worst thing we ever did to celebrity was making celebrities pretend that they're normal.

[B]

Yeah, because they're not actually normal. I don't know. I generally am encouraged by this just because I have really, really not fud with Van Fair in recent years. It hasn't been good. I'm glad someone new is there. I'm a little bit thrown by the change with the logo. It is now a sans serif again. It is a very similar logo to the Vanity Fair logo from the early 2000s. It switched in the year 2000. And to me, I don't love that because it reminds me of, like, when Vanity Fair actually took a nosedive and stopped being relevant. Was that same time the look of the magazine changed, the photography got worse, the covers got less conceptual. It lost a lot of the humor that we had associated with Vanity Fair and those sort of cheeky satirical covers that they had done in the 90s.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I had no idea you had so much beef with Vanity Fair.

[B]

You have more beef than me about this issue. I was just surprised by the choice.

[C]

I just, you know, my main issue is the fact that we're referring to these men as boys. And I just think we have reached peak brain rot with whatever celebrities have to do now on press tours. This is an aside, but I do think it bears mentioning. Do you know what actors now have to do on press tours beyond, like, eating fiery hot wings and trying to, you know, create some viral moment? The New York Times clearly is like, we need our version of this. And they basically make actors come to their test kitchen and cook.

[A]

And.

[C]

And Chelsea, it has all of the charisma of, like, a cooking segment on a talk show, which are always the worst segments. You know why? Because it becomes clear that none of these actors cook or eat. I don't want to see Emma Stone make spaghetti and meatballs.

[B]

Yeah, you press play on that video and I didn't.

[C]

I scrub through it.

[B]

Okay, next question. If the Sex and the City girls lived in la, which neighborhoods would they live in?

[C]

This is tough because. Are we talking about Sex in the City girls then or now?

[B]

We can do both. We can do both. Let's. Let's start with OG Sex in the City.

[C]

See, this is. My point is, I would say Carrie Bradshaw of the late 90s, early 2000s would live in West Hollywood or in Hollywood. Ooh, grittier.

[B]

I think. Grittier. I think Samantha would live in West Hollywood.

[C]

See, I would say Samantha then and now would live in West Hollywood.

[B]

Absolutely. Then she would have lived in a sort of of, okay, apartment. Now she would live in, like, one of those random penthouses in a really fancy apartment building.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Samantha would have the penthouse in the Sierra Towers.

[B]

She'd have all the views.

[C]

So for someone like Charlotte, I want to say that she would live in Brentwood. But, like, for example, if Charlotte worked at Gagosian in Beverly Hills, I could see her living in a fab Spanish duplex in the flats of Beverly Hills, like the ones that they have behind Neiman Marcus.

[B]

Now she would definitely live in Brentwood for sure. No question. Which leaves us with Miranda.

[C]

Controversially, I could see her living in Studio City.

[B]

I thought Studio City as well, but because it's the pragmatist in her that lives in Studio City.

[C]

But I could also see if she worked for a law office in Century City. I could imagine her living in Santa Monica and biking to work or some shit. Or if her law office was in downtown la, I could see her living in downtown.

[B]

But, see, how are they going to have their breakfast before work at the diner if she lives in fucking Santa Monica? That's not happening. This is why Charlotte has to live in Beverly Hills. Carrie has to live in Hollywood, Samantha has to live in WeHo, and Miranda can live in Studio City or Los Feliz or something.

[C]

Oh, wherever these ladies live. They would basically never see each other. Chelsea, you and I see each other as frequently as we do as friends. Because we do this.

[B]

Yeah. But Also, we're a 20 minute drive apart. It's not that extreme by LA standards.

[C]

Do we want to get into the guys?

[B]

Oh, we want to do this for the men, too. Wait, can we just talk about where the. And just like that characters would live, though? Because.

[C]

Jesus.

[B]

The woman is moving to Hancock Park.

[C]

The woman is living in a classic Craftsman home built in 1909.

[B]

Yes, she is.

[C]

All I had was Aiden. Like, Aiden then would be a Venice guy, but Aiden now would be an arts district guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Have you read Ione Skye's biography? Well, that's easy for me. The answer is no.

[B]

And the answer for me is obviously it's really, really good. And I highly recommend it to anyone who cares about actors. Cares about it. Girls. There's so much lore in this book. She tells you exactly what you want to know.

[C]

All the tea about dating Anthony Kiedis at 16.

[B]

Dating Anthony Kiedis, like his drug addiction, all of that. Her lesbian relationships with Jenny Shimizu, Ingrid Casares.

[C]

Oh, that must have been very exciting for you.

[B]

It was very exciting. Her divorce from A.D. rock because she couldn't stop cheating on him with various women. Like, she really, really goes there. She's a very, very good writer. And the early childhood stuff was really fascinating too, because she grew up in LA and had this kind of bohemian existence as the daughter of the folk pop singer Donovan, but never knew him. She never knew him. He had abandoned her and her mother and her brother. And then as she gets older, her and her brother start acting. She's cast in say Anything. Not even say it before.

[C]

Oh, River's Edge.

[B]

She's cast in River's Edge. And then say Anything is huge. And yeah, it's a really, really good book.

[C]

That is a blind spot. And I wanted to say it was because the book came out when I was newly postpartum, but no, it came out in March.

[B]

Yeah. And another thing that I love about it is that because her brother is the actor, Jonathan Leach. Actor, model, we get all this sort of great lore about the fashion world in the 90s. She talks about how he was dating Kate Moss and she was a third wheel on one of their dates and the three of them went to see Nirvana on MTV Unplugged.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

Like, shit like that is just, like, casually dropped on every single page. And a caller actually called in about this, this book as well and mentioned that there is so Much overlap between the recent autobiographies of Ione sky of Kathleen Hannah, who was on the other end of the Adrock situation, and then also Moon Unit Zappa, who was one of her friends growing up and very much part of her like childhood scene.

[C]

Wait, Moon Unit wrote a book too?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

Which is supposed to be fantastic. I have not yet read that. Okay, so anyway, everyone read this book. It's fab.

[C]

The holidays are upon us. Which means that it's time to start thinking about gifts. I love buying presents for people and that's where the real comes in. The RealReal is the most trusted name in authenticated luxury resale and it's a great place to shop for gifts that aren't actually as expensive as they look.

[B]

Yeah, like shopping for gifts for my wife is always a whole thing because she has expensive taste. But we've mutually decided to have a frugal Christmas this year. And the RealReal is great because I can buy her a leather jacket for like the same amount of money that I would normally spend on like a low ticket designer item that's currently in stores like a baseball hat or a graphic tee or something, you know?

[C]

Chell you all a value based shopper?

[B]

I am. And honestly, spending so much time on the RealReal, I've never been less likely to buy something in a store because I know how much value you can get from the RealReal. Also, with gift giving, historically we don't think to buy like vintage or pre owned clothing for people because of the whole sizing thing. But with the RealReal, a lot of stuff is returnable so something to keep in mind.

[C]

You're right, we really haven't spoken enough about the realreals return policy. And with over 10,000 pre loved designer items dropping daily, you can shop your favorite luxury brands right from the comfort of your own home at up to 90% off retail. You can give or get the pieces from the brands you love like Balenciaga, Miu Miu, Simone Rocha and so many more. And unlike other resale sites, everything the RealReal sells is authenticated in person by luxury and fashion experts.

[B]

The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. With thousands of pre loved luxury arrivals daily. No one does resale like the RealReal and no one makes the holidays shine brighter than the RealReal. And now get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com/outfit. That's the realreal.com/outfit to get your $25 off. Start shopping now at therealreal.comoutfit. i love this. Next question. Why did they make Naomi Watts British?

[C]

I have an easy answer for you. It's because she is British.

[B]

She's Australian.

[C]

She was born in England and moved to Australia when she was 14. Wait, what?

[B]

I thought she was Australian for my entire life.

[C]

I did as well. And I originally was going to answer. Well, she just gives British. And I was like, let me go to her. Wikipedia. Nope. Born in England, two English parents, a Welsh grandmother, I think on her mom's side. Moved to Australia at 14.

[B]

But we've heard her speak in interviews. This is like not the voice that she has.

[C]

That is true. As my grandfather, a doctor loves to say, if you go to a place before you've had your period, that's where like an accent sort of fuses together again. I don't know if there's truth to that, but he just said it with such conviction when I was a child once that I was like, yeah, of course. Wherever you are when puberty happens is where your accent fuses together. So that's why I have to assume Austin Butler went through puberty during Elvis. No, she was a teenager there and lived there until her 20s.

[B]

Okay. But beyond Naomi Watts's own background, it is kind of random for the character.

[C]

Oh, we're talking about all's fair on all's fair.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I mean, I don't know, maybe they just think it's classy and it's fun to say the word barrister.

[B]

I don't know. I think if they just had her have an Australian accent, it would have been a little bit more like laid back, la. Maybe less jarring when she's put in a scene with Kim Kardashian.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Speaking of which, we have a call.

[D]

Hi. In the Elizabeth Gilbert episode, you guys said for fuck ups to let you know what you'd like, what we'd like to see for November. And I was curious why we stopped speaking about the Kardashians. I personally love them and think they're fabulous and loved when we had the Kardashaholics, you know, Little bit. Are there really that many people that fucking pissed off about the Kardashians? How could you be like a fuckette, not fuck with the Kardashians? Like, I don't know, maybe that's just me. Maybe it's just you and me. I don't know. Serious love to hear about Kardashians, new seasons, all that. It's been a minute since you all talk about them. Okay, bye.

[A]

Love you.

[C]

Yes. Fuck it. It is just you, Chelsea and myself.

[B]

Just us three. No, truly. I mean, there were various reasons as to why we stopped doing the Kardashians segment, but I do think the main one was that we got a lot of shit for it really regularly, and we were just like, fuck it, it's not worth it.

[C]

Yes. The other is that perhaps our partners, on and off, do work in the Satellite of the Kardashians and it feels in poor taste to talk shit about them.

[B]

Yeah. Like, I think it's generally pretty normal to not publicly talk shit about your spouse's employer.

[C]

Yes. We learned from the great Kathy Griffin. We like to talk shit about people behind their back. Like you're supposed to.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

We had a question about our thoughts on Rosalia's new album, Lux. I have to say, as someone who was previously a Rosalia agnostic, I'm fully in.

[B]

Yeah, it's really, really good. I listened to it when I was getting my eyelashes done the other day with my eyes sealed shut, like, in total darkness. And I honestly think that's an amazing way to listen to this record also.

[C]

According to you, this process could take anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour and 30 minutes.

[B]

I was there for a solid hour. I got through the entire album. Yeah. It's rare that pop artists with the fame level of Rosalia make music that is this avant garde, which isn't to say that her music didn't have those elements in it before, but this album specifically, or this album as a whole, is really experimental and really bonkers.

[C]

Well, yeah, let's start with the lead single, Berghain, which is a batshit insane lead single for any pop star to decide to make her lead single.

[B]

Well, it's also extra crazy because it is very much the crescendo of the album. It builds up to that song. So to release that song out of context is a choice. But it is, of course, amazing, although truly wild, that pop singers are just singing opera now. This is not just a Rosalia thing. This is a Beyonce thing. Even when I think about the staging of Gaga's Mayhem Ball, clearly very inspired by opera. Like, literally, what is next? Meghan Trainor?

[C]

Also, we've yet to discuss the fact that Bjork is featured on this song.

[B]

Bjork is on the song. Rosalia has cited both Kate Bush and Bjork as influences musically and just sort of influences within the sphere of pop music, that these are women that actually made music that was very experimental. But, yeah, Bjork's Part of the song is amazing. And in the music video, when Bjork's voice starts coming out of that little bird.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, what drugs do I have to take so that birds sound like that?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Also, I am appreciating what her stylist is doing with her look for this album. All of the clothes are amazing. She's worn a lot of, of course, archival pieces. I'm sick of saying the word archival, but there it is. She's wearing Nicolas Ghesquier Balenciag in that video. She's wearing Alexander McQueen.

[C]

Yeah. I was going to say that a lot of her press looks are very Olivier thaeskins, like, circa 1998, 1999. And then I saw him post on Instagram that she was in one of his leather tops from, like, a 2000 era collection, which. Where did he go?

[B]

I have no idea what he's doing now, but it makes sense that his work would be back in fashion at this point.

[C]

It's certainly on my mood board.

[B]

Also, I love that she wore, like, an early Jeremy Scott dress, the one that Dior was recently accused of plagiarizing.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That Anya Taylor Joy wore. But I love that. And that's also very Bjork. Like, these are designers that Bjork was fucking with at her peak.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like someone might say that this is what were we saying six months ago? Reheated nachos. But it's like, no, these are the correct things to be referencing. I am also sick of archival looks. I'm also sick of sort of nostalgic references, but it's like, ooh, if you're gonna do that, like, do shit that people aren't referencing and also bring them into the fold, like bringing Bjork onto a song.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know if I'm sick of archival looks. I'm just sick of saying the word archival on this podcast to describe something. And I'm sick of the archival looks that don't hit. Some of them hit. Some of them don't. And that's just a fact. But, yeah, with some of Rosalia's recent choices, they're more deep cuts like this Jeremy Scott look.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Which I appreciate.

[C]

Can we talk about some of the other songs on the album?

[B]

Sure. I honestly don't know which one is which because I just listened to it in sequence, and I don't want to try and pronounce the titles either.

[C]

Don't worry. There's already people in our comments saying that I pronounced Bergain incorrectly, I'm sure. So one song I do want to highlight. As someone that loves Lady Gaga's Pinot Grigio Girls, I have a campy soft spot for Sauvignon Blanc, which, like any pop songstress that's naming a song after a white wine is just inherently funny to me. And to your point about, like, is Meghan Trainor gonna sing opera next? It's like, I don't know, is Katy Perry gonna write a song about Riesling?

[B]

How many wines can these bitches go through? Okay, next question.

[C]

What do you do when you're married with kids and have a crush on a colleague who is also married with kids?

[B]

Why did I read this question to the tune of that, like, what would you do if your son was at home?

[A]

Song?

[C]

Oh, I read this like one of those SAT questions where it's like, okay, a train leaves at 4pm and the.

[B]

Car leaves at 2:30pm okay, the answer here is simple. Leave both of your families and start a new life. Or try and get your colleague fired.

[C]

Whoa. Or go to a Coldplay concert. Get put on their jumbo screen. Act real weird. Blow up both of your lives.

[B]

See, the context that we don't have is how serious is this crush? Because if you have a little crush that's totally normal, that might actually make your workday more exciting. But if you have like one of those, like, sad crushes.

[C]

Oh, your point is, like, we don't know if this is a mutual yearning or just completely one sided.

[B]

Yeah. Because when you have an out of control crush on someone that you have to work with every day, that becomes very painful.

[C]

Well, especially if they don't have the same feelings towards you.

[B]

Yeah. I had a friend that was recently in this situation and it honestly only became okay once the guy got another job and left the company.

[C]

And given the way that the jobs market is, I. I don't think either of these people are getting other jobs. I think they're stuck in it.

[B]

So for your sake, I just really hope that this is just like a fun little crush. Which you shouldn't feel bad about, by the way. That's normal.

[C]

The other thing I would counsel is if you both work at a job, I assume there's going to be an office party. Please be mindful of how much you drink because we don't need you making out with this co worker in front of your mutual spouses.

[B]

I also wonder, like, does the co worker have a crush on her too? Is this a situation like Laura Linney and like the Other guy in love, actually, that she goes home with and almost fucks.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Why is it that every single Christmas when I watch that scene, I'm like, I hope things are gonna turn out differently this time.

[C]

You hope that her mentally ill brother doesn't call?

[B]

I'm like, don't pick up the phone, bitch. Step away from the phone.

[C]

Okay, we actually have a call from the hotline.

[D]

Hi, ladies, this is Cass. Longtime fucket. I actually have three totally unrelated questions for you. First one, if you had to wear a clothing brand for the rest of your life, what would it be? Second, I keep seeing on social media this fan casting for a Death becomes her remake with Anne Hathaway in Meryl Streep's role, Kate Hudson as Goldie Hawn, and Lady Gaga as Isabella Rossellini. What do you think about that lineup? I feel like that would be so good. And third point, can we talk about Alexa Demi? I don't understand how she did not blow up like the other actors from Euphoria. I feel like she was like, a really love character and she kind of like, disappeared. Very low key. Anyway, that's all. Okay, bye.

[B]

Great call.

[C]

Honestly, guys, we need more calls like this on the hotline.

[B]

Pack the questions in.

[C]

You'll notice the hotline calls that we are featuring in this episode under a minute long. We love you guys. We love the relationship that we've built. But we have noticed a majority of you use our hotline as a drunk dial on the weekends, which we enjoy.

[B]

The fact that you're drunk. We just wish you asked the question in the first 45 seconds of the call. But anyway, to answer this caller's question, if there's one brand I had to wear for my whole life, I'm going with Yves Saint Laurent. Because there is variety there. I can wear tuxedos. I can wear caftans. I'm assuming I can wear vintage. And I can wear what they're currently making.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

I just. For practical reasons, that is my choice.

[C]

My initial response was Phoebe Filo era Chloe, but I feel like Jean Paul Gaultier is more inclusive of all of my style impulses, which your wife once phrased as romantic business thought.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Death becomes her. I do not support Kate Hudson in the Goldie Hawn role.

[C]

I don't think you have to support it or not support it because this remake is fake news.

[B]

I know it's fake news, but I thought we were just fan casting.

[C]

I mean, it feels like she's like, this movie is going to happen and it's not. All I could find was like, literally a Facebook post fan casting this movie.

[B]

I don't think that Anne Hathaway in the Meryl Streep role is a bad idea, though. I think Lady Gaga would be better in the Goldie Hawn role because of how mentally ill she is in the whole, like, makeover component and stuff.

[C]

Can you remake Death Becomes her in a. Well, one post, the Substance, because we kind of got a remake of Death Becomes Her. It's called the Substance. But also in like, post iPhone filler.

[B]

Face world, I think it's more relevant than ever. Also, you know who I would like to see in the Isabella Rossellini role? Michaela Cole.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Michaela Cole in like some Schiaparelli ass outfit. Like, that's what that character should be.

[C]

Now, wait, aren't we kind of getting that film? That Anne Hathaway, Michaela Cole.

[B]

We're kind of getting that film. That's clearly where my brain is at.

[C]

Which also I think we were supposed to get in the winter of this year and it's been pushed to next year.

[B]

That 20 minute barn dance was scarier than anyone could have imagined.

[C]

Well, Anne Hathaway did that Vogue cover over the summer, which felt like an anticipatory awards run for this film. And then it's been not a peep, not a trailer, not a press still from that movie.

[B]

Okay, last part of this question. Alexa Demi. Yes. The fact that her career isn't bigger than it is post euphoria is one of the great tragedies of the entertainment industry. And it makes me think that maybe she should get new reps or something.

[C]

See, I'm going to assume that it's by choice because Alexa Demi is an extremely cool person. And I frankly just think she's too cool for Hollywood.

[B]

Okay, but she's not cooler than Hunter Schaefer, who has this huge career now.

[C]

But you're also assuming that Alexa Demi wants to do the prequel to the Hunger Games, which I kind of can't see.

[B]

I don't know. The fact that Sydney Sweeney is, like, way more famous than Alexa Demi is wrong.

[C]

Oh, I agree with you. That is fair. However, again, I think Alexa Demi is too cool to do an American Eagle jeans ad. All I'm saying, I'm back to talk about Jones Road Beauty here at the Every Outfit podcast. We love Jones Road Beauty because we're at the age where we need that your skin, but better look. And who better to deliver that than Bobbi Brown, the queen of the no makeup makeup Look, I love a multitasking item, especially makeup, and that's why I use their signature miracle balm daily. You can use it as a tint, a blush, a bronzer or highlighter on the cheeks or on the lips. Or take their just enough tinted moisturizer, as the name alludes to it, is a lightweight tinted moisturizer that smooths and even skin to tone with a soft touch of coverage. Curious about Jones Road or want to give the gift of Jones Road this holiday season? Well, Jones Road has launched their most giftable and exclusive holiday collection yet. All five limited edition kits in the collection are trios that include new holiday shades, products, and packaging. This holiday season, simplify your routine with makeup that's clean, strategic, and multifunctional. From November 18 to December 1, Jones Road is doing their first ever Black Friday sale. Go to JonesRoadBeauty.com to get up to 20% off site wide. That's JonesRoadBeauty.com for up to 20% off your entire order. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you.

[B]

All right, what is a chic and stylish way to store sex toys?

[C]

Dedicated drawer to them.

[B]

I was gonna say a Louis Vuitton train case.

[C]

Ooh, okay.

[B]

Obviously, dedicated drawer to them. Look, you could take cues from Miranda Hobbs, who had a monochromatic bedside drawer where, like, her condoms, her lube, her dildos, and whatever, the drawer liner was all purple.

[C]

I feel like you and I are getting at the same thing, because has Tat ever showed you those videos of decorated fridges where people make, like, whole fridge scapes, where they're putting flowers? Oh, yes, Objects. I think you and I are getting at the same point, which is like. Like, you need to do a sex toy scape, whether that's like, in a luggage trunk, a drawer.

[B]

I mean, instead of focusing on making it chic, I would just try and make it organized, which is something that, like, I'm not even capable of doing.

[C]

Absolutely not. Also, what kind of sex toys do you have? Are we talking about dildos? Are we talking about handcuffs?

[B]

Nipple clamps? You know what? I do have a tip for storing sex toys while traveling. This is what dust bags are for. I also do think that the Margiela dust bags for shoes, which are elasticized, are especially great for this purpose.

[C]

Thank you for doing this research for all of us.

[B]

Chelsea, what is the Chicest deodorant to use?

[C]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to give a cool answer. But the chicest deodorant is the one that doesn't give you bo. And I'm sorry, those are ones that have aluminum. I have been using a ban roll on powder fresh scent since I was a teenager.

[B]

Girl. What?

[C]

That shit works.

[B]

I mean, when I'm going for that vibe, I'll at least do a dove or something just elevated slightly. The chicest deodorant is the ATK deodorant balm. I do not believe it has aluminum. I'm not a particularly sweaty person. I don't use it every day, but I have used it because tat bought it recently and it comes in a little like metal tube that you squeeze on and the whole thing is incredibly chic.

[C]

It is incredibly chic. I would worry that my husband would think that this is hand lotion instead of deodorant.

[B]

Well, that's a you problem.

[C]

All right, thoughts on Ghost World. You guys have never talked about it. That feels impossible.

[B]

I don't believe that. We at the very least must have referenced Ileana Douglas's art, her video art as the wacky art teacher.

[C]

This movie and graphic novel were my north star as a teenager. It is probably the reason I wanted to have a black bob in the first place. This movie oddly also predicted my high school life. Like post high school graduation, I did drift apart from my best friend. I had a semi combative relationship with my art teacher who made very bad art. I however, did not sleep with a much older man and ruin his life.

[B]

Well, did she really ruin his life?

[C]

He has no job, home, he ends up in a hospital. Yeah, I think she ruined his. Always makes me so sad. Sibuscemi hates talking about Ghost World. And like the quotes he's given about it is that the film made him feel deeply uncomfortable and he hated doing the love scene with Thora Birch.

[B]

That's crazy to me. It's also wholesome for me. Ghost World, perfect script, perfect cast, perfect costumes, based on a perfect book. Daniel Clowes, one of the great artists of the 90s. And yeah, it's very specific representation of an alt girl that lives in a kind of boring town.

[C]

Even though it's shot in Los Angeles.

[B]

But you know, yeah, like her world feels kind of small. And I also like all of the sort of 50s and 60s stylistic touches that we get in that movie. Whether it's like the shitty fake 50s diner that they eat at, some of the costuming, the fact that Thora Burch's character is obsessed with these 60s Bollywood movies. Yeah, it's perfect. And while a highly specific story about a highly specific kind of person, kind of a universal message about when you're kind of stuck between high school and joining the quote unquote, real world.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway, that is a movie that I watched so many times as a teenager that like I had to just have a moratorium on it for a decade. And I recently rewatched it. It like a month or two ago. It's on Tubi.

[B]

It really holds up. Also, I thought about Daniel Clows the other day because I saw an Instagram post. Do you remember ok Soda?

[C]

No.

[B]

It was, I think Coca Cola actually did manufacture it or one of the large soft drink companies, but it was a soda that was marketed towards Gen X and they had Daniel Clows do the art for it. And it was called okay Soda because it was just sort of a cheeky, like Gen X, like whatever, semi nihilistic kind of mentality about soda drinking.

[C]

This is like a plot line out of reality Bites. Like this.

[B]

Google it.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

It's actually some of the better packaging that we've gotten in the last 50 years. I mean, these probiotic soda brands now wish they could do something this major.

[C]

Sorry, I just found an article that says that one time Coca Cola made a dystopian soda.

[B]

Yep. All right. Have you watched the Murdaugh Murders on Hulu? Yes. I am a Patricia Arquette true crime limited series completist and therefore, of course I have watched this. I haven't finished it yet, though.

[C]

I have not. And I've realized, I think the thing that has changed in me since having a child other than losing brain cells is I cannot handle serial killer true crime shit anymore. Especially stuff about like murdering children or murdering your son. Spoiler alert. I guess it's a known, not a spoiler alert.

[B]

Okay, I get it. You don't want to bring dark energy into your home. And there's no darker family situation than the Murdaughs.

[C]

I also don't want to bring Jason Clark and those prosthetics into my home.

[B]

Is this the guy that plays Murdaugh?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, he's really great. Patricia Arquette, also great. Also our girl Brittany Snow is in this playing a journalist.

[C]

Okay. Brittany Snow is in some show that I do want to watch on Netflix with Claire Danes and Matthew Reese called the Beast in me.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I started watching that. She is also in that. She's everywhere. She's had a really good year. So, yeah, if you're interested in the case, definitely Watch the show.

[C]

I mean, if you're interested in the case, there's definitely a bunch of, like, Dateline and 48 Hours episodes about it already.

[B]

Yeah, well, there was a whole other true crime limited series about it that I also watched.

[C]

Oh, wow. You're Murdoch Held.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, next call.

[D]

I just wanted to bring something to your attention and also get your take on it. I follow Cher on Instagram, as I'm sure we all do. And I just noticed on her stories that she's been reposting this thing about, like, Share Lotto. And I'm like, it looks like basically she has, like, her own gelato brand. I just read part one one of her memoir, and I'm like, I don't really remember her having, like, a huge affinity for gelato. Like, it wasn't mentioned once in. So I'm just kind of confused, like, the shared gelato pipeline. I'm not mad at it, honestly. I'm sure there's some awesome flavors if she's, like, the mastermind behind this. But I'm just so, like, just confused about, like, how gelato fits into Cher's world. So, anyway, just wanted to see if you were aware of this, if you had any information, and we'd love to know your thoughts. Okay, bye.

[B]

I'm just confused about how gelato fits into Cher's world.

[C]

Well, I was going to say this is my other favorite genre of call that we get, which is is I could Google this, but I'm not going to. I'm going to find your hotline number and leave this message in the hopes that maybe weeks to months from now, you will answer this question. It has existed since 2003. There is a Vogue article about Cher's gelato line called Share Lotto. And I too have read the first part of Cher's biography, which does not talk about gelato. But in this interview From Vogue from 2023, she discusses that as a child, she really loved the Good Humor man, and so she's always loved ice cream, which I kind of call bullshit on.

[B]

Yeah, I can't even imagine her eating ice cream. Like, I know she's naturally thin, but I don't know, there's something about Cher that just makes me imagine big salads and lean protein.

[C]

So evidently, in 2018, she was in Auckland, New Zealand, and she found this gelato shop.

[B]

Shop.

[C]

And according to this Vogue article, Cher has long dreamed of creating her own ice cream brand.

[B]

The most curious thing about Cher Lotto, though, is the branding and how uncher like it is because if you go to the website, there's, like, a bunch of photos of her that are made to look like, in the style of Warhol. If you put zero effort into executing that. And the share lotto logo, I don't know, gives me the same vibe as the original Twitter logo. Not the bird, but, like, the spelled out Twitter.

[C]

Well, did you notice that on the Share lotto website, the last update is from last year announcing that they were having a share lotto pop up from July 1st to July 31st at the Abbey.

[B]

Well, when you go on the website, which I don't think has been updated in years, the only, like, place you can get share lotto is the Abbey. Like, there's, like, a map of Los Angeles. There's a single pin.

[C]

The Abbey.

[B]

Cher's mistake in this is not getting Cher lotto into grocery stores. Like, you can't just buy a pint of it the way that you can buy, like, Dolly Parton's cake mix or whatever.

[C]

Well, yeah, in this Vogue article, they discussed the fact that there is not even, like, a cute ice cream truck. It is a food truck that they've converted into a share lotto. I guess moving pop up. This escaped us.

[B]

Hey, it worked for Van Leeuwen. Look at them.

[C]

All right, next question. Where do you start when you realize that your whole wardrobe sucks? How do you find your personal style?

[B]

These were, like, two different questions that I combined together, because I feel like we will make similar points in regards to where do you start when you realize that your whole wardrobe sucks? I would say this has happened to me a couple times in my life, and the only solution is to get rid of all your shit and start from scratch. There's no other way.

[C]

I'm right there with this person because I'm in the process of doing a massive of clean out of my closet. There are things that are just not relevant to the person I am anymore. There are things that just don't fit. And I was gonna say that, actually, the impulse to throw everything away is strong, and I guarantee that your entire wardrobe doesn't suck. Like, I did end up saving more things than I thought. Although you're now making me think, like, maybe I should just, like, get rid of everything and start again.

[B]

No, you have great clothes. You shouldn't get rid of everything. But me and Tat can go in there and do a final pass if you would like.

[C]

Thank you. There's two ways to go about this, right? You can find inspiration first and shop to the inspiration, or you can attempt to build A capsule or do a mixture of the two of like have a couple references and then build a wardrobe of just pieces you would wear. You know, a good camel pant, a good black pant, a good pair of jeans.

[B]

Yeah, you have to start with, with the most basic kind of separates. Jeans, button downs, sweaters, that kind of shit. I've realized something recently though, and we've often made reference to Donna Karan's seven Easy pieces philosophy. She is correct. But you actually need 14 pieces because you need two different versions of everything. Like take a white button down shirt for example. You need an oversized like men's one and then you need a cropped one. For a black pant you need maybe a more like oversized one that hits the floor and you need like a more tailored, potentially cropped black pant. Because getting dressed, mixing things together, it's all about proportions. And you can't just have one pair of black pants that goes with everything else. It's just not possible.

[C]

I agree with you and I feel like once you do that, then you add a third iteration of those wardrobe items which is like, like an eccentric version of that. Like something that makes an outfit pop. Like an eccentric version of a white shirt. Like I just got from the realreal, like a high neck asymmetrical button down shirt for sure.

[B]

But I do encourage this fucket to start with the most foundational pieces because it's like building a house. If the foundation is fucked, doesn't matter what sort of statement pieces you try and decorate it with later.

[C]

I'm also, personally I'm thinking a lot about what I actually wear and what situations I'm actually in. Because I feel like as someone that is just compulsively shops, I'll buy things with the idea of like, I'll wear this at this kind of event instead of working backwards, which is like, girl, you're home most of the time. Like find home outfits that are not sweatpants.

[B]

Truly, I feel like you have like 40 pairs of trousers and like 40 blazers and there's like no world in which like those clothes are seeing the light of day or all of those clothes. Because you're either hanging out at home wearing a sweater, sweatpants, something more casual, or you're kind of putting on a little I'm going out outfit.

[C]

This is my point. There's no middle. It's just comfortable or dressed up is what I've realized. And I'm shopping too much for this middle ground. As if, yes, I'm a little business lady also.

[B]

As for the Question about how do you find your personal style? If this is a question that you're asking, you don't need to have a personal style. Having a personal style is overrated. You don't have to express yourself through fashion. You should just buy nice, timeless, well made, simple clothes. Don't try and force it because half the people that do have personal style, like, they still end up looking like shit.

[C]

What was your personal style in middle school?

[B]

Not good, I was going to say.

[C]

Yeah, not great. Really A victim of my time, which was the early 2000s.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't have personal style. I bought clothing based on the fact that there was a wet seal in the mall. I had the Delia's catalog coming in the mail.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And I was a fan of the movie Clueless, so I had my mini backpack and my little tartan skirt and that kind of shit. I wore a lot of, like, you know, brown corduroy flares and stuff that was probably like, like mass market versions of, like, what Prada had been doing a few years previously.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Looking back at photos of me when I was 13, 14, a lot of low rise jeans that I really regret. But I thankfully went to a school with a uniform, which I think really saved me from a lot of fashion mistakes since I had to wear a polo shirt and khakis for the majority of the week. But there's some things that I wore at that time that I stand by. Like, I was able to convince my mom to buy me a few Betsy Johnson pieces that I foolishly gave away that I regret to this day. And in junior high, I loved a furry bag, and I stand by that I still love a furry bag.

[B]

Yeah, I think there were great clothes for tweens during that era, but I was just in such an awkward stage that, like, nothing was going to look good. I think a part of the reason why I got so into fashion is because I felt so awkward and uncomfortable and hated the way that I looked when I was in middle school. So I was like, what can I do to have people see me in a different way? But, Lauren, one item of clothing that really fucking haunts me that I had, it was a baby tee. It said fashion on it. And then it had a little baby chick, like a photo of it. I think it was like fashion chick was like the pun, the visual pun of this particular baby tee. And I wore it with a pair of, like, baggy sort of pinstriped trousers with suspenders.

[C]

How very Brittany Murphy post Cher Horowitz makeover in Clueless.

[B]

Yeah. It was bad. It was real bad.

[C]

Well, clearly you're still haunted by it.

[B]

Yeah, I am. Next question. What is the best glamorous women having nervous breakdowns film for a sleepover? See, my thing is, most of these movies are not fit for sleepovers.

[C]

Oh, my God. I was gonna say the same thing. They're too sad.

[B]

They're too sad. Like, do you really want to watch Melancholia at the sleepover?

[C]

Chelsea? I literally. That was gonna be my example of, like, do you want to be sitting on the couch with all the girlies watching Melancholia?

[B]

Yeah. Like, you're not watching Piano Teacher at the sleepover. You're not watching Persona at the sleepover. My suggestion is to lean into the sub genre within this genre, which is the really campy ones. An example would be Valley of the Dolls.

[C]

Ooh.

[B]

That is, I was about to say, a great movie. It's not a great movie, but it's a great movie to watch. And it's very funny. Also, Serial Mom. It is a comedy. It's light, it's fun. It's not that deep. Or this film really exists on the fringe of the genre. But I will say the First Wives Club does start with a glamorous woman having a nervous breakdown.

[C]

Yeah. Stalker Channing killing herself.

[B]

Spoiler alert.

[C]

See, I was going to say Black Swan is probably the closest to a glamorous woman having a nervous breakdown film that you could watch with the group. I was gonna say, I honestly think that we need to make a compilation clip package of the best moments of this genre to be watched at sleepovers or to play in the background at parties. So I'm talking about, like, taking Julianne Moore's pharmacy freak out from Magnolia. Michelle Pfeiffer destroying her apartment in Batman Returns. Isabelle Ujani's freakout in the subway in possession. Because the other issue is they're long movies.

[B]

True. Also, if we did do that, Glenn Close's breakdowns alone could account for, like, 10 minutes of material. Also, I know you're behind with watching All's Fair, but Glenn Close does have a pretty crazy breakdown that is on the level of, like, Dangerous Liaisons. I mean, not as fab, but it reminded me of that watching it.

[C]

So watch Black Swan with the girlies or wait for our montage of all our favorite glamorous women having nervous breakdown moments. This episode is brought to you by mubi, the global film company that champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there is always something new to discover. Speaking of which, have you ever wondered what would have happened if Carrie moved upstate with Aiden and had a child? Well, you're in luck, because Mubi's latest release, Die My Love, answers that question. I'm kidding. Sort of. Die My Love is a visceral and uncompromising portrait of a woman played by Jennifer Lawrence, engulfed by love and madness against the backdrop of new motherhood, while her husband, played by Robert Pattinson, seemed completely oblivious to her unraveling. The film also marks the return of one of our cinematic favorites, Dave's Lynne Ramsey. Her visuals and sonic landscape of the film infused this domestic story with a punk rock attitude that was sorely missing from that Sex and the City episode where Aiden takes Carrie up to his cabin in Suffern. Die My Love is now showing only in theaters. Visit mubi.com dye My love for showtimes and tickets and to stream great films at home, you can try MUBI free for 30 [e-mail] every outfit. Then that's mbi.com every outfit for a whole month of great cinema for free. And now we are taking a short break from listener questions to talk to a very special guest. She is a musician, a muse, and a New York it girl. Just like Carrie Bradshaw. Welcome to Every outfit, Princess Nokia.

[A]

Thank you, Chelsea and Lauren for having me.

[B]

Of course. I'm so excited because we've never met in person before, but you are a fuckette and I'm dying to talk to you about your new record Girls because it has so many great cultural references and I want to start with the song Phoebe Philo which we played at the top of the show. Why did you decide to name check Phoebe specifically? And have you heard from any of the it girls that are referenced on this song?

[A]

I think that I chose to name drop Phoebe Filo because I thought it was such a cunty reference that I had not heard any of my peers do and I don't really hear them reference the early aughts it girl fashion such as Stella McCartney or Chloe or early product. And I just thought, yes, I don't wear that stuff and perhaps I don't know certain collections by heart, but I know the very essence of what that woman is because I've always been her and I loved Chloe Sevignier growing up and watching Ex Girl and loving all of those divas who are in alignment together. But I just thought Phoebe Filo. It's an anagram. It's so mouthy and it's. It's just such a. It's a flex, a subtle one. But like I said, I'm not the most fashionista person. I just think that I embody the spirit, and I kind of wanted to just have a little fun with that.

[B]

I think you're a big fashionista. For one thing. You showed up here today wearing a foffy shirt, which I love this.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

One of my favorite illustrators as well. And wait, you have a tattoo also?

[A]

I do. I have a tattoo of one of her Paris murals.

[B]

I still have, like, a vinyl figurine that I honestly probably bought at Kid robot in, like, 2002 or something.

[A]

She did so many wonderful collaborations. Covers Adidas, Kid Robot, Jeremy Scott. Yes. Yeah. Manger.

[C]

So the album opens with an interlude that includes a really incredible clip that I feel like has recently resurfaced of Courtney Love talking about the backlash to her Versace makeover from, I believe, the 1998 Oscars for the Fuckettes, who need a little more context. We'll drop in the clip here. We, as females have thousands and thousands.

[B]

Of years of fashion in our DNA.

[C]

We want to wear nice clothes. It's part of what we do.

[B]

So I don't have an issue with it.

[C]

If you have an opportunity to go to the Oscars in a fabulous gown.

[B]

And be absolutely fabulous, you're going to take it. I was like, listen to a rule.

[C]

Who made that rule? Some dumb guy. What spoke to you about this moment in particular? Because this moment from 25 years ago is having a moment again.

[A]

I think that Courtney Love is having a moment again, because I think that the blurred glasses of patriarchy are just, like, being broken, and people are like, you know what? She was really onto something. You know what? She was pretty genius. You know what? We didn't give her as much grace. She was really fierce, and she was really ahead of her time. And I think that every so often, misunderstood woman, glamorous woman, having nervous breakdowns, they always come back into the zeitgeist. Because, truthfully, I think women will always be empathized because we, as a society, we support women's rights and women's wrongs. And when you have such a polarizing figure like that, who does stand for so much fashion rock, individuality, autonomy. I just think that the girls go, oh, yeah, she's. She's her. She's her. And I think that I chose to use that clip specifically. I always think that there is this, like, underbelly, underspoken conversation between out people that doesn't allow out people to be glamorous or rich or luxurious. And it's always like that. You're this, the selling out, the. You're. You have to be like a crystal deodorant wearing ass bitch to like, you know what I mean? And it's like, it's so gross. And she was like, I don't need to subscribe to this ridiculousness. And she said it, she said it's in our female DNA to look glamorous, to be pampered, which is true. It's a biological destiny. So I just thought that was fascinating and I wanted to put that at the very front of the record.

[B]

Well, it reminds me of you very specifically because it's like Courtney went to the Oscars, she was in the Versace campaign. You also are a very subversive artist, yet you were in the Margiela fragrance campaign a while back. And also amused to our mutual friend Erin McGee who does made me, which is so amazing. But I want to hear about your sort of relationship with these brands of these fashion designers.

[A]

I have the greatest story for you guys that I haven't been able to tell anyone. And it's with John Galliano. It's about that time I did spend with the Margiela artslier in Paris. So I was asked to be a part of the Mutiny campaign and I thought it was fabulous and wonderful. So I get to Paris and I show up at the Azie and is outside of Paris, maybe 30 minutes outside of Paris, very interesting suburb place. And it's like this interesting building. And I get there and I'm the first model there. No one has showed up yet. And it's me and John smoking cigarettes and fitting me. And we get along immediately because he speaks Spanish because he's from Gibraltar and we just start speaking in a bilingual kind of like Godfather daughter kind of moment. And he has really taken to me by because I'm a great conversationist and because no one else was there. We just enjoyed each other's company. And he thought I was very well spoken. And out of all the people in the world, I could have all the wonderful things in the world. Some people don't think I'm very great or pay me any acknowledgement. And he paid me so much acknowledgement. We're at the atelier, we're working on it. He's fitting me in this incredible like custom made trench that they do. And it's really cool. As the days go by, I think two days pass, I'm on set, it's about to be my time to shoot. So what we're doing is we're collectively all the models, it was like, me, Teddy, Willow. I don't really remember the other girls names, and I don't mean to say that to be rude. They're all fabulous. I just didn't know them personally. We're all gonna do something individual, not with each other in front of a camera. And whatever we do individually is gonna make up this commercial. And. And John goes, my darling, come with me, come with me, come with me. I have something in mind for you. I said, what? So he brings me to the side and he asks me to put on some headphones. And he goes, do you know Joan Baez? And I said, yes, I know her. And he goes, do you know Diamonds and Rust? And I go, I don't know Diamonds and Rust. He goes, my darling, you have to listen to this song. This is what I need you to listen to. So he puts the song on and I'm listening to it, and it's like both of our minds are computers because we're. We're downloading each other's emotions and everything he's putting down, I'm picking up. And he goes, do you feel this, my darling? This is the song that she wrote for Bob Dylan. He said, the cufflinks, the robin, blue egg eyes. It's just like. And he said, do you feel the longing. Do you feel the longing of her calling him in the middle of the night, 1967, in the middle of the folk revolution? And I'm like, yes, I do, actually.

[C]

I really do.

[A]

I know all about it. He's like, you feel that? You feel that? Take it, take it. And then he puts. He goes, I want you to dance to this. I know you have it in you. So they put on Diamonds and Rust. And I'm not a professional dancer, but I am quite a great dancer. And there's a person with a body camera, very interesting body camera that's connected on a rig, all underbody, and it's an empty white studio. And he goes, put on the song my daughter dance, and dun dun. And. And I did this beautiful interpretive dance for six minutes straight without stopping. It was really powerful. It was very poignant. And at the end, I had all these French people stand up and cry, and it was really powerful. And he came over and he said, my darling, I knew you could do it. I knew it. Oh. And then we smoked cigarettes and talked about sex and culture and it was so fun. And that was the. I think, one of the biggest highlights and biggest fashion moments of my life.

[B]

I mean, that's amazing. First of All. I can't imagine that anyone could dance to Diamonds and Rust, so kudos to you for. But I feel like I would be so overwhelmed by the emotion of, like, listening to that song, talking to John Galliotter, that I would just burst into tears if I was in that situation.

[A]

I was in tears because when it ended, I was on the floor on my knees, and there was like a breath and then there's, oh, my God. And I was crying because I definitely caught the spirit of something I did.

[C]

I'm sure you did.

[A]

And then I went home. That was it.

[B]

I love. I want to go back to Courtney, though, because this album reminds me of Courtney a lot. Especially Blue Velvet. Not musically, but conceptually in the. In the sense that you're talking very overtly about violence against women, but you're juxtaposing it with this very glamorous, very girly sort of imagery. So I guess I just wanted to sort of hear your thought process behind that song in particular and the album as a whole. I think that song, to me anyway, kind of feels like the thesis statement of the record.

[A]

It is. It's the. The leader of the team. And I think that I found a fascination with David lynch by listening to the podcast. You guys are big fans of the Lynchian world, and I'm always hearing incredible name drops and movie needle drops from. I mean, I think two years of you guys always referencing Mulholland Drive, Twin Peaks, just David lynch in general. And when I was younger, I think in my early 20s, I attempted to watch Blue Velvet, and it scared the shit out of me because I'm very adverse to sexually heinous based crimes like svu.

[B]

Aren't we all?

[A]

You're not, though. That's your favorite show. And oh, my God. So I always heard such wonderful things from you guys. And I've always known that he is a lovely person and an amazing artist and a gentle man. And when he passed away, I had this stricken resonance and I said, I think I'm ready to revisit his work. So I did. And I watched Fire Walk with me and Twin Peaks and I just thought, oh, my God, I get it now. I'm glad I have the stomach for it. I didn't know really who Laura Palmer was, and when I got to download it all, it was like being 13 again and discovering something major. And I really was in that moment. So I digested the work, but I didn't make the song Twin Peaks because it just didn't sound fab. Like, when I put the track list together. I said, blue Velvet sounds better. It looks like a track list of ingredients or makeup products. I went with Blue Velvet more because when I reference the song, I think, who am I? I'm a girl that likes Lynchian references and I smoke a lot of weed. So to use the reference in a hip hop, metaphorical way, I'm David lynch, babe. I'm smoking Blue Velvet like I'm just on some other kind of shit. And Blue Dream or Blue Velvet, I'm smoking on something and I'm smoking on the ghost of David Lynch. I love that. Like, in native culture, when we smoke tobacco, we are in alignment with the spirit world. So I like those little, you know, just little things that I take from my upbringing and my folkloric narrative. And I just thought, what a great song to share my truth without it being like, God, this is an estrogen fest. You know, Like, I just. I wanted to make something that was cool and that was poignant and that was provocative and that spoke things that were very, you know, powerful.

[B]

Well, it's really beautiful and it's really impressive, but I will say this album is a bit of an estro. Estrogen fest. Your words.

[C]

I was gonna say, I think that David lynch would approve of this song for no other reason than he was a lifelong smoker himself.

[A]

True. It is. He went out with emphysema.

[B]

He knew it did get his ass in the end, though.

[A]

It got my grandma, too. It's fine.

[B]

Rip.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To these legends.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So can we talk about the album cover for a second?

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

For the uninitiated, it features you posing, I would say, defiantly in bloody underwear. And just how did that concept originate? And more importantly, did you get pushback from your label that you wanted to use this image, or were they cool with that? Did they feel like it was gonna offend a lot of people? Has it. I think it's incredibly cool.

[A]

I think so, too. Thank you, baby. No, I didn't have any pushback. I have a really supportive music group and colleagues and team. When I submitted, they said, we think it's fantastic. Brilliant. It's so beautiful. And I have a lot of women on my team. And they said, we want to cross reference it to see if it'll get censored on DSPs. And I did a quick cross reference myself. I looked up all albums with blood on it, and there were so many examples. Bloody noses, bloodied women, battered women, lots of blood and doom. And I said, okay, well, this all spans from the last 15 years. There's no censorship. So when I showed them that, they said, oh, great. And they took the lead from that, and that was cool. I think that the album cover came out naturally. I wanted to anchor some artwork or something in the girls world with menstruation waking up in menstruation or having just fresh blood. But I didn't know that my period was going to come two days before that shoot. And I use a diva cup. So I said, okay, I had a whole bunch of fake blood packed and a whole bunch of cotton white pants, but I'd already had my period. And because I use the diva cup, I don't mean to be an oversharer, but it changed my life. I have really healthy, very, very crimson red blood. No pain, no cramping, no anything. So all I have to do is take out my diva cup, and usually I'll have a good maybe half an ounce of blood in it. And it looks so fresh. So I said, I'm in art brain. When I'm on set, I'm directing, I'm assisting, I'm doing everything. I'm just like an art savant. And I said, darvis, I said, my egg just dropped.

[B]

We got this.

[A]

Let's go.

[C]

Pack it up.

[A]

And I took the white panties and I took the diva cup and I put the blood on it like an artist would. And I said, oh, this looks fabulous. Funnily enough, that red shirt I'm wearing, I had not packed any T shirts. I packed all these bikinis, all these pastel things. And instead of nothing to fucking wear on my down to. And my younger sister, who I am a bit estranged from, was with me on the trip. And she said, I have a red shirt. And I said, great, can I wear it? And I photoshopped girls onto it. It was a natural photo. It's my real blood. And I just thought, this is subversive. I think pretty is beautiful, but it's boring sometimes. I wanted to straddle the lines of not being basic while I am pretty basic. And I wanted to do things that were provocative and a little subversive that I enjoy. Not perverted, but obscure take on art. And I think that's how I express myself in my career and my project. I lean into the obscure when I believe that I need to express myself wholeheartedly. So it all kind of came naturally and organically. And I've had no one really write any think pieces or tell me I'm gross. That's the thing. People in my world don't pay attention to me enough. They Pretend they don't. I know that. I know that I have my own obscure world in my own environment. So I think that I've only ever just gotten. Like, you're very bold for that. Like, I respect you a lot for that. I couldn't do something like that, which, truthfully, a lot of people and women wouldn't, you know, I think they'd make people uncomfortable. And I think that I live in a world where I don't know, subscribe to anyone's values. So it's all been a very positive experience since then.

[B]

To me, the album cover feels very riot girl, or maybe even like 70s performance artist or something. But was the Lil Kim David lachapelle image any part of a reference? Or is that a completely different world? Because that's the only other image that I can think of in my head where period blood is presented in this way.

[A]

I don't think I know that image.

[B]

Oh, honey, let me show it to you right now.

[C]

Little Kim.

[A]

I thought you were referring to her Legs wide open.

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, my God. I love this. Had no clue.

[B]

Isn't that the coolest thing ever?

[A]

The coolest thing. This is main.

[B]

It's very different than your cover because it's so stylized and like, it's like some demented romance novel or something. But I couldn't help but think of it when I saw your album so pretty.

[C]

Also, when you were speaking, I was thinking about speaking of riot girl and aesthetics and menstruation. Is it L7 chell where the lead singer, during a concert, ripped out her tambo, threw it at the office?

[A]

I love. That's one of my favorite pop culture moments. Moments of all time. I love that.

[B]

It's the best.

[A]

She was so pissed. They were being so mean to her, right? They were just being so gross.

[B]

But that's the ultimate punk. Like, fuck you to the crowd.

[C]

Especially a crowd of men who probably wanted to see Metallica or something.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I can't imagine what that was like for them, having the absolute wrong crowd for that show. Speaking of divas, however, a lot of the contemporary pop girlies are name dropped on this record. Rosalia Chapel, Lauda, Nicki Minaj, of course. Like, are these all of your faves, or did some girls not make the cut?

[A]

Oh, I think a lot of girls didn't make the cut. That'd just be, like, listing my special interests. And I think divas and women in music is my special interest. I've never been interested in men in rap. I only like the girls. I only Like Lauryn Hill, lechat, Little Kim, Foxy Brown. I mean, I. I know all of them, and I have a special relationship with all of their music. Do I know any of them personally? Not from Adam. But I name dropped those specific women because they were who I was listening to in 2024, when I think I was living happily. I was staying in my house, my property, and I had this really girly sleepover with my cousin Beth. It was Brad, Summer Chapel, Roan just came out. All these pop girls. It was kind of reminded me of when all the female singer songwriters took over in the 90s and all the hair metal guys just, like, became obsolete. And I love that because all the male singers just became obsolete. All the outdated boy bands, all the what have yous going through their own arrest development, like, so boring. And I was like, oh, it's all about girls. It's all about girls. And these are all different kind of girls. They all have their own thing going on. My cousin's a metalhead. She likes, like, Ted New and Black sabbath. And she's 22. She's very young. I said, do you know Charlie? No, let's put her on. You know, Chapel? No, let's put her on. And me and her are just having this, like, banji sleepover. And I was like, wow. I found myself a lot of my identity in that summer. So I refer to it as the summer of pop. And I wanted to, like, kind of just show the mind of a girl who has special interests, not someone who's, like, connected to these people or wants to be seen or acknowledged by them, just the interests of my.

[B]

I think, well, this album is just so, so good. And you should be so, so proud of it. It's really fabulous. And I recommend that all of the Fuckettes give it a listen, if you haven't already. But now I want to pivot because we have saved some special questions from listeners. Some hotline calls for you. If you would like to stick around.

[A]

I'm here. I'm queer.

[B]

Speaking of queer relationships, I'm really obsessed with this first question. Is Ms. Piggy abusive or are we kink shaming a healthy dom sub relationship?

[A]

We are kink shaming a healthy dom sub relationship. I also really got into Miss Piggy. Because you love Miss Piggy, Chelsea.

[B]

You know?

[A]

I do, I do. You guys are like my cool sisters. Like, I don't know, but, like, have pen pals. And I'm like, everything they love. I want to give it a second look. So I started watching the Muppets again. I said, oh, my God, what have I been missing? I watched the. The 2015 adaptation of the Muppets, the Office adaptation, fell in love with her, watched it, got so stoned, I was, like, losing my mind. And then I heard the announcement of Cole Escola. Is it Margot Robbie or Greta Gerwick?

[C]

Emma Stone. Emma Stone and Jennifer Lawrence are going to produce it.

[A]

And I was like, oh, I'm so in. She's major. I love her. Her. She's the most glamorous woman in the world.

[B]

She is the most glamorous woman, but also, like, even I will admit that she is abusive. Like, she is verbally and physically abusive to Kermit and also any woman that crosses Kermit's path, basically.

[C]

But, Chelsea, when you teed up this question, you were like, speaking of queer relationships, are you saying that Miss Piggy and Kermit are in a lavender marriage?

[B]

No, I'm saying that, like, Kermit and Miss Piggy remind me of a very specific queer couple, which is, like, a very voluptuous, high femme woman and, like, a very tiny butch or like, sometimes a trans man that, like, wears a harness out.

[A]

I knew them a lot in high school.

[B]

Yeah, we all know one of those couples.

[C]

I mean, perhaps I'm projecting, but is there not something in the middle between kink shaming and healthy sub dom relationship? Can a man just not love a bitchy woman?

[B]

True. Okay, next question. Is it ever okay to wear Uggs out of the house? And if so, with what? Of course, what's cuter than Uggs?

[C]

I do have an answer, although it is a sort of time travel travel specific answer, which is you need to be holding a coffee bean and tea leaf blended beverage, and it needs to be the year 2004, and preferably, you should be Britney Spears in Malibu, Misha.

[A]

Barton at Fred Seagull. Yes, I agree. I'm with you, baby. I love that.

[B]

Yeah, see, I love an Ugg. I'm in New York right now, and I brought Uggs here. I brought my little ankle cut black. I think they're so cute. It's like you wear your Uggs with a sweatpant. I'm not ready to do the whole, like, tucking a skinny jean into them again, like, that was the very, like, Kate Moss, like, Sienna Miller thing. But I also think we're on the precipice of, like, an ankle cut Ugg boot and a denim miniskirt coming back.

[A]

Oh, I think I still do that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. That's already back.

[A]

That was who I was at 12. I was very into California fashion and a budding fashionist at 12 years years old. And I loved Nicole Richie. I loved all the girls that we're referencing to. And I remember I found a pair of fake ones at Payless. Was so jazzed. I found the fake ones. I was like, wait, I've got my Uggs. And when I wore them to church that Sunday, I got so made fun of because they were like, what. What is. What are you wearing? And I had a denim cut skirt that I sewed buttons into. I felt so cool. I felt so kitschy and. And little. Two years, they caught on. And I just felt so cool for being ahead. I think that was, like, only thing that I was so ahead of.

[B]

I mean, Uggs in church is iconic. I'm obsessed with that.

[A]

We didn't have to dress up in our church.

[B]

Okay, we have a call from the hotline.

[D]

Hi, ladies. Fuck it, Husband here.

[A]

I think I missed the Afghanistan anything.

[D]

But my question is, if Sex and the City were real, Samantha's definitely in.

[B]

The Epstein files, right?

[D]

All right, thanks so much. Bye.

[B]

Honestly, probably because Samantha would have no fewer than, like, 20 pictures with Ghislaine Maxwell on Patrick McMullen, but if she is in the Epstein files, it's not because she, like, went to the island or is, like, implicated in any sort of crime. It's because he probably. Probably like, emailed her for some PR advice.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

That's my thought. Lauren.

[C]

Oh, you don't think her and Richard Wright on his private set, went to Epstein's Island?

[B]

You're right. Richard really dragged her down to the depths of hell.

[A]

I had a. I had a Pollyanna take on it. I said, no. And you know why I thought that today? I was thinking about it. And I said, you know, in that scene in that episode where she is being courted by the older gentleman and Donald Trump is. In fact, in the episode, I said, she's very sexually adverse and adventurous, but she only lasted one night with that gentleman. So I said, how big is her tolerance for weird, you know, things? If she. If she couldn't even get the Tiffany necklace with a little. With. She couldn't even.

[C]

She.

[A]

She liked having sex with him, but she left as soon as she saw his butt. I said, if anybody's on that list, it's Annabelle Bronstein. And that was my only option. Optimistic take. I said, she's fun. I don't think she's that fun. I definitely think she would have been rounded up in some PR emails.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know if you've seen.

[B]

These emails, but Larry Lauren's read all 100,000 of them.

[A]

It's important to stay involved. I have not actually seen them, but I think that's also because I, like, put a blinder on.

[C]

No, you have better things to do with your time. I obviously don't. I mean, it's mostly from what I've seen, just bizarre emails of like, Larry Summers, who's this very wealthy man, emailing Epstein, being like, this woman isn't a sex worker, is she? She really likes me for me. And then like, weird emails having to do with dinner parties with Woody Allen and SUNY Previn, which, let me just say, Samantha would not obviously stand for the sex trafficking stuff. However, Samantha is incredibly attracted to power. It's the reason why in the public pilot episode, she wants to sleep with Mr. Big.

[B]

And so I think he's in the Epstein files.

[C]

He is also in the Epstein files, but she's definitely been at one of those weird dinner parties with Epstein and Jelaine Maxwell and like Woody Allen and Suny Previn and like Alan Dershowitz.

[A]

Woody Sun Ye. I remember.

[B]

Okay. Someone also asked us for thoughts on Audrey Holbert's new song, Sex in the City. If you guys have guys haven't heard this, we'll play a clip now.

[A]

This isn't Sex City. Nobody sees me knows if my call Nobody sees me at all it's the problem. But of course, when they do, they're not the one that I want to But I go to the bar I'm a believer so if I like it yeah, I with it I think it's really cute.

[B]

I have a very pedestrian understanding of Audrey Hbert, but from what I know, she's written a bunch of songs for Gracie Abrams and for other artists. And this is from her first solo album. And I do think it captures the sort of angst and loneliness of dating when you realize that dating actually isn't like Sex and the City once you.

[A]

Come of age or that no one is reading your substack. In fact, you know, it's a lonely world.

[B]

It is a lonely world. But yeah, I think it's cute. And I think that, like, it will appeal to the sort of Taylor Swift. Swift Gracie Abrams person. But I think it is a little bit cooler than that and feels a little bit more sort of indie and. And what have you.

[C]

It's written from a Charlotte, but if she had Carrie's love life or thinks she has Carrie's dysfunctional love life, I support her.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Okay, next call.

[D]

Hi, guys. I'm just listening to this week's podcast and I'm so excited for the deep dive you're doing on Ray, Miranda and Steve's episode or relationship. But I just wanted to ask what you all thought. Like, why is it so, you know, sad and shameful for Steve when he has, you know, this, like, internal struggle with Miranda's success? And why is it so annoying when it's burger to carry? Like, it's sad and sweet for Steve and you kind of feel bad for him, but with burger, you're just like, get a grit. Well, I love you guys and I love the podcast and I just can't wait for the next episode. So thanks. Bye.

[B]

Okay, I think it's different because Steve was always presented as working class, but Berger to me presented as someone with money just solely based on his apartment, which was like very metrosexual and aspirational for like a Manhattan apartment. Right.

[C]

I imagine that this color is specifically talking about, about the idea of Miranda wanting to buy Steve a suit and him returning the suit in season two versus Carrie buying burger, the Prada shirt, and kind of the discord that it created in both of these relationships. And I think that the difference is that Steve wasn't trying to make Miranda feel bad about her success. He was just trying to explain to her that there are going to be differences, that there are things that I can't give you. And Berger just straight up resents Carrie for her success.

[B]

Yeah, he straight up hates her, like overtly hates his girlfriend for being successful.

[C]

But unlike Steve, who returned the suit, Berger did end up wearing the Prada shirt that Carrie bought him and I guess kept it post breakup.

[B]

Yeah, but he wore it to Smith Jared's play and then bailed because he was feeling insecure, like after the step and repeat situation or whatever.

[A]

I thought he was the biggest loser. My pussy got so dry looking at him and revisiting that episode. I think that, yeah, I agree with the both of you. It's a little bit more understanding and less coming from an insecure perspective. Because Steve is lovely, he's kind, he's very thoughtful. And when they first meet, because I listened to the episode yesterday, Fantastic. By the way, you explained it very explicitly that they start dating a very short period of time and he's like asking to move in and it's very elementary, optimistic love. And I could see why she was so of icked and like, it's giving like a 22 year old guy who's like blindly love Bombing, it's just a little bit intense, but it's not nefarious and it's not sinister. So there's these. A very fine line, I think. And I think with Carrie, Berger was her equal. They come from the same publishing world. He has a house in the Hamptons. Goddamn it. You know.

[B]

Oh, my God, I forgot about that.

[A]

You know, like, second option book. Like, probably was dating, like, an affluent, artistic woman, like, who. Who knows that. That apartment was gorgeous. In retrospect, not to put that down. She got, I think, at most 30k. You know what I mean? Like, and that's. That's a significant amount of money. I'm not putting that down. But after taxes, that's only 15 to 10. That's. You know what I mean? And then I'm like, okay, well, Jesus. Like, she has no family. Burger, have you ever met? Have she. Have you ever talked. She ever talked about her family? No. Does she ever talk about, you know, she's not living this extravagant life to the point of obnoxious. So I just thought that she wasn't even shining brightly. Just. He was such a little man. He's a writer, too. It was just, like. It made my skin crawl because I. It really did. I just. Oh, my God, this guy's the worst.

[C]

Well, also, Steve works. It's just that Miranda would like him to have a kind of more upmarket job. Burger is essentially unemployed. He gets his second book option or third book option dropped.

[A]

He's not doing any freelance for any publications. He's not, you know, doing a Q and A at gq.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. It's time to sell the Hamptons house Burger. Okay, next call.

[D]

My question today is this. Stanford ever hook up with Big Tool for you? We never see that. Unless I miss it. I need to know that ever happened. Okay, love you guys. Bye.

[B]

I can't answer this for you, dear caller, but if I ever run into Michael Patrick King in the wild, I will make sure to ask him for you.

[C]

Yeah, I always assumed that Big Tool for your never showed up. But it was enough for Stanford that he was at a bar in his tighty whities.

[B]

I got the sense that Big Tool for you actually ghosted based on how they ended that.

[A]

And I also assumed that he actually met someone even better, which was that lovely gentleman who bought him a big beer and thought he was attractive. Yeah, I thought that was nice. So, yes, he did get ghosted, but he met someone cooler.

[C]

And here's my head cannon. Big Tool for you was actually Anthony Marantino.

[A]

Love that. That's so closer coded, so. Oh, I love that.

[B]

Yeah, that's really good.

[C]

And perhaps quite like, you know, a gay version of you've Got Mail. Anthony walked into the bar, saw Stanford, realized that he had been chatting with Stanford, and left the bar. Or wait, is this before they meet?

[B]

Yeah, I don't know, but I'll take your word for it.

[A]

I think so. I think I know the timeline, and Charlotte has not been engaged yet. And I like the Stanford screen name. It was Rick9.

[B]

Rick9? Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I like when she's like, Rick9. I said, Stan, go off.

[C]

I was like, he's well in doubt.

[B]

Okay. He's well endowed, and he's a top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Incredible. Okay, this is another question that we got from a listener. What would you guys love to see Sarah Jessica Parker do next?

[A]

I thought about this earlier. I would love to see her in something so quirky. She has a natural rhythm and likeness that I've seen her display in different roles. Footloose. There's a scene in the cafeteria where she has this, like, indomitable spirit, and she's so jumpy and lively. I've seen that mirrored in Sex and the City. I've seen that mirrored in her friendship with Amy Sedaris. I've seen that in the scene in the Family Stone where she is at the bar drinking and having a good time. And she's like, do you know what'd be really fun? If we could get some pot. And I think when she leans into that fun, cool girl, she's so major. So I was like, I would love to her to be someone's, like, interesting kind of messy stoner aunt. I was like, that is such a departure from all of her roles. That's what I thought she'd be.

[B]

You're right. She should play a stoner. And there's not, like, that much representation of female stoners in movies. And when there is, they're never the main character. You know, what if it's like the Big Lebowski, but with Sarah Jessica Parker?

[A]

I think that would go off.

[B]

That would totally go off. That's a much better answer than what I'm gonna say. I was just like, I would like her to do a, like, prestige romantic comedy, like, really come back to the genre that sort of made her. I'd love to see her do, like, I mean, obviously, like a Nancy Meyers movie or a Nicole Holof singer.

[C]

Nicole Hollister.

[B]

Yes. Thank you, honey. One of those.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah. Like some. Some slightly highbrow shit. But still in the world of like, what we understand for Sarah Jessica Parker.

[C]

Well, I agree with both of you. I do fear that just her representation won't let her take an aunt role. Like, they will want her to her to be the lead of something, which I of course want to see. But yeah, I would love to see her get weird and just be in some indie film. Something unexpected, you know, like Amy Madigan and weapons. Like, what if she was just an unexpected villain in a horror film?

[A]

I wholeheartedly agree.

[B]

Or like Alicia Silverstone's character in Begonia or something like something really grotesque and freaky just out of nowhere, nowhere.

[C]

But I do think because Sarah Jessica Parker is very old school, I think she's gonna go back to theater. I think she is witnessing the demise of the Hollywood industry that she no longer recognizes. And I don't think she wants to participate in streaming series or, you know, movies that are relegated to a digital release. So I think she wants to just go back to the things that she knows in theater and maybe the more Booker. Turner Prize. What is it?

[B]

The Turner Booker Prize. The Booker Prize is what you want her to write a novel like the Woman.

[C]

We're pretty sure that she spearheaded that plot line with Michael Patrick King. Like, yes, that is what she would like for herself.

[B]

While we have you, do you have any, like, hot takes about Sex and the City and just like that that you would like to share with our audience?

[A]

I think my greatest Sex in the City and just like that hot take has to do with you guys in the show, in the book. Yeah. No, no, no. I truly was convinced in the back of my mind. We have mutuals, but we don't talk. Right. Like, I would have never had any intel. I don't know you guys personally. I could have swore up and down, knock on wood, hand to God, that you guys were being individually plucked to spearhead. And just like that, I had made it was made up in my mind. I said, oh, my God, I'm gonna witness something really major. I'm gonna witness the women I admire, who admire the same special interests as I do, be recognized for having the arsenal, being at the head of the cutting edge of the conversation and being responsible for edging in a new voice and generation for it. And when I found out that that wasn't true, my whole world was fucking shattered. And I was like, oh. And I like, I think I'm like, I know, I'm so psychic. That was definitely my Sylvia Brown moment where I said wrong read. I think that my hottest take was that they missed out not hiring you guys. I think that was the biggest fucking blunder and mistake. And I'll say this, and I'll say it as why you guys are an amazing team. You guys are really great writers. I started with you guys because of the. The captions alone. So this writing is so fantastic and so refreshing. And these people are so efferv. There's something here. I know it. I smell it. It's not just the pop culture aspect, the acting aspect, the fashion. It was like you guys covered all bases, and you guys have personal relationships with the show, with its actors, with its writers. So I said, wow, they're going to be ushered in and there's going to be something really special. It's going to be so great. And then I'm like, oh, they're not writing on it. And no, the show is awful. So I just think that was my hottest take. I think they should have hired you guys. I think you guys would have invigorated the franchise. I think you guys would have continued on the legacy that we know Sex and the City to be and that we sadly have been, you know, just a little dissociated with because of the post traumatic stress disorder and the trauma bonding of the new show. And I think that I wanted you guys to be my Jenny bics and my MPKs. And I just. I still think that. I still think there could have been a chance in a parallel universe where this would have been marvelous. So edgy, so good. And not edgy in the way they try to do it. I don't think we need to use the word edgy. I think it would have just stayed on the track because in truth of the matter, the women were very young when the show ended. I think 40 is very young. I think 50 is very young. I think 60 is young. And I thought there was a real missed opportunity to show the chicness of my modern women and how awesome and beautiful and vivacious and much cooler than they are than any 20 or 30, something that has to offer. And I really thought that there was gonna be this bridged gap between where they kind of didn't touch upon on the movies. And I was like, oh, yeah, there's gonna be some really interesting writing and connection. And yeah, that was. That was my biggest take. I think you guys would have made it beautiful.

[B]

Well, that was the pep talk I needed today. I don't know about you, Lauren.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

I'm speechless. And I'm honored coming from you. I'm completely Honored.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Thank you. I mean, I think that if we were a part of the writing room, I don't think that would have been very fun for us, but at the very least, we would have reminded them that actually LTW's father died in the first season. We would have, at the very least, avoided that continuity error.

[A]

Those people can't match with you. I. I needed y' all in your own right. And shame. I was like, oh, no. They need to be given full reign. Full reign. And, Lauren, I shared a lot of your every check in the exasperation. It was like an abusive relationship. I said, I feel her gripe. I know what she's talking about. And it took me a little bit to feel the gripe, too. I think that I was like, it's gonna get better. It's gonna get better.

[C]

I felt that way in the second season. Like, I did that to myself with every season where I was like, oh, okay, now they've learned. A friend of ours was talking about a different, equally divisive, derided, but also love streaming show, and she was like, you have to understand, the writers think it's brilliant.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And so I just. I don't know if there was anything we could have done. By the way, we should say never in the conversation. Never even had a meeting. We know the daddy MPK never knows who we are, which, you know, now I'm a little scared about.

[B]

But, yeah, if we run into him in Erewhon or something, I'm, like, hiding. I'm hiding the way that Miranda is hiding from Steve, like, out of full guilt and shame.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for coming on, talking about your wonderful album, giving us your takes on Sex and the City. You're clearly such a scholar of Sex and the City. And that is our favorite kind of guest on this show. So thank you for being here today.

[A]

Thank you for having me. It's been so wonderful.

[C]

And thank you, everybody, for listening. We will be back next week. Bye.

[B]

Bye. Extra value meals are back.

[C]

That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and.

[B]

Medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for limited time only.

[C]

Prices and participation may vary.

[B]

Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California.

[C]

And for delivery.