What if the Best Retirement is No Retirement at All?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everybody’s Business
Episode: “What if the Best Retirement is No Retirement at All?”
Date: July 8, 2026
Host: Stacey Vanek Smith (guest-hosting Bloomberg’s The Big Take)
Guests: David Lloyd (Boom Radio), Holland Azeri (World Economic Forum)

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the emerging trend of “unretirement”—older adults delaying retirement or re-entering the workforce by choice or necessity. Through the story of Boom Radio, a UK radio station founded and run by “unretired” radio professionals, and with insights from longevity experts, the episode explores the social, financial, and structural shifts redefining what it means to retire in the 21st century.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking Retirement: The Rise of “Unretirement”

• Changing Realities: Many older adults are either continuing to work past traditional retirement ages or returning to the workforce.
  • “We were doing bits of consulting and writing and we were on that sort of drift towards, you know, from being busy every day to doing nothing.” – David Lloyd (01:37)
• Motivations to Keep Working: Financial necessity and the desire for purpose or community top the list.

2. The Boom Radio Story: Reinvention & Fulfillment

• Creating Opportunity: After noticing radio was trending younger, David Lloyd launched Boom Radio to fill the gap for older professionals and listeners.
  • “This is the radio station we’ve actually spent our whole lives getting ready to run.” – David Lloyd (02:48)
• Challenges & Success: Built from scratch, financed partly by pensions, and run from presenters’ homes, the station quickly grew, securing national transmission and a million+ listeners.
• Deep Impact: Boom Radio became more than a job for both audience and presenters, offering entertainment, company, and purpose.
  • “We get emails…that make us cry every day. You have changed my life…Now I put you on and I feel there’s some company there.” – David Lloyd (14:13)
  • “It’s been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing I’ve ever done in my whole life.” – David Lloyd (18:50)

3. The Legacy of Retirement: Past vs. Present

• Origins of Retirement Age: The “mid-60s retirement” was set when life expectancy was much lower.
  • "When the US established its Social Security system in the 1930s, the average lifespan was about 60." – Stacey Vanek Smith (04:28)
• Today’s Landscape: Americans now live to nearly 80, but retirement systems haven’t adapted.
  • “People are living so much longer that they could work longer. Now, we’re not saying people should work longer, but…some people need to work longer…some people want to work longer.” – Holland Azeri (04:48)

4. Why Older Adults Work Longer

• Financial Gaps: Insufficient savings and concern about the future of Social Security.
  • "63% of adults worry they’ll need to unretire to make ends meet.” – Stacey Vanek Smith (05:44)
• Psychological & Social Factors: Work provides connection, routine, and identity.
  • “That sense of community and purpose…that they want to feel like they’re giving back, that they’re part of a community for whatever reason. Work is that community.” – Holland Azeri (06:24)

5. Barriers and Stereotypes: Ageism in the Workplace

• Prejudice Against Older Workers: Many hiring managers cite concerns over health, tech-savviness, and speed.
  • “It took job seekers who were over 65 about 10 weeks longer to find a job compared with people in their early twenties.” – Stacey Vanek Smith (07:32)
  • “Society has said, yes, we’ve had enough of you now. Can you go away and just sit quietly?” – David Lloyd (08:17)
• Rebutting Biases: Older workers bring stability, crisis management, and diverse perspectives.
  • “The most creative teams were the ones that were multi-generational.” – Holland Azeri (07:09)
  • “We’re probably at the peak of our powers. We’re still very agile, able, we can do anything. We’ve learned all the things that can possibly go wrong.” – David Lloyd (09:00)

6. Corporate and Policy Innovations

• Private Sector Initiatives: Examples include CVS Health (hiring over-50s in pharmacies), and corporate “returnships” at Amazon and Goldman Sachs, plus phased retirement and mentorship roles.
  • “Phased retirement programs work because you can keep some of that knowledge still and help everyone else benefit from it.” – Holland Azeri (15:17)
• Global Approaches:
  • Singapore’s ‘Skills Future’: At age 40, citizens receive funding to upskill or retrain.
    • “They have this program called Skills Future, where at midlife—40—you get money to once again reskill or upskill.” – Holland Azeri (16:30)
  • Diversity of Experience: Differences in pension systems, mandatory retirement ages, and healthcare globally play key roles.

7. Cognitive & Physical Health

• Cognitive Aging Trends: Older adults today may be cognitively sharper than their counterparts decades ago.
  • “The IMF released a report…somebody that was aged 70 in 2022 has the same cognitive function as the average 53 year old in 2000.” – Holland Azeri (17:24)
• Longevity Demands New Models: Calls for innovation in how society structures a “100-year life.”

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Why on earth would I want to sit around and do nothing?” – David Lloyd (01:13)
• “Let’s reclaim [boomer].” – David Lloyd (02:21)
• “People really suffer a bit when they lose that institutional knowledge.” – Holland Azeri (15:17)
• “A more diverse workforce…is a more interesting and creative workforce.” – Holland Azeri (15:32)
• “Seventy is the new fifty.” – Holland Azeri (17:52)
• “Just because we’ve been doing something the same way for the last hundred years doesn’t mean we should continue doing it that way.” – Holland Azeri (18:06)
• “If I die tomorrow, I’ve done it, you know.” – David Lloyd (18:54)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:13 – David Lloyd introduces the rationale for not retiring
• 02:03 – Idea for Boom Radio conceived; generational media gap
• 04:13–04:48 – Holland Azeri: Retirement systems & increased longevity
• 05:23–05:44 – Unretirement: financial and purpose-driven motives
• 07:09–08:17 – Ageism and hiring barriers for older workers
• 09:00 – David Lloyd on the “peak of our powers”
• 12:26 – The founding of Boom Radio: grassroots to national success
• 14:13–14:43 – Listener and presenter impact at Boom Radio
• 15:17–15:32 – Institutional knowledge, phased retirement and diversity
• 16:30–17:08 – Singapore's upskilling initiatives
• 17:24–17:52 – New data on aging and cognitive health
• 18:06 – Call for reimagining retirement for longer lives
• 18:54 – David Lloyd on fulfillment and legacy

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Conclusion

This episode challenges the outdated notion of retirement as an abrupt, one-size-fits-all milestone at 65. Instead, it highlights a world where longer lives and changing workplace norms create both struggles (financial, social, and systemic) and opportunities for reinvention and fulfillment. Through the spirited example of Boom Radio and policy case studies, listeners are encouraged to view later-life work not as an anomaly, but as a chance for purpose and impact—with society and employers needing to adapt to this “100-year life.”

Transcript

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[Podcast Host]

IBM Max Chavkin here from Everybody's Business. Today we are sharing another episode from one of our favorite Bloomberg podcasts, the Big Take. This week, Stacey Vanek Smith looks into a rising group of people who are or delaying their retirement or reentering the workforce by choice. We'll be back with a new episode of Everybody's Business this Friday.

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Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News

[David Lloyd]

I'm fitter. I'm better at my job than I was when I was 30. Why on earth should I, why would I want to sit around and do nothing?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David Lloyd spent his career working in commercial radio, first as a presenter and eventually running stations in places like Manchester, London and Birmingham. But by the time he was approaching 60, he found himself and his peers in what he calls semi retirement.

[David Lloyd]

We were doing bits of consulting and writing and we were on that sort of drift towards, you know, from being busy every day to doing nothing.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David wasn't ready to retire, but work was starting to dry up. He was also noticing a shift as a radio listener. More and more of his favorite presenters were getting replaced by younger talent and the were playing music that wasn't really tailored to him and people from his generation. So during the pandemic, he had an

[David Lloyd]

idea for a radio station for people our age. We help you fall in love with

[Holland Azeri]

radio all over again.

[IBM Representative]

Boom Radio.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That's right, Boom radio after baby boomers.

[David Lloyd]

Because we know that boomer has become a bit of an insult, let's reclaim it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It wasn't just for people David's age. It was made by them, too. The station employs people who have decades of experience under their belts and desire to keep working, but who might have limited opportunities. David and his radio peers are part of a growing segment of the global population that wants to continue working later in life or who are Returning to the workforce after years away from it.

[David Lloyd]

This is the radio station we've actually spent our whole lives getting ready to run. It really is. So I'm having an absolute ball.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I'm Stacey Vanek Smith in for Sarah Holder and David Gura. And this is the big take from Bloomberg News today on the show. Why are so many workers delaying retirement or re entering the workforce? What challenges does that pose for them and for the labor market? And what one group of radio lovers did to take matters into their own hands in the US entering your 60s marks the start of a new chapter, senior citizenship. You become eligible for things like Medicare and reduced transit fares. You can start claiming Social Security funds and the expectation is you're going to retire soon, if you haven't already. It's an idea that dates back centuries to late 1800s Germany.

[Holland Azeri]

I think it was Otto von Bismarck who created the Social Security program back in Germany when almost no one would

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

draw down on it. Right.

[Holland Azeri]

That's right. That's part of what we're trying to have a conversation about is that system no longer really functions the way it should today because that was a system created when people weren't living as long. And the jobs were quite different back then. They were more physical and agrarian and manufacturing kind of jobs. So it was, it was a different work style.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Holland Azeri is the head of the Longevity Economy initiative at the World Economic Forum.

[Holland Azeri]

People are living longer lives than ever before. However, our retirement systems, our pension systems didn't really change to catch up with that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We still have that mid-60s retirement standard, even though when it was established back in 1800s Germany, the average German only lived until about 40. And when the US established its Social Security system in the 1930s, the average lifespan was about 60. Today, American life expectancy is nearly 80.

[Holland Azeri]

People are living so much longer that they could work longer. Now, we're not saying people should work longer, but what we have found is some people need to work longer because they just didn't save enough. And between their savings and Social Security, it's not enough to live off of. Some people want to work longer because that is where they find their purpose and their community. And they're not quite ready to let that go. And when you're talking about retirement going from five years to 25 years, that's a long time to try to find something to keep yourself busy and happy.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And that has led to the rise of so called unretirement, basically returning to the workforce after you retire.

[Holland Azeri]

So there are two main reasons why people unretire. One is definitely financial. They retire and they realize they don't have enough money saved up to live the kind of life that they want to live.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

According to U.S. bank's 2025 Wealth Report, which surveyed 5,000American adults, three quarters of Gen Z and millennials expect to spend more than 15 years retired, and 63% of adults worry they'll need to unretire to make ends meet. Pension programs are largely a thing of the past, and the trustees who manage the Social Security program announced that they're expecting the fund to run out of money in 2032. After that point, the program would still take in payroll taxes, but those revenues would only cover about 78% of scheduled benefits. Unless, of course, Congress acts. American retirees just do not have the security they once had.

[Holland Azeri]

But the other reason people unretire is that sense of community and purpose that they want to be back in with a group, that they want to feel like they're giving back, that they're part of a community for whatever reason. Work is that community. For a lot of us here in the United States, that didn't used to be the case back in the 50s and 60s, but today it is. That's where we get our friends, our community, and so people are looking for that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

According to a survey from the aarp, the percentage of retirees who unretire or decide to go back to work is still pretty low. It hovered around 7% this winter, but that is up a full percent from just a few months prior. Even if that number is slowly on the rise, it's not so easy to reenter the workforce as an older person.

[Holland Azeri]

I think the biggest challenge, to be honest, Stacey, is ageism and people thinking that they don't understand the technology. They won't want to learn new things. There's this still misguided notion that younger employees and older employees don't get along, that there's this generational rift. We did a report actually with the OECD and AARP several years ago that showed that the most creative teams were the ones that were multi generational.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The job seeker site Resume Builder surveyed 1,000 hiring managers, and a third of them said they had concerns about hiring seniors. When asked why 64% of them cited potential health issues, nearly half pointed to seniors lack of experience with technology, and around 40% said seniors work too slowly. That bias shows. In 2024, Bureau of Labor Statistics data showed that it took job seekers who were over 65 about 10 weeks longer to find a job compared with people in their early twenties. In the uk where David Lloyd from Boom Radio lives, It took about 20% of unemployed 18 to 24 year olds over a year to find a job, compared to 30% of over 50 year olds.

[David Lloyd]

Society has said, yes, we've had enough of you now. You know, can you go away and just sit quietly?

[Holland Azeri]

I think people think that the best employees are within a certain age frame, but there's all sorts of different ages that an employee could benefit a company.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I feel like there's a lot of emphasis right now on AI and people who are tech savvy and can come in and are comfortable with technology and all of these things. Like, what are some of the advantages that an older worker might bring?

[Holland Azeri]

I think one of them is probably stability, being a little more unflappable. I think they can manage crises a bit more seamlessly.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And that unflappability, that battle tested experience, it's something David says he's proud of when he looks at his generation.

[David Lloyd]

We felt we're probably at the peak of our powers. I mean, you know, we're still very agile, able, we can do anything. We've learned all the things that can possibly go wrong. And just as you're at that stage of life, nobody wants to employ you. Another anniversary oldie. Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder Ebony and Ivory produced by George Martin after the break,

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

how David's dream of a radio station run by unretired workers panned out. And what creative solutions other countries and companies have developed to address this.

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[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The idea for Boom Radio came to David Lloyd on an evening walk in 2020 at the height of the COVID pandemic. He was going to start his own radio station, employ other retired or semi retired presenters and appeal to other boomer listeners.

[David Lloyd]

We also thought that if we can do it from our own homes, the overheads of running the radio station can be pretty low and therefore we can create hopefully a business which can sustain itself.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David emailed an old colleague of his, Phil Riley, and laid out his vision for the station.

[David Lloyd]

He sent as he would a spreadsheet back saying I've done the figures because that's the person he is and you need other people. He said, I've done the figures, I think this could work. Let's call it Boom Radio.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

David convinced some private investors to back him, drew money out of his pension and then started calling up potential on air talent.

[David Lloyd]

And I said look, come with us, we'll pay you but not very much at the outset. Come with us on the journey and if it goes well. And they all said yes.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And just like that, Boom Radio was

[David Lloyd]

born and it's Friday morning here on Boom Radio. Mind you, when you get to a certain age, Fridays aren't that much different to Mondays. We're an upbeat radio station. People turn us on to be cheered up. That's why they come to us. But don't be afraid to let out those little things that people our age talk about so they will talk about about their hearing aid falling out. But just like people our age in real life, that you can talk about those things without those things defining you.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The response was immediate. Boom Radio went from a digital broadcast to securing a national transmission. Within weeks of hitting the airwaves, they brought in advertisers who wanted to capture their demographic. Cruises, insurance, an easy to use smartphone.

[David Lloyd]

It's a lot of very fitting product.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Today, five years in, the station has more than a million monthly listeners.

[David Lloyd]

I've never felt anything like it. I mean, we get emails, letters as well that make us cry every day. You know, when they say, you have changed my life, you know, things like, my husband has died, there was just an empty house. Now I put you on and I feel there's some company there.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And there's the impact on the station's three dozen presenters, including David.

[David Lloyd]

It's a beautiful cyclical thing. I mean, my back bedroom again messing about with radio just as when I was 16 and it's beautiful.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Boom Radio is a more grassroots example of a company putting its emphasis on older workers. But there are some companies that have their own initiatives to attract and retain older employees. CVS Health has a program that recruits workers over 50 for tough to fill pharmacy positions. Amazon and Goldman Sachs both have returnship programs which recruit and train people who've been out of the workforce for a significant stretch. Other companies offer phased retirement programs that allow older workers to keep their jobs but work fewer days a week or take on more of a mentorship role.

[Holland Azeri]

I think people really suffer a bit when they lose that institutional knowledge. So I think that's part of the reason why phased retirement programs work, because you can keep some of that knowledge still and help everyone else benefit from it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Holan is Zeri at the World Economic Forum.

[Holland Azeri]

I think the other benefit is I think a more diverse workforce, whether that's ages or gender or anything else, is a more interesting and creative workforce. And so I really think it's benefits everyone if you have a diversity of voices.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I mean, you've, you've looked at issues of longevity and work all over the world. Do we see any differences between the US and people looking at these issues in the rest of the world.

[Holland Azeri]

So many advanced countries in the rest of the world have longer lifespans than we do. That's one thing I'll say.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, interesting.

[Holland Azeri]

Some have more sustainable pension systems than we do, which also changes things a bit. Some have mandatory retirement ages, free health care. Free health care is a huge part of it. So it's hard to look at longevity with one lens globally because every country has kind of a different advantage or disadvantage. I can tell you about the countries that I think are doing it right, and one of those is Singapore.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, okay. What's Singapore doing?

[Holland Azeri]

They definitely have an aging population. And what they're specifically looking at is helping their population upskill and reskill in a way that nobody else is doing. So. So they have this program called Skills Future, where at midlife, which they say is 40, which I think might be older going forward, but at 40 you get money to once again reskill or upskill. So if that's the point that you're thinking, maybe this isn't what I want to do, then the government gives you this money to try to get a new skill or focus on a new thing.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So you could pivot or you can pivot. Be like, you know, for my current job, it'd be really useful if I knew Python.

[Holland Azeri]

Exactly.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay.

[Holland Azeri]

Exactly. So the government works with the citizens to create these opportunities for them to have that at their disposal.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And Tallah says there's data that pushes against the idea that an older workforce isn't as capable as a younger 1.

[Holland Azeri]

The IMF released a report last year that said that somebody that was aged 70 in 2022 has the same cognitive function as the average 53 year old in 2000. We are healthier, we're taking better care of our bodies, we're focusing on brain health. And I think that's paying off in how our entire body ages, including our cognitive and brain abilities.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So people are really more able to work much later into life than they would have been otherwise.

[Holland Azeri]

Exactly. They say 70 is the new 50.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

What it comes down to is this retirement is not a one size fits all model anymore. And it's certainly not the natural next step the day you turn 65.

[Holland Azeri]

Just because we've been doing something the same way for the last hundred years doesn't mean we should continue doing it that way. I think it's time to maybe innovate and come up with new ideas and solutions of how we want to live what we call a 100 year life and what that could look like.

[David Lloyd]

Friday, we're going to be seeing a doctor. And on Saturday we'll get our eyes tested. We know what life's like when you get to our age, but that doesn't define you, what defines you, who you are and the fun you can have. Billy Joel it's still rock and roll to me. Good morning, I'm David Lloyd. This is Boom Radio uk. Thank you for joining us this morning. It is seven days a week. It is exhausting. There are times when I could scream, but the levels of fulfillment are just huge. It's been the most fulfilling, beautiful thing I've ever done in my whole life. It means that, you know, if I die tomorrow, I've done it, you know.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Stacey Vanek Smith in for Sarah Holder and David Gura. To get more from the Big Take and unlimited access to all of bloomberg.com, subscribe [e-mail] podcastoffer if you like this episode, make sure to follow and review the Big Take Wherever you listen to your podcast podcasts, it helps people find the show. Thank you for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

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