Podcast Summary: "Examining Epstein, Inc"

Everybody's Business
Host: Max Chafkin & Stacey Vanek Smith
Date: November 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into two major business storylines through the lens of Bloomberg’s top reporters:

• The confusing reality of Thanksgiving food prices in the face of inflation (with guest Dina Shanker)
• An in-depth look at the newly emerged Jeffrey Epstein documents and what they reveal about the intersection of money, power, and elite networks in business (with guest Max Abelson)

The episode’s tone balances wit and seriousness—typical of "Everybody's Business"—with moments of skepticism, humor, and frank reflection.

Main Discussion Segments & Timestamps

1. Thanksgiving Food Prices and Inflation

[03:38–21:11]

Key Points

• Holiday grocery prices are a hot topic amid ongoing inflation.
• The hosts debate conflicting reports about whether Thanksgiving dinner ingredients are actually more affordable in 2025.
• Guest: Dina Shanker, Businessweek food reporter, provides data context and skepticism about industry-driven statistics.

Insights & Quotes

• Inflation is top of mind for listeners and consumers:

  “This is a hard time where the food stamps are cut, but there’s always food.” — Listener in man-on-the-street, [06:53]

• Farm Bureau’s “Thanksgiving dinner index” claims dinner for 10 people costs $55 this year, down from previous years. But there’s debate:

  “Can I just say, I don’t trust any of these numbers. The Farm Bureau, it sounds like a very official, like group, but it’s. It’s a lobbying group.” — Max Chafkin, [13:01]

• Methodological differences and supermarket loss-leaders make it hard to tell if prices are actually lower for everyone:

  “Thanksgiving is a terrible gauge for the food prices because they’re all over the place.” — Dina Shanker, [15:56]

• Despite numerical data, people’s perceptions of high prices persist:

  “The truth is, is that prices have gone up so much since pre pandemic. That’s what people remember. People remember prices that are never coming back.” — Dina Shanker, [18:51]

Notable Moments

• The hosts poke fun about veggie trays being the most inflated item:

  “Who buys a veggie tray?” — Max Chafkin, [17:11] “Please don’t invite me to that meal.” — Dina Shanker, [17:13]

• Data cited includes CPI readings, Farm Bureau’s report, Deloitte’s analysis, and Bloomberg’s own Thanksgiving Index.
• Dina Shanker explains retailers use turkey as a "loss leader" to attract grocery shoppers.

2. The Epstein Files: Unraveling the Business of Power

[23:53–39:58]

Key Points

• Recent congressional action and investigative reporting have unleashed a trove of Jeffrey Epstein’s emails and documents, exposing connections to powerful figures.
• Max Abelson, Bloomberg reporter, breaks down the "Epstein Files", their provenance, and what they mean for business and elite networks.

Insights & Quotes

What Are the “Epstein Files”?

• The files consist of batches spanning years, including exclusive content obtained by Bloomberg and recent Congressional releases:

  “Bloomberg News obtained more than 18,000 emails sent to and from Epstein... to basically like a private Yahoo email address.” — Max Abelson, [25:24] “Congressional committees... released, I think basically last week, thousands more.” — Max Abelson, [27:22]

What Was "Epstein, Inc."?

• Abelson emphasizes the mystery deepens as more is learned:

  “The more we find out about Epstein, the more enigmatic he becomes...” — Max Abelson, [29:09] “He seems to have made career out of connections with the most important people in the world.” — Max Abelson, [29:22]

• Epstein's operations spanned:

  • Money management for ultra-wealthy (e.g., Wexner, Victoria’s Secret)
  • Cultivating “TED talk world” connections with elite academics and leaders (e.g., Larry Summers)
  • Large-scale criminal activity, including sex trafficking.

  “He was running money. He was managing the money of rich people... Then... his sort of, like, fancy globetrotter connections... And then, of course... [sex crimes].” — Max Abelson, [31:28]

The Power and Pitfalls of Elite Association

• The reputations of business and political titans are at stake:

  “I think we’re gonna see more names connected to business who are involved in this guy.” — Max Chafkin, [34:09]

• Reading candid emails between elites and Epstein is “grim”:

  “I have been surprised. I find it very grim and very depressing. And why that is is it has a level of meanness and even cruelty that I’m just not used to.” — Max Abelson, [39:04]

Notable Moments

• On Larry Summers:

  “To read the words of two men, you know, speaking about women in the way that characters in movies do. Yeah, it’s very. It’s very.” — Max Abelson, [35:35]
  “All the people we’ve mentioned as being associated with Jeffrey Epstein have in one way or another said they regret their associations... including Larry Summers.” — Max Chafkin, [37:09]

• On What’s Next:

  “I am looking forward to seeing who was doing business with Epstein that we don’t know about, the ways they were doing business that we don’t totally understand yet and what the ramifications will be.” — Max Abelson, [37:27]

3. Underrated Stories of the Week

[41:11–45:52]

Key Points

• K-shaped Economy: Discussion of growing economic inequality; Trump’s proposed stimulus checks and the reality behind “tariff” windfalls.

  “It’s, I think this is a way of, of handling and maybe acknowledging the K shaped economy.” — Stacey Vanek Smith, [43:24]

• Trump-Musk Alliance ("MAMUT" Trade):

  • The hosts introduce the idea that “Musk Always Makes Up with Trump”—a volatile, influential alliance that may shape the 2026 political and business landscape.

  “Musk always makes up with Trump. And I have to tell you, Stacey, it is happening... It looks like the relationship is back on.” — Max Chafkin, [45:03]

Additional Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Thanksgiving is a terrible gauge for the food prices because they’re all over the place.” — Dina Shanker, [15:55]
• “People remember prices that are never coming back.” — Dina Shanker, [18:51]
• “He seems to have made career out of connections with the most important people in the world.” — Max Abelson, [29:22]
• “Hearing you talk just puts me in mind of a kind of... bifurcation. There are people who were in Epstein’s orbit and have now gotten in trouble... but then there are the people who were Epstein’s clients...” — Max Abelson, [37:27]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamps | |---------|------------------------------------------------|---------------| | 1 | Thanksgiving Food Prices & Inflation | 03:38–21:11 | | 2 | Epstein Files & The Business of Power | 23:53–39:58 | | 3 | K-shaped Economy & Trump/Musk Alliance | 41:11–45:52 |

Summary Tone & Takeaway

The episode mixes sharp data analysis and skepticism with relatable humor (Thanksgiving as the "loss leader" holiday meal; veggie tray ridicule). The discussion of Epstein’s business legacy is treated thoughtfully yet directly, focusing on the shadowy mechanics of money, power, and reputation.

Listeners get a nuanced understanding of:

• Why food costs aren't as straightforward as headlines suggest
• The complexities (and dangers) of high-level business and academic networks when touched by scandal
• The ongoing, unpredictable entanglement of business titans, politicians, and the shifting American economy

For further inquiry:

• Listen to Bloomberg’s “Disclosure” podcast for deeper dives into the Epstein financial investigation, as recommended in the episode ([39:38]).
• Monitor upcoming DOJ and Congressional document releases for further revelations on Epstein’s business involvements.
• Watch the developing Trump-Musk relationship as a bellwether for business-politics convergence in the post-2024 landscape.