How to Profit off a Presidency

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Everybody's Business

Episode: "How to Profit off a Presidency"

Date: July 17, 2026
Hosts: Max Chafkin & Stacey Vanek Smith
Guests: Tim O’Brien (Executive Editor, Bloomberg Opinion), Dina Shanker (Food Writer, Bloomberg Businessweek), Randall Williams (Bloomberg Sports Reporter)

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Overview

This episode of Everybody’s Business tackles two major themes: profit and power in the U.S. presidency—specifically through the lens of Donald Trump's business dealings—and the business mechanics behind the 2026 FIFA World Cup. The hosts also solve an investigative mystery on the disappearance of store-brand Triscuits. The tone is sharp, deeply informed, and playfully skeptical, offering listeners an engaging mix of high-level insight and relatable detail.

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1. Presidential Profiteering: The Trump Economy

Main Discussion & Insights

• The hosts frame the episode within the context of economic “grift”—unfairness and profiteering baked into many aspects of American business and government.
• Tim O’Brien—longtime Trump observer, author, and former litigant—offers in-depth perspective on Trump's ability to monetize the presidency at levels unmatched in his decades-long business career.

Key Points:

• Trump’s unprecedented presidential profit:
  “In no single year in that entire 60 year span did [Trump] earn as much money as he did during essentially the first year and a half of his second term as president. And why is that? ... It’s because he’s president.”
  (Tim O’Brien, 07:47)

• Presidential corruption vs. ordinary grift:
  O’Brien argues this isn’t just marginal corruption but a systemic danger:
  “Presidents prior to Trump have been very careful not to pierce that veil ... you certainly shouldn’t be turning the White House into a Walmart and taking your winnings to the bank on a weekly basis, especially to the tune of billions of dollars, all of which Donald Trump has done.”
  (Tim O’Brien, 08:23)

• Real-world consequences (example: crypto and international business):
  O’Brien describes a case where a $500 million investment from a UAE official to Trump’s crypto company allegedly coincided with favorable regulatory moves:
  “The calculus in this particular example is that the President sold out the well-being of average Americans and national security so the family could get $500 million.”
  (Tim O’Brien, 14:08)

Notable Quote

• On the threat to American democracy:
  “The United States is an experiment … And once that is undermined or sabotaged by people at the top bending it all towards their own financial gain, then you lose trust and the experiment is in danger.”
  (Tim O’Brien, 14:33)

Timestamps

• 04:14 – Why the economy feels rigged: predatory loans, profiteering, and consumer distrust.
• 07:47–12:25 – O’Brien details Trump’s decades-long approach to brand-building and how it was supercharged by the presidency.
• 14:08 – The crypto/UAE anecdote.
• 14:33 – Broader impact on democracy.

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2. Grifting in Everyday Life: The Consumer View

Main Discussion & Insights

• Jasmine JT Green collects street-level stories of “economic grift”—from health insurance struggles and expensive rent to overpriced baby products and cookout trays. The hosts note a broader sense of unfairness permeating average Americans’ daily lives.

Notable Moments

• “I feel like I’m getting scammed in the entire marketplace of things you’re marketed to when you are pregnant ... they really want you to spend like thousands and thousands of dollars on items you will use for like two years. And I refuse.”
  (Dina Shanker, 05:27)
• “How come no one mentioned crypto?” – Max Chafkin jokes about a very 2020s grift. (06:03)

Timestamps

• 05:00-06:07 – Real consumers vent about scams and the rising cost of living.

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3. World Cup 2026: Big Business & the VAR Controversy

Main Discussion & Insights

• The hosts pivot to the 2026 FIFA World Cup, zooming in on U.S. hosting, TV ratings, the impact of technology (VAR), and the sport’s expansion as a money machine.
• Randall Williams breaks down how business questions about fan turnout, ticket prices, and controversies have all resolved in FIFA’s favor:
  • Ratings are “huge” (40M+ for USA games).
  • The tournament is proving to be a “money generator for billionaires ... and FIFA is not going to stop” expanding for profit. (Randall Williams, 29:48)

VAR & Trump’s Intervention

• The U.S./Belgium game saw a controversial red card for U.S. player Flo Balogun—a call that Trump, as president, openly challenged by contacting FIFA, which resulted in an unprecedented rule change to allow Balogun back on the field.
  • “This referee, who is a little bit suspect …” (Tim O’Brien as Trump, 24:57)
  • “Trump was like, oh, you know, if we lose, it’s corrupt, and it was rigged and all these different things. He was going full January 6th on the World Cup.”
    (Max Chafkin, 27:41)

Notable Quotes

• “I think controversy is a part of sports … the VAR is sort of right, but it feels like the implementation is off.”
  (Randall Williams, 26:31)

Timestamps

• 18:10 – World Cup business wins: TV, crowds, attendance, and the U.S./Mexico/Canada run.
• 22:14-27:44 – Red card, Trump intervention, FIFA’s mysterious “Article 27,” and audience reaction.
• 28:19-30:35 – FIFA’s future profit plans: commercial breaks (“water breaks”), 64-team expansion, and “who can host.”

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4. The Triscuit Mystery: Why Store-Brand Crackers Vanished

Main Discussion & Insights

• Dina Shanker returns at the end to report on why store-brand (private label) Triscuits disappeared from shelves.
• After stonewalling from Aldi and other major retailers, her trusted source revealed that only one company had been producing all the private-label Triscuits—and that company exited the business when it no longer made financial sense. There was no evidence of collusion or intellectual property pressure; it was just a case of an unprofitable product line.
  • “There was one manufacturer ... and they’re not doing it anymore ... it basically, like, essentially, like, this wasn’t a line of business that made sense for them.” (Dina Shanker, 34:07)

Notable Quotes

• “We went Deep Throat with Triscuits.” (Stacey Vanek Smith, 33:39)
• “There’s lots of crackers out there.” (Dina Shanker, 36:16)

Timestamps

• 32:41–36:31 – The Triscuit Investigation recap and resolution.

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5. Memorable & Fun Moments

• Tim O’Brien’s favorite Trump scheme:
  “Definitely crypto in the present because it’s so humongous and untoward and gross; in the past—Trump vodka.”
  (15:19)
• Meta-commentary on grift:
  “The White House … now has a Trump logo, including a tower.”
  (15:36, Stacey Vanek Smith)

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6. Notable Quotes & Speaker Attribution

• “The American experiment is in danger right now.”
  (Tim O'Brien, 14:33)
• “Trump was like, oh, you know, if we lose, it’s corrupt, and it was rigged … he was going full January 6th on the World Cup.”
  (Max Chafkin, 27:41)
• “There was one manufacturer of all of the private label Triscuits. One company was doing it, and they're not doing it anymore.”
  (Dina Shanker, 34:07)
• “There’s lots of crackers out there.”
  (Dina Shanker, 36:16)

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7. Key Segment Timestamps

• 04:14 – Consumer grift and the “rigged” economy
• 07:47–14:33 – Trump’s profiteering and its systemic risks
• 18:10–21:50 – World Cup business update
• 22:14–27:44 – VAR, Trump intervention, and controversy
• 32:41–36:31 – Triscuit private-label mystery explained

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8. Conclusion

This episode delivers a sharp, accessible critique of how money, power, and influence shape both the highest levels of government and our day-to-day economic lives. From presidential grift to the mechanics of global sports capitalism to why your favorite cracker disappeared, Max, Stacey, and a suite of star guests bring clarity, skepticism, humor, and actionable investigative journalism.

For further stories or questions, listeners are encouraged to email:

[e-mail]

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Transcript

[Max Chaffkin]

Modern enterprise.

[Tim O'Brien]

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[Max Chaffkin]

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[Dina Shanker]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts, Radio News

[Tim O'Brien]

hello.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Dena Shanker, food writer for Business Week. Thank you for taking our call at this last minute. Excited to be here because we have a mission should you choose to accept it.

[Dina Shanker]

Exciting.

[Max Chaffkin]

So, Dina, this question comes from Julio and Julio emailed us subject line the Triscuit Cracker Master mystery. And he's in Florida. He's a big fan of Triscuit crackers.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

They're good.

[Max Chaffkin]

The woven, you know, snack.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Woven Wheat.

[Max Chaffkin]

Woven wheat made by. I guess, I think it's Mandal or Nabis. I. I'm not Mondelez. And he and here, here is what Julio writes. We used to purchase store brand versions because they tasted just as good as the original and were frankly cheaper. But all of a sudden we cannot find store brand versions at Aldi Public's, Joe's or Walmart. They are still listed on the websites, but every one of them is now showing out of stock. He then includes links to all four of the leading off brand Triscuits asking what gives? Is this a classic case of collusion between the leading manufacturer and the retailers? Should the FTC investigate? Dina, Stacy and I like this question, but we have no idea how to answer it.

[Dina Shanker]

You ambushed me into an assignment

[Jasmine JT Green]

that

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

is exactly what we were thinking of it as. A spontaneous, collaborative journey.

[Dina Shanker]

I'll email my contact at Aldi. I'll be like, please help me look cool.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We're trying to. You have a contact at Aldi. We definitely contacted the right person for our collaborative, spontaneous journey.

[Max Chaffkin]

We'll, we'll check back in with you later in the show and find out. Get to the bottom of this big Triscuit a little closer to the bottom and then we'll send the referral to the Justice Department if need be.

[Dina Shanker]

We'll see what I can do.

[Max Chaffkin]

Thank you.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thanks, Dena. Okay, Max, we will get back to Dina at the end of the show. But before we do, we have some important ground to cover. There is your very favorite topic of late, the World cup big soccer match

[Max Chaffkin]

football, as the rest of the world calls it, but not me.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

But also presidential profits.

[Max Chaffkin]

Yeah, there's been a ton of news around this lately around President Trump and his family enriching themselves while they are in power. We have Bloomberg's Tim o', Brien, longtime, longtime Trump reporter and expert on this stuff, here to talk about that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I'm Stacey Vanek Smith.

[Max Chaffkin]

And I'm Max Chaffkin. And this is everybody's business from Bloomberg Business Week.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Stick around. So, Max, the U.S. economy is, I don't know, I think it's this amazing machine. I never get tired of thinking about it, writing about it, but there are moments when I have to admit it feels a little rigged. Things like payday loans or predatory loans or profiteering. There is a degree of unfairness that is always baked into the economy. And it does feel like we've been seeing more of that.

[Max Chaffkin]

And not to suggest that the great micro lending industry or the great capitalists are doing anything on tor, but this month's issue of Bloomberg Businessweek is all about grift, all about the different places in the economy that we're seeing, you know, sort of different flavors of unfairness, maybe.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Stacey? Yes. And you know, I think consumer sentiment has been at an all time low, and I think grift is part of why. And speaking of consumers, we sent our wonderful producer Jasmine JT Green out to talk to some real consumers about how they feel about the economy and where they see grift, where they feel like things are unfair. I feel like I'm getting scammed on my health insurance. I pay maybe $300 a month for my health insurance and I cannot find a therapist on this green earth who

[Tim O'Brien]

takes my health insurance.

[Max Chaffkin]

A year ago, a cookout tray in North Carolina was $7 and even that was too expensive. Now it is like $11 for a cookout tray. And I know that it cannot be that expensive. They're scamming on me.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I feel like I'm getting scammed in the entire marketplace of like, things that

[Dina Shanker]

you are marketed to when you are pregnant and when you have a baby coming.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

They really want you to spend like thousands and thousands of dollars on items that you will use for like two years. And I refuse.

[Tim O'Brien]

My biggest expense is rent.

[Max Chaffkin]

So I would say, I don't know, I feel like the majority of my

[Tim O'Brien]

of the money I make is getting going towards rent. That and taxes. I feel like, you know, you see

[Max Chaffkin]

how much you get in your paycheck

pre tax, and then you actually look

[Tim O'Brien]

at your bank account and you're like, where did it all go?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It feels like a scam.

[Max Chaffkin]

How come no one mentioned crypto? I don't understand.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Well, not everyone is as tuned in to the world of cryptocurrency as you are, Max. Luckily, I feel like crypto aficionados are always excited to explain crypto to people and why they should get into it. But here, here to discuss grift with us, we're very lucky. Is executive editor of Bloomberg Opinion, Tim o'.

[Max Chaffkin]

Brien.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Brian welcome, Tim, to everybody's Stacey. You have a great column in BusinessWeek about Trump and grift. But before we get to that, I would love to hear your thoughts on what you heard, what people are talking about, where they see grift in the economy.

[Tim O'Brien]

Well, you know, I always feel sympathetic when anyone talks about struggling in the richest country in the world. And I think, you know, one of the secrets to American stability and prosperity has always been a big middle class. And when you have middle class people saying, I can't afford to send my children to college, my electricity bill is skyrocketing, my food bill is skyrocketing, I can't pay for health care, I can't do cookouts, I can't buy a stroller, then something's wrong. And when you layer upon that people at the top of the food chain being in a position to further pad their wallets that are already very comfortably fat, I think it only adds to a very good question we should ask, which is, what is wrong about all of this?

[Max Chaffkin]

Tim, I want to get to the potential connection between what we heard and kind of what you wrote about. But just to lay it out, you wrote about Trump and the notion of grift, the suggestion, I guess, that he's somebody, you know, full of schemes. Can you just talk through how you see this aspect of the Trump presidency?

[Tim O'Brien]

Donald Trump is an 80 year old man who has been in business for the better part of 60 years. And in no single year in that entire 60 year span did he earn as much money as he did during essentially the first year and a half of his second term as president. And why is that? Is it because he's very hardworking? Is it because he's uniquely inventive and entrepreneurial? No, it's because he's president. And then what is it about the presidency that enables him to do this? Well, the president of the United States is A very powerful figure. They all have been very powerful figures. And they are the superintendent and the caretaker of the regulatory system, laws, and then just the basic ethical clothing that attaches itself to the most powerful office in the world. And presidents prior to Trump have been very careful not to pierce that veil because they respect the idea that because the president is so powerful, two things shouldn't happen. The president shouldn't arbitrarily abuse his or her powers. And then, secondly, you certainly shouldn't be turning the White House into a Walmart and taking your winnings to the bank on a weekly basis, especially to the tune of billions of dollars, all of which Donald Trump has done. And that's a bad thing. And I say that I don't think that's a partisan issue. This is completely about good government. It's about making sure that the stewards of our public wellbeing aren't stealing.

[Max Chaffkin]

You alluded to Trump's long career in business, the 60 years of sort of building up his image and making money. You are kind of like the expert in this topic. I don't think I'm exaggerating. You covered Trump at the New York Times for more than a decade, wrote a book, Trump Nation, the Making of the Trump Mythology and His and his Business Empire, and then became a player in that story. When Donald Trump took issue with your characterization of his net worth, you and sued you. And I'm kind of curious. I know you've written about this, but what has it been like experiencing the Trump presidency through that lens?

[Tim O'Brien]

My first exposure to Donald Trump was in 1990. I was the research assistant on Wayne Barrett's original Trump biography. And that's how I first got exposed to Trump. Wayne was like a legendary New York investigative reporter, and I worked with him for a couple years on that book. I then wrote a book about gambling in the mid-90s. I interviewed Trump for that. And then in the early 2000s, I was at the New York Times.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Times.

[Tim O'Brien]

I covered him at the Times, and then he cooperated with this book I. I wrote.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Why did he sue you?

[Tim O'Brien]

He said that I intentionally misrepresented how much money he was worth. At the time, he was saying he was worth $6 billion. My sources said he was worth, well, less than a billion.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, he sued you because you said

[Tim O'Brien]

he may not be as worth as much money as he says. And so he sued me for the difference between he sued me for $5 billion. I think it's the largest liable lawsuit in U.S. history.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Are you serious?

[Max Chaffkin]

I may be getting this Wrong. But the deposition produced some amazing qu, including one from Trump that was something like, my net worth fluctuates every day, sometimes based on how I feel, sometimes based on what's going on, sometimes based on what I feel.

[Tim O'Brien]

He also said the same thing about the profits from his business, his golf business. He said. He said my profits are basically mental projections, quote, unquote. We deposed in that litigation for two days. My lawyer was Mary Jo White, former U.S. attorney for the Southern District. I had the backing of the New York Times. They stripped the bark off of him like an old tree during that deposition. And it became kind of a Rosetta stone for. When Trump first ran in 2015, his suit with me got wrapped up. It got tossed out. After an appeal in 2011, I really never thought I would intersect with him again. And then in 2015, he rolls down the escalator. I did not think he'd become president. I was wildly wrong about that. You know, I think the first stage of us as a country getting used to Trump is thinking beyond Trump is a bad guy, or Trump does these things that are obscene or Trump violates, all of which is important to focus on. But the larger thing here is he's an outcome. And I think there's a lot of myths Americans tell themselves about what we've accomplished as a country. And Trump sort of stripped the band aid off this idea that we'd made enough progress around economic equity, civil rights, and on and on. And the challenge we are seeing now is can our institutions rise to the occasion and both monitor and check someone like this? And I think when we come to something like grifting and the way he's been able to monetize the president, the answer is absolutely not.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So there are a lot of things that presidents do that cause harm in various degrees. It's, I guess, comes with the job. What's so bad about this? I mean, he's making some extra money. Maybe there's a little corruption, profiteering. Like, why is this? Why is this so bad? I mean, it's not a war. Nobody's dying. Like, what's so bad about Grift?

[Tim O'Brien]

Stacey, you sound just like Todd Blanche or the Attorney General nominee. Or. I think that is the White House's response to this is there's no conflict of interest. Clearly, there is. And they say that time and again. I think it would be useful when we question this, and it's healthy that you are. And saying, is it really that bad? Is to talk about the impacts, not just the act. And so people could disagree about whether there's a conflict of interest. I happen to think it's very clear and troubling, but the impacts are really bad when it comes to crypto. For example, shortly after Donald Trump was inaugurated, the chief spymaster of the UAE invested $500 million in in the Trump family's crypto company. A short time after that, about two months later, the federal government lifted a ban on the export of very high end computer chips to the UAE that the Biden administration had put an export ban on for national security reasons because they can be used obviously in weapons of war. It is not good for the United States to have our most innovative and coveted products that also contribute to military efficiency go out on the open market. It makes America less safe. It makes Americans less safe. And the calculus in this particular example is that the President sold out the well being of average Americans and national security so the family could get $500 million.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

What are the implications for the US? How does this affect the country and the government, aside from Trump and his presidency?

[Tim O'Brien]

You know, the United States is an experiment. And it's an experiment in the idea that the rule of law and voting and free markets can affect a fairer, more productive and more equitable society. And part of that is that people here are acting in good faith and that people aren't stealing willy nilly, whether in the private sector or the public sector, and that you can create a vibrant, fair society from that. And once that is undermined or sabotaged by people at the top bending it all towards their own uses and towards their own financial gain, then you lose trust and the experiment is in danger. So I think the American experiment is in danger right now.

[Max Chaffkin]

Tim, really quick, all time favorite Trump

[Tim O'Brien]

scheme, definitely crypto in the present because it's so humongous and untoward and gross in the past. Trump vodka.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I didn't even know there was Trump vodka.

[Tim O'Brien]

There was also Trump ties, Trump underwear, Trump cologne. Trump cologne, a magazine. There's nothing on planet Earth that hasn't got the Trump name on it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It got a Trump logo, including a tower. And now the White House here.

[Max Chaffkin]

The White House.

Tim o', Brien, thank you so much.

[Tim O'Brien]

Thank you, Tim. Thanks, Max. Thanks, Stacey.

[Max Chaffkin]

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[Jasmine JT Green]

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[Max Chaffkin]

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he's dribbling the ball with everything on the line.

[Jasmine JT Green]

He's driving down the pitch.

[Max Chaffkin]

He's facing price hikes and cuts past him. Carrier contracts tries to block him.

[Jasmine JT Green]

Oh, he leaves him in the dust.

[Max Chaffkin]

He's at the edge of the box. He cuts past the non stop group chat trash talk.

[Tim O'Brien]

He clears on goal.

[Max Chaffkin]

He shoots unlimited data for $25 a month forever.

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[Tim O'Brien]

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[Max Chaffkin]

long as they remain active on the

[Tim O'Brien]

Boost $25 Unlimited plan.

[Max Chaffkin]

Stacey speaking of grift, speaking of allegations of corruption.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay, I'm excited to see where you're going the World cup.

[Max Chaffkin]

The World cup is going on.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

You think it's a grift?

[Max Chaffkin]

No. And to be to be honest, I hinted at this the last time we talked about this, but I am like fully World Cup.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I know, I know you talk about

[Max Chaffkin]

it a lot and I think there's a lot to we talked to Randall Williams, what was it, four weeks ago at the beginning of the World Cup? He is back. Randall Williams, Bloomberg Sports Reporter how you doing?

I'm doing all right. I'm excited.

So Randall, when we saw you last, the big question was, you know, there was a swirl of concern around the World Cup. You had very high ticket prices and maybe and and they seemed to be falling. There were questions about whether this larger format, whether they'd be able to fill the stadiums. We had all this, all this concern and, and the verdict is in now. And it is. We shouldn't have worried about anything. The World cup rocks. TV ratings are huge. Attendance is huge. Ticket prices are huge. It's going great from a business perspective, at least.

Yeah, my managing editor had that prediction. Giles Turner was saying that the World cup will be just fine. And as you said, all of the biggest concerns came from on the field, which generally is what how sports you would, you would ask for, like all of the controversies, so long as they're on the field and it doesn't impact business, most sporting organizations will take it. It's when things are happening off the field that you can't live with and you have two titans facing off on Sunday.

Well, and the ratings, I mean, you know, one of the things in terms of TV that going into this was the US Team had been playing poorly. TV ratings are very tied to the performance of the US for the World Cup. Also the Mexican team. And we had a bunch of things break in the right direction. You know, we had the U.S. mexico and Canada play really well. And the ratings, Randall, they're huge. Something. 40 million viewers at the peak on Fox for the US Belgian game. That was the game where they got eliminated. Another 10 million on Telemundo. You kind of have to torture the data on this, but there are people saying, oh, this is the biggest non NFL audience for a sporting event for anything since the 1994 Olympics. I mean, I think it's, it's, it's a huge number.

I think you're right. As I think about all of the most watched sporting events. You think of Caitlin Clark and you know, her, her reign at Iowa. You think of the 2024 Olympic gold medal game between France and the US and you go back to 2016 and the NBA Finals, which was LeBron 3:1 on the Warriors. And you go back farther to Michael Jordan. And I believe Michael Jordan's. The average viewership was around 35 million. But it doesn't surprise me that global tournaments draw these type of numbers because there are so many people that are interested, especially when the countries are Cinderella stories. Like, first of all, it's no coincidence that all of them made it to the. And then they got belted out of the tournament because there are levels to this in soccer. And I think that all of them would consider this a tremendous success. But if you ask them, would they have rather gone farther? Of course. But they Played against titans like Belgium, I would say is a B tier team, whereas the US has always teetered around C tier. And Mexico played England. And despite England not being able to capture a World cup championship in over 50 years, if not 60, I believe England is still a titan in the sport. And then of course you have Canada, which I think Canada to some people just were like, okay, they're happy to be here, but they competed well. And I believe they were eliminated by Morocco. And Morocco is probably the best African country competing in this. And so there's levels to this. And I think we played. The three countries played a great host. There was not a lot of controversy outside of, again, football on the field. And that's good for FIFA.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This has been like a huge win as we were talking about, but it didn't seem like it was necessarily gonna be because the US is not a big soccer country or it hasn't traditionally been. There were a lot of issues around immigration. People were worried about visiting from other countries. And the ticket pricing seems strange and very high. But it seems like everything went well. Like, where did everything go right?

[Max Chaffkin]

I really think that there was no meddling outside of Flo Baligan's red card that Trump asked FIFA to review. All of the things that could have gone wrong, didn't you think about, which is kind of crazy that we're talking about this now, but the shootings that have happened with ICE recently are happening on the tail end of the tournament in cities that are not host cities. If this had happened in the host cities, it would be a completely different issue and it would be highly politicized. The most political thing of this World cup has been President Trump in the red card.

Let's talk about that. And let's also talk about var, because you said, you said there's been no meta.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Well, you gotta explain what that is.

[Max Chaffkin]

Yeah, that's the video assisted referee. It's basically the use of robot referees technology, both instant replay and some sort of very interesting uses of technology to double check and in some cases overturn decisions that are made on the field. I've been watching this with a lot of interest, but one way where I do feel like FIFA has sort of come up a little bit short is on the use of V and its ability to explain this stuff. They put a chip in the ball, they've got all this tech. This is. I'm just going to play a quick clip from the Belgium US game. This was a disputed foul involving Fuller and Baligan, who's the US striker. See what the final decision is potential game changing moment. The number 20 United States Committee serial series fall.

[Tim O'Brien]

Yeah, it's gonna be a red card. The final decision is red car. Wow.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Red card means you're out of there, right?

[Max Chaffkin]

Yeah. Red car means you're out of there. For those who don't know. And a huge, huge swing in the game because not only did they throw Baligan out of the game, but the US Then had to play with one man fewer. So a potential game changing decision. Luckily for the United States, a very important US Soccer fan was watching this game, Homelander, and he.

[Jasmine JT Green]

Yeah.

[Max Chaffkin]

And he decided to do something about it.

[Tim O'Brien]

So I saw the play and I'm a person that loves sports and was a good athlete. And I understand sports really well. Really well.

[Max Chaffkin]

And that wasn't a foul.

[Tim O'Brien]

That wasn't even an infraction. That was two guys running full speed that happened to crash into each other. You can't take your foot and properly place it on somebody else's foot when you're going, no. These were two great athletes that got tangled up. And this referee, who

[Max Chaffkin]

is a little

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

bit suspect, I feel like this is like every sports fan throughout history, but actually with power, like, everyone's like, that wasn't a foul. What is this referee?

[Max Chaffkin]

The thing is, okay, first of all, Trump's kind of right. I mean, so the video assistant referee reviews this clip, slows it down, makes a judgment about Baligan, and you would think, okay, that's the end of it. But no, because Donald Trump calls by his own, as we just heard, calls. Gianni Infantino, the head of FIFA complains. And then what? Randall? A couple of hours later, a day

later, a policy within FIFA's rule book

is that no one ever knew about Article 27.

Right? And now Baligan is able to play. And I think the overall conversation about VAR is multi layered because you are right, technology is. It is good to use it in sports. We've seen the NBA implement reviews. We've seen the mlb. Their usage of technology has been brilliant. We've seen the NFL do a bunch of these things. A good portion of these things have enhanced the game, however, and this isn't the only one with Flo Bal again. There's also the match between Argentina and Egypt where Egypt scores on a counterattack and the goal is reversed 100 yards back. Now, granted, Egypt scored the exact same way a couple minutes later and they went up to ultimately losing to Argentina.

Also Croatia, Ghana, also Switzerland, Argentina. There have been a few of these where like the VAR is sort of right. But it feels like the implementation is off.

Right, Exactly. And so in Flo's case, it's very clearly an accident. And I think that there is a difference between accidental contact, between carelessness and putting someone in danger. But the rules don't state that. And so the problem really is the fact that it's not written in the rules.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's like the letter of the law.

[Max Chaffkin]

Right. As an organization, who creates the laws, you are supposed to abide by them.

Why doesn't it matter, Randall? I mean, the thing that I find so crazy about this is you had this, like, this obvious sort of rule change or finding a rule that had never been implemented before to give the US the tournament host, you know, an advantage in the game.

Sure.

And as you said, Belgium won and won handily, and in the end, it didn't really matter. But it's kind of surprising to me that fans are not turned off. It's almost like the corruption is part of the sport. It's.

I think controversy is a part of sports.

[Jasmine JT Green]

Yeah.

[Max Chaffkin]

And VAR is controversial. I would also say that fans in Belgium, in the US it was just corrected very quickly in the worst way possible because Trump was like, oh, you know, if we lose, it's going. It's corrupt, and it was rigged and all these different things.

[Jasmine JT Green]

Yeah.

[Max Chaffkin]

He was going full January 6th on the world Cup.

But we lost so handedly that there was no dispute, like you think, about the array of events that took place. Belgium scores first, the US Scores on a tremendous free kick, and then Belgium scores a minute after that. And then there's a mistake by the goalkeeper. Now it's 3:1. And then to top it all off, you have an exclamation point that is put on this. When another Belgian player scores and makes it 4:1, they left no doubt in the mind, in their minds. And I would argue that Trump ignited them, that they brought them together. And, like, you know what? We're going to embarrass them. And they did, like, after they scored that last goal, they were doing the Trump dance. And that's crazy.

We have the Women's World cup next year in Brazil. Men's World cup, four years from now. My question for you, Randall, is how is FIFA going to squeeze even more juice out of this? Like, they went up from 32 teams to 48 teams. They made all these changes this World cup to, like, basically get as much money out of this thing as possible. They added a freaking commercial break in the middle of soccer, which is something that doesn't happen. How is FIFA going to make even more money.

So I would anticipate that the water breaks will stay. And I think that water breaks are like ad breaks.

I call them ad breaks. Technically they're for.

They are commercial breaks. I think that they will stay and the broadcasters will be very happy about it. And Gianni's also talked about expanding this tournament to 64 teams.

[Tim O'Brien]

I love it.

[Max Chaffkin]

Now the, the question there is like, how many group stage matches become pointless to a certain degree because there were a lot of fun matches and I enjoy being able to watch every single match. However, when the Cinderella stories are essentially reached the shore in the round of 32 and they don't make it to the further rounds, the bigger nations are probably like, this is exhausting. But FIFA doesn't care. The question is going to be who can host, like we're talking about Spain, Portugal and Morocco in 2030. After that it'll be Saudi Arabia. There's an open slot in 2038 that I would guess it's going to be the U.S. i would, I would guess that the U.S. is going to host it because of our facilities here and stadiums, but after that, there are just not a lot of nations that have that many stadiums.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Is it bigger than the Olympics, the World Cup? Yeah. Like facilities wise?

[Max Chaffkin]

Yeah, I mean, I would say so because of the fact that it's all stadiums. They have a minimum requirement for the number of people. With that, the number of people that can be hosted in the stadium, I believe it was 40,000. So you expand that, that opens up more cities. There's going to be a lot of people interested. There will be brand new stadiums. You think of Nashville, you think of Vegas, you think of Washington D.C. for example. Now, I think the security concerns there would be heightened. But it's a money generator for these teams. These billionaires and billionaires love to make money, including Gianni, who I imagine will someday be a billionaire. And FIFA is not going to stop. They're going to continue to try to figure out ways to make money. And we're going to to keep putting money in their pockets because we're going to keep watching.

Randall Williams, thank you so much.

Appreciate you all for having me.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

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[Max Chaffkin]

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[Tim O'Brien]

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[Stacey Vanek Smith]

All right, Dina Shanker, you have come to us with an answer. I don't know what it is. I'm very excited to hear from you and thank you for joining us on our collaborative journey about Triscuits.

[Dina Shanker]

So I should start by Since I mentioned Aldi in the in the call, I should say Aldi did not have information that they shared with me. So.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay.

[Dina Shanker]

And in fact, the companies that sell these private label products, they either didn't get back to me or they told me we don't comment on supplier the

[Max Chaffkin]

Woven Wheat Wall of silence, you're saying?

[Dina Shanker]

That's exactly right.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This sounds like it's going deeper, but

[Dina Shanker]

I have other sources. So what I heard from a source who I trust.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Wait, is this an anonymous source? You had to go to an anonymous source?

[Dina Shanker]

Well, he's. This person is not anonymous to me. I know who this person is.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We went Deep Throat with Triscuits.

[Max Chaffkin]

But you know what, brands are very and grocery stores can be very secretive about this stuff, as Dena knows.

[Dina Shanker]

Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean Actually, it's pretty crazy how much sometimes, like, the private label version is actually made by the actual, like, branded manufacturer. That does not seem to be the case with Triscuits, but, like, that can very well be the case that, like.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay, what did Deep Throat say?

[Dina Shanker]

So here's what we got. Basically, there was one manufacturer of all of the private label Triscuits. One company was doing it, and they're not doing it anymore.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Why not?

[Dina Shanker]

So what I was told was that it basically, like, essentially, like, this wasn't a line of business that made sense for them is where I'll leave it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Did wheat prices go up too much or something?

[Dina Shanker]

You know, it's funny because I looked at wheat prices and wheat prices have. The wheat futures looked like they were all over the place. They're a little high now, but they're not at their highest. So I don't think it's wheat prices. I'm not really sure exactly why this no longer worked from a business perspective for this private label manufacturer, but now nobody's got them. And I will say I also like Triscuits and I also like the private label. So I'm pretty bummed because I actually used to buy a lot of these when I went to Aldi's for my Aldi story. This was like a regular purchase for me, was I would get the private. Because they really do taste the same.

[Max Chaffkin]

Now, Dina, is it possible that intellectual property plays a role here? I mean, I don't know. I don't know if you can copyright a Triscuit or whatever, but there have been lawsuits around private label or. Or disputes around private label products in the past. Any sign of that going on here?

[Dina Shanker]

So I believe that you cannot. That there is no IP in a recipe.

[Max Chaffkin]

Got it.

[Dina Shanker]

And so I don't think that that is what it about. Especially because Mondelez, the original maker of Triscuits, which sued Aldi for. For copying some of their products, most notably the Oreo product. Like, those products are still very much available. So it's not like all the Mondelez copycatted versions are gone as far as I could tell. It seems like this is very Trisket specific.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay. Just not money in Triscuits anymore. In off brand Triscuits.

[Dina Shanker]

Yeah. I mean, you either have to decide to, like, just like, spend the extra money on the Mondelez version or, like, try more crackers. There's lots of crackers out there. Lots of crackers out there.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Well, that is a word of comfort.

[Max Chaffkin]

There you have it for Julio.

[Jasmine JT Green]

Yeah.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Try different crackers or Pay up.

[Max Chaffkin]

Those are the choices.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I know. I hate that. That's. That's. I hate that.

[Max Chaffkin]

That.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That we don't have. Better news for Julio.

[Max Chaffkin]

We gotta thank Julio for writing in with this question. Everybody'[e-mail] that's. Everybody's with an [e-mail] she will be happy to drop what she's doing.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, and granular the better.

[Max Chaffkin]

And it doesn't just have to be related to food. We are interested in any potential conspiracies or mysteries that you might. You may want us to run down. We will. We will do our best.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We have to be a little careful, Mom.

[Dina Shanker]

I mean, if people are like, is the best chocolate bar out there, Dina, we need you to go, like, try them all.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I feel like that would need to be a team effort because it's so complex. Taste is so complicated, so subjective.

[Dina Shanker]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Dina, we can't thank you enough. And please thank your anonymous source for talking Triscuits.

[Dina Shanker]

Thank you guys so much.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is the kind of deep, intrepid reporting that we like to think of as our signature here at Everybody's Business.

[Max Chaffkin]

Great work.

[Dina Shanker]

Thanks. Thanks, guys.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thanks, Dina. This show is Produced by Jasmine J.T. green and Stacy Wong. Magnus Henriksen is our supervising producer, Sam Roga Chandel's engineering, and Dave Purcell fact checks. Special thanks to Jeff Muskus, Julia Rubin, and Maria Ling. If you have a minute, please rate and review the show. It means a lot to us. And if you have a story that should be our business, email us. Everybody's bloomberg.net that's everybody's with an [e-mail]

[Max Chaffkin]

we'll solve your mysteries.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We'll get Dina Shanker on the case. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next week.

[Jasmine JT Green]

This is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra Sosa at your favorite burrito spot. But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Willis Go up soon game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Max Chaffkin]

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[Jasmine JT Green]

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[Max Chaffkin]

Big transfer news today. Who's moving me to the cow with Domino's? Best deal ever since they just added stuffed crust.

[Tim O'Brien]

Any pizza, any toppings now with stuffed crust for 9.99.

[Max Chaffkin]

It's a long term contract with no

[Tim O'Brien]

Release clause only 9.99? Yeah, that sounds like the move. I'm heading straight to Dom. Mmm.

[Max Chaffkin]

Minnows.

Price is higher for some locations. Excludes Excel and specialty pizzas. Select this offer from 615 through 726 online only. Size availability varies by crust type. Max 7 toppings 6 for Ann and New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery. Prices, participation, delivery area and charges may vary.