Everybody's Business: ICE's Boiling Point

Podcast: Everybody's Business
Hosts: Max Chafkin, Stacey Vanek Smith
Guests: Fola Kenneby (Bloomberg CityLab), Sarah Fryer (Bloomberg)
Release Date: January 30, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the national uproar over the ongoing, aggressive ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) crackdown, recent protests in Minneapolis following the killing of Alex Preddy, and a deep investigation into the massive federal funding fueling current immigration policy. The hosts also discuss the shifting political and business reactions to the crisis, explore the business and ethics around new AI-powered IVF technologies, and close with their trademark "Underrated Stories" segment.

Key Segment Breakdown

1. Protests, Policy Shifts, and Political Fallout (00:27–07:11)

• Backdrop: Massive protests in Minneapolis and other U.S. cities following the highly publicized killing of Alex Preddy by ICE agents. Protests persist despite harsh winter weather, highlighting broad anxiety over the administration's immigration enforcement tactics.
• Political Response: Notable shift in the Trump administration’s tone after weeks of defensive posturing.
  • Trump replaced Gregory Bevino with Tom Holman to head the operation.
  • Lite conciliatory gestures toward Minnesota Governor Tim Walz after prior insults, but policy goals remain fundamentally unchanged.
  • Max Chafkin:

    "It does feel like, yes, a shift. I don't know how big a shift it is... it's gonna be a little tricky for him to totally walk away from this stuff. And I think that's gonna create lots of tension going into the midterm." (02:06)

• Economic and Business Impacts:
  • The enforcement effort is extremely costly—a major tension point given prior presidential rhetoric about budget cuts.
  • Public spectacle and perceived overreach have unsettled voters and corporate leaders.
  • CEOs (Tim Cook/Apple, Sam Altman/OpenAI) issue neutral-to-critical statements but stop short of directly opposing the administration.
  • Open letter from Minnesota-based companies draws a parallel to corporate gestures during previous waves of protest (i.e., BLM).

2. Showy Spending: "The Money Behind the ICE Crackdown" (07:11–18:20)

• Guest: Fola Kenneby, Bloomberg CityLab, joins for in-depth analysis.
• Scale and Scope of Funding:
  • The "Big Beautiful Bill" allocated $175 billion to immigration enforcement, making ICE second only to the U.S. and Chinese militaries in annual government funding.
    • For context: Between 1986 and 2013, the U.S. spent $180 billion on immigration enforcement in total.
  • Kenneby:

    "170 billion is a lot of money... it really changes what they are able to do. And I think we're seeing that play out in these cities across the U.S." (07:54)

• Oversight and Spending:
  • Much funding is spent on detention, enforcement logistics, and private contracting—with limited oversight.
  • Detaining one person now averages $17,000, due to the logistical complexity of relocating detainees and building new "pop-up" detention centers.
  • New contractors include private prison companies, tech surveillance/supplier firms, disaster management companies (for tents), and even winter apparel vendors.
  • Max Chafkin:

    "Who is administering this? ...Is there any kind of oversight over this process or how's it working?" (08:33)

• Detention System Expansion:
  • Construction of massive new facilities—e.g., the El Paso tent center at $1.2 billion for up to 5,000 detainees, along with plans to use repurposed e-commerce warehouses.
• Enforcement Mechanisms:
  • Tactics have shifted from border patrols to aggressive urban sweeps—a major escalation, drawing on military-style operations.
• Future Uncertain:
  • Congressional Democrats raising questions, but much of the money (and its use) is shielded from standard oversight by vague bill language.
  • Fola Kenneby:

    "The language is very vague, and it allows a lot of flexibility to whoever is deciding how this money will be set full." (14:12)

3. The Tech Response to Population Decline: AI, IVF, and "Conceivable" (18:58–31:16)

• Host Conversation: U.S. population estimates show decline, in part due to these immigration policies and falling birthrates.
• Interview with Sarah Fryer, Tech Editor (20:09–31:16):
  • Subject: The rise of AI-powered, fully-automated IVF labs, focusing on a startup called "Conceivable."
  • Key Details:
    • Conceivable adapts robotic tech from chip manufacturing and self-driving cars to perform embryo creation, making IVF potentially more affordable and reliable.
    • Early results: 19 babies born, 51% blastocyst success rate—on par with skilled human embryologists.
    • Technology is positioned to scale quickly, potentially lowering costs by reducing human labor and increasing lab productivity.
    • Sarah Fryer:

      "This very repetitive process that embryologists do... all those steps can be done in an automated way. And they've proven it—babies have been born, 19 babies at this point..." (22:47)

  • Ethics and Policy: Raises classic tech-ethics questions about automating essential life processes, possible errors at scale, and the tension between immigration restrictions and population-boosting measures.
  • Notable Quote:

    "We give over something so basic to the human race as the propagation of the species and we don't know exactly how it works, that is what scares people." (29:53)

4. Underrated Stories: Markets, TV, and Meme Investing (32:12–39:23)

• Industry TV Show: Realism in Depicting the Finance Sector

  • Interviews with real, young bankers in London reveal a surprising consensus: the BBC/HBO show "Industry" is dark but mostly accurate in its portrayal of pressure-cooker trading floors and the hunt for "alpha".

  • "They're searching for alpha, and it's stressful, but you're, like, always one step away or from, like, a fortune." (35:01)

• The Tale of Precious Metals and Safe Havens: Silver's Big Moment

  • Stacey Vanek Smith gives a tongue-in-cheek but revealing breakdown of why silver (long overshadowed by gold) is rallying—interpreted as a sign that investors are losing faith in U.S. treasuries as the ultimate global safe haven.

  • "Silver has never had the same status. ...it's kind of like a poor man's gold, but like really, really..." (36:43)

• Betting Mania: A note on the uneasy overlap of financial markets, gambling, and the pervasiveness of speculation in the sports world.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Max Chafkin on political optics:

  "The idea of sending these large masked groups into major American cities is not necessarily popular. ...it has helped make a thing that was already kind of politically dicey... a shift." (02:06)

• Fola Kenneby on scale of funding:

  "... they probably need more space than is available in all these jails and prisons across the US. ... They decide to start looking into like tent facilities." (10:47)

• Sarah Fryer on automating IVF:

  "It really was like a humans and robots story. Like, what do the robots need from the humans in order to succeed? What can't the robots do that the humans can?" (25:46)

• London banker on 'Industry' television show:

  "It's just real. Well, it's not real, but it's a realistic interpretation of what banking is." (34:22)

• Stacey Vanek Smith on silver:

  "Gold's like bitcoin. Silver...We're talking like a, I don't know, like a fart coin or something. Like maybe not quite a fart coin." (37:02)

Summary Table of Key Segments

| Time | Topic | Speaker(s) | Summary | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------|---------------------------|-------------------------------------------| | 00:27–07:11| Protests & Policy Shifts | Hosts | Minneapolis unrest, ICE killings, admin changes | | 07:11–18:20| The Money Behind ICE | Fola Kenneby, Hosts | Funding allocation, oversight issues, business winners | | 18:58–31:16| AI & IVF | Sarah Fryer, Max Chafkin | Robot-run IVF labs, ethical questions, tech’s promises | | 32:12–39:23| Underrated Stories: Industry, Silver, Markets, Gambling| All | TV realism, silver’s rise, meme markets, betting culture |

Concluding Insights

The episode paints a stark picture of how immigration enforcement has ballooned in scope and spending, with questionable oversight and ripple effects across politics and business. At the same time, Silicon Valley’s relentless drive to automate and optimize even the most intimate functions—like human reproduction—promises technical progress and profound new ethical dilemmas. Finally, as old financial safe havens lose their luster, both markets and popular culture display unmistakable signs of anxiety and transformation.

Endnote:
The hosts succeed in pulling back the curtain on how business, policy, and technology shape the news—and why, more than ever, these themes are "everybody's business."