Everybody's Business – "Pricey Copper, Bummed Consumers and a Bee Mystery Solved"

Podcast: Everybody's Business (Bloomberg & iHeartPodcasts)
Hosts: Max Chafkin, Stacey Vanek Smith
Date: July 10, 2025
Episode Theme:
The episode dives into three major stories shaping business and consumer sentiment: the impact of new sector-specific tariffs on copper, the perplexing malaise among American consumers (the so-called "vibe session"), and a fresh scientific breakthrough in the decades-long mystery of collapsing bee populations. The hosts explore how economic policy shifts affect everyday life, why persistent bad vibes matter even amid strong economic numbers, and what finally may be killing the bees.

Key Discussion Points

1. Copper Tariffs: A New Shockwave

Guest: Joe Doe, Bloomberg Economic Statecraft Reporter

• President Trump unexpectedly announced a 50% tariff on copper imports (09:09), sending markets reeling.
• Background: While steel and aluminum were previously targeted, copper became a surprise focus for national security-related sectoral tariffs under Section 232.
• Joe Doe: "The unified answer is, we're not really sure where this is coming from... [Trump] hears things like 'we used to be 80% reliant on our own copper,' and he thinks, 'Why can't we do that again?'" (12:05)
• The U.S. produces about 850,000 metric tons of copper but consumes 1.6 million, so it heavily relies on imports from allies like Chile, Canada, and Mexico.
• The rationale centers on national security: in worst-case scenarios (like war or pandemics), the government wants domestic self-sufficiency.
• On supply chain concerns: "The pandemic was an example where we realized we were way short on protective gear... The President is looking at these [tariffs] through that lens." – Joe Doe (13:49)
• Opening new copper mines is a decades-long process, complicated by environmental and indigenous rights challenges. The Resolution Copper mine in Arizona (inactive since 2008) is finally close to opening but still faces hurdles.
• Tariffs will quickly affect prices for consumer goods (electronics, wiring, cars), but major supply changes could take years: "It takes about 10 to 20 years to get a mine of any type up and running at commercial scale." – Joe Doe (16:03)

2. Tariffs & Everyday Life: Street Sentiment

• Stacey interviews commuters at Grand Central Station about the economy and tariffs. Common themes: anxiety about prices, delayed big purchases, and uncertainty about financial decisions.
  • Commuter: "I'm not buying as much. I'm definitely waiting if I need to make bigger purchases... trying to save more." (03:28)
  • People mention tariffs without prompting - illustrating how this once-forgotten topic is now top-of-mind.
  • Stacey: "Everybody brought up tariffs, which was really interesting... for so long, so many tariffs were basically zero... Now everyone has a thought on it." (04:26-04:52)
• Anxiety is widespread but not paralyzing — Americans are still planning weddings, making purchases, and moving ahead, but with a new layer of caution.

3. The "Vibe Session": Why the Bad Mood?

Guest: Ben Steverman, Bloomberg reporter

• The Consumer Sentiment Index (UMich) is at historic lows, despite "strong" economic data — a paradox since sentiment historically forecasts downturns.
  • Ben: "Consumers are almost 70% of the US economy, so it really matters what they do and how confident they're feeling." (21:49)
  • After serious declines in spring, sentiment remains "really, really bad on a historical basis." (22:21)
  • Historically, dips in this index have preceded recessions even when spending looked fine.
  • However, from 2022-2023, the index "failed" as a predictor: "People were feeling awful when inflation was spiking and the economy kept humming." – Ben Steverman (23:27)
  • Reasons: high inflation, but also rising incomes, low unemployment, "revenge travel," and pandemic aftereffects muddled the expected outcomes.
• History of the Index:
  • Established by George Katona, an émigré psychologist, during WWII (not an economist).
    • In the post-WWII era, economists forecasted a deep depression, but Katona's "vibes" survey suggested optimism — and the depression didn't materialize (25:00).
    • Multiple times in history, as in 1974, bad vibes preceded actual recessions when traditional data lagged.
  • Is this time different? Pandemic "broke our brains," so perhaps Americans' ongoing malaise is more psychological than rational economic threat.
  • Joanne Hsu, UMich Index Director: "It feels like on a daily basis I'm microdosing the zeitgeist of the American consumer... right now people are not feeling great." (27:25)
  • There is broad, bipartisan worry tariffs will spark inflation, which further worsens sentiment (27:17).
  • Joanne Hsu: "What I hope is that people take the American consumer seriously and understand that what we're doing here is backed by decades of science." (27:54)

4. Bee Mystery Solved: Varroa Mites to Blame

• Honeybee colony collapse has worried scientists, farmers, and the public for decades.
• Fresh UK-led research points to parasitic Varroa mites (and the viruses they spread) as the biggest culprit, not pesticides or other causes once suspected.
  • Stacey: "Apparently, if you look at the size of the mite relative to the bees it would be like the size of a dinner plate on a human." (31:02)
  • Mites have evolved pesticide resistance, making them harder to control.
  • The solution to colony collapse now points toward controlling these mites more effectively.
• Max’s anecdote: Max gifted his brother a box of Italian honeybees for the holidays, recounting the excitement (and the peaceful nature of bees): "I gave him a box of bees that came in the mail... There's so many in there." (32:20)
• No clear solution to eradicate mites yet, but identifying the cause is a big scientific step.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Max on Copper Tariffs:
  "He [Trump] just mentioned in an offhanded way, like, by the way, copper tariffs are going to be 50%... and the markets went crazy." (09:13)

• Joe Doe on Why Copper?
  "Having spent months now talking to various players in the market... the unified answer is, we're not really sure. If I could suggest where it might be coming from, I think it goes back to what you just said, which is there is still a small jobs aspect and it's another manufacturing based thing." (12:05)

• Commuter on Economic Worry:
  "I'm definitely waiting if I need to make bigger purchases... just trying to save more." (03:28)

• Ben Steverman on Sentiment Index:
  "In 2022 and 2023, it failed. This as a metric failed. Like the people were feeling awful when inflation was spiking and the economy kept humming." (23:27)

• Joanne Hsu on Her Work:
  "It feels like on a daily basis I'm microdosing the zeitgeist of the American consumer... right now people are not feeling great." (27:25)

• Stacey on Bee Mites:
  "The thing that is killing the bees are mites... the size of a dinner plate on a human." (31:02)

• Listener Feedback Haiku (Max):
  "Wish it was daily, you said, but please consider our mental health." (33:47)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:15] – Show kickoff: "It's all about feelings... tariffs, the economy, bees"
• [02:52] – Grand Central Station interviews: real people, real economic anxiety
• [07:48] – Revival of tariffs in the news, segment "Tariffs are back"
• [08:42] – Copper tariffs: Joe Doe segment starts
• [16:12] – Mining obstacles and Resolution Copper mine story
• [19:29] – "Vibe session": The consumer mood mystery, intro to Ben Steverman
• [20:12] – History and importance of the Consumer Sentiment Index
• [26:42] – Interview clips from Joanne Hsu, University of Michigan
• [30:17] – Bees: What’s really killing them? Mites! (underrated story segment)
• [32:20] – Max’s beehive gifting anecdote
• [33:16] – Listener feedback and haiku

Tone and Style

The episode is characterized by:

• Conversational, witty banter between Max and Stacey.
• Accessible explanations of economic wonkery (“vibes,” tariffs, supply chains) for a lay audience.
• On-the-ground human touches (literal man-on-the-street interviews, quirky bee anecdotes).
• A blend of deep reporting (Joe Doe, Ben Steverman) and engaging story-telling.

In Summary

This episode unpacks how sector-specific tariffs (especially on copper) are already rattling markets and reshaping consumer and business behavior. Despite strong macroeconomic data, public sentiment is deeply anxious, according to historic lows in the Consumer Sentiment Index — and the reasons seem intertwined with inflation, persistent stress, and the long shadow of the pandemic. Finally, the recurring “beepocalypse” story gets some closure with new science confirming that Varroa mites — not mysterious forces — are largely to blame.

Memorable closing: Listener haiku about wanting more episodes… and news that maybe a weekly bee podcast could be next: “Everybody’s Beesness.”

For more detail:

• Joe Doe’s tariff coverage and Ben Steverman’s deep dive on the Consumer Sentiment Index are available at Bloomberg.com.
• The episode offers a dynamic, real-world look at how “business” is truly everybody’s business.