The Robots Have Stolen Your Summer

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everybody's Business

Episode: The Robots Have Stolen Your Summer

Date: August 14, 2026
Hosts: Max Chafkin & Stacey Vanek Smith
Guests: Josh Brustein (Bloomberg Businessweek Tech Editor), Ashley Carman (Bloomberg Businessweek Media Reporter), Jasmine "J.T." Green (Producer & DJ)

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Episode Overview

This engaging episode of Everybody's Business explores how artificial intelligence (AI) and automation are dramatically reshaping both the tech and cultural landscape as we head deeper into summer 2026. The hosts, Max Chafkin and Stacey Vanek Smith, lead a lively discussion on the skyrocketing demand—and skyrocketing prices—for memory chips driven by AI, as well as the disruption AI is bringing to the music industry. The episode incorporates firsthand reflections, candid interviews, memorable anecdotes, and expert analysis.

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Key Segments & Insights

1. Chip Shortage & Price Surge: When AI Drives Up Your Mac Mini (00:57–16:00)

• Personal Anecdote:
  Max shares frustration about buying a new Mac Mini—paying $800 instead of the expected $600, with a six-week wait—sparking the episode’s primary business theme (03:16).

  • Notable quote (Max, 03:16):
    “Not only did I have to pay an extra $200 … I also had to wait like six weeks to get this thing.”

• Why Are Chips So Expensive?
  Guest Josh Brustein explains a new, acute shortage of memory chips, as AI companies (with massive budgets) are buying up most of the global supply. Memory chips, traditionally considered the “unsexy” part of semiconductors, have become the linchpin for AI functionality (04:48–06:18).

  • Notable quote (Josh, 05:03):
    “…AI actually requires a lot more memory chips than anyone expected.”

  • Double Squeeze: Macs need memory chips, and demand from both personal computing and AI is overwhelming manufacturers.

  • Producer Price Index: Electronics components up 28% year-over-year (07:11), and electronic computers up almost 10% (07:22).

• Why Didn't Companies Prepare?
  Memory chip manufacturers were cautious about expanding capacity due to historical boom/bust cycles and expensive factory buildouts. The sudden, permanent-seeming surge from AI caught many by surprise (08:17–09:17).

• Regional Impact—Idaho’s Boom:
  Stacey, Boise native, discusses the transformation of Micron (major memory chip company) and its effect on Idaho’s economy—“you can feel it” in increased luxury services and local wealth, with many Micron employees becoming millionaires almost overnight (13:05–14:52).

  • Notable quote (Wealth manager J.T. Belknap via Stacey, 14:42):
    “Had a gentleman come in…he said, ‘Well, I’m a million dollars richer.’”

• Outlook for Supply Relief:
  Relief is years away—factories take time to build. Expect the shortage to last until 2028 (11:56).

  • Companies leading the industry: Micron, Samsung, SK Hynix.

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2. AI in Music: From Novelty Hits to Industry Disruption (17:37–32:03)

• Cultural Impact—Field Interviews:
  Producer & DJ J.T. Green surveys Brooklyn concert-goers about AI music:

  • Overwhelming skepticism: AI is seen as “soulless,” a “cop out,” and a threat to small artists, especially Black and Brown creatives (18:33–19:41).
    • Notable quote (Club patron, 18:45):
      “I feel like it does take a lot from a lot of small black and brown creatives...”
    • Notable quote (Another, 18:53):
      “Everything that AI generates is sort of by nature soulless.”

• Rise of AI-Created Hits:
  Ashley Carman discusses the case of Phoenix Flexen’s “Rubbers,” a song suspected to be AI-generated, which has charted alongside human artists (20:31–21:13).

  • Notable quote (Ashley, 21:32):
    “…if you listen to any of his other music, it’s nothing like this. And it doesn’t even sound like his voice.”

• AI Tools Democratize Song Production—But at What Cost?
  Companies like Suno and Udio are not just Hobbyist toys—Suno is now valued at $5B and used for both novelty family songs and, increasingly, professional music production (21:54–25:17).

  • Suno’s founder, Mikey Shulman, stylizes it as “Instagram for music,” lowering barriers to hobbyists but intensifying competition for professionals (24:21).

  • Rights & Legal Battles:
    The music industry is concerned about copyright infringement. Many AI models are trained on copyrighted material with disputed arguments about fair use (26:12–27:01). Court cases are pending, and streaming services like Spotify and Deezer are experimenting with labeling AI-generated songs or artists (28:01–28:45).

  • Monetary Impact:
    Some AI bands—like country act Breaking Rust—are reportedly making up to $18,000 per month (29:39–29:51).

  • Will AI Music Ever Be ‘Cool’?
    So far, mass acceptance leans toward novelty and meme songs, not mainstream “cool” hits. Ashley predicts inventive uses will come, and the “cream will rise to the top,” but industry concerns remain (30:53–31:55).

    • Notable quote (Ashley, 31:54):
      “There was one artist…AI Persona…I wouldn’t say it was cool, but it was like real music that people enjoyed.”

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3. Meta Reflections, Fun, and The Future of Business (34:59–41:11)

• Underrated Stories:
  Max shares a lighthearted segment about the “rise of private equity boyfriends” among celebrities (35:00–38:08).

  • Notable quote (Wall Street Journal, cited by Max, 35:17):
    “This summer’s hottest arm candy is a private equity boyfriend.”

• AI Theme Song Experiment:
  Stacey, inspired by the AI music discussion, uses Suno to generate a ‘90s sitcom theme song for the podcast itself (39:22–40:27).

  • Max is entertained but firmly vetoes it as their permanent intro!
    Notable exchange (40:20–40:27):
    Max: “I also don’t want that to be our theme song. Just for the record.”
    Stacey: “Now, is this my conviction opinion? No. Agreed.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “AI actually requires a lot more memory chips than anyone expected.” — Josh Brustein, (05:03)
• “You can feel it in the state... all these luxury services cropping up.” — Stacey, about Idaho’s boom (13:05)
• “Had a gentleman come in…he said, ‘Well, I’m a million dollars richer.’” — Wealth manager (14:42)
• “I feel like it [AI music] does take a lot from a lot of small black and brown creatives.” — Brooklyn interviewee (18:45)
• “If art isn’t created by humans, then what is the point of the art?” — Stacey (19:54)
• “Suno is the Instagram to music...” — Max, summarizing founder vision (24:21)
• “There’s just this tidal wave of content...” — Ashley, on AI music flooding platforms (30:44)
• “The robots… they’re not just taking our jobs, they’re taking our hearts as well.” — Stacey (32:03)
• “Just for the record: I don’t want that to be our theme song.” — Max, on AI-created theme music (40:20)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:57] Show proper begins, AI economy theme set up
• [03:16] Max’s Mac Mini purchasing frustration
• [05:03] Why AI needs so many memory chips
• [07:11] Producer Price Index, electronics up 28%
• [13:05] Idaho/Micron regional boom—luxury services, local wealth
• [14:42] Wealth manager’s “million dollars richer” story
• [17:37] Shift to AI in music, field interviews in Brooklyn
• [18:45] Critique: AI’s impact on communities of color
• [20:31] Phoenix Flexen’s “Rubbers”—AI-generated hit?
• [21:54] Rise of Suno, the “Instagram for music”
• [26:12] Music industry legal concerns over AI training data
• [29:39] “Breaking Rust” AI band makes $18,000/month
• [39:22] Stacey creates AI theme song for the show
• [40:20] Max vetoes AI theme song

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Overall Themes & Takeaways

• AI’s enormous and sometimes unexpected effects on both business infrastructure (chips, tech supply chain) and culture (music creation, artistry, intellectual property) are now so pronounced that “the robots” really have stolen the summer of 2026.
• Supply shortages and price hikes in seemingly unrelated goods—like consumer computers—are a direct result of insatiable AI data center demand. Relief is years away.
• The music industry faces both threat and transformation: AI-generated songs saturate streaming, challenge traditional business models, and blur the line between hobbyist and professional, novelty and genuine art.
• Questions of authenticity, copyright, and value—What is art? Who gets paid? Will consumers care?
• Amid the disruption, humor and adaptability remain vital tools—whether in adapting to new investment trends or test-driving an AI-generated theme song for the show.

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Would you recommend this episode?

Absolutely—this episode is both timely and timelessly entertaining, offering a deeply informed and accessible exploration of major technology and cultural shifts, with a good mix of journalism, expertise, humor, and real-world context. Even as the “robots” take over, Everybody’s Business keeps it human.

Transcript

[Josh Brustein]

Modern enterprise.

[Max Chafkin]

It's a lot of moving parts.

[Josh Brustein]

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[Max Chafkin]

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[Carol Massar]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News.

[Max Chafkin]

Stacey Max Chaffkin as you know at Everybody's Business from Bloomberg businessweek, we love to cover the dynamism of the American economy.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We do love to cover the dynamism. You joke, but it is the truth.

[Josh Brustein]

It is the truth.

[Max Chafkin]

And this week we wanted to get into all of the different ways. You know, there are some obvious ways that AI is changing our lives, but then there are some maybe less obvious ways.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yes, exactly. And it's both on a cultural and an economic level. So for one of our stories, we were looking at how AI is changing both the art and the business of making music.

[Max Chafkin]

Yeah. In ways that are maybe good and bad. Maybe bringing music to more people while also destroying the livelihoods of an entire generation of musicians. And raking in tons of venture capital funds, which is the most important thing.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is always the most important thing. And the thing that is keeping these venture capital funds in business is, of course, the chip industry. The chip industry is underlying everything. It is the oil of our brave new economy.

[Max Chafkin]

Good news for your neighbors in Idaho. Maybe bad news for anyone buying a phone or a computer or a PlayStation or even a car.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Is this you asking for a friend? I know you have, like, a recent purchase on your mind that distressed you, but we're going to unpack that with Business Week tech editor Josh Brustein.

[Max Chafkin]

Yeah. And it will be Ashley Carman talking about Suno. We've got a great show. Stay tuned. I recently made a purchase and I'm kind of like a little bit upset about it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

What happened? What's going on?

[Max Chafkin]

So I bought a new computer, a Mac Mini.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The inexpensive ones? Yeah, the cute ones.

[Max Chafkin]

They're not as inexpensive as they used to be. Right before I bought it, I had checked the price and it was like $600 for this computer, which, for a computer is very good, very reasonable, but I actually paid $800 because Apple raised the price significantly. Not only did I have to pay an ext. Third $200. Yeah. I also had to wait, like, six weeks to get this thing, to get this computer. And I mean, whatever, I'm happy with the computer. They're doing good work in Cupertino. But it. It made me wonder why, like, what exactly is going on? I mean, I think we know the answer, but I want to talk about it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yes. This is obviously one of the hottest parts of our economy. I think the economy in a lot of ways is kind of mixed. But one part that has been sort of a shining beacon of hope is the tech sector, specifically AI and chips and all of that stuff. We have a great guest here to talk about it. Joshua Brustein, tech editor at BusinessWeek. Welcome, Josh.

[Josh Brustein]

Thanks for having me.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

All right. The chip industry, tech. You've been watching this for a while. What is happening right now in this part of the economy?

[Josh Brustein]

Well, what we're seeing is that there aren't enough chips.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay.

[Max Chafkin]

This is pretty simple.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is why Max is paying more, more for his computer.

[Josh Brustein]

The reason Max is paying more of his computer is because of AI. He's actually getting it from both sides. People want those Mac Minis because they want to run their AI agents, but also those Mac Minis need something called a memory chip, which, because AI data centers want so many of these things, there are fewer around to go into things like your personal computers. And so companies that make those computers have to decide whether they're either going to eat the cost of those memory chips or pass them on to you.

[Max Chafkin]

Yeah, I mean, when I was buying this, not only did I have to wait, but there are none of these devices available in any of the other sellers. Like, you can't buy it at Best Buy, you can't buy it from Amazon, because normally Apple products show up in retailers often discounted. I checked there. I was like, oh, maybe there'll be a prime day discount.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This is always the dream.

[Max Chafkin]

No prime day discount, Nothing. Here's what I don't understand, Josh. When we were hearing about this AI Boom, maybe a year ago, the thing that everyone was talking about were the GPUs, the. These graphical processing units which were used for crypto. This is a business that Nvidia dominates. It's why Nvidia is, like, one of the most valuable companies in the world. Why are we suddenly talking memory chips?

[Josh Brustein]

Yeah, you're Absolutely. Right at the beginning of the AI boom, we talked a lot about Nvidia. They make basically the chips that do the thinking. And the memory chips traditionally have been known as the unsexy chips of the industry. If you talk to someone who's worked in memory chips, they'll feel a little bit underappreciated. They're bas interchangeable commodities. And all the cool stuff went with the logic chips to the extent that anything is cool in the semiconductor industry. And then what happened was it turned out that AI actually requires a lot more memory chips than anyone expected. It's sort of complicated, but basically the reason is that the actual answering of the questions requires more processing power than we expected.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Like when you type in, where should I go on vacation?

[Josh Brustein]

Yeah, exactly.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It just sucks a whole bunch of energy out.

[Josh Brustein]

You just need a lot more memory chips to do that. Called inference than people thought it would. And so much so that memory chips have actually, they're being redesigned in a way to do this one specific thing. And the way they do that just takes a lot more of the memory chips than it takes to go into your Mac. Mini and AI companies have as much money as they want, and so they are buying up everything, and that leaves less for everybody else.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So what does that mean for the supply chain? Like, how does this get to Max's computer? So there's, I guess, a shortage. They can't make them fast enough. And then you have people with unlimited money who can pay for what's there. And is the price, like, going way up?

[Josh Brustein]

Yes, and that's a very simple way of putting it. I think the price is estimated to triple from what it was before the shortage.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

When did the shortage start?

[Josh Brustein]

It started sometime last year, really in earnest as AI companies started buying more and more memory chips. And it's hard to scale up manufacturing of these things because memory chip factories are these huge multibillion dollar projects. They take years to build. So the industry can't, like, suddenly just make eight times as many.

[Max Chafkin]

Just to underline this, the price increases that we're talking about, the ppi, Stacey, that's the producer price index.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, it's just wholesale prices. So it's what businesses are paying for the raw materials they're buying.

[Max Chafkin]

O up 28% for electronics components and accessories. Indeed, in June, year over year, and

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

almost 10% for electronic computers and computer equipment.

[Max Chafkin]

And Stacy and I were looking at the CPI yesterday for chips.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I think it was the price for chips.

[Max Chafkin]

Oh, sorry, price. Looking at a chart of the price of chips, it's basically just like going down, going down, going down the 80s for decades, right?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Because it was like such a huge.

[Max Chafkin]

They always get cheaper. And then it just like turns up like some kind of a terrifying wave.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

A hockey stick.

[Max Chafkin]

A hockey stick. I tend to avoid that metaphor, but, yeah, a hockey stick. And then the way it's filtering down to consumers, not just my computer, but. But like all computers, Josh. Like, why weren't they better able to anticipate this? I mean, Apple's supply chain is. They're famously sophisticated. Is it just that they were already trying to absorb all these other costs, you know, the tariffs and all that stuff, or. I mean, do you have any sense of why people are so caught by surprise here?

[Josh Brustein]

Well, it's interesting. The memory chip industry in particular has a long cycle that's lasted basically for decades where demand goes up because something happens in the economy. Demand for PCs, demand for AI, whatever. And all of a sudden there's all this demand. And the memory chip companies say, oh, man, we could really capitalize this. And they start building these chip fabs. It takes a couple of years. They're unbelievably expensive. They get the new factories ready and the economic cycle has turned, and then they are just left with a glut of chips. And because these things are commodity all they can, they just have to sell them, the price goes down. Memory chip companies are always going out of business. And so a couple of years ago, when the memory chip companies were doing really well, they were really wary to really expand capacity at that point, to be fair, they didn't know exactly what was going to happen with AI, but they're very worried about getting into the situation where they overbuild and get left with these incredibly expensive factories that then force them to go out of business.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So I grew up in Boise, Idaho. It's home of Micron, which was a chip company started in the 80s. And I remember it was one of the biggest employers in the state. And when I was a little kid, it was very fancy. Like, if you worked at Micron, it was a big deal. Like all these, like, really educated people from California would come in and they had with their sophisticated kids who would be the coolest kids in the school. But then there was a big, big crash. And I just remember layoffs and closings. It was really, really hardship for the state. Is it possible that we will no longer see that kind of boom and bust? Because I've always thought of chips as. I mean, everyone has asked me, did you buy Micron stock The answer is no, because, you know, it was such a formative thing in high school. I was like, you cannot invest in chips because it's too cyclical. But I was clearly wrong. And the Stock was up 1000% at one point. But is. I mean, are we past the time when this is a cycle or is.

[Josh Brustein]

Well, that's like the most dangerous question you can ever ask, right? This time is different.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

We like to ask dangerous questions here at Everybody's Talk.

[Josh Brustein]

Go ahead and invest all your money. It's safe now. No, I mean, I think there's a lot of argument right now that we have reached a new moment for the memory chip industry. It is not going to have these booms and busts. The demand is so far outstripping supply, and it seems like it's a permanent shift in demand.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And our world is changing, our economy's changing, and it's just going to need more chips.

[Josh Brustein]

Everything is different if you talk to people. I was speaking to a former Micron executive just the other day, and he was saying, we're cheering Micron. This is so great after all of these tough years. You alluded to the layoffs that you experienced in Boise. Things have been so hard, and finally it looks like we're in a good place. And then I said, well, does it seem like AI has changed things? Everything's different. And he got very nervous and he said, well, I'm skeptical of that because, you know, every time you always say it's different this time. And so there's a lot of talk about, are we in an AI bubble? And if something happens and all of these data centers were more than we needed, or there's some sort of harsh contraction, those memory chip makers could be, you know, it could go back to another bust. So things are definitely different this time, but are they permanently different? You know, it's hard to tell.

[Max Chafkin]

So, okay, so there are basically three companies that make memory chips, right? There's, there's Micron. Stacey mentioned Samsung, Big Korean, you know, electronics conglomerate or conglomerate. And then SK Hynix. Right? Those are the three. They're all crushing it. I mean, and, and so are they making more chips now?

[Ashley Carman]

Are they.

[Max Chafkin]

Are they investing this money in. In building capacity?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Max and his future computer buying self wants to know.

[Josh Brustein]

So they are. It takes a while to bring these things online. Most of the estimates I've seen to get to the point where we start seeing an ease in this, in this supply crunch is maybe 20, 28. So it just takes a long time to bring these things up to speed. Micron's actually building a big two facilities in Boise, I think one in upstream,

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

there's one in New York. Yes, they always. I always hear about this.

[Josh Brustein]

They're very excited to be building.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, it states well, especially New York. It's like we are building, we are creating jobs in New York. This is like a big thing in Idaho. Well, well, well. Do you know what I mean? Like, Idaho is creating jobs in New York. How do you like us now?

[Josh Brustein]

That's like your conversation when you call home and talk to your high school friends.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Well, not exactly that, but it, it comes up a lot. Like, because, yeah, it looms so large. There's this idea of, like, now we are creating jobs elsewhere in the country.

[Max Chafkin]

But, Stacey, what is it like in Idaho? I mean, I think you're the only one of us who's been there, who's. I mean, I'm complaining about the boom in memory.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

You're creating jobs in your state.

[Max Chafkin]

But what is it like? Talk about just like, how. I mean, I assume everyone's like, loving it. They're loving the extra couple hundred bucks people are spending on. On Mac Minis.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

You can feel it, actually. You can feel it in the state. When I went there, like, there are just like all these car dealerships and truck dealerships selling a ton. There are also all these funny. I mean, it's never been, like a wealthy place, but now, like, there are all these, like, luxury services cropping up. Like, there was this one, I think it's Silverhawk Aviation, but it's like a helicopter, like a private flight thing. And their business is booming and they've launched all these funny services. Like there's one called the James Bond Dinner where you can helicopter from just outside of Boise to, like, a ranch out in the countryside where you can have a steak dinner. And there's like a cigar silo, so you can enjoy cigars and wine. And then they will fly you back.

[Max Chafkin]

And it's a silo like a corn. It's like a corn storage silo you're smoking cigars in.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Got it. Yes. That they have retrofitted to become a cigar smoking area. And then they'll fly you back. But it's like $1,400. But it's like these services, well, and fishing, like the fancy fishing and rafting, the guided trips, those are all sold out. Like, it's. There's just so much money because so many people in Micron own stock. The stock's gone up so much. I actually spoke with this wealth manager There who works with a lot of Micron employees. His name is J.T. belknap. It's treasure Valley Wealth Management. He's been a wealth manager there for 20 years. A lot of time of that time Micron was doing okay but not killing it. And now like all of his clients are coming in, he said, kind of like stunned, looking at their portfolio. So here's, here's what he said.

[Max Chafkin]

Had a gentleman come in and one of the first things we asked him was, hey, has anything changed since we met eight days ago that we need to be aware of? And he said, well, I'm a million dollars richer.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So yeah, the guy just like made him. It was, this was over this eight day streak where the stock went up by like a thousand percent.

[Max Chafkin]

Was it always called the Treasure Valley, Stacy, or is that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's called. No, this is like they, at a certain point they named all these things in Idaho to try to get people to move there. It's very deserty. So they call it like the Gem State Treasure Valley is now.

[Max Chafkin]

It is Treasure Valley.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That's true, yes.

[Max Chafkin]

Josh Brustein, we'll have to have you back to kind of continue to explore this. Thank you for being here.

[Josh Brustein]

Thank you.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Thanks, Josh.

[Josh Brustein]

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[Carol Massar]

This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Now with ChatGPT work, I'm Carol Massar. DoorDash, the largest food delivery company in the U.S. is building its own delivery drones and has gained the necessary FAA approvals to operate them commercially. The latest in its effort to delegate more orders to robots as a way of cutting delivery times. Bloomberg's Natalie Leung reports. The company says it has been conducting pilot programs with various restaurants, some of which have seen their order volume grow during the test period. The effort marks an expansion of DoorDash's in house robotics efforts to reduce reliance on human couriers for some orders, as their wages constitute a key expense to the business. Drones are also a way for DoorDash to cut delivery times on orders from more remote locations that some dashers may not want. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and Projects get [e-mail] today by selecting work mode available on plus and Pro plans.

[Max Chafkin]

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[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So, Max, we are talking this week about the rise of the robots. And of course they are not just taking over our economy. They are common for every part of us, even our art, even music.

[Max Chafkin]

And we're so lucky on this show to have a producer, Jasmine J.T. green, who is not only a brilliant

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

podcast star, I know she's the secret double life.

[Max Chafkin]

She is a, she's a dj, like

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

a really well known dj.

[Max Chafkin]

She goes, she, she is out on the music scene all the time. And we've been talking about this, this question of AI in music. There, there are, of course, some, you know, semi popular, popular AI generated songs. But we wanted to have Jasmine ask some folks at a music venue, you know, how they felt about this, like, how did, what do they think of AI generated music? She was out and about in Brooklyn and here is what she found. So what do you think about AI generated music? There's pros and cons.

[Josh Brustein]

However, I think more con.

[Max Chafkin]

I feel like, like it's something that shouldn't exist at all.

[Josh Brustein]

I feel like it does take a

[Max Chafkin]

lot from a lot of small black and brown creatives, I think it's sort

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

of a cop out. I definitely feel like everything that AI generates is sort of by nature soulless.

[Max Chafkin]

It's good for, like, inspiration.

[Josh Brustein]

I feel like AI can be a tool, but because of the environmental implications that it has and the fact that it's ripping from people and not used

[Max Chafkin]

to create something new.

[Josh Brustein]

Whereas auto tune, the synthesizer, those were made from people by people.

[Max Chafkin]

I know one artist in particular, he had like, I think One of the AI models took about 60 of his songs, right? So about two albums worth or maybe three albums. AI doesn't care about copyright. You know, we still need a human

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

mind, a human creativity to sort of guide it in the direction that the

[Max Chafkin]

human wants to go to.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

But it can also be a shortcut

[Max Chafkin]

for people who maybe are not sort

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

of, you know, tapped into the source as others are.

[Max Chafkin]

Wow. There's some, some sophisticated points, some hot takes. I know, it's funny, the, the point about it not being human. I mean, that's. That's deep. I feel like that is the core question, especially when we're talking about these.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

If art isn't created by humans, then what is the point of the art?

[Max Chafkin]

And we have somebody here who could help us untangle. There's so much untangle, not these naughty questions. Ashley Carmen Bloomberg REPORTER covering media welcome, Ashley. Hello, Ashley. We were talking before you got here about this hit new song. Some are even calling it the song of the summer. This is Phoenix Flex, and the song is called Rubbers with the Z. Let's give a listen.

[Josh Brustein]

Swiping cards and stacking chips I saw

[Max Chafkin]

you sinking ships Left me standing in the pouring rain Now I bought a heavy diamond chain.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

It's like Craftwork meets the Smiths.

[Max Chafkin]

Thank you.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That's Daisy.

[Max Chafkin]

That was very well. Nicely done. I had not heard this song before we started talking about the question of AI in music, which Ashley has written a fantastic story about in the new issue of Business Week. But apparently other people are talking about this song. It is charting on real charts, Ashley,

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

despite not having fake charts, you know,

[Max Chafkin]

despite the fact that I think it's suspected or do we know for sure that they've used AI in this?

[Ashley Carman]

So I think for context, because if you just hear that song, you're kind of like, okay, like, sounds like a good song. Like, why? I don't know. Why are we even talking about this related to AI but you kind of have to realize that this is a rapper that's doing this, and if you listen to any of his other music, it's nothing like this. And it doesn't even sound like his voice.

[Max Chafkin]

People talk about, like, generative AI feeling like magic. This is the only area that, to me, actually feels like magic. Like the fact that you can type a few words and make a song, make a computer, like, spit a song out. And this company, Suno, that's like the leader in this, what are they worth? $5 billion? I mean, they're having a moment. What is happening?

[Ashley Carman]

Yeah, so this has been kind of boiling below the surface, I would say, you know, Suno's been around. There's another company, Udio. There's a few different companies that are really trying to make it so that anyone can create a song. Suno, I would say at this point, has kind of become the market leader. They've raised a ton of money from really institutional investors. They have the user base, people are using it, and the outputs sound pretty good. So I would say we've just sort of reached this inflection point where, okay, the money's here, the users are here, and the streaming services are starting to speak up about the fact that there is just a ton of AI generated music hitting their services per day. And so then you have the artist community, the record label community, speaking out because they're quite concerned about a lot of things, one of which is saturation in the marketplace.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So there are a lot of different kinds of music, and the music industry is pretty vast. I feel like the kind most of us are familiar with is like, you know, you like the kind that you listen to and download on your own, like a song that you like or an artist that you like. But what is there, like, a part of the market that AI is, like, really invaded or infiltrated? Like, where is AI really showing up? I mean, I imagine it's not a lot of hits.

[Max Chafkin]

Like, this is unusual. I think the Phoenix Flexen thing or newer maybe.

[Ashley Carman]

Well, this is why it's pretty tricky, because I would say the Phoenix Flexen thing, like we talked about, really stood out because you had this hip hop artist all of a sudden doing, like, new wave. But then you have AI being used in the studios where maybe it's helping write a song. Like, maybe it's giving lyric suggestions, maybe it's spitting out a riff, and the producers in the studio are like, that was pretty cool. Let's just record that.

[Max Chafkin]

Or build off of it with real instruments.

[Ashley Carman]

With real instruments. So you really won't be able to fully tell. Like, this is very specifically a fully AI generated song that we talked about. But, like, there's plenty of probably AI assisted music out there, and, like, that's. Who knows how deep that goes.

[Max Chafkin]

So one of the things I loved about this story that you wrote with Lucas Shaw, our colleague, is it kind of a portrait of the founder of Suno. And I was a little bit disappointed to learn that, like, he seems to actually be into music. Like, I was sort of imagining just somebody who was just gonna relentlessly devalue creativity.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

This could be pancakes. This could be, like hubcaps songs.

[Max Chafkin]

But no, no. Mikey Shulman is, you know, really into music. The. The story opens up with this anecdote where he's in a. You know, he's at a concert, he's really rocking out. And his idea is that Suno is the Instagram to music in the same way that Instagram allowed everyone to make, like, kind of fun family photos and. And. And sort of bring some of the artistry that you associate with professional photography to your home. Photography. SUNA will let you screw around and make like a Thanksgiving family song or. Or that sort of thing. And. And that feels less threatening to the music industry than, like, what you guys are talking about right now. Now, what was interesting in the story is that there seems to be a little bit of a tension within the company and among maybe some of its partners, which is like, is that the vision or is it more that SUNO will eventually just replace all music or. Or become sort of a streaming platform in the way that Stacy is kind of talking about?

[Ashley Carman]

Well, suno's kind of doing it all right now, other than really they do have a streaming platform inside their app. Like, you can listen to other people's songs. But I think the threat that you're kind of speaking to is, yes, theoretically, someone creating a Thanksgiving song for their family is not a threat to the broader music industry. But you could argue also that if you're spending all your time listening to your Thanksgiving song, which people do they listen to the songs that they make because they're proud of it and it sounds perfectly acceptable. Maybe. Plus it has some personal touches, makes them feel good. That time they're spending there means they're not listening to music from professional artists. So you could argue that actually even that use case is a threat to the music business.

[Max Chafkin]

But it does seem like there's a category of music where people are not listening that closely where that. Where it could be threatened.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, like in the supermarket or.

[Ashley Carman]

Oh, for sure. I mean, but those are use cases where also rights holders get paid.

[Carol Massar]

Yeah.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I mean, Muzak.

[Ashley Carman]

So, like, this is the thing. Is that really the original sin for the record labels that they see from SUNO and from rights holders, and we have an investor in the article who talks about this is that they allege that suno, in order to get its model trained on a whole bunch of copyrighted material, and that none of these artists or rights holders or labels, anyone is getting paid.

[Max Chafkin]

And it's not just. I mean, SUNO acknowledges. They just say that it was perfectly fine.

[Ashley Carman]

Yeah, there's. It's the fair use argument.

[Max Chafkin]

Right? Yeah. Sooner.

[Ashley Carman]

Which is playing out in court like they are being soon.

[Max Chafkin]

Yeah. They're like, yeah, we did listen to all this music and stuck it into our algorithm.

[Carol Massar]

Right.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Because you can say, like, I want this song in the style of Bad Bunny. And then it's ostensibly, listen to all the Bad Bunny songs. And it's like, great, here's a new Bad Bunny song about.

[Ashley Carman]

Describe Bad Bunny. Like, it might help you more describe what Bad Bunny sounds like. But, yes, it can probably get you pretty close. So with that said, I mean, the idea would be ideally. And we have Warner Music Group CEO Robert Kinsel in the article talking about. Because they're the one major record label with Suno. And so he says in the article, he's like, actually, I would love if people use Suno at restaurants, because I'm going to make more for my artists. And for us, if it's playing Suno music, because our deal is really favorable is kind of what he's arguing there.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Wait, I don't understand that.

[Ashley Carman]

So when music is played in restaurants and stuff, there are royalties being paid out. It's very complicated, but there are royalties that are paid. And he's basically saying, like, there's a world in which AI music plays and no one's getting paid for that. It's just like, SUNO is loaded up and the music's playing and no one's getting paid for that. But if Suno is playing in a world where there's licensing deals, then the Warner Musics of the world can actually get paid royalties based on that use case. So right now, really, no one's getting paid when AI music is played publicly.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

But it wouldn't be a problem if no one was using it. So, like, who's using it?

[Ashley Carman]

So real artists are actually using this. But then you have this really long tale of, like, in the story, we have a dad who lives in Tennessee, and he just loves to write to lyrical lyrics. He loves writing songs. He's not a musician in any way. And now he's used pseudo and he created a song for his family, and they host little dance parties, and it's really inspired them all. Yeah. And so some of the platforms now are trying to be a bit more transparent. Deezer has really been on top of this. They're a French streaming platform. They label AI generated songs. Spotify recently is taking a different tack, where instead of outright labeling AI songs, they want to label AI Personas. So the idea is if you have

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

like an AI band or something.

[Ashley Carman]

Exactly. So the idea is like, maybe you hear a song and you're like, I really like this. Like, who's this bi? I kind of want to go deeper. You go into their artist profile and you will see, oh, it's an AI Persona. And you can feel whichever way you want about that. Maybe you do want to keep going deeper. Or you're like, oh, this was an AI song. I did like it, but now I know it's created by an AI Persona and not like a human. So I'm gonna not listen to that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I was looking around for some data on, like, how big this has gotten, because Max, who sits next to me in the office, was like, how much can this possibly make? And it's interesting. There's this site called Slop Tracker, which, like, tracks a lot of this stuff. And apparently, like, there are these artists comically. Like, they're profiling a bunch of, like, country western AI artists. But there's one called Breaking Rust.

[Ashley Carman]

Oh, yeah.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Which is just a fantastic name for any band. But this is an AI band. Apparently. They're making, like, they've made about $300,000. Their monthly income is about 18,000, so it's not, like, as much as a real artist would make. But.

[Ashley Carman]

No, that's pretty good, though.

[Max Chafkin]

So this is clearly, like, a new and emerging trend, but I don't think we've really seen an AI generated thing become cool. And, like, so much of music is about, like, being cool. Like, some of a lot of these songs have been. There's. There's some novelty stuff. It's sort of, like I was saying, like, it would be really hard if you're, like. If you're a Weird Al, you know, aspirant. Because, like, Weird Al.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Do you think of Weird Al as cool?

[Max Chafkin]

No, I'm saying that's the kind of music that AI has kind of replaced so far.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Like parody.

[Max Chafkin]

Parody music. Kind of like goofy novelty acts.

[Ashley Carman]

Yeah. Like meme.

[Max Chafkin]

And maybe we're seeing little emerging, you know, bits of that with Breaking Rust as Stacey's talking about or rubbers or whatever. But, like, do you think it's possible that people could unironically like this stuff? Or are we really just kind of riding a wave of hype?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Or novelty.

[Max Chafkin]

Or novelty. Yeah. That's a good way to put it.

[Ashley Carman]

Well, I think. Right. It starts as the memes, because Suna wants people to be like, I want to get in on that. And then they start paying to generate songs to go viral on TikTok, and then maybe they start messing around a little bit more, and all of a sudden they're, like, creating just. Just regular songs. But I think we talked about Slop a little bit and this idea that there's just this tidal wave of content coming upon us all. I do think eventually the cream will rise to the top. Like, you need to have a really good sound, and that is how you're going to stand out in the future. And I would not be surprised if people use AI to do something inventive again. Where the music business gets concerned is they're like, we want to make sure we get some piece of that somehow. But I wouldn't be surprised if people are doing really inventive things. There was one artist maybe a year ago, Zanaya Monet. She's an R B artist. AI Persona, I guess we can call it. And those songs are from the heart. Supposedly this real human wrote them and it tells like some true stories from like the R B world that are, you know, they'll hit you in the heart. And I wouldn't say it was cool, but it was like real music that people enjoyed and really did. You identified with? I think it was good. Yeah. I mean you could. Yes. Like you could identify with it potentially.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Like you thought the writing was good.

[Ashley Carman]

The writing was real. It felt real. So I wouldn't count AI music fully out.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The robots, they're not just taking our jobs, they're taking our hearts as well.

[Max Chafkin]

As long as rights holders are getting Stacy, I am happy. That's the real question.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

That's the real heart of the matter.

[Carol Massar]

This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Now with ChatGPT work, I'm Carol Massar. DoorDash, the largest food delivery company in the U.S. is building its own delivery drones and has gained the necessary FAA approvals to operate them commercially. The latest in its effort to delegate more orders to robots as a way of cutting delivery times. Bloomberg Bloomberg's Natalie Leung reports. The company says it has been conducting pilot programs with various restaurants, some of which have seen their order volume grow during the test period. The effort marks an expansion of DoorDash's in house robotics efforts to reduce reliance on human couriers for some orders, as their wages constitute a key expense to the business. Drones are also a way for DoorDash to cut delivery times on orders from more remote locations that some dashers may not want want. That's the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by ChatGPT. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get [e-mail] today by selecting work mode available on plus and Pro plans.

[Max Chafkin]

Amazon Health AI presents painful thoughts I I can't stop scratching my downtown. Yeah, but I'm not itching to go downtown and tell a receptionist I'm here to talk about my downtown. Some things you'd rather type than say out loud. There's no question too embarrassing for Amazon Health. AI chat your symptoms and get virtual care 24. 7 Healthcare just got less painful

[Josh Brustein]

this summer.

[Max Chafkin]

There are 250 reasons to join T

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Mobile Girls Trip booked and switching to

[Ashley Carman]

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[Josh Brustein]

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[Max Chafkin]

plus $650 in value in built in plan benefits. That's $750 in your first year guaranteed.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And honestly that hundred dollars back I'm

[Ashley Carman]

putting it towards the zipline now.

[Max Chafkin]

That's how you do summer.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Exactly.

[Ashley Carman]

Best switch I ever made.

[Max Chafkin]

This is just one reason to join T Mobile this summer. There are 250 reasons. Find yours

[Josh Brustein]

Savings based on the value

[Max Chafkin]

of benefits included with experience beyond like entertainment and one year of AAA Classic and DashPass on us. Benefits may require activation. See plan for details. Get 100 via virtual prepaid MasterCard with eligible ported, no cash access and expires in 6 months. Issued by Sunrise Banks and a member FDIC. Allow 8 weeks Stacy Underrated story time.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yes it is.

[Max Chafkin]

I want to go first and the thing I want to talk about, you know, one of the big meta themes I think in the world of business over the last decade or so, besides the rise of the robots has been the way that private equity, shall we say, kind of ruins a lot of business.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The rise of private equity.

[Max Chafkin]

The rise of private equity but also the way that kind of the private equity business model changes companies in ways that makes consumers unhappy. We've talked about this on the show before. Megan Greenwell, our Business we contributor, wrote a whole book about private equity kind of messing up industries. I found a new industry that private equity is poised to shake up. Really the celebrity relationship industry. According to the Wall Street Journal quote this summer's hottest arm candy is a private equity boyfriend. So having I did not even know this having revolution.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

The summer's not over quite yet.

[Max Chafkin]

Some would say damaged the world of medicine. Having having done a million roll ups restaurants. The latest roll up is the celebrity match Reese Witherspoon. According to this article, Reese Witherspoon's eating

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

a private equity guy.

[Max Chafkin]

Private equity guy Nicole Kidman Private equity guy Olivia Rodrigo Private equity guy Andy Cohen Private equity guy they're everywhere.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

I guess they just have a lot of money and a lot of time because it doesn't take that long to strip a place for parts. Sorry, that is a terrible way to describe private equity. It's not entirely private equity guys.

[Max Chafkin]

We love you. We can't. We do love you because we love There are some amazing quotes in this story. So Jordy Hayes. He is a co host of a tech podcast, TB P M. Whether they want to admit it or not, many women have always been attracted to bad boys and risk takers. I can't think of any archetype of a man that fits that description more today than capital allocators that put it all on the line every day.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Everything is wrong with this idea.

[Max Chafkin]

Interesting theory. I think he's kidding.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Anytime you start a sentence out with the thing that women want and you are not a woman, you just never. Okay, okay, go ahead.

[Max Chafkin]

This is Kevin o', Leary, the Shark Tank guy. The guy who kind of plays the heel on Shark Tank.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yes. The one who wore flip flops and wants to drain the Great Salt Lake.

[Max Chafkin]

He got really into crypto for a while. He may still be. I can't remember, quote. If you live in the celebrity bubble, party after party with the same people, the same 25 people, life gets really boring. When you end up with a private equity guy. Your life gets far more interesting.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Oh, my God. So he just assumes women are sitting around and they're uninteresting. Oh, my gosh. I'm just having so many problems with this.

[Max Chafkin]

I think this one is a little. Honestly, a little bit less objectionable. I think he may be pointing out that a lot of celebrities end up hanging out with other celebrities. And so when you're in that world,

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

anyone working in private equity is more interesting than. Than celebrity life.

[Max Chafkin]

I think what he's saying is that anyone who's not in that world might be more interesting, but to which I would say maybe try dating somebody who's not a private equity guy and see where that.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Who has a job that is. Yes.

[Max Chafkin]

Now, do you think private equity guys, when they're in a relationship, bring private equity tactics to do they try to optimize. I would just be cautious.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah. To be like, you know, I feel like the Netflix time we have and the farmer's market are low impact. I think it's just cause they have a lot of money.

[Max Chafkin]

Your underrated story.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay, so you're gonna love this. I'm very excited to unveil this to you. But after we were speaking with Ashley, I got very curious because we are also thinking about the music for this show. For everybody's business, of course. Yeah. And we've been talking about coming up with some new music, maybe like, some, like, theme music. And this is obviously a big discussion, Stacey. And I was like, you know, if there are these music tools that I could use to help us along in this discussion and possibly even come up with a perfect theme song for our show, shouldn't I just do it?

[Max Chafkin]

Well, yeah. And that would be a worthy thing to do because, you know, we've been talking about these tools. I think it would be helpful journalistically, journalistically, to hear some of these. Some of these songs and kind of get a more of a sense of the process so we can offer commentary on it.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

So, yeah, so I opened Suno, and basically you just give a little summary about what kind of song you wanted to create. That's it. I said we need a theme song for our podcast, Everybody's Business. Max Chaffkin, Stacey Vanek Smith Producer, Jasmine GT Green it is a show about business. There are underrated stories. And I said, please do this in the. In the style of a 1990s sitcom theme show, because I thought that'd be kind of fun. Okay, here it is, Max. All right, settle in.

[Max Chafkin]

She's got the lead. Max is on the case.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Okay.

[Max Chafkin]

I have a couple questions.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah.

[Max Chafkin]

How much information did, like, did you. You gave it our names? What is our names?

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Bloomberg Business Week, Everybody's business. I didn't even say what the podcast was about. I just said it's everybody's business. From Bloomberg Business Week. Max Chavkin, Stacey Bank SMITH Producer, Jasmine J.T. green. That was all.

[Max Chafkin]

I mean, I feel like it gives you an idea of how this, how it works and why it's fun. I also don't want that to be our theme song. Just for the record.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Now, is this my conviction opinion? No. No. Agreed. But it is, like, kind of extraordinary. It came up with that. It was like literally five seconds, like it cost nothing. And it took three seconds and I was like, oh, I would love to

[Max Chafkin]

hear from folks listening whether if you're a musician, you have thoughts on this. If you're not a musician, you're sort of mess around with these tools. Let us know. Everybody'[e-mail] everybody with an S at Bloomberg.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

And if you want to write a theme song for us.

[Max Chafkin]

Oh, my God, don't send us. AI Slo.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Please send us. I. I'm. I'm all for it.

[Max Chafkin]

Send us your prompts.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

You can send it to me. Everybody's at Bloomberg. Dynast subject line.

[Max Chafkin]

Great song for Stacey.

[Stacey Vanek Smith]

Yeah, just like, don't look at this, Max. If for your mental health.

[Max Chafkin]

Thank you. We'll see you next week. This show is Produced by Jasmine J.T. green and Stacy Wong. Magnus Henriksen is our supervising producer. Sam Rogich handles engineering and Dave Purcell fact checks. Special thanks to Jeff Muskus, Julia Rubin and Maria Ling. Amy Keen is our executive producer. And welcome. Cheryl Brumley, the new head of Bloomberg Podcast.

[Josh Brustein]

Welcome Cheryl.

[Max Chafkin]

If you have a minute, please rate and review the show. It'll mean a lot to us. And if you have a story that should be our business, email us@everybody'sloomberg.net that's everybody with an slooombird.net thank you for listening and we will see you next week. When you're running a business, the best days are the ones where priorities stay on track. For midsize and large companies, risk can affect multiple parts of the organization at once, from property and liability to cyber and regulatory challenges. At that level, managing risk becomes an ongoing discipline. At the Hartford, the focus is on helping businesses manage risk before it turns into something more disruptive. And when losses do happen, that work is paired with insurance coverage shaped by years of underwriting, risk engineering and claims experience. Learn [e-mail] Riskmitigation policies provided by Hartford Fire Insurance Company and its property and casualty affiliate, Hartford, Connecticut.

[Josh Brustein]

Honey, Felipe sent another photo from Argentina. How?

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With T Mobile, of course.

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Mira, he's video calling us.

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[Max Chafkin]

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We did.

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They're so pretty.

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Here to share every moment with T Mobile. Enjoy Data roaming at no extra charge in 21 Latin American countries. Switch now on the TLife app or t mobile.com connectati qualifying plan required not for extended international use. You must reset in the US and primary usage must occur in our network. Network visit t mobile.com this is Tony Ayo from the Real Report with Tony Ayo and Uncle Murder. You ever notice how everything keeps going up? Rent, streaming, even extra Sosa at your favorite Burrito Spot. But with Boost Mobile, you don't have to play the Willis Go up soon game. Boost Mobile offers an unlimited talk, text and data plan at a price that'll never go up. It's the same price you'll pay for life. Switch now for unlimited wireless at a price that'll never go up. Only at boost mobile. After 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.