The Year, According to Tracy Alloway, Felix Salmon, and Robert Smith

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Year, According to Tracy Alloway, Felix Salmon, and Robert Smith"

Podcast: Everybody's Business (Bloomberg & iHeartPodcasts)
Episode Date: December 26, 2025
Hosts: Max Chafkin & Stacey Vanek Smith
Guests: Tracy Alloway (Bloomberg/Host of Odd Lots), Felix Salmon (Slate Money), Robert Smith (Planet Money, Pushkin Business History)

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Main Theme and Purpose

This special year-in-review episode assembles "the Legends of Pod"—three acclaimed business and economic journalists—to reflect on the defining business, economic, and political moments of 2025. The roundtable explores the past year's biggest numbers, most notable events, and weirdest controversies, blending sharp analysis with behind-the-scenes context and plenty of humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Each Legend's "Number of the Year"

(03:06–13:45)

• Tracy Alloway – 40%
  40% of 2025 US GDP growth is attributed to AI investment, surpassing even consumer spending growth as a driver.
  • “Half the US economy is now driven by AI capital spending. It's a bigger driver of the US Economy now than consumer spending growth, which is crazy.” (03:06–03:40)
• Felix Salmon – $115 Million
  The astronomical legal bill run up in the Charlie Javice vs. J.P. Morgan fintech fraud saga—mostly paid by J.P. Morgan due to legal insurance loopholes and aggressive lawyering.
  • “She got JP Morgan to pay all of her legal bills... $2,100 an hour... $115 million of legal bills, which they then presented to JP Morgan and said, you have to pay this.” (05:12–06:18)
• Robert Smith – 2.24
  The global total fertility rate: averaging barely above the replacement rate, signaling that worldwide population may soon start to decline for the first time.
  • “It does appear that during my lifetime... the globe will stop growing in population and will begin to decline.” (08:05)

2. Musk, Memes & Metrics

(11:00–16:00)

• Musk-Adjacent Numbers
  Discussion of dubious financial “wins” claimed by Musk and the "Doge" phenomenon (“$214 billion saved”), the crossover of Silicon Valley design into government, and the "woke fonts" meme (Calibri vs. Times New Roman as a political flashpoint).
  • “The Airbnb guy is like the chief design officer for the US government... the websites look like 2010 startup designs.” (12:04–12:32)

3. Stories of the Year by Category

(17:00–43:00)

• Flub of the Year: Trump’s "Liberation Day" Tariff Rollout

• Clumsy launch of broad, chaotic tariffs causing global market disruptions—complete with a poster of tariffs on penguin-inhabited islands.
  • “Giant poster... American industry was reborn… And it just did not have to be that way. Yet it was.” (17:43–18:35)
  • “My favorite moment... tariffs imposed on uninhabited islands—inhabited only by penguins and seals.” (19:08–19:13)

• Person of the Year: Shohei Ohtani (and Trump, grudgingly)

• Max nominates the transcendent baseball player for his “freaking cool” dual-role performances, a rare positive story amid the divisiveness.
  • “He pitched in a game and hit home runs. Even Babe Ruth... did not do that. It's really freaking cool.” (23:03–23:09)

• Feud of the Year: Scott Besant vs Maersk (Michael Musk) in the White House

• A near-physical altercation over IRS nominations, emblematic of the reality-TV governance style in the current administration.
  • “A famous shouting match that almost became a fist fight in the White House.” (23:46–23:57)

• Meme of the Year: Trump/Powell Hardhat Tour Snap

• Viral photo of Trump and Fed Chair Jerome Powell at a construction tour, Trump inventing cost overruns, Powell confused and frowning.
  • “Poor Jay Powell, who actually takes numbers seriously, looks confused, disturbed... has a very pronounced frown.” (27:27–28:15)

• CEO Social Media Post of the Year (Non-Ackman): Alex Karp’s "Neurodivergent Fellowship"

• Palantir CEO's awkward post-DealBook-conference initiative—supposedly celebrating neurodiversity with no clear criteria—sparks confusion and ridicule.

• CEO Social Media Post of the Year (Ackman division): "May I Meet You?"

• Ackman’s widely-mocked/imitated dating approach tweet.
  • “He claimed his technique for picking up women is to approach them and say, ‘May I meet you?’ And he claimed to never have received a no.” (41:03–41:15)

• Product of the Year: Labubu (Chinese Toy Craze)

• The first non-American toy phenomenon to dominate the US market, compared to Beanie Babies, but driven by Chinese cultural exports.
  • “It's the first time I can remember America falling for a huge sort of toy craze that wasn't American and where [we’re] not the main character.” (36:37–36:47)

• TikTok’s Ghost Ban

• Despite being banned in the US, TikTok continues to thrive, with legal and enforcement absurdities on display.
  • “The White House had to beg Apple to put it back. And Apple was like, but there’s a law against it… And eventually they relented.” (37:48–38:15)

4. "Who is Trump Talking About?" Game Show

(45:56–57:05)

A lightning round where panelists guess which public figure Trump is referencing, ranging from world leaders (Japan’s Prime Minister, Cristiano Ronaldo, Mark Carney), US officials (Jerome Powell, Scott Besant, Stephen Miller) to classic rock bands (“KISS”). This segment showcases the surreal and reality-TV-like flavor of the year in Washington, as well as Trump’s unique rhetorical flourishes.

• Memorable moment:
  “I call them the Bobsy twins. They are the most different human beings I've ever met... like by about 200 yards.” (50:05–51:06)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI and Markets:

  • "Half the US economy is now driven by AI capital spending. It's a bigger driver... than consumer spending growth." — Tracy Alloway (03:37)

• On the $115 Million Legal Bill:

  • “She got JP Morgan to pay all of her legal bills... $2,100 an hour... $115 million... after losing even more than that on buying her company in the first place.” — Felix Salmon (05:12–06:18)
  • “It’s kind of a tip, which, as we know, is gonna be tax free.” — Robert Smith (06:23)

• On Fertility and Demographics:

  • “We don’t have an economics profession that has ever dealt with shrinking population globally.” — Robert Smith (09:00)
  • “Elon has the solution to this, which is pay every woman who has a baby $30 million…” — Felix Salmon (09:11)

• On Trump's "Liberation Day":

  • “It did not have to be that way. And yet it was... an enormous amount of chaos for businesses that is ongoing.” — Tracy Alloway (18:15–18:35)
  • “My favorite moment: tariffs on uninhabited islands—included for no reason!” — Robert Smith (19:08)

• On Billionaires' Behavior:

  • “People become very, very weird after they become billionaires.” — Felix Salmon (32:08)
  • “Billionaires used to be boring... now there are incentives to be as weird as possible.” — Robert Smith (33:10–33:28)

• On Labubu Phenomenon:

  • “America’s fallen for a huge sort of toy craze that wasn’t American and we’re not the main character at all.” — Felix Salmon (36:37–36:47)

• On the Ackman "May I Meet You?" Tweet:

  • “He claimed to never have received a no. People who tried to adopt this technique… had less success, let’s put it that way.” — Tracy Alloway (41:03–41:17)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:06–13:45] — Panelists' Numbers of the Year
• [17:00–43:00] — Category Awards: Flub, Person, Feud, Meme, Social Post, Product
• [45:56–57:05] — "Who is Trump Talking About?" guessing game
• Passim — Notable sidebars on social media, billionaires' eccentricities, and pop culture business moments

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Tone and Style

The episode is fast-paced, witty, and blends insight with satirical asides. The hosts and guests riff off each other’s experience and pop culture touchstones to make sense of a year where economic headlines often bordered on the surreal. The chemistry is high, humor is omnipresent, and even the grave moments (like global depopulation or chaotic government rollouts) are dissected with sharp, knowing wit.

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Takeaways

• AI’s dominance: Artificial Intelligence investment shapes nearly half of new US economic growth, eclipsing even consumer spending.
• Legal excess: Corporate legal battles and eccentric CEO antics are bigger and more public than ever.
• Geopolitics & culture: The US economy and cultural landscape reel from both policy shocks (Trump tariffs, TikTok ban) and surprising imports (Labubu, TikTok, sports heroes like Ohtani).
• Surreality of 2025 politics: Reality TV-style drama (from White House feuds to meme-able moments) defines the public business conversation.
• Billionaires as performance artists: The ultra-wealthy are now public performers, using Twitter (now X), memes, and manufactured controversy to command attention.

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Conclusion

This whirlwind year-end review distills 2025’s wild blend of tech revolution, government chaos, changing demographics, and the increasingly performative nature of power—both in business and politics. For listeners who missed it, this episode provides a sharp, insightful, and very entertaining map of what mattered (and what was simply too weird to ignore) in the year’s business news.

Transcript

[A]

When it comes to tech investing, AI has sucked most of the oxygen from the room. In that rush, some promising biotech companies have been left behind. But could the next big run come from the lab, not the data center? Learn more later in the podcast.

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[C]

Bloomberg Audio Studios Podcasts Radio News.

[D]

This is everybody's business from Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Stacey Vanek Smith.

[C]

And I'm Max Chavkin.

[D]

And Max, 2025 is coming to a close. It has been quite a year, honestly, very hard to process all of it.

[C]

But, you know, here we are. This is my favorite time of the year because we get to break the format, we get to do different things on the show as we process.

[D]

Yes. And you know, we're looking out over this year and we have to ask ourselves, like, what are the big themes that have emerged in the economy for 2025?

[C]

Well, Stacey, you and I knew that we had to.

[D]

It's too big for us, too big.

[C]

For two people, or even too big for Bloomberg. As big as Bloomberg is, we needed an elite team that would cross many newsrooms and many genres of the greatest.

[D]

Podcasters we know, a kind of bat signal across the economic podcasting world. We like to think of it as the Legends of pod.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

And here they are. We have Tracy Alloway, Seer of Markets, Keeper of the vix, and host of Odd Lots.

[A]

Keeper of the vix. That's a new one. Thank you.

[E]

If Tracy goes on holiday, there is no vix.

[C]

That voice you hear is Felix Salmon, economic sense maker, the king of context, the host of Slate Money and our colleague contributor to Bloomberg Weekend.

[E]

I'm Bloomberg Ideas and Culture. It's very exciting.

[D]

And last but definitely not least, the great Robert Smith, economic story seeker, able to break down the economy in a single minute, contributing host for Planet Money and of Pushkin's new business history podcast.

[F]

I'm the only one with the visitor's badge here. I'm very excited.

[D]

Now we have assembled you all to talk about the year that was 2025. And we thought we would do it by looking across a bunch of different categories and different parts of the economy. But before we start, because we all deal with numbers A lot. Every day. We thought we would have you all pick a number. One number that you thought summed up or distilled some part of the 2025 economy. Tracy Alloway, keeper of the Vix, let's start with you. Number the year.

[A]

Okay. Well, I was kind of torn between selecting a number that was like a little bit more unknown versus one of the big giant market cap numbers of one of the big tech stocks that just keeps going up and up and up. But in the end, I. With the first one, My number is 40%. Okay. It is the amount of 2025 U.S. gDP growth that is estimated to be generated by AI investment. So nearly half the U.S. economy is now driven by AI capital spending.

[E]

Well, half the Delta growth. Yeah.

[A]

No, no, no. But it's actually. Wait, wait. But it's a bigger driver of the US Economy now than consumer spending growth, which is crazy.

[E]

But consumer spending is still like 20 times bigger than AI.

[A]

I'm not sure anymore, honestly.

[E]

Yeah, no, I mean, if you're looking at what is one of the great things about capitalism is that people don't care about large numbers. They only care about growing numbers. And so if you care about what is going to make the US Economy even bigger than it is already.

[F]

Yeah, I think that is true. And the US economy has grown, what, on average, around 3% a year, which is amazing. Right? 3% adds up to this enormous success that the United States has had. And so the components of that growth of the 3% is incredibly important because it's different every year. What is driving the growth of the US Economy? So in that sense, like, in terms of what's driving the growth. Yeah, it's been an AI year.

[C]

Are we going to spend the whole time talking about AI? Because I feel like we could.

[D]

At least 40% of our time, I think is safe to say. Felix Salmon, what is your number?

[E]

My number is $115 million. Someone.

[C]

Is this like an art? Is it like a painting or something?

[E]

The Banana and Auction there was a painting that sold for $238 million. So roughly half a Gustave Klimt.

[A]

Is that your annual wardrobe budget?

[E]

Aw, that's me.

[F]

I was gonna think an apartment. We can see from here.

[E]

It is none of those. It is the legal bill that Charlie Javice managed to run up in her legal fight against J.P. morgan. Well, actually, technically in her legal fight against the US Attorneys who are prosecuting her criminally for doing all manner of criminal things when she sold her company to J.P. morgan. But because J.P. morgan had, like, Directors and officers Insurance, and she was a director of an officer or something. She got JP Morgan to pay all of her legal bills. She went to Alex Spiro, who is a friend of the part, I'm sure.

[C]

Who is Elon Musk's lawyer.

[E]

Elon Musk's lawyer and various other, you know, people like that. And he managed to bill out $2,100 an hour and run up $152,100 an hour. Ran up $115 million of legal bills, which they then presented to JP Morgan and said, you have to pay this after losing, you know, even more than that on buying her company in the first place. Now they have to pay the legal bills to send her to jail. It's amazing story.

[D]

Wait, I'm sorry. I'm still stuck on $2,100 an hour. I just feel like I'm in the wrong.

[F]

It's $100 added to it. It's kind of a tip. It's a tip which, as we know, is gonna be tax free.

[C]

Wait, what did she do? Honestly, I have trouble keeping straight the fraudulent fintech companies from the not fraudulent ones.

[D]

That's fair.

[C]

Some kind of fintech thing. Right? Felix?

[E]

This company that claimed to have millions of customers of people with student loans and that she would help them optimize and refinance and do all of the. And find the good deals and the government forgiveness and all the rest of it that you can. That you're looking for when you have student loans. She did not have the 4 million customers that she promised J.P. morgan. She had. She had like 12. And so, yeah, that was the end of that.

[C]

It was a breakout year for Alex spiral.

[A]

He did.

[C]

He spread his. He's like, no longer even the Elon guy, he's got a whole.

[D]

He's like, I'm gonna charge what I'm worth after listening to, like motivational tapes in the car. He was like, you know what? I'm Gonna make it $2,100. Robert Smith number of the year.

[F]

My number is 2.24. It's gonna be impossible to guess. But think global and think it involves sex.

[D]

Oh, my gosh, Robert. First of all, family show.

[E]

Is this the total fertility rate? In some country, it is the total.

[F]

Fertility rate of the planet.

[E]

Of the planet.

[F]

2.24, meaning the average woman has 2.24 kids. It is barely above the replacement level, which is 2.1. It's been going down for decades.

[E]

Or one hundredth of Alex Spiro's hourly rate.

[F]

Exactly right. That is how they measure it.

[D]

I appreciate that.

[C]

I'm gonna.

[D]

Yes.

[F]

And so it does appear that during my lifetime, may it be long, the globe will stop growing in population and will begin to decline.

[E]

I believe that this was also the year in which more than half of the planet lives in a country with a TFR of less than 2.1.

[F]

Absolutely.

[D]

Total fertility rate.

[E]

Because China now has a total fertility rate of 1 less than 2.1. And once China flips, then you have more than half the planet.

[A]

Do you remember in the 90s, we were always told that overpopulation was the problem? And now we have Elon Musk obviously saying that we have to have babies to save capitalism.

[D]

It's a big about face. There was also, like, the Malthusian theory, member of, like, we can't run out of food. Like, the population will self. Correct. I can't really get out of that mindset and into the mindset of, like, now we've gotta make more people.

[F]

But you have to start thinking, like, we don't have an economics profession that has ever dealt with shrinking population globally. I mean, Japan, yeah, for one country, right.

[E]

But for Korea's the really tough one. Oh, but no, I think that Elon has the solution to this, which is pay every woman who has a baby $30 million, and then that will be enough of incentive to get people to have more babies.

[D]

I don't know if I can quite get behind that method.

[E]

Elon, of course, only does it for women who have his baby, but in principle, it scales.

[C]

I'm kind of depressed about this.

[E]

Robert, One of the most interesting debates in the world right now is the one about is it good for the planet to have babies or to not have babies? Because for the past 20 years or so, everyone has been told that the carbon footprint of having a baby is absolutely enormous, Especially once you consider the carbon footprint of, like, the babies that they will wind up having and so on and so forth, and that the best thing you can have to save the planet, the best thing you can do to save the planet is to have few or even no babies. And now, for the first time, people are coming out with, actually, no, we need to have children, Otherwise we won't have the people who are going to be necessary to solve all of these problems.

[F]

It will rapidly shrink, too. You've heard of sort of geometric growth on the way up. We're not prepared for geometric growth on the way down. Like, the human population will rapidly shrink. And then we're gonna have to figure out, like, is it okay If a GDP goes negative every year, it would.

[A]

Be nice if the population shrunk and we saw wage growth go up with it like we did.

[E]

Do you remember the Black Deaths?

[A]

Not personally. The Black Death, yeah.

[F]

Good old days. Good old days.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But there was a big population decline and the value of human labor went up. I suspect that won't happen this time though.

[F]

Well, housing will be very cheap. Like that's another. Another good thing, right?

[C]

I'm glad we've been talking about Elon Musk because my number, and this is maybe a hint just generally is Musk adjacent.

[D]

Okay. Musk adjacent.

[E]

Go.

[D]

What is Your number?

[C]

Okay. 214 billion. Anyone?

[A]

His bonus or his salary?

[C]

I. Well.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[C]

Elon would never. He doesn't get out of bed for less than that monthly bonus. It is. Anyone, any other guesses the value of.

[E]

His stake in SpaceX?

[A]

David?

[D]

Mama, this is.

[C]

I should have said this is a dubious number. I don't know if that helps. This is the claimed savings by Doge. The number from the Doge wall of.

[E]

A made up number.

[F]

According to Doge.

[C]

It's. There is evidence self. It's on the website. Remember Elon Musk said initially that they were going to save $2 trillion. That was kind of. I think that was at a rally in Madison Square Garden that I went to only like a year ago. And then it was kind of knocked down to a billion dollars. And here we are, 214 billion.

[E]

I think there is Big Bull still maintaining that website. Is there still. Is it still being updated?

[C]

Oh, yes.

[A]

What happened to him?

[C]

Okay, my understanding on Big Balls. We'll have to check this after this. If we finish recording. I believe Big Balls is back in the Trump administration, but I don't think he's on the. I don't think he's on website duty. The funniest thing on this to me anyway, is that the Airbnb guy is like the chief design officer for the U.S. government. And now there are a couple of websites like you're starting to see his work and they are like, they look like 2010 startup designs.

[E]

Go to trumpcard.gov and it really does look like Airbnb.

[A]

Yeah, it looks like you need to put sunglasses on for all the gold.

[C]

Like rounded corners and like the Helvetica font. It's like, it's so, so strange. Especially if you live through that time which, where. Which was so closely identified with Obama. And the Airbnb guys were like, you.

[E]

Know, you know, what has rounded corners and is woke is Calibri.

[D]

That's the new font.

[E]

No? So that's the old font. The State Department under Biden switched from Times New Roman to Calibri on the grounds that it's easier to read for people who find it hard to read words. And then Marco Rubio has switched back to Times New Roman, saying that means you are being woke and flew Calibri under the bus, calling it a woke font.

[A]

Times New Roman. You know how much men think about Times New Roman.

[E]

Every, like, multiple times a day?

[D]

That's the best spot.

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[D]

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[D]

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[D]

All right, Legends of Pod. Those are our numbers of the year. But now we have some categories. Stories of the year. You all sent me your stories and I pulled a few from each of you. Some of you have an interesting mind meld happening, which was quite interesting.

[F]

Not just our obsession with fertility.

[D]

Not just your obsession with fertility.

[G]

Exactly.

[E]

Speak for yourself, brother.

[F]

You're the one that chimed in with all the facts.

[D]

All right, all right. Yes, Fonts and fertility. So the first category was Flub of the year. And for this one, Tracy, I'm going to let you go first. And then Robert and Tracy, you had kind of a mind meld here.

[A]

I mean, this is the obvious one, right? So it's the Liberation Day rollout of the Trump administration's tariffs because giant poster.

[H]

My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day waiting for a long time. April 2, 2025 will forever be remembered as the day American industry was reborn, the day America's destiny was reclaimed, and the day that we began to make America wealthy again.

[A]

Yeah, it just. It did not have to be that way. And yet it was. And even though, you know, a lot of the market reaction has since recovered, it was still an enormous amount of chaos. And it's still an enormous amount of chaos for businesses that is ongoing. And again, it just did not have to be like that.

[E]

But it was such an amazing buying opportunity for the stock market.

[A]

Sure, sure.

[F]

But it's hard to believe, you know, cause he hires the best people, but like his staff completely failed him. This is the biggest economic moment he's gonna have. One that transformed the world and failed.

[D]

Him like formula wise.

[E]

Well, the formula was the thing until.

[F]

He got the formula from AI Right. And then they put on there. Mine was more specific about that chart. The tariffs imposed on the uninhabited islands, the herd and McDonald Islands inhabited only by penguins and seals.

[A]

Gotta get more penguins.

[F]

Just saying we haven' gotten a lot of money from that island since we imposed 10% tariffs.

[D]

That was my favorite moment. Of Liberation Day. I found it terrifying when I was watching that poster being unveiled, I was like, this is the end of the economy. I was so worried. I had done a lot of reporting on, like, Argentina and, like, big tariffs being imposed suddenly by countries. I was so worried. The only thing that helped me sleep at night was the penguin.

[E]

So I have the exact opposite terror, right? I have this terror that we have right now in this country. Tariffs at levels that have not been seen since, like the 1930s or earlier. They have transformed global trade. They have rewired the entire global economy. And somehow, because, you know, stonks are doing great, like there isn't that panic anymore. And no one is losing sleep over this. And we have managed to normalize it. And if we were still in this sort of post Liberation Day panic zone, that would feel more sensible to me.

[A]

Well, I'm still losing sleep if it.

[C]

Makes me feel better.

[A]

And also, just on a personal note, I bought something from Holland a few months ago, actually many months ago now, and I'm still waiting for it to be shipped because they can't figure out the US tariff system. That was back in September, I think.

[F]

Is it a stroopwafel?

[A]

It is not.

[E]

Is it a windmill?

[A]

I'm not gonna tell you.

[F]

It's a tulip bulb and you pay too much.

[C]

So it was definitely, like, unquestionably a political screw up. I think, like, basically Trump's presidency has gone downhill, I think, pretty much since that moment. Are we a hundred percent sure it was an economic screw up? Like, to your point, Felix, nothing bad has really happened.

[E]

A lot of bad things have happened. And to Tracey's point, they have been kind of overshadowed by AI. And if it wasn't for the AI, things would look a lot worse. And a lot of the bad things will continue to happen. It will continue to get worse in the future unless the Supreme Court decides that the whole thing is illegal.

[F]

Like, there's still half the thing, right?

[C]

We'll still have a bunch of tariffs. Even if they rule that Liberation Day is illegal.

[F]

It'll add to the chaos, which is.

[A]

Another failure of the rollout. Right? Is we don't know if these are legal or not. And at some point, maybe half of them are gonna get rolled back.

[F]

And the numbers keep changing.

[A]

So many exceptions.

[D]

Yeah, that's the thing. The numbers keep changing hundreds of times. They've changed. There have been so many exceptions. I think there have been estimates that as much as a third of what we import is like, exception from the tariffs. So I'M not sure if the impact is as devastating.

[E]

Look at Canada. Canada's my favorite one, which is like the entire country of Canada is up in arms over these tariffs. Basically the entire country of Canada has just boycotted traveling to the United States. And they have this tiny little asterisk underneath the massive tariffs saying unless it's covered by USMCA, which is 90 plus percent of all of the trade between the US and Canada. And you're like, yeah, it's all exceptions. Everything is exceptions.

[A]

The big irony here is if you think about the Trump administration, they say they hate red tape and bureaucracy, right? Think of how many man hours are being spent now pouring over customs forms. I can't imagine.

[F]

But luckily, luckily we all have our jobs at the Apple iPhone factory down.

[C]

The road where we all work our.

[F]

Shifts making American made iPhones fingers dexterous.

[D]

So we can do the little screws.

[F]

Manufacturing's back.

[D]

This feels like a good moment to segue to our person of the year. Max, your answer was by far, was fascinating to me. I want you to explain it.

[F]

Well, I just.

[D]

Who's your person of the Year?

[C]

I just feel like obviously the person of the year, like objectively is probably Donald Trump for all the reasons we're talking about. I picked Shohei Ohtani, who is arguably, or I would argue the greatest baseball player of all time. Greater than Babe Ruth. He put together an amazing performance in the World Series.

[A]

There.

[H]

Hit in the air to right field.

[C]

Back it goes.

[D]

It is gone.

[C]

Sky scraping home run from SH Otani. We are living through a wonderful, wonderful baseball moment. Shohei Otani pitched in a game and hit home runs. And even Babe Ruth, the greatest baseball player of all time, did not do that. It's really freaking cool. The World Baseball Classic, by the way, coming in March. Good times as well.

[D]

Mark your calendars.

[C]

Mark your calendars.

[F]

Were we allowed to pick happy news? Like, that's way too. That's way too positive for this year.

[D]

Okay, now our feud of the year, Felix Feud of the year. You and Robert had kind of an interesting mind melt here, but fire away.

[E]

So my. Yeah, I went for Besant versus Maersk, which was a famous shouting match that almost became a fist fight in the White House.

[F]

Should we show them? It was chest to chest.

[C]

Right?

[F]

They were shoving. It was maybe a hockey chest.

[D]

Chest to chest. They were doing the like.

[E]

Yeah, they were, yeah, supposedly like alpha males trying to alpha male each other.

[D]

Silverback war.

[E]

Totally. And they're in the white. They're like within, like you could hear them screaming at each other from the.

[F]

Oval Office, like an ambassador to Italy or something like that, had overheard this whole thing and allegedly Besant called Michael Musk a total fraud.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

He seems so relaxed.

[C]

I was gonna say, like he contains multitudes because his vibe is not the, like, I'm gonna throw it, I'm gonna take a swing.

[A]

Well, that was when he got the eye injury as well. Right. That was like, supposedly from that fight.

[C]

Well, no way. I mean, Musk said it was his kid, so.

[D]

Right.

[C]

But we all know.

[E]

Boom.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

No, I was just horsing around with the Lex and I said, go ahead, punch me in the face. And he did. Turns out even a five year old punching you in the face actually does.

[H]

That was ex. That did. X could do it.

[E]

But Bessant, you know, for people who knew him over the past couple of decades, did have this incredibly physically aggressive side to him. And he, you know, in good old hedge fund manager style, he goes very, very hard when he goes. And this was like, to be clear, a fight over who should get to nominate the head of the irs. It does not sound like a thing to really scream at people.

[D]

That's literally what the fight was about.

[C]

Yeah. One of the reasons I'm dubious this actually happened is because. Well, I just think that one of the ways you get Trump's attention is by performing, like, performing aggression and like being a part of. Of this, like, reality television show. And I think whether or not Besant really shoved Musk or whacked him or whatever, it was a very savvy move because it's a move that, like.

[D]

Was it?

[C]

Yeah, within. Because within Trump world, like, this is.

[D]

A way we would all get fired if we did this in our workplaces.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

But if your boss is as, you know, as different as Donald Trump, you know, remember there was this power struggle going on in the. It's easy to forget that, like, Elon Musk was for like a very short amount of time, like, the most powerful person in the Trump administration.

[E]

I know the entire development world really, really wishes that Marco Rubio had done this to Musk over the USAID cuts.

[F]

Right. Yeah.

[E]

That, like, all you needed to do, it turns out, was shout at him very loudly in the White House and then that would get him to back off and we could have saved, you know, half a million lives. But apparently Rubio hadn't worked that out at that point. And now, you know, all of these children are dying.

[A]

Americans who go to France know that talking louder always works.

[G]

That's true.

[D]

They're just pretending not to understand. Meme of the year, Robert.

[F]

So my meme of the year, and I laugh every time I see it, is a still from when President Trump toured the Fed construction.

[A]

That's a good one.

[F]

And there he is wearing a hard hat. Jay Powell is also wearing a hard hat, you know, chair of the Fed. And they're walking along and Trump just starts making up some numbers about cost overruns.

[H]

It looks like it's about 3.1 billion. Went up a little bit or a lot. So the 2.7 is now 3.1.

[E]

I'm not aware of that.

[H]

Yeah, it just came out.

[E]

I haven't heard that from anybody at the Fed.

[F]

And poor Jay Powell, who actually takes numbers seriously, looks confused, disturbed. He picks up a piece of paper and has a. Like, what we should say.

[D]

It was the sort of the restoration of the building, the renovation.

[E]

This was Jay Powell's version of the famous Jonathan Swan reactions to Donald Trump during his hbo. Actually, it was an HBO interview where he was just looking at Trump going, what?

[D]

That is incredible.

[E]

You've been talking about.

[F]

Yeah, I have the numbers in front of me.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

[F]

And so, no, it gets. It pops up all the time. How would appreciate this where it's just like, with lines like, oh, you know, me looking at the credit card bill after my kids took the credit cards out or something like that. It's like, oh, I know. He had a very.

[D]

He had a very pronounced frown.

[G]

Right?

[D]

Because, like, Trump handed him the bill and he just had a very.

[A]

He was very frustrated.

[E]

You just spent $5 billion on your new building. And he's like, no, I didn't.

[D]

And he was like, nope, you've added in a different building.

[A]

Nope.

[C]

Yeah, I know we are going to play a game later. And what I wanted to do, but I'm not going to do, was have clips of Trump talking about building renovations. And we would have to guess whether it was from whether the quote was from an HGTV episode or a. I.

[A]

Would be so good at that. I'm just saying.

[D]

Or a UN Speech.

[C]

He talks about building materials and buildings so often. Gold, gold accent walls, so many marble. Memorable.

[E]

But Stacey, you're everywhere. Like the fact that he spends half of his address to the General assembly of the UN to the world, saying, like, I bid on renovating this building. They declined my bid. If I'd done it, it would have been marble. In fact, look at these.

[C]

Look at these cheap floors.

[E]

Look at these cheap floors.

[D]

He actually said, look at these cheap floors, which.

[E]

And also by the way, I just want to say for the record, since I'm at Bloomberg and everything we say here is true, the UN Building is the most beautiful building in New York. I love it so much.

[D]

It is a beautiful building. Yes.

[E]

Very sleepy. I am happy that Donald Trump did not get his paws on it.

[D]

All right, CEO Tweet of the year, slash social media post of the year. Tracy Alloway. This is you.

[C]

Wait, is this the Ackman division or the non Ackman division?

[D]

Non Ackman division.

[A]

This one was tough because of Ackman, but I went with a non ackman one. And there's a little bit of recency bias in here as well, but it is Palantir CEO Alex Karp announcing the neurodivergent fellowship after his appearance at the DealBook conference, where he couldn't quite sit still and made a lot of erratic hand movements. And the funniest thing about the fellowship is they've. They put up the application form, and I took a look at it, and there's no, like, requirements listed at all. So I don't know if they're measuring people on the basis of, like, how good they perform or how neurodivergent they actually are.

[C]

I'm just so confused because I thought Alix Karp was really against diversity, equity and inclusion and various.

[A]

He says this one's important and, you.

[C]

Know, emphasizing differences and so on. Yeah, it seems strange. I've also seen a lot of clips of him where he isn't moving around that erratically, which is another thing that I don't know. He's clearly doing something right, though, because the stock is. Well, not lately, but it's.

[E]

The stock is doing well.

[D]

Robert, you also had a very funny tweet I wanted you to talk about.

[F]

Oh, well. So I do not follow a lot of CEOs on Twitter because, thank God my job does not require it. But I did see one, because I see this guy's tweets all the time. Brian Johnson, former FinTech CEO and life extension guru.

[D]

He's the one who's, like, always injecting the blood of.

[C]

He talks about his nighttime.

[E]

He has trademarked the phrase never die.

[F]

And he stands, like, shirtless next to his son and being like, you can't tell the difference. I'm like, I can tell the difference. So I'm kind of. I'm, like, cringy and concerned about him all the time. But.

[D]

But he's your Roman Empire.

[F]

But in the last few weeks, he sent. He sent a tweet and it started out, guys, I finally have a girlfriend. And he says, like, it's basically a co worker of his. And it's like, she fits me like a puzzle piece. And it was a very long love letter to her. And I was actually kind of moved because I'm like, maybe now you can live a normal life. Like. Like, it seems like you were searching for something in all of this weird supplements and nighttime emissions, but, like, you can finally just, like, go on a date and have a picnic and, like, watch Netflix together.

[A]

Or maybe in 10 years, he's gonna start preserving his girlfriend in, like, ISIS. Yeah.

[D]

Kind of a bride of Frankenstein.

[A]

You never know.

[E]

Brian Johnson is definitely emblematic. And Alex Karp is, as well, of the way in which people become very, very weird after they become billionaires.

[D]

That's true. It doesn't seem to be good for people.

[E]

Yeah, I would. I would say don't do it.

[C]

I think it's getting more pronounced, too.

[D]

Like, I don't think there's a danger of me becoming a billionaire. Although, I don't know.

[C]

But it's like the. There are greater incentives also to be weird. Like I was saying, like, Alex Karp has gotten more publicly weird over the last couple of years, and with the whole, like, meme stock thing or whatever. And.

[E]

Well, I mean, acquaintance is another good example. And his investors are.

[F]

How.

[E]

Well, I mean, Tracy, you're the person to ask. How do Bill Ackman's investors think of Bill Ackman these days?

[A]

I. I'm gonna go with no comment. Right.

[C]

Different. Different investor community. Right. I mean, like, are there a lot of retail investors, like Robinhood types putting money into Ackman?

[E]

Well, they don't really have a vehicle yet.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, they definitely follow what he says. So, like, the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac move, people were really interested in that.

[F]

But billionaires used to be boring. I mean, or at least, like, the whole idea was, if you were Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you didn't have to perform for the world. Like, you were super rich and running successful companies.

[E]

That was enough.

[F]

Your plate was full, and people really looked up to you and admired you. And now I don't know what this mix is.

[A]

This is important, actually. This is my thesis. Okay. There used to be natural limits on capitalism, either in the form of higher taxes or in terms of religion. Right. It was good to give to charity. You didn't want to become a billionaire because you wanted to give away at least some of your wealth. And now with prosperity gospel and all of that, and Just the general, like, cultural shift. You want to be as rich as possible, and you just keep going, and no one can tell you what to do.

[E]

Live as possible. Like when.

[D]

Live as long as possible.

[E]

When Warren Buffett wound up having some very odd relationship between his secretary and his wife and all the rest of it, it was kept very quiet, and he never talked about it. When Alex Karp has a weird relationship, he's like. He comes out in public and says, I'm geographically monogamous.

[D]

All right. Product of the year. Felix Salmon.

[E]

Oh, Labubus.

[D]

Oh, Tracy, if you don't know, I.

[A]

Did not put that down. A small laboo, but that would have been great.

[D]

A small Labubu collection.

[A]

Yes. Well, I just have one. Someone gave it to me. I feel like I need to specify.

[D]

That, but what if another one had appeared at your desk?

[F]

Ah.

[A]

That was someone else's labubu that they brought in. In Labubu solidarity. But here. Here's the thing. I never wanted one. I was kind of, like, interested in them as a cultural and economic phenomenon because it was the first cultural export of, you know, huge significance from China. But I did not want one personally. And then someone gave it to me, and I actually really love it, and I kind of want another one. So I don't know what's happening.

[F]

Wait, why?

[A]

I don't know.

[D]

Because the little evil bunnies.

[A]

I don't know. Like, it's. It actually. It's really soft. It kind of looks at you funny.

[F]

This is how addictions start, you know? You're saying, like, I got it for free. I was just gonna try it once.

[A]

That's right.

[F]

Now I think about them all the time.

[E]

That's right.

[A]

My Labubu dealer in Chinatown gave me.

[F]

The first one for free.

[E]

Have you named your Labubu?

[A]

I have not. No. I haven't gone that far. Although I know you can buy little.

[D]

Outfits for them, like an American girl doll store.

[E]

And if you're Naomi's asaka, you can bedazzle them.

[D]

Yes. And sell them for enormous amounts of money.

[A]

If I start bedazzling my labubus, you guys will put me in some sort of, like, rehab fac. Yes. Okay.

[D]

Yes. Well, Felix, though, why was this your product of the year?

[E]

Partly for exactly the reason that Tracy gave, which is that people love to compare them to Beanie Babies and to other crazies that have been largely domestic. But the interesting thing about Lovus is they're a Chinese import. And if you are Pop Mart, which makes Leboo Boos, the entire United States is just a kind of afterthought for you. You know, what you really care about is China. That's where the real market is. And then there's natural spillover into the rest of the world and people are like, oh, the Americans like them too. And that's great, but it's the first time that I can remember America falling for a huge sort of toy craze that wasn't American and where not the main character driving. We're not the main character at all.

[C]

I picked TikTok for the same reason for the, like, Chinese export thing. And just like, yes, the fact that we started the year like, TikTok was banned. There were all these good memes. You guys probably don't remember, but one of my thoughts on meme was were there all these funny red note memes where, like, people were posting, like, Chinese translations of various U.S. memes? There were, like, random people in the U.S. being like, here's to my Chinese handler. Like, like, gagging around about the suggestion that TikTok is secretly, you know, a Chinese spy app or something. And yeah, we had this brief flirtation with this app called RedNote, which now everyone has forgotten.

[E]

But TikTok, to be clear, has been banned all year. Like, it is. It's a law.

[F]

It is a law of the United States of America. And we're just laughing.

[D]

But the White house has a TikTok account that has, like, a lot.

[C]

We all got together. We decided to ban it, Democrats and Republicans. It was like, like, basically everyone agreed, signed the law, and then when little threat to take away TikTok and, you know, everybody simultaneously decided that was a bad idea.

[F]

No, everyone except the law and Congress. I know we've all lost our minds.

[D]

Have we learned that they don't matter that much now.

[F]

They don't want to learn that.

[E]

It got to the point where, you know, Apple, which is a law abiding company, did what it was required to do by the law and removed TikTok from the app Store. And the White House had to beg Apple to put it back. And Apple was like, but there's a law against it. We have to follow the law. And eventually, like, you know, the Solicitor General had to send all of these letters saying, like, no, honestly, you can do it. We will not prosecute you. And eventually they relented.

[D]

Feels like a trap. All right, now we have Bill Ackman's tweets. This is the Now, Max, you requested this category specifically. Talk about why you requested the category.

[C]

First of all, let's get into it. The official name of this category is CEO Social Media Post of the Year, Ackman Division. It's like how in cross country skiing you have skate skiing and classic. There are gold medals in both. I picked this because Ackman's Ackman is such a memorable poster. I don't know if he's a good poster. I would say he does too many words in general, but. But he is.

[E]

He should take notes from Joe Eisenthal. Just keep it short.

[C]

But like, he has made a lot of news with his tweets and I picked my favorite this year. Now, do you. Do you all remember when Ackman was trying to become a professional tennis player earlier this year?

[E]

We did.

[D]

That's not true. Wait, is that true?

[E]

That is true.

[C]

He got himself.

[D]

That does not. That doesn't sound true.

[C]

He's in his mid-50s.

[E]

None of it sounds true.

[C]

He got him himself into a tennis match and he played poorly. And then on July 10, he did a longish post on X the Everything app where he explained what had happened. And he said, I can speak in front of an audience of a thousand people or in a TV studio on a broad range of topics without any preparation and without a twinge of fear. But yesterday I had my first real experience of stage fright. It wasn't his athletic, it wasn't the fact that he's again in his 50s pretending to be a tennis player. It was stage fright. And he in fact sort of blamed about tennis. Well, he said he had never played in front of a crowd. But then he also said this was.

[E]

At the US Open, right?

[C]

No, it was at some smaller match in like Rhode Island. He claimed that the pros he was playing against him had gone easy and that threw him off his game because.

[F]

He'S paying the money. It's like, oh, everyone I've ever played with, I've paid lots of money to has let me win.

[A]

One thing I'll say we should all aspire to have the confidence of Bill Amman 100. That's something you can say, right?

[E]

I. I think there is such a thing as too much confidence.

[C]

I think all rich guys should attempt to be professional athletes. I think it's a good. It would be fun for us. It would be humbling for them.

[E]

Whatever happened to the Elon Musk versus Mark Zuckerberg cage fight, Felix?

[C]

I spent 18 months trying to make that happen and it still has yet to happen.

[F]

You got to build the octagon here at Bloomberg. It's waiting for you.

[D]

And finally Tracey, you also had a good Bill Ackman tweet moment.

[A]

Oh, well, speaking of confidence, for me, it has to be the may I meet you line.

[C]

Oh, I know. That's definitely.

[A]

This is the tweet that, like, launched a thousand million confused women around America, right? Like, these guys coming up to you and saying, may I meet you?

[D]

Wait, explain. Explain this tweet.

[A]

So he basically said his technique for picking up women is to approach them and say, may I meet you? And he claimed to never have received a no. Now, I will say the people who tried to adopt this technique and experiment with it, you know, they film videos for TikTok and things like that, they had less success, let's put it that way.

[C]

Wait, did he say this was going to fix the fertility crisis as well?

[D]

But, like, coming back around, this also doesn't feel real.

[C]

This is definitely a bad line, right? I don't know. I've been married for a long time.

[D]

May I meet you?

[A]

I don't think it's great, but in the spirit of the holiday and being charitable, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Do you remember when negging was all the rage and guys would just come up to you and insult you to.

[D]

Your face off your sweater?

[A]

That was a thing. When it was, like, so weird.

[D]

Oh, God, yeah. That was a thing.

[A]

This was a thing.

[D]

Yeah. So. So improvement. Things are getting better.

[A]

Not sure it's a low bar, but sure.

[D]

It's like you were saying, Robert, it's not about how big the market is. It's whether or not it's improving.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Bill Egwen is improving the dating market just a little bit by introducing May I meet you?

[G]

This week on a very special episode of Health Discovered, we take a closer look at Ms.

[A]

Yes. I'm 30 years old. I'm a toddler mom expecting twins, and I was diagnosed with Ms. In 2020.

[G]

Every week in the U.S. approximately 200 people are diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, or Ms. Four times as many women have Ms. As men, and more and more women are developing it.

[A]

Well, first, I will say the doctor that diagnosed me told me on a voicemail, and then when I saw her, she still kind of dismissed all the symptoms that I had.

[G]

We'll also address the deeper challenges patients face, like health disparities that delay diagnosis in underserved communities, the stigmas that may prevent women from seeking care, and the very real barriers that many patients deal with. Listen to Health discovered on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app search health discovered and Start listening.

[B]

Enterprise AI is revolutionizing customer engagement and Amazon's Alexa demonstrates this transformation at scale. Alexa represents a breakthrough in AI assistance evolving from basic command response to goal oriented autonomous operation. Powered by AWS AI, this enterprise grade technology processes billions of natural language interactions daily, continuously improving through machine learning. The result? A secure, scalable voice AI platform that's transforming customer experience across industries. For businesses, this represents more than just voice assistance. It's a proven framework for AI driven digital transformation. Global organizations are already deploying AWS voice technology solutions to enhance customer service, streamline operations and drive innovation. Transform your business Business operations With the same AI technology powering millions of Alexa interactions worldwide, AWS AI the Voice of Innovation Discover the Alexa story at aws.com AI Our-Story Running a business is hard.

[C]

Enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software. Instead of growing your business, this is where Odoo comes in. Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one fully integrated platform that handles everything CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, HR and more. No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable and designed to streamline every process so you can focus on what really matters running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's o d o o dot com. Okay, so that was good. We, we looked, we looked back, we looked back on the year and, and we thought it'd be fun to play a game to sort of do a year in review by way of a game. I know all these answers, so I will not be playing, but you all will be playing and I will be keeping score.

[E]

Is this a quiz?

[C]

The game is called who is Donald Trump Talking about?

[D]

Name the Sycophant.

[C]

Oh well, no, there will. Okay, so let me, let me just, just some hints here. There will be some people who some critics of the Trump administration might describe as sycophants. There will also be some foils, some adversaries, a whole bunch of different people that Trump has found himself in the same Room with this was like a year, I think, defined by this kind of like reality show presidency. And I'm gonna play the clip. I think let's start with Robert on this first one.

[E]

If he.

[C]

If he misses it, one of you.

[D]

Can see, oh, I'm not gonna be good at this game.

[C]

All right, here's. Here's.

[E]

There's only one I'll be able to get, but I'll be able to get that one.

[C]

Here's our first. Here is our first clue.

[H]

This woman is a winner. So, you know, we've become very close friends all of a sudden because their stock market today and our stock market today hit an all time high.

[F]

Is it. Is it the president of Mexico?

[D]

Yeah, I guess, too.

[A]

It's the Japan Prime Minister.

[C]

Yes. Oh, yes, yes. Sinai Takaishi, who was, you know, recently elected. Yeah, he praising. Praising her. Tracy, do you know, like, what is the stat of the Trump Japan relationship at the moment?

[A]

I don't know. I mean, I feel like it changes minute to minute. Right. And kind of depends on who he spoke to last. So don't ask.

[C]

Okay. That is a point to Tracy. Wait, I need to. Yeah. Thank you, Robert. All right.

[E]

Robert is keeping score.

[C]

Robert's keeping score. That's great. Okay, second question. This one is for Felix and Baron.

[H]

Got to meet him, and I think he respects his father a little bit more now, just the fact that I introduced you, so I just want to thank him. Thank you both for being here. Thank you very much. Really an honor.

[C]

Okay, so this is someone, as you heard in that clip that Trump introduced to Barron.

[D]

Trump and Barron was clearly impressed.

[C]

Baron was impressed.

[D]

The idol of Barons.

[F]

Hard to impress that kid.

[C]

Felix, what do you got?

[E]

I'm just gonna have. I have no idea. So I'm gonna take a wild guess at Shohei Ohtani.

[C]

It is not Shohei Ohtani. I wish I can start giving hints.

[F]

Kid Rock.

[C]

Not Kid Rock.

[D]

That's a good guess.

[C]

All right, so I'm gonna give you a hint, one of which. Which is that the World cup is coming to our shores next year.

[A]

Oh, it's.

[E]

Is it Leo Messi?

[C]

It is not Messi, but you're getting there.

[A]

The other one with a billion children.

[E]

Kalina Mbappe.

[C]

You're so close.

[A]

The Spanish guy.

[C]

Not Spanish or Portuguese. Thank you, Cristiano Ronaldo.

[A]

Yes. I feel like I should get half a point for that.

[C]

I knew who it was.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Tracy, half a point. Felix, half a point. Oh, no. Or Felix one. Tracy gets a half. All right, fine.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you. For your charity.

[C]

All right, here's the next one. This is for Tracy. She's on fire so far.

[A]

Oh, dear.

[H]

He is very strong, very good leader. He's a nice man, but he can be nasty. He can be very nasty. Maybe as nasty as anybody.

[F]

It's a rare male nasty.

[A]

Cause that's a good point. That's a tough one because it could be a number of people, but I'm going to go with President Xi Jinping.

[C]

That is a really, really good guess, but it is not Xi Jinping. Anybody else?

[D]

Is it Putin?

[C]

It is not Putin.

[E]

Is it Zelensky?

[C]

It is not Zelensky. It is an important world leader, but not of as big an economy as China.

[A]

Hungarian.

[C]

No, it's not. Yes, Mark Carney. Felix has it.

[F]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, okay. I don't think many people would describe Mark Carney as nasty, but they might use other adjectives.

[E]

Yeah, he. He describes a lot of Canadians.

[C]

That's a compliment, though, coming from Trump. That is. He doesn't mean this.

[D]

It's not an insult.

[C]

I think he means it as a compliment. I don't know. Okay, here's. Here's the next one.

[F]

Just to recap. Felix is ahead with two points. Tracy 1.5. Robert has zero.

[C]

All right.

[D]

I also have zero.

[F]

I wasn't getting it.

[C]

You're getting your question now. Here we go.

[A]

Okay, I'm two.

[D]

This is a fun one.

[C]

Now this is a two person question.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

You're the. You're a host. So, you know, yours is harder.

[D]

Oh, no.

[H]

I call them the Bobsy twins. They're the most different human beings I've ever met. They're both great, but one is a little bit different than the other, like by about 200 yards.

[C]

The Bobsy twins.

[E]

Who in the.

[D]

That is. I'm going to give you a reference.

[C]

This is hard. Who in the Trump administration might you describe as the Bobsy twins?

[D]

Like two different people in the Trump administration.

[C]

Different. He says they're different.

[D]

I feel like this might be.

[E]

Are they biologically related?

[C]

No.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

One of them is.

[D]

One of them Elon Musk?

[C]

No.

[D]

No.

[C]

One of them is Scott Besant.

[D]

One of them is Scott Besant and Rubio.

[C]

Nope. Okay, think about, like, Besant's affect and the affect of other people. It's Lutnick. Oh, my God, he's right.

[D]

The Bobby.

[F]

200 yards apart.

[C]

200 yards.

[E]

Because Bezand and Lutnick were famously in competition to see. Both of them wanted the Treasury Secretary job and that was the big, like, fight off.

[F]

Is that a Point for Felix.

[C]

That's a point for Felix. Okay, so what do we have? Felix is up to three now.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, here we go, Robert. Don't worry. There's a second round. Okay, Good, good, good. All right, here we go.

[D]

Is there a prize?

[C]

Yes, there is a prize.

[H]

I should have mentioned he's different than, you know, your average candidate. He came out of nowhere. I said, he has a great campaign manager standing over there. He came out of. He came out of nowhere. Wouldn't you start off at one or two? And then I watched. I said, who is this guy?

[F]

I knew it from the first sentence. It's Zoran.

[C]

Donnie Zoran. Momdonny. That was one of the strangest and most surprising moments in the White House.

[D]

It's interesting because I feel like I had been all for kind of reaching across the aisle. I do not like all the divisiveness in our country right now, but that moment made me so deeply uncomfortable. Why was that press conference? So I couldn't watch it.

[C]

Wait, really?

[D]

Oh, my gosh. I died.

[E]

For me, it was very possibly the most impressive performance that I've seen Zoran Ramdani give in that he's sitting. He's standing in the White House next to Donald Trump, who is grinning and doing thumbs up, and he is very, very consciously not smiling and not putting his thumbs up and trying to convey to his face that, no, I am in no way a fan of. Of this guy. While, you know, it's a fine line to walk. It is.

[F]

And it was Trump's. It was really one of Trump's best lines about being called a fascist, which is Trump's like, yeah, go ahead and say it.

[E]

Like, I don't think. I don't think Trump minds being called a fascist. I genuinely don't think he finds that to be insulting.

[C]

He said so. He said as much. It's easier that way. All right, here we go. This is our sixth question.

[E]

This.

[C]

Felix, this one is for you.

[H]

I love watching him on television. I'd love to have him come up and explain his true feelings, but maybe not his truest feelings. That might be going a little bit too far.

[C]

Okay, so this is someone that Trump enjoys watching on television, but doesn't really want to look inside his brain. Doesn't want to. Doesn't maybe doesn't want to get too close. It's a member of the Trump administration.

[E]

Oh. Oh. I'm just gonna come out and say Rubio, because he's the only member of the Trump administration I can think of off the top of my head.

[C]

Okay. Not Rubio.

[A]

J.D. vance.

[C]

Not J.D.

[F]

Rubio.

[E]

I don't wanna see that couch.

[F]

There's one.

[C]

Just hang in there for anyone to take. This is a person who was very involved also with the first Trump presidency. He's on the younger side.

[E]

Oh, Miller.

[C]

Yes, Stephen Miller.

[E]

Oh, yeah. You do not want to look inside that guy's mind.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

I mean, I hate. I hate to agree with Donald Trump, but he's right about it.

[F]

Oh, yes, he's very right.

[C]

All right, Robert, where are we now? What are the scores? We have two more questions to go.

[F]

Felix is running away with it. Four points. Tracy at 1.5. I have one. And Stacy, nothing yet.

[D]

All right, Tracy, this is the power of yet.

[H]

Despite that, it's having very little impact because we have, you know, we have all of these things happening, but it has an impact. Impact on housing to a certain extent. He's a fool. He's a stupid man.

[A]

I feel like I know it, but I can't remember now.

[D]

I bet I know.

[F]

I bet I know, too.

[A]

Impact on housing. I don't know. I'm blinking. Give me a hint.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Or other people know.

[C]

You're overthinking this.

[F]

Donald Trump thinks it has a big impact on housing, but your economic brain is like, well, does it really have this effect on housing?

[C]

Robert's meme.

[D]

Federal funds rate.

[A]

Oh, Powell.

[C]

Jerome Powell. That's.

[A]

Yeah, you're right.

[C]

You know, it's confusing because Trump did nominate Powell and there was a time when he didn't go around calling him a stupid man. But now that that time has passed.

[E]

Do you remember when Trump nominated Powell because he was tall, unlike Janet Yellen, who was.

[D]

Yes, I do. That broke my heart and I never forgave him. I loved Janet Yellen. I love Janet Yellen.

[C]

All right, last question. Yes, this is. This is gonna be worth two points. Oh, and just because I want to make it interesting.

[D]

Ouch. Okay, that is unnecessary, actually.

[C]

Oh, no. Tracy can win it. She will win it. All right, here we go.

[D]

Okay.

[H]

I like them as people. I've listened to their music over the years. They are characters, too. Really are. I don't know if you saw last night, the speeches. They were great. They really made some great speeches last night. And they're very popular.

[D]

I'm going to defer to. To like Tracy.

[A]

No, take it, take it.

[D]

I'm probably wrong, but the Village People.

[C]

Wrong.

[A]

Okay.

[F]

Oh.

[C]

Oh.

[D]

Cuz he loves them.

[C]

Any other guesses?

[E]

But they're not people.

[A]

And it's more than one it is a.

[F]

And they don't give speech.

[C]

It's a group of people.

[D]

It's. But it's singing, right? No.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Maybe.

[A]

Oh, oh.

[E]

Is it Journey or Boston or something like that?

[A]

Wait, it's not Kiss.

[B]

It's Kiss.

[A]

Oh, there we go. Okay.

[E]

All right. Tracy has Tracy coming.

[C]

4.5 points.

[A]

I knew my 1980s rock history college.

[C]

Would come in one day at the Kennedy Center. Recently, Trump awarded medals he literally, like.

[D]

Put to the Kennedy Center.

[C]

Yeah, they were wearing their makeup for part of the ceremony and. And no makeup in the other half. Also, I believe Sylvester Stallone got an award, too. I had a clip there, but didn't have time to play it. Tracy, you are the winner. You win a bunch of Swedish liquor, a bunch of Swedish licorice.

[A]

Wow. Your producers throw things at me.

[F]

Yes.

[C]

Wow. Swedish licorice, which.

[A]

Thank you. I actually hate this.

[C]

No, everyone hates it.

[A]

My husband loves it, so.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

It tastes like pee, according to Stacy Vanek Smith. Well, thank you.

[A]

Thank you for your generous gift.

[D]

I stand by that assessment.

[E]

I'm never have I been happier to lose the contest.

[D]

We're all winners. Yes. No, I mean, it really does, though.

[C]

And with that, Stacy, I think we should wrap. We should wrap 2025. Our Legends of Pod episode is complete.

[D]

Thank you. Legends of Pod.

[C]

Robert Smith, Felix Salmon, Tracee, Alloway. Thank you all for being here.

[A]

Welcome. Thank you for inviting us. It was fun.

[E]

So much fun.

[C]

We will do this next year with more clips, more contests. Maybe I'll do the HGTV thing.

[D]

Oh, yes. Tracy's all in on that.

[F]

Will it be the same legends or are there new Legends of.

[E]

We have to fight to retain our plays.

[D]

Cage match. No, no. The Legends are locked.

[C]

This show is produced by Stacy Wong. Magnus Henriksen is our supervising producer and Amy Keen our executive producer. Sam Rogich handles engineering and Dave Purcell fact checks. Sage Bauman heads Bloomberg Podcast. Special thanks to Jeff Muskus, Julie Rubin, Charlie Goravin, Joshua Devoe, Angel Recchio, and Maria Ling. If you have a minute, please rate and review our show. It'll mean a lot to us. And if you have a story that should be our business, email us@everybody's bloomberg.net that's everybody with an sloomberg.net. thanks for listening. Happy holidays and we will see you in 2026.

[G]

This week on a very special episode of Health discovered, we take a closer look at Ms. Every week in the US approximately 200 people are diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.

[A]

I grew up with parents that were divorced, and so when it was time for me to find care for these symptoms, it kind of just fell on me.

[G]

We'll also address the deeper challenges patients face, like health disparities that delay diagnosis in underserved communities. Listen to health discovered on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.

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I already love same day delivery with Shipt, but it's so much better since I signed up for target's circle 360. Why? Because I no longer pay price markups from the majority of stor through shipped only a handful of alcohol retailers and items don't count. That means no markups on groceries, pet food, even home goods and makeup. So to recap, I have more time to catch up on life while someone shops for me and I spend less. It's a win win. Order [e-mail] 360trees apply. America, America, you used to be so fun but now you go to bed at night scrolling on your phone well listen up America.

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Carnival is here with world class crew and robes course too and comedy and snorkeling and dining like everything from sea to shining sea.

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Find your fun [e-mail] Carnival is calling.

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