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Trump’s War on Data and Rise of the Pricing Bots

Everybody's Business

Fri Aug 08 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everybody's Business

Episode: Trump’s War on Data and Rise of the Pricing Bots
Hosts: Max Chafkin & Stacey Vanek Smith
Date: August 8, 2025

Brief Overview

This episode explores the increasing politicization of information, from government data to consumer advertising, and examines the often-invisible influence of AI on everyday pricing. Hosts Max Chafkin and Stacey Vanek Smith unpack the political firestorm around government employment data, the Sydney Sweeney "great jeans" ad controversy, and the ways in which AI is quietly reshaping how much we pay for everything from airline tickets to groceries. The show also ends with a lighter, surprising story about how drones and pop culture are being used to scare off wolves from cattle ranches.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Politicization of Consumption and Advertising

[02:56 – 08:20]

Sydney Sweeney x American Eagle Ad:
- The controversy centers on an ad campaign with actress Sydney Sweeney and its wordplay "great jeans/genes," which was criticized for alleged eugenicist undertones. Some perceive it as a subtle nod to white supremacy (D: 03:53).
- Quote:
  
  “In the ad, she’s like, jeans are the thing that give you your skin color and your hair color and even your eyes. And then it says, Sydney Sweeney has great jeans, and she is blonde with blue eyes. And so people are saying this is like a nod to eugenics or white supremacy.”
  — Stacey Vanek Smith [04:03]
- The reaction was amplified when Donald Trump weighed in, explicitly endorsing the ad after learning Sweeney is a registered Republican.
- Quote:
  
  “If Sydney Sweeney is a registered Republican, I think her ad is fantastic.”
  — Max Chafkin, quoting Trump [05:46]
- Discussion about whether consumers’ politics now influence purchasing decisions, referencing examples like Bud Light, Target, Tesla, and firsthand street interviews in NYC about the ad’s impact on shoppers.
Consumer Reactions:
- Shoppers vary in their awareness and level of concern; some are highly sensitive to brand politics, others less so.
- Quote:
  
  “As an African American … everything seems small until it’s not anymore. Me personally, I wouldn’t shop here.”
  — Street interviewee [07:20]

2. Trump’s “War on Data”: Politicizing Government Statistics

[11:04 – 26:54]

Trump Fires BLS Head:
- Trump’s firing of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) commissioner after a lackluster jobs report is viewed as unprecedented and alarming by both the hosts and expert guest.
- Quote:
  
  “It’s so unprecedented… A line has been breached that had never been breached before. Presidents have tried to manipulate BLS data, but they’ve always been stopped.”
  — Erica Groshen, Former BLS Commissioner [12:58]
Why Employment Data Matters:
- Max and Stacey stress that the integrity of employment and inflation data from the BLS is crucial — informing everything from Social Security payouts to business compensation planning.
- Quote:
  
  “Think about Social Security benefits … If the CPI is wrong by a tenth of 1%, the federal government will overpay or underpay recipients by about a billion dollars.”
  — Erica Groshen [24:12]
How BLS Data Is Collected:
- Groshen explains the process: surveys from 120,000 employers, feeding data from over 600,000 establishments. Revisions occur because not all data is in by the early deadline; roughly 30-40% must be extrapolated.
- The BLS’s reliability is under stress due to understaffing, budget cuts, and diminished advisory resources, but Groshen insists the data remains trustworthy — for now.
International Precedents and Risks:
- Reference to other countries (Greece, Argentina, China) where manipulated economic statistics led to higher borrowing costs and widespread mistrust.
- Groshen is optimistic about the near term but warns that repeated breaches may do long-term damage to U.S. data credibility.

3. AI’s “War on Your Wallet”: Rise of Pricing Bots

[28:09 – 38:37]

Dynamic Pricing Gets Personal:
- Max reports on the accelerating use of AI for price discrimination in industries from air travel to housing rentals.
- Airlines (like Delta) and retailers now use algorithms that can set prices at the highest point they think a particular customer will pay, based on personal behavior and possibly personal data.
- Quote:
  
  “They’re all just going to basically make our airline tickets more expensive.”
  — Max Chafkin [29:09]
- He references internal sales materials from the company Fetcher, which markets “alien superintelligence” tools adapted from high-frequency trading to consumer pricing.
Potential for Abuse:
- Nightmare scenarios include AI detecting urgency (funeral, medical emergencies) and spiking prices, or rideshare algorithms depressing pay for desperate drivers.
- Many companies, including Amazon, already practice dynamic pricing, sometimes with unclear boundaries on the use of personal data.
- Quote:
  
  “We are just more predictable than we realize... [They] know what your exact situation is and are able to use that to their advantage.”
  — Max Chafkin [34:25]
AI Collusion:
- Discussion of academic research and FTC complaints suggesting AI pricing bots at different companies can collude, raising prices industry-wide even without explicit instruction.
- Quote:
  
  “The two algorithms would start colluding with one another to raise prices.”
  — Max Chafkin [36:16]
How Can Consumers Respond?:
- Tips include clearing cookies, using different browsers, and shopping around — even when options seem limited.
- There’s hope that new consumer-side AI tools could help customers outsmart corporate pricing bots in the future.
- Quote:
  
  “We’re going to have our own algorithms, I hope, to try to overcome those. Like, we’ll have to act like our own hackers.”
  — Max Chafkin [38:18]

4. Underreported Story: Drones, Wolves, and AC/DC

[38:59 – End]

Innovative Rancher Solutions:
- Stacey’s “favorite story of 2025”: Western ranchers are using heat-seeking drones to detect wolves and then playing loud noises to scare them off.
- Unexpectedly, AC/DC’s "Thunderstruck" and audio from the film "Marriage Story" (particularly a fight scene between Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson) are effective at frightening wolves away from cattle herds.
- Quote:
  
  “They play that fight scene to scare off wolves. … If you and your significant other are hiking and you see a mountain lion, just start fighting.”
  — Stacey Vanek Smith [41:20, 42:25]
- The segment closes with hosts joking about what other sounds might scare off predators, including their own podcast.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Social Trust and Data:
- “We have crossed a line that’s never been crossed before.”
  — Erica Groshen [22:44]
On AI Price Gouging:
- “You could imagine, one of those [fare classes] is, like, desperate bereaved traveler; one is, like, broke Uber driver.”
  — Max Chafkin [35:03]
On Collusive Algorithms:
- “The only thing that is stopping companies from doing more of this … is embarrassment.”
  — Max Chafkin [36:38]
On Scaring Off Wolves:
- “Wolves are like, it’s time for some self-care. I just, I can’t even eat right now.”
  — Stacey Vanek Smith [42:01]

Timestamps for Key Segments

[02:56] — Main theme setup: Advertising, politics, tariffs
[03:53] — Sydney Sweeney American Eagle ad controversy
[05:46] — Trump’s endorsement of Sweeney & ad politicization
[07:00-08:20] — Consumer interviews: are politics influencing buying?
[11:04] — Transition to the politicization of government data
[12:58] — Interview with former BLS Commissioner Erica Groshen
[14:46] — The impact and process of BLS labor/inflation data
[19:51] — Why BLS revises its initial employment data
[22:44] — Erosion of trust in official statistics & dangers
[24:12] — Concrete consequences for bad data: Social Security example
[28:09] — AI & ‘superintelligence’ in consumer pricing
[30:36] — Nightmare scenarios of personal pricing algorithms
[34:24] — AI colluding to fix prices
[36:32] — Consumer strategies & possible AI “arms race”
[38:59] — Cattle ranchers’ high-tech battle against wolves (drones, AC/DC, and “Marriage Story”)
[41:20] — Playing movie fight scenes to scare wolves

Tone and Style

The conversation is lively, conversational, and playful, but underpinned by serious economic, political, and ethical concerns.
Max frequently adopts a cynically humorous or slightly alarmist tech-reporter voice, while Stacey toggles between explanatory journalism and lighthearted banter.

For Further Listening

Fans are encouraged to email their own stories of AI pricing–or creative predator deterrents–to everybody's@bloomberg.net.

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Transcript

A (0:00)

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A (1:02)

Bloomberg Audio Studios podcasts, Radio.

C (1:07)

News this is everybody's business from Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Max Chaffkin.

D (1:15)

And I'm Stacey Vanek Smith. Max, I think the theme of this week is war. We've got the newest iteration in the trade war. Trump's new tariff deadlines this week. India, Switzerland, all this news coming in hot.

C (1:27)

Oh my God. Tariffs.

D (1:28)

Okay.

C (1:29)

We also have the war on government data. We're going to do a deep dive into the unemployment data, the data that's at the center of all these controversies with a former head of the Bureau of Labor statistics.

D (1:41)

And then AI's war on your wallet. You might be asking ChatGPT for tips on like, setting better boundaries with your family. Meanwhile, it is silently mining your data and figuring out how much it can overcharge you for going home to visit your family for the holidays.

C (1:57)

Maybe we'll talk about that. And finally, Stacy, the underrated story of the week, which I actually, I have no idea what it is.

D (2:03)

I know. I'm very excited. I've kept it a secret. Here is what I'm going to tell you. Max, how do you fight off one of the biggest, baddest, deadliest apex predators on the planet? I will give you a hint. Stick around. All will be revealed. Oh, Max, another week, another round of tariff news. This week is no exception. Another big tariff deadline. Lots of negotiations happening. India, Switzerland, it's, it's a lot.

C (31:00)

It'S going to get worse because I looked into one of the companies that is working with airlines, this company called Fetcher, and basically found this sales document that they put out. And this is a sales document not aimed at consumers, but aimed at businesses who of course, just want to raise prices, want to raise revenue. And it talks about the idea of applying what they call alien superintelligence to the problem of figuring out how much money they can charge you. And the idea is to take the technologies that were used by high frequency traders, you know, these, these crazy strategies that are too complex to even conceptualize, but to bring that to domains with consumers. So when you're buying an airplane ticket, there's some like, crazy algorithm working behind the scenes that is, is figuring out how much you're going to pay. And I should say this idea of AI pricing is everywhere now. It's not just in airlines and this sense that you have of, of the frustration of buying airline tickets, Stacy, it is going, it's going to be everywhere very soon. And it in fact is everywhere. We've seen landlords using it to figure out rents using AI software. And pretty much every online retailer in the planet has used AI to price to some extent. You know about rideshare fares, I assume, because like Uber, when, you know, depending on, when you, when you do it, that that affects the price. It also affects rideshare wages. So, so how much the driver is going to get paid. And we've, we've seen drivers complain, credibly complain that it's not necessarily the same thing. It's like your surge price may be different than the driver surge price, meatpacking prices. There, there were allegations of AI being used to raise those. So let me just lay out the nightmare scenario which, which you alluded to, which is like you need to fly somewhere for a funeral or for a medical procedure. You cannot delay your trip. And an AI figures that out and, and jacks it up like five times the normal price. Or like you're driving for Uber and you have $0 in your bank account and Uber figures out, oh, like this guy is desperate. Like, I'm just going to pay him $5 for this ride instead of 15, which is what I would have paid. He's going to do it because he's that desperate. That is the scary situation. I think that that is not quite there yet. And in the course of this story and amid the outcry over Delta and the use of AI, the company has come out and said, essentially, we are not Using personal data to, to, to set AI prices. They did not say yet, but I do think that yet is there that like many companies are going to use personal data.