Everybody's Business – "Will Horror Gruel Save Hollywood?"

Hosted by Max Chafkin & Stacy Vanek Smith
Date: October 31, 2025

Episode Overview

This Halloween-themed episode examines both the business of fear—literally and figuratively. Hosts Max Chafkin and Stacy Vanek Smith explore:

• The state of the movie industry and whether horror can "save" Hollywood, with expert guest Sean Fennesee (co-host of The Big Picture Podcast).
• A deeply personal, ground-level perspective on recent ICE raids and their economic impact, as recounted by economist Leo Feller.
• Lighter Halloween fare: a trip through a haunted bank and a taste test of trending candies.

The episode captures the interplay between pop culture, politics, and everyday business, all wrapped in the holiday spirit.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Current Political & Economic Updates

• Trump Administration Policy Wins
  • Argentina: Javier Milei's successful avoidance of economic disaster post-U.S. bailout.
    • Max: "If you have not been paying attention, the bailout worked. Javier Milei was successful during the Argentine midterm election...the chainsaw lives on." (02:06)
  • China Tariffs: Temporary truce where China paused their threat to withhold rare earths, and the U.S. paused new tariffs for a year.
    • Stacy: "Any small change, any small truce, even if it's temporary, is a big deal. It's good for our economy." (04:09)
    • Max, skeptical: "This is a nothing burger, Stacey...It's just a truce." (03:51)
• Lighthearted ribbing between hosts about the value—or lack thereof—of watching the stock market as a real-time economic indicator.

2. Halloween Business: The Haunted Bank Experience

• Stacy visits a haunted house set up in an old, historic New York bank—a nod to financial panic as a real modern-day fear.
  • Stacy: "Financial crises can mess you up way more than, like, a werewolf or something." (06:14)
• Anecdotes from the event highlight tongue-in-cheek financial horror: visitors interacting with "evil" bank tellers and scary clowns in the vault.
• Max wishes for "horror consultants" for scarier economic themes: "They need to explore the terrors of like, a credit crisis or...financial panic." (09:10)
• Historical context: The building’s origin as the National City Bank of New York, implicated in the 1929 crash.
• Quick hit on the business side: Tickets cost $50; 500 people go through daily.

3. ICE Raids: The Real-Life Economic Chiller

Guest: Economist Leo Feller (segment begins ~[10:43])

Feller’s Firsthand Account:

• Construction site at his home raided by masked ICE agents; warrants never shown; agents scaled four-foot spiked fences.
• Feller watched events unfold live via security cameras from Toronto, intervened over Ring camera audio.
  • "I'm a U.S. citizen. I never thought I would be this afraid of my own government." (16:00)
• Aftermath: Violence, a worker detained, others injured, legal scramble to contest the detention.

Economic Impact of Immigration Crackdowns:

• Feller’s research confirms chilling effects:
  • Documented drop in consumer spending among first-generation Hispanic households.
  • Fearful workers avoiding public spaces, even gyms and stores like Home Depot.
  • Feller: "We’ve seen consumption come down amongst this cohort...they’re less able to earn income...there might be fear about going to construction sites." (18:21)

Debunking Economic Myths:

• Feller disputes the claim that such enforcement “frees up jobs” for citizens, citing Nobel Prize-winning economic research:
  • Immigrants take undesirable ladder-rung jobs, which pushes everyone up, ultimately stimulating demand.
  • "AI is not going to be able to put windows and siding on my house." (21:12)
• Ripple effect: If work halts, so does demand for U.S.-made products (e.g., windows from Marvin in Roanoke, VA), tying local raids to a nationwide slowdown.

Personal Response:

• Feller suspends his own renovation indefinitely: "There is no just crew of American workers that's sitting around waiting to finish up this project." (24:43)

4. State of the Movie Industry

Guest: Sean Fennesee, co-host of The Big Picture Podcast and Head of Content at The Ringer (segment begins ~[26:12])

Movie Theaters in Decline:

• Long-term ticket sales trending down for 50 years—due to streaming, changing habits, and expense.
  • "Going to the movies necessitates a night out...It’s also a hobby that can be conquered if you're willing to wait two months till the film comes to streaming." (27:10)
• Still, 2025 saw success with Ryan Coogler’s “Sinners” and the continued cultural impact of Barbenheimer.

2025’s Underwhelming Summer:

• Big-budget IP (Superman, Jurassic Park, Fantastic Four) failed to revive the box office.
• Original horror (“Weapons”) succeeded with modest budgets and major returns.
  • "Weapons was a huge positive...made well over $200 million on a budget way lower than that." (29:18)

What “Success” Means in Hollywood Now:

• Blockbusters need to justify enormous marketing and production budgets.
• Arty hits (like P.T. Anderson’s “One Battle After Another”): critical darlings can become enduring assets (“forever movies”)—even if initial box office is only borderline profitable.
  • "If you become a forever movie, it's an annuity...a revenue stream in perpetuity." (31:24)

Outlook:

• Fennesee: "You have to accept that the movie business is getting smaller...but it doesn't mean that it isn't going to exist." (32:52)
• Theatrical events are likely to become rarer, more “premium,” akin to concerts or Taylor Swift albums.
• Hope remains: tentpoles and horror still draw crowds.

5. Horror: The One Genre That Still Works

• Communal horror moviegoing is “very fun.” Fans (including Sean) tolerate lower-quality entries just for the experience.
  • "The bar[rier] quality is lower and we're willing to eat gruel even if it gives us our horror hit." (35:28)
• Case in point: “Final Destination: Bloodlines” (the sixth entry) grosses over $200 million.
  • "Whenever we get into the doomsaying conversation, I do point to things like that to say, like, hey, people did get a babysitter...to go see Final Destination Bloodlines." (36:36)

Sean’s Horror Recommendations (37:15–39:35):

• "The Strangers" — home invasion terror.
• "The Changeling" — classic supernatural chills.
• "Cannibal Holocaust" — infamous, intense cult favorite.
  • (Though not for everyone: “Cannibal Holocaust is very dark.” — Sean, 39:31)

Hosts’ Horror Comfort Zones:

• Stacy: Fears supernatural/ghost stories ("Slashers don't scare me...But ghosts scare me a lot." 39:56)
• Max: Not a horror fan; plans to watch the World Series instead.

Notable Quote:

"I always say that I love going to the movies to feel something. And horror movies...make people feel the most consistently."
—Sean Fennesee (40:34)

6. Candy Trends: Extreme Flavors & Global Sweets (Segment starts ~[41:08])

Candy Consumption Hits Record Highs

• U.S. candy spending projected at $3.9B for 2025.
• Trends: Extreme sour, textured, "experiential" candies appeal to Gen Alpha.

Live Candy Taste Test

• Nerds Gummy Clusters: "It's actually pretty delicious." — Stacy (43:25)
• Super Sour Gushers: Actually, “kind of bland.”
• Gummy Burger: Comically tough to chew ("It's like a sole of a shoe." — Stacy, 44:31)
• Salted Swedish Licorice (from producer Magnus’s mom): Divisive ("It gets worse and worse as you masticate it." — Max, 45:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Leo Feller on civil liberties:

  "I never thought I would be this afraid of my own government." (16:00)

• Sean Fennesee on horror as escapism:

  "The bar[rier] quality is lower and we're willing to eat gruel even if it gives us our horror hit." (35:28)

• Max mocking the ‘haunted bank’:

  "They need to explore the terrors of like, a credit crisis or...structural spillover." (09:10)

• Stacy’s Halloween philosophy:

  "Financial crises can mess you up way more than, like, a werewolf." (06:14)

• On Swedish salted licorice:

  "It gets worse and worse as you masticate it." — Max (45:25)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:06 — U.S.-Argentina bailout update
• 03:18 — U.S.-China tariff “truce” debate
• 05:39 — Stacy’s haunted bank field report
• 10:43 — Start of Leo Feller’s ICE raid story
• 13:55 — Leo intervenes via Ring camera
• 16:00 — Feller on fear of government
• 18:21 — Economic effects of ICE raids
• 21:12 — Debunking the “immigrants take jobs” myth
• 26:12 — Movie business roundtable w/ Sean Fennesee starts
• 29:18 — “Weapons” and success factors for horror
• 31:24 — The enduring value of “forever movies”
• 35:28 — Why horror remains a box office stalwart
• 37:15 — Sean Fennesee’s horror movie recs
• 41:08 — Candy trends & taste test
• 45:25 — Salted licorice disaster

Tone & Style

Upbeat, irreverent, and smart. Chafkin and Smith trade playful barbs while giving weight to serious business and societal issues. Guests offer expertise punctuated with relatable, emotional moments. The episode is as interested in “spooky season” and pop consumption as it is in policy and economic hardship.

Summary

Whether confronting economic fear—via haunted banks or the realities of immigration enforcement—or seeking escapism in gory horror and cavity-inducing candy, "Will Horror Gruel Save Hollywood?" encapsulates the powerful ways business, culture, and personal experience intersect in today’s America. The future of movies may be smaller, but the appetite for fear—real or manufactured—remains as big as ever.