Everybody's Business – Episode Summary

Podcast: Everybody’s Business
Hosts: Max Chafkin, Stacey Vanek Smith
Episode: Will the Shutdown Lead to DOGE 2.0?
Date: October 3, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Max and Stacey tackle the dual spectacles dominating business and politics: the ongoing US government shutdown and the rise of crypto—and their unexpected intersection. They explore how recurring shutdowns and mounting political chaos might trigger new, more permanent attempts to reshape government functions, referencing recent turmoil and the shadow of past efforts like "Doge." The second half delves into the wild world of crypto billionaire Justin Sun and his controversial partnership with President Trump. The episode wraps with a sharp (and feminist) critique of how even “sugar daddies” are feeling the economic pinch.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Government Shutdown – Severity and Political Theater

Timestamps: 01:30–20:02

• Stacey opens by highlighting the pervasive sense of chaos from the government shutdown, sharing insights from University of Michigan students about their anxieties—housing, jobs, rising prices, and aid like the Pell Grant vanishing.

  • Notable student worries: Cost of living, job market stagnation, loss of financial aid, tariffs, and food prices.
  • [04:14] Quote (Student): "Are we going to be able to get a house, or like what are we going to do? ... I think that's just a bigger worry in a lot of students' minds."

• Justin Wolfers, economist and University of Michigan professor, joins the show.

  • He reassures listeners that the macroeconomic impact of a shutdown (even with 750,000 federal employees furloughed) is limited—calling it ultimately an “utterly, utterly pointless and utterly dispiriting” political conflict.
  • [07:21] Quote (Wolfers): "If we think about the macro economy, the ups and downs of GDP ... it's just not that big of a deal."
  • [07:57] Quote (Wolfers): "A billion dollars is both a tiny fraction of GDP and a ton of money. And wasting it for no reason whatsoever feels utterly, utterly pointless and utterly dispiriting."

• The hosts and Wolfers discuss public numbness leading to longer shutdowns:

  • [10:20] Quote (Wolfers): "If you remove the urgency, that then creates the possibility that this one actually runs on a whole lot longer."

• Max raises concerns about this shutdown being different:

  • The Trump administration is using the moment (e.g., layoffs, attacking agencies) to push their permanent agenda—echoing controversial past efforts such as “Doge.”
  • Russ Vought, Trump’s OMB chief, leads this charge, aiming to “defang the deep state.”

• Wolfers debunks the notion that shutdowns are about fiscal prudence—discussing how they're driven more by political posturing than real cost-cutting given federal payroll is only ~5–7% of the budget (excluding the military).

  • [16:26] Quote (Wolfers): "Most of our experiences with government...are actually state and local. That’s the wrong model for the federal government. It’s an insurance company with an army."

• Personal toll on federal employees and future public servants is emphasized:

  • [18:44] Quote (Wolfers): "For the folks who are currently in the federal government, which includes many of my former students, they're being asked to go without pay for as long as the politicians decide… we are using people as pawns in greater political games. And I’ve seen more of that since January of 2025 than I've ever seen in my life."

2. Justin Sun, Trump, and “DOGE 2.0” – How Crypto Became Presidential

Timestamps: 22:31–40:43

• Max and Stacey set the stage: Trump, after years of being anti-crypto, has not only embraced the industry but mixed it directly into politics through new coins and abrupt regulatory reversals.

Who Is Justin Sun?

• Zeke Fox, Bloomberg reporter and crypto book author, details Sun’s colorful history—stints as blockchain entrepreneur (Tron), buyer of pop art (the infamous duct-taped banana), and ambassadorial titles bought from microstates.

  • [26:23] Quote (Fox): "Within crypto, Sun is infamous...he loves publicity stunts. He commissioned a theme song for his blockchain Tron, by the Oscar-winning composer Hans Zimmer."

• Sun paid $75 million (with another $15 million invested in Trump’s projects) to companies controlled by the Trump family—shortly before his SEC lawsuit was paused, raising eyebrows about impropriety.

  • [25:48] Quote (Fox): "Sun first invested $90 million in Trump coins, and then the lawsuit was paused. We don’t know why exactly."

Crypto's Influence in Trump's Administration

• Fox describes the broader strategy: Crypto moguls, once antagonized, are now influential donors and advisors, with some (like Sun) even being named official advisors on Trump’s crypto enterprise, “World Liberty.”

  • [35:26] Quote (Fox): "Sun actually played a key role in Trump...getting into the crypto business."
  • Sun’s purchases provided early momentum—and perceived legitimacy—to Trump’s fledgling “meme coin” and crypto ventures.

• Concerns raised about conflicts of interest; payments from foreign nationals to companies with close presidential ties test legal and ethical boundaries.

  • [36:55] Quote (Fox): "For this to be illegal, you’d have to prove that favors had been done in exchange for these payments...so far, I haven’t seen anyone who’s nailed down something where they’ve proven that a particular action was taken because of a particular payment…"

• The cultural similarities between Trump and Sun—both using money to buy status and attention—are discussed with a satirical tone.

  • [34:55] Quote (Fox): “He got a Trump watch. In fact, he got a Trump Watch.”

• Final segment covers Bloomberg Billionaires Index reporting on Sun’s true crypto wealth—and Sun’s ensuing lawsuit against Bloomberg for publicizing wallet contents (allegedly provided by Sun).

  • [39:33] Quote (Fox): "He said that listing his crypto holdings put him at risk...and that he does not, in fact, own a majority of Tron’s tokens. But when Bloomberg went to ask him which of these holdings are not actually yours...they did not respond."

3. The “Sugar Daddy” Recession – Are Women Still Relying on Men (but Cheaper Ones)?

Timestamps: 43:16–47:19

• Max brings up a lighthearted but revealing story: Even “sugar daddies” are feeling economic strain—prompting a new term, “Splendid daddies," for those who cut back spending on girlfriends.

  • [43:27] Quote (Max): "Even the Sugar Daddies are feeling the Squeeze...these men are feeling less wealthy… they're so cheap. Because, like, Splendid is kind of a crappier version of Sugar."

• Stacey's response is sharply critical—she frames this as yet another sign of persistent gender imbalances in economic opportunity and critiques media coverage that glamorizes women’s reliance on men’s money.

  • [44:18] Quote (Stacey): “For most of history, women's economic opportunities was attaching themselves in whatever way they could to a man...I find it a little distressing that that still exists."
  • [45:59] Quote (Stacey): "It's alarming that this is still a career path for women. I'm surprised and saddened that Bustle would cover this."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Government Shutdowns:

  • [07:21] Justin Wolfers: “Mostly politics...the reality is...if we think about macroeconomy, it's just not that big of a deal.”
  • [10:20] Wolfers: "If you remove the urgency, that then creates the possibility that this one actually runs on a whole lot longer."
  • [18:44] Wolfers: "We are using people as pawns in greater political games. And I've seen more of that since January of 2025 than I've ever seen in my life."

• On Trump and Crypto:

  • [26:23] Zeke Fox: "Within crypto, Sun is infamous… he loves publicity stunts."
  • [25:48] Fox: "Sun first invested $90 million in Trump coins, and then the lawsuit was paused..."
  • [36:55] Fox: "For this to be illegal, you'd have to prove that favors had been done in exchange for these payments..."

• On Gender and Economic Trends:

  • [44:18] Stacey: “I find it a little distressing that that still exists... the participation in the workforce has gone backwards recently... I just want to see women able to thrive in this economy.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Shutdown Student Voices: 03:51–06:26
• Govt. shutdown macroanalysis (Justin Wolfers): 06:38–20:02
• Crypto, Trump, Justin Sun saga: 22:31–40:43
• Sugar Daddy economic woes: 43:16–47:19

Tone, Style, and Closing Thoughts

Max and Stacey keep the tone lively, insightful, and irreverent—moving deftly from heavy policy analysis to pop-culture and business absurdities. They blend hard numbers with sharp wit, making the political and business maneuvering behind this week's headlines both accessible and sharply critical. Their coverage of gender and wealth in the “sugar daddy” story signals a thoughtful, feminist counterpoint to lighter business fare.

Best for:

• Listeners wanting context behind the government shutdown, including real impacts and hidden agendas
• Those curious about the entanglement of politics, crypto, and personal gain in the Trump era
• Anyone who likes their business journalism with both depth and a sense of humor

For additional story ideas or feedback, email everybodys@bloomberg.net