From First Audition to 150+ Game Credits: The Truth About Video Game VO with Ian Russell

Summary

Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott

Episode Summary

Episode: From First Audition to 150+ Game Credits: The Truth About Video Game VO with Ian Russell
Release Date: October 2, 2025
Guest: Ian Russell
Host: Marc Scott

---

Episode Overview

This episode features acclaimed voice actor Ian Russell, whose unconventional journey in voice acting—particularly within the video game industry—has led him from humble beginnings to more than 150 roles in over 100 games. Marc and Ian deliver an honest, practical, and inspiring deep dive into building a sustainable voiceover business with a focus on video game VO, covering the realities of breaking in, sustaining a career, and the truths behind the “hustle” necessary to succeed.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Starting from Scratch – Ian’s Unconventional Path (02:09–13:01)

• Pivoting Careers:
  • Ian shares how the 2008 credit crunch and family reasons led him to relocate to the U.S. and try voice acting after almost 30 years in finance. He describes this as his second big expatriation and entrepreneurial leap.
    • “I had a choice, seek employment or make my own. I decided that I would try making my own first.” — Ian [01:40]
• First-Year Hustle:
  • Ian’s start involved makeshift studio setups (USB mic, walk-in closet), limited knowledge, and mainly using casting sites.
    • “I put the computer and the microphone in a car … I basically lived in my walk-in closet for a year and a half.” — Ian [08:20]
• Geography & Opportunity:
  • Eye-opening realization early on: clients can be anywhere; first two gigs were for New York and New Zealand.
    • “I suddenly realized that geography is irrelevant … I do think that a lot of new talent, particularly here in the US, don't look outside of this continent.” — Ian [10:38]

2. Building Momentum – The Game Credits Explosion (14:06–19:25)

• Not a Linear Start:
  • Ian did not initially intend to focus on game VO; a turning point came with award nominations and wins.
  • “I got nominated for video game for a Warhammer game … and I cried.” — Ian [15:15]
• Strategic Rebranding:
  • After his first major win, Ian and his wife rebranded him as a “video game guy,” ramped up networking, training, and became sought-after in games.
    • “We started reaching out more about, ‘I'm a video game guy, I do video games.’ … Then, sort of the following year and the year after that … can't stop booking video games.” — Ian [17:09]

3. Awards & Credibility in VO – Value Beyond the Hardware (19:25–24:39)

• Marketing Leverage:

  • Having nominations and awards provides both external credibility and internal validation.
    • “Nominated six of the last seven years with two wins is a very concise way of saying I kind of know a little bit about what can deliver this.” — Ian [20:28]

• Industry Perceptions:

  • Discussion around the value (and cynicism) of awards, and how even nominations can open doors—mirroring wider entertainment industry trends.
    • “Isn't that how they're all introduced now? Right. When somebody's the headline in a movie it's, you know, the multi academy award winning…” — Marc [23:24]

4. Landing (and Keeping) Career-Making Roles (24:39–34:10)

• Origin of Vernon Locke – Payday Franchise:

  • Ian landed the role through a casting site; only five people auditioned.
    • “On the 2nd of November this year, that's the date I auditioned for Vernon Lock in 2015 … So I think I was the best of five bad people, I think.” — Ian [25:49]
  • Didn’t realize the significance of the game or character for several years; community engagement unexpectedly boosted his profile and led to recurring roles and industry events.

• Advice: Don’t Chase Only AAA Games:

  • Many now-classic, lucrative franchises started as indie titles. Don’t overlook the “next big thing.”
    • “We get our minds and our eyes set towards the AAAs … and sometimes I think that we do that at our own peril.” — Marc [28:31]
  • “Sometimes the ones that creep up on you … you just don’t know where it’s going to go.” — Ian [29:30]

5. Character Development & Acting Without Training (34:20–41:39)

• Process:
  • Character creation often starts from minimal information—picture, a few lines. Ian leans intuitively on stereotypes, improvisation, and experience.
    • “I think I’m an intuitive actor … Even if you get [a] pit so [audition], you often don’t have much to hang on to.” — Ian [36:16]
  • No classical training; childhood exposure to theater and years in community drama laid the groundwork.
    • “I probably get whatever I get from her genetically.” — Ian, about his mother’s theater background [40:00]

6. Indie vs. AAA Games – Where the Work Really Is (42:03–45:46)

• “Maslow’s Pyramid” and the Market:

  • AAA games are the tip—big budget, few opportunities for most actors. The bulk of casting (and global opportunity) is in the massive indie and smaller studio spaces.
    • “There are something in the region of 10,000 games released on Steam every year and three of those are AAA. That means there's 9,997 games that are not AAA.” — Ian [43:41]

• Advice: Indie opportunities outnumber AAA by orders of magnitude. Don’t ignore them.

7. Where Work Comes From & The Power of Visibility (45:46–53:37)

• Lead Generation:

  • All avenues—casting sites, IMDbPro, direct outreach, LinkedIn, game dev maps, X/Twitter, and database searches. Everything is a possible lead.
    • “If you have IMDb Pro … you can find video games in pre production. You can find out who the casting director of that video game is. And now you have a lead.” — Ian [45:46]
  • Massive web presence driven by spouse Sandra, who manages profiles across dozens of sites for maximum discoverability.
    • “My wife … is constantly, constantly looking for places to put my name because … the more likely a Google search will find you.” — Ian [50:27]

• Social Media’s Dual Role:

  • Both for networking/lead-gen and as a filter—clients may check if you behave professionally online.
    • “...as you move up … the probability that there’s someone going to check you out, that you are not acting like a numpty, increases.” — Ian [53:15]

8. Sustainable Habits, Hustle Mentality, and Practical Advice (54:52–65:30)

• Working with Directors & Training:
  • Even without acting school, working with respected directors and continuous learning is key.
    • “Go work with people A, that can cast you and B, that can teach you something about acting or about performing.” — Ian [55:03]
• Daily Practice:
  • Ian’s simple system: Each day, find 10 auditions, reach out to 10 new people, make contact with 10 people he knows.
    • “Find 10 people that I can audition for, find another 10 people I can reach out to and find another 10 people that I already know that I can say something to. And that’s it … Once you get right, it’s habit forming.” — Ian [64:12]
• Conversion Mentality:
  • Calculates audition “value” using conversion rates to motivate consistent effort, paralleling classic sales wisdom.
    • “When I step in the booth to do an audition, it's not worth nothing, it's not for free. It actually has a value.” — Ian [61:41]
• Secret Sauce:
  • There is no shortcut—sustained, focused, relentless hustle is the answer.
    • “The secret sauce? I work.” — Ian [62:35]
    • “Be good at what you do, but do it in front of more people.” — Ian [66:11]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On starting out:
  “I had a choice, seek employment or make my own. I decided that I would try making my own first.” — Ian [01:40]

• On realizing the business is global:
  “I suddenly realized that geography is irrelevant. There’s people everywhere.” — Ian [10:38]

• Early studio setup reality:
  “I basically lived in my walk-in closet for a year and a half.” — Ian [08:20]

• On the value of awards:
  “Nominated six of the last seven years with two wins is a very concise way of saying I kind of know a little bit about what can deliver this.” — Ian [20:28]

• Career-defining role through chance and hustle:
  “I think I was the best of five bad people.” — Ian [25:49]

• On market reality for VO actors:
  “There are something in the region of 10,000 games released on Steam every year and three of those are AAA.” — Ian [43:41]

• Formula for daily business growth:
  “Find 10 people that I can audition for, find another 10 people I can reach out to and find another 10 people that I already know that I can say something to.” — Ian [64:12]

• On what it really takes:
  “The secret sauce? I work.” — Ian [62:35]

---

Key Timestamps

• 01:40 – Ian on choosing to become a VO entrepreneur
• 08:20 – Building his first studio in a walk-in closet
• 10:38 – Early realization that VO is a global business
• 15:15 – First big game nomination and emotional impact
• 20:28 – Using nominations as a marketing tool
• 25:49 – Landing the Vernon Locke role for Payday
• 36:16 – Ian’s intuitive character development style
• 43:41 – Indie vs. AAA market size and opportunity
• 50:27 – Sandra’s impact on web presence/discoverability
• 53:15 – Why social media presence matters
• 55:03 – Investing in learning and training
• 61:41 – “Every audition has value”
• 64:12 – Practical daily habit formula
• 66:11 – Final advice: “Be good at what you do, but do it in front of more people.”

---

Final Thoughts

Ian Russell’s journey is a testament to resilience, entrepreneurship, and the practical reality of building a sustainable career in voiceover, especially video games. His willingness to take every odd job, his candid discussions on the necessity of relentless hustle, and insights on market strategy, training, and self-presentation are invaluable for every aspiring (or working) VO professional.

---

Hosted by Marc Scott. For VO coaching and more episodes, visit vopreneur.com.
Find Ian Russell across the web—thanks to Sandra’s tireless work!

Transcript

[A]

So I think I was the best of five bad people. But I don't have a very complex business plan and I basically live in my walk in closet for a year and a half now. It gets real. I have to earn enough money to do everything.

[B]

That is the secret sauce. And I think people need to hear that.

[A]

You're a voice actor, you're an entrepreneur, you're a veopreneur. Welcome to the Everyday Veopreneur podcast, your guide through the business of voiceover.

[B]

My goal is simple to I want the Everyday Veopreneur podcast to be the best voiceover podcast that's out there. And one of the ways I can do that is by getting access to the best possible guests. How do I do that? I need subscribers. So do me a favor, if you haven't done it yet, please subscribe wherever you're enjoying the podcast, whether that's on Apple, Podbean, Spotify, or YouTube. Make sure you hit that subscribe button. If I can show big audience numbers, I can get access to bigger guests.

[A]

Are you on the edge of your seat yet? You should be.

[B]

According to my unofficial data, 9 in 10 voice actors want to do video game work and that other one probably does on some level, but just hasn't admitted it to themselves yet. My guest today, with his extensive resume of both award nominated and award winning video game voice work, I think is just the person to guide us towards our goals. So welcome to the show, Ian Russell.

[A]

Oh, thank you, Mark. You're too kind.

[B]

I want to start in 2014 with you.

[A]

Oh, okay. I want to go back, assuming I can remember that.

[B]

I want to go back a little bit and I read something that you had said which was I had a choice, seek employment or make my own. I decided that I would try making my own first. Yeah, I want to hear about that story. And I would really love to hear about the mindset that you had at the time to approach the challenge of literally building something from nothing and doing it with a family.

[A]

Yeah. And in a country in which I knew nobody and knew nothing. What isn't often told in that story is that coming here and becoming a voice actor was my second expatriation and the second time that I'd gone somewhere where I didn't know anybody and didn't know anything about what I was doing and created a business. It wasn't the first time that I did that.

[B]

Must be a bit of a punishment.

[A]

But this time it was predicated on the fact that we'd had the credit crunch. I was working in almost 30 years in the finance business, working as a wealth manager, sales and all that. And you might remember the credit crunch and the banks and it wasn't a great business to be in. And eventually it got to a point where I said, I'm too old for this. I can't cope with everything, everything that's now being thrown at us that we had support to do previously and they'd got rid of all the people and almost American and her mom had passed away and her dad was in his 80s and it was like, well, let's, let's move and be closer to him in case he needs support. The bank gave me a little bit of money to go away to relieve them of the burden of having to deal with me. And you know, I, I volunteered as tribute, as they say, you know, fell on my sword and we came here and I had a choice, didn't I? I've got to go and do something, you know, One of the ideas was to go to the local Jaguar dealer and sell Jaguars to unsuspecting Americans, you know, and as, as my little story goes, hello, unsuspecting American do step into this two door British coupe, only quarter of a million dollars, won't miss it, and sell cars. I was going to get the very loud jacket to go with. I, I had been doing a little bit of workshopping in voiceover thanks to my wife's Christmas gift from a couple of years previously. Never even considered it as something that would earn money. And went to the guy there and said, does anybody get paid to do this? That's how naive I was about it, really.

[B]

There's a few, maybe just a few.

[A]

But yeah, right. As I now understand, there's the, it's the largest hidden mountain, you know, in the world almost. And he said, yes, people get paid. I said, would anybody hire me? He said, I don't see why not. And I said, okay, I need a demo. So we made a couple of demos and I moved to the States and started spinning the wheels and I gave myself a year. I wasn't, you know, so naive that I was just gonna keep throwing at it and until me and my family and everyone else was suffering interminably. So I spanned the wheel, I gave myself a year. I set my. A fairly modest financial target and if I meet that, then I'll extend the experiment. And then I did that. And then a second year and I set myself a higher target that still wasn't probably quite enough money really, but was getting close and I did that. And then Year three, I went, okay, now it gets real. I have to earn enough money to do everything. And I did that. And it's kind of crazy that you look back in my 12th year now and you're like, oh, I seem to have built a business somehow by hook or by crook. But it was so. It was born out of, you know, mother is the invention. What's that phrase? The something is necessity is the mother of invention.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

And so we had to do something. We decided to come here for personal family reasons, but that still meant I had to find work. And I decided to, okay, let's do that and see what happens. And year on year, I keep doing that to see what happens. And I'm still here.

[B]

There is something to be said for that. I don't know if desperation is the right word, but. No, probably, it probably is the right word, because I know that was when. When my last radio job came to an end in 2011, I was partway through the year. So I spent several months just, you know, kind of moping around, feeling sorry for myself, trying to figure out what my next move was. And by the end of that year, it had occurred to me that I was actually sustaining myself. I hadn't really thought about it.

[A]

You do. You kind of look back with surprise and go, oh, look how far I've come.

[B]

Now, granted, I was alone at the time. So single guy. And so I've always said, like, you know, I had that going for me. Right. Like, I can't imagine. I got a wife and four daughters now. I can't imagine trying to start this now with a. With a wife and four daughters. But at the same time, I could not see a scenario where I was going to allow myself to have to move back home. And so that became mom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that becomes incredibly motivating. Right. And you find a way to do what you've got to do. So I would love to hear a little bit more about what that first year looked like, because it's not like you're an industry expert at that point. Right. So you're trying to figure it all out. So what did that look like? Where did you all wrong, Mark?

[A]

I did it all backwards. That's the only way, I'm sure. So. Well, you know, I got my booth and room and all. Everything now, but. But then I bought an all in one computer.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

With all, you know, the CD drive and everything built in. I bought a USB microphone because that meant I didn't have to spend money on an interface.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, but you know, so it was all about the finance and nothing about the quality or whatever. And I put the computer and the microphone in a card. At least I had the scent. In this house that we had moved into up in the loft there was some old foam. It looked like mattress foam, I think.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I lined a cardboard box with that and put that in the walk in closet and put the USB microphone in that computer off to one side. And I basically lived in my work in my walk in closet for.

[B]

Year.

[A]

And a half, just. So were you doing spinning the wheels.

[B]

Casting sites at that point? Like doing online casting and stuff? Just auditioning your face off until.

[A]

Yeah, because I didn't know any better.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I had no idea.

[B]

I think if you go back into that, that time frame, I think that's probably what most of us were doing at that point who were starting out. Right. We were, we were auditioning our faces off on online casting.

[A]

Well, and don't forget, I live, I live in upstate South Carolina. They nothing here. I had to stop myself from swearing then for a minute, but you know, there was nothing. There's nothing here. There are a few studios here, but it's not a major market.

[B]

It's not a hot spot for.

[A]

It's not a major market. Yeah. So I had no choice. The Internet was my only way of doing business. See, I'm also British in the heart of southern Bible Belt, you know, South Carolina again. I mean, because you talk a lot about planting seeds in your own back garden. And I'm like, nobody's gonna hire me here. So I have to look outside.

[B]

Maybe that Jaguar dealer, but.

[A]

Well, ironically not Jaguar, but I have done work for a local car dealer anyway. And there is work, oddly enough, as it turns out, there is work here. I just didn't know how to look for it.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I'm quite fond of saying so. My first ever gig was a guy in New York. A five word radio drop for a guy. I probably got paid 50 or 100 bucks for it. I don't even remember. And this was the, the mind opening experience myself.

[B]

That was the proof of concept. I can actually make this work. I can actually.

[A]

Well, I'm not sure it was that. But what really opened my mind was that my second ever gig was for a mobile phone repair shop for their telephone answering system in New Zealand. They both begin with N, with new. So New York, New Zealand. And I've been doing business with people in between those two points ever since.

[B]

I suddenly realized that geography is irrelevant.

[A]

There's people everywhere And I do think that a lot of new talent, particularly here in the us, don't look outside of this continent. They think it's all here and there's just so, so much everywhere else in the world.

[B]

That's one of the things I have always said is your target market is anywhere in the world where your language is spoken.

[A]

Yeah. So I.

[B]

Whatever language that is.

[A]

And I. Yeah, so I didn't sow any seeds really locally much, but I sue them everywhere. So to them, sued them. So I didn't sue them. I sowed them everywhere else and started really, started searching particular cities, you know. Oh, well, this guy in Auckland hired me. Maybe there's someone else in Auckland that might hire me, you know, that sort of thing. So, so. And bit by bit, project by project, person by person, at the end of a year you've. I had, I don't know, I probably had 40 clients or something, you know, because you talk about the desperation, you know, that I've got a family, I've got kids, I've got a wife, I've got a house, I've got bills, I've got a car to run, all that. And again now, different. I have a different mind, slightly different mindset now. Not entirely, but I would pretty much have done anything for just about anyone in almost any genre in order to earn 50 bucks or 100 bucks or whatever just to keep. I would rather earn a little bit of money, even if it was not the right thing to do to get the money, because I needed the money.

[B]

You know, I think if any of us are being honest, that's in some version of. That is exactly how we started. I mean, I was the same way, right. I didn't know any better at the time. I was taking whatever job was thrown at me. And obviously over time, as I got better, as my business grew, as I started to figure things out, I was able to start to be a little bit more selective and whatever. But in the beginning, it's like I got bills to pay, I got a mortgage to pay.

[A]

And when you don't know any any better, it's not surprising that the big casting sites are where people end up. Because when you go on the Internet and search voiceover jobs or whatever, that's who you'll. That's who you see first. You. Oh, well, that's where I have to go then. That's what you do.

[B]

I know you may not necessarily want to think about it yet, but the reality is the holidays are approaching and they're approaching rather quickly. If you are looking for some fun and unique ways to market yourself this holiday season and to stand out from everybody else by things a little bit differently. I've got a special course you're definitely going to want to check out. It's called Cash in on the Holidays. In this one hour workshop, I lay out a bunch of different fun and unique ways that you can market yourself this holiday season. But you're going to want to start soon. This is not something that you're going to want to leave until December. So grab the course now. At Veopreneur.com, click on the store button. It's called Cash in on the Holidays. Start putting your ideas together so that when November rolls around, you are ready to hit the ground running. Check it out. Cash in on the holidays [e-mail] now back to our show. So now we're a few years down the road. You've worked on over a hundred games and done over 150 voices in those games, which is a pretty impressive career stat.

[A]

Yeah. And if you think it didn't start that way. Do you remember that's not averaged out, is it?

[B]

Do you remember the first game, first character? No.

[A]

I know what my first major character was, but I didn't know the first game I did. No idea.

[B]

Did you set out with an intention of I want to be a video game voice actor? Or was it one of these things where, wow, I'm. I seem to be booking a lot of these video games now. Maybe I should focus a little more there.

[A]

There was definitely a tipping point. We can talk about that if you want. That was. That was 2021.

[B]

Okay, tell me about it.

[A]

Well, I'll rewind to 2019 first, which is kind of where the story starts. So I've been doing this for four or five years and I put some work up for one Voice awards in the uk. You know, there wasn't a US Version at that time. And I got nominated for video game for a Warhammer game that I had done and I got nominated for voice of the year and I didn't even know because a lady rang me and said, congratulations. I'm like, on what? For your video game and voice of the year nomination. And I cried.

[B]

Feels good, right? Knowing where you started. And honestly, like 2019, that is not that far down the road.

[A]

I've been, what, five years? I guess five years in. And I said to my wife, I think I have to go. I think I have to fly to London because what if I don't think I'LL you know, I had no belief that I could win, but I have to go. I have to go. So I went. And that's kind of where the story. Because that opened that other door that, oh, wait, I have enough about what I'm doing that other people recognize as worthy whether you win or not. Actually, if you get nominated, other people have judged your work to be worthy enough.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So that's where that started. So then I started, okay, I'll do this a bit more. And the following year I won Voice of the Year, which is like mind blowingly surreal. But 2021 was Dallas and I had. So I talked about remembering my first major game, which was. Not that I knew it at the time, but it was the Payday franchise and it was a character called Vernon Locke, who's a South African mercenary. And I finally gathered the courage to put some work of his up for the Video game award. And I'm sat at the awards in Dallas. I've got Vince Labica sat next to me and I'm saying to him, if I could win any award, this would be the one that I would crave most. You know, that would build my ego, as it were. And he said, you could win it. And I'm like, look at the list of names. No way is that gonna be me. Anyway, my name came out the hat and I'm like, oh, goodness gracious me. I happen to have, you know. Anyway, so. So that was the tipping point.

[B]

I was talking about the tube.

[A]

This is where all this conversation started. And I sat down with my, my wife and we talked about it and we said, okay, we really need to make the best of this that we can. So we went through a fairly rigorous rebranding process. Now I'm still the British voice and they still have. You can still see the grayscale stuff. But we started reaching out more about, I'm a video game guy, I do video games. I went to every networky thing, conferency thing. I trained with all the video game people. I went to get your game on in la and just mixed with all of that, just immersed myself really. And then sort of the following year and the year after that, I'm just like, can't stop booking video games in 2022. I think I booked 30 or so in the first half of the year. It was just crazy. Now they're not the most valuable genre in the world, but for sure they're a lot of fun. And. And then you. And it's just like, it's a snowball. You Build a reputation with a studio. They pitch, they ship, work begins, work, right.

[B]

You prove yourself reliable.

[A]

And there's a studio in Poland. I've done a fair bit with them, and I'm sort of a fairly major character in one of their games. And I spoke to their community manager and I said, hey, I'd love to be in your other game. And they went, well, that's all cast. You know, there's. There's nothing there. Anyway, about two weeks later, I got audition notice from who does their casting for some little NPC roles. And I auditioned and I was cast. So, you know, I, you know, ask and ye shall receive, as it were. You know, that's the. That's the relationship. If you build the relationship, you can have those kind of conversations. I'd love to be in your next one, you know, and that puts the little seed. You talk about planting seeds, you're planting seeds in their head that, oh, wait, maybe Ian could be the old grumpy king in the corner. You know.

[B]

One of the things that I love about this is I've been a supporter of SOVIS from the very beginning. I thought that the idea of having our own awards show and giving recognition to people in the. In the community, I thought it was great. Now I see it from the standpoint of the marketing guy, obviously, but there was a lot of cynicism around the idea of the award show and all of that sort of stuff. And it really does feel like in some senses, the industry has divided into two camps of I am pro award show and I am anti award show. And those two camps fight each other like Republicans and Democrats or something, almost. But your story is exactly why there is value in these award shows and the recognition that you get as a result of that and how you can, if you choose, you can lean into that and leverage that.

[A]

What do you think I should turn that into something? Yeah. My main thing now is not that I wonder, but I've been nominated in six of the last seven years, and that's key. When I'm approaching a video game developer, someone I don't know, or a cast or whatever, I want them to know that I have consistently produced for other video game people. And that's one way of describing it. You could put a big long list of credits, you know, whatever it is, 100 and some games and 200 and some characters, and that's great too. But nominated six of the last seven years with two wins is a very concise way of saying I kind of know a little bit about what can deliver this. So if you put your trust in me, it's a. And if you think about this as you go up the pyramid, the amount of money that is at stake for a video game development company is just eye watering. Everything's at stake pretty much. And even for a smaller studio, when they ship their game, they've spent all the money pretty much. And if the game doesn't sell, they're dead in the water because that's their revenue stream.

[B]

There's just this instant credibility that comes with. I mean award nominated gives you a level of credibility. Award winning gives you another level of credibility. Multi award winning or multi nominated gives you a whole other level of credibility. And when you're talking to people who otherwise probably have no idea who you are, I mean think about yourself in how you interact with businesses, service providers, et cetera. Like are you, are you going to the one that has the no star reviews or the one that has the five star reviews or.

[A]

You know what I mean as well, Mark, is that there's an internal self worth that I'm not even sure we honestly recognize very often that something like that does. You can look at it, I have mine.

[B]

We are the most self conscious bunch of people in the world. Right. With just filled with self doubt and.

[A]

Broke my ego guy, you know, I.

[B]

Mean, yeah, no, I totally get that there's a. The legitimacy isn't just for other people. It's for us just as much to be able to say holy crap.

[A]

But I'm not sure it's very popular thing to say. I won it, therefore it made me feel good.

[B]

Yep, that's exactly how I felt like when I got my. I've never won yet but I've had a couple of nominations and it felt to me like okay, that's credibility. Like you're just give yourself a break now, you can do this, you're good at this or whatever.

[A]

And I don't know, things like IMDb that's on there and you know, you go look at an actor and you scroll down and very often you'll say well what awards have they won?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

What work have they done that's been recognized and all of that.

[B]

Isn't that how they're all introduced now? Right. When somebody's the headline in a movie it's you know, the multi academy award winning.

[A]

Well, it's interesting. There was a film called the Dig. This is another flavor of this. Why did I start doing this? And it's got Carey Mulligan and Ralph Fiennes in it. I Think it is.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And they are both introduced on screen in the credits as Oscar nominated.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And not one Oscar nominated. And yet that gives them a headlining.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Credit. And, and you know, we, we're in an industry that is somewhat driven by that. That shiny glossy thing. You know, why do the major TV networks stream the BAFTAs and the Oscars and so on? We all. That we're in a. We're in a culture of celebrity in that sense. And, and the glossy, flashy, all that is part of that.

[B]

And that's it. It's just playing the game. Right. It's. It's playing the game the way the, the entertainment industry. Right. We sometimes think of voiceover industry, but it like we're part of the entertainment industry and this is how the entertainment industry plays the game.

[A]

I won't deny winning. Winning video game was just like I say, it was a pivotal for me, a pivotal moment and I'm very proud of it. Now I don't rub it in people's faces, but it's absolutely a part of my marketing.

[B]

Yeah. Why wouldn't it be?

[A]

You know, and almost strategically so. So I now have. So I've. I don't want to talk about it too deeply, but there are certain things that if I can achieve, they'll adjust my marketing. So I'm strategically thinking about that, about how do I. Which piece of work is going to help me get to that next bit.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So talk about. You said it's Vernon Locke, right? That was the role. So I recently had Andy Field on the show and Andy talked about. Yeah, he talked.

[A]

We have a lot of parallels, Andy and I.

[B]

Five Night at Freddy's. Right. And at the time having no idea what that even having no idea how that was ultimately going to impact his career. So is. Is Vernon, is that the role for you? Yeah, that's the role. So where did that come from?

[A]

Voices.com voices.com exactly the same as him. On the 2nd of November this year. That's the date I auditioned for Vernon lock in 2015. It's. So it's 10 years.

[B]

10 years of doing that role in.

[A]

A bit over a month. And it's grown to the point he was talking about, you know, personal appearances, by the way. I listened. Cause I was curious to the podcast you had with Andy and I made two pages of notes. It was great chat for me anyway, really.

[B]

I mean that guy knows what he's doing. He is coming at it from every angle and he's definitely thought it through.

[A]

And Locke is. I Have another one? Yeah, I can't go there quite yet. But anyway, I have other stuff that's going to make personal appearances a more. I'm gonna have to do that.

[B]

Tell me about the game and about the role.

[A]

Werner Locke, he speaks like this. He's a supposedly South African mercenary. And the original audition notice said mercenary. South African mercenary. Even I think it said. It didn't say what game it was. It was a modest budget, but I'm not South African. But I'm like, I'll give that a go. This is the desperation. I'll have a go at anything now. The voices.com platform is such that if you want you can go back and look. So that's why I know it's November 2nd, because I've been back to look. Because, you know, on I think it's the 8th of November, I'm gonna hold my first ever streamly autograph signing thing as part of the 10th anniversary celebrations of Locke being in game for 10 years. And there were five people that auditioned for that role. So I think I was the best of five bad people, I think. And I had no idea. It was another two years later before I even knew it was Payday.

[B]

Is it an independent game? Is it a big studio game? I legitimately, I don't. I should have, I should have researched this a little bit better.

[A]

But it's a Swedish game developer called Starbreeze.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They're very big in Sweden. I'm not sure I would quite call them aaa, but AAA aspiring anyway. They both make and publish games and Payday and Payday 2, which is where Locke was most present, had a game playing community somewhere in the region of 9 or 10 million players worldwide.

[B]

I think that's the other fascinating thing about this is we get our minds and our eyes set towards the AAAs, right? We want something that's on, that's with Blizzard or whatever name the studio. And sometimes I think that we do that at our own peril for people who are wanting to get into this industry. Just that overlooking some of the other stuff that might be out there. Like, you know, I'm sure when Five Nights at Freddy's was originally released on an independent platform like Steam, like nobody had any idea what it was going to become. And now it's a billion dollar franchise. And like Andy said, he's like, I get to be a part of that. And he's been a part of it for a number of years now. And so keeping an open mind about all of these different opportunities because you Never know which one of those roles or which one of those games is going to be the one that's going to hit, that's going to resonate, that's going to open up the door to do cons or all of these other revenue streams or whatever. Right.

[A]

I've been talking to my wife about this. I have a title, it's called Linked Banner of the Spark and I play a German robot chef in it. I mean with a sort of made up language. But there are people involved in it that know other people. And I'm like, I don't know where this game's gonna go, but it could go all the way because of the people that are involved.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And I just don't know. I think it could be a creeper. But anyway, yeah, so, so, so Vernon Locke. So it was another two years before I even knew it was payday. I've got an email saying, come on, do this charity thing that we're doing on whatever it was. I'm like, do I have to fly somewhere? Do I have to wear a suit with a black tie? You know, charity event or I have to sit at it? What, what is it? Well, because it's an online Internet. I had no idea.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So then they have me on and I'm chatting away and it's very clear that I know nothing about the game. Absolutely nothing. It's a bank heist game four. It's a co op player. Four guys, they wear a mask and they run into a bank or a jewelers or some of the mobsters hideout and they steal whatever it is they've been sent to steal. It's like kind of Charlie's Angels almost, you know. Anyway, so, so suddenly and the, the community went wild for it. They loved the fact that they were able to inform me about this game. They, they loved the fact that, you know, and, and then we, they were, wait a minute, you're not South African, you're British. Yeah. What other accents do you do? Then I'm like, well if you've done the research, you can see that I do a fair number. And so I took them on a little tour around the British Isles of accents around the British Isles. And their charity stream blew up with people going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then, I don't know, metaphorically, five minutes later, Starbreeze were on the phone going, we need to have a chat with you. Oh dear, what did I do wrong? And it turns out that the guy who was the main operator in the game was an employee at Starbreeze, and he'd left and gone somewhere else. And they needed someone to become the main operator of the game. And I'm convinced in my own mind that the positive reaction that the community had to that stream contributed to the decision to take Locke, who was a once and done guest contractor, and bring him into the fold as the main contractor. That led another couple of years later to a flight to Barcelona for a week to be in a cut scene filming with Mira Furlan, who was in Lost, and Babylon 5 filming with Damien Poitier, who was the original Thanos.

[B]

Just real actors opens up the doors. And I'm like, oh, my God, just have no idea. Right?

[A]

No idea. And so it's gone on. And here we are ten years later, and I can't. I thought Locke's time was gonna come when they launched Payday 3 and he was no longer the main contractor. But another two years later and other stuff is happening that I can't talk about surrounding Locke. And it's just.

[B]

It's so hard to interview you video game guys in your NDAs that last for years on end.

[A]

There's a Warhammer animation, which has just come out. Episode three drops a week on Wednesday. I'm allowed to say I'm in it, but I'm not allowed to say what character I am yet. And this is two years in the making.

[B]

It's gotta be hard to sit on some of that stuff. Right. Like, I feel like at some point I would just want. I'd be bursting. Like, I just.

[A]

I am for this. I am bursting at the seams. Absolutely. Day to day. I don't think about it because you're. You're focused on what you've got to do today.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You know, and then something will be. There'll be something crop up and you'll go, I wish I could.

[B]

Oh, I just want to be able to say it.

[A]

Not again. Because of the whole. Well, maybe partly because of the ego thing, but. But also because some of these things are important to say because they open other doors.

[B]

Well. And that's it. Right. The credits are where that opens up. Particularly, it seems, in video games, the credits can certainly be keys to unlock.

[A]

But yeah, I think in. And I think in animation, at the dramatic end of the market, in video games, audio product, audio dramas, all that kind of thing. Definitely that goes on.

[B]

Let's talk about character development, because I think that's one of the most fascinating parts of this. Talking to video game people, animation people as well. And it's A whole different world where you have to tap into your acting ability. And we mentioned off the top, you've done 150 plus roles or whatever it is. I would love to hear a little bit more about. What does that development process look like for you when a spec lens in your inbox?

[A]

Well, often if you're lucky, there might be a picture.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There might be a paragraph of character description and probably three lines and that gives you something to hang on to. More often there's no picture. It'll be male British, 50 year old king.

[B]

It's like as good as commercial specs sometimes, you know.

[A]

And so I guess you to some extent you lean into obvious stereotypical versions of, you know, when you've got those three lines and those three words, you know, and sometimes the words themselves lead you a certain way.

[B]

I'm not gonna lie, when you, when you said that Vernon Locke was a South African mercenary, my mind immediately went to Lethal Weapon 2. I don't know if you've ever seen Lethal Weapon 2.

[A]

A long time ago.

[B]

Yeah. Mel Gibson right there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The bad, I'm pretty sure it was Lethal Weapon 2 where all the bad guys were South Africans. And that's like, I don't know, that's just where my mind goes. Right. And so is it, is there ever that like you see something and it takes you back to oh, that person in a movie or that person in a, in a book I read or that person.

[A]

Yeah. And I think as a, as an actor now I don't have formal acting training, so that whole, you know, making notes and intentions and context and all of that, I don't really do that. I think I'm an intuitive actor.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think. And the other thing you have to be good at with video games, as with so many other things, you've got to be able to improvise, think on your feet. Because even, even if you get pit so audition, you know, like you don't often don't have much to hang on to, so you just go with what pops into your head, you know. And you know, oh, this is a, it's a wizard. So he's a wizard. So you know, bit Gandalf. Like, you know, he's a, he's a bad guy. So a bit Alan Rickman from Die Hard. Like. Yep, you know, that sort of. Or you know, Harry Potter you lean into. Well known because in all probability the majority, especially in the indie world, you would come back to it. But the whole triple A versus the rest, they probably haven't in in many senses, done the kind of character development that you might think that they have as well.

[B]

They're probably thinking similar frames of reference.

[A]

Would be very, like. Right, very likely, you know, and they are. Most, most smaller development companies are outsourcing a lot of writing. So they're not writing it themselves. They're the techie people. They can code and they can make arms move and things like that. And in terms of actors, a lot of them, they hire people and they've never hired an actor before. They've made a game. It's going to be Dungeons and Dragons, and they need a wizard. And, well, wizards are all grumpy old British blokes, aren't they? Or they need a dwarf. Well, that's a little Scottish bloke, isn't it? You know, so that does. You do lean into that a fair amount. If there's a picture, if there's a bit more, then obviously you can. You can do that. And if there is that, then I will spend a little time. I will always, always read everything they send. Sometimes they'll give you a YouTube link to something like this, and I will always go and watch that. So whatever they give you as a frame of reference, I will absolutely use.

[B]

You mentioned that you're not a classically trained actor, but obviously you're involved heavily and succeeding quite well in a space that is. I mean, it leans on acting more than some of the. Many of the other genres. Is there anything that you do now, like, you mentioned improv, the importance of improv. Do you. Do you do or have you done improv training or, you know, are you just. I mean, you say you're intuitive.

[A]

I have. I have kids, Mark.

[B]

Bedtime stories. There's always some improv going on there.

[A]

You know, I think I am the classic embodiment of. I was the dad, I did silly voices with the kid. I did, you know, when I read the bed, I did all the silly voices around the dinner table, you know, all that kind of thing. And that's, in some sense, is what led Sandra to buying me the workshop experience in the first place. Now, the other bit is. That's not so widely talked about from me or anyone else really about me is very young. I was exposed to the theater very young. My mother was a enthusiastic amateur or community theater actress, director, writer. She did everything. So I probably get whatever I get from. From. From her genetically. My first waking memory. And. And it's. It's. It's a nice story to tell because I'm now an actor, but my first waking memory, you know, living memory is more smell than sight, actually. But I'm backstage at the theater that my mother inhabited, and it's that slightly damp, musty wood smell that you get when wood's, like, been stored. It's that sort of smell. And then there's an archway. So I'm in the dark looking out to a lit stage. There's nothing on the stage and then darkness beyond. But it's the smell that I get goosebumps thinking about it even now. So. So there was her. And then after university, I joined a local community theater myself and I ended up helping run it for best part of 10 years. So I'm not a classically trained actor, but I walked the boards for a decade. So, you know, there's some background that's not obvious at first sight.

[B]

I have read Grover's. There's a monster at the end of this book in more unique ways than I think probably any other person has on Earth. Right. And so it's true how, how something like being a dad can, can play into that. And I remember talking with Matt Fogarty. I had him on the podcast. He does a lot of imaging, but he, you know, we, we talked about that. He said the same thing. It's like bedtime stories with my kids.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Some of the best acting in, in improv training that you can get.

[A]

If you're making your kids laugh, you know, you're doing something right.

[B]

You know, so we've, we've kind of hinted around it a little bit, but let's, let's get into AAA versus indie. And what are, what are some of those distinct differences? And why do you not want to overlook indie?

[A]

So most of us are familiar with Maslow's Pyramid of needs, right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So if you hold that picture in your head and the AAA are the very tiny point at the top of that pyramid.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And whilst, you know, Baldur's Gate, Call of Duty, whatever, they're multi billion dollar franchises. Think about it. Who were they going to hire to be the lead in their next big. It ain't even going to be me, probably. It's going to be probably someone in LA or London, depending on what they're looking for. Probably you have to go in the studio every week for three years. You know, it's someone who. It's a, it's a Troy Baker, it's a Nolan north, it's a, you know, it's one of these guys. All girls. So if that's the case and there are something in the region of 10,000 games released on Steam every year and three of those are AAA. That means there's 9,997 games that are not AAA, that not all, but a good chunk want people to help populate their game. So why should you not ignore it? Because it's a multi billion billion billion dollar business bigger than film and TV put together and it's on our doorstep everywhere.

[B]

And you might land the next payday or five nights.

[A]

Well, you know, you've got. You're right, it's a little side note but because of my background in finance. Why do we call them aaa?

[B]

Well those are the best rated bonds right there.

[A]

Mark. There's no judgment as to what makes a computer development company aaa. They've borrowed I believe that term from the finance market. This is.

[B]

It's an aura about it that, well.

[A]

It'S the most likely to return your money at the end. When a AAA launches a game, ships a game, the probability of people not buying it is tiny. Anyway, that's an aside but yeah, AA large industry studios, there's plenty of studios that are making great games that people love. They might not have a 50 million player audience, but Payday has a 10 million community. You know, they have maybe a smaller community but very loyal, very dedicated.

[B]

That's something I have noticed. Very loyal. So where is the work coming from for you now? Is it still voices.com auditions? Are you mining Steam? Have you just built enough of a network now that you've got connections? Is it a combination?

[A]

You will not be surprised to hear all of the above.

[B]

All of the above.

[A]

I don't mind Steam so much. I'll tell you what, if you have IMDb Pro, so you do have to pay for it to get access to it. But IMDb, the DB is database, we tend to pigeonhole it as a film and TV place or as a place where we can look at our credits strike ourselves right. But guess what, you can click the right buttons and you can search down. You can find video games. You can find video games in pre production. You can find out who the casting director of that video game is. And now you have a lead.

[B]

Is that who you're reaching out to primarily looking for primary?

[A]

I don't think anything is primarily though. It's whatever is there.

[B]

Because the development company could literally be like one guy in mom and dad's basement, right?

[A]

It could be, it could be. There's a. There's another thing called game dev maps I think and it's a map of the world with lots of little Red dots on it and you press on the red dot and it brings you. It's a database with a map at the front of it and you press on the dot and it brings up a list of video game developers in that city. There are databases, information everywhere. I mean, I know you talk about Google, you know you want 5 million results put in, explain the video and whatever it is, but it's the same for everything. That's the whole thing. New York, New Zealand, everywhere. There's work everywhere. You've just got to be willing to get up in the morning and sit in front of your computer and do the hustle. You've got to spin the wheel.

[B]

How much does social media factor in on this? Because I feel like there's pretty active gaming communities on social media. Is it an active community for building relationships or is there some lead generation and data mining done there too?

[A]

Yeah, all of the, you know, all of the. I'm not trying to be obtuse here. It's just like there's a balloon, pop it, see what's inside. It's everywhere. There are, I would say even now Twitter X is probably where gamers hang out more than other places. They'll put casting notices up. There are people who have built sites that, that try to attract all the castings into one place so that if you follow that and get notifications for that, you get castings pop up in your Twitter feed or Blue sky is. The Twitterati that didn't like Twitter anymore have largely gone to Blue Sky. So same thing as being replicated on Blue sky. I still LinkedIn. I connect with developers on LinkedIn and develop conversations there. In that sense, it really is no agents, specialist casting people. Mark Grau Recording Studios in LA does a lot of casting, but you kind of. It's not. Those are not necessarily the easiest places to find. It's the indie market on social media that's really easy to find.

[B]

One of the things that I noticed about you when I was doing some research for this interview, I don't, I don't think that I have ever seen a voice actor with their name and their demos and more profiles on more sites on the Internet than I came up with for you really. And there was part of it that was like, this is fascinating. There's a part of it that's like, okay, but none of this is helping me research for this. But I was like, you are. I don't think there is a voiceover related side on the Internet that you are not on. Like, that's the way it felt as I was going through all of these Google results.

[A]

Well, you can thank my web developer for that.

[B]

Like, this is a guy who hustles.

[A]

Yeah, well, and my wife, to be fair. So there's a part of this puzzle which involves my wife. I'm not only did she buy me the workshop all those years ago back in 2014, but when Covid hit, her work contract wasn't renewed. So we lost her income and she was like rattling around, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? And I said, well, come help me in the business do stuff that I'm not so keen on doing, like posting on social media, like keeping profiles on the Internet and blah, blah, blah. And if we can increase the turnover of the business by as much or more than you were earning at the college, then you never have to go and find a job because you can work in the business. And that's exactly what happened. So all those profiles and that a lot of that work is, is my wife has done that and she is constantly, constantly looking for places to put.

[B]

My name because I don't know if there's any left. I'm pretty sure from what I've done, you can tell her that she has done the most efficient job of putting you out there that I have ever seen. Because it was just pages and pages and pages and sites that I had never heard of that I had no idea existed. I was like, this guy is everywhere.

[A]

Well, reflected glory to Sandra. That's probably mostly her. And, and the, and the point there is that if you have a profile, more profiles you have, the more likely a Google search will find you in relation to something and pop you up in someone's.

[B]

All the back lyrics and. Yeah, right. So I mean, I have, I don't.

[A]

Get work from them all, don't think they all.

[B]

But, but that's not where the, that's not where the ultimate value comes from. Right. The ultimate value is all the backlinks, the credibility, the fact that you literally come up in so many different search results and that, that lens. If I do a search and I find a voice actor who comes up three times and a voice actor who comes up 400 times, I'm not going to look at those sites. I'm just going to assume this guy must be legit. He's on 400 different sites.

[A]

I had a lead last week came in. It was a direct email. He had found me on another site, was looking for a Brit to do to replace another Brit that they'd used For a long time. And this is, you know, classic. You know, we're just. Someone's come in and done a bit of a refresh, let's use a different voice and. But they still wanted British and they found me and, but they found me somewhere else and instead of going through that site, they then came and approached me direct. Cut out the middleman. And I'm sure part of that is what you're saying is that just everywhere, you're just everywhere, there is no escape.

[B]

I have said many times I'm not the most gifted voice actor, but I'll out hustle you. And I think there's something to be said for that and I think your story proves that. I mean, obviously you're incredible at what you do, but you're hustling like you're out there every day finding the opportunities, creating the opportunities, making the connections, whatever.

[A]

That is, just never know. You just never know what's going to happen next. Someone you haven't spoken to in years suddenly pops up, but you know you had connected with them five years ago. That happened on LinkedIn last week. I, not that, not that they messaged me, but I saw a post that they had made looking for a British voice actor for something quite a narrow niche. And so I went to the message, found that I was connected from like five or six years ago and went, oh, blah, blah, blah, saw your post, blah, blah, blah, maybe I might be a fit for you, whatever. And then we moved that to email and we're talking and you know, we just never know when this stuff's gonna raise its, its, its head. So social media. Yeah. So for video games, just to reflect back on that, for video games, one of the important things about social media is that as you move up, as you get into those larger studios, the probability that there's someone going to check you out, that you are not acting like a numpty increases. Yes. So having a positive social media presence is an important thing when you are going to be involved in something which is heavily public facing.

[B]

That just makes me smile just because I think about having recently talked to Kelly Mashinsky, for example, casting director, and she's talking about how she's got on average 600 auditions come in and she's, you know, gotta have filters to narrow that down. And your social media could very well be the filter that narrows you down. And so sometimes it's not even that there's massive competition out there, you just have to not be an idiot online. And that could literally be the thing that get Particularly in an industry like video games. So talk to the voice actor who's listening right now who wants to do video games. And they're trying to figure this out. And I love your story because you did it all unconventionally. You just did it all unconventionally and made it work through pure hustle and determination and grit, it feels like. But to that voice actor who's trying to figure this out, what are one or two pieces of advice that you would give them to help them find a little bit of direction or a little bit of motivation to press on?

[A]

So I'm not a formally trained actor, I've talked about that. But I must have some natural ability.

[B]

Something's working there, you know, I must have something.

[A]

But if that, you know, I do think that working with people who are directors, not only do you get your face and your voice in front of them, but you learn about acting by working with directors. So do that. And when I was talking about my rebranding, that was one of the things. I worked with Kim Herdon, I worked with Randall Ryan, I worked with Andrea Toyes, I worked with Tom Keegan. I sought people out who not only were casting but were well respected and I felt could give me something that I didn't already have. So, so do that. Go, go work with people A, that can cast you and B, that can teach you something about acting or about performing or go and be a community actor. Go and tread the boards. Do that stuff. Yeah, people talk about improv, so the improv people, go learn about comedy. I don't think I'm a particularly great comedic actor, but again, treading the boards. I was in panto in the uk, which is all about making people laugh in any way you can find. Break the fourth wall. The funniest thing that ever happened in panto to me. Well, no, maybe the second funniest thing, but one of the most things was I was playing a villain in panto and this four year old kid boy came running onto the down to the front there and like this, I'm gonna.

[B]

Get you, I'm gonna get you.

[A]

And I'm like, what do I do? You know, I meant to be the villain, blah, blah, blah. So I played the coward, I played the cowardly and I ran away and ran up. So this was like the audience was up like bleachers away from the stage and we were down. So I ran up the stairs where he had come from, looking for his for protection, you know, just making it up as you go along.

[B]

Yeah, that's on the spot.

[A]

Out of. Right. I. There was a moment where I had. I don't know what to do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then inspiration and make people laugh.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So make people laugh. And even if you're working with someone in the studio and it's a very serious thing, be prepared to be as relaxed as you can. And I know it's a stressful situation. I know that. And I get, I think, you know, a decade later. I'm better at that now. Comfortable in my own skin, if you like, as a. As an actor that I'm much more willing to be much more of me than perhaps I might have been the first year. Try and be as much of you as you can in that very unusual environment. That's the relationship bit.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

So do that.

[B]

I know that you have started speaking at some conferences. I know you were just at One Voice in Dallas. I've seen that you've done some workshops and things like that in the past. So obviously you've hit a point where you're able to give back a little bit, which is really cool when you reach that point in your career where people want to learn from you or you feel like you have something to teach or something of value to offer. So talk about what you've got going on right now on that side. If somebody's interested in learning a little bit more or working with you or doing a workshop or something like that.

[A]

Yeah. Where this comes from is throughout my entire career, I've ended up either being a teacher very early on in a high school or in a sales environment. And they sent you away and you broke into teams and then you had to come back and present. I was always the person who had to do the presenting at the end. I enjoy it. It's a weird, you know, kind of self inflicted misery almost, but so. But I have no desire. I've got a busy voiceover business. I have no desire to have a coaching business as well. I guess I could, but I've no right now anyway, I have no desire to do that. But I do get. I do want to scratch the itch once in a while, which is why I put myself out onto the conference circuit. So I get to scratch that itch a little bit. I'm doing something with Christy Bowen in October and that'll be. So I'm not a trained actor, so I don't believe I can teach people act. I'm not a demo producer, I'm not a performance coach. But I do have this 30 year business career. So I do talk about that when I Talk generally, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. What you can do to find work, how you can use the Internet to your advantage, how you can, you know, go and chat to people and network, all that kind of thing. I do talk.

[B]

That's the stuff people really want to know about.

[A]

But it's not sexy. It's not, it's not the glossy bit.

[B]

No, they, what they want you to say is, look, if you just do this one thing, you will open up the waterfall of work. And the reality is if you do these 500 things consistently every day over time for years on end, the waterfall open up.

[A]

That's the secret sauce. There's nothing else. And I'm in my 60s, you know, and I, and I still get up every morning with a drive to go and see what I can find. Because the one thing about marketing is that there's always something new to find. It's quite fascinating to, you know, well, clearly, you know, self help book, there's libraries full of these things trying to show you how, where, what the secret sauce is. And I actually don't really. It's. So here's one thing I do talk about. Time versus money.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

When we go to work in the morning for an employer, we exchange our time for money. When you are a freelancer, you have time but no money. So you have to find someone who is willing to exchange your time for some money. And you've got to work all the marketing stuff, we don't get paid for doing that. I play a little mental trick. I always know within a bit what my conversion rate is. It's about one in 50 thereabouts. I know what my average case size is and if I divide my average case size by 50, that tells me how much every audition I do is worth.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. That means when I step in the booth to do an audition, it's not worth nothing, it's not for free. It actually has a value. And that, that's something that, that helps to keep me moving forwards. Smile, you know, cold calling. Smile while you dial all that. You know, pick up the phone. Actually don't put the phone down, keep it held and just dial the next number. All the, I'm old enough to have done that.

[B]

So you can be more efficient. Right. Every time you hang up, you lose 10 seconds.

[A]

Well, there's a psychological thing that it's actually very difficult to pick up the phone the first time.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So don't put it down because it's harder to pick it up than it is Just to dial the next number, like psychologically anyway, all that stuff, so.

[B]

Much of it is a mental game.

[A]

So back to the thing for what should people do? I mean, you know, I don't think that there is someone asked, you know, what's your secret secret sauce? I work.

[B]

That is the secret sauce. No, that is the secret sauce. And I think people need to hear that because I think we want something easier than that because work is hard.

[A]

There's always the story of being discovered and Kate Moss walking down a London high street or whatever. There are always that. But the reality is the probability of that happening to you, you or me or anyone listening is minute in the extreme.

[B]

You are much more likely to get discovered if you're doing the work and getting the credits and. Right.

[A]

Gotta keep putting yourself in front of people and suddenly one of those people. And we also know the entertainment business is very, you know, once they've used you once breaking through the door requires absolutely the hustle. The hustle. Hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. Getting in the room with people is the next step. Showing them like trailers, you know, you did scratching, pitching for trailers, doing it for nothing. Because eventually, eventually they'll come and they'll hire you for something. And once they've hired you once, they'll come and use the golden handcuffs once they've, once they've got you. And it's the same with everything, whether it's video games, animation, anything else. It is definitely about finding the people. People doing good work, being consistent, being able to re. If you send something to them that they can hear, you best be able to reproduce it. When you get inside the studio with them, all that stuff, real basic, probably basic stuff. But just do all of that.

[B]

Sometimes we just need to hear it over and over again to be reminded that it is maybe we do actually. True. Yeah.

[A]

I set myself very simple. I don't have a very complex business plan really on a day to day basis. Find 10 people that I can audition for, find another 10 people I can reach out to and find another 10 people that I already know that I can say something to. And that's it's that about it.

[B]

It's not easy, but it's that simple.

[A]

But it's a simple thing to hang on to, to say, have I done these 10 things? It's really not. It's an easy thing to keep a hold of and you don't have to write it down constantly to remember it. And it just. Once you get right, it's habit forming.

[B]

Yep. Turn it Into a habit, you know? Yep.

[A]

So sorry I haven't got something more.

[B]

This is exactly magic one day. Exactly what people need to hear, you know, so.

[A]

And if you want to be in video games, do what I did and absolutely focus on it, but learn to be a bit of an actor. I think I had to learn to be a bit more of an actor. I was like intuitive actor. I think I still am that. But having worked with a bunch of people in video games and animation all over the place. And since then, I do think that there is something to be said for learning your craft, as the saying goes.

[B]

Well, Ian, this has been. This has been a master class. I know you say you don't want to teach or you don't want to coach or whatever, but I got to tell you, you just did for now.

[A]

Oh, thank you, Mark. That's. That's very kind of you.

[B]

So thank you for. Thank you for that. And I know there are going to be a lot of people that are going to appreciate this who are trying to. Trying to crack that video game nut. And I think this last 10 minutes or so is probably some of the best stuff. It's the stuff that they're not going to want to hear as much because it's where the work actually gets involved.

[A]

But yeah, this is it.

[B]

This is. This is how it's done. Right. So thank you for your honesty.

[A]

Comes back into when I was in sales and big neon light. See more people. Yep, that's it.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

Be good at what you do, but do it in front of more people.

[B]

I appreciate that honesty, Ian. Thank you.

[A]

You're very welcome. In terms of what I'm doing next, I mean, watch me on Instagram. It'll be on there. Probably my wife will post it.

[B]

I better be careful. But for as good of a job as she is clearly doing and getting you online, I think she might be. It might be time for a raise.

[A]

So you.

[B]

You have to more.

[A]

Don't be saying that.

[B]

I'm going to cut that part into a short clip and I'm going to send it to her.

[A]

She said it might be time for raise the other day and I said, but all the money is all ours. Don't worry about it. Really.

[B]

I love it. Well, thank you so much. I really do appreciate it.

[A]

You're very welcome. Until next time, I guess. The Everyday Veopreneur podcast available everywhere. Find podcasts or give away for free mostly. We think having your voiceover demos easily.

[B]

Playable and downloadable on your website is essential. The Voicezam player lets you do that across any device and browser. There are also options for adding play.

[A]

Buttons in your email signature, tracking your listens, and even putting videos in your demo player.

[B]

Sign up [e-mail] markscott and receive an instant $25 credit. For full details and to claim this offer, visit voicesam.com markscott and scene.

[A]

And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for hanging out. Want more? Veopreneur Goodness. Jump online at veopreneur. Com.