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Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott
How Monsters Get Their Voices: Inside the World of Creature VO with Sébastien Croteau
01:06:35
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- [00:00]
A
Every experience we have with vocal distortion is a negative one. I remember I had blood in my saliva. At the end of the second day, you have to be able to sustain the vocal effect for the duration of the recording session. Otherwise you just gave them the perfect reason to go back to Animal sound library. If you lose the vocal effect, you lose the character. You know, I found out fast that 8 hours was too much. You're a voice actor, you're an entrepreneur, you're a veopreneur. Welcome to the everyday Veopreneur podcast, your guide through the business of voiceover.
- [00:35]
B
I'm 300 plus episodes into the everyday Veopreneur podcast now and I have one quick favor to ask. If you've enjoyed any of those 300 plus episodes, do me a favor and take a minute to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening, Apple Podcasts, drop it on a comment on YouTube, leave it on Spotify, Podbean, wherever. Leave that review and let me know you're enjoying the everyday Veopreneur podcast.
- [00:58]
A
Are you on the edge of your seat yet? You should be.
- [01:01]
B
A lot of voice actors dream about being a character in a video game. It's one of the most common voiceover dreams, I think, or cartoon, I think would be the other one. But most of them, I think, are primarily thinking about the speaking roles. I want to be the lead role in a video game or the lead role in a cartoon. My guest today has carved out an entirely different niche as the founder of the Monster Factory. Welcome to the show. Sebastian Croteau.
- [01:27]
A
Hello. Thanks for having me.
- [01:30]
B
I am really looking forward to getting into this because I know nothing. So I'm just going to tell you that up front. So I'm probably going to ask a lot of dumb questions, but I literally know nothing other than, you know, I've watched cartoons, I play the occasional video game or whatever. But I am fascinated by what you do and I fell down the rabbit hole of your YouTube channel and it is crazy to watch the things that you do. So let's start with what is vocal stunt work and vocal design? What? What? Explain what it is.
- [02:02]
A
So the thing is for creature voice acting, because for me there are different ways actually separate what, what I do. Actually, creature voice acting doesn't necessarily means that we will use, for example, extreme vocal technique, meaning me, a technique that you need to be train for in order to do creature sound. For example, if I use uv, you know, it's, you know, I can do cute creature with that. This is not vocal stunt performance, but it's still creature voice acting. Right. So for me, there's something specific for creature voice acting. Vocal stunt performance means that, you know, when, when. When we think about stunt people in movies, right. Nowadays, we wouldn't think about, oh, yeah, let's take whoever and do a complex stunt. Like you can train an actor to a point, except if you're tongue bruise seemingly can do everything, but apart from that, you can train an actor. But at some point you need people who are actually highly trained for, you know, the most dangerous stunts. And for me, I think we are the equivalent of that. But in the world of voiceover, we are people who are trained to do extreme voices, to stream for a number of hours, and we are able to sustain that. And we've been able to sustain that for years. So this is how we define vocal stunt performance.
- [03:29]
B
So when I was a kid, you know, you tried to talk like Porky Pig or Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny, right? Like you did impressions. That's basically what it was, right? You did. You did impressions. And that was like cartoons and video games was doing impressions. How does young Sebastian discover that he has a special gift and talent for all of these crazy sounds that make up this entire universe of what it is that you do? How did you come across that ability?
- [04:01]
A
I think it started with an interest first, not an ability, but a true genuine interest in villains voices or weird voices in cartoon. Like, I remember when I was a kid listening to Kooky Monster. She is for Cookie, you know, the weird voice. And I remember I had a teddy bear of Cookie Monster. Like, that was one of my first. I asked my mom to buy it, if you remember Commander Cobra and G.I. joe.
- [04:26]
B
Hey, G.I. joe.
- [04:28]
A
And yeah, he was a black metal singer before black metal was invented. So. So I had an interest in weird voices. And then before I started to do extreme vocal, I was a choir boy. So I started singing in a choir. This was quite different from metal music.
- [04:47]
B
Just a little bit on the outside there. Yeah.
- [04:49]
A
But then I discovered metal music and I fell down the rabbit hole of death metal and speed metal and everything that people are screaming or using weird voice technique. And so for me, that was the whole villain weird voices all over again. Right. Without the cartoon part. Gotcha. Okay. So I started to sing. I was 15 years old. Now I'm 50 years old. So it's been 35 years that I've been singing death metal and doing history voices. I started doing do that and then I discovered throat singing. You know, trout singing, Tibetan throat singing, Tuv Tro singing, I started to, let's say, compliment what I was already doing with my voice. And in 2005, a friend of mine started to work in Ubisoft Montreal, and they were looking for weird voices for one of their video game, Far Cry Instinct on Xbox. So I met the team. They show me, you know, the visual of the creature. And back then, I wasn't aware of how much time it takes, you know, to do a video game. So I had to wait eight months, you know, to get a call back. And for me, I was like, ah, yeah, I blew it. Like, I went. I knew them, they didn't like it. Eight months after call back, go there, record. I recorded eight hours a day for two days straight. A little bit too much for my first gig ever. Yeah, and that's how it started. After that, you guys have called me back for a different game. And then, you know, the word of mouth spread around and more company in Montreal jump on the bandwagon. And at some point after Marvel, Guardian of the Galaxy, this is where I decided to start a company, because prior to that, it was. I consider that mostly a hobby than a job because there was basically no demand for that or very little.
- [06:44]
B
So I know that you are actually trained and certified in vocal distortion.
- [06:49]
A
Yeah.
- [06:50]
B
So that's something that you have since acquired. But going back to those early days and doing these sessions at Ubisoft, like, how did you. How did you come up with the stuff? Was it just complete experimentation? Was it. Was there. Was there some sort of training or theatrical training or vocal training that you had done, or you were kind of.
- [07:11]
A
Winging it, jump straight into it? That was a leap of faith I had. No, the thing is, you know, being a singer and especially being a metal singer, if you look at metal music and you look at the singer on stage and he looks like he wants to devour your face. Right. And if you talk to him after. After the show, you will find a lot of time that there are very gentle and sweet people. Right. So being on stage is acting, a different kind of acting. Not all the skills are transferable, but a couple are actually. So for me, that was something that was already there. You know, the, the. The. The ability to jump in a Persona and stick to it for a whole show. Um, some of the stuff we were doing was highly theatrical. So, so, so. But in terms of voiceover, I have no experience at all. I just jump right into it. And the thing is, it's quite crazy to think about it, because most people, the way you end up in aaa, video games, you start, you study theater, voiceover, whatever you do, you know, school project, small project, indie project. And then, and then at some point, 10 years after you do AAA and movie and stuff. Me, I started right there. So that was quite a learning curve. I had to learn a lot of things fast. And of course practice makes perfect. So when you have one contract every two year, that, that was at the beginning. You don't learn a lot. You learn a bit. But it's, the more you do it, the more you're like, okay, now maybe I should pay attention to that, that, that. And of course since then I took voiceover class. I took, you know, private class with people. So, so I took it more seriously. But it's only recently that, you know, with the company that it became a full time job. Really.
- [09:05]
B
I get it. Nobody gets excited about marketing their voiceover business. It's not the thing that you jump out of bed and race down into the studio to do every day. I get it. But I also know that it's necessary if you want to grow a sustainable business for the long term. And that is why I've created so many resources@veopreneur.com designed to help you do just that. There are master classes and workshops for all different types of marketing. There are free resources that you can download to help get you started and give you a little bit of guidance to move you in the right direction. Of course, there's the podcast and then there's the free advice Friday livestream. Everything that you need. Your guide through the business of voiceover is@veopreneur.com so if you're looking for a little bit of extra help with your voiceover marketing and you're not quite sure where to start, head to veopreneur.com and check out all the offerings that are on the website. Check it out. Veopreneur.com now back to our show. So going back to those early days, you were doing the singing already, the metal singing, before you started doing the voiceover. So you had some understanding of your actual instrument, like your voice. And because, I mean, for somebody that didn't have any clue, you go into two eight hour days sessions, like full day sessions. You're screwing, shredding. You're right, you're totally. You don't talk for two weeks after that. Right. Like you could do serious damage to yourself if you don't know what you're doing. So you already had some understanding of how your instrument worked and how to care for it and take care of it while you're in those sessions, I'm assuming.
- [10:40]
A
Absolutely. The thing is, I, I had, you know, quite a bit of knowledge about it, but I had no idea, you know, about voiceover recording. For me, in my mind, when I booked the first session, I was like, yeah, I don't know, it's gonna be different. And I'm a big death metal singer. I can do that for a long time. You know, I found out fast that 8 hours was too much. Like, I remember I had blood in my saliva at the end of the second day.
- [11:09]
B
Oh, wow.
- [11:09]
A
Yeah, so. So I was like, no, you know what? Eight hours, do that again. Let's not do that again. Maybe four. Yeah, and the thing is, even today, like I had a four hour recording session last week and I'm gonna have another one. So. So the thing is we are, because of what we do, we're really conscious and aware of, of, you know, the possibility of our instrument, but also the limitation of our instrument. And of course, over the years I got a little bit geeky. I went into more vocal science and vocal anatomy. So now I can explain how I'm doing the sound. I can show how I'm, how I'm doing the sound. But it took a while before I really had an interest in more than just, okay, you know, I feel it's all right, I can continue, you know, from there to actually be more knowledgeable about it. It took a while.
- [11:57]
B
Is that something that's changed over time with the studios where they recognize now too? Like, hey, maybe it's not a good idea to bring a voice actor in for an eight hour session. Like, maybe we need to spread this out a little more over time. Or are they just like, hey, if somebody will sign up and do it, we'll put them through it?
- [12:12]
A
Like, no, I think the industry changed quite a bit. Like a few years back there was a series of article about vocal stunt work and you know, people having a hard time doing a recording session for zombie sound and extreme vocals and things like that. I think that the industry adapted and it's been a while since, you know, the, you know, they, they book two hour recording session instead of four. They, they spread it apart. So the industry has done quite a bit. There's still a few things, you know, I think that could be improved. But overall, I mean, I think that what needs to be improved is, is specifically from coming from the voice talent. They need to be aware that you can train for vocal distortion and you just don't go or book a recording session. If and scream for, you know, a few hours if you're not trying to do that. All the other story we've heard in the last 20 years are coming from people who are not trained in 20 years. In 20 years I never had to stop or to reschedule a recording session because of vocal stress, of vocal fatigue, ever. Nor me, nor one of my voice talent ever.
- [13:28]
B
So where did you go to learn that originally? Where did like that? I don't, it's like it's like a college class or is that like an acting thing? Like it's not something you would normally hear of, right? Some secret community in the dark corners of the Internet.
- [13:42]
A
Back then there was no science, no YouTube tutorial. The only thing you could do is listen to a cassette. There was no CD back then. It was a cassette. And try to lost some people, but yeah. And try to what? And mimic what we were hearing on the tape, right?
- [14:02]
B
Sure.
- [14:03]
A
So basically it took a long time before anyone had any knowledge about real knowledge about the vocal anatomy and the mechanism of vocal effect that we're using. So, so we just like trials and error. Try something, it doesn't feel good. Okay, maybe try again. So that was a process which took years and it still take years, you know, to get comfortable with vocal, with some of the vocal effect. But, but back then there was no, it's just like trying to mimic. And the human is incredible at mimicking stuff most of the time. So that was just like, yeah, let's try it and, and let's see. And I, I, I think I got lucky because, you know, I'm still doing it 35 years later. So I think I must be doing something right. No problem with my voice.
- [14:54]
B
So yeah, I mean, I think about how I have felt after like a, you know, four or five hour session just recording elearning and how exhausted I feel like and my, my voice feels so, you know, doing zombie sounds or screaming or whatever. Like I can't imagine how you would do that without having some sort of technique or understanding that that protects you along the way. So is that part of what you learned then? Now that you have this, you're trained and certified in vocal distortion. Talk a little bit about that, that training and what, what does that look like? Is that what gives you the education now?
- [15:30]
A
Yes. So the thing is, imagine because there's a lot of things in our vocal track that we can use to actually create vocal effect, right?
- [15:38]
B
Sure.
- [15:39]
A
They're all attached to muscle. Like all of the little things I use are attached to muscle. So if you think about muscular training, right, Even if we're not talking about voiceover. What do you do when you want to train, for example, to be a runner, a marathon runner, or you do it, you train, you get some discomfort along the way, you establish the baseline over time, you run more, you run more, you run around the block, you do your first kilometer, 2, 3. That's the exact same thing. I mean, you have to isolate and activate the specific part you want to use and repeat the muscular gesture over and over again. It's the exact same thing. The only thing that is usually tricky at the beginning is to identify exactly what you're using. And second, you know there's going to be some discomfort. It's like if you don't go to the gym for a very long time and you go back to the gym and I mean, if you train, discomfort is going to be part of the training process, Right? And it's the same thing with vocal effect. The only thing is, specifically for people working in voiceover, it's quite scary because if you experience discomfort, this is the instrument that you make a living.
- [16:47]
B
There's my living. Right?
- [16:48]
A
Yeah. So. So it's like, oh, I don't want to. But the thing is, once you know a bit about it, you know that again, this is muscular training. Mostly discomfort is going to be part of the process, and over time, you'll be able to, you know, build stamina and be more endurance. But the thing is avoiding it, because this is still an approach coming from vocal health specialists. They're trying to mitigate the symptom of vocal stress, but they're. They don't attack. Like, for me, the main problem, which is you need to train to scream, to be a better screamer and to make it sustainable. If you avoid it, you're not going to get better. It's like if you avoid singing, you're not going to become a good singer. Right. If you only warm up and cool down and you don't work on the main things. Yeah, I mean, that's it. So, of course, warming up and cooling down is part of overall, you know, vocal health hygiene and strategy and good strategy. But the thing is, you need to, you know, get down and get greedy and. And try the vocal effect. And one of the things that we do is vocal coach, because I work with many people doing vocal coaching, is that to help people find the entry point and to establish a training program, basically. But it's something like we all have the same part, minus little differences. Sometimes people's vocal folds are Thicker than others. Sometimes there's. But basically we all have the same part, right? So. So it's possible for anyone to actually learn that.
- [18:15]
B
It's just important that you take the time to actually learn it. Because I think probably what a lot of voice actors are doing is they're, they're doing it without that.
- [18:22]
A
Oh, absolutely.
- [18:23]
B
Knowledge.
- [18:24]
A
Absolutely.
- [18:25]
B
And I mean, you can do long term damage. I mean, Dave Walsh has talked about that. That's part of what his, his teaching is. There's, you know, the damage that he did to his voice and the, the process that he went through, recovery for, for all of that. And so making sure before you just get out, rush out there and start doing some of these auditions that you're understanding some of this stuff. So talk a little bit about what does, what does a warm up routine look like for you before you go into a session?
- [18:49]
A
It depends on which vocal effect I'm going to use. For example, if I do uvula trill. Uvula doesn't move on its, doesn't move on its own. It's airflow that makes it move. Right. So. So there's a little thing dangling there. It's only the airflow that makes it move. Like, do I need to warm up for that? No, basically. Okay, so that's, you know, again, like I said, depending on vocal effect, if I'm going to do the voice for an orc, right. Which is basically probably going to be down there. Right. So that I use ventricle effects in order to. Which is mucous membrane right above the vocal fold in order to do that vocal effect. So of course, if I know I'm going to use that for a couple of hours, then I gently, you know, slowly activate the mechanism. Not with a lot of airflow, but just like with basic, you know. Again, imagine when you go to the gym, you stretch, you do small weight and big weight, right?
- [19:48]
B
Yep.
- [19:48]
A
It's exactly the same thing. So instead of weight, for me, it's airflow. I do it with minimal airflow and I increase a little bit the airflow. But the thing is, a warm up should remain a warm up like you. For me, I don't warm up an hour. I don't see the point because that's too long. It becomes now you're taking in energy that you will need during the recording session.
- [20:11]
B
Out a little bit already before you even start.
- [20:13]
A
Exactly. And the thing is, warm up and cool down are highly personal in the sense that for example, if I were to give you exactly my recipe that I do for each Vocal effect. I'm giving you the recipe of a train vocal athlete that has 35 years of training. Do you think it works for a beginner?
- [20:31]
B
Yeah. No, no, totally different. Yep.
- [20:34]
A
You don't give the same warm up and cool down for someone who starts. Right. Like if I'm an Olympic athlete and oh yeah, I'm an Olympic swimmer, I'm going to give you, you know, my warm up. Good luck.
- [20:48]
B
Well, I'm guessing there's also a difference just because of the, the metal singing that you do too. Right. Then you, that, that's trained your voice in a, in a different way and you've used it in a different way, which is a far cry from a voice actor going in and, you know, submitting a few auditions every day and having to make some sounds and stuff like that. So I, that makes sense that, you know, there's not a one size fits all.
- [21:08]
A
Oh, no. And I, and I, absolutely. Because that's the thing. Like even today, if we look at, you know, sometime what people recommend in terms of warm up and cool down and voiceover, like for me, they, they recommend generic things and, and it should be tailor made. Like this is why, you know, I'm lucky to work with a voice therapist, Karen Esposito. And she, you know, she was part of, of, of some of the people that actually, you know, made me look at the entire warm up and cool down differently. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's important to do so. But just using something that is generic or you heard someone tell you that it's good. Like we all have our different strengths and weaknesses. Right. Therefore whatever we do should be according to those strengths and weaknesses, not just like, okay, I'm gonna do five minutes of this, ten minutes of that. Because I've heard it's good. Then, then I should be fine, right? It should be like anything, trials and error and then at some point you find the right formula. But, but I think it's, it's, you know, there's still a lack of knowledge in the voiceover industry. Just basic vocal anatomy. When I talk to people a lot of time when I show them video about vocal anatomy and how different part works, that's the first time they see, you know, vocal tones or, or, or, and I'm like, wow. So even in theater you train in voiceover, but you don't know anything about your instrument. I think this is a huge, you know, canyon. Something that is missing in the voiceover community is a real focus on vocal health and a real focus on Vocal anatomy.
- [22:49]
B
Well, even what you said about, you know, if I'm doing this particular thing, I would warm up in this way. If I'm doing this particular thing, I don't even really need to do a warm up because it's using like, even that. I would say probably most of us have no understanding or no concept of that. Right. We just think about a generic, you know, we go and hum or, you know, people that teach cups and straws and all these different things or, you know, tongue twisters or, you know, whatever it is. And, and so then it's just this idea that, you know, something's better than nothing or this is what that person does. So it must, you know, that's. And it obviously worked for them, so it would work for me or whatever. But, yeah, it's not, it's not that at all. And I mean, you. One of the things that I noticed as I was researching for this interview was you talk a lot about the fact that, you know, this is a science. It is. There's, there's. There's a science to it. And so that, that it's not just a simple, do this and you'll be fine, or do that and you'll be okay.
- [23:43]
A
And especially if you're not prepared. This is why, you know, if we go back to what we were talking at the beginning, vocal stunt performance, this is why I talk about that. Because in voiceover, we still use untrained voice talent to do all those sound. And for me, it's, it's, it's, it's a little bit baffling, you know, so this is why I'm so insistent on using that. Those words together. Because I want people to understand that. No, no, you need to be trained for that. Like, if you don't have the proper training and you still send, you know, audio samples for a casting call, well, you know, you're going to be in there two hours. Can you sustain those voices? Of course. You know, some people are willing to compromise their vocal health for a paycheck, but at some point, like, it's ongoing.
- [24:30]
B
Catch up to you, right?
- [24:31]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [24:32]
B
It's going to catch up to you. You mentioned that you've been doing this for 35 years and you've never had to cancel a session. So you've, you've never had any kind of serious vocal injury, doing all the crazy stuff that you do. So obviously you know what you're talking about here, because I'm watching some of those videos and I'm like, I felt like my, I Felt like my throat hurt. Just watching some of those videos, watching you do some of those things.
- [24:56]
A
It's interesting what you say, because regular people, the relationship we have with vocal distortion, and you use the word, you know, sound like it hurts, right? I'm like, yep. In our, in a regular life, when did we use vocal distortion? When we're angry at someone, when our life is threatened, when we're vomiting, when we're coughing. So every experience we have with vocal distortion is a negative one, right? And, and even I remember when I brought some of my family to see a few show when I started when I was 15, 16, the first thing they asked me was, does it hurt? Because that's how people can see vocal distortion. They. It's related to pain, it's related to unpleasant experiences. And there's always that part at the beginning where it's kind of like you need to deprogram the brain from its negative perceptions towards vocal distortion and you need to play with it and have to make the brain understand that no, your life is not in danger. You're not angry at someone, you're not coughing, you're not sick, you're. You're just having fun with parts of your vocal tract that you usually don't use, right? And so this is a whole process. And, and this is why it takes always a little bit more time to train a voice actor, because voice actors and voice actresses already have a, you know, a good chunk of vocal load. You know, you do other, you, you do stuff with your voice already. Like most people that I know now that are into vocal stunt performance and creature voice acting, the people on my roster, a lot of them focus on one thing and one thing only. When they started vocal effect and vocal distortion, right? And the focus. And then after that, they, of course, they obviously needed to be trained on voice acting. And I told to, to, to. To do a recording session for voice acting. But the thing is, because people already have a lot on their plate, it takes always a little bit longer because you have to find those moment where if you train to augment your stamina, you're not going to jeopardize a contract. The following day you imagine you try to push yourself and the next day you do a commercial and it's a car commercial and you go into like, yeah, you know, buy a Honda.
- [27:14]
B
Like you just chain smoking all day or something.
- [27:16]
A
Yeah, like, buy a Honda. Like, I mean, so, so this is why, what I call baby step, you know, it's an approach, you know, it's. It's Better to go at it, you know, in small increments, small progress and small step than to try and rush this. And let's say, okay, now I'm good for a two hour recording session. Like, and for me that's one other thing is that in Creature Voice acting in most of monster and Creature Sound or still done with Animal Sound Libraries and the rest with a plugin. So if you look at all the video games, let's say being made, probably there's 0.00001% of all the games being made that are done by Creature Voice Actor. The rest Animal Sound Library and, and the Humanizer and, and plugin. So, so we have a huge responsibility on our shoulders when we do that. Like we have to deliver the goods.
- [28:15]
B
It's gotta sound, yeah, it's gotta sound different. It's gotta make it stand out in some way.
- [28:20]
A
And you have to be able to sustain the vocal effect for the duration of the recording session. Otherwise you just gave them the perfect reason to go back to Animal Sound Library. You know, this is why I travel so much. I try to convince audio director, voice designer, sound designer to go from Animal Sound Library to human beings. You know, my take on that is that humans are better. So whenever we have to do that, we have to deliver because otherwise they're going to go back to Animal Sound Library and we lost.
- [28:49]
B
Are you worried at all about how AI plays into this now?
- [28:54]
A
AI is attacking the main market. Right. Like Future Voices, they're for that. Even though I've seen people like, I've seen AI software claiming to do monster voices or extreme vocal. And I listen to them and I'm convinced that it will take a while before, for the moment, I mean, I.
- [29:16]
B
Still think that when I hear some of the regular voice stuff too. So.
- [29:19]
A
Absolutely. The thing is, I view AI as another tool to use and a market to explore. I mean, of course what we hear about AI, you know, hear the worst, the abuse, the everything, like I found my voice there without my consent. So we hear a lot about that. But what we don't hear about is, and I'm not going to say success story, but, but kind of like some people are using it, you know, they ask for consent, they offer fair compensation and you know, you're still, they give you the credit for, for being the voice on that. So, so I think that, you know, instead of being in front of the volcano, the erupting volcano, and saying it's not gonna happen, I mean, it's happening. So, so we either try to influence different models, you know, and try to make them work for us instead of just not trying to implicate ourselves in the whole thing and just trying to say, no, I'm not going to touch that. I'm going to stay as far away from it. I think that unfortunately human being are doing the dumb stuff first with technology. Look at nuclear power. Like we boom some people and then we build nuclear plants afterwards.
- [30:38]
B
Yes.
- [30:38]
A
So we always do the dumb stuff first. So, so. So I think that we have to focus on models that can be sustainable for voice actor and that can, you know, consent, fair compensation and credit. I think for me, that's the. The 3C that I'm looking for. If comes the time that I'm working with that or building a generative AI for Kutrin Monster.
- [31:05]
B
I would love to get into your character development process. I was looking at your. IMDb is very lengthy. There's over 300 credits or something like that that you've done. You mentioned Guardians of the Galaxy earlier. You've done some stuff with Star wars and Genshin Impact. And I mean, you're on all the. All the big things. A lot of times with character development in a video game, we're thinking about, you know, I'm going to be this general or I'm going to be this whatever, right? Identify the actual character. But I'm guessing it's a little bit different when it's like, okay, I need you to be the sound of whatever, or I need you to make whatever sound you think that this thing might make if it was making a sound. Or how do you get into that? How do you get into that process?
- [31:47]
A
It's an excellent question. Whatever, you know, for example, let's say you have a talking creature, right? An orc, a Goblin. This will be the same process as, you know, a regular human role. I mean, you look at the backstory, you look at the background, you look at the personality traits. You know, orcs and Goblin as a. Have a very typical voice. You know, if you think about an orc boy, it's going to be down there. And if you think about the Goblin, it's got to be up there, right?
- [32:18]
B
So.
- [32:18]
A
So you would. That would be almost the same, except there's a vocal effect, right? It's when we go into, you know, let's say you need to voice a spider, you know, and the spider, there's no words. So. So what vocal effect do you use? Usually everything that is clicky. So, you know, that would be the voice for a spider. Do I need a Two page background story about how the spider came to be. If I don't have any words to convey any emotions, parents. So, so, so how would that influence the sound that I'll be doing? What will influence the sound that I'll be doing will be the action I need to idle, I need to do breathing, I need to attack, I need to feel pain, I need to die. Like this is basically what we have to do, right? So it's more the action that will influence the sound that we will be doing, right. More than any background information. Another example, if I'm a human in a zombie apocalypse, maybe my parent died when I was young or they turned into zombie and I had to kill them. Whatever happened influence what I'm going to be as a character, right? And as an actor, you take all that and you say, well, that's going to be the Persona of, you know, it's going to be trouble, it's going to have a problem with attachment because you lost everyone he loves. Like all the things you would play, you know, would have a, an impact on, on, on your work as an actor. But if you get bitten by a zombie and you turn into a zombie, are you gonna be the melancholic orphan zombie? No.
- [33:54]
B
Yeah. No, no, not at that point.
- [33:56]
A
You know, your primary driver would be to bite people or to eat. That's it. You know, it's got to be highly aggressive. So the thing is, you have to focus of course on the vocal effect, on the, what I call the vocal archetype, which is basically, you know, the sound that we have in mind now when we think about zombies. And then everything you will do will be delivered through action. And the challenge is how do you specifically voice an action to make it credible? But not only that, how do you repeat that same action for, you know, 15, 20 time without sounding the same? Because that's a thing in video game. We have to do sometime 10, 15, 20 variation for Onos and grunts. Right? So, so, so there's an extra challenge in making sure that we come up with the right variation without of course tiring our voice. But, but yeah, so, so, so again the action drives more the way we will do the sound then sometime a lot of the information, you know, that we would use, you know, for a regular role, like the background, the story, personality trait.
- [35:05]
B
That's so interesting because I mean, I don't do video games, I don't audition or anything like that, but I've seen the castings before and sometimes they'll give you like a picture of the character or whatever. But even that doesn't necessarily tell you, like the action thing is, like, wow, yeah, okay, that makes so much more sense. That's going to have an influence in a lot of ways, more so than just a picture of what the character looks like or something like that. So I guess there's probably a responsibility on the voice actor side to know what questions you might need to ask if the brief doesn't give you everything that you think you need, you know.
- [35:38]
A
A lot of time. Because I do both, you know, I'm behind the microphone sometime as a voice director and as a voice talent, you know, whatever. I'm. Whatever side I am, I ask a lot of questions because most of the time the client is there, right? So there's a couple of people and they're all on Zoom or. Or an audio movers, and I ask them a lot of questions because even the action, like my conception of what constitute a good attack sound could be different from yours. Right. So how do you reconcile that and make sure that, you know, you are meeting in the middle or you are fulfilling their expectation? Right. Again, this is. It needs to be discussed. So a lot of time, there's a lot of discussion going on. Hey, so. So, you know, or sometime we have the video animation. So now the movement defines how we will do the sound, right? So we have to follow exactly what's on the video animation. And sometime there's, you know, let's say, for example, you don't see the creature, but there's been something happening before and the creatures should be there. So technically, even if you don't see the creature, you should hear it, right? Even though, you know, the cutscene, for example, you only see the creature like 10, 15 seconds after. So, so that's the kind of thing where we need to discuss like, hey, okay, do you. Do you want that? Do you want me to do some sound that like, for example, some idol the creature is like it just in the background, something very subtle or, you know, do you need those attack sound to sound like, you know, there's a pre attack and an attack, or you just won the attack, or you, you want it to feel more like a punch or is it more like a bite attack or is it like a vomit attack? You know what kind of attack it is? So, so.
- [37:33]
B
Gosh, so so many variables is like my mind is melting down just listening to all these and. But the fact that you're thinking of all of those things, there's. That's a whole other art form. I mean, to me there's like, you got to have the skill to actually deliver the vocals. But there's like this whole other art form just in comprehending what you have to know to be able to deliver, like to get to the, to the sound, which is just crazy. Are you a gamer?
- [38:01]
A
I am if.
- [38:03]
B
Does it make a difference? Like this is all video games behind you?
- [38:09]
A
No. Well, you can say you can see old Colecovision up there.
- [38:13]
B
Nice. Yes.
- [38:14]
A
That's a few. Okay, I'm going to put it there. And what you don't see is that this is dvd. On this side there's music, on this side there's, you know, things like. Like this.
- [38:27]
B
Ah, yes. Okay.
- [38:29]
A
So. So I have 18 gaming console at my place. The thing is, as you can imagine, I have less time than before to play video games. So I played the video games that are either fast like Battlefront 2. I still pay. I'm a huge fan of Battlefront too. So you know, If I have 10, 15 minutes I just, you know.
- [38:53]
B
Yep.
- [38:54]
A
Open up a game and play. Since I don't have the time to play now, I play the games that we've done voices in just so to listen to. Because first, you know, when I buy video game there's tax deductible because it's a company expenses.
- [39:10]
B
Of course. Of course being in Canada, we need all of those. Give us all the write offs.
- [39:16]
A
Exactly. But I think, you know, one of the things being a creature voice actor, for me there's always research to be done in the sense that if you look at for example the voices of zombie, they evolved since the 60s, right. They be. And then so, so, so the thing for me, when I buy a game or a movie, usually there's monster or alien in it and I want to listen to the sound. And, and, and because some people deem that that was a good sound for those creatures, I want to listen to that. I want to listen to what people are thinking about for this or this or this creature. And, and to see if there's any trends, you know, in, in in there. Are there. Are they their new vocal archetypes or is there a new way to think about zombies for example, or, or what about large creature? What is the usual sound for dragon and for. For. And all of that comes in nd you whenever we do prototyping or vocal design like of course we look at a creature, we take in account a lot of information. But. But knowing, you know, with multiple example what usually a dragon sounds like then trying to replicate and. Or you Know, find something new in there to try to, you know, make it different than others. So you have to listen to a lot of, of of that, you know, either through playing the video game or just watching playthrough and listening to, To. To. To the sound of monster and creature. For me, I think this is, you know, this is what I call know your monster. Yeah, you have to be knowledgeable about the existing sound of, of. Of creature and monster in order to do what I do.
- [41:08]
B
I liken it, I guess, to a commercial voice actor being told, you know, stop fast forwarding to commercials. Actually sit and watch the commercials and listen to the commercials and hear what is the voice? Like, what is the style? Like, what is the direction, what is the tone? Like, you, you know, you're watching the commercials for research purposes. And so it makes a lot of sense when you say it that way. And that's why I was just curious if being a gamer is advantageous for somebody that wants to be in this space. Because I guess you would have a deeper, more intimate understanding of the character, the nuance, the sound design, like, all of that sort of stuff. Right.
- [41:45]
A
The thing is, it's when I started to voice for creature and Monster, then I really started to notice the sound of creature, Monster in game. Before that, you know, that was part of the background. I was like, cool. But I never focus on that before. And now, believe me, like, when I play a game, I play as much with my ears than I play with my fingers and my eyesight. Like, I, I want to listen, like, even just some time for, you know, regular human. Like whenever you have a human and you play as a human, you know, and you jump, I want to hear whatever sound they kept for jumping. And when they're climbing and when they're hurt, when they're in pain, I want to listen what they. What they kept, you know, because they probably did a lot of takes and they decided to keep this one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this one. Right. So there's something to that. And, And I want to be able to listen to that. Right. So again, you know, I now I play a lot more with my ears than I used to. Because, you know, if I think that if, if, if, you know, like we say the devil is in the details, right?
- [42:55]
B
Yeah.
- [42:56]
A
And I think that being aware of those details makes you better talk to.
- [43:01]
B
Me about the physicality of this. Cause that was one of the things that stood out to me a lot when I was watching the YouTube videos was you're not just standing In a studio behind a microphone. Like that was a full body performance. A lot of the stuff that I was watching you do felt like a full body performance, the way that you got yourself into it. So I would really love to hear what that's all about because obviously the anatomy plays a role in getting to some of these sounds or getting to some of the headspaces maybe to make some of these sounds.
- [43:39]
A
Yeah. You know, you're always limited like we are now. You know, we cannot go there. Yeah. So there's a limit to the movements. Right. And they're always dictated by that. You know, you cannot go too far from that except when you have a little microphone like this, a DSP5, whatever you do, it follows you. So, so now you can do whatever he wants. But usually we have that. Right. So a lot of the work has to be, you know, usually done with upper body and with the, the, the hips also as well and with the shoulders. So for me, you know, I have to be honest, nowadays, when I have a four hour recording session, believe me, I'm sitting down. Like I'm, I turned 50 years old last week, so, you know, four hours I'm going to be sitting down. But what I will use upper body whenever I need to do, you know, movement and attack. I, I will sometime try, of course, to do the full swing, but sometime I'm gonna limit myself, you know, a little bit because there's other stuff around. Right. And you don't want to bang or you don't want to use your feet and bang on the floor and then. No, it got into the microphone. You don't want to do that. And, and the thing is, you know, it helps do the variation. You know, like I was explaining, we have 10, 15, sometimes 20 variation to do for a specific action. And I think using the body helps to make those variations sounds natural. You know, if I were to bump my small toe on a table, apart from swearing in French, which I will avoid, you know, I would probably go with the vowel like a. Like. Yeah. Even though it doesn't hurt, I would do that. Um, so, so we have, for me, we have sound recorded in our body that can be triggered. Whatever we use the right, the, the right movement or the right thing. So, so, so yes, and this is why, and it's funny to say, you know, most people think that after three hours of doing creature sound, you know, your voice is tired most of the time. I'm more physically tired than that.
- [45:50]
B
I. Nothing to do with my voice.
- [45:53]
A
Then I'm vocally tired. Just because again, you know, I, I remember I once spent, you know, 30 minutes with a can of Febreze just to use the can of Febreze as a weapon. Unfortunately, I, I was hitting the little thing and it was so. It was smelling real good after the session because there was a, you know, a few here and there. But yeah, physicality plays an important part, of course, within the limitation of a recording setting right where the microphone is there. If you start going all around, not gonna be good, you will have to start again. But I do believe it helps again make the sound feel more realistic and more natural.
- [46:36]
B
Even the expressions. I think that was probably the. One of the things that I noticed more than anything it was your face. And, and it's funny, I, I've been doing some, some narration videos on my own that I put up on a YouTube channel and that was. Some of the comments that I would get back from people was that it was really interesting to see how my eyes would do something or, you know, my mouth would go a certain way or I get this look on my face while I was telling whatever part of the story. And I definitely saw that watching the videos that you were doing, like your face, your, your, the. The way that you're moving your eyes, your mouth, like everything just goes, goes all into it and it, it feels like this immersive character experience.
- [47:16]
A
It does. And the thing is, we're lucky that there's not 10,000 people watching us and that we are in the shadow. You know, there's only a few people. We're actually seeing our faces. You know, sometimes it's cool for, you know, behind the scenes stuff. I think it gives interesting information about what goes into it. But yeah, I mean, it's not a beauty contest, fortunately, because sometimes, yeah, you're gonna look weird. You know, there's a few vocal technique that I do. I'm. When I do them, I don't look my best, but I don't care because I'm not there to make money on my face, I'm there to make money on the sound. So of course, like, let's do it, let's look silly, let's look crazy, whatever needs to be done. And of course, you know, whenever you play a character, and the thing is we rarely play cute creature, you know, we. I've done a few, but most of the time. And it's so funny because I'm so far from that. You know, we play demons, zombie, like.
- [48:24]
B
Yeah, things that are very dark, angry. Yeah.
- [48:27]
A
But the thing is, if you look at What I was doing. And I'm still doing death metal, like dark music, angry music. So. So if you were to look at me on a stage, I wouldn't look like the friendly Sebastian that you have now on the interview. I look like the role I'm playing. Right. It goes into that. So of course, you know, we, we jumped in, we, we go full all in, whatever we need to, to, to do that. Because it's part of the fun. It's part of the fun to play something that is so far away from what you are in real life.
- [49:06]
B
You, you definitely would not want to be self conscious in the directed session when you're, when you're doing some of that stuff. But I mean, it's what you have to do to get to the sound or whatever. How much of these sessions is just experimentation? Like when I think about a commercial, they say, you know, oh, you're, you're the, you're the guy next door talking to your neighbor over the fence. And that's okay, I can, I can envision that. But when you're like you're stabbing somebody with the sword and you're cutting off of the, cutting off their head, like it's, it's hard to, to me, it's like there's so many different ways that that could go.
- [49:43]
A
Yeah.
- [49:44]
B
So how much of it is just, I don't know, just make some sounds and we'll see. What, like, because you said you do a lot of variations, right?
- [49:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [49:53]
B
So is it just a lot of experimentation?
- [49:55]
A
There is actually, there's quite a bit. Sometime we just do recording session just to experiment because basically the companies are looking for new ideas for their character. So we just go, okay, let's try that, let's try that. Like I had that last week. You know, we did a four hour exploratory recording session where, you know, they wanted some things I was trying with different vocal effects. You know, what would be the best vocal effect to convey what they had in mind. And then after I had to do voice direction for the same project. But then I knew what they were looking for because we spent four hours exploring. Right. So with the other voice talent, it was less exploration, more like, okay, this is what they want. So, so this is why I'm usually what I call the cannery in the mind. Like I'm the, I go in, you go in for explore. You know, whatever they, they, they, they need whatever they want. I, you know, there's a lot of back and forth and discussion going through, through those recording session and Then whenever we have a more fixed idea of. Of, you know, what the character needs, then we can actually, you know, book session with voice talent with a more of a precise idea. In my mind, I don't get me wrong, I love exploring. I adore exploring. But at some point, you need to have a precise idea of what the character will sound like. Otherwise, like, you're just gonna explore and maybe tired the voice talent, because that's one of the thing is that the more voice technique you do in a recording session, the more tired you get. I mean, if you do one voice vocal effect like. Like that for an entire recording session, no problem. But if you have to switch from there to high pitch to ingressive, do it epiglottis. This is where it becomes tiring. Right. So we try to do the exploration whenever we need to, but then, of course, after that, it helps to establish the vocal identity of the character. And when we have a more precise idea, this is usually when we can set a casting call, you know, to. To the people and say, that's the audio reference. That's what they're looking for. So do something around that. You know.
- [52:08]
B
I'm guessing at this point, you must have some sort of extensive database as a frame of reference. Yeah. So when they ask for a specific type of sound or a specific type of creature or a specific type of scene, at this point, I'm guessing you can go back through, see previous sessions that you've done or listen to previous sessions.
- [52:29]
A
It's all in there.
- [52:30]
B
It's all. It's just locked in. You need no stinking database. But that's got to be helpful too. Like, do you ever. Do you ever provide that to clients is like when they come in looking and you say, well, here's a bunch of stuff like, is there something in here that you think the direction you want to go?
- [52:45]
A
Or that's basically, for me, voice design. You know, whenever. When we work for Guardian of the Galaxy, the video game, they have no idea for the sound of the aliens and the creature and everything. So we did prototypes. Okay, Right. So looking at the creature, this is what the creature looks like. They have already have idea for that. Oh, I want it to shine, to sound like an angry Chihuahua. All right, let's explore around that. Right. And. And then for a lot, there was that. Now we don't have any idea, like for the. The alien languages or for the alien voices. So basically, we're looking at the physicality, some of the background, and sort of. Because they're. They're Talking, right. Like I said, when they're talking now, you go into, you know, something more similar than, than, Than, you know, regular role, you know, the, the same kind of approach. So we were looking at a lot of different things. And then, okay, so that's going to be the sound based on the size of its cheek, based on that, the little mouth. So, okay, let's, you know, use the physicality and try to come with, with, with something specific. But I, you know, for me, this is one of my favorite parts. Whenever you get to imagine, you know, based on what you see. And of course, at some point, I mean, a zombie is a zombie, right? There's a couple of sounds like you can, you can have a jawless zombie. Okay, I'm going to spend my entire, the entire recording session, my tongue hanging down to make sure that I don't have any lower lips movement. Movement, right? Or at some part, I played a lipless character. So I spend the entire recording session, you know, like this with no lips. So to avoid any lip movement, sometimes the character has something obstructing its mouth. So I record with a gag. I don't like it. It's not comfortable, but I did it. So. So, so that's sometimes the. Where we have to go to, to come as close as possible to, to whatever people have in mind. But it's always fun, like, to explore or. Because you already know, like, okay, this is a reptilian character. Reptilian. Think about Harry Potter meets Enemy Mine. You know, Louis Gossett Jr. When he did Enemy Mind. So, so you have that kind of parcel tongue quality to it. And then you have the vocal effect that has been used for some reptilian. But that's what I call vocal archetype. Basically, you know, when a sound becomes so attached to a specific character, it becomes part of its identity. You know, this is why, you know, one of the advice that I give people want to go into creature voice acting or, or actually doing a creature voice reel. If you cannot sustain the vocal effect for at least two hours, don't put that on your creature voice reel because that's going to be the minimal length of a recording session. And the thing is, if you lose the vocal effect, you lose the character because the vocal effect is intimately tied to the identity of a character. So if you can no longer sustain the vocal effect, good luck. Like, no amount of acting skill will save you. Like, okay, you can no longer do that and you lower your voice and you think that's a norc. No, it sounds like a Stupid, you know, cavern troll, that is.
- [56:09]
B
Yeah.
- [56:09]
A
It's not the same character at all. At all. So, so, so, you know, being knowledgeable about vocal archetype, what are the sound that are usually attached? Like I'm pretty sure if I ask you what's the sound of an evil witch?
- [56:24]
B
I'm thinking like wizard of Oz. I got.
- [56:26]
A
Exactly, exactly. And early Disney movies. And even to this date, when people think about an evil witch, that's what we have in mind. So at some point, you know, a sound became so popular and so used in different franchise and video game that it's ingrained in our mind and this is what we are expecting as consumer whenever. And, and for me, that's the same thing for a lot of character. If I ask you what's the voice of a norc, you close your eyes. Okay. It's guttural, it's slow, and he's probably speaking British. British or cockney. Right. Because of Lord of the Ring. This is what people are expecting. So when you go too far from that, you know, sometimes it's playing within people's expectation is actually a good thing.
- [57:15]
B
Yep.
- [57:16]
A
Specifically for that. So again, you need to consume a lot of video games and our movie and then sci fi movie to kind of have an idea of those vocal.
- [57:26]
B
Art frame of reference.
- [57:27]
A
Exactly.
- [57:29]
B
Tell me about the Monster Factory because I know you're doing a lot of stuff there. I know you do casting, I know you, you do the recordings. But I also know you do a lot of training. You, you work with voice actors on developing this technique, the skill set protecting the money maker.
- [57:42]
A
Yeah.
- [57:43]
B
If you're gonna do that sort of stuff. So, so tell me about some of the stuff that you got going on there at the Monster Factory.
- [57:50]
A
Well, non disclosure agreements apply. No, I'm joking.
- [57:54]
B
There's voice actors that are listening to this right now. They're like, okay, they're, they're in the space or they want to get into the space, they want to get better at it, they want to learn, they want to protect their voice. Maybe they've had some vocal fatigue or injury or something like that. I mean, I know you do all of that sort of stuff. You work, do workshops and stuff like that.
- [58:11]
A
We, we, I, I basically started with three workshop, four hour each and on specific, you know, on a specific side of creature voice acting. Right. Where we have a four hour workshop just on what is vocal stunt work. Vocal stunt and vocal health basically to where we talk about the science, the scientific research, the scientific studies. And then I have video to show vocal anatomy and liver part we're using for creature voice acting. There's another workshop only four or also four hours after that. We dive into what creature voice acting is and what are the things that we do. We look for whenever we have to do what we do. And there's another four hour workshop just on onos and grunts. Right. But these are for beginners. Basically. This gives you a very good overview of what doing vocal stunt work and creature voice acting is. Right. So that's. And then we have new workshop where we go into a little bit more deeper where we help the voice actors and actresses define the. The point of entry for the different vocal effects. So this is the one called Find the monster in you, basically, because the point of entry can differ from person to person. Again, not one size fits all. So. So if I ask you to do an exercise, maybe it's going to work, maybe it's going to be another exercise that will work for you to isolate and activate the specific things you need to isolate to. To do the vocal effect. Right. And then we add two more where I'm working with actors on video animation. So how to, you know, once you're a little bit more advanced, how do you look at the visual, what do you take from a video animation and how do you do all the variation on them, basically? And a new one, also called phonetic script, because you know, when I was talking at the beginning that there's no words. Basically we use vowel and consonant for everything at some point, you know, by doing it over and over, I've discovered that there are some vowel and consonant that better convey a specific action. You know, I've heard, for example, I've heard, oh, you know, if I want to do variation, I'd just go through the Alphabet. I was like, that's not accurate. Like if you try an attack dynamic and you just think, let's go through the Alphabet. If I do an attack with B, if I do an attack with D, D. If I do an attack with fa, it doesn't sound like an attack, right? You have to, you have to use R, K and nah J, ts, right? So after doing it over and over at some point I was like, hey, you know, those are good. Whenever I need to do pain, there's a ah and then I can switch the last vowel. So I came up with a system called phonetic script. Basically, phonetic script is a written script for onos and grunts that I can use whenever I do a human or a creature. So this can serve as a guide to, to go through the variation. Because the problem, a lot of time that I've encountered when I started is that you have to come up with your own script. Imagine, imagine asking all actors to come up with their own script all the time. It's insane, right? Of course you can improvise, but at some point like so it becomes a very tedious mental process. Right. So, so, so, so to, to, to be able to focus on the performance. You know, a lot of time we have the script right there, we look at the script and we deliver the performance. And for me that's the exact same thing, but it's for oh nos and grunts. So I have a phonetic script, it's all written down and I show people how to use it, how to learn it, how to make it sound realistic and how to produce variation without, you know, having to think about it. Because you have to deliver performance and you have to think about the script at the same time for three hours at some point like you're getting lost in a sea of sound. So this is why I developed that. And even when we record sound libraries, it's pretty useful because it provides consistent variation.
- [62:35]
B
It's so crazy, it's. Watching you do it so naturally is actually probably been my favorite part of this. But I'll tell you what the thing that I also found fascinating. You said there's like less than 1% are actually using human voice actors. Which to me says there is such a massive upside potential.
- [62:52]
A
Yeah.
- [62:53]
B
If you can convince even just a couple of studios or, and, and just the sheer amount of gaming content and that's getting created now. Right. Like it's, there's. I don't think there's ever been more video games in existence. So there's a market there, there's a market there that just needs to understand what it is that a human brings to the table. And if they watch you doing what you do, they would, they would understand because that looks. I would so much rather sit in a session with you than scroll through 200 friggin CDs of animal sound effects trying to find the right stupid effect for that. Just to me feels like a complete waste of time now watching, watching you do this. So Sebastian, this has been absolutely amazing, incredibly insightful and I'm sure that there are going to be some people that are going to want to check out what you're doing at Monster Factory to find out a little bit more about it and dig a little bit deeper into it.
- [63:40]
A
Well, thank you so much for, for the invitation. Yeah, I, for me Every opportunity that is giving to me so I get given to me so I can talk about what I love to do and, and a little bit about what goes into it and the craft of creature voice acting, the craft of vocal effect. You know, for me it's always, as you can imagine, a pleasure. If you look at, you know, those.
- [64:04]
B
Eyes, it is in your face. I can see it in your face. You do not look like a grumpy death metal singer.
- [64:11]
A
Well, you know, on stage, right. When it, when, when I'm in character, of course I'm going to look the part. Sure, right. And it's the same for creature voice acting is the same for acting. You have to get in the part. The only difference is the part I play is, you know, a zombie, a demon, a cute little furry creature, or a big one, or a beast, or an orc, or someone dying, you know, dead by daylight.
- [64:42]
B
If somebody wants to find out more, check out the website for Monster Factory. What, what, where do we go? What's the website?
- [64:48]
A
The website ww themonster/factory.com we also, like you mentioned, have a YouTube channel. We're on social media. You can follow us. Have more news because I just finished filming 12 new video about different topics for, you know, Monster Factory. So they're going to be released in the upcoming weeks. We just, we're going to release one next week but, but the other one that mostly out to build stamina. You know, sometime we give as much as information as we can give to the community so they can learn more about about it. You know, that video on our YouTube channel is a free 45 minutes video done by a voice therapist on vocal health. That's crazy, you know.
- [65:30]
B
Well, we will put all of the links in the show notes so that everybody can find and be able to access and check out all of that because like I said, I was watching some of the stuff and it's fascinating. There's a whole entire education that is sitting there right on the YouTube channel for sure.
- [65:43]
A
Absolutely. Well, thanks for having me, Mark, again. I appreciate that a lot. The everyday Veopreneur podcast available everywhere. Find podcasts are given away for free mostly. We think having your voiceover demos easily.
- [65:57]
B
Playable and downloadable on your website is essential. The VoiceZam player lets you do that.
- [66:02]
A
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- [66:04]
B
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- [66:19]
A
To claim this offer, visit voicesam.com markscott and scene. And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for hanging out. Want more? Veopreneur Goodness. Jump online@veopreneur.com.