A (1:57)

So, yeah, here we are.

B (2:00)

It's interesting because I've heard about you so much. I don't know that we've ever met, though. I Mean, maybe we've crossed paths at.

A (2:07)

Like, the Olymp or something like that, very, very briefly. And, like, hey, man, thanks for being so nice to Sam Damiano and helping her with so much out and, like. So it's. It's been that as well. But obviously I've heard lots about you from Sam and just your reputation precedes you, so it's. Yeah. I'm really excited that we get a chance to hang out. And thank you to anybody who was the bug in Mark's ear that thinks I'm nice and funny and. And kind. If you want to text me, My phone number is 9 1. I'm just kidding, but thank you so much. It's so kind. I appreciate you having me on. I'm really excited.

B (2:42)

I will tell you the one thing that when I was trying to do research, and by the way, I don't know how you have managed to build the business that you have built and still be. You're like, almost a mystery online, really. I can find you. I can find, you know, I find social media or whatever, but I could. I was, like, trying to find out about Tim. There's so little out there, actually. But there were a few things that popped up. And I'll tell you, one of the things that popped up was I need to know more about the dorky musical theater kid that still lives inside of you.

A (3:17)

Mark that's on my rider is the only thing I will not talk about.

B (3:21)

That was the one thing. I have two daughters who used to be in dance, and I used to have to go to all of these dance competitions and. And stuff. And, you know, and when they were intense, quite quite young, and a lot of it, I'm like, oh, my gosh, why am I sitting here for this? But the musical theater kids were always so awesome. I loved watching the musical theater kids and doing all the things that they're doing, you know, do Mary Poppins and all this cool stuff. And I was like, oh, Tim's a musical theater. There's. He says there's a dorky musical theater guy living inside of him still. I want somewhere deep in there, more about that guy.

A (3:56)

Yeah, all right. He's lonely. He's very. No. Yeah. So I am a certified musical theater dork. That was really where I got most. I started out doing improv as a kid and doing that all the way through, up through high school and started doing musicals end of middle school into high school, and it just was something I really enjoyed doing. I played sports all growing up. I've Always loved to move. I love watching sports, playing them, and then found dance in high school and quit the soccer team freshman year to go do the musical instead. And that's what it was really. The. The end from there on out. Went to school for musical theater down at Texas State University. I, I, yeah, I don't know. I just, I loved it because it felt really challenging, and I. You get bullied a little bit, like, from travel, soccer team, calling you not nice names and names that will not repeat on the podcast. But it just kind of fueled the flame of, like, man, y' all don't even know. It's. This is one of the most athletic and challenging things. We're just running in soccer. We gotta run and sing at the same time, smile till it hurts your cheeks and act and lift people. So it's a little bit different, but it's. I, yeah, I have not done a musical in a very, very long time. Just when my wife and I moved to New York City to pursue that after college in 2014, some back issues of mine had taken that away. And I won't go all the way into that because I feel like it's a story I've told a lot, but we can dig in however you see fit. It's actually how I got my start in VO was I was doing musical theater, auditioning for all of that health issues, came in and literally took my legs out from underneath me and found. Found the mic and a 3x3 closet in our apartment in Queens. And Dar. She blows. But I still love to get to sing whenever I get the chance to for auditions and little things here and there. It's mostly, you know, singing creed at karaoke or doing my Jack Black singing for things. But I like it. It's fun.

B (6:08)

I was in my 30s, I think, when I finally got cable. I lived in a small town. We didn't have cable. And I remember discovering Turner Classic Movies. And, I mean, if there was a Fred and Ginger movie on, I was watching a Fred and Ginger movie or Gene Kelly. I loved watching Gene Kelly. So when you're telling me you're a musical theater guy, are you like, is like Broadway guy, or are you like, no, like, yeah, give me a Fred and Ginger. Give me a. Give me a Gene Kelly and a Sinatra.

A (6:40)

It's all of it, you know, I really, I started to fall in love with it as a kid. I watched TCM with both sides of my family's grandparents, and they were always just. All those movies were on all the time. I so vividly Remember seeing Singing in the Rain for the first time and just being like, wow, somebody can do that with their feet. It was, yeah, I mean everything in it, it was just I wanted to do that. I wanted to be part of it and do it. And it's a hard and brutal industry, but it's really fun. And I don't know, it's the Broadway shows too.

B (7:18)

It's.

A (7:20)

I've been so far removed, it feels like for so long that like I really, I don't even know what everything is that's on Broadway right now. But I still have friends in shows, various shows here and there and I still like to consume it all. And right now, I mean if we're, if you can consider it musical theaters, musical tv, K Pop, demon hunters on nonstop in my head like I'm an 11 year old. But it's fun, it's just, it's a different way of storytelling and when done well, it really is, I think a just purely from like all of the music, like a vibrational standpoint, if we're going to get a little crunchy granola and sciency at the same time. But just having all of those people in one room in the audience and then you add the orchestra when you have the opportunity to have a live orchestra and all the bodies up on stage. And when you're singing, singing is a wildly vulnerable thing. Especially if you're like me and you get really self conscious about the way you sound all the time. But it's. It just changes you. It's a different experience. It's almost spiritual. It's like going out in nature. You can feel the vibration of the world around you in a different way. And when you're in a shared experience with people and you're witnessing people who have this gift of singing and storytelling and acting this way, it's really special. And so it was hard not to follow that shiny object.

B (8:45)

Have you seen Spirited?

A (8:48)

Yes.

B (8:48)

Will Ferrell and Ryan Reynolds?

A (8:50)

Oh my gosh, you can kiss my Dickens son. When that.

B (8:53)

The first time that I watched that I was like, this might be one of the greatest Christmas movies that has ever been made. And I can listen to that soundtrack in the car when I'm driving. And I still, every Christmas I will put that soundtrack on. And I mean, I'm not an emotional guy. I actually talk a lot about the fact that I'm completely emotionally stunted. I think 17 years on a fire department repressing all of my feelings and everything. And I will list to that soundtrack. And it just brings out this emotion in me. Right?

A (9:23)

You want to make a ripple? Yeah.

B (9:25)

Yeah. I just think that we don't spontaneously break out into song enough. Like. And. And I say that it sounds like a really, you know, sarcastic, smart thing to say, but I like, man, it's the Muppets.

A (9:38)

It is, right? It's fun. It's something that my wife, Jess and I do all the time in our house. Anybody who has a dog or any. Or a kid, and you're singing to it. It's. We're making stuff up all the time right now. It's the demon hunter songs with replacing everything that rhymes with Stu, our dog's name. And. Yeah, I think it's. It is very fun.

B (9:58)

It's.

A (9:59)

It's been an interesting. Like, I feel like I have some unfinished business with Stage World and all of that, because I felt like it kind of got taken or just got put on pause. I don't think I ever really said no. But now, running a couple businesses and seeing how much of my brain and my life that takes, I'm like, all right, maybe it's okay that I'm not wrecking my body doing a show eight times a week somewhere around the world.

B (10:26)

I feel like it's an underappreciated thing. And I think maybe that's just because if you're watching tcm back in the day, right, it felt like everything was a musical, and now it's like, so how often do you turn on the TV or turn on Netflix or whatever, and there's a musical, right? And so when. When Apple came out with spirited, Netflix did Jingle Jangle, which was one of their Christmas musicals, and that was really sweet. Dolly Parton, Christmas in the Square. Like, there was a few. And I was like, we're coming back. We're. We're. We're bringing this back. Like, I don't know. I actually think it's a really fun. I mean, I'm never going to do it, obviously. I have no talent to sing and dance.

A (11:03)

I'd say never, ever. But I will absolutely.

B (11:05)

I would absolutely be the. Be the guy sitting in the audience. I'm like, man. And I said, the Muppets. Like, it's. I don't know. How can. How can you watch the Muppets and not just be smiling all the time when they're just spontaneously breaking out into song or dance or whatever? That feels like a good way to live.

A (11:22)

Yeah, I agree. Having lived in that world a little bit, not as a Muppet yet.

B (11:30)

I want to help you be a Better marketer. That's my goal. I want to help you be a better marketer. I know what learning how to market did for my voiceover business and that is why I've spent more than a decade working with other voice actors, helping them to become better marketers as well. And that's where Veopreneur.com came from. There are so many resources on that website that are all designed to help you be a more confident and effective marketer. And I'm talking about free resources like this podcast. Over 300 episodes to download free resources like Free Advice Friday, my weekly livestream on YouTube, but premium resources as well, including guides, workshops, masterclasses, and private one on one coaching. All of these things designed to make you a better marketer so that you can grow your voiceover business. If you need help in this area, the business and marketing side of voiceover, please go and check out theopreneur.com that's theopreneur.com now back to our show. Tell me about the transition from musical theater into voiceover. I mean, I know you said that back injury kind of caused you to have to get out of musical theater. You don't have to go deeply into it, but it's still an interesting transition to be going from song and dance into voiceover. So how did you discover voiceover, I guess is the question. And what caused you to think, yeah, I'm gonna walk this road?

A (12:57)

Yeah. Well, it all started back in 1994 when I first saw Ace Ventura. No, the transition was, at first I was really scared because I felt like, okay, cool. I've just been told by doctors, no more dance, no more stage, no more anything like that. But. And I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. This has just been my only goal for my entire life. So cried about it for a day. And then I had actually heard about just voiceover as a viable option. My wife and I were on a tour of Jekyll and Hyde around all of South Korea. And we had some castmates that we knew before who had told me before the tour, they're like, hey man, you should, when you get back, you should start looking into voiceover. I think, you know, stop annoying all of us with your dumb voices and all of that and put it to use and maybe make some money. I was like, okay, cool, that sounds nice. And then it wasn't until after we had gotten back that I really started to look into it and I took a five week class with Andy Roth in the city. We were living in New York at the Time.

B (14:01)

And.

A (14:03)

Within the first, like 20 minutes, I was like, oh, shoot, this is the gig I get to. When I went to musical theater school, like, I was so focused on fitting in this box of being marketable or, like, what people wanted me to be or what they thought I should be. And that's a whole other story about finding yourself and really like, finding your true authentic self. But it. I really found that it. All of the skills, skills or stupid human tricks that I do had kind of fallen to the side while I was training in school. And it really came flooding back in that class. And so I got a taste of that. Then the back injury stuff was just a really unfortunate luck of the draw. Genetically with early degenerative disc disease. Had two herniated discs in my lower back from 2010 all the way through 2020 and 2021, I had surgery that put an artificial disc in and fusion at the level below it. Since then, I've been relatively okay. Last or in 2024, I had a really gnarly flare up that lasted from like March to September. Learned a lot of new things and. And now I'm training for a hyrox functional movement race. So. Yeah, but the transition, I think because of how physical theater and dance are and having the experience and a little bit of experience in film and tv, nothing that anybody would have seen. And all the training from theater and dance, the physicalization work that comes with really anything from commercial to elearning to animation and video games, really helped me find my way in. And it all really opened my imagination in a way that I hadn't felt like I'd been able to in live action performance.

B (16:01)

You're doing all these voices, you have all of these characters, all of these things from your musical theater days. You might be the first person that I have ever known with a 1980s German alter ego.

A (16:17)

Oh, yeah. Oh, Mark, you're so flattering.

B (16:22)

I fell down the Instagram rabbit hole, my friend.

A (16:30)

Oh, man.

B (16:32)

Where did that come from?

A (16:34)

Okay, wow. We got to take this back. So I think the first time. So his name is Dieter Untz. And I think the first time that he came to be was, I think 2023 vocation retreat was in Costa Rica. Okay. And at VO Atlanta that year, Karin had asked if I would be able to come in and fill in a lunch, like a lunch session speaker slot. And I was like, oh, my God, yeah, that sounds great. It's over my birthday weekend, Costa Rica. My wife can come and she said, just let us know if you have any branding or merch that you want to hand out. And I was like, oh, right, merch. What do I make for a conference? And I was thinking about all the things that I've got, and I was like, what's something really different that we could make that I haven't seen anybody make yet for a conference that would fit me as a pasty white guy from the Midwest and being in Costa Rica for a week, I was like, a hat? No, they're going to make a hat. Sunglasses? No, they're going to have sunglasses. What about sunscreen? And so I made. Oh, actually there's one on the floor.

B (17:46)

I made.

A (17:49)

This. It's called Freckle and Burn by thc. Keep calm and lather on Nice. And I've gotten messages from people that they still have these and that it's actually a really good sunscreen. I didn't make it. I found a place online. But so with that, I didn't want it to just be this thing of, like, I don't. People. People still getting to know who I am and how do I make this? How do I show, like, the version of myself that is authentic but a little bit goofy, but still attention grabbing. And I was like. I was looking around my office and I've got. I've got these sunglasses. I have this random gold Lemay vest for something or. Oh, I bought the vest. I bought the vest for the Glow Party at. Costa Rica. So I was like, how do I make this video? And I was like, okay, I think I can make this.

B (18:40)

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (18:41)

This is Dieter unt. And we're going to speak in German. And I don't know how to speak German, but we'll take a couple words. And so I put on the vest and I found this hat in my closet and these my favorite sunglasses, and turned off all the lights in my studio and just tried to see what I could come up with. And he just kind of came out. And now it's. It's a whole thing in our little vo, this, our corner of the VO world of VO Atlanta and OVC and stuff like that. And Brigid Real said that she's collecting all the THC Infinity Stones of merch. Like the clicker. And so I made that one as well, which is a dog clicker for audiobook narrators for the Audiobook Bonanza side of my company.

B (19:25)

Yep.

A (19:25)

And yeah, I made some doodle sticks and a coloring pad for my talk at One Voice, which was just doodle sticks or just crayons. It's finding things that finding everyday things, I make this really dumb. Like me. Um, so it's. That's been a really fun, random thing and I'm hoping it. I also have been able to put it to use for money as well with. I got a text from a friend who said their agent was looking for somebody to. Who could yodel and have a Swiss German accent for a couple of ski spots for some slopes out west.

B (20:03)

It's a very specific direction.

A (20:05)

If that's not freaking me, then I don't know what. So I ended up booking it and they were like, okay, so can you do some like, professional level yodeling for us? Like some faster stuff at the end of this? I was like, I can try. But yeah. So it's. I don't know. I've been really trying in the creative process to just like, not take myself seriously. But whatever I do put out there, let it be polished, let it be a cohesive thing. And. And unse is one of those things. And if, you know, Leah Hoffman, her daughter Sila calls me Uncle Unt and so Uncle UNT has been making the rounds at all the conferences.

B (20:43)

Yeah, I have a feeling there's going to be a few more people going and checking out your Instagram who, if they. If they weren't already familiar with this. I felt I'm not really like one to fall down an Instagram rabbit hole, but I fell down your Instagram rabbit hole for a while and I was like, this guy's crazy. This is. I mean, I was having a lot of fun.

A (21:02)

Fun is what we're going for.

B (21:04)

Yeah, there is some serious creativity on there, no question about it.

A (21:08)

Thank you.

B (21:10)

You mentioned that you've found a way to turn some of this into money, which that happens to be one of the other things that came up about you, other than being the Hallmark leading man guy, but also being very entrepreneurial. I want to learn more about that. Where did the entrepreneur side come from? Because usually the two things are different, Right? The creative and the entrepreneur. They're like opposite sides of the brain. So to have both of them and put them together, where did that start?

A (21:40)

It. Honestly, it all felt like kind of an accident. When we were in New York and I was looking at people on Broadway and our friends on Broadway, and there were a couple of people in the industry who had been ensemble members and in the chorus for a lot of shows and have just. Or would go out on tour and bank and then they would start a side business. I was like, oh, man, I wish I was smart like that or I could do that or had the opportunity to make that much money to start a business, and. Which is very obviously not the entrepreneurial mindset. And then when I started doing voiceover, I started seeing. I started feeling this sense of agency that I felt like I'd been missing over my own creative career and my own income and all of that with going out on auditions for shows that would pay me or for contracts that would pay me $300 a week to not sleep in the same bed as my wife and do three shows in rap and make, you know, nothing. And so when I started seeing that, I just, I was like, great, I can just do more and more and more. And then it was like, okay, now how can we do more smarter? Then Covid hit all of this. Mind you, I had no idea about the voice actors of New York City group or your group or anything like that, any of these communities. That probably would have made my life a little bit easier and been less of me taking handfuls of pasta and throwing it at the wall. But I learned during COVID how to really write cringy marketing emails for myself and would just write 50 of them a day and pick a city and. And a genre and just go. And then. And that worked a little bit. And then in 2022, we had been so, end of 2020, my wife and I moved back to the Austin area. We went to college down here. And I got connected to a client here that I still work with, Clint Greenleaf at Content Capital. Awesome, awesome folks there. And they had seen on LinkedIn that one of a friend of theirs had hired me to do an audio book. And they said, we just signed this deal with Forbes to produce all their. A bunch of audiobooks. Would you want to read some? And I said, oh, no, thanks. Thank you though. That ROI doesn't match my adhd, but I can build a machine of people that would help do this. I've got friends that are really good at it, and audiobooks are their main bag. I've got engineers I've worked with on all kinds of projects around the world. What if I build the system and you guys white label it and you let me fail forward through the first five or six, and if you like it, great. If you don't, no hard feelings and we can stay in touch on other things. And much to my surprise, it worked. And I really tried to draw from experience, good experiences I've had in theater, tv, VO and bad experience I've had in all of those genres as well, and try to Build something that was really human focused and just was like, all right, we're not messing around here. We want to make high, high quality stuff so that we all keep getting more work. But also if you're sick, you're sick. Don't worry about it, don't stress. This is flexible. I think, you know, it's. Yeah. So that, that all happened. I ran all of that by myself for about a two years and then realized I needed help more. So my wife said you can't keep doing all of this all the time and doing VO full time and managing all these books. You're starting at 6 in the morning and not ending until like 9 at night. So yeah, I need, I need you back. And so I got really fortunate and got to meet Sam Damiano through VA for VO and brought her on. And then about a month in, my back started to flare up and I was like, all right, baptism by fire, Sam. I said I wanted somebody long term partner to help me run audiobook production and it's happening now and she's really just taken it and run with it and she's also pushed me to be become a better entrepreneur and a better CEO of learning how to shift what my duties are day to day and learning more so how to let go and get out of the business and just be like not in the business but on the business and looking at the bigger picture of things. And so now that's starting to shift with just talking to other people and joining an entrepreneur group here in Austin. When we first moved down here, that was no one was in the creative industry. It was all tech finance, crypto, all of that. But it really opened my eyes to different ways of thinking as like both good and bad and showed me how I don't want to operate and how I do and what it takes to reach a certain level. And while nobody's doing what I'm doing exactly in those groups, you can take what works and save the rest for later. Which is what I always like to tell people when they're getting started in VO and all the different inputs that come in.

B (26:37)

I don't know if you know this or not. I'm sure you probably do. Sam's probably told you, but part of what I am famous for, maybe that's not the right word, but from the very beginning I swore that audiobooks was the one thing that I would never, ever, ever do. Like I would not even look at it. I wouldn't consider it, I wouldn't think about it. I have massive respect for audiobook narrators. And I have always talked about that. I think that it takes a special kind of person to be an audiobook narrator. And I just don't, I don't think that I'm, I'm that kind of person. But now here I am. I've submitted a couple of audiobook auditions for you, and, and it was the Forbes thing that did it because I'm actually that guy that reads Forbes magazine cover to cover every month and, and always have. I. That's. I mean, when Apple News plus came out, I was one of the first guys to sign up for the subscription so I could get access to Forbes, Forbes and Fortune and Inc. And Entrepreneur and all of these magazines. And I was like, okay, there's no scenario in the world where I would ever do audiobooks. But if I was going to, yeah, if I was going to, it would be non fiction, it would be business books. And, and when Sam first mentioned it to me, I was like, are you. No. And now I'm like, so I don't know if she's told you this part, but I was like, sam, you know, it's going to happen in 2026. She's like, like, what's that? I said, we're going to fracture the collective mind of the entire industry. I said, not only am I going to book an audiobook, but we're going to win an award for an audiobook in 2026, and we're literally going to melt down the whole industry.

A (28:09)

Mark's on an audiobook. Yeah.

B (28:12)

This is the beginning of the apocalypse. I think I had pitched, I had.

A (28:16)

Pitched like a breakout for a conference and not happening this year, but maybe at some point, or maybe I'll just hold a little Zoom webinar. But of that's called I don't do audiobooks. Because the number of people that I have heard from, friends of mine and folks like you included that are like, nah, man, I don't do audiobooks. Thanks for asking, but I'm good. That are now doing audiobooks with us or elsewhere. I remember talking with do you know Rob Marrera up in New York? He, he and I were pretty close friends early on, and I had asked him, he was one of the first people I'd reached out to because I was like, hey, I think you've done some books. And he's like, I don't do a whole lot, but I'll do a couple here. And now he's like the fourth wing guy. So it's, it's fun to see and it's just, I think more so for me. I get. I get so much excitement out of being able to hire my friends. It's. It honestly kind of outpaces the excitement I get from bookings because it's like I get to pair my friend, who's a talented narrator with my friend who's a talented engineer and all connected by my friend, who is just a talented human being, Samantha Damiano, and bring it all together and hopefully create some meaningful income and repeat clients. And as this grows, more and more opportunities for folks to fill in the. The bumpy sections of income throughout the year. My goal is to, for myself and others, to help smooth it out a little bit.

B (29:48)

One of the things that I have always said about this industry, regardless of what genre, is when you connect to the script, regardless of whether it's a commercial or an elearning or a medical or an audiobook or whatever. But when you connect to the script, it makes it so much easier, right when I'm. When I'm going in and I'm talking about something that I would normally have a conversation about or I have some sort of connection to or whatever. And that's one of the reasons why I think I always enjoyed Elearning so much, because I'm that guy that wants to sit down and learn something new every day. And I'm sitting here reading elearning scripts on cybersecurity or advertising or all these things. I'm like, man, this is awesome. It's like, I just love that. And so if you had came to me and said, you know, I want you to audition for my romance novels, I told you to take a flying leap.

A (30:32)

But. But when you never know. There could be a Forbes that's like relationships in the workplace, but. Oh, and I also want to be very clear, I'm not in any way taking credit for Rob Marrera's, like, massive success in the audiobook world. He's. That was just one example of resistance to, hey, yeah.

B (30:54)

You know what? This is the natural evolution of the industry too, though, is staying open to new opportunities that present themselves. And I mean, this is a. We're in an ever evolving industry, I think, particularly now. AI I just had a conversation, literally today, I just had a conversation with a client that I've been working with for years, producing stuff at a very high level. The kind of person that you would never think AI would be a factor. And she's like, I hate my job. I hate my job because it's become AI and that's all they want is AI and, and I don't. This is not what I want to do. And this. And I'm. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Because my, my whole thing all along has been, okay, well, AI is going to probably take the lower end, right? It's going to cannibalize the lower end. Sort of like Fiverr did when it first came onto the scene. But the really high level, you know, high budget creative stuff that's, you know, running at network levels and stuff like that, that's the stuff that's going to be safe. And like, that's exactly the kind of stuff that, that they're doing. And so part of what I am on the lookout for, and I think every voice actress should be on the lookout for, is where her. Where is the opportunity, where will the opportunity to continue to exist? If audiobooks is one of those places, yeah, I'm going to sit down, I'm going to look at audiobooks. If it's something else, I mean, I'm diving deep into commercial right now, working on commercial coaching, working on a new commercial demo because it's not an area that I've focused on a lot in the past, but there's opportunity there. And so it's staying open to, to what may be out there. But yeah, never, never in a million years did I think that I would be.

A (32:28)

And I'd like to say too, that auditioning for audiobooks, this is not blowing smoke. But Sam was so Sam had written me an email. She was like, hey, would it be okay if I, like, had Mark Scott submit on this? I was just like, listen, anybody that you want that you think is good, send them through. We're gonna listen and give everybody a fair shot. And I was also thinking like, oh, of course, like, that would make sense. Mark is like the vo preneur. So. And we got your auditions in and she sent me the breakdown after the first pass and she was like, I left marks in. I think it's really good. I just want to get your thoughts on it. I went in, listen, I was just like, he's freaking born to narrate these titles. So it's. And at the end of the day too, it's not up to me who gets the job. And as I know a lot of talent know, but your reads are super strong and there's no reason not to be doing audiobooks, except if it feels like pulling teeth and you don't like doing them, then you know, then you know, that's it.

B (33:20)

And when I, when I opened up the first couple that she sent and I started reading, I'm like, okay, I would sit down and read this book. Like, yeah, this is the type of book if I was going to the library or I was shopping on Book Outlet or looking at something from Amazon and I'm like, this is the kind of book that I would, that I would absolutely pick up. And so it's been, it's been interesting to be on this journey.

A (33:42)

Yeah, it's awesome. I love, I love hearing everybody who said that they don't do audiobooks come and do stuff. And also the people who do audiobooks really, really well and on a regular basis. I'm learning constantly and just trying to make this, the whole process, start to finish, feel fun and easy, especially for people who don't do audiobooks and try to make this a really accessible thing. Because you hear horror stories about, or I've heard mildly horror stories around actors who are getting paid 100 bucks per finished hour to narrate and pay an editor or edit themselves and master everything when they don't know how to do that. And it's really rough. And so I was like, no actors should be coming to the booth and just doing that job. We need to make sure that you have your space. We need high quality recording and we can hear it the second you start recording if you have like major compression or plugins going that are altering that space or whatever it is. But it's really trying to give grace back into this system that it feels like is just so if you're not perfect and spot on every time, then you're done or you're not considered again. It's like we. There's space for grace in everything that we do and we're trying to, trying to improve it all as we go and as things grow too and different projects come in. But yeah, it's fun.

B (35:00)

I want to talk more about something you said a few minutes ago about being. Working on the business, but not specifically being in the business. Because I think this is an area where there are a lot of voice actors who maybe know they need help or have thought about. It would be nice to have help, but it's not a natural thing for a lot of us because I've talked before that from a very young age we're taught how to be employees, not employers. And so, you know, the idea of hiring someone is like, what? That's so. That's so foreign or thinking that you're in a position in your business where you could have an assistant or whatever, but you're a guy who's running two very successful businesses at a scale that is not sustainable as an individual. And so it's forced you to have to do some of this stuff. So I would love to hear more about, I guess when did you first realize I need some help? And how did you go about deciding where to look for it, how to go through that process? Just curious about that whole side of it.

A (36:13)

Yeah, well, very kind and generous of you to say successful businesses at this. Neither have gone under and they're both in the black. So I will take that as a sign of success. And it does cost a lot of money to grow businesses and figure all of that out. So I'm on the wave and I'm enjoying the ride. I think the first time I realized I needed help was about a year before I ended up hiring Sam. I was looking at everything and when my wife was talking to me about like, hey, you need to kind of figure out how to do this, and not so much time during the day. I think, honestly, it was that March of 2024, I was doing Mandy Fisher's web conference that she did after VO Atlanta, and Brad Hyland was on there and talking about his. How Miranda was helping him with his day to day. And I just, I was like, hey, can I just. Could I book you for an hour to just pick your brain about assistance and stuff like that? And he really encouraged me to just go for it and just know, like, I was so afraid to part with any money thinking that, like, oh, my God, I feel like everything is just going into credit cards and bills and I've got credit card debt because it takes clients forever to get money to me. And like, and we have a house and houses are always breaking. So. But it was that kind of push out of the nest that I was like, you know what? I'm going to try this for a year. You could even say to yourself, I'm going to try it for a quarter. And if I don't see a positive return in this, then I know that I can change and pivot and try something different. It's not the end of the world. And I think. And obviously Sam is Sam and everything worked out great, but it's really hard to ask. I've found it really hard to ask for help, even if it's not with just like a task or an admin task or anything like that, or keeping a business running, but even like reaching out to people, be like, hey, would it be possible for you to introduce me to this person? Or, hey, would you. I'm just. I'm struggling with yada, yada, yada in my studio, or I'm figured trying to figure out where to go next with. With this genre. And I've always just been kind of somebody who figure it out by myself and just do it, and it's not the way to do it. Friends, there are some things you do need to do that for, but it's not always. But yeah, it's anybody who's feeling like they're struggling and they need help, it's really. I thought I was organized for an ADHD person, but I really was not. And hiring somebody will show you the gaps in your systems and show really, like, I have learned so much about time management, communication, learning how to really streamline things and eliminate unnecessary steps and tasks through all of this. And now that my wife Jasmine is on and everybody who's listening to this will eventually get to meet her as well. As we come around all the parties, she's stepping into it. And that's also bringing a whole new level of learning and exposing really where, like, I really shining a light on where I need to improve as. As a leader and a friend and partner in all of this. Just because my goal with this is to build this to a point where if somebody were to say, hey, I want to buy this portion. I want to buy audiobook Bonanza from you, that I'd be able to say, yep, great. Here's the Bible, here's sops go. And now, obviously, that's a lot easier said than done. And we're doing. I'm really, really fortunate that Sam has been on the team for a while. My wife is just wickedly smart and so organized and having those different perspectives come in to look at your business, too, even if it's somebody that you see once a month, you could have, you know, an assistant come in and just be like, hey, all right, I need you to look through my email systems. How does everything look? Great. No, bad.

B (40:16)

Great.

A (40:17)

Let's fix it and we'll move on.

B (40:19)

There's something to be said for having that outside perspective, and I think every one of us needs that. I mean, I'm the business and marketing guy. It's literally what I teach voice actors to do. But every once in a while, having somebody on the outside look at what I'm doing because I'm too close to my own stuff, helping me to find a gap that I or an area where I could improve or something like that, there's so much value in that I get nervous about talking about Sam too much, though, because I'm worried that other people are going to try to steal her. So we, you know, we got to be careful about talking her up too much, you know? Yeah.

A (40:50)

Yeah. Anybody out there? Sam is. I can't say anything bad, but it's. Yeah. So it's. It's not just finding a Sam, but it's really. It's. It's taking a good, hard look at. At everything that you're doing and a good, hard look at where you want to be or what you. What you want to be doing and being really honest with yourself about what it takes to be there and that outside perspective. It's hard when you. When you have worked so hard every day to build this little thing, to have somebody come in and say, and you're like, hey, look at this thing. Tell me how it's working and how it's not working. And I really hope you say it's working really well. But it's. It's hard to take that advice. But it's. It's so necessary if you want to grow and you want to see the success or reach the next level of where that is. And everybody has a different level of success. And I have this annoying voice in the back of my head that says, you gotta keep going until you hit the top. And it's like, well, what's the top?

B (41:54)

Yeah. What was the first thing that you decided to let go of? Was it something intentional? You were like, I can't do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore? Or was it something where somebody came in and said, I can help you with that?

A (42:07)

So when I was initially interviewing for assistant, I don't. I hate calling Sam my assistant because she's not that. She's such a close friend, and she's a wicked talent, and she's just. She's a true collaborator.

B (42:19)

Yeah.

A (42:20)

And so I was looking for somebody who could help me with getting a CRM going because I had a really janky spreadsheet and was really not marketing a whole lot. I was happy with the income I was getting from representatives and stuff like that and private clients I had for a little bit. But I was like, I should probably do this too. And then. And so she came on to do that. But then with audiobooks, I really needed to get so back to the getting out of the business and just getting and looking on the business is. I knew that if I wanted to grow things, I could not be handling every single task and every single email and every single step of project management that it takes to get an audiobook done. And there's a lot and all that. There are so many different variables, depending on who the author is, what genre it is, how many narrators there are, where they're based in the world, what their publisher is, if they're independent, all these different things. And. And so I just. I was on the phone with Sam for, like, probably a week straight. We were on Zoom and just saying, like, this is, you know, my goal for. My goal by the end of, you know, X amount of time is that I am looking at things but not acting on them. And you are taking charge of that. And so. And it's also been a learning curve for me because I'm so used to stepping in and just taking care of stuff that Sam has actually had to give me the feedback of, like, hey, I got this. Like. Like, you stepping in is actually muddying this up. And I was like, oh, right, I just need to be the fly on the wall.

B (43:48)

What an awkward conversation to have. But at the same time, what a blessing to have someone have that conversation with you.

A (43:52)

And I just, like, I told her straight up when we. When we first started talking and working together, I was just like, look, I'm not in this to have smoke blown up my butt. Like, I. I know who I am and I know who I'm not. And I'm not somebody big and fancy. I'm not somebody that everybody knows. But, like, I just want this to work. And I want whoever works with us to want to come back. And whenever they get an email from their agent or from us directly that says THC and publisher or independent or whatever it may be, that they're like, yes, that job is worth my time. Because I know that those people are going to treat me with respect. I know that the pay is as fair as they can get it, and not that that sells us a little short. I don't work with people who can't afford our base rates to pay our talent. And so it's just. I knew what I wanted everything to feel like and I wanted it to look like. And Sam was able to take what I had built, improve upon it. And now my wife, Jess is able. Is doing that actively. And, like, her first day was technically December 2nd, but we had a lot of travel and stuff going on, so it was like, Monday was her first day, and we had a new author reach out to us by referral that was like, I've got this book and oh, P.S. i'm writing a second book that's coming out this year and a third book that I want you guys to do. I was like, huh, great.

B (45:06)

This is the stuff that I find so interesting is just understanding how other people have come to the decision making process. For me, I have trust issues, right. And I falsely think believe I can just do it better myself or faster myself or whatever. Right? And those are the things that make it hard sometimes to let go. But then at the same time, when Brad Hyland convinced me to give Voice123 another shot and he's like, mark, look, I'm gonna tell you straight up, if you're not going to do your profile, do the SEO, like all the optimization, like, don't waste your time, it's pointless. And I'm like, there is a less than 0% chance that I'm going to do any of that. And so then when he put me in touch with Sam and I was like, sam, here's the deal. Take my password, do whatever the heck voodoo magic you have to do. I don't want to know about it. You don't have to ask me about it, you don't have to talk to.

A (46:06)

Me, just do it.

B (46:07)

Because I don't understand it. I don't want to deal with it. What a blessing to be able to just hand that off to somebody and then go from completely unfound and unranked anywhere to being page one on a dozen different searches in 24 or 48 hours or whatever. Right? Like, and I know I would have never, I would have never done that. I would have never put that effort in. And so finding the right people who can fill in your blind spots or who have expertise in areas that you don't have expertise, like, the value in being able to hand that off is so far beyond whatever you're paying somebody for an hourly rate.

A (46:47)

It really is. And if you can breed an environment of trust and agency and ownership over tasks or ownership of like any, I say anything that I'm paying for, software wise, if it's an audio library, if it's licensed footage, or if it's whatever it is and it's going to help you and your business as long as we're getting the work done that we need to do. Yeah, use it. Grow your business. Take the things you're learning here and that we're learning together and apply it to whatever you are passionate about. And I want you to stay around, obviously, but just stay in communication. This is really like a mentor of mine in Austin here has helped me so much with this audiobook stuff. And also gave me some of the worst advice I've ever gotten, too, which was I was saying I felt like I was not making enough on my cut of the audiobooks early on. I was like, I'm really not clearing much and I'm doing a lot, a lot of work. And they said, oh, great, we'll just pay everybody else less. And that was a turning point for me of like, oh, no, I don't.

B (47:48)

Think I want to be.

A (47:49)

And so. And. And in that moment, I was like, I am going to figure out how to build a business the way I would. I would want a business to treat me. And it takes a little bit longer sometimes to get, like, a really big profit or whatever it is at the end of the year and we're still not hitting. Like, I have my goals of what I want to clear at the end of the year, but things are still growing and we're doing it in what I feel like to be the right way and learning a lot. And I really think if you can breed this. Hate saying the word breed over and over, if you can create this community of people that are open to learning and failing forward and being honest about what they do and don't know, but also honest about the fact that they are going to try and you can get that across to the client, you'd be amazed. And then actually deliver on it. Not just say, like, oh, yeah, I'll do that. And it's like, ooh, I forgot to do that. Just the honesty of being, like, candid with people about what, what and who you are and what. What you can and can't do is really important. It's been fun. It's been frustrating at times where I'm like, God, I really wish that we could have. I could have been smart at something else that could have made me an overnight success. But the more I'm in this, the more the process becomes enjoyable. It's still scary and. And beautiful and terrifying at the same time, but you get com. Cozy with the process of things, and.

B (49:16)

There'S a satisfaction in growing your own thing too, right?

A (49:20)

Yes.

B (49:20)

And that comes. And it takes time, but there is a satisfaction in. And being able to say, I did that. I built that. I. I started that from nothing or. Or whatever. You've mentioned a few times, the ADHD thing.

A (49:34)

Yeah.

B (49:34)

And I'm surprised. I guess maybe I shouldn't be, but I'm surprised. The number of voice actors that I work with in coaching sessions where that's. It's a legitimate struggle to when you're trying to run your own business and. And work through that. And I don't always have good advice, actually often don't have good advice. I'm curious, what do you do to help stay focused, prioritized, not feel overwhelmed by all the different things like what kind of systems, processes, whatever, other than Sam?

A (50:10)

Yeah, it's a really good question. It's continuously developing, but I've tried a little bit of everything. It's the hard thing about. I want to say this first is that like, I know that there are a lot of people out there being diagnosed with ADHD or self diagnosing because of TikTok and Instagram and the algorithm saying that you have it and whether or not you've been diagnosed or not and you feel like you're struggling with this stuff. Like, this is hopefully helpful for people and please go talk to a doctor about it. You know, setting timers for yourself. Productivity timers are really great. There was an app I mentioned in my talk at One Voice that I. I can't remember the name of, but again, classic adhd. I used it for a little bit. It forgot that I had it because I got pulled into something else and yeah, but I think setting it. Doing your best to really set a schedule for yourself.

B (50:59)

Yeah.

A (50:59)

And it's. And it's not necessarily even a routine. And the way that I described it last year in Dallas was like really setting these anchor points for yourself throughout your day. Knowing that I may get a couple promo auditions in there when I'm headed out the door to the gym that mean that I have to turn around and go back and do those. And then I could get a client email for a new client meeting for audiobooks that I have to take or something that is important and urgent and. And that can throw my day now I still get stressed. And now that my wife is home working with me, it's been really incredible to see the grace she has with me to be able to say like, hey, you actually do have time. You just have to plan it a little bit better. And that made my brain explode for a little bit. I was like, what do you mean, planet I can't plan this. This is Everything's All Around. She's like, no, you can. And so trusting yourself that you do have the capacity to plan something and it doesn't have to be like, oh, hey, good planning. It doesn't have to be that you stick to the same schedule every day, but just making sure that you get outside, go touch Grass. Go move your body again. Great. To move your body. As the screen says here. Go sweat. Go read a book, get off your phone. Get. I'll do like, you know, micro distractions here at the desk of like watching friends content or reading something on. On news. And. But it's the other part of like, what I said that urgent and important. I think making a list or making a chart of, you know, Y axis is level of importance and X axis is level of urgency. And it's a quadrant. And so it's not. This is not an original thing. I learned this while I worked at Lululemon. They had great leadership development there. And it really helps. Look at. Okay, I've got 20 auditions in my inbox. Five of them are due tomorrow at 8:00am the rest are due, you know, two days from now. And I also have all these meetings that I need to schedule and I need to get people paid and I need to do all these things. Great. Where do these land on the Matrix? Great. Now I have a clear action plan and I can also delegate some of the stuff that may not be as urgent to other people to help me out. So that's something that I use a lot. But it really, honestly, I find a lot of grounding in movement and exercise. Meditation helps a lot. And then also, like medication, if you have a doctor and practitioner that you are with that is licensed and is helping you with that, that's also an extremely viable option. I was on some medication for about a year and a half, two years, and it helped a lot. I'm not on it right now, and things are all right, but it's, you know. And the other part of it is knowing when to say no. And that's a really hard thing to do when we are so trained, like you said earlier in our conversation, that we're kind of raised to be employees and say yes and do things quick and fast for whatever money we can. But you can make the same kind of matrix for your priorities in life and your goals. What's important, what's urgent, what is not so urgent, but still really important. And that's going to shift and grow as you reach different levels of success in your business in different areas and just different as life happens. You may have a kid and then you're like, I don't. I have to focus on what is putting, you know, food on the table right now. And that may mean that you drop something in your business or you drop an avenue. And Lord knows I've tried a million different things to have different offerings for THC that would be potentially more, you know, like, stable income month over month, but trying, failing learning, trying, failing learning over and over and over. And you're never going to get further away from success if you're stepping up to the plate. But, you know, having a Sam, having. Having people in your life to anchor you certainly help, but you can do it by yourself. It just is. It's figuring out your own system for all the other fellow neurospicy people out there. It's. We know it's not just a one size fits all for everything, but I hope that. I hope that helps some people listening. I know it's not like a one, do this, two, do that, and three, succeed. What?

B (55:22)

Yeah, three easy steps.

A (55:24)

But it's. I find it myself. Even this week, you know, like, a lot of really wonderful things have happened, and I still am getting stressed just because I want to do a good job. I want to do a good job by my team. I want to do good job by my clients. And, like, there's still a portion of that that's like, I want to show my parents, like, hey, we're doing all right out here. And they. And they do do that, and they, they are very supportive. But it's. You just kind of, again, that pivot is. Is something that's really, really powerful. The ability to be agile and flexible, something I think ADHDers are really good at. But figuring out how to put the kind of boundaries around your creativity a little bit and your day really, really help you with productivity.

B (56:14)

I always see I can almost narrow it down to my productive days are the days when the phone and the iPad are not in the office with me. Yeah, my unproductive days are the days when my phone and my iPad are with the office or in the office with me. And I mean, it sounds silly and simplistic, but it's like I look back and I'm like, no, that. Like, literally that one thing is. And it. Sometimes it drives my wife nuts because I don't answer her text messages right away because she's, you know, upstairs texting me, and my phone is sitting on the kitchen counter right next to wherever she is. But I was like, if I have this stinking thing in my office, I fall down these rabbit holes of 1980s German characters, you know, singing and wearing shiny vests, and I can't. I can't focus.

A (57:00)

It's a dangerous place to be.

B (57:02)

Growing a business is fun, but it is definitely hard work. But. But I like the idea. I think part of it too is reframing failure when you are learning. Right. I mean, man, the only reason why I know how to do half the stuff that I know now is because I did it all wrong before. And when I did it all wrong, I was able to sit down and say, okay, well why didn't that work? What did I get wrong? How do I do it better next time? And maybe it's version 2, maybe it's version 3, maybe it's version 200 in 3 before I finally get it right. But it's, it's reframing that, that some, some of these failures are, they're not catastrophic. Right. It's not going to cause your business to shut down tomorrow. I mean, in most cases, hopefully not. Yeah, it's not going to, not going to cause your business to shut down tomorrow. But, but being willing to take some of those chances and try new things, to try to figure out better ways, better systems, better processes.

A (57:57)

Yeah. Yeah. And it's really, if anybody else out there listening is a, a fellow people pleaser or recovering people pleaser, it's taking that element out of it of that of like you said that it's not going to tank my business if I make a mistake or make one, like make a mistake with a client who ends up being really upset and they don't work with us again, that's unfortunate, but I learned from it and it's going to happen less or however that may look. But yeah, it's a scary thing. But really for me too, learning that everybody is really kind of making stuff up as they go. And it's never, it's never somebody being like, the right way to do this is this. The world is changing so fast and so just getting out there and trying. I do think it is important that like when you're entering a new industry or you're entering a new group of people or anything, learn the rules first so that you know, you know what the parameters are to bend them a little bit and figure out or rewrite them for your own business and what works for, for you. But yeah, it's as frustrating as it can be sometimes. Like, I know that I've tried to follow other paths into a more corporate, traditional setting. And I don't even like get to the first day because I'm like, I'm sorry, I really can't do this. I've made a mistake. I really, I can't stand not acting and not creating and not doing what I'm doing. Yeah. So we'll see. We'll See where all of this goes. I'm really excited, and right now, things are looking up. And my, you know, main goals for this year are to just let things be fun and let things be good instead of constantly thinking about what I've done wrong or how I feel like I'm behind because it didn't start 20 years ago or I didn't start, you know, any of that. So, yeah, I'm excited for 2026.

B (59:48)

On the note of fun, is there going to be another Mario Kart tournament at this year?

A (59:55)

There better be. Yeah, I think so. This year, I'm not planning on going to VO Atlanta. I should be at the Vocation Curacao Conference. And then at the very least, I'm going to come up to Dallas to host this tournament again. This was something that was born out of my first year at ovc. I had no idea that the awards were not part of the programming for your ticket. And so I was, like, all excited to get dressed up and go celebrate some friends. And they're like, oh, no, the ticket's like 400 for dinner. I was like, great, can I borrow a TV and play Mario Kart with some people and order pizza? And they said no. So I hung out by myself in my room. I went and got a pizza, and that was my evening. And after feeling like that really stunk, I emailed them ahead of time and for the next year and said, hey, I really want to do this thing. I've talked to people I can get. You know, you won't even know I'm there. Just let me. If you give me access to the room, we will set up, break down, and leave it better than we received it. So I think they were kind of a little nervous about it and said yes. And then we ended up having, like, 64 people. People show up. So it was an overwhelming success and so fun to just be in a group of fellow nerds just having fun, and everybody's having drinks and pizza and playing games, and I had a prize for the winner. And then last year, we did it again, and it was even bigger and better. And really what makes those tournaments is how much people lean in and how excited they are to just, like, have an opportunity to not. Not be worried about, like, the. The work side of things. It's just connecting with your friends and meeting new people and being silly and, you know, just it. It really was. It felt like a basement party. You know, growing up, it took me back.

B (61:49)

I saw the videos of it on your. On your Instagram, actually, and it took me back to when I was a youth pastor and I used to arrange for Super Smash Brothers tournaments, and everybody paid five bucks. And in the end, whoever won the tournament walked away with the GameCube and we'd play on, like, the, you know, like a 20 foot screen and sit there all night eating pizza. And. And I. I was watching the tournament, I was like, oh, my gosh, we had so much fun when we used to do that. And so it just. It. It brought back some good memories for me. And I was like, man, that would be a lot of fun, that. That Mario Kart. And.

A (62:26)

Yeah, come on out. I'm planning on doing it again. It's my. My year. This year is a little different than the past, like three or four. Just because audiobooks is growing, VO is growing, and I'm trying to really be intentional about where I'm spending my money in terms of travel, just because my wife is also not working at her retail job. That was kind of our little bit of a safety net every month of two paychecks, no matter what. And so, you know, if I end up getting a couple stacking some SAG campaigns, that would be great, and maybe I'll show up at a couple of extra things. But also trying to really be there in the author world as well, after going to a conference in Vegas in November last year for independent authors. And so there's not enough time and I don't have enough money yet to go out and be at all the places I want to be at and learn all the things I want to learn. But we're doing what we can, when we can.

B (63:18)

Right on. Well, the Mario Kart thing makes me want to come to one voice, so.

A (63:23)

Great. Well, we'll get you there if you're gonna.

B (63:24)

I mean, we'll have to go, because I'm gonna be there to win my audiobook award. Right? Remember? So. Yes, yes, duh. Yeah. So we'll. We'll have to make that happen. Tim, this has been awesome. What a fun conversation. That definitely did not go where I. I didn't. I wasn't sure where we were gonna go, but I love. I didn't either. I love where we went, and I think that some people are going to learn some things from this because, I mean, we could all use a little bit of advice when it comes to growing and scaling and Lord knows I've.

A (63:54)

Messed up a lot.

B (63:55)

If somebody wants to reach out, get connected, you're probably going to have a million people that want to send you their audiobook demos. Now so they can get on you.

A (64:01)

That is one thing I would like to say here kindly is we don't keep really a running roster because this is not trying to be gatekeeping or exclusive or anything at all. This is purely because I don't want anybody sitting on a roster, not getting opportunities. And so this is something that I've been very intentional about. And it's, you know, we have some people on there that we know have great setups and who are really, you know, who we. Who we know and trust with new clients of ours.

B (64:33)

Yep.

A (64:34)

And we mostly cast through agents. So please do not send me or Sam or my wife your demos right now and keep an eye on social for when we do end up opening that up at some point in some capacity. Or keep an eye on your email if we reach out. Because we do want to be intentional about this and not just have people like emailing us saying, hey, when am I going to get an audition? When am I going to book one? I want to respect your time, like, everyone's time and hours in this process.

B (65:02)

But I'm waiting for the webinar. The. So. So you don't want to do audiobooks or whatever?

A (65:07)

Yeah. So you don't do. Or. Yeah, I don't do audio.

B (65:09)

I don't do audiobooks. I'm waiting for that one. So let me know when that happens.

A (65:14)

Yeah. But if people are looking to. To reach out or connect at all, my. My site is timhellercreative.com that'll also take you to audiobook bonanza.com which is that branch of THC. And then all my social media is at Tim heller creative. So LinkedIn. And I will say, too, that I've taken kind of an intentional breaking period of spending as much time on social. And I'm not really great at responding there right now, but it's okay.

B (65:48)

There's plenty of back catalog on Instagram to fall down the rabbit hole and watch all the videos.

A (65:52)

So until I get too embarrassed and delete it all. But yeah, but yeah, reach out that way, connect that way. And. And if you see me at a conference, please come say hi. I love just talking to people. So. And Mark, thank you so much again for reaching out and having me on the show. It's. I've been an admirer of yours from a distance in. In my little blips of free time here and there. And. And I just. Yeah, this has been really, really fun, I'll tell you.

B (66:20)

Because, you know, it's just. It's just you and me so I can say this, but, you know, I'm going to be working with Sam this year, and I'm a little bit nervous that her voiceover business is actually going to take off and she's not going to have time for us anymore. So I'm thinking intentionally sabotage. Yeah. I mean, I'll just give her some bad advice and some coaching sessions or whatever so I can make sure that we still got all the access that we need.

A (66:39)

Even that won't work. She's too good.

B (66:41)

I know she would find a way to overcome it. So.

A (66:46)

Yeah.

B (66:47)

Oh, man. Well, Tim, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for your time and for the great company, for the wisdom that you shared. I'm grateful.

A (66:54)

Thank you, Mark. I'm really, really glad that we got to hang out here and chop it up a bit.

B (66:58)

Such a fun conversation with Tim Heller, and I hope that it brought you a few laughs, a few smiles, and a few productivity tips along the way as well. Hey, can you do me two quick favors if you enjoyed this episode? First, subscribe wherever you're listening so you'll always get notified when new episodes drop. And second, would you take a minute to leave a review? It would mean so much. Thanks so much for listening to the Everyday Veopreneur podcast.