B (14:52)

Now back to our show.

A (14:53)

You can't have your cake and eat it too. As they say. I do not want to hear voice actors online whining and griping and grumbling and chewing and complaining about all these different online casting sites and the unethical ways that they do business and the things about the sites that they hate and the things about the sites that make it difficult and the things about the sites that impacting the voice actors business negatively if you are still going to continue to give them their membership fee every year. Anyway, now this is where we get to the fantasy part of the episode. I do not see a scenario where an overwhelming majority of voice actors actually walk away. I don't. Because if that was going to happen I feel like it would have happened already. Now, have voice actors walked away? Yes. Have influential voice actors walked away? Yes. Have we tried to have conversations with people from these companies? Yes. The CEO of voices.com showed up at VEO Atlanta, fed us Align. It's been several months since absolutely nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned. It was all just BS and marketing spin. We've tried to engage with them in different ways and it hasn't worked because the only thing that works, as they say, money talks. You my friend, my fellow voice actor, my fellow Veopreneur you're the money. You're the money. If we're not willing to walk away, if we're not willing to stop paying membership fees, then we just need to accept that this is the way that it is. And that really is the bottom line. Because as long as we continue to submit our annual membership dues, I don't see a scenario where anything is going to change, because I don't see a scenario where these sites are actually incentivized to change. Why should voices.com stop taking insane commissions and offering absolute garbage rates as long as voice actors continue to pay for the privilege to be screwed and taken advantage of? Let me. Let me say that one more time. What incentive is there for voices.com to stop taking obscene and obnoxious commissions as long as voice actors continue to pay for the privilege? This is what you are doing. You are literally giving them $400 a year, every year, to take advantage of you. You're paying them to screw you. In what other world does this make sense? Now, I know that the pushback is going to be. But, Mark, we need access to the jobs. We need access to the auditions. And I, and I certainly understand that. It's one of the reasons why I held on to some of these sites a little longer than I probably should have, even though I've been gone for a really long time. So there's a couple things that I want to say in response to that. First and foremost, there are lots of other jobs out there. I have built my business on marketing. Haven't had an active casting site membership in many years, and I'm doing just fine. It is possible to go out there and find the work. And if you're not spending so many hours of your day, every day devoted to all these online casting sites, you'll actually have time in your calendar to be able to go out and do that marketing. So there's. There's that consideration. The other consideration is that if voice actors started walking away from some of these platforms in large numbers, the buyers are going to look somewhere else to find the opportunities and to make those connections. And so that's an opportunity for us to maybe drive some traffic towards a site like Bidalgo, for example, or Veoplanet, another one that seems to be completely legitimate. So we could kill two birds with one stone in that regard, where we don't lose out on the access to the auditions, but we actually drive the auditions and the voice buyers to sites that are better and everybody wins. Something to think about. The other Thing that I would say is, unless you are making absolute bank on these sites, what are you worried about losing? So I coach voice actors every single day I do coaching sessions. Five days a week I coach voice actors. And at least once a day I talk to a voice actor who has some sort of a complaint, a beef, an issue, a challenge, a struggle, etc. With online casting. Some of these voice actors that are upset about what is going on are also voice actors who have submitted hundreds of auditions and not booked. So what are you missing out on if you walk away? What are you actually losing if you walk away? Now, if you are consistently booking 1 in 20 auditions, if you are consistently booking 1 in 30 auditions, if you are making $1,000 a week off of these casting sites, which some people are, I can understand a hesitancy to walk away, of course, but the people that are making a thousand dollars a week off of these casting sites are also not the same people that are online complaining about them. Or at least that's. That's the way it appears anyway. The people who are complaining the loudest tend to be the people who aren't making any money on the sites anyway. So then it makes me even more confused about why you aren't just saying enough is enough and walking away. We live in a very politically charged climate. I don't always agree with some of the things that I see online. In fact, I don't agree with a lot of the things that I see online. But I can't help but notice over the years that when a company does something that we don't like, they say something we don't like, they take a position that we don't like, they promote a cause that we don't like, we'll boycott them overnight. We have seen companies in the last year or two that have lost millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars off their market cap because of protests from people who are walking away because they don't agree with what that company's doing. So I know we have the capacity to do it. Now, I am not going to stand here and be your Napoleon or whatever, fearless leader in charge of the revolution. I have no interest, sorry, I'm not invested in online casting. I am coming at this from an outside third party perspective because I am not actively using any of these sites. They're not responsible for my business in any way. They're not responsible for my income in any way. So I'm looking at this a little bit more objectively, or at least I think I'm looking at this a little bit more objectively. And so as an elder statesman of the industry, can I say that? I don't know if I can say that. I just said it. But anyway, I'm just saying I think that we need to look at this a little bit more rationally, a little bit more objectively and I think we need to make some decisions now. At the end of the day, if you want to devote your time and your energy to griping about social media online, that is your God given right or your constitutionally given right, and I'm not going to tell you don't do it. But what I'm saying is there might be a more productive way forward. I want to come at this from a slightly different perspective as well. When I wake up in the morning, I get excited to go down into the booth because I can't wait to see what's waiting for me. Maybe there's an audition from one of my favorite clients, maybe there's a booking from one of my favorite clients. Maybe there's an email inquiry from a potential new client that I get to have a conversation with. But I get excited to go into the studio every day. I get excited to see what's going to happen next. I get excited about working with voice actors. I get excited about the coaching sessions. I can't wait to have breakthroughs with people and help them to find a new way forward in their business. These are the things that drive me, that get me up out of bed every morning and into the office every day. I want that kind of energy all day, every day. And so I'm grateful that I've built a business that gives me that. What I'm seeing with a lot of voice actors is they're starting their days out po'd because of what is going on on online casting. And I have to ask the question, if you're getting that upset, if you're getting that angry, if there's that much frustration or stress or anxiety over what is going on, if the algorithm on 1:2:3 is making you crazy, if the commission structure and crappy rates on voices.com is driving you nuts, is it not reasonable to assume that that energy is carrying through your day? Is it not reasonable to assume that if you are coming from a place of anger, frustration, resentment, bitterness, etc. Is it not reasonable to assume that that might be infecting how you approach your business consciously or unconsciously, is it not reasonable to assume that that could be influencing the reads that you're delivering inside of the booth? If you've just had a really bad experience on an online casting site and you're just ticked because of that experience, like this incredible opportunity landed in your inbox from voices.com but then you looked it up on GVAA and you realize this is a $15,000 job that they're trying to get you to do for 900 bucks. And by the way, I just helped a client coaching client work through a project exactly like that last week and should have been a $15,000 project. They were trying to get them to do it for 900 bucks. So if you just had that experience and now you're ticked because you're like, this is supposed to be a $15,000 project. Now you're getting me to do it for 900 bucks. But then all of a sudden you get an audition that drops in your inbox for a national from one of your agents that's actually at fair rate. Now you got to go in the booth and you got to record that national for your agent. But in the back of your mind, you're still ticked off about this $900 offer that should have been 15 grand. Are you sure that you're delivering the best possible audition for your agent at that point, or is the negative energy from the casting set experience impacting you in some way? It's a question you have to ask. So, look, at the end of the day, everybody's going to do what they're going to do. Voice 123 is going to run Voice 1, 2, 3, the way they're going to run it. VDC going to do the same thing backstage. They can rewrite their terms of service and terms of conditions or whatever, as many times as they want. It's their business, their prerogative, just like it's your business and your prerogative to choose. Am I going to continue to do business with these sites? All I'm saying is you have to take some ownership in this. Because if you are continuing to pay your membership fees, then whether you mean it or not, whether it's your intention or not, you're endorsing the practices of the company that you're choosing to do business with. So if you're going to keep throwing your four or five hundred dollars a year@voices.com and keep auditioning, no matter what you're telling them with your money, your patronage, that you accept the way that they do business. Now, maybe you don't. I know you don't. I've had the conversations with you. But that's not the perception on the other end. So your choices are maintain status quo, continue to allow online casting to hate you and give the money to do it. Or maybe it's time as a community that we start coming at this from a slightly different perspective, hopefully a more productive and meaningful perspective. Like I said, I'm not going to lead the revolution. I'm not invested. But I am a coach, a business coach, marketing coach. And I do feel a responsibility and an obligation to the vopeneur community that I've created to give you guys advice and to call things out when I see them, whether it's a popular take or not. And I know I'm going to get some pushback on it, that's fine. I've been getting pushback on stuff for decades now. Got broad shoulders, I can handle it. But I think somebody's got to tell you the truth right now. I don't know if anybody's telling you the truth. I know there are a lot of people that are just joining in the anger and raising up their pitchforks. Raising up your pitchforks is not enough. So something to think about. It's something to think about. How will you vote going forward? When you submit some auditions on 1, 2, 3, and maybe even book some jobs, but don't get the likes and you go from the top 20% to the bottom 40%, are you going to say enough is enough, or are you going to upgrade your membership and give them even more money? I know a lot of voice actors that upgrade their membership and give them even more money, which, by the way, we know it's been proven upgrading your membership, giving them more money, doesn't actually solve your algorithm problems, just to be clear. So it's not even the fix that you think it is, but people continue to do it. Don't be so desperate for work. Don't be so desperate for work that you're willing to be taken advantage of like that. Because there are other ways to find the work. There are other ways to find the work. Better ways to find the work. Maybe we need an organization like Nava to help lead the conversation. And I know that they're doing things. I know that they're trying. You know, World Voices existed. I guess it still exists. But, you know, a number of years ago, we thought maybe they were going to be the solution and that just didn't pan out and that's okay. Or maybe we got to do it ourselves, I don't know. All I know is that the constant complaining online isn't actually fixing anything. And if I had to venture a guess, and I'm not a therapist, but if I had to venture a guess, the only thing I feel like it's really accomplishing is in making the community more frustrated and dejected. That doesn't seem like a very fun way to live or to do business. So maybe we got to find a better way. It sounds harsh to say that some of these sites hate you, but it sure feels like sure feels like they do. And it sure feels like they continue to try to one up themselves on ways that they can hate you just a little bit more and see whether or not you'll keep giving them their money. Maybe it's time to stop giving them the money. I don't know. Something to think about anyway, because it's a conversation that has to happen and right now I just don't feel like it's happening in the most productive way. So take this as you will. Again, I say if you're making bank on these sites, ignore me. Keep doing you put up with it the best that you can. But if you're booking one in 500 auditions and you're still devoted to these companies at 4, 5, 8, $1,000 a year, it's not the fix that you think it is. It's not even the solution provider that you think it is, because they're not providing you with any kind of solution. They're giving you auditions, but you're not actually getting work from it. So if you're not even making money, what are you defending in the first place? Something to think about. Time to find a better way. All right, that's all I got to say about that. But it's a conversation that needs to happen. And I'll be very curious to see over the coming weeks what happens, particularly right now with backstage and the terms of service. But again, I would encourage you to make sure that you understand the definition of user generated content and make sure that you understand clearly what they are actually saying, because it might not be what you think it is. I'm very much looking forward to hearing what you have to think about this episode and whether or not you agree or disagree. Whether I hit the nail on the head or whether I couldn't possibly be more wrong, I'm certainly open to having those conversations because I think that's what needs to happen. I think we need to have conversations more than we just need to have anger and resentment and bitterness being posted all over the Internet. So let me know what you think. Tag me in your Instagram stories. Make a quick video or drop me an email, send me a message on X. I'd love to know what you think about this issue, but I do think it's time that more important and more productive conversations start happening around the subject of online casting, and hopefully you'll join me in it. Thanks so much for listening and I'll catch you on the next one.

B (32:22)

The Everyday veopreneur Podcast Available everywhere. Find podcasts are given away for free. Mostly we think you have a great website, right? Well, make sure you host it at some place that doesn't suck. Hey, it's Brad Newman, fellow VO pro for 28 years and owner of upper levelhosting.com People ask, why us? And that's simple. We make it easy, respect your time, save you money, and just make all the magic happen. You don't need to know all the tech stuff. When it comes to hosting your website, we got you. Ask around. Tens of thousands of client interactions later and six years of amazing customer service and not a single negative complaint ever. Upper level hosting.com end scene. And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for hanging out. Want more Veopreneur goodness. Jump online@veopreneur.com.