A (1:57)

This is it. This will probably be the last episode of the Everyday View for the world.

B (2:01)

At the end of your career. You had a good run.

A (2:03)

I'm pretty sure that I'll be canceled after this. Here I thought it would be like getting into political voiceover. That would be the thing that would take me out. So that's why I never bothered to do that. But yep, this is gonna be the thing that takes me down.

B (2:16)

I'm here for your downfall. I'm so sorry, Gina.

A (2:18)

You have a very unique distinction of being the first time guest to be on twice in the same year.

B (2:27)

Let's go. Wow.

A (2:29)

Wait, that's like Major League Baseball, where I keep, like, the most random statistics.

B (2:33)

Wait a minute. Yeah, I'll take that. Wait, that's actually really cool.

A (2:37)

Yeah, we just did. Because we did an episode in January.

B (2:40)

We did.

A (2:41)

We were talking SEO. I feel like I could actually have you back again because we could probably do a totally different episode to talk about this new, you know, AEO or GEO or, you know, depending on which one you go with. Is it. Is it, you know, Generative engine optimization or AI engine optimization or whatever? But that's. That's another episode for another day.

B (3:00)

I'll be back. You can get rid of me.

A (3:02)

But today, I canceled today. Well, I mean, we'll see. Here's hoping. Here's hoping, Right?

B (3:07)

Fingers crossed.

A (3:09)

So we got to talk about voices.com because you are quite optimistic about the platform despite.

B (3:19)

Despite the Internet.

A (3:20)

Despite the Internet. And so I want to get to the good stuff, and we will get to the good stuff, but I feel like we need to address some of the more controversial stuff right out of the gate, and if we can get past that controversial stuff. So let's start with the managed or professional services projects. I'm not sure specifically how they refer to them now. It was one or both. And why are those so controversial? And why do they get people really upset?

B (3:52)

Okay, so they're controversial because there's a narrative online, and I'm not saying it's not true, but there's a narrative online that they take way more off the top and they're not totally transparent about jobs. Now, I'm just going to speak from my own personal experience.

A (4:08)

Okay.

B (4:09)

I have only ever heard of a handful of egregious things that have happened, and I don't know where the disconnect comes from. Like, it could. Could it be on the Voices side? Sure. Could it be on the client side? Because if they don't go through an agent, the agent doesn't push back and say, hey, this usage, this rate, isn't it? And they know that they can maybe get away with it somewhere else. I don't really know, but I have done over 10,000 auditions on the platform over the years. I have coached hundreds of people, and I have not run into too many instances of it. And my personal experience with them has been positive. But I hear what people are saying, and I know you. You know, you've heard, you know, well.

A (4:53)

That was what ultimately. That's what ultimately got me kicked off the platform a bunch of years ago. And, you know, granted, this is going back a While now, so maybe things have changed but, but I caught them. The worst example was I caught them red handed taking a 92.5% commission. And we figured it out because the identical job, literally the identical posting went on 1, 2, 3 invoices.com and the budget was, there was a 92.5% discrepancy in the budget and the client was hidden on both platforms. But I was able to figure out who the client was. I did some super deep dive research.

B (5:33)

You went on an investigation hun.

A (5:35)

And I did and I figured out who the client was and I sent them a message and I said, look, I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but if I was in your shoes, I would want to be aware of this. They had no idea that voices.com took a commission. It was never expressed to them that voices.com took a commission. And they were actually really angry because the reason why they had posted the budget, this was for a commercial. And the reason why they posted the budget that they had posted was because they wanted a talent at that level. And by posting and you know, if they post it for 500, you know there's a percentage of talent that are like commercial 500 this usage. Yeah, I'm not doing that right. Versus if it was, you know, 5,000, then everybody's like, yeah, we're going to go there. So that was the, that was the worst example. But I did catch several other examples where the commissions were in the 70 and 80% range. And again it was because at the time the jobs were being posted on both platforms. And so it was really easy to see the discrepancies going on there. And so when, when we tried to get a straight answer from voices.com well, we didn't, we didn't. I just got kicked off the platform and then there was never a straight answer given. And so at VO Atlanta when I had tried to address this, when the new CEO came, we still didn't get, we still didn't get a straight answer. So maybe the commissions aren't as bad now. I don't know.

B (7:04)

I do think they've made a lot of positive changes. I think that they've done a better job of listening to the community. There's things that they've done that I've really appreciated and I feel like what they've, it's hard for them to live down things that have happened in the past and the people who are there now. It's like I wasn't the CEO then or I wasn't. I wasn't even in this department. And they're kind of trying to, you know, dispel that narrative. And so it's hard. I can imagine it's a tough position for them, but it's also hard for the voice actors who feel burned in the past. But I think that there is a path forward for people who have kind of dismissed them. And, and I, I have felt a lot of positive changes, and I, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, and I feel like they've been a really good partner to me. So I, I like, I really do hear what is happening on both sides. For sure.

A (7:56)

We're talking about online casting in this episode because I truly believe that online casting platforms offer a really great source for auditions and opportunities. But they are not the only source for auditions and opportunities. I have a masterclass called 101 Ways to Find Voiceover Leads. And in that class, I literally teach you 101 different places where you can find leads for voiceover work. As a matter of fact, I actually think it ended up being 122 different places where you can look for voiceover leads. There are so many places beyond online casting, and a lot of voice actors aren't thinking about them. Once you start to recognize all of these places, you can truly start to grow a business for yourself. So if you are interested in figuring out where the heck do I even look for the work, head to veopreneur.com, click on the store button, and look for 101 ways to find VEO leads. I'll link it up in the show notes as well. 101 ways to find VEO leads. The masterclass is available@veopreneur.com now back to our show. The reason why I want to have this conversation is because I know other voice actors who are doing incredibly well on the platform. And I also know that some of those voice actors are afraid to even admit that they are on the platform because the platform gets such a bad rep. Right.

B (9:16)

Sure.

A (9:16)

And I really hoped that when the new CEO came to VEO Atlanta that that was going to be the shift. But I just felt like he dodged all the questions to the point where he didn't get invited back again because he didn't satisfy what the community was looking for as far as transparency. And, and I also understand, and I've said this before, with all these casting sites, as frustrating as any of them can be, you have to understand that they are actually serving two masters. You have to build a site for talent and talent are paying to be on the site. So we feel like we are owed a certain amount from the, from the management and you know, a certain amount of input and whatever. But at the same time, if you don't build a platform that lends itself to buyers, there's nothing for the talent.

B (10:12)

Correct.

A (10:13)

And so you, you know, it's not easy balancing both sides. Right?

B (10:17)

No, I imagine if we got everything.

A (10:19)

That we wanted, yeah. It wouldn't be a user friendly experience necessarily on the client side, especially for clients who are outside of the industry, maybe don't understand all of the different aspects. And so I get, you know, that you're trying to walk that line. So the idea behind the managed services projects is that they come, voices.com comes in, they kind of take the reins to make it easier for the client. It's an, you know, whatever ala carte service or, you know, client just gives them the project and says go for it. Com goes out, finds the people, whatever. But that was one of the big concerns in the past was that there wasn't, regardless of whether it was a 20% commission or a 90% commission, there didn't really seem to be a lot of transparency on either the client side or the talent side of what that commission was. There didn't really seem to be a rhyme or reason. Right. Like if it was just a straight line, 20% across the board, that would be totally different. The answer, the only answer that I ever got at the time that I was investigating it was that voices.com was going off of their rate card. Well, their rate card was like the worst rate card in the industry at the time. And so client comes and says here's 5,000 for this project. But voices.com's rate card says that's a $250 project. Well then they would post it for 250, keep the difference, not tell anybody. And their argument was, well, talent can bid whatever they want. Well, what talent is going to see a project posted for $250 and say I'm bidding 5 grand for this?

B (11:53)

I mean some people do you, some people do. They see, I mean not just on the managed side, but just they see a project that's, you know, 9.99, you know, and they feel like it should be 2500 and they bid the 2500. And I have cast projects on there myself so that I could see it from the client side. And also I just. The point that you were making about it's hard to balance making the buyers happy and making the talent Happy. Just as someone who also does, you know, casting and projects, I can think of one client in particular. We produce over a hundred spots a year for them across a multitude of talent. And, you know, we're always trying to balance, like, what is their budget, what is the usage, what's fair to the talent, but it's not easy. And so, you know, and that's just me at Positive Voices Studio doing, you know, however many projects a year. Voices is, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of projects. You're trying to keep everybody happy. And, you know, I imagine it's not an easy position to be in. I guess my, my take right now is that, you know, for people who have been very closed off about it, that's like to, to have an open mind that things couldn't improve, that things can be different. And it's not that it, you know, everything is perfect, but you can also pick and choose what you want to audition for. You can negotiate way more than you think you can. I just did a very big negotiation on a project for something that I really wanted to do, but I just couldn't agree to the terms. And, and, but it ended up working out in my favor. I think people feel like. I think people feel like they don't have control over things on Voices, and I actually think that's very far from the truth. And that's a lot of what I coach on and what I'm now building a course around, which I'm super excited about.

A (13:29)

I think that's a fair statement. And I. I've heard that from several other voice actors who are on the platform in the past that the budget isn't always the budget, particularly on the managed services projects. Yes, sometimes the budget is the budget, but sometimes the budget isn't the budget. And so if you come back and say, look, I'm interested, but we need to get to here, that's no different than negotiating with a client who comes to you directly through your website. And so there is a responsibility on the talent side to be willing to stand up and say, hey, now, look, if they don't accept it, they don't accept it. That could happen on voices.com just as easily as it could happen on a project that walks through your website. I mean, we've all been there and done that. But that is. I think that is an important thing to point out that, yeah, there, there is an opportunity for negotiation. And I mean, at the end of the day, everybody's trying to get it for the cheapest rate, right? And so it doesn't surprise me that the, you know, nobody's throwing out the top number first.

B (14:30)

Yeah.

A (14:30)

Not in voiceover or any business.

B (14:32)

I feel, I also don't want, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm not trying to sit here and be like, you know, everything, you're all, you know, everything that you think about it is wrong. But I also feel like, you know, they, they maybe have a reputation. Like the rates are super low. But I, I have done countless projects that are at or above gvaa. Like, I don't feel like I'm, you know, like bargain shopping over here. And so I, I mean, some of the rates, I'm like, really? I mean, just an example, like I did a, like a two minute internal video. If someone had come into my inbox and said, you know, what would you charge? It's like, I don't know, 3, $400 internal, 2 minute, non broadcast. The budget was a thousand. Like, what are we talking sometimes? Like, what are we talking about? Like, there's a lot of good things on there. And so I, you know, I talk to so many people that are like, I, I've heard this or that, or I, you know, I got off the platform and, or, you know, I just feel like I can't win on there. And so maybe I'm just, you know, overly optimistic. But I'm like, you know, there's actually a lot of things you could do that would make it a much more enjoyable experience and put you in a position of power instead of like, I don't know what, just waiting for something to happen to you. Yeah, that's just me. Maybe, maybe I'm the weirdo.

A (15:44)

No, I think that, I think that's totally, I think that's totally legitimate that we, we do have to maybe have a little bit more of an open mind that there's more turning your, your.

B (15:55)

Cold heart warmer on this.

A (15:57)

Well, I mean, I'm sure, I'm pretty sure my picture hangs on the wall in that place with a dartboard.

B (16:02)

That's probably not true, but.

A (16:05)

No, it's, but you know what? The, the low budgets, that's not exclusive to voices.com.

B (16:10)

Thank you.

A (16:10)

I, I, that is not exclusive to voices.com. you will see really awesome projects on Voice 123 and you will see total crap projects on Voice 1, 2, 3.

B (16:20)

And you will see the same thing.

A (16:22)

In your really awesome projects on voices.com.

B (16:24)

Thank you.

A (16:24)

You will see total crap projects on Voices. That's just across the board in the industry. I mean, the only site that maybe you're not seeing that is budulgo, but that's because Armin is actively managing. But he's also not actively managing the volume of projects that are being managed on voices.com, either. But, yeah, that is not. The budget thing, is not exclusive to.

B (16:48)

Voices.Com yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, one of the things that I'm trying to do better is have my opinion. Like, I'm willing to hear anything anybody has to say, but I feel like in the earlier part of the professional part of my career, like, I was intimidated by Facebook and LinkedIn opinions, and it was hard to be, like, the different voice saying, like. And, like, it's not. I don't know if it's everything we're saying it is right now or, you know, maybe there's a positive story here. But I just kind of decided in the last few years, like, I'm just gonna give my opinion and it's okay if we disagree. It's kind of similar to how I first started Voiceover, which was on Fiverr for five years, and everybody always taking a big dump on it. And now I'm just like, that's how I started. I'm not gonna apologize for it. It was a really good experience for me personally. I don't use the platform anymore, but I have nothing really bad to say about it. And that's it. That's. That's the real deal. So I. I try. I try to keep it real if I can. It's. It's hard, though, when everyone's. When people are like, everybody's crapping on it. When people are crapping on it. But I've been trying to be better, even on Facebook, about it, commenting nicely.

A (17:52)

But even. Even I have said. And I know that this. This particular thing that I say always gets overlooked because controversy is more sexy and fun.

B (18:01)

But, yeah, it's fun to be mad.

A (18:03)

I have said for years, at the end of the day, we have to accept that there are just buyers looking to hire voice actors. And they don't have a sweet clue about the entire history of voices dot com. They couldn't care less because it has no bearing on their life whatsoever. They don't know about big commissions or triple dipping or whatever, like, rates.

B (18:33)

None of that.

A (18:33)

Whether. Whether it's ethical or unethical or, like, they don't have a clue. They just need a voice for their project.

B (18:41)

Yep. And they're not reading the GBAA rate guys. They don't know.

A (18:47)

They did a Google search and they found voices.com. and they posted the job. And those people. Why don't they deserve to have great voice actors narrating their projects? Of course they do. And so there's that side of it as well. Maybe you don't condone past behavior of the platform or maybe current behavior if there's still something going on. And I don't know. That's why I have these conversations, to ask these questions. But at the same time, it is a place where there are completely innocent buyers.

B (19:22)

Oh, my gosh.

A (19:23)

Who are just looking to find great voice actors.

B (19:26)

Like, I feel like it's almost everybody. You know, I mean, every now and then there's some kind of scammy thing, but it's off the platform so fast. And the community on Voices is really great. I mean, the other voice actors about reporting things that stand out as being egregious, and it gets taken down immediately. Like, someone tries to message you and be like, hey, you know, your voice sounds great. Here's my email. It's blah, blah, blah, hotmail, dot com. Like, it's gone before you can even get to the message. They're very on top of that. So I. Again, like, I. I hear what you and other people have said, but I feel I. I like the idea of, you know, can people. Can a company. Can people change and evolve? Can they learn from past mistakes? Can we go in with an open mind, you know, and things like that. It's like, you don't have to use the platform, but, you know, maybe there's a new story to be told here, and hopefully, like, I can just help ease some of the concerns and the worries while still listening to, you know, what everyone has to say. I don't.

A (20:25)

I don't know if we're gonna get to tell a new story here.

B (20:27)

Maybe not, but I can't tell you something.

A (20:29)

I hope we get to tell a.

B (20:29)

New story to make you feel better.

A (20:30)

But let's. There's one more thing I want to get to. That was always a real pain point.

B (20:36)

Yeah.

A (20:36)

The triple dipping.

B (20:38)

Okay.

A (20:39)

Is the triple dipping still happening? So you paid your admission to enter the arena by paying your membership.

B (20:45)

Okay, I paid my membership. Sure.

A (20:47)

And then there were commissions on all these projects, which were often hidden, and we didn't know what those commissions were, but they were being taken.

B (20:54)

Okay.

A (20:54)

And then you're paying. I had heard that it was up to 20% on the escrow.

B (20:59)

Yeah.

A (21:00)

So it felt like a triple dip.

B (21:01)

Well, I don't know. Here's what I know. I know I paid My membership and I know the fees, you know, the. Whatever, the 20% fee when I'm booking the job. So that's what is put out.

A (21:12)

Can you bypass that? Can you. Do you have to go through. Sure. Pay or whatever their system is called now? Like, can you. Can you get paid off platform? Or is it still very. It's still fully.

B (21:23)

Everything is contained within the platform. And so like, the messaging that you do and the payments that you do. And so one reason for that that is given is that then they can intervene when something doesn't go well. If something doesn't go right, they have all of the messages. They know what the payment was supposed to be, the agreement. If you, you know, I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

A (21:45)

With Voice123, that sounds so wonderful and all true. I know. Like, we know that it's just about them getting.

B (21:50)

I don't work for them. I don't work for them. I'm just telling you one. One of the reasons that they give.

A (21:54)

But no, it does make sense, though. It does make sense.

B (21:57)

Well, it's like, yeah, I mean, if you're. If you're gonna say, take it off platform, right? Like Voice123, and that's fine. That's what a lot of people like about Voice 1, 2, 3 is that they can work directly. And that's one things I like about the platform. I've had many clients turn over into repeat direct clients, and they're great. But it's like, if you take it off platform, we're not doing messages there. We're not doing payment through them. And now we're like, hey, can you intervene? It's like, I'm not there for this conversation. I don't know what happened. So I'm not saying that everything is like, you know, the most honorable. Like, yeah, but that, that is one of the reasons why. And so my understanding, you know, as a, you know, a user of the site is I paid my money to be on the site. I pay my fees to book the job. I know what those fees are, and I don't. To the best of my knowledge, there's not some third thing going on. But I don't, you know, if there is, I don't know about it. So I don't think like that, you know, that's the, that's the rumor or the, the stories of old. I don't know. But that's my experiences. Like, it's. Is that I know what I'm paying.

A (22:57)

Do you feel like you're on the hot seat right now.

B (22:58)

Yeah. What is this?

A (23:01)

I'm just asking questions.

B (23:02)

I should have known better.

A (23:04)

I'm, I am literally Switzerland in this argument. And I know that nobody actually believes that, but I am actually Switzerland in this argument because I have no skin in the game. Right. Like I'm not on the platform. I haven't been on the platform in a really long time. Obviously I, I had issues with the platform in the past and that was why I ended up off the platform. But I am also, I've been in the industry long enough to know that like, look, voice 1 2, 3 is not the same site that it was when I originally signed up for it.

B (23:31)

Right, of course, yeah.

A (23:32)

Like things change, the seasons change. And so I want to have those, I want to, I want to be open minded enough to have those conversations. But I mean I have to ask some of the hard questions that the community is, you know, obviously it's the things that they've been upset about and they've been upset about them, understandably so in the past. But again, that doesn't necessarily mean that that's the way that things work now. And so it's nice to talk to, it's nice to talk to somebody who's on the, the other side, who, you.

B (24:04)

Know, I'm having a positive experience.

A (24:06)

You're doing. Yeah. And that's why I want to talk to you because you are doing amazing things on that. Like I, I looked at your profile. It says you're a top talent, you've got a five star rating, the hundreds of 197 projects or something. That said, like, I don't know, that's why I want to talk to you because your experience has obviously been different than the experience of a lot of other people. So one of the things that I have recently learned is that voices.com has an algorithm.

B (24:37)

Yes.

A (24:39)

Not like the 1 2, 3 algorithm is 123 still call it smartcaster if they move to other.

B (24:46)

I haven't heard it called that like lately, so I'm not sure. But Voices Algorithm is Voice Match. That's their algorithm name.

A (24:52)

So I mean voices.com has always had that. The Voice Match has always been there where, you know, you put up your demos, you put up on this type of voice. I'm this age range, I'm these genres, whatever, whatever. And then it would, it would choose which auditions you saw based on how you, how your profile matched the specs that the clients put in. That's always been there.

B (25:17)

Yeah.

A (25:18)

But my understanding is that the algorithm has gotten more advanced over time because it used to just be that you got access to all the projects you picked. And like, I would see voice match 100%, but I would also see voice match 70% back in the day. How has that algorithm evolved? What is it? Can you explain it a little bit more of how it works? Yeah, I know you're not like, I mean, I don't think you're a secret Leon. Are you a spy for voice?

B (25:44)

No, but I think people think I am. I get nothing from this. But no. Okay, so the algorithm, it works in a series of ways, but the first way is having your profile completely filled out, like with all of the genres you want to do, the age ranges, you know, your gender, your languages, accents and all of that stuff. And then the next piece is putting up many demos and clips because a big mistake people make is they, you know, they slap up two or three demos and then kind of sit back and relax and say, hey, how come I'm not getting a lot of auditions? Or how come I'm 60% job match? But that's because for every genre you put up, in every age range you put up, you need at least one clip. So if you put up 10 genres and two age ranges, you need 20 clips, you know, and people get intimidated. But I'm like, that's the goal, you know, that's where we want to be. Because you want to match for everything. Okay, then once you've optimized your profile, now the. Over time, these, this algorithm has now started to look at merit based. So when you get an audition, are you engaging with the platform, are you getting shortlisted and are you booking? Now, to the best of my understanding, and this is just don't take this as the bible, but if you don't get shortlisted a lot on Voice123, you're going to drop in the rankings and you're going to be in the bottom 10%. You are punished. Punished. Okay, yes, to the best of my knowledge, just from all the experience of working on my own, my own profile and everyone else's, you don't, you're not punished, but you're never going to move up. So you're going to have five to seven auditions a day and that's how it's going to be. Or as you grow over time and you're succeeding, you become a top talent. You have 100 auditions a day to choose from. Everything is 100% and now the world is your oyster and you can choose what you want to do. You're not relegated to just five auditions. You're like, well, I mean, like, I guess I'll do these because I paid my money. So it's, it's taking two things into consideration. Your ability to optimize and show what you can do and then back it up in the audition. And I feel like, to me, I like that. I think that's great. It shouldn't just be that you could slap in some keywords. You know, you should be good at what you do. You should be able to, you know, back it up. But. But that's really how the algorithm works. So just to put it simply, it gets an audition. It's like, okay, I have a corporate narration audition, or video narration, they call it there. Does Gina have a clip in it? Yes. Okay, then I'll, I'll start to move the needle towards sending it to her. Then when she gets video narration auditions, does she tend to do them? Is she interested? Yes. And then finally, does she shortlist? Does she book? And really what the algorithm is trying to calculate is what are the chances that you're going to book this job? Because if the chances are that you're going to book it, if it's high, that's great for the buyer because it's giving them exactly who's strong in the genre and who's optimized for it and who does well. So everybody wins. And I, I spoke to someone at Voices not that long ago, and they said that clients are staying on the platform more than ever. Like, their completed rate is very high. More than in the past, where people would abandon, maybe go somewhere else or say, forget it, nevermind. But the algorithm seems to be working on both sides, so that's, you know, in a nutshell, what it does.

A (28:51)

So in some senses, it's actually similar to how voice 1, 2, 3 works. It's, you know, post your clips, get your keywords, get matched, audition for the stuff that fits.

B (29:02)

Yeah.

A (29:03)

You know, with the prime difference.

B (29:04)

So similar.

A (29:05)

Yeah, the prime difference being on. On 1, 2, 3, that if you, if you audition too much or if you don't get those shortlists, you know, you end up in the basement. And it's hard. Really. Well, it's also really hard to get out.

B (29:17)

It is very hard.

A (29:17)

It's really hard to get out. And so that makes people want to be much more strategic. Okay.

B (29:22)

I am very careful on Voice 1, 2, 3 about what I audition for. I am at the $2,200 level, full discretion. And I'm very picky. I'm like, oh, my God. If I don't get a. Like, because I'm gonna drop. And I, I'm. I'm either I, I'm usually go back and forth between top 10, top 20%. One time I went to top 30 and I want to like, cry on the floor, which I know isn't a big deal, but it just feels bad. It's like I, I feel like I'm always taking a gamble. So my Strategy on voice 1, 2, 3 is I audition just for what I'm right for. And every now and then something that kind of sticks out at me, I'm like, ooh, let me take the chance. And then when I don't get the like, I'm like, see, I knew it. I should have just stayed in my lane.

A (30:01)

Is that the primary difference then between 1, 2, 3 and voices.com? with voices.com, you're not. You literally could audition for everything.

B (30:11)

You can.

A (30:12)

You shouldn't, but you could.

B (30:13)

You shouldn't. But you, I mean, you should audition for what you're right and good for. And I think that's a new message that they've been putting right at the bottom of their page is when you're replying to a job, it says, like, ensure. It says, increase your chances of getting hired by ensuring your file is accurate to the client's job requirements. So it's trying to encourage people gently to audition for things that they're really right for. But I would say on there, I'm good for at least 10 auditions a day every day on there, if not closer to 20, depending on, you know, what else is going on. And on Voice123, like, I might do one to three, you know.

A (30:50)

So you, you mentioned earlier, you, like, you said, oh, I could do 100 auditions a day on that site. Are you actually seeing 100 auditions a day on the site?

B (31:00)

I'll look right now. Hold on.

A (31:01)

So you're actually 100 auditions a day on voices.com.

B (31:07)

I have 131 jobs sitting there.

A (31:11)

131 auditions?

B (31:12)

Yeah. And they're. And by the way, like, I, if I had the time, like, if I was like, I have the time, like, I would. There's not a lot of that.130 that I'd be like, no way. Like, I'm not touching this with a 10 foot pole. It's not like I'm digging through the garbage to be like, hey, like, here's one that's good. Like, they're like, they're all, they're viable. They're good.

A (31:32)

So there's 131 auditions sitting there. And in theory, again, if you had the time, you could audition for all 131 of those and it wouldn't have.

B (31:41)

A negative bearing, to the best of my knowledge.

A (31:45)

Of your knowledge. It would not have.

B (31:46)

I would not grow from there.

A (31:48)

Yes. Okay.

B (31:49)

I'm not going backwards. I'm just. So. So what? Most people. Most people that I coach and they're great. They come, you know, from being coached by, you know, whatever J. Michael Collins and getting demos with him or Brad Highlander, whoever, you know, like, they're not just, like. They're people that know what they're doing. And the. The issue that they're having is that they're only sitting at, you know, again, five to seven to ten auditions a day and they can't really move up. And after we make the changes that I, you know, that we walk through, suddenly they're like, wait a minute, I'm now getting 15 to 20 auditions a day. I'm getting shortlisted, I'm booking. I'm a rising star. Like, things are changing and there's a lot of things you can do on the platform that have an immediate, and I literally mean an immediate impact on how well you're doing. And people just either don't know or refuse to take the time. So I'm usually like, unless you're 100% voice match for every job, I actually refuse to hear any of your complain. And then I will listen to you once you've done that and you're still struggling, because then, you know, there's things that we could try to work on from there. You said, I don't want to hear it.

A (32:51)

You said you're at 2200 on 1, 2, 3.

B (32:53)

Yeah.

A (32:55)

So what's that? That's the second highest tier, right? Yeah, the only.

B (32:58)

Only because I've been on the other wait list for four years.

A (33:01)

Yeah. My understanding is that you literally almost have to wait for somebody to, like, die to get on that.

B (33:07)

They have this thing where if you're in the top 10 of the wait list, they can pull from anybody. And I guess it's just. It's not my time. I don't know what to do. I don't know. I asked. They're probably so sick of me. I'm always like, can I please be on the five tier? But still, can you take my money? They're like, no.

A (33:24)

So you're at the $2,200 tier on voice 1, 2, 3, voice 123. Approximately how many auditions a day are you seeing on that site?

B (33:34)

Hard to say. Like, I'm trying to look right now, like right now on there as I'm looking 30, so.

A (33:41)

30. Okay. So that's a, there's a significant difference. And I mean, obviously it can vary from day to day or whatever, but even at that $2,200 tier, you're still not see. And if you've got 30, realistically you probably shouldn't be auditioning for any more than what, three to five of those? Unless you like, absolutely think you can nail it.

B (33:57)

Unless you think you can nail it. And also let me Clarify, like there's 130 auditions on voices.

A (34:01)

You.

B (34:02)

I'm not saying like all of those could probably or didn't come all in today. Right. Because some of them are here, but they're on for, you know, a couple of days or whatever. But it's like at any given time, any given time, and I mean, Christmas Day, there's 75 auditions. You know, there's never a time where I'm like, boy, it's really scarce today.

A (34:18)

How much are you paying on voice?

B (34:20)

500 a year.

A (34:21)

500 a year on voices.com. so they only have one tier now.

B (34:25)

Yes.

A (34:26)

So.

B (34:27)

And that was done away with.

A (34:29)

Does anybody get access? If I went and signed up today, I'm gonna get access to all those auditions or because. So you have access to those. To more auditions because of the number of jobs that you've booked, the number of shortlists that you've got and you're considered a top talent.

B (34:46)

Yeah, and I used to be a platinum member. Right. I used to pay the full amount and you would get access to other things, you would get things faster. But they did away with that a few years ago. They refunded everybody. And I'm pretty, I can't remember exactly what happened. I'm almost positive they refunded everyone and they gave us a regular membership, free for the year or something, all of the platinum members. And then that's when the algorithm started to change and become more merit based. So like nobody can go on Voices right now and be like, hey, I'll pay you 10 times what someone else is paying. And I would like all of the auditions like, you're not getting there. And I actually just talked to a very successful voice actor who was thinking about jumping onto voices and they were like, but see, I don't want to start from the bottom. They're going to think I'm new. And I said, no, no, but there's things you can do that will move. I know this. I've heard have this conversation 755 times with people. Like, there's things that you can do that would start to move the needle forward and the engine going a lot faster.

A (35:41)

The thing that. And look, I've always said this about voices.com and again, I know everybody has a very. Their opinions of voices.com are as cemented in their heads as their opinions of my opinions of voices.com and so they overlook some of the other things that I've said. But I have always thought that voices.com, regardless of all the other stuff, gave the most level playing field.

B (36:07)

It's true. I think so.

A (36:09)

I hate the tiered membership. I hate the tiered membership. Now, I'm sure if I was a platinum talent, I would probably feel differently about it. But I hate the tiered membership. I hate the fact that I can give you $500 a year and you openly admit to me that I'm only going to see 50% of the auditions and I'm going to get them after everybody else. That data is right on Voice 123 site. It's included in the buy now box. It literally tells you you're going to get this percentage of auditions. You're going to get them after all of these other tiers. And there's this many people that are signed on at that level. So there is transparency. I'll give them credit for the transparency. But at the same time, it's like, okay, so literally I'm paying $500 a year and I know right out of the gate I'm going to get half the auditions that are available and I'm going to see them after everybody.

B (36:53)

And you can have it after everyone else read. You could have it after everybody. $5,000 people read who are all like. I mean, you scroll through those, you know, platinum members.

A (37:00)

A lists, right.

B (37:01)

A list people. Right. And then you could go through the 2200 and then the 800 and then the 600s and then you can audition. There's only one problem. The, the. The audition wanted 25 people and 72 have read. So it's like has always bothered me about the platform.

A (37:18)

So on voices.com it's a much more level playing field. Now, I'm guessing and correct me if I'm wrong or if you know the answer to this, but I'm guessing if you're a top talent, you're probably seeing stuff a little earlier. Or does everybody. I don't know that. The exact same.

B (37:31)

I don't think so. I don't know that it's earlier. I just think you get more like, to the best of my knowledge, I don't think so. Because I have conversations with people, whether my coaching group or people I'm, you know, just coaching one on one, and they're like, oh, I got this audition. I look, it's like, yeah, I just got it too. Like, I don't think there's that much of a difference. I don't think there's any difference, honestly.

A (37:50)

I could be wrong, but it really is a level playing field.

B (37:53)

Wow. Look at. At the thoughts.

A (37:57)

There's a part of me that wants to try to sign up just to.

B (37:59)

See whether or not they're like, get out of here. I mean, I feel like I could.

A (38:03)

Have this conversation banned on a. On a blacklisted server somewhere or something like that. But no. No. Okay. The other question, and I know this is what you're. You're dying to get to voice 1, 2, 3, as I now understand it had a great conversation with Nikki Schwartz about this.

B (38:19)

Yeah.

A (38:20)

Voice 123 is really two distinct systems. There is the direct. There's the casting system where they send out auditions. You receive the auditions, you go and you audition.

B (38:30)

Yes.

A (38:31)

But I'm hearing more and more people say that up to 50% of the bookings on that site are happening directly. They're happening via search.

B (38:41)

Through search. Yeah.

A (38:42)

I come on the site, I know exactly what I'm looking for. I search for a few profiles. I find the profiles. I direct, invite people. There's never a casting posted for it. And so for voice actors who are crying that they're not getting the access to opportunities on Voice123, part of it might be that your profile is not optimized. You are not. You're missing out on 50% of the auditions because you're not set up for search.

B (39:05)

Yes.

A (39:06)

Voices.com now works the same.

B (39:09)

Yes. That's that really the biggest opportunity on Voices to me with people is search. Because what a lot of people do is they do the keywords. So there's doing well in terms of the job match, but they're counting out search. And I get private invited every day or every other day, but very consistently and not just by the voices professional team, but by random clients who I've never heard before. I just got one yesterday for the, like a female sports announcer voice that they heard my clip and invited me. I've had someone recently just offer me a role in a video game just off of Hearing my warframe clip and saying, you know, we have a role for you. And I think that that's the thing that I don't think people even think is happening, but it is. Search is so important. I was just yelling at someone yesterday because this guy is. He's a great guy that I coach, and he's from Long island, and he's like a real New Yorker type. And I said to him, why, when I search New York accent are you not on the first page? I mean, what are we doing? Why am I number. Why am I the first person that's coming up? I'm in Connecticut. Like, why am I. Why is my New York clip coming up before you? He's like, I have no idea. But, yeah, I'll tell you why.

A (40:19)

Because search is hard.

B (40:21)

Search is very hard.

A (40:22)

And most of us are lazy.

B (40:23)

Search is hard, and people don't want to take the time to put up 85 clips and write descriptions for all of them. You know, and I get that. But a lot of success in this industry and I think, you know, you or J. Michael or whoever would agree it's being willing to do the things that other people aren't willing to do. That's why you say do the thing. Because you could tell them till you're blue in the face to send the emails. But you know that most people aren't sending emails.

A (40:46)

No, most people don't do it.

B (40:46)

No. They want to complain about how things aren't going their way. And I'm like, what'd you do today that was actionable? And the answer's nothing.

A (40:55)

Full disclosure. Yeah. I'm working with Brad Heiland. Coaching with Brad Heiland. Brad literally twisted my arm off virtually through zoom and made me sign up for Voice 123.

B (41:10)

Wow.

A (41:11)

Like, literally, physically made like, I was.

B (41:13)

Afraid he said, log in right now.

A (41:15)

If I didn't do it, I was worried that there would be physical consequences when I run into him at Mayvo here in a week. I had not logged into Voice123 in a decade. I had demos older than my kids. So one of the things that I've been working at is going through the process of taking down all of my old clips. I took everything off, and I've been putting up the new stuff. It fricking sucks. I hate it. It makes me so angry. I hate it so much. And so on that side, I understand why people don't want to do it because it sucks. But I also understand that that's why somebody like Nikki Schwartz has a business model, because there is a part of that is looking at her and saying, I want to give you all my money. Just do this for me. You do the equivalent. You offer the equivalent on the voices.com side. Because this stuff matters.

B (42:11)

It really matters.

A (42:12)

Now that we have spent 40 minutes just making you feel bad and making you feel like you're part of the.

B (42:18)

Criminal enterprise, I tried to handle it as best as possible. I hope that voiceover community is like, you know, Gina, good job.

A (42:25)

Now that we've got past that part, let's get to the good stuff.

B (42:28)

Okay.

A (42:28)

Let's get to the good stuff. Wow, I made it. We're ready to talk about the happy stuff now.

B (42:32)

Okay, I'm excited.

A (42:33)

You have said several times in this interview that there are things that you could do immediately. Like right now, go to your voices.com profile. Boom, it changes. Correct. Talk to me about one or two of those things.

B (42:48)

Okay, I'll give you an example. So what most people do is they pay their $500, they slap up some demos, and then they sit back and wait for things to happen to them and then are dissatisfied with the results of. Of this endeavor. But I'll give you an example. Let's say you have an audition that comes in and it's 90%, and you're like, why? You know, it's a video narration. It's, you know, it's my age range. It's, you know, what's going on here? Well, the reason why you're 90% is because you're missing something on the optimization side of the clips that you have up. Maybe you don't have the word conversational in there. Maybe you didn't choose the word corporate, so you can't affect what has already come in that job. That's 90%. It's 90%, and you're not changing that. But if you look and you say, you know what? I don't have a clip that's marked corporate and professional. You're right. I should add that or I should edit that. The very next time an audition comes in with those keywords, you're gonna match for it and you're going to be a hundred percent. Or you could also say, hey, like, I have a new clip. Let me put it up. You know, I got. I did this job, or I've split my demo up six ways or whatever that is gonna show up in search immediately. I did one for a company that works in crypto. It was like a bitcoin explainer. I put it up and just to check. I mean, five minutes later I searched it and it was the first clip that came up. So optimization on Voices has immediate impacts. If we're talking about your website, you're playing more the long game. But I love that there's things that I can do that actually affect what's happening. I don't feel like it's out of my control.

A (44:22)

Talk to me about the. The. So you say, you know, you, you match 90.

B (44:26)

Yep.

A (44:28)

Does it ultimately matter like you, you got the audition. So if you have the ability to submit for the audition, does it make a difference? If you are a 90 match, how does that work?

B (44:39)

Okay, some people will say to me like, I'm not 100 but I'm 90. And that's pretty good. I'm 80. That's, you know, like I only do things that are 80 and up. And I'm like, again, if you're not 100 across the board, like we're working at a disadvantage because by default Voices sorts everyone's auditions by best match, meaning 100%. 90%. 80%.

A (44:57)

You're talking on the back end.

B (44:58)

On the back end, buyers side. Yes. But it doesn't tell them, let's say I'm 90, I'm 100, you're 90 or whatever. Vice versa. It's not going to tell them that. Just like in Google search results. One thing that Google had found was as people were clicking to page two and three, the drop off rate was huge. People were just not, they were thinking, oh, this can't be relevant. That's not true. There's billions of search results. Of course there's going to be things on page two, number 11 in the search. That's relevant. So instead they were doing endless scrolling and it wasn't telling you where page two was. And this is the same is true here. It doesn't say, oh, she's 90, he's 100, she's 80, he's 70. But it sorts you by that. Now you can also sort it by newest. So if I'm casting on a rolling basis and I go get lunch and come back, I could see who else has come in. I could sort it by rating by post, price by name. But I would say that typically they're looking definitely always best match newest. If we're casting on a rolling basis and rating, if you want someone who's experienced according to the platform, I should.

A (45:58)

Say you go out, you're convinced the voices.com is the level playing field and I'm ready to forgive them and I'm Ready to. I'm ready to move on. Gina convinced me she's going to get an ambassadorship with voices.com. she'll have an honorary invitation to London, Ontario.

B (46:14)

I'm going to Canada.

A (46:16)

You have your commercial demo, your corporate demo, your explainer demo, your elearning demo, whatever. You've got five great demos. Jmc, whatever produced, right? Amazing. If you just go on to voices.com and upload those five full length demos.

B (46:32)

I'm already rolling my eyes.

A (46:33)

I'm like, yeah, you're doing it wrong. You're doing it. Which is what Everybody does.

B (46:36)

The 30 clips that it is because each of those demos is six clips and that's 30 right off the bat. So there's no reason. And that's. That goes for voice 1, 2, 3 as well. I have a playlist that is just my on. If we're talking about voice 1, 2, 3, I have a playlist that's just my demos and then I have individual playlists based on the genre. On voices.com I go all demos first, followed by clip, clip, clip, clip, clip. You know, probably like again, 80 clips, 90 clips.

A (47:01)

I was going to ask how many clips do you have?

B (47:03)

Because I was looking, I should have more.

A (47:05)

But speaking of Endless Scroll, I was looking at your profile on voices.com and I was like, oh my God, I.

B (47:10)

Want to be 100 for everything.

A (47:11)

This is literally every project that she's ever voiced in her entire career.

B (47:14)

I'll tell you what she's turned it into. If I'm not 100% for something, I will get to the bottom of it and I will make sure that the next time that doesn't happen. So I feel like it's put me in a really advantageous position. It increases the amount that I'm listen to and then shortlisted and booked. Like I don't want to be behind the eight ball. I don't want to be listened to. 70th and to that point, by the way, another thing that happens that people talk about is, oh, it's a numbers game, you know, 50 people have read. I'm like, if we're reading on the agent side, guys, we're talking about a thousand women. I'll take 50 on any day of the week. It's like, would you rather fight, you know, one gorilla or 100 men or whatever it is like I'd rather fight 50 other women.

A (47:54)

On Voices, I literally asked this question of Kelly.

B (47:58)

What is the question I care on the show?

A (48:00)

When Kelly Mashinsky was on the show, I said to her like, how many auditions are you talking about? Average. She's like, she said, on average, 600. But it could be more and it could be correct. Right. And Marilyn Whisner, when I had her on, she said the same thing as Tina Morassi.

B (48:13)

Same thing.

A (48:13)

It is. It is funny, that, but you're right, people are like, oh, 35 people have already submitted. It's not even worth it.

B (48:19)

Yeah, this is the piece that some people don't realize that kind of opens their eyes as well. Okay. If 50 people have read, right, you see this audition, it's an online ad, the rate is good. 50 people already. Think yourself, I'm not really going to read. You're 100% job match. You're not 51st, you're probably 20th. Because the site automatically sorts by best match. So if you prioritize optimization and you give a good audition, you're going to get listened to faster because it's not just sorting it in the number it came in.

A (48:47)

It sounds to me like what you're actually doing is putting yourself at a disadvantage by giving us all of the key.

B (48:52)

I know. You know what? As I'm, as I've been working on.

A (48:54)

This course, if we're all. I've already questioned.

B (48:57)

I've already questioned my life choices with making the course or that, you know, the SEO one as well, because I'm like, wait a minute, this is the thing that's given me a major advantage. But I don't know, there's something about me that I want to help people and I want to be honest and I feel like there's things you can do and I want to, you know.

A (49:17)

Help 100% voice match across the board. Still doesn't mean you nail the audition. And that's still going to be able to deliver when you get in the booth.

B (49:23)

I don't get shortlisted all the time, by the way. I don't want people to think like, wow, she's just killing it. Like, no, I constantly don't get shortlisted. And I'm like, well, you know, if I got upset every time someone said no to me, I would have quit a long time ago.

A (49:34)

She secretly got an inside hook to voices doc. Obviously they're. They're.

B (49:39)

Yeah, obviously door delivering her.

A (49:41)

All of the audiences on a silver platter.

B (49:43)

Yeah, she's a spokesperson. No, I swear to you, I get nothing for it. And. And I really. But. But what, Bo, what bothers me, I think what's really motivated me is it bothers me when people complain about things that they absolutely have control Over. So a great example is when people post on Facebook and they're like, I just got another A audition. And I'm like, well, do you have the data sets category on? Because if you do, you're asking for it. So why are you on Facebook trying to, you know, rage, bait everybody when you literally told the system you wanted it? Like, I get so mad. So part of me is like, you're complaining about things that you actually have control over, and you're feeding, you know, newer voice actors or people who don't know, like, fairy tales that are not true. So I'm willing to live in reality. But there's some, there's some things where I'm like, you're, you're, you're doing it to yourself. Like, this is a you problem, which is a good thing. Because if it's a you problem, if it's a you problem, you can solve it. If it's a them, like, if it's a voices problem, if It's a voice 1, 2, 3 problem, you're the victim. But if it's a you problem, that actually gives you the power to do something better. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. I get so fired up about it. I'm always yelling on this podcast.

A (50:50)

I know it's. I gotta put a limit on the volume. But you know what? It's. It's the exact same conversation that I had with, with Nikki and. And I'll tell you who I think probably more it's. It's probably guys like me. And, and when. I mean that. I mean, like, people who have been in the industry as long as I've been in the industry. So when I, when I started doing the online casting platforms. So we're going back like pre2010, right? I'm doing, I'm doing these, these casting platforms.

B (51:22)

Yeah.

A (51:23)

And they worked a certain way.

B (51:24)

Yes.

A (51:25)

And the way they worked was you signed up, you uploaded your full length demo, you sat back, and you waited for the jobs.

B (51:33)

That was the way it was done.

A (51:34)

That was literally the way it worked.

B (51:35)

Yes.

A (51:36)

And for anybody who did awesome when that was happening but did not keep up with the evolution, now they're angry because they used to do awesome and the casting sites owe themselves. And now they're doing whatever, and now they're doing bad. And it's the casting sites, it's their fault and whatever. But it's not. It's because the casting sites moved away from you. It's no different than a talent who was making a crap ton of money. In a particular genre five years ago, but now they're not making a crap ton of money in that genre anymore. And it's probably because the genre moved away from you and you didn't keep up with your read or with what was booking or whatever. And so those are the people that are complaining, often is the people who have done really well in the past, but they're not anymore and they don't understand why. Well, the reason why is because voice 1, 2, 3 of 2025 is not voice 1, 23 of 2010. Voices.com of 2025 is not voices.com of 2010. And some of the stuff that we're continually seeing people complain about is literally stuff that happened 15 years ago.

B (52:42)

Exactly. And they're not letting it go. I mean, to me, it's like you have to evolve with the times.

A (52:45)

It's like you're coming right through the screen.

B (52:47)

I'm like, I will leave through the screen screen about this because during COVID okay, during COVID you have to watch.

A (52:54)

This one on YouTube. By the way, everyone, if you're listening to the audio version.

B (52:57)

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Is there like a noise regulation suppression? Okay, but during COVID there were restaurants, like in my town who just didn't want to do DoorDash and UberEats. They didn't because they don't want to give a cut. But. But I will tell you that a lot of them have closed down because they didn't want to. And now we've never really gone back. I do Instacart. I might as well be. I might as well be the poster child for Instacart, DoorDash and U. Because I use them literally every day. When the building maintenance people see me outside, they're like, what are you getting today? I'm like, I don't know. I just wanted to order more stuff. But businesses who didn't evolve had a hard time. And you have to accept that the world changes or trends change or technology changes, and you just gotta keep up with it. So I couldn't agree more. People are mad about things from 15 years ago. And listen, there's things about 15 years ago I'm mad about too. But. But you can also change your mindset and, you know, roll with the. With the changes as well.

A (53:53)

And that's it. It's keeping up with the evolution of whatever. I mean, that's why we get new demos. That's why.

B (53:59)

Of course.

A (54:00)

Right? Like, this is just. It's. It's the way that the industry moves and the ones who will succeed are the ones who continue to move with it. Yeah.

B (54:09)

And I'm kind of a new school talent though, too, because you've been, you know, doing this longer than I have. You know, in terms of voiceover, I was doing radio for 10 years, podcasting for 10 years, fiverr for five years. And so I didn't really come into the game of agents managers pay to plays until 2020. So it's only been five years for me. So I'm coming into it with a different perspective. Like, I don't have that, you know.

A (54:32)

Oh, yeah, we just, we just lost a bunch of people.

B (54:34)

They're like, get her.

A (54:35)

She's one of those.

B (54:36)

Get her out of here. Then she's a cop. But I will tell you that I think part of the reason that, you know, I was fortunate enough to, you know, ascend the ranks a bit was that being willing to do what other people weren't willing to do, not just listening to everything everybody said and formulating my own opinions and saying that everybody else's opinion of how I run my business earns me $0 a year. And, and, you know, that's my, my favorite, you know, and I feel, I feel like, you know, I've been very lucky. I mean, I think radio and podcasting and, and reporting gave me a really strong background. Driver also played a really instrumental role too. But I'm coming in with a different perspective and I feel like that's. It's nice to have the fresh perspective too, because I do value what someone like you might say or, you know, Karen Gilfrey or Maria Pendolino, people, you know, J. Michael, again, people who have been doing this for way longer than me in terms of the high level of voiceover, I value that. But I just come in with a different perspective. I did. I didn't experience that. So I don't have that, you know, bad taste in my mouth.

A (55:38)

Well, and that's, that's a big part of it too. There's, It's. This is a game. Yeah, it, like, ultimately, the more that I get to understand these sites and, and I'm educating myself because I've been off the casting platforms for a really long time and I know that I don't know everything. I know that what I, what my experiences were are, you know, not necessarily relevant to what is going on on the sites today. And that's one of the reasons why I, I bring you on or I bring on the Voice 123 pros, or I Bring on Nikki Schwartz or whatever. I want to get your. Take your perspective. And the more that I have these conversations, the more that I am convinced that these online casting platforms are just a game. And the ones that are willing to play the game are the ones that are going to win. If you are willing to sit down and upload 100 samples and label a hundred samples and do all the things that are necessary, like you're. You're gonna win and you deserve, you deserve to have an advantage if you're going to put in that one.

B (56:45)

Listen, listen. Of course, I say instead of spending 20 minutes crafting a well written angry Facebook post, put up three to five clips on. On voices and let's do something positive. But people are complaining. I'm like, you paid your $500. It's not going to change if you are typing about it somewhere, but if you did everything you could possibly do. My dogs are barking. They're so mad about it.

A (57:10)

You're making a lot of people very uncomfortable right now.

B (57:12)

I'm sorry. I just, I feel like it. I. It's genuinely to be helpful because it's really not out of your control and. But it's putting in the time and the effort, you know, and. And some people don't want to do that. And I. And that's fine. I understand. Or they. Not only. They don't. They don't know what to do. They don't know what to write. And the truth is, if. Think like a client, what would a client be searching for? Like, I shouldn't be labeling my clips commercial one or corporate narration, demo, because, like, that's not going to help us here. We got to throw things in there that someone would actually be searching for. So it might be like, you know, alpha male, professional female, you know, angry political voice, whatever. But. But I think that if people would take the time to do that and like I said, and then if you're still having problems, then let's have a conversation and I'll talk to you before then. That sounded very dismissive. I will talk to you. Just kidding. I'm not as tough as I'm coming across. My real Italian Sicilian side's coming out right now. But everyone knows I enjoy.

A (58:05)

It's fun sitting here pushing the buttons.

B (58:08)

I'm triggered.

A (58:09)

Okay. You're here because you have the solution to the voices.com game.

B (58:17)

I think so. I think so.

A (58:19)

So tell us about the solution that you have created.

B (58:23)

Well, this is because of you. We were. This is actually your fault. It's him. No, we we had a meeting and I was saying that, you know, I feel like I'm having the same conversation all the time, one on one with a lot of different people and I'm solving, you know, this problem for them. But I, you know, is there a way for me to, you know, maybe not spend as much time one on one and help more people? So, so I made a course called Optimize and Win on voices. I also did my SEO course now, so that's available as well. And, and it's about an hour long and it just goes through the steps of the, the actionable things you can do that'll help you put you in the best position to win. I'm not saying you're going to book jobs. I'm not like one of those people, like a snake oil salesman. I'm not like everybody.

A (59:08)

What happens in the booth is still entirely up to you.

B (59:10)

Right, exactly. But I'm saying this is what puts you in the best position to do well. And then, then you can problem solve from there. Because let's say you do everything right. You know, you're, you're doing well, you know, you're 100% across the board. If you're not getting shortlisted, that's probably. Again, we're back to being a you problem. Is it your sound quality? Is it your reads? Maybe you want to get into some coaching, you know, have somebody like Brad or whoever, you know, work through some stuff with you. Like, I just feel like there's a lot more you could be doing and so that's why I ended up making the course.

A (59:38)

So let's talk about, and I want to be respectful of your time here, but we said before, you know, let's say you've got four or five great demos.

B (59:47)

Yeah.

A (59:48)

And there's five or six clips on each one of those demos. Okay. So you got whatever, 25, 30, five, 30 clips. Right. Realistically, we watch your course, which you said is about an hour. How long does it take us to do what we have to do?

B (60:07)

A while. I mean, hours. Right. I mean, I would say it's going to take a while because you, it's easy to put up the three to five demos and sit back, but, but like is easy really getting us where we want to be. So, you know, it's probably going to take a couple of hours to put up each clip. You need to write a title, a Description. You need three accents, 10 styles, five rules. You know, 30 times. I, you're, I get that people aren't like, yay, let me do this. But what motivates me to always be talking about SEO and optimization is, like, I feel like so much of, you know, voiceovers out of our control. I can't control whether or not I booked the job. I can't control, you know, what my agents send me. I can try. I can't control whether agents, you know, bring me on in the first place. But. But this is something that I can affect. And so I'm, like, very obsessed with it because I feel like I did something that moved me forward and that had a positive impact immediately.

A (61:02)

But realistically, we're talking about you're gonna spend $500 to go on the site for a year. So a year's worth of access to auditions. If it is not worth it for you to spend 10 hours. Four hours.

B (61:16)

Okay, fine. Let's say five to 10.

A (61:18)

Five to 10 hours. Okay. So if it's not worth it for you to spend five to 10 hours to give you put yourself in the best possible position to maximize return on investment for the year.

B (61:30)

For the year. Can I get five to 10 hours for the year, or is that too much? That's all that. That's what I'm asking.

A (61:35)

Then what are you doing complaining on Facebook? I mean, and that. That's fair. I. And. And I. I think it's important that people understand that I. Look, I said I was miserable when I was uploading my clips to voice123. I'm like, this is the dumbest thing in the world. Why did I even coach with Brad Hyland? Why did I let him talk me into this? I don't even want to be friends. Right. Like, I'm sitting. But the whole entire time. But I'm doing it because this is what has to be done to play the game. And, you know, I haven't done the Voice 123 Pros course at this point or I haven't talked to Nikki or whatever at this point. And so I know I can take it. Take it a step further, but I go through that process because I know this is what it takes to play the game on this site in 2025.

B (62:23)

Correct.

A (62:23)

What you are talking about right now is what it takes to play the game on voices.com in 2025. I have one more question I want to ask you.

B (62:32)

Let's hear it.

A (62:33)

Because I saw something interesting on your profile packages.

B (62:38)

Yes.

A (62:39)

That's something. I mean, I will say it's new because, you know, I haven't been on.

B (62:43)

It's fairly new. I mean, I'd say maybe two years ago, maybe maybe three. It's rolled out kind of slowly and packages kind of give the vibe. I mean, if I could just compare it to something, I'm sure, you know, some. But it's kind of got the vibe of Fiverr where it's like you can just.

A (62:59)

That's what I thought.

B (63:00)

Yeah. I mean, I'll just, just, you know, I'll be real, like, distinctively when I look the vibe of. Right.

A (63:03)

Yeah.

B (63:04)

Where it's like, I will voice this for this price. You know, I can set my. Okay. But again, it's putting the power in our hands.

A (63:10)

You can set.

B (63:10)

You want to do, you want to do a one minute corporate narration video for 250? You can say that on your profile. And I do get hired off my packages. I would say the two that I get hired for most are telephone and ivr and corporate narration. But I've done online ads too. And, you know, I am streaming audio.

A (63:26)

Quick and easy.

B (63:27)

Quick and easy. And I didn't have to audition. Like, please, thank you. You know, and I, I had them up and then I took them down because I was feeling the, the heat. I don't know, people were going off one day on social media and three years ago, me was like, oh, no, like, what if Facebook's mad at me? And I was like, I actually, I'm sorry, respectfully, I don't care. I'm putting them back. I'm going to just keep running my business. So, you know, like, I, they, they come in from time to time and it's just a nice little bonus thing. When I get a booking, I'm like.

A (63:55)

Wow, I don't understand why people would get upset about that because, I mean, you do the same thing on your website. If you had the, you know, like.

B (64:01)

I, of course, like, I, yes. So I, I, I like having them there.

A (64:06)

And there's a lot of people that aren't happy unless they're upset. It's.

B (64:09)

We have to be mad about. Well, listen, here's how I feel about it.

A (64:11)

World that we live in.

B (64:12)

If you're mad about something, it's your way of kind of coping with the rejection of the industry and the difficulty. Like, if it's everybody else's fault, you know, it's like it's your fault and it's your fault and it's because of this and that and the other thing, why I'm not doing well. And I feel like, you know, it's just a bad place to put your energy when. And I'm Just sitting over here. Like, do you know that there's, like, 10 different things you could do that would make it better? Or do you just want to be mad on social media? Like, if you want to be mad, I guess be mad. But I'm just trying to say, like, you could probably in your control that you. Yeah. Like, a lot of things move the needle.

A (64:44)

Yeah.

B (64:44)

Yeah.

A (64:45)

So if somebody wants to find the course, where do they have to go? What are they looking for?

B (64:49)

It's on my website. It's on ginascarpa.com and, yeah, I'm super excited about it. It's. It's out of my. I don't know why it's out of my comfort zone to make the course. Like, I really.

A (64:58)

Because it's such a controversial subject and you're worried.

B (65:00)

I just. I'm stressed about, like, recording it, like, for posterity, even though this is being recorded right now. But I don't know, there's something about, like, this being live the court, like, my coaches coachings or workshops being live, like, putting it up there and just being like, this is the course. But. But I felt like it. It'll be helpful. And if I can. If I can help more people and just give them a roadmap for what to do, I'll feel good about that. So I'm excited.

A (65:23)

I do think that for a lot of people, it's time to give another look.

B (65:29)

Whoa.

A (65:30)

I do. That doesn't mean I'm going and signing up tomorrow. But that's not. That's for other reasons. That's for other reasons. But I do. I mean, it sounds like there are things that have changed. I think if you ask any voice actor who's being honest, there are things about Hidalgo that upset people. And we love Armin.

B (65:49)

There's things about everything.

A (65:50)

There's things about people. I love Armin.

B (65:52)

Armin's great. There's things about people's agents that upset them.

A (65:54)

There are things about agents that upset us. There are things about Voice123 that upset us, but we still look past that because the pros outweigh the cons. Some of the stuff that happened on voice.com happened a long time ago. Is there still some dirty tricks going on on the platform today? Well, probably. Are there dirty tricks going on on Voice today? Probably. Are your agents pulling dirty tricks on you? Some of them probably. Right.

B (66:18)

There was just somebody on Facebook that said they got the same job from two different agents with two different rates. So, again, if we're going to be mad, like let's be mad across the board. Let's not turn someone into the devil here and be like, it's all their fault they're bad and everyone else is good. Someone just said it, like, maybe a week ago.

A (66:33)

Are you sure you're not an ambassador?

B (66:34)

I swear.

A (66:35)

Are you wearing a voices.comt shirt?

B (66:37)

No, I'm wearing one that, you know what I'm wearing? It says, everything will be okay.

A (66:40)

Was that a reminder for yourself as.

B (66:42)

You were going to. Actually, I thought it was going to be a writer for everyone listening, but it's actually for me after this interview.

A (66:47)

You got an emotional support teddy bear there somewhere.

B (66:50)

Wait. Yes.

A (66:52)

Oh, see, perfect.

B (66:54)

We have cinema roll here. So, yes, I do have my support Rabbit.

A (66:59)

A very enlightening conversation, and I think it was a conversation that needed to be had because there are a lot of. There are a lot of old narratives. Now, I don't know if some of those old narratives are still true or not. I genuinely don't. But you also don't find out if you're not willing to have the conversations.

B (67:22)

It's like, AI, we have to be willing to at least talk about it.

A (67:25)

You got to have the conversations. Hey, look, nobody's telling you to go sign up for Voices.com, you don't have to if you don't want to.

B (67:31)

No, I'm not here to tell you to do that. I'm saying if you're on there and.

A (67:34)

You'Re struggling, if you. Well, and. But not only that, I think if you've been on the fence or if you've been nervous about signing up because you've heard some of these old narratives or, you know, you've seen some of the flack and the social media groups and you're nervous about whether or not it's going to push back. But now you're listening and thinking, gosh darn it, I would like to have access to 100 auditions and not have to stress about being punished by an algorithm and wondering whether or not I'm going to end up in the bottom 50% and never get myself back on. Like, I mean, look, there's a case to be made for giving a site like voices.com another look. And I will continue to come back to. All things aside, the buyers on the platform are fully and wholly innocent in all of the sins of the platform itself, and they just want to find great voice actors.

B (68:23)

Exactly. And honestly, like you were saying just earlier, a lot of them just don't know a lot of the nuances of Voiceover like, rates and things like that. I mean, I just did a session this week from something that I booked on, Voices with two massive, massive brands doing a collab together. We got into the session and I said, okay, so how do you want to do this? You want me to do an abc? Whatever. They were like, I actually don't really know. Like, they didn't know how to run a voiceover session. And they were super nice, but it was just not in their comfort zone. And they were like, you know, if it's okay, we'd like you to take the lead. I'm like, okay, great. Other times, I did a session today, and it was like clockwork. That team that I worked with today was on top of it, and they knew what they were doing, but. But, you know, you just. You run the gamut of people on there, and I don't think it's our.

A (69:03)

Job as a professional to be able to deliver what the client needs and do it in a professional way. Right.

B (69:07)

I like to think most people don't have nefarious intent. And I don't try to. I try to walk around not being too cynical and untrusting, but just kind of having my radar up. That's me.

A (69:18)

I think that's. I think that's probably a fairly. Fairly respectable place to operate from. Probably a lot less stressful place to operate from.

B (69:24)

I don't know. I feel like I'm also stressed a lot, too, so I don't know if it's totally working.

A (69:27)

Well, that's because you get guys like me that bring you on the podcast.

B (69:29)

Yeah, this is stressful. No, I'm just kidding. This is actually fun. And I enjoyed yelling for an hour.

A (69:34)

Yes, it was. It was enlightening. It really. It really was enlightening. And that's why. That's why I want to have these conversations. So, Gina, thank you for being willing to put yourself out there. And if the podcast doesn't get canceled, because I dedicated an entire episode to voices.com, then please don't cancel us. We'll do another one later on down the road to talk about AI SEO, and that one will for sure get us canceled.

B (69:56)

I'm coming back. You can't stop me.

A (70:00)

Thank you, Gina, for coming on and for everything that you shared. And we'll put the course and all that information in the show notes so people can check it out.

B (70:06)

Awesome. Thank you. The Everyday Veopreneur podcast, available everywhere. Find podcasts are given away for free mostly.

A (70:14)

We think you have a great website. Right? Well, make sure you host it at some place that doesn't suck. Hey, it's Brad Newman, fellow VO Pro for 28 years and owner of Upper Level Hosting.com. people ask, why us? And that's simple. We make it easy, respect your time, save you money, and just make all the magic happen. You don't need to know all the tech stuff when it comes to hosting your website. We got you ask around. Tens of thousands of client interactions later and six years of amazing customer service and not a single negative complaint. Ever. Upper level hosting.com and scene.

B (70:47)

And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for hanging out. Want more? Veopreneur Goodness. Jump online at veopreneur. Com.