← Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott
Everyday VOpreneur® with Marc Scott
Why Your Audition Isn't Booking; Insights from Casting Pro Mary Lynn Wissner
00:58:15
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Transcript145 lines
- [00:00]
Marilyn Whisner
Stop falling in love with your voice.
- [00:03]
Mark Scott
Don't tell me I gotta start watching TikTok.
- [00:05]
Marilyn Whisner
Voiceover Commercials are the hardest acting genre there is.
- [00:10]
Mark Scott
2015 conversational is not 2025 conversational.
- [00:15]
Marilyn Whisner
Every commercial is a reason, you know, so create that reason. Remember, you all sound the same to me. You're a voice actor, you're an entrepreneur, you're a veopreneur. Welcome to the everyday Veopreneur podcast, your guide through the business of voice.
- [00:32]
Mark Scott
I've got two quick and easy favors I'd like to ask. If you've been enjoying the everyday Veopreneur podcast. First and foremost, could you take a minute to leave a positive five star review wherever you enjoy the show? Apple Podcasts, podbean, Spotify, whatever. Secondly, make sure that you subscribe wherever you are enjoying the podcast. That way you are never going to miss another episode whether you are enjoying the show on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, whatever. So a review and a subscribe. Thank you.
- [01:03]
Marilyn Whisner
Are you on the edge of your seat yet? You should be.
- [01:06]
Mark Scott
We are not an algorithm. We are humans who love the craft of voiceover and love finding the perfect voice voices for your project. Now that is the kind of person I want to sit down and have a conversation with. She brings a couple of decades of experience in the voiceover casting world and I know that there are things that we can absolutely learn from her. Welcome to the show, Marilyn Whisner.
- [01:30]
Marilyn Whisner
Thank you. It's. It's embarrassing or like maybe a little humbling to say three deck. Three decades.
- [01:35]
Mark Scott
Three decades.
- [01:36]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah. I sometimes now I'm thinking, oh, I don't know, maybe I should stick with the two.
- [01:40]
Mark Scott
But no, right. I've said that before. There comes a point where you don't want it to be over a certain timeline because then people start to question if you're old, are you relevant or. I know, yes, I feel that. So I.
- [01:54]
Marilyn Whisner
Discussion.
- [01:55]
Mark Scott
We just say decades of experience.
- [01:57]
Marilyn Whisner
I'll be truthful, I'll own it. I'll own it. 35 years. There you go. Actually, even a little bit more because I started my company 35 years ago, but I was working somewhere else for a couple years before that, so. But I was just a little child. I was this prodigy and they said, oh, you know, so I'm just kidding.
- [02:16]
Mark Scott
I would love to hear the story because when you're a kid and they ask you in school, what do you want to be when you grow up and everybody says they want to be a firefighter or they want to be a pilot, I don't Know that I've ever been in a classroom environment where I've heard a kid say, I want to grow up and be the most stellar casting director that ever cast in the history of Hollywood. How did you end up.
- [02:42]
Marilyn Whisner
Good question.
- [02:43]
Mark Scott
As a casting director, what led to that decision?
- [02:47]
Marilyn Whisner
I didn't start out with. You're absolutely right. When I was a kid, I wanted to be. Well, I wanted. At first I wanted to be a Broadway star and then I wanted to be a news reporter. I wanted to be Diane Sawyer. That was my dream, to be a news reporter. I love news. So I went to ucla. I grew up here in la. I grew up in the entertainment industry. My dad is a teenager TV producer and he was one of the pioneers of videotape. And so I grew up around studios and things like that. And then I. When I was a teenager, my. My parents wouldn't let me get into acting, but I still loved it. So I did all the plays and things in high school. And then when I was about 16, I got into doing on camera commercials. I loved it. It was so much fun. And I did it mostly for the money. And at that time, it was a really good time for my sort of look. You know, they wanted that kind of all American look and the freckles and the ponytails, the whole thing. So I did really well with that. I went to ucla. They didn't have a broadcast journalism major, but I had always wanted to go to ucla, so I went there. I had a major in English and then I also concurrently went to Cal State Northridge out here because they had broadcast journalism. So I got two degrees. But when I graduated, I couldn't find a job. And, you know, I was still living at home and my parents were kind of like, yeah, okay, it's time to get a job, girl. And I mean, I was. I was applying at news stations, radio stations, and I did get a couple offers, but, you know, this was the late 80s and back then, you know, the pay was horrific and.
- [04:27]
Mark Scott
Oh, that hasn't changed in radio, just so, you know.
- [04:30]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah. And I, you know, I don't know if I just. Whatever. I just. And probably a little bit of it was fear. Like I was afraid. I don't want to move to Nebraska all by myself and start fair. So anyway, I looked in the Hollywood Reporter, you know, which is a trade magazine, and I saw a job for it said assistant agent. And I thought, well, I can do that. I've had agents, you know, because I knew I didn't want to continue being an Actor. I did that mostly to pay for college and stuff. And so luckily for me, it was with Don Pitts. And Don Pitts is the guy, one of the Found one of the guys out in the industry that started the whole business of voiceover agenting. There was a three few guys back in the day. Charles Stern, Don Pitts, and Herb Tannen. Oh, and Steve Tischerman. And Don was amazing. And he had the creme de la creme of voice talent back then. And I, you know, here I was, I think I was 22, and I'm like, okay, I'll do this. And Don was so chill. He used to just say, yeah, go direct Orson Welles there in the booth. I'm like, okay. You know, And I was directing Orson Welles and Casey Kasem.
- [05:36]
Mark Scott
And that's not intimidating at all.
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Marilyn Whisner
No, you know what? I was very. I just. I wasn't intimidated. I was a huge movie fan, and he was actually very nice. Unlike that, you know, video or that. That famous thing you hear, you know, frozen peas. Bob Bergen was 17 years old. He was a client. Like all these, you know, June Foray, like, the legends of voiceovers were our clients. So it was amazing to be in the booth and direct these people on commercials. And this was pre Internet and pre voice casting. The only voice casting facility was the voice caster. That was the only voice casting facility in the country. And so after a couple years, I got. I did get moved up to agent, but I didn't enjoy being an agent. It was intense. You know, I. I would be like, oh, my God, I got to get these guys jobs. They have kids in college, and it was overwhelming. And then Bob Lloyd, who owned the voice caster, asked me if I wanted to be a casting director. And I said, yeah. So I jumped at that and fell in love with casting. And so again, like I said, that was the only voice casting facility in the country. I think one had opened up in New York, but back then it was ad agencies would either send their copy to the voice caster or to the talent agents. That's the only way they could get talent. And this was strictly LA or New York. Nobody in the rest of the country was getting this stuff.
- [06:57]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [06:58]
Marilyn Whisner
So we were nonstop casting all day. There was, like, four of us casting girls, and you just be in your booth all day. And they'd say, okay, Mary Lynn, you're. You're casting two radio spots this morning, an animation series in the afternoon, and then we're going to have you work on this narration project, too. So every day Was different. And it was just kind of like you'd open the lobby door, and then all the actors would be like, okay, what booth do you want me in? And it was so much fun. It was so much fun. And I didn't know then how magical it was, you know, I mean, I. I always wish. I wish we had our cell phones then, you know, taking pictures.
- [07:35]
Mark Scott
All the pictures and videos and Facebook memories that could have popped up in your feed. Sharing.
- [07:40]
Marilyn Whisner
No, I talked about that with a lot of my friends, you know, who are also sort of veterans in the industry. Like, had we only known. We were just kids.
- [07:47]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [07:48]
Marilyn Whisner
And so I worked there for two years, or actually a year and a half, and I had a few good friends, some agents, and. And Tom Pinto, another really very dear friend of mine, that back then, it still is, who said, you should do your own. You should start your own. You're so good at this. Start your own company. And I'm like. And so I did. I started voices, voice casting in 1990 and have had it ever since. So that's how I got into casting. And so, yes, I did not start out being a casting director. It was never on my radar, but I fell into it. And I think when you fall into something and you end up loving it, you just continue to nurture it. And. And I always say, I have two daughters. I always say, it's my third child. I. I mean, I. I treat that, you know, this business is a family member for sure.
- [08:39]
Mark Scott
So. So let's talk about the actual role of the casting director, because I think that that's something that isn't always wholly understood. So in the timeline of, I don't know, a big commercial project hitting the air, we know agents, right? We get agents who send us auditions and stuff like that. And sometimes we'll see those auditions and we'll see your name or your logo on it or whatever. But how does the casting director. What role do they play, and how do they actually fit into that timeline?
- [09:11]
Marilyn Whisner
So we get hired by ad agencies or production companies that will reach out and say, hey, whether they know me, you know, let's do another job together, or they found me some way. We're looking for this voice. I work with the producer, sometimes a copywriter, account exec. I flesh out what they need, what kind of voice they're looking for, and then I will read, depending on the voice, I will reach out to agents also, because I'm a coach. I've been a voiceover coach for about 30 years as well. I send copy to students of mine all the time because a lot of them don't have agents. You know, it's really hard to get an agent now. So send stuff to them. I throw the net out wherever it needs to go to find that voice. So, yes, some agents I know, you know, they'll get our stuff on our letterhead and they take the letter hat off when they send the information to you, so you don't know it's coming from me. Some agents keep the letterhead on there. Some managers do, some don't. You know, it. It's. I'm not particular about who. No, I take that back. I am particular about who I send it to because that's my job. I need to find that voice. So whether that person, you know, whether an actor is represented or not, I will reach out to them. I'll find them some way. So that's kind of how that works. I have some agents that I have been close with for, again, decades, and some that are kind of new, but I really have built a good relationship with them and I trust them and they give me some great talent. So after I get all those auditions, then I sort of curate after listening to all the auditions and figure out, you know, who to send to the client. That's how that works. That's how I do it.
- [10:59]
Mark Scott
How much wider has the net gotten over the years? Like you said originally, it was literally la, New York, period.
- [11:06]
Marilyn Whisner
It's much wider. But, and I'll be honest, I will be honest and I. It's funny, I was a guest at a workshop the other night and I, I said this and I didn't mean it to sound cavalier, but seriously, I could cast anybody I need here in la. You know, it's la, it's Hollywood. There's every, every actor in the world is here. But, you know, I do like to obviously spread it out and, and share the love. So, yeah, the net has gotten much wider. I do tend to rein it in a little bit compared to some other casting friends out there. Number one. Because I don't have a huge staff. I'm pretty much the one that listens to all the auditions. And honestly, I don't think I need to, you know, I have never not found a voice.
- [11:52]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [11:52]
Marilyn Whisner
With my. The way I do it. So sometimes I think, why do I need to do all that extra work and throwing it out to, you know, five different agencies in Washington and six different agencies in Atlanta? You don't need to, you know.
- [12:09]
Mark Scott
How much influence do you ultimately have? Do you. Do you get to go to the client and say, look, it's one of these five or good question. Ultimately, who decides?
- [12:19]
Marilyn Whisner
Well, so ultimately I'm the gatekeeper at the, you know, because the auditions come to me. So typically, the way it works. Let's. I, let's. I always use this example. Let's say I get 500 auditions. I listen to the auditions. I take that 500. My system is I usually narrow it down to, after listening to the first line, I narrow it down to like my top 50. Then I narrow that down, listen to their whole auditions and narrow it down to like my top 25. From that 25, I will send that out to my clients. Some of my clients, I have some ad people say, I only want to hear your five favorite. Some will say, I only want to hear your 10 to 12 favorite. Most of them I can get to listen to 20, 25 people. So a lot of my clients will then take those submissions I gave them, say they're 20 auditions and then they will choose. I do have some clients that'll say, okay, these are our top three favorites. Can you tell us about them? And fortunately, because I do know most voice talent out there, I can say, oh, well, Mark's great because he knows, he knows a lot of improv. He studied at Groundlings or whatever. I can add to it, I will add and be an advocate for the talent. So sometimes, yes, I do have influence on who gets chosen. I do have one ad agency that I work with all the time. And he just says, you pick your favorite, you pick the one that you think fits all this. And so I love that. But it is collaborative in that ultimately I'm the gatekeeper and then I'm giving them these choices and then they decide where to go from there.
- [13:57]
Mark Scott
So, yeah, you've had the good fortune of working with a lot of pretty big name clients over the years. I was looking through the list, history, Disney, HGTV, Hallmark, DreamWorks, I mean, name it, you've worked with them. What are some of the more memorable ones that stand out where you think back and smile like, I can't believe I got to do that or I can't believe I got to work with this person.
- [14:20]
Marilyn Whisner
Or oh, wow, that's a great question. Because there's so many, you know, one that always comes to mind because it reminds me of my dad. My dad was a World War II vet and I got asked to cast this history project. It was a 13 episode series called the Color of War. I mean, this was years ago, but I loved that project. Because my dad was still alive then, and I would go and tell him what we worked on. It was 13 episodes. I cast the narrator, who ended up being Peter Coyote, who's just fabulous. But I also had to cast in each episode up to about 30 or 40 voices per episode, because I had to get. Because what it was is it was all World War II, but in color. And then on top of that, it was journal entries and letters home. So I had to get American voices, French voices, German voices, Japanese voices, speaking English, of course. But it was such a wonderful, intense project. The director was really intense, but it was so joyful to me because my dad was so proud that I was working on it, and it meant a lot to me. And ultimately, I was really proud of that project. I've worked on some that I just. I have really loved, too, like, commercials, you know, years ago, we were the first to cast the Chevron talking cars, you know, and that one is a Clio. It was, like, kind of a big deal. It was really exciting. And the ad people were wonderful. And I. They. They said, we don't even want voice actors. We don't even want actors. And I. They said, we want you to go out in the wilds and find people. And so I would go to the mall and just say to people, if your car could talk, tell me what it would say. Oh, my gosh, I need a car wash. You know, whatever it was, that was really fun. And then they took those recordings and match them to the. I don't know if you have Chevron there in Canada, but.
- [16:19]
Mark Scott
We know. But I'm familiar. But can you. Can you imagine doing something like that today? No.
- [16:26]
Marilyn Whisner
Dad Player. And. And, you know, most real people out in the wild, they're not maybe, you know, they're just. They're not actors. So they're just like, I think my car needs a wash. And, you know, so I was like, can you. You say that a little bit more, you know, excited or. Yeah, my car needs, you know, whatever.
- [16:45]
Mark Scott
It was just the reactions that you would get from people walking up to you. You know, you walk up to them in the mall and ask a random question. But it'd be a fun. It'd be a fun project to do.
- [16:56]
Marilyn Whisner
But it was fun. I. I don't. I don't. I don't get, you know, embarrassed or anything, you know, but it. But it did kind of humble me a little bit because, you know, I was just like, hi, can I talk to you about your car? And they're just like, why did I park somewhere bad?
- [17:11]
Mark Scott
Am I getting a ticket? Am I being towed?
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Marilyn Whisner
It was kind of a weird thing. I was at the Glendale Galleria, just, you know, walking around, trying not to get, you know, the security guy after me.
- [17:23]
Mark Scott
So as you've done this over the years, you've seen a lot of trends come and go. No doubt. Where are we at at this stage of 2025? We're coming into the fourth quarter, coming into the holiday season. My guess is you're probably already starting to see some stuff for early 2026 at this point. Where are we at right now in the commercial world for trending? As you. As you see it, what's booking? What are people looking for?
- [17:49]
Marilyn Whisner
It's still real person, you know, authentic, heartfelt or testimonial or snarky, you know, reflective. There, there's. There is some cynicism there, for sure. And I have seen some like, you know, like a little bit more upbeat, you know, not announcery. I don't want to say that, but just a little bit more friendly, reaching out to, you know, what I always call the warm and friendly read, you know, upbeat, conversational, which is, I really will never go out of style, but a little bit more than I used to see. I've seen that. And I just, I. As I always tell my students, advertising reflects what's going on in our culture. You know, it's. That's why, you know, as a voice actor, stay on top of pop culture. What's going on in TV shows, the news.
- [18:44]
Mark Scott
Wait a minute. So is everything really angry right now? Well, oh, my goodness, yeah.
- [18:51]
Marilyn Whisner
We're in some crazy, tricky times. So it does it. That's. It's reflected in advertising, positively or negatively. So, yeah.
- [19:02]
Mark Scott
How do we take it a step further than that, though? Because conversational, hate that freaking word. Conversational has been the it direction for a decade. But 2015 conversational is not 2025 conversational. So what? How do we take that a step further beyond conversational?
- [19:27]
Marilyn Whisner
You know, great point, because you're absolutely right. 2015 is not today.
- [19:34]
Mark Scott
Yeah, but the directions still say the same thing. They still say conversational, authentic, non announcer, whatever.
- [19:42]
Marilyn Whisner
Because it is what it is. Yeah, but conversational today, you know, if all you have to do is spend 10 minutes watching TikTok and you hear the way people talk. The people are go to Instagram and watch influencers. I'm kind of fortunate because I have two daughters that are in their late 20s, and so they sort of keep me hip to what's happening with the kids. But but don't tell me I got.
- [20:08]
Mark Scott
To start watching TikTok.
- [20:09]
Marilyn Whisner
I know you're.
- [20:09]
Mark Scott
Please don't tell me I got to start watching TikTok.
- [20:11]
Marilyn Whisner
It's a time suck. It really is. I get. I. Sometimes I'll wake up, I'm like. And so I'll start watching it. It's like, what, an hour's gone by? But I learn a lot. I've learned. I've gotten some great recipes and household tricks and things like that there. But you really do learn. The way people talk and conversational now is dictated on the way our platforms out there, social media, television, you know, it's. You just listen to kids nowadays, the vernacular, the things that are going on really does dictate the way we speak. So that has changed. Conversational people are more. They talk faster. I've noticed sometimes they don't enunciate as clearly as they used to, you know, so there is. There is a way of speaking. Speaking now that wasn't, you know, as popular or wasn't even in our mindset or our, you know, world 10 years ago, 20 years ago. So things like that, you. You kind of have to be attuned to and listen to my. I'm so used to listening all the time. I mean, I'll. Even when I'm standing in line at a restaurant, I'm. I'm listening to people. I'm picking up on that.
- [21:33]
Mark Scott
Research never ends.
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Marilyn Whisner
Yeah. Speech patterns and, you know, just all of that stuff, I think really does impact ultimately what we end up hearing in commercials. Did that answer your question? I think it did.
- [21:48]
Mark Scott
It kind of does. You know, I've got a couple of games that I will occasionally play on my iPad. And, you know, you can't play a game on an iPad anymore without 50,000 commercial interruptions. But a lot of those commercials are more. I would call them UGC commercials as opposed to, you know, like a properly casted commercial or. Not that a UGC is not properly casted, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, but I watched some of those, and some of them, I'm like, okay, I get why they did that. Some of them, I'm like, okay, my Gen X brain cannot wrap around somebody talking like this and me actually ever being convinced to buy anything that they're selling. There's like. There's an age difference there. Right. And so that. That makes a difference too, I guess. Who. Who the. Who the commercial is ultimately targeting and what conversational sounds like that's a factor, but has this UGC thing Been an influence. Because so much of what brands are doing now is just trying to grab the. The influencer off of Tick Tock and have them just make an ad. Whatever it comes up with, whatever you come up with.
- [22:48]
Marilyn Whisner
They are so heavily valued, these influencers.
- [22:53]
Mark Scott
Yeah.
- [22:53]
Marilyn Whisner
And here's the other thing. I know this. And again, this is probably the weird thing about the way my brain works, but I. I kind of got into this one thing. I noticed a lot about influencers, especially the women. They do this. They're always talking with their hands. You know, it's like there's the makeup, and then you do this, and if you just do this and this. And I noticed, obviously, physical things will cause intonation and inflection changes in our voice very subtly. But because they're always doing this because they're looking at the camera, and I don't know if it's. Because most of them don't come from an acting background. And this is their way of sort of emphasizing something, but it changes speech patterns. So that's something. I've noticed that. Wow. That is causing a different pattern or sort of phrasing in a lot of younger speech patterns, if that makes sense. So these are all things. And if you do that in the booth, because I've had students do that, try. Try a spot where you're doing it kind of just the regular way you do it, and then try one where you're doing all this and you know, the hands are going.
- [24:08]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [24:09]
Marilyn Whisner
It's. It seems like overkill, but you will hear the difference. Yeah, it's fascinating to me. And so spots that tend to go, you know, where they say, we want a 20 to 30, start gesticulating, you know, get those arms and fingers and pointings out there. I do think that that is another thing that's different that we didn't have 10 years ago or as exaggerated. 10 years?
- [24:34]
Mark Scott
Yeah. Yep. Well, we didn't have the same level. Like, everything's so visual now. Right? It would.
- [24:40]
Marilyn Whisner
Everything. It's.
- [24:41]
Mark Scott
We didn't spend our entire day watching reels on Instagram or videos on TikTok or YouTube shorts or whatever. And so now that we're constantly inundated with that, it definitely has an influence how we.
- [24:52]
Marilyn Whisner
It's disturbing, actually. It's disturbing to me. You know, like, if you. You know, I've. I've pointed out to my kids, like, we'll go somewhere. And I'm just like, God, look how many people just on their phone. It's. It's. I'm not from that Generation. I do it. Of course I do it, but I didn't grow up with a phone in my hand.
- [25:09]
Mark Scott
You know how many times I've looked at my kids when we're out doing something and said, look, you have two choices. You can put that away or I'm going to run it over.
- [25:17]
Marilyn Whisner
It's just, it's. It's weird to me that it's just this appendage that they always have. I know we need it, but there's. That's kind of sad too, because they don't know what it's like to not have it.
- [25:30]
Mark Scott
Let's talk about. Since we're. We're talking social media and influencers and how that has actually influenced reads in the booth and whatnot. I haven't seen much of this lately. Last year I saw it. I saw it a little bit more regularly, but auditions where they were actually asking for social media followings, they wanted that as part of when you submitted. Are you seeing that?
- [25:53]
Marilyn Whisner
Not anymore.
- [25:54]
Mark Scott
It stopped.
- [25:55]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah, I saw it. It was pretty heavy. It was pretty heavy during.
- [26:00]
Mark Scott
They didn't get the answers they were looking for. Probably could be what all these voice actors don't have a million followers.
- [26:08]
Marilyn Whisner
Where I see it more and I sometimes still see it. Although we don't do a lot of animation casting anymore. But, you know, there was a time we kind of did. Now most all animation houses have their own casting directors. That's when I used to see it more and sometimes on video game casting because they use that in their marketing.
- [26:26]
Mark Scott
Want to build in audience.
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Marilyn Whisner
Yeah. Especially like if you're casting something for Disney or Nick, you know, there's, there's. Sometimes they have to make sure people are cool, but I rarely see that anymore. Rarely.
- [26:39]
Mark Scott
Yeah, I was. I mean, when. When the trend first started, it didn't surprise me. It's, you know, built in audience. Right. If it came down to you and one other person and you've got 12 followers and the other person's got 50,000 followers, I could see where that would. That would lean and sway things. But I also wondered if they got to a point where they realized that, yeah, a lot of voice actors don't have massive followings and so ultimately it's not worth it to even bother trying or whatever.
- [27:05]
Marilyn Whisner
So it doesn't matter. Yeah.
- [27:06]
Mark Scott
Interesting. It's funny that that actually went away when in some senses we were so much more focused on social media and all of these things today that you would think that would be. Become something that was more prominent. But.
- [27:18]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Mark Scott
So let's Talk about what makes you lean in when you're listening to. You're sorting. You said 500 auditions, you say, right, you're going through, and you're listening to the first line of every one of those auditions, and you're trying to narrow it down to 50. What makes you lean in and say, that one's getting another take, that one's getting another pass, that one. I'm listening to the whole thing on.
- [27:42]
Marilyn Whisner
I, I have a process when I'm casting, and I, I can't speak for every casting director out there, but a lot of them are my friends. So I know we all sort of similarly do this, but I've got this down, you know, I've been doing this for so many years. So let's just say I get 500 auditions in, which is typical. I'd say any. Depending on the casting budget, I'll get anywhere from 200 to say 500.
- [28:08]
Mark Scott
Okay.
- [28:08]
Marilyn Whisner
On the first pass because I got to get through 500.
- [28:11]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [28:12]
Marilyn Whisner
I will only listen to your first line sometimes the first two lines, because I, I, I can do this, you know, I just.
- [28:18]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [28:19]
Marilyn Whisner
And so what makes me lean in and this is what's again, what something I always tell my students is, remember, you all sound the same to me because you fit the specs. So you're all going to sound the same in one way, shape, or form. Yeah, he might have a little bit more of a raspy voice, or the other guy might have a little more bass in his or something. But for the most part, when you're sitting there listening to everybody's first lines, you all sort of sound the same. What makes me lean in and go, oh. Is when they take that first line and they pull me, the board jaded casting director, into the read. Because they're talking to me, they're not reading to me. And there's something about the way they said that first line, because no matter how many times I've said this and I say it in every workshop, it's still without. It's sort of a phenomenon to me. Three quarters of those auditions I'll get. I don't. No matter how great their voice is, they're reading to me. There's something people do that I kind of call the hard start, where they hit the first few syllables really hard, you know, like, did you know at, at and T. You can get this and this or something like that. So they hit that. Did you know that? Which automatically to me, makes my brain go, oh, they're reading it. They're not talking to me. Whereas if you, whatever you might have done in your, the pre life with it or your, your process is, if you can make that not sound like you're reading and you're, you're talking to me, you will stand out on that audition reel, trust me. Because I'm sitting listening to, you know, guy one. You, you know, did you know at 18, did you know next guy? And then when somebody kind of says, but did you know that if, you know, whatever they did, their inflections or something, it stands out, I automatically shortlist them. So then I'll take. I usually kind of narrow that 500 down to my top 50. Then I'll go and listen to those 50 guys as whole auditions. Take 1, 2, 3, whatever they sent. Then that's what I usually narrow down to my top 50, 25. And from there, depending on how many my client ultimately wants me to send them, is what I'll make, you know, my choice, the top 10, 12, or whatever. So that's, that's how I work. So to make me lean in, it has to be something that stands out on that first line where that actor put some thought into it. Like, yeah, okay, that casting director is listening to everybody's first line and we're all sounding the same. So I gotta do something a little different. Change the punctuation, you know, change the phrasing a little bit. Do something. It's like a broken record, you know, like, you know, when you. Well, did you have albums? I did. When you're a kid and you had albums and you know this one song so well, and then all of a sudden one day there's a scratch and you kind of go like that. You know, that's, that's sort of the analogy I use. It's like, whoa, I jumped up because it sounded different.
- [31:16]
Mark Scott
Makes me, I laugh when you say about having albums, because I saw the most hilarious meme recently and it said one of the reasons why Gen Xers are so angry all the time is because you made us replace our records with cassettes. And then you made us replace our cassettes with CDs. And then you made us replace our CDs with Spotify or Apple Music or whatever. And so I have, I, I have.
- [31:36]
Marilyn Whisner
All that, but I, I have an old school. I got like one year, my kids got me a turntable. And I love going to buy albums and stuff. I love it. It's so cool. Because there's something about that sound, you know, the needle on the record player. It's cool.
- [31:50]
Mark Scott
Talk A little bit more about the pre life. Expand on that. Because I think that that's something that doesn't get discussed enough. And I think it's a concept that people don't explore enough when they're in the booth and auditioning.
- [32:02]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah, you're absolutely right. What most people focus on is their voice. How do I sound? I sound beautiful? Do I sound, ooh, cool? And that's your number one mistake. And I always like, I'll say this to students, stop falling in love with your voice. Stop. You're already in voiceover. You're in it because you have a great voice. Let's just acknowledge that. Yay. You put that worry up on the shelf. It's there, you're good to go. You're in this because of that. Whether you grew up, people telling you that you love to be in front of a mic, all that stuff, you're already here. You're here. So now let's focus on the acting. And that's where people fall short. They forget that it's acting. And I often say that voiceover, especially voiceover commercials are the hardest acting genre there is because you have to take a piece of copy that's in a 30 or 60 second time frame and, and make it sound like it's conversation. And it's got all these silly words like introducing and new and just this Tuesday or whatever and sound like you're talking to somebody. It's hard to do in your own voice. And that's why so many people who come into voiceover and you know, who coach with me, they're like, God, you know, I have a, I have a great voice and I get great copy and blah, blah, blah. But I'm not booking and I'm like, stop worrying about your voice. Let's get the acting. So the pre life is a way to sort of establish yourself in this spot. Even if the spot, the spot starts with introducing new tide or whatever, there has to be a reason you're saying what you're saying. Every commercial is a reason, you know, so you create that reason. I'm in the laundry room and my, my son plays baseball and his uniforms always dirty. And I'm like introducing new Tide because I need this. You know, think of the way to put yourself into the commercial and, and create that scene. I always say, pretend it's an on camera commercial. What would you be doing? I always highly, highly suggest my voiceover students go take an on camera commercial class because you learn how to act in a commercial when you take an on Camera class, commercial class. And it helps you act, it helps you create this scene. Pretend you're in a on camera scene, you know, and create this little scene. Create the bubble. Where am I, who's the person I'm talking to? What am I doing, what am I wearing? You know, do I have the dirty baseball uniform in my hand or whatever it might be, but kind of create that, that scene so that then the words you say, you know, will flow easier. It usually can work. It takes practice and it takes a little. I always say it might add an extra 30 seconds to your audition prep, but it's worth it. So that to me is about how you can create a pre life and how it really will set the stage and kind of launch you into a little bit more of a natural read.
- [35:08]
Mark Scott
I find it so helpful when I get commercial spots that actually have off to the side or in brackets underneath each VO line or whatever, but a description of what the visual is. Yeah, right. It helps me because, you know, going back to what you were talking about on the, how difficult the voice acting is, the acting side in commercials, you get a script on one hand, you'll get a script that is just straight up sales copy, but it can't sound salesy. Right. The directions are literally can't sell. And it's like how do you, as soon as you say the word introducing, like how do you not make that sound salesy? So there's obviously struggle there. Then the other side, the other end of the spectrum that I get that drives me crazy is are these commercials that are like abstract poetry. Like there's absolutely nothing in the copy that has anything to do with whatever the product is at all that's going to happen through the visuals, which is great. But if I don't know what the visuals are, how do I translate? So when I can get visuals or sometimes references are really helpful. Background music can totally change the approach, although that doesn't come very often. But any little extra bit that you can send it makes a big difference in our ability to interpret some of these things and try to figure out what some of these things are. But absolutely just, just trying to go and cold start. It's. It doesn't work usually.
- [36:43]
Marilyn Whisner
No take, take the time to read the specs because that casting director. And this is, this is kind of like, you know, if I had a pet peeve, you know, actors that don't really read the specs and kind of absorb it. We, we have spent a lot of time with that ad agency producer, account exec or Copywriter or whoever it is, really gleaning from them what they want or envision. Think for that voice. We're on your side. We want you to get the booking because then I'll get hired again, you know, so. So we're trying to help you. And you know, as I do so much of this in my coaching and I'm telling actors, you know, words like introducing and only 99 cents and new, you know, words that are advertising words. Yes, they're not part of our normal conversation, but let them do the work themselves. Those words will do the work themselves. We don't hit them hard nowadays. So, you know, you have to find the way to make yourself comfortable saying these things. And again, these are things that I work on with students. But you have to. The easy peasy trick to get into that is to create your scene and be a part of that. Stop focusing on, you know, okay, well, I'm gonna tweak this word and hit this and then I'm gonna go in this register. And they've spent so much time focusing on their sound and not the acting, and that's what's important. And I do acknowledge most people and get into voiceover without an acting background, you know. Yeah, it's just because we got into it because we have a great voice.
- [38:18]
Mark Scott
You know, you couldn't have paid me money to go to drama school or drama class when I was in school.
- [38:22]
Marilyn Whisner
That's why, you know, my coaching, like the way I coach, I teach people. Okay, I acknowledge you didn't go to NYU theater school for four years. Here's tips, tricks, hacks, techniques that will help you sound like you did. And that's why you get a good coach who can help you, you know, decipher specs, you know, put your interpretation on them and then articulate it the way that is authentic to you. And you learn that in coaching and things like that. So. But, but it is an arts, it is an art form and it is, you know, most importantly, it needs to sound organically and kind of authentically you as much as possible. And it's hard. I get it, I get it.
- [39:01]
Mark Scott
Let's dig into this a little bit deeper because I know at one point you had a self direction app. There's a lot of us who can get into the booth when we are being directed and we can deliver a great read. But more often than not, in order to get to that opportunity, we have to self direct on the audition. So pre life we just walked through that and I think that's really helpful. Are there any other tips? I'm sure there's thousands of them. But what are a couple of other tips that you could give to the actor who maybe struggles with the self direction on the audition? What are some other things that we can be thinking about outside of the obvious of, you know, take a minute with the script, you know, try to set up that pre life? Are there things that we can be doing?
- [39:57]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah, I mean, you know, couple things. You brought up my app. I. Yeah, I created that app. Probably. It was 2012 when I created that. I just took it off the market two years ago because I wanted to kind of update it. And if you don't mind, like, I'm actually now making kind of a video version of it, so there'll be more. But the way that I have helped actors with this self direction thing is I have boiled commercials down. There's five basic commercial directions. That's how they write commercials. And as a voice actor, it's important to know these directions and then, you know, find your triggers to get into these each direction. And this is again what I teach. So that will streamline your audition process. Again, having said that, I do acknowledge that some casting directors and, you know, specs you might get from, from wherever could be so verbose that you're just like, what I can't tell, is this a real person? Is it a snarky person? But usually you can, you can take all that stuff and go, okay, Ryan Reynolds type. Okay, that's my rye dry snarky guy. Okay, they want a hip, swagger, Matthew McConaughey type. There's my sexy voice guy or whatever it might be. Then you sort of streamline that. And then whatever your triggers are that you have discovered along the way that work for you to get into that, you can then vocalize it. I'm not sure if I'm making this clear, but there are ways to streamline your self directing. You have to kind of understand the directions. You also have to kind of understand what your basic triggers are to get into each direction and then use that to interpret the copy. But again, this is also where acting and why acting is important.
- [41:54]
Mark Scott
Yeah.
- [41:56]
Marilyn Whisner
But also, again, as I've said earlier, I do acknowledge that most people don't come from that acting background. So things that I have worked on, kind of the tricks and hacks and techniques, they're very divisive. I get that, I acknowledge it. But they work. And this is what will help people, you know, then voice the commercial. But it's really important to put your stamp on it. Because I think the biggest mistake besides, you know, always worrying about so much about how you sound that people make is they. They don't do their own voice. They automatically get into the booth and they might be talking just like I'm talking now in regular, but once they step up to the mic, suddenly everything's right up in here and they put on their really pretty voice.
- [42:41]
Mark Scott
I feel like you're accusing me right now.
- [42:42]
Marilyn Whisner
No, no, I mean, that's what.
- [42:44]
Mark Scott
Because that's absolutely what happens to me, just to be clear. So.
- [42:47]
Marilyn Whisner
Well, I call it the lure of the microphone. There's, you know, there's nothing cooler than stepping into your booth and it's like, ah, my happy place. And there's that gorgeous mic near lighting and your every, you know, we love it. And then, you know, we put the headphones on and we love our voice. We love our things, you know, so that's the biggest mistake. Because you know what happens? You know, again, I call it putting on your pretty voice. Not that it doesn't sound great. It sounds beautiful. Everybody's pretty voice sounds good. But when you pitch up because you're physiologically, you're actually pitching up your voice. I was gonna say pinching, but it is kind of pinching. You're pitching up your voice. And when you do that like that, it actually, there is a physiological term for it, and I forgot what it is, but masks. Anything that might have been like, as you can hear, I'm doing now, anything that might have been kind of unique about your voice to begin with, but when you just leave your voice relaxed, naturally, there comes my rasp and things like that. That's what we want to hear, not the pretty pitched up voice. So again, I'm not sure if I answered your question, but I think it's really important as the voice actor to find your triggers for each of the possible directions. Keep a list in your booth. Like, okay, when they want a real person, I do a B and C. Because your A, B and C might be different than, you know, the next guy. You know, kind of get to know, like your sort of go tos that. That puts you in that place and then you can expand upon that. Oh, I know this casting. Okay, it's a real person. That's me doing a B and C. But I know this casting director. She really likes ad libs. So I'm going to throw some of those in there. Or they want me to be a rye dry, snarky guy. Okay, well, that's me doing a B and C. But also I'm going to do my best impersonation of Kevin Hart or Ryan Reynolds or whatever it might be. So there's. Every actor is going to kind of have their go tos and once you get comfortable with that, it sort of flows. It just kind of comes out. It takes getting used to. It's practice, but it does happen. And the best practice you can do. Record yourself. Record yourself doing it, like instinctively how you would do it. And then take some time, go through your triggers, you know, your A, B and C or whatever it might be, and then record yourself and compare it. You're gonna go, whoa, that's the real Mark. Or that's whoever it might be.
- [45:14]
Mark Scott
I legitimately have some sort of blockage in my brain after 20 years of radio. And I haven't been on the air in 10 years, but it's still there to the point where I will get a script and I will be sitting out in my office and I'll get the script and I'll read over the script or I'll be out on the couch or something. I'll read over the script and kind of read it and be like, yeah, okay, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do. And as soon as I go, the booth is right over my shoulder. As soon as I go in there. What the hell is that? Where did that come. That is not what we just discussed doing while we were sitting up there on the couch.
- [45:40]
Marilyn Whisner
Like, it's rip and read. You're a radio guy. Rip and read.
- [45:44]
Mark Scott
I just can't get it out of my head.
- [45:47]
Marilyn Whisner
I know I, I work with so many radio guys or former news anchors and they all have the problem. It's.
- [45:53]
Mark Scott
Yep.
- [45:54]
Marilyn Whisner
It's just. It gets in your pores. You. It's. It's a tough thing to do.
- [45:57]
Mark Scott
Some sort of psychological barrier there like.
- [46:00]
Marilyn Whisner
Mark, that you can do to. To not sound that way, you know, that really are. So.
- [46:05]
Mark Scott
Need to hide the microphone.
- [46:06]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah.
- [46:07]
Mark Scott
I need to secretly record myself while I'm sitting on the couch doing it. Because the read on the couch is always so much better than the read when I ultimately get in.
- [46:14]
Marilyn Whisner
I know, I hear you.
- [46:16]
Mark Scott
I don't want to go here because I get, I get. People get angry with me when I go here, but. But I feel like I have to go here because you're very much on the pulse of what is happening right now. Are you thinking about AI at all where you're at?
- [46:31]
Marilyn Whisner
Not really.
- [46:32]
Mark Scott
I feel like in the beginning, not in the beginning. Last year there was a bunch of high profile things. I think Coca Cola did a fully, completely AI created ad and there was a part of it that felt like it's just like shiny new object, right? Like we got to play with this and then they play with it and then it didn't work as good as they thought or it didn't land like they had hoped or you know, it upsets people because it's AI and we're already questioning the trustworthiness of every piece of digital content that exists to begin with anyway. But I was just curious at the level that you're playing at la, you know, big commercials, big brands, are they talking about it? Are they thinking about it or is it just. No, man, we, we just want people, we just want to work with.
- [47:13]
Marilyn Whisner
I, I, the only kind of like it has come up, you know, in some casting like I did do. I was casting this radio spot not too long ago, within the last year. And it was a non union radio spot. And it was a cute, like this is a client I've had for years. It was like a cute husband wife banter thing. And then there was a, it was for a car dealership. And then there was a tag at the end, you know, like Southern California Toyota dealers. And so I said to my producer, oh, you want us to cast the tag guy? And he said, he goes, oh, I was afraid you're gonna ask me that. I said, what? And he said they want us to use AI for it because the, that would be like Southern California, Northern California, Central California, you know, like all those and then the different versions. So if it had been a union spot, they couldn't have done that because then, you know, the two actors and so, so that was the first time I kind of went, but, you know, but I, the, and the only other one that I did get, I felt a punch was I do a lot of casting or did for an agency in Virginia that does a lot of like the US Coast Guard, Air Force and they used to do these really cool spots, you know, the U.S. army that would air on TV as well as like in movie theaters. Beautiful spots. And I loved working with this guy. He's great. And I've worked with him for probably 17, 18 years. And he just told me this year that they're doing, that they're doing, he's losing his job and they're doing them all AI now. And I just was like, you know, thanks. It wasn't his fault. He was, you know, so I don't know, I mean the, the power and the drama of Those kinds of spots because they're like, you know, very Top Gun and, you know, really cool. I. I don't know how that's going to play out. I haven't seen any of them. So, you know, I. I don't know if they're going to continue doing that. And hopefully he'll get his job back in some way, shape or form, and then I'll get my job back with them. But that's the only other one that I. That I'm aware of that I sort of lost to. To AI and their. Their government, their, you know, their military. So that was kind of a bummer.
- [49:23]
Mark Scott
Yeah, it's. I don't know. I've been spending a lot of time falling down the rabbit hole. I don't know. I've watched Stephen Bartlett, Diary of a CEO, his podcast, absolutely fantastic podcast.
- [49:35]
Marilyn Whisner
And. Yeah.
- [49:36]
Mark Scott
And he's gone so deep down the rabbit hole of AI Just trying to understand, you know, what is the world gonna look like in five years or whatever.
- [49:43]
Marilyn Whisner
Scares me. It does scare me. Outside of even what we do.
- [49:47]
Mark Scott
Oh, yeah.
- [49:49]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah. I think about my family, you know, things like that. You think about and just how much, like, it can infiltrate your life. That. That part of it scares me. But in the world of voiceover. Yes. I get scared, too, because am I going to have a job? Yep. Still, you know, I got.
- [50:05]
Mark Scott
I got a daughter that's graduating high school this year. And I mean, we sat down a couple weeks ago and I told her straight up. I said, I know she. My kids are technologically challenged. Like, you would not believe how technological. I don't know how they're my kids and they're that technologically challenged. But so like to say AI, like, I don't even know if she knows what I'm talking about. But we were having that conversation of, you know, when you're thinking about what you're going to go to school for, you need to be thinking about is this job that I'm going to go through to school for next year and go to college for however many years is that job even going to exist.
- [50:38]
Marilyn Whisner
On the other side, when my kids were graduating college, that. That wasn't even a conversation.
- [50:44]
Mark Scott
It's not nothing you would even think about. And now I'm like, literally sitting down and she's saying, well, I thought about this and I'm like, nope, that'll probably be AI. Well, what about this? Nope, that'll probably be a. And, like, it's terrifying and so trying to think about. So I'm just. I'M always curious. I don't know. We don't want to talk about it because we don't want to think about the reality of it. But at the same time, I want to know, you know, I want to know so that I can plan and prepare. And so it's. I mean, I feel optimistic at this point, at least at that level. It's not a part of the daily conversation, for example, where, you know, they're not. They're not there yet. And that. That makes me feel good.
- [51:20]
Marilyn Whisner
It's like, I want to know, but I don't want to know. You know, that's where I'm at.
- [51:23]
Mark Scott
And there is a comfort in being oblivious.
- [51:26]
Marilyn Whisner
Yeah, the stuff I. I have some colleagues, you know, and one of my friends was like, you have to listen to this. It's. You can't tell. It's AI. I could still tell. He couldn't, but I could, but. And then he. I have heard some. That is pretty darn good. I don't know. I think, you know, in terms of voiceover, where I first see it's really going to make an impact is things like. And I hate to say this because I have a friend that's very heavily involved in audio description, but I think that things where they don't need. And again, not to insult audio descriptors, but that's a little bit more of a bass kind of voice. You're just very calm and you're just talking, not robotic, but it's just so things that. There's not going to be a lot of emotion and stuff. It's. I think that's where it's going to start impacting. But other stuff, you know, like animation and things like that that you. Even commercials, most commercials, you need that human emotion to come through. But again, technology is fantastic. So who knows, you know? So. Thanks for depressing.
- [52:33]
Mark Scott
Well, that was depressing. Yeah, that's. Thanks. Thanks for going there.
- [52:36]
Marilyn Whisner
Thanks for having me.
- [52:37]
Mark Scott
Okay, so look, I know that you love working with voice actors, and you been working with voice actors just as long as you've been working on the. On the casting side. And obviously, the better we are, the better it is for you, the easier it is for you to do your job. So you have a lot of different offerings for voice actors, and you've done a lot of different things in the past, and I'm sure you're cooking up some stuff as well. So talk to us a little bit about what options are out there if somebody wants to have an opportunity to work with you. And Learn from you and, you know, improve themselves while we still have a chance to beat the robots.
- [53:11]
Marilyn Whisner
Thank you for, for asking. So I, like I said, I've been coaching for about 30 years, so people can always reach out to me for that. And then I also have. I started. We were the first ones that started voiceover classes, you know, back in the day, believe it or not. There weren't. I mean there were workshops once in a while or workout groups, but there weren't classes where, you know, you could meet a casting director and so on in the voiceover world. My, my ex husband is a on camera commercial casting director and they used to do them all the time. And one day he said to me, you know, I think this was like 2007. He's like, how come nobody does this in voiceover? I was like, I don't know. So I started doing them. And so we used to call it Meet the Pros and now we call it the VO Pros. And so I offer Pre Pandemic. We used to do them in person here in la. And then of course during the Pandemic I took them all on Zoom and I've been keeping them on Zoom because people all over the world now can take these, these classes. So we have events where we'll have, you know, animation casting directors or promo producers or agent nights or whatever. And so that's at our. It's called the voprose.com. and then like I said too, you know, stay tuned. I'm in the middle of working on kind of my coaching in a video form which will be on our the VO Pros platform. And I do things like, you know, I go to conferences once in a while, not that many. I pretty much have only focused on VO Atlanta and casting. And then I sometimes guest at a podcast or a workshop. I just did a workshop for a group out in New York the other day. And then I'll sometimes go around. We created a thing called the VO Road Show a few years ago and then we stopped it during the Pandemic. But I do that with my fellow coach friends like Jeff Howell teaches promos, Tom Pinto does narration, Scott Parkin improv, Bob Bergen animation and stuff. So we're kind of picking that up a little bit too. I'm around.
- [55:20]
Mark Scott
Nice.
- [55:20]
Marilyn Whisner
If you need to wanna reach, find me. It's voices, voicecasting.com.
- [55:24]
Mark Scott
Okay. We will make sure that that goes into the show notes so that you can look that up and any of the upcoming courses, VO Pro stuff. We'll put all that into the show notes as well. Marilyn, this has been fantastic. Thank you for your willingness to share and to be so open because it's tough. It's a competitive industry, but it's not even. I don't even know that competitive is the right word because it's a tough industry. It's tough trying to get into the minds of all of these people, especially when it's all so remote. Right. I've noticed that as much as I, I don't enjoy when my one agent in Toronto asked me to come in for an audition and like going to Toronto is a. It's like, you know, it's 90 minutes when traffic's great, but it's three hours when traffic's bad. And traffic is pretty much always bad. One way, one way. But, but there's a difference when you're there in the room and there's. And you, you give them a take and they say, that was good, tweak this, tweak this. And you know, they don't always do that. But there's something to be said for having a little bit of feedback when you're in that audition process and when you. Most of the time we don't have access to that and we never know what happens to our audition and we never know why we did or didn't get a job or whatever. And it can be. It's a tough industry and so it's nice to be able to peek into the brain of somebody on the casting side to say, do this, try this, think about this, come at it this way or hit it from this direction. So I just really appreciate you taking the time to share with us and I'm very grateful that you were willing to do it.
- [56:56]
Marilyn Whisner
Well, thank you for having me. And yeah, casting directors are on your side. We want you to get a booking, you know, so, so, you know, yeah, I love what I do and I love, you know, working with talent and hearing new talent and stuff. And you're right, it is much harder than it used to be for sure. But the cream does rise to the top. I really, truly believe that. So stay on top of your game, people.
- [57:23]
Mark Scott
Alright, Marilyn, thank you so much for coming on today. I appreciate it.
- [57:26]
Marilyn Whisner
Thank you, Mark. The Everyday veopreneur podcast available everywhere. Find podcasts are given away for free mostly. We think having your voiceover demos easily playable and downloadable on your website is essential. The VoiceSam player lets you do that across any device and browser. There are also options for adding play buttons in your email signature, tracking your listens, and even putting videos in your demo player. Sign up now@voicezam.com markscott and receive an instant $25 credit. For full details and to claim this offer, visit voicezam.com markscott and see. And that's a wrap. Thanks for hanging in. Thanks for hanging out. Want more? Veopreneur Goodness. Jump online@veopreneur.com.