Podcast Summary: The Alchemy of Tears with Rabbi Tirzah Firestone

Podcast: Everything Belongs: Living the Teachings of Richard Rohr Forward
Host: Center for Action and Contemplation
Date: September 5, 2025
Episode: Exploring Chapter 7, "The Alchemy of Tears" (from Richard Rohr’s The Tears of Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage) featuring Rabbi Tirzah Firestone

Episode Overview

This episode navigates the deeply transformative theme of tears, grief, and trauma as pathways to healing and wisdom—both personal and collective. Anchored in Richard Rohr’s contemplative Christian teachings and enriched by the expertise of Rabbi Tirzah Firestone, a Jungian psychotherapist and leader in Jewish trauma healing, the conversation addresses how our suffering, when consciously engaged, can be alchemized into compassion, solidarity, and practical acts of renewal in the world.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Christian Contemplative "Gift of Tears" (00:23 – 21:02)

• Universal Nature of Tears and Compassion:
  Tears are presented as a spontaneous human response to the depth of reality, evoked by beauty, suffering, fear, and awe.

  “Tears… normally come unbidden, unsought, after in the presence of the great emotions of fear, happiness, awe. Just in the presence of beauty. I see a beautiful landscape and I want to cry.” — Richard Rohr (05:29)

• Crying 'For Everything':
  Mourning one thing often expands into mourning the state of the whole world. This is a mystical, empathetic stance.

  “The mystic… sees that the human condition is such a missed opportunity… Just tears of regret of how could we not know, how could we not see…?” — Richard Rohr (03:46)

• God as the Weeping and Vulnerable Divine:
  Reframing God not as angry but as empathetic and grieving with humanity.

  “God is sad more than angry… they [the prophets] represented in their mature state the pity of God for Israel, not the anger of God.” — Richard Rohr (11:29) “What happens if I think of God as a vulnerable and a weeping God? That I’m like, oh, God was the only character in the [Job] story who sat silent and listened to Job for, like, 30 chapters.” — Drew Jackson (13:27)

• From Pathologizing to Mythologizing Pain:
  Without broader archetypes or stories, we risk only medicalizing or diagnosing our suffering.

  “If we do not mythologize our pain, all we can do is pathologize it.” — Richard Rohr (14:40)

• Ritual, Empathy, and Touch in Healing:
  Rituals provide space for tears and empathy; touch is highlighted (as in Jesus’ healings) as crucial for trauma release and embodiment.

  “It is the body itself that holds our fear, our anger, and our debilitating memory. It is the body that must somehow be held and healed and spoken to.” — Richard Rohr (21:02)

The Alchemical Process of Grief (25:13 – 35:18)

• Alchemy as Transformation:
  Drawing from Jung, suffering and loss are likened to alchemy—breaking down, dissolving, and reforming aspects of ourselves.

  “While scientifically it may not be possible to turn lead into gold, the idea that there is gold in our lead and that there’s gold in our shadow is powerful.” — Drew Jackson (25:13)

• Stages of Alchemical Change:
  Rohr describes seven alchemical processes (e.g., solutio, coagulatio, mortificatio), emphasizing transformation through inclusion of all aspects, even difficult emotions and losses.

  “Notice what is not in there is eliminatio. No elimination. Let’s use all the ingredients, even the worst enemy, as Paul says, death.” — Richard Rohr (29:17)

• Trusting the Process:
  Waiting, not forcing, and letting “the natural chemistry” of paradox and sorrows do their work in the soul leads to hope and newness.

  “We move towards wholeness… by holding these conflicts and paradoxes together in the soul more than in the mind, and just letting them work their natural chemistry… Those who trust in the process create a new future, while others just repeat the past over and over again.” — Richard Rohr (32:05)

Universal Suffering, Solidarity, and Salvation (31:44 – 35:18)

• God Suffers With All:
  Rohr identifies universal suffering as paired with universal salvation—the divine is present in and redeeming all things through shared suffering.

  “Universal suffering and universal salvation are correlative terms. It’s an essential point of the book.” — Richard Rohr (32:05)

Rabbi Tirzah Firestone: Intergenerational Trauma and Healing (36:55 – 69:48)

Seven Principles of Healing (Summarized with Emphasis from Wounds into Wisdom)

1. Face the Loss (43:53ff):

   • Confronting, not avoiding, grief and loss is essential; deferred pain becomes intergenerational trauma, affecting even our genes’ expression (epigenetics).

   “When we cry our tears, there is something very deep that happens. There is a disillusion… When we don’t metabolize our grief… it actually affects us physiologically… not only us, but also our next generation.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (39:46)

2. Harnessing the Power of Pain (46:18ff):

   • Pain is potent energy—like nuclear energy—that can fuel healing and peacemaking, not just destruction.

   “If we can just feel our pain, talk about it, use it in some way, harness it… it is not only my pain, it is the pain that humanity is suffering right now.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (47:37)

3. Finding New Community (53:10ff):

   • Healing is relational; isolation compounds trauma, but being witnessed in community is medicine.

   “We are needing to find our kin family that can help us absorb the blows in the world and to help neutralize the stresses.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (53:10)

4. Staying Human and Embracing the “Other” (56:16ff):

   • The healing imperative in Jewish and broader spiritual traditions: love the stranger, resist dehumanization and othering, and convert enemies into friends.

   “‘The true warrior is the one who converts his enemy into his friend.’” — Quoting Reuven in Wounds Into Wisdom (56:16) “We make the other objects and fear them and blame them and then dehumanize them… It is just… a default for us to other the other… resisting that call to other, like getting in there with humanity and understanding that we’re all in pain.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (57:27)

5. Disidentifying from Victimhood (61:11ff):

   • Acknowledging, but moving through victim experiences, so as not to build identity around wounds.

   “Not to let it become our identity. It’s really – it’s a continuum.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (61:11)

6. Interrogating Chosenness (63:51ff):

   • Recognizing the shadow of ‘chosenness’ in religious identity—when it becomes a wedge instead of a bridge, it obscures shared humanity and suffering.

   “Behind closed doors we are triumphalists. We believe in special election, divine election… How do we, as some people are now saying, repudiate those texts?” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (63:51)

7. Taking Healing Action (66:13ff):

   • Inner transformation must express itself as acts of justice, compassion, and repair in the world (tikkun hanefesh and tikkun olam).

   “Taking action is taking inner action and taking outer action.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (66:13) “Every act we do bears ripples… Every effort… moving toward more light and toward more compassion… makes this world better.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (68:40)

Embodied Approaches to Trauma and Grief

• "Limbic Lava":
  • A vivid term for what happens when the emotional brain (limbic system) overrides logic; the importance of soothing this “lava” so we can respond reflectively, not reactively.

  “Limbic lava… simply means that my emotional brain has been triggered… my ability to think in a linear way, in a diplomatic way… goes offline… I can’t hear the other side.” — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (50:17)

  • Techniques for “chilling” the nervous system include time in nature, pausing, contemplative practice, and self-compassion.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with timestamps)

• On the mystical empathy of tears:
  “Tears… normally come unbidden, unsought, after in the presence of the great emotions of fear, happiness, awe. Just in the presence of beauty. I see a beautiful landscape and I want to cry.”
  — Richard Rohr (05:29)

• God as companion in suffering, not punisher:
  “God is sad more than angry… they [the prophets] represented… the pity of God for Israel, not the anger of God.”
  — Richard Rohr (11:29)

• Mythologizing pain vs. pathologizing it:
  “If we do not mythologize our pain, all we can do is pathologize it.”
  — Richard Rohr (14:40)

• Universal suffering, universal salvation:
  “Universal suffering and universal salvation are correlative terms.”
  — Richard Rohr (32:05)

• On intergenerational trauma and healing:
  “When we don’t metabolize our grief… it actually affects us physiologically… not only us, but also our next generation.”
  — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (39:46)

• Transforming enemy into friend:
  "'The true warrior is the one who converts his enemy into his friend.'"
  — Reuven, as quoted by Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (56:16)

• Ritual as supportive for sorrow:
  "Ritual gave them the space, the permission to do that [to express pain and tears]."
  — Richard Rohr (09:13)

• “Limbic lava” and self-compassion:
  “When I am triggered and my limbic lava is flowing, I can't hear anything… I can't hear the other side… It's the hardest thing, to be able to neutralize that lava…”
  — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (50:17)

Practical Takeaways & Wisdom Practices

• Allow for Tears: Ritual, silence, and community create room for “the gift of tears,” which are essential for both personal and collective healing.
• Myth Matters: Frame suffering within a larger spiritual narrative to avoid getting stuck at the level of pathology or diagnosis.
• Acknowledge and Metabolize Loss: Don’t bypass or suppress grief; naming and facing it, alone and together, moves trauma towards transformation.
• Find and Build Community: Healing happens in relationships. Seek spaces where you can be witnessed, supported, and be a witness for others.
• Work with the Body: Recognize trauma’s impact on the body; practices of embodiment (gentle touch, presence, somatic awareness) are crucial.
• Stay Human and Resist Othering: Actively work against the instinct to dehumanize others or ourselves; cultivate empathy and practice loving the stranger.
• Pause and Respond vs React: When “limbic lava” (overwhelm) erupts, pause, ground, and choose a deliberate, compassionate response.

Final Blessings and Resonances

• Contemplation is Enough: Trusting the process, waiting, and holding paradox—this is the contemplative path that leads to hope and renewal.
• Personal Healing as Collective Contribution: Every act of healing, no matter how small, ripples into the fabric of the world (tikkun olam).
• Concluding Blessing:
  “Every effort… moving toward more light and toward more compassion… makes this world better.”
  — Rabbi Tirzah Firestone (68:40)

For those seeking to live the teachings forward, this episode offers an invitation: face your loss, honor your tears, metabolize trauma, root in community, and let the alchemy of compassion flow outward—changing you, and through you, the world.