Everything Everywhere Daily – "The Empire That Never Existed"

Host: Gary Arndt
Date: December 30, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Gary Arndt revisits and expands on the very first episode of Everything Everywhere Daily to explore the historical reality—and myth—of the Byzantine Empire. He explains how this monumental civilization, commonly known as the Byzantine Empire, never referred to itself by that name and was, in fact, the direct continuation of the Roman Empire in the East. The episode unpacks the evolution of the empire’s identity, the origins of the "Byzantine" label, and the implications for how we view history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing the "Byzantine Empire" Fallacy

• Despite its fame, the Byzantines themselves never called their state the Byzantine Empire.
• “That last empire, however, the Byzantines, never actually existed.” (02:10)

2. Geography and Reach of the Empire

• The empire, with its capital at Constantinople (now Istanbul), lasted over 1,000 years.
• At its height under Justinian in 555, it included the Mediterranean coast, Egypt, the Balkans, North Africa, and the Levant.
• By 1453, it had shrunk to parts of Eastern Turkey, Greece, and the Balkans.

3. Romans, Never ‘Byzantines’

• Throughout its existence, the people called themselves "Romans," not Byzantines.
• “They considered themselves Roman. The Byzantine Empire was really nothing more than the continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire after the Empire in the west fell.” (04:22)
• Direct imperial line traced back to Augustus and Julius Caesar.

4. How Did the Split Start? (Diocletian and Constantine)

• The Roman Empire became unwieldy and was split by Diocletian in 293 into East and West for easier rule (the Tetrarchy).
• Constantine I later reunited the empire and founded Constantinople ("New Rome") in 330.
• Possible starting points for the Byzantine Empire:
  • Founding of Constantinople (330)
  • Split after Theodosius’ death (395)
  • Fall of Rome in West (476)

5. The Ambiguity of Origin

• No clear, single event marks the beginning of the Byzantine Empire.
• “The reason it's so hard to pin down a starting date for the Byzantine Empire is that there was never a single event you could point to as the starting point.” (10:40)

6. The End of an Empire

• The empire ended definitively on May 29, 1453, with the fall of Constantinople and death of Constantine XI to Ottoman conquest.

7. The Label ‘Byzantine’: Origins and Adoption

• The term comes from Byzantium, the city’s original name before it was refounded as Constantinople.
• Western scholars in the 16th century, such as Hieronymus Wolff, introduced “Byzantine” to distinguish between the Western and Eastern Roman Empires.
  • “The most cited moment for the formalization of the term is in the 1557 publication of the book Corpus Historiae Byzantinae by the German historian Hieronymus Wolff...” (15:40)
• The label gained traction due to Western attitudes, particularly negative portrayals in French and English history, which had political motives.

8. Enduring Roman Identity

• “Their preferred self designation was Romai, meaning Romans, and their state was called Basilia ton Romion, meaning Empire of the Romans.” (18:07)
• The emperor’s title: Basileus ton Romaion (Emperor of the Romans)
• Greek emerged as the primary language from the 7th century, but this did not alter their Roman political identity.
• The Roman self-designation persisted among a wide variety of ethnic groups within the empire.

9. International Perspectives on the Empire

• Islamic powers called the empire the Land of the Rum (“Romans”) and continued this usage after the Ottoman conquest.
• Early Western sources sometimes acknowledged their Roman status (Imperator Romanorum), but this was contested after Charlemagne was crowned Emperor in 800.
  • Later titles: Imperium Constantinopolitanum (Empire of Constantinople) or Imperium Graecorum (Empire of the Greeks), especially post-schism and post-Crusades.

10. Legacy and Modern Perception

• Greek national identity shifted in the 19th century, but the Roman identity (“Romy”) lingered, especially among rural and island populations in Greece.
• “Modern Greeks will still sometimes use the word Romeo sini in poetic contexts to describe Greekness, showing how deeply rooted the Roman identity once was.” (26:13)
• The scholarly label “Byzantine Empire” is now universal, but understood as a convenient external construct.
• Example: The modern country name Romania uses the same designation the Byzantines used, underlining the linguistic continuity.

11. The Function of the Term “Byzantine”

• Useful in distinguishing between earlier Italian-based Rome and later Constantinople-based Rome.
• “Whenever you hear the terms Byzantium or Byzantine, you should always be thinking Rome 2.0 or Rome 2 electric boogaloo, because it wasn't an independent empire, it was just the continuation of what started in Rome.” (29:10)
  • [Memorable, humorous moment]

Notable Quotes

• Gary Arndt:
  • “That last empire, however, the Byzantines, never actually existed.” (02:10)
  • “At no point in their 1000 some odd year history did they or anyone else ever call them the Byzantines or refer to them as Byzantium. They considered themselves Roman.” (04:22)
  • “To the average person living in Italy, it was just one ruler replacing another, a pattern that had gone on for centuries.” (09:48)
  • “Humanist scholars in Western Europe... began using words derived from Byzantium in the 16th century.” (15:34)
  • “Their preferred self designation was Romai, meaning Romans, and their state was called Basilia ton Romion.” (18:07)
  • “Modern Greeks will still sometimes use the word Romeo sini in poetic contexts to describe Greekness, showing how deeply rooted the Roman identity once was.” (26:13)
  • “Whenever you hear the terms Byzantium or Byzantine, you should always be thinking Rome 2.0 or Rome 2 electric boogaloo...” (29:10)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:10 – The myth of the “Byzantine” Empire’s existence
• 04:22 – Self-identity as Romans; no such thing as Byzantium
• 07:30 – The split of the Roman Empire and its complications
• 10:40 – The uncertain origins of the Byzantine Empire
• 15:40 – When and why “Byzantine” as a term was first used
• 18:07 – Internal identity as “Romai” (Romans) and the structure of the state
• 20:20 – Foreign powers’ names for the Empire; the legacy of “Rum”
• 23:52 – Western Europe’s narrative and the impact of Charlemagne
• 26:13 – Lasting identity: “Romeo sini” and modern Greek context
• 29:10 – The modern purpose of using the term “Byzantine”

Memorable Moments

• Running Joke:
  • “Rome 2.0 or Rome 2 electric boogaloo” as a lighthearted way to remember the Byzantine Empire’s real identity. (29:10)
• Nuanced Analysis: Unpacking how Western prejudice shaped the negative connotation of “Byzantine” (cunning, overcomplicated).
• Real-Life Connection: The lingering use of “Roman” among rural Greeks and how it survived into the modern era.

Conclusion

Gary Arndt effectively demystifies a major historical misconception, showing that the so-called Byzantine Empire considered itself the enduring Roman Empire for over a millennium after Rome’s fall in the West. The term “Byzantine” is a later Western invention that, while convenient, misrepresents how the people of Constantinople saw themselves and their role as heirs of Rome. Listeners come away with a deeper appreciation of how history is labeled and a more nuanced understanding of identity, continuity, and mythmaking.