Supreme Court 2A Rulings Update

Summary

---

Everything Guns – Episode 80: Supreme Court 2A Rulings Update

Hosts: David & Jody Smith
Date: June 30, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers on two major recent U.S. Supreme Court rulings affecting Second Amendment rights (the Hermes and Wolford cases), circuit court splits on firearm hardware and suppressors, state legislative updates, self-defense case analysis from around the world, gear talk, and a review of West Virginia gun laws. The hosts, despite frequent microphone issues and their signature banter, deliver detailed discussion and personal insight, blending legal analysis with practical and tactical perspectives.

---

Supreme Court Rulings: Hermes & Wolford (02:08–06:33)

Hermes (Marijuana Use & Gun Ownership)

• Case: Questioned if a marijuana user could be criminally charged for possessing a firearm.
• Outcome: 9–0 Supreme Court decision—a narrow ruling favoring the defendant.
  • “So the government will probably still use that verbiage to charge other people with the use of drugs. But on this particular case...it was not used on him.” (Host, 02:37)
  • The hosts expect the decision’s immediate effect is limited but may eventually alter federal form 4473’s marijuana question.

Wolford (The "Vampire Rule" Case)

• Case: Focused on whether certain gun bans based on “history and tradition” hold up.
• Outcome: 6–3 in favor of the defendant.
  • The hosts critique use of history/tradition as a standard, pointing out the government’s reliance on a racist Louisiana law to support a Hawaii ban.
  • Memorable Host Commentary:
    “...if you've got laws in place and you're using that as a test, you can't just pick and choose which ones you're going to use. Apparently, that's what they did.” (Host, 05:58)

---

Other Legal Updates & News (06:34–16:13)

Circuit Splits and Supreme Court Reluctance

• Suppressors: 5th Circuit ruled suppressors are protected “arms,” splitting from 9th Circuit.
  • The hosts hope this may give the Supreme Court reason to take up suppressor cases, frustration evident:
    “I don't know why they're not taking these up.” (Host, 08:12)
• Virginia Assault Firearms Ban: Blocked until Dec 31; other VA gun laws go into effect July 1.
  • Complaint about lack of legal “standing” for gun-rights groups: “They did not have standing so they couldn't be part of the case. But...we all have standing. Apparently not.” (Host, 09:20)
• Washington Supreme Court: Upheld law stripping gun rights after two DUIs—hosts are incensed about treating the Second Amendment as a “second class right.” (10:12–11:44)

International Incident: Canada Bystander Shooting

• Host recounts a Canadian incident where a policewoman fatally shot a bystander while under stress, prompting a debate:
  • “You’ve got to be able to identify your targets and not just turn and shoot.” (Host, 13:10)
  • “If you sign up for that job, be able to perform the job...” (Co-host, 13:04)

HOAs & Local Bans

• South Carolina HOA (Forest Pines condos) bans guns from nearly all common areas:
  • “Now that’s ridiculous. You sue every person that's on that board...” (Co-host, 15:16)
  • Hosts express disdain for overreaching HOA authority.

---

Gear Chat & Range Drills (16:13–19:22)

Gear Upgrades

• Earmuff Upgrade: Host describes replacing gel pads on Walker Razor earmuffs—a $30 fix that significantly boosted comfort. (16:22–17:35)
• TA Targets: New smaller USPSA-style target with A and C zones for more focused, economical training.
• Co-host’s Fly Rod: Brief detour into fishing equipment with a Cortland Guide Series fly rod. (18:47–19:22)

---

Use of Force Case Reviews (19:22–31:55)

Australia: Home Intruder (20:04–25:53)

• 75-year-old man defended self and wife against a knife-wielding intruder, first with a kitchen knife, then with a rifle.
• Legal Nuance: In Australia, self-defense legality is decided ad hoc by police, not standardized.
• “That’s, that’s scary that they can do that.” (Host, 23:10)
• Hosts praise the homeowner’s readiness and moral justification, critique Australia’s lack of clear legal standards.

Texas: Woman vs. Ex-Boyfriend (26:01–28:48)

• Woman fended off an ex who entered home without permission; used pepper spray, then shot the assailant when that failed.
• “She had both a non-lethal and a lethal [option]...good on her.” (Host, 26:57)
• Emphasizes importance of readiness and layered self-defense options.

Brazil: Off-Duty Female Officer (29:18–31:55)

• Officer successfully repelled two armed robbers on motorcycles; controversially delivered a final shot to a downed assailant.
• “Up to that last shot it was definitely lawful. A little iffy on that last shot. If you were here.” (Host, 31:01)
• Discusses the blurred moral and legal line in life-or-death events.

---

State Spotlight: West Virginia Gun Laws (31:55–39:31)

• High Ownership Rate: Ranked 5th; 58.5% own at least one firearm.
• Constitutional Carry: Anyone 18+ may carry, with provisional licenses for 18-20 year olds.
• Private Sales: No required background checks between residents, unless seller suspects the buyer is prohibited.
• No Duty to Inform: Gun carriers don’t have to disclose to police during stops.
• Law Enforcement Immunity: WV officers not liable for refusing to enforce certain federal gun controls.
• Campus Carry: Allowed on public universities since 2025 with no major issues.
• Preemption: State law overrides local firearm restrictions.
• Reciprocity: Broad—but not universal—recognition of other states’ carry permits (notably excludes California and DC).

Key Quote:
“Sounds like West Virginia is one of our, one of our better states.” (Host, 39:06)

---

Range Drills & Skill Development (39:38–45:55)

FAST Drill Recap

• Description: Fundamentals Accuracy Speed Test—draw from concealment, two headshots, reload, four to body (A zone).
• Performance: Host achieved advanced times (under 7 seconds), details round specifics.
• Insight:
  • “Best way I was able to do it...really focus on doing a quick draw, then slowly shooting those two head shots, and then increase that speed on those last four.” (Host, 42:35)
• Discuss differences between defensive shooters and bullseye hobbyists.

Next Drill: 7 & 7 (“Three Seven” Drill)

• Format: 7 shots, 7 yards, in 7 seconds on progressively smaller targets.
• “We’ve never successfully done that drill under seven seconds...it’s just tough.” (Host, 44:56)
• New shooters vs. experienced shooters contrasted.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Supreme Court translation to real-world enforcement:
  “I don’t know how much enforcement the Supreme Court has.” (Host, 02:57)

• On using legal history for 2A tests:
  “Why not just go by the text of the Second Amendment? ...The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Just go by that.” (Host & Co-host, 07:08)

• On training and shooting:
  “It’s always interesting...you got guys that are just hobbyists and they’re just trying to shoot standing still...and you got other people...looking at it from a defensive use of firearms.” (Host, 43:16)

---

Informative Timestamps for Reference

• 02:08 — Supreme Court rulings: Hermes (marijuana case), Wolford (Hawaii vampire rule)
• 08:12 — 5th Circuit/9th Circuit split on suppressors
• 09:14 — Virginia Assault Weapons Ban update
• 10:12 — Washington’s DUI/gun rights ruling
• 11:44 — Canadian bystander shooting
• 14:45 — South Carolina HOA gun bans
• 16:22 — Gear reviews (Walker Razor earmuff pads, TA targets)
• 19:22 — Use of force cases: Australia, Texas, Brazil
• 32:06 — West Virginia gun law breakdown
• 39:38 — Fast drill performance & skill development
• 44:37 — Upcoming 7 & 7 Drill discussion

---

Final Thoughts

Despite their lighthearted ribbing and tech troubles, David and Jody deliver a comprehensive, nuanced review of emerging Second Amendment legal developments, practical gun law realities, and hands-on training. Their critical take on “history and tradition” as a legal standard and praise of states with robust gun rights round out an episode packed with detailed analysis and practical shooter insights.

Host Closing:
“Sounds like West Virginia is one of our better states.” (Host, 39:06)

Co-host’s Closing Remark:
“No, I gotta get a better microphone. That’s what I got.” (Co-host, 45:55)

---

Transcript

[Host]

We need to apologize for last week. Welcome to everything guns episode 80. Man, your microphone sucks.

[Co-host]

I swear. I swear it's awful. This, this, this episode is gonna suck because you broke the microphone.

[Host]

I didn't touch it. Mine's working fine. Hey, we need to. We need to apologize for the first episode. For the last episode anyway for the intro because you didn't edit out the. The mistake.

[Co-host]

That's on purpose.

[Host]

No, that was stupid.

[Co-host]

It was gold, baby.

[Host]

That was not gold.

[Co-host]

It was gold.

[Host]

It's gonna be better than this opening because it can't even hear you. I mean that's good. Yeah, that's good.

[Co-host]

We got for this episode. Welcome to. Did I say welcome to everything good. Welcome back to everything.

[Host]

Yeah, I said. And I said episode 80. So we'll go. I did get those little gift boxes out so everybody should be receiving those if they already haven't. So I got those sent out. Good stuff there. Hopefully going to do something in the news. Really going to focus on some Supreme Court rulings that came in. The Armani ruling and the Wolford ruling. Can talk about those. Gonna look at the. What is we talking about? I got some gear related to my Walker earmuffs and then some targets from TA Targets wanted to talk about and there's some three use of force cases. One is out of Brazil. I sent you the video. That one from the active self protection. Did you watch it? I just said I watched it. That's what I asked. I can't hear you. You got to calm down. My gosh. And then we're going to talk about West Virginia gun laws. And then we did the. I had some guys out at the range this past weekend where we shot not this past weekend, the weekend before last where we did the fast reel again. So we talked about some of my times and some of some of the results from that with some individuals that are not. Don't shoot as much as we do. So it was very interesting. Then we're going to do the next drill. We're going to do is the seven and seven drill with the four circles. So we'll talk tier one drill. Yes. Another tier one drill.

[Co-host]

I can't do that.

[Host]

Oh that. They barely could. They.

[Co-host]

They.

[Host]

It was an hour long video and they just both shot it like once clean. So that's a tough drill. We've tried that before and I don't think I've ever. I've never shot that drill clean. So with that let's just jump into some news. This first One is the US vs Hermione case, this was the marijuana usage case where the guy was charged with a separate crime for some of his other crimes for being marijuana user and having a firearm. So that went to the Supreme Court and It was a 9 to 0 decision, pretty limited decision it looks like. So the government will probably still use that verbiage to charge other people with the use of drugs. But on this particular case he was, it was not used on him. So good decision I thought. I think we all knew that's way it should come out based on how the hearings had gone and the questions the Supreme Court justices asked. But I said it's still going to be seems what very limited. Now I'd be curious to see if the 4473 changes. I don't know if they're going to. You would think it would have to with that ruling. The way the question asks about an unlawful user of marijuana. Well now according to Supreme Court that doesn't prohibit you from owning a firearm. So it'd be interesting to see if that gets updated and how soon that happens. I bet not soon because I don't know how much enforcement the Supreme Court has. What are you doing? What are you doing? Over Mosquito bite on my leg. But anyway, so that's kind of what we thought would happen with that one and then the other one out of Hawaii, the so called vampire rule, the Wolford case where that one was a 6 to 3 decision in favor of the defendant. So the government didn't fail in proving their case. And it really hinged on a lot of the history and traditions and so did so did Hermione. And I know we've been critical of that from Bruin as that being the test for determining whether or not a second amendment law is constitutional or not. And I'm going to be critical of it again on this one because there was like I said a 6:3 decision in favor of the defendant. But the, the one of the dissents was from Kentanji Brown. I can't remember if that's the way you pronounce her name and you know, not a big fan of her. I don't think she's one of our better Supreme Court justices. But in this case and there's been a lot of pro gun people really, really attack her on her descent and saying that she shouldn't even be on the court based off this dissent. But her dissent was based off the government used a Louisiana law as one of their laws for the history and tradition to kind of in favor of the vampire rule for Hawaii and that law was basically put in place to. To keep freed slaves from possessing firearms. So it was a very racist law. Her argument was just because his racist. It was not deemed unconstitutional because it was used in a racist way. Didn't make the law unconstitutional. Before you could just disavow that law from the Supreme Court ruling, you would have to first make that law unconstitutional, and then you could. Then you didn't have to use it. But since it was in place, then it should have been used as part of your argument from the history and tradition. And I don't have a. I'm with her on that one. I mean, if you've got laws in place and you're using that as a test, you can't just pick and choose which ones you're going to use. Apparently that's what they did. Man. Your microphone. Is it even working? This might be. This might be one of our best podcasts. I don't think anybody's going to hear you. I think you're just picking up off my microphone when you come sit next. David, come over here and sit next to me. That's horrible. You need to buy. Is everything hurting? We don't have another wire, do we? That's awful. That's awful. I don't think it's working. We need to. We need to check switch wires and see if there. See if it's a wire. Well, we should. We should have been doing some troubleshooting more. Now nobody can hear what you're saying, so that's fine.

[Co-host]

Whatever.

[Host]

Okay. Well, I don't know. I think we're in the middle, but that's. To me, that's the problem with using history and tradition test is you've got some of these laws that are in place that are not going to be. That are put in place for particular reasons that they shouldn't have been used for. So why not just go by the text of the Second Amendment? Use that as your.

[Co-host]

As your.

[Host]

Yeah, that'd be the best thing to do.

[Co-host]

Like. You can't hear me, man. My gosh.

[Host]

Yes, you are correct. Use the statement at the very end. What is the statement at the very end?

[Co-host]

Shall not be.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Just go by that. That's all you go by. Then we can get rid of these unconscious laws. You can say, well, if it infringes on your right to bear arms and you can get rid of the unconstitutional laws, then your argument is going to be what is constitutes arms. And that's that's where the argument should be at. My volume's low and it sounds like

[Co-host]

I'm in a barrel.

[Host]

It's not low. Your volume's up high. It's just you're low now.

[Co-host]

The volume for my microphone is low.

[Host]

Well, I think there's something wrong with your microphone. But anyway, we don't have. No, no, no. We had two more. Jake took those to. To use it they the other place. So those are the two Supreme Court rulings. Some others that didn't get heard and we didn't get any, any assault weapon ban cases heard. And I don't think they're still not going to be up for the next session. We didn't get any hardware cases heard and, and they're not coming up, I don't think in the next session. So there's still a lot of things out there that should have come up. I mean they use the, the, the idea if it's a split in the circuit courts, then they'll take up a case. But that's apparently not true because there's some splits on some of the hardware cases and that hasn't come up. So we'll talk about the split here in a minute as well between the 5th Circuit and the 9th Circuit. So hopefully that'll be what we'll talk about now. So the fifth Circuit, idiot. The fifth Circuit just came out the ruling that suppresses are protected arms, which is a direct split with the 9th Circuit. So now you would think the Supreme Court would have a more reasoning to take up the release the suppressor cases. So. And you see the same with some of those hardware cases. I don't know why they're not taking these up. So it'll be interesting to see what happens with their. We got Virginia assault firearms ban has been blocked until December 31st and that's a statewide block. They've got some other. A lot of their other laws that they had in place is going into effect on July 1st, so just a couple days away from now. But that one has been blocked until December 31st. And one thing that irritates me on that. So some of your gun rights organizations like GOA and some of the others did not was deemed. They did not have standing so they couldn't be part of the case. But the guy, one of the people that standing we all have standing. Apparently not. They didn't have standing because they. I hate that where you got. You have to prove standing to take the. To be included in that. But it did. It did go statewide in Virginia.

[Co-host]

Then I Got stained.

[Host]

I agree. I'm just telling you. That's what they were said they told the guy that took up there was the defendant in the case. He was deemed to have standing. And he's an individual, so he was shown to have standing. So that's how the Supreme Court was able to. Or not the Supreme Court. The fifth. Which one? The. I guess it was the Virginia Supreme Court that blocked it or this circuit

[Co-host]

edit out a lot of your pauses in this video.

[Host]

Well, we can't hear you, so I don't guess there's gonna be a lot of pauses. My God.

[Co-host]

Remember by. I'm watching. It's low.

[Host]

I know it's low. I can't hardly even hear you. So we got. The Washington Supreme Court upheld a law next episode. I'm doing just good. Good news as I'm gonna do next episode. Just keep that in mind. It's all gonna be good news. So that. That should last about five seconds. But Washington. Washington Supreme Court upheld a law stripping gun rights after two DUI.

[Co-host]

What.

[Host]

What did normal for me five seconds. Oh, you're an idiot. Stripping gun rights after two. Two DUI. So if you get two DUIs number. I don't know how they're doing this unless they're considering if they. If it's a felony. I think if you have a felony or a misdemeanor that has the potential jail time over one year, you can lose your gun rights. I don't know. You don't lose any other rights from. From that. But. But they're. They upheld that as that law stripping gun rights after two DUIs. You know, do you lose any other rights if you get to DUIs? Do you lose your freedom of speech, your Fourth Amendment, your Fifth Amendment, your. That's the only amendments. I know. I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. But anyway, I get irritated with that. Second amendment is always a second class right. It seems like what these buttons do on this thing? Which one? Which ones? You do these. Those are mute buttons. Those switch channels. Oh, we're gonna do this now. We're gonna troubleshoot your microphone now. Which we should have done before we started. Do what?

[Co-host]

No.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Co-host]

Awful. Sounds awful.

[Host]

Yeah. It's not gonna say good. This. This episode probably won't even get posted. And we got. Let's see. Which one did I just skip? Oh, the cop that shot the bystander in Canada. Yeah. Yeah. So here you've got a ma.

[Co-host]

A guy.

[Host]

It looked like he was targeting police officers. And I'm not sure if it was just a mass shooting and police was coming in to the line of fire, but he did shoot one police officer who looked like he was hurt pretty bad. He was bleeding out. Okay, so he did die. Yeah, that's right. Because of him and the bystander. And so you had the lady cop. She got hunkered down behind some. She was taking cover.

[Co-host]

She was.

[Host]

She was getting behind some coverage, but not really trying to find the source of the.

[Co-host]

Her partner was shot.

[Host]

Partner shot laying there. She was buying cover. Kind of. Yeah. She was hiding. You got a civilian who was coming up around, trying to get out of the line of fire and came up beside her, and she immediately turned and just basically shot him right in the face. Yep. Killed him dead. Killed him dead. And, you know, just look at this. I had. There was a lot of comments on my. Well, he shouldn't have been running up to her. She was in the middle of a run. But he had nowhere else to go. He was trying to get away from the gunfire as well. She was. She's got to be able to identify. I get it.

[Co-host]

Stressful. But they sign up to be in a stressful job. So if you sign up for that job, be able to perform the job,

[Host]

you got to be able to identify your targets and not just turn and shoot.

[Co-host]

It's like I'm standing over across the room.

[Host]

Yeah, I wish he was even me dropping his pants louder than you, talking. That's louder than you. But, you know, if. I think she would have shot her own mama at that point, the way she had no clue who she was shooting. Whoever walked up on her at that point was going to get shot. So it's terrible. You've got to. We would have been held accountable for that. So I think she should be held accountable for that as well. It's awful that someone innocent lost their lives over this whole ordeal, but it goes. They were outgunned. They had no. No way to outgun the guy that had. The guy had a rifle. I don't know what kind of rifle, but they were using handguns, which they weren't using because they were hiding behind cover. So bad situation all around. All around. Hated, for the instance of Ian's life, hate it for her because she's killed a guy that shouldn't have been killed. So it's all just. All terrible. But it just shows you when you hear. Only this type of stuff happens in the United States. Well, no, it happens everywhere. And you're seeing it more and more often with these other countries and things like that. So we've got another HOA that's going to ban guns this time out of South Carolina. So you've got. They're basically banning guns from sidewalks and parking areas and community mail kiosk. This is out of the four Forest Pines condos in Harry County. Bandage from pools and pool decks, clubhouse and restrooms, and all other HOA maintained outdoor spaces.

[Co-host]

Now that's ridiculous. Yeah.

[Host]

Email goes on to say that residents may lawfully possess firearms inside their private residence. Yeah. Isn't it though? And may even this. And may even transport their firearms to and from their vehicles as long as. As it is not displayed, handled or carried through the common areas more than what is reasonably necessary. Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's no way. There's no way I'd even even think of abiding right now.

[Co-host]

If you're living there, then all you're, all you can do is sue every one of them. Yeah, you sue every person that's on that board and you sue the, the head of the. And you. And you see the hoa, including the board members. That's the only thing you can do to get away from that.

[Host]

It's just ridiculous that they think they have that. Man, you give anybody a little bit of power. Oh my gosh, these people are awful. A jo. A's killed me. But just anyway, a little bit of power. They think they can do whatever they want to regardless of what state law and everything else says. So be interesting to see how that, how that falls. What you messing with my volume for?

[Co-host]

Was that you? I thought I was on number two.

[Host]

Oh, that's right. You are on number two and you get a lot of background feed.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I know, but I'm trying to

[Host]

get it so people don't have to.

[Co-host]

Yeah, that's there.

[Host]

Let's do that. We better have the static than the

[Co-host]

volume up and down the whole time.

[Host]

Well, that's all the. That's all the news I had. You got anything else for news wise?

[Co-host]

I think I brought enough.

[Host]

Yeah, I think so. I think you brought more than you normally do. So this day I got a couple gear and not really reviews, just kind of thing. So I, I bought some.

[Co-host]

I got some gear.

[Host]

I brought some new upgraded gel pads for my Walker Razor earmuffs. They were, you know, 30 bucks or so off Amazon, man. It makes a huge difference on those earmuffs. I bought some probably a couple years ago those started cracking and some of the gel started coming out. So just replaced them, got them in about a couple days. Yeah, these are pro here. Upgraded gel pads. They got a little seal on well on the bottom so they completely fit the earmuffs. No problem taking the old ones off, popping these back on. Much more comfortable than what I had. Yeah, nice, nice thing. And then I also was going through and found some new targets that we might, I might order some for their range. And these are from TA Targets. So we typically use the USPSA style target or the IPSIC style target. Now when we shoot they're just cardboard targets that we use out at the range and they've got the A, C and D zones on them. This, this target from TA Targets. It's just a cut down version of the USPSA target. Just as with just the A zone in the C zone. So it's a much smaller target so it's not as expensive. Where you gonna hit A and C like I always do you, you're just going to miss the target. So we're just not going to have holes in targets when you shoot. So that's not a problem. And then on the side, on one side is just the A zone in the C zone and on the other side they've got a variety of circles and diamonds that you can use to. So I showed you a picture of it. It's pretty nice. Look up TA Targets and upgraded kind of a USPSA style target with just the season. So they're, they've got I think a pack of 50 for like 45 bucks or so. What did I put on there? I thought I had the price wrote down.

[Co-host]

Good job.

[Host]

I could have swore I wrote the price down. I don't know where I wrote it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, well we talk about my gear.

[Host]

Yeah, that was pretty good though. It's, it's a little bit cheaper than the regular size USPSA targets at being. Right. I mean we shouldn't be hitting D zones anyway. So that's the thing. So I'm looking forward to getting some of those in and trying those out. But it's going to be a few weeks before we do any shooting because we're going to be doing a lot of work at the cabin in the range trying to get things situated for the. For the fall.

[Co-host]

The fall of what?

[Host]

Fall of mankind.

[Co-host]

I bought a new fly rod.

[Host]

Oh gosh. Is that the gear you want to talk about?

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

No, we're not talking about flower.

[Co-host]

Well, I mean it was. I'm fine, whatever.

[Host]

No, go ahead. Let's hear about your fly rod.

[Co-host]

Is I just bought a Cortland guide series as A spare rod. It's a pretty nice ride. Not bad price. I mean cheap price. Pretty decent rod though. Five weight, nine foot long. Good. Real seat on it. I like the real seat.

[Host]

No, I'm listening. I don't have anything to comment on it. I don't know if it's any good or not. I had no clue. It's decent.

[Co-host]

I mean it's not a high price driver. It's all right. No give them orders but it's pretty dang good.

[Host]

Good for you. Hey, we got that. We got a trip coming up pretty soon. We're gonna smokies and decent fishing and we'll get a look at. I got that map. I'm gonna have to pick us out a camping spot. I can take more trailer camper with us. All right, well that's all the you had. So let's move on to some use of force stuff. This segment brought to you by Clear Creek Shooting. For all your firearm needs check out clearcreekshooting33.com if you can't find something you like, shoot me an email and we'll get you something. I can find you a good price. This first case is out of Australia sent to us by our good friend Dave. So let me pull that case up and just read it from what he sent us. Dave, do you have it available?

[Co-host]

Really?

[Host]

Do you have it? No, I sent it to you so you should have it.

[Co-host]

Yeah, I usually delete your emails.

[Host]

All right, so this is out of. I need to go to that link. Okay. This is out of New South Wales, the same state as the Bondi terrorist attack and the new home of the Australia's tightest gun control. So this location was low population farming. Most people can't even see the house next door and several miles from a police station. So you have a 34 year old man entered the home of a couple in their 70s after 1am attacking both with a knife. And you hear a lot of that static from your mirrors. By the way the 75 year old man. No, same. The 75 year old man was able to get a kitchen knife. Don't turn mine off you idiot.

[Co-host]

I don't think I touched hers.

[Host]

You did make me lose my place. The 75 year old man was able to get a kitchen knife and wound the attacker who then retreated outside while calling 000 which is the 911 there in Australia. That makes more sense. Why, why wouldn't we use 000? Would that be easier than doing 91 1? But anyway the. Well I guess what we'll do. We'll talk about the history of 911 in Winnebar where that came from. The homeowner also retrieved his rifle in a case in case the intruder came back in the house. Not to be outdone by the old man, they would be thief did come back inside the home and was shot once in the chest. So that was dumb. So the Dave looked for some facts but it was kind of hard to find. He does not believe that the 75 year has been charged as of yet. He has indeed been praised by police for his actions. He was and still is a licensed firearms owner. Both victims and the attacker are recovering in the hospital. So he didn't kill the guy, just shot him. The attacker has been charged on two counts with more expected. So first off there there are with a few laws in a no constitutional carry gun rights country. Let's talk about you know, readiness. So you got. I'm sure they had to keep these things stored in a certain way. So he had to give a knife first. So from a readiness standpoint, you know at least he had a firearm available to. So I give him you know credit on that. And I think it's much easier to own a rifle in Australia than it is a handgun. So good job on his part of having one available and able to get to it and protect both himself and his and his wife. Moral morality of it, you know. Well, yeah, you got to protect yourself in your home. So are you going to chime in or you just going to stand over there?

[Co-host]

Well, you can't hear me when I chime in, so I don't know. No, I'm agreeing with you.

[Host]

Yeah and Dave agrees. I mean like, like Dave said, everyone on this earth has a right to protect themselves and maybe even a duty to protect loved ones. So not going to argue that with him at all. I agree 100% with that.

[Co-host]

Legal.

[Host]

This is where the legality of it is a little different than what we have here. So here Castle doctrine is pretty much in I think in every state there might be one state, I think that you have a duty to retreat in your home. But for, but every other state you have a right to protect yourself in your home and you and it is considered an imminent threat if somebody breaks into your home. So here it would be considered legal. But according to Dave, no, not in Australia. However, state police, they do not have county police there have the power to decide in every case about charges for self defense. They must decide if the type of force used was acceptable or excessive. So hopefully they get this one, it looks like they got this one right. But that's crazy that there's no standard that they go by that they can just make a decision based off of what they think instead of a standard like we have. And then some of ours are used against us as well. But that's, that's, that's scary that they can do that. Accurate one shot to the chest and he didn't shoot anymore. So yeah, very accurate. So when you look at our effective and effective. It stopped the threat. So suitable firearm and caliber.

[Co-host]

Yes.

[Host]

You know, but a handgun would have given a little bit faster target acquisition inside the home. So don't know how hard it. I think it's like Davis told us before, a little bit more difficult to own some handguns. It is rifles based off the Australian laws. But I think for the most part, good job on his part. Let's talk about some other things that could have been in place. And I'll start off with what Dave analysis was home security, security screens and a good dog might have given enough warning time to get the rifle without having to get injured with a man with a knife. So I agree with that. Also a handgun close by would have been better. But almost it says also a handgun under the pillow. Except almost all accidental shootings in Australia are kids finding grandpa's gun. So I'm, I'm in agreement with Dave on this case. All his, his findings I think I agree with. It's odd that they don't have any kind of self defense, especially in the home. So standards that they can kind of decide on the, on a whim whether or not it's legal or not. So that's, that's definitely scary. Would not be surprised if we have states go that direction because we're moving that direction. Some states already. So interesting case. Appreciate it again from Dave for sending that to us.

[Co-host]

What you got next?

[Host]

So this next one. Oh, see I got this in my iPad. Hold on, let me find it.

[Co-host]

Let me. Oh, now I already got to edit enough of this thing.

[Host]

This is at Fort Worth. So we got a armed woman shoots an ex boyfriend. So you got an ex boyfriend who entered her home without permission and attacked her. Initially defended herself with pepper spray, but that failed. She then drew a firearm and opened fire, striking the man three times. So let's talk about this as a. From a use of force standpoint.

[Co-host]

So how did he get in?

[Host]

He entered the home without permission.

[Co-host]

Okay. But we don't know if he kicked the door in or just open the door, unlock Door. We don't know.

[Host]

He entered the home without permission.

[Co-host]

We don't know for sure.

[Host]

Yeah. I mean, it could have been the door was unlocked and he just walked in. Kind of what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah.

[Co-host]

Readiness.

[Host]

Readiness. I mean, so she had both a

[Co-host]

non lethal and a lethal owner. Non lethal first didn't work. Went to the lethal and good on her.

[Host]

Good on her part. I don't think she had to do. She didn't have to, but she did.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

And that's the, that's the worry of just having non lethal. Because if it doesn't work. Yeah. And you know, I will say it could have been detrimental if she had non lethal on her and went straight to the gun. From a, from a legal standpoint. And if she went to court, shouldn't it be. It shouldn't be, but it could have been.

[Co-host]

Also with pepper spray, it could have. Could have affected her as well. So there's always that chance that you pepper spray somebody, you're getting some of it in on you and your face.

[Host]

Yeah. So readiness. Give her an A plus already in this. I mean.

[Co-host]

Oh, we're grading it, huh?

[Host]

Yeah, I graded this one. Because you think if she's in her home, it. She had both pepper spray and a firearm on her. I mean, that's, that's, that's first off. It tells me that she was worried about this guy.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

But she was definitely ready for it.

[Co-host]

How many shots did she take?

[Host]

It said it didn't say how many shots. It said she struck the man, striking the man three times.

[Co-host]

So most likely pretty accurate.

[Host]

Yeah. I imagine it was probably a pretty close distance. But she was effective. It didn't say it stopped the threat, though. It did stop.

[Co-host]

So it's effective.

[Host]

Effective and definitely moral. She's got to protect herself.

[Co-host]

Yes. So, yeah. And any.

[Host]

When you look at it from the, from the legal side of it, eminence, you've got somebody coming into your home, you've got proportionality, you know, he's attacking her. She tried a less lethal use of force begin with. But you got, you don't. From a legal standpoint in your home, proportionality kind of goes out the window. You can use lethal force when they break into your home because you can assume that they're great. Bodily harm and injury, it could occur. You get. Yeah, we got all that. Yeah, yeah, we got it.

[Co-host]

We got it. So the only thing I see, you know, thinking of other options. The only thing I can think of is just fortify your house. I mean, talk about that. So I don't know.

[Host]

Yeah, let's say if he did just open the door, walk in. You got to keep that door locked, especially if you're. If you're worried about it.

[Co-host]

If you kicked it in, maybe get something to y. Help prevent that.

[Host]

Yep. Yeah.

[Co-host]

So. Yeah. Okay. What else? What else? I mean, I think it's a good, good shoot.

[Host]

You. You sound like you're in a rush.

[Co-host]

No, this microphone sucks, man. It's bugging me.

[Host]

Just calm down. This next one is out of Brazil. This is when I sent you from active self protection. This is a female off duty cop. Did you watch this one? You said you did.

[Co-host]

So you got.

[Host]

This thing's common in some of these other countries where you got people on motorcycles come up to rob people. So you had two guys on motorcycles pull up on her. I don't know where she was. Outside of an apartment complex or outside of. They attempted to rob her, wanting her phone and her ATM code or some. Or something. They wanted other things from her. So when she started to reach, she drew her gun and started shooting. And boy, she was. She was quick.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

She shot the first guy on her left. He went down. She shot the guy on her right. He went down. She shot the gun her right again. He was still down. She walked around to the front of him and shot the gun right. One more time in the head. So that's kind of what I wanted to talk about. And it's really. That last shot, if it was done here, do we think it would have been legal? I would argue that she felt that he was still reaching for something when she made. Made that final shot. At least that's what I would say if I was her. I would absolutely say that because it was. You know, all this occurred in probably five or six seconds.

[Co-host]

You know, I was on that website. They brought up the movie Collateral Damage and said it was like that when the guys. Oh, yeah. Tried to take his briefcase. Yeah, yeah, that's basically what it was. They went down quick and she kept shooting them until they quit moving.

[Host]

Good job on her part from. From protecting herself.

[Co-host]

I don't know about her situational awareness. She was. But it's.

[Host]

She was. She was ready, though. She was ready. She was effective. It was moral.

[Co-host]

Accurate. Effective.

[Host]

The.

[Co-host]

I think moral, you know, lawful. I don't know.

[Host]

I think up to that. Up to that last shot, it was definitely lawful. A little iffy on that last shot. If you were here. Yeah.

[Co-host]

I'm not sure what other options he has other than just be a little more aware of your surroundings and just give them.

[Host]

Other than to give them what they want and just pray they don't kill you?

[Co-host]

No, I get shot.

[Host]

No, I agree.

[Co-host]

Yeah. You know, and you can give them what they want and still get shot. So I, I, I don't know if that's a good option.

[Host]

I didn't say it was a good option. I just said it was another option.

[Co-host]

It is another option. You're correct. Calm down.

[Host]

I am calm. Anyway, that's the three use of force cases. Yeah. I thought they were all three good uses for. So even that one, that last shot maybe a little bit iffy. I don't know Brazilian laws, so it might not be iffy there. Oh, did you? I didn't hear you say that. So, yeah, I don't, I'm surprised. Yeah. I can't hear anything. I don't think anybody's gonna hear anything you say all episode. It's gonna be our best episode.

[Co-host]

It could be.

[Host]

That's all I have for use of force. You want to move on into some West Virginia stuff.

[Co-host]

It's gonna be a quick episode, isn't it?

[Host]

Is it 30 minutes into this. All right. It's because you can't. You ain't said nothing.

[Co-host]

Well, I know because nobody hear me so well.

[Host]

So we're doing West Virginia today. So before you jump into it, do that every time we're. West Virginia is ranked fifth in gun ownership, so he's even ahead of Alabama. So good job on their part. 58.5% people in West Virginia have at least one firearm and you can back bypass the next chick with their concealed handgun license, but you can can't bypass it with their provisional concealed carry. And that provisional concealed carry allows 18 to 20 year olds to carry a firearm even though they are a constitutional carry state. This allows 18 to 20 year olds to carry, but you can't with a license.

[Co-host]

Yeah, they can carry that license. It's constitutional carry.

[Host]

Yeah, but you can't bypass the next Nick's chick.

[Co-host]

So it is a constitutional carry state allowing anyone 18 or older who is legally permitted to possess a firearm to carry the handgun openly or concealed without a permit. Then you have a. Do you have that provisional license for 18 to 20 years old? Let's see, what do we got here? Let me get into this. My Sirius trying to talk to me. Hold on. A bunch of prohibited locations. The normal schools, federal facilities, facilities, state capital complex courthouses, private property owners and businesses can restrict weapons. While no weapon signs generally do not carry the force of law, you must Leave the premises advice. So it's like everywhere else.

[Host]

Yeah. If they tell you to leave, they can get you for trespassing. If you don't.

[Co-host]

For private sales, background checks are not legally required for private farm sales between residents, provided the seller has no reason to believe the buyer is perhaps prohibited from owning a gun. So just like. No. No duty to inform law enforcement. There is a.

[Host]

What if they ask?

[Co-host]

No, you don't have to. Oh, nice.

[Host]

I like that. Shouldn't have to because he's gonna freak out.

[Co-host]

Calm down. I had that here. Let's see. Double check that.

[Host]

Oh, my gosh.

[Co-host]

No, no. I don't say anything about it, even if they ask. So there's a law enforcement immunity. West Virginia. And this. What it says about that. West Virginia enacted a law enforcement immunity statute in 2021, codified at West Virginia code 6107B10, which limits state and local law enforcement cooperation with federal enforcement of firearm regulations deemed to infringe on second amendment rights. So I thought that was good.

[Host]

Yeah. So if local law enforcement don't. Do not enforce something they can't be liable for federal.

[Co-host]

Yeah.

[Host]

Gotcha.

[Co-host]

Yep.

[Host]

Nice.

[Co-host]

Right, now you have all this. The Campus Self Defense act, which allowed carry on public university campuses, completed its first full year of LIM implementation in 2025 with no major regulatory roadblocks. Civil immunity is available if you use your force. If you use. If your use of force is found justifiable under the law protecting your you from lawsuits brought by the attacker or their family.

[Host]

Nice.

[Co-host]

There is no assault ban. There are no red flag laws. You can carry in state parks. And force. Let's see what else I got on here. The. There is a requirement when you get your. If you want to go ahead and get a concealed care license, there is a requirement for training. I mean, it's not a lot, but there's a. There is a training requirement.

[Host]

Does that affect the reciprocity?

[Co-host]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know if it affects reciprocity. It does have. There is preemption. Let's see. Yeah, I'm not sure about how that affects. It does affect, you know, obviously getting your license.

[Host]

Well, I think one way to look at that is. Look to see if Alabama's carry license is. It can be used in West Virginia.

[Co-host]

You can. You can carry.

[Host]

Well, then it doesn't affect reciprocity.

[Co-host]

Hey, calm down. I understand. Relax, man.

[Host]

We just figured that out.

[Co-host]

Give me a stay, will you?

[Host]

I just gave you one.

[Co-host]

If you live in Alabama, you can carry West Virginia.

[Host]

That's what I. Okay, then if you live in North

[Co-host]

Carolina, you can carry.

[Host]

We have no training requirements in Alabama, so I'm saying even though they have in West Virginia, then we're not New Mexico.

[Co-host]

They don't have. They accept. I think I read the fade. New Mexico does not accept. Accept West Virginia's conservatory license, but West Virginia still accepts New Mexico, by the way.

[Host]

Okay, who does West Virginia not accept? Sound like they accept? Everybody's.

[Co-host]

I don't know about that.

[Host]

That would have been a good piece of information to have when you were doing the research.

[Co-host]

If you're out of Louisiana, you can carry in West Virginia, you're from Kentucky, you can carry. If you're from Kansas, you can carry. If you're from Iowa, you can carry there. You give me another. Idaho, you can carry there. How about.

[Host]

Tell me when you can't. What about California?

[Co-host]

Columbia? You cannot.

[Host]

What about California?

[Co-host]

From California, you cannot.

[Host]

All right, so they. On some states that they don't have reciprocity, where they don't give it to some of those states, but some they do. All right, move on.

[Co-host]

You cannot.

[Host]

All right, move on. Move on.

[Co-host]

Well, I'm just telling you, I want to know. I'm giving you the. What else you want to know about West Virginia?

[Host]

Is that it?

[Co-host]

But I'm going through a lot of stuff here. There's no assault weapon ban.

[Host]

What about parking areas and employee parking lots? Well, you just. Yeah, you know, I'm asking questions and you're not gonna have the answer to them.

[Co-host]

Oh, yeah, hold on.

[Host]

Oh, yeah, I can look it up myself. Well, my gosh, why don't we just start telling people. Hey, we're going to be silent for about 15 seconds once y' all look up the laws for the state that we're doing.

[Co-host]

Here we go. No person charged with the care, custody and control of real property may prohibit any customer, employee, or invitee from possessing any legally owned firearm when the firearms lawfully possessed out of view, locked inside, or. Or to a motor vehicle in a parking lot when the customer, employee, or invitee is lawfully allowed to be present in that area.

[Host]

Nice.

[Co-host]

Okay, there you go.

[Host]

Similar to what we have here in Alabama. Nice. Good. Good to know.

[Co-host]

So where's roadside risk areas? The hotel thing always kills me. They don't. None of them really specifically address that in hotels. I'm carrying in hotel. I don't care. You can carry in your vehicle without a license for persons at least 21 years old, 18 years old for members of the United States Armed Force. Armed forces. Reserve or National Guard and legally entitled to have a farm under state and federal law. Now I think now with that provisional license,

[Host]

isn't there some counties in Virginia that I want to be that want to move to West Virginia? Isn't that what I heard?

[Co-host]

I wouldn't doubt it. I would if I was there.

[Host]

I would too.

[Co-host]

Well, good.

[Host]

Sounds like. Sound like West Virginia is one of our, one of our better states.

[Co-host]

So. Good.

[Host]

Good job on their part. Not bad.

[Co-host]

Good to know.

[Host]

It looks like you could drive from here where we're at up to West Virginia without going through any states. That would be a problem. So that's always good to know as well. If you're going to stay in Virginia, you might want to get a hotel in West Virginia. You want to carry?

[Co-host]

All right, well good.

[Host]

You got anything else?

[Co-host]

So yeah, now I think as of 2026, you might legally carry a load if opener concealed in your vehicle without a permit.

[Host]

Oh, nice. You should be if it's constitutional. Curious date. That's what I just say. Oh good. Let's move on to the more talk about that fast drill though. What did fast stand for? Fundamentals Accuracy Speed Test. So this is the drill where you, you draw from concealment. You put two to the a a box or a little headshot and then you put go to slide lock. Then you put forward to the body and a zone on the body of a USPSA targets what we were using. So I ran it a few more times. Very happy the way I ran it. So I had a couple, couple runs with my concealed carry gun under the 7 seconds which under under 10 seconds was intermediate. Under 7 seconds was advanced advanced and under 5 seconds was what expert. And so under 7 was advanced. So I shot several times with my concealed carry under the 7 seconds. I had a 652 clean run at a 582 with my concealed carry. But it was one of my headshots were just a bit low so had to add a second to that. So it's a 682.

[Co-host]

That's not a 582.

[Host]

So even with the one second, what was my time?

[Co-host]

Do you remember?

[Host]

6.36-9936.

[Co-host]

No. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.

[Host]

And slower than my 582. I remember that. No, no, six three something is slower than 582.

[Co-host]

You didn't shoot it clean.

[Host]

You don't get to count it.

[Co-host]

Hey, I can just shoot six shots in the air pretty quick. I still, I don't get to count.

[Host]

And then I did. Then I also went Ahead and shot it with competition gun from a. From outside waistband holster. And I did that in a five two, two. So I do believe I could definitely get that under five seconds because I just shot it a couple times and did a 5, 2, 2 with that gun. So we did have a couple other people out in the range with me that day. And one of the guys there, he was never able to shoot it clean. He was having. He was able to get a couple times under the 10 seconds but no clean shots. And then I had one other individual, he didn't shoot it on a timer, but he was running the drill. And I have his little difficulty with the headshots. So it is a. It's a tough drill. You know, the best way I was able to do it and get quicker with it is really focus on doing a quick draw and then. Yeah, slowly shooting those two head shots and then increase that speed on those last four. So you've got to have some, some split times and below and a good mag change. Yeah, do a very quick draw and slow it down on that headshot. You know, one of the guys who was shot shot it. He did a. A draw and just fired off two quick rounds on the headshot and didn't hit either headshot. You know, once I slowed him down, he's able to get it, but he wasn't.

[Co-host]

It's a fun drill though. I like that drill a lot. It works a lot.

[Host]

I did notice a lot on the gas.

[Co-host]

That's what it does. It works your fundamentals, it works your accuracy and it works your speed.

[Host]

Yeah, that's neat. That's how weird I does that. I did notice the guys that weren't typically shooters like we are, where they're shooting a lot of rounds during the year, would pull those second shots way low. So they had to shoot that first shot and really fight that recoil and pull those guns way down, you know. You know, it was interesting. So I had, I had three guys that came out to shoot. So and it was a difference with four guys, four guys came out to shoot. So two of them were

[Co-host]

more on

[Host]

the defensive type of shooting. And then you had two guys that were more basic bullseye type shooters where they just stood and shoot bullseye targets. So it's a. It's always interesting when you see types of shooters where you got guys that just a hobbyist and they're just trying to shoot standing still. Never try to not say, not say they're not trying to improve, but they're not trying to improve from a tactical Side. And you got other people that are really looking at more from a defensive use of firearms. And I had those guys, we set up some stage. A stage. And we ran stages a few times. And, you know, it was a good. Good learning from them to see how they can get faster. But it's just different types of shooters. So it's all. I always find that interesting. But yeah. And the next week or the next time we do some shooting, which, like I said, might be a few weeks now, we're going to do that seven and seven drill. You basically got a tier one target that's got four circles on it. A one inch circle, I think a two inch circle, a three inch circle at the bottom, and then another one inch circle. You basically draw to the one inch circle, Put one one in the one inch, two shots to the two inch to a slide lock. You do a reload, take three shots to the three inch circle, and then one shot back again to that one inch circle to your right of the three inch. So those guys.

[Co-host]

Seven shots, seven yards and seven seconds.

[Host]

Yeah, the three seven drill. That's what it's called. Three seven. Oh, good deal. I couldn't remember what the name of it was.

[Co-host]

Seven yards, seven shots, seven seconds.

[Host]

We've shot it before. I've never shot it clean. You actually, if you shoot it and you record it and can show that you've done it right, they'll give you a.

[Co-host]

Now they're doing a lot.

[Host]

Now they're giving away a patch. But you have to be able to prove that you did it and show. We've tried it a lot of rounds. Yeah, we've never. We've never successfully done that drill under seven seconds. Getting that. Yeah, it's just tough.

[Co-host]

Go through a lot of ammo. Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

I'm going to shoot it next time. I would do that and the fast drill, because I like the fast drill. That's a good drill. But you think about it, I mean, we're shooting that fast drill just a little under seven seconds. And that's. That's six shots.

[Co-host]

There's.

[Host]

There's no way I'm gonna be able to get that other drill. That's a tough drill. Yeah, it's nearly impossible.

[Co-host]

Better on the fast drill to be able to get to that drill. Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, absolutely. I got to get that fast drill under under six seconds consistently. Think I'm gonna be able to get the 7, 37 drill in seven seconds. Yeah. So pretty. Pretty cool drills, though. Yeah. Definitely have to get lucky, but that's kind of all I've got. You got anything else? No, I gotta get a better microphone.

[Co-host]

That's what I got. Yeah.

[Host]

You need to order that for the next one.

[Co-host]

With this. All right. We are everything.

[Host]

Guns. I guess we're out. Wrong button.

[Co-host]

Wrong button.

[Host]

Wrong button.

[Co-host]

What?

[Host]

I can't hear you.