Dance with the Menopause Devil

Summary

Everything is Fine - Episode: "Dance with the Menopause Devil"

Release Date: March 3, 2025
Hosts: Jennifer Romolini and Kim France

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Dance with the Menopause Devil," hosts Jennifer Romolini and Kim France delve into the multifaceted experiences of women navigating life over 40, with a particular focus on menopause. They explore personal challenges, societal perceptions, and the emotional turbulence that often accompanies this significant life transition. The conversation is candid, humorous, and deeply relatable, offering listeners both insight and solidarity.

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Personal Reflections on Learning and Growth

The episode opens with Kim sharing a personal revelation about embracing lifelong learning. She recounts a text conversation with her friend Jonathan, who is eager to learn piano at an age when many might feel it's too late to start something new. This sparks a discussion about the importance of continuous growth and not limiting oneself based on age.

Notable Quote:

• Kim France [02:01]: "At an age when you think you can't learn a new thing to learn a thing."

Jennifer echoes this sentiment, mentioning her commitment to writing by taking a class with author Lynn Stager, emphasizing that it's never too late to pursue new skills or hobbies.

---

Embracing Self-Acceptance and Letting Go

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around Kim's journey toward self-acceptance. She candidly shares how she has recently stopped caring about others' opinions of her, a realization that marks a pivotal shift in her self-perception.

Notable Quote:

• Kim France [04:35]: "I think I have only recently, truly recently stopped giving a shit."

Jennifer supports this by highlighting the liberation that comes with not being bound by societal judgments, especially as one grows older.

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Navigating Menopause: Challenges and Coping Mechanisms

As the episode title suggests, menopause is a central theme. Jennifer discusses her struggles with the symptoms, particularly night sweats and hot flashes, which disrupt her sleep and daily comfort. She humorously refers to these symptoms as "dancing with the menopause devils," illustrating the relentless and often unpredictable nature of menopause.

Notable Quotes:

• Jennifer Romolini [07:28]: "I've been dancing with the menopause devils a lot."
• Kim France [08:19]: "We are beginning to understand that menopause lasts forever."

They delve into the emotional and physical toll of menopause, discussing the societal misunderstandings about its duration and impact. Both hosts share their coping strategies, ranging from dietary adjustments to considering hormonal therapies.

---

The Intersection of Personal Life and Societal Issues

The discussion takes a turn towards broader societal issues, particularly politics and its impact on personal well-being. The hosts express frustration with the current political climate, highlighting how it exacerbates stress and anxiety, especially for women managing menopause.

Notable Quote:

• Jennifer Romolini [18:57]: "The modern Republican Party, modern conservatism is cruel."

They critique the lack of empathy in political discourse and its detrimental effects on mental health, tying it back to the overall theme of navigating life's challenges after 40.

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Health Care Frustrations and Systemic Critiques

Kim and Jennifer voice their frustrations with the healthcare system, emphasizing the difficulties in accessing timely medical care despite having comprehensive insurance. They critique the lack of universal healthcare and the inefficiencies that plague the current system, making it a significant source of stress.

Notable Quote:

• Jennifer Romolini [25:39]: "The fact that none of nobody wants universal health care is insane to me."

This segment underscores the intersection of personal health struggles with systemic issues, highlighting how external factors compound the challenges faced during menopause.

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Lifestyle and Self-Care: Practical Tips and Purchases

Transitioning from heavier topics, the hosts share personal anecdotes about their latest purchases and self-care routines. They discuss everything from kitchen accessories like oven mitts to skincare products, offering listeners relatable insights into maintaining self-care amidst life's chaos.

Notable Quotes:

• Kim France [29:37]: "I bought the cutest oven mitts from Block Shop."
• Jennifer Romolini [35:06]: "Differin is the best thing I've ever put on my face."

They provide recommendations for practical self-care products, emphasizing the importance of small joys and personal comforts in managing stress and enhancing well-being.

---

Listener Questions and Community Engagement

In the latter part of the episode, Jennifer and Kim address listener questions, fostering a sense of community and support. Topics range from managing moods and dealing with anxiety to recommendations for sustainable skincare products. This interactive segment reinforces the podcast's mission to create a supportive space for women over 40.

Notable Quote:

• Kim France [40:13]: "How do you manage your moods? Thoughts on SSRIs? Hormonal help, like HRT or the pill?"

The hosts offer thoughtful and personal responses, sharing their own coping mechanisms and encouraging listeners to seek what works best for them.

---

Conclusion: Embracing Authenticity and Community

As the episode wraps up, Jennifer and Kim reflect on the importance of authenticity and community support. They encourage listeners to embrace their true selves, let go of societal expectations, and seek connections with others who understand their journey. The closing remarks are a heartfelt reminder that despite the challenges, "Everything is Fine" because of the shared experiences and mutual support within the community.

Notable Quote:

• Kim France [50:18]: "We love our listeners."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Continuous Growth: It's never too late to learn new skills or pursue passions, regardless of age.
2. Self-Acceptance: Letting go of others' opinions fosters personal liberation and happiness.
3. Menopause Management: Understanding and coping with menopause requires both personal strategies and societal support.
4. Systemic Challenges: Navigating healthcare and political frustrations adds to the complexities of life over 40.
5. Self-Care Importance: Small self-care practices and personal comforts play a crucial role in managing stress.
6. Community Support: Engaging with a supportive community provides strength and solidarity during challenging times.

Notable Quotes

• Kim France [02:01]: "At an age when you think you can't learn a new thing to learn a thing."
• Kim France [04:35]: "I think I have only recently, truly recently stopped giving a shit."
• Jennifer Romolini [07:28]: "I've been dancing with the menopause devils a lot."
• Kim France [08:19]: "We are beginning to understand that menopause lasts forever."
• Jennifer Romolini [18:57]: "The modern Republican Party, modern conservatism is cruel."
• Jennifer Romolini [25:39]: "The fact that none of nobody wants universal health care is insane to me."
• Kim France [29:37]: "I bought the cutest oven mitts from Block Shop."
• Jennifer Romolini [35:06]: "Differin is the best thing I've ever put on my face."
• Kim France [40:13]: "How do you manage your moods? Thoughts on SSRIs? Hormonal help, like HRT or the pill?"
• Kim France [50:18]: "We love our listeners."

---

Conclusion

"Dance with the Menopause Devil" offers an unfiltered and heartfelt exploration of the challenges and triumphs that come with aging, particularly through the lens of menopause. Jennifer Romolini and Kim France provide a space for women to share, laugh, and connect, reinforcing the message that while life over 40 comes with its unique set of hurdles, it is also a time of profound growth and self-discovery. This episode is a testament to resilience, community, and the unending journey toward self-acceptance and well-being.

Transcript

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[Kim France]

Hi and welcome to Everything is Fine, a podcast for women over 40. We are your hosts. I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

And I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And I had a realization recently. Jen.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

I want to learn a thing. I want to learn a thing.

[Jen Romolini]

What would you like to learn, Kim France?

[Kim France]

Well, that's the question. I was texting with my friend Jonathan and he was looking for a piano teacher because he's going to learn how to play the piano. And I was like, that's so nice. Like at an age when you think you can't learn a new thing to learn a thing.

[Jen Romolini]

Totally. I think it is really important. I am taking yet another class this weekend. I'm taking a class with Lynn Stager, strong on how to get through the middle of a novel. I haven't even gotten to the middle of a novel yet, but I was like, it's coming. I might as well know.

[Kim France]

That's amazing.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I think it's only a two hour class. Sometimes you can get really good, like bookstore. I forget which bookstore it Is. But sometimes they offer like very famous writers offer like little workshops, like two hour workshops for $60. So I can post that in the show notes, which by the way, I want to just bring. I'm just going to do like a show notes in Patreon. That's like. That'll be the gift to the patrons that they get show notes. Like somebody should get show notes and I should probably do them. But I'm going to give that as a gift to our Patreon patrons. What things are you interested in learning?

[Kim France]

One thing that I really can't do, that I really wish I could do, and maybe I've mentioned this before, is single.

[Jen Romolini]

That seems like a good. Well, I mean, first off, I feel like you live with a professional singing teacher.

[Kim France]

Well, he's not really, you know, technically a singing teacher, so I would need to find an actual one.

[Jen Romolini]

Right, but. Well, I mean, you wouldn't want him to teach you anyway.

[Kim France]

But yeah, no, that would be bad. I mean, I would love to learn a musical instrument. I think that is like the way my brain works. I just don't think that would end well. But I do think. And I can't sing. I'm just pitchy. I have. I'm just. It's awful. But I love to sing.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's, I feel like that's the beginning of it. Like, you go where it's warm and where you're like excited about something, you know, then you're more likely to follow to, to keep going with it, to be consistent.

[Kim France]

I mean, it's true.

[Jen Romolini]

Might be. You could, I mean, look, you could. Hi. You could go to a. You get a singing teacher. That would be fun.

[Kim France]

I think it would be fun. And, and, and, and I wouldn't be the worst student they ever had?

[Jen Romolini]

No, probably not. I mean, I, I don't know. I mean, maybe, maybe it would be the worst, but you know, it doesn't matter. After a certain age, it doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't like, it doesn't. It doesn't matter. You're just old and it's just like you're a different thing. It's like you're post embarrassment.

[Kim France]

Can I tell you another thing?

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, please.

[Kim France]

I think I only recently truly stopped giving a shit what people think of me. Like, I think I've been, I think I've been talking a good game, you know, But I think I have only recently, truly recently stopped giving a shit.

[Jen Romolini]

I think. Wait, okay, so what made you come to that revelation? Was there a Specific incident.

[Kim France]

It was sort of a realization that I don't think the same way I used to think, you know, that there were certain people who, in my mind, I always really cared about impressing.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

So whether I was actually in any, you know, whether I was around them or, you know, they were in my life at the moment, they were always up there, you know, like, you know, running things through. Would that person be impressed with that? Would this person think that was lame?

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, this would be so embarrassing. Oh, this, you know. Oh, I don't know if I could deal with that. You know, whatever it is even like a, you know, just a change in expression when I brought something up.

[Kim France]

Yes, yes. And I don't care about that anymore as much. I mean, not nearly as much as I used to.

[Jen Romolini]

That's amazing. That is a reason to age. That is a reason to get older and be happy about it. I am still one foot in and one foot out. Like, for example, I didn't know if I was gonna bring this up, but I'm gonna bring it up. Apparently it is shocking that I am sort of single handedly normalizing or reclaiming the word C on this podcast.

[Kim France]

I saw that on the.

[Jen Romolini]

I was just like, are you the. Get the out of here. Are you really word policing me in this, in this climate, in these times? Like, you know, I, I don't. I. I don't know if it's like, I don't know if I'd like, you know, the hill I die on is that this needs to be a socially acceptable part of the Gen X lexicon. But, like, maybe, maybe I would, like, these are terrible times.

[Kim France]

You know what? And also, that's a word that I think used to have a lot of sting. You know, it doesn't have the sting it used to. And I think it's because people kept using it.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, yeah. And like, also, fucking Elon Musk is a cunt. Like, he's a fucking cunt. He deserves that.

[Kim France]

There's no other word.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, he deserves that. And I'm just like, I am so on the fucking brink of, like, agitation and anxiety. And just like, I am. I'm not. I'm not good. These are not. These are not good times. Did you see the robot that has muscles?

[Kim France]

No.

[Jen Romolini]

They've made like a sinewy robot that like, has joints and muscles. And like, there was like, like, exactly.

[Kim France]

Nothing can go wrong there.

[Jen Romolini]

Nothing can go wrong there. Not. Nothing at all. Nothing at all. I mean, I think the real problem, though is that I'VE been, I've been dancing with the menopause devils a lot. So I'm like, hot flashing all night long. I've been having carbs, I've been having caffeine and I've been having alcohol. And for me, like, after a while, it's like, I just can't. I probably need to get my hormones checked. I do. But of course, doctor's appointments are so fucking hard to get. But after a while, I just start, like, sweating. I start night sweating all night. Just like a hot, like you're turning the pillow over and like, that side's not cool and just like you're naked and it's like 45 degrees in the room. Like, it's just like, it's, it's not fun. And like, nobody understands that menopause lasts forever.

[Kim France]

Yes. I think we're beginning to understand that.

[Jen Romolini]

It's so long. It's so, so, so long. Um, anyway, yes, the, the menopause devils for sure.

[Kim France]

We, I should, I should just pause for a moment to say we love our listeners.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. We love our listeners. We love our listeners. But like, come on in these times, like, go on, go on.

[Kim France]

If you cut me, do I not bleed?

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. If you cut me, do I not bleed? Oh, my God, you're funny. Thank you. Funny. I'm blushing. I'm like, so, I'm like, so. I'm so raged up that I'm red.

[Kim France]

I understand. Did you see the, did you see the, the, the, the footage of a woman? She's like this, this bald woman and she's having hot flashes and you can see the steam coming off of her head.

[Jen Romolini]

She's at like a sporting event and it's like cold outside or whatever. She's on it outside bleachers. And like, she's got a bald head and you could see like little drops of sweat and just steam. I mean, look, I mean, like, Jane Fonda said it in her, like, SAG speech with somebody suggested we read about or talk about this week that, like, now is the time to be an angry woman. Like, come on.

[Kim France]

Yep. I mean, if this isn't going to make you angry.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, no, it's. If this isn't, if this isn't a time to throw the word cunt around. I don't know what time is.

[Kim France]

I, I, I, I would have to agree with you.

[Jen Romolini]

Hate to say it, but, like, come on, like, there's, there's worse shit to be talking about and, and splitting hairs over. So, yeah, I had a real moment with that, I was like, oh, am I. Is it bad that I'm using this word? Like, that's what I mean. Why? I'm like half on, half off in terms of giving a. Because I was like, is that important feedback? Like, should I care? And I was like, no, I don't. I shouldn't. Oh, well, fuck it. I told you that. Charlotte, I was like cursing at a driver the other day and I was like, oh, I'm so sorry, honey. I'm so sorry. I shouldn't be cursing. And they were like, no, mom, I know. This is just who you are. I was like, mom, I guess.

[Kim France]

Okay, Charlotte is so destined for a comedy writer's room.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh my God. They fell asleep in social skills class. This is such a funny story. They would die if I was telling this. They fell asleep in social skills class. And the instructor came to my side of social skills class and was like, you know, is Charlotte okay? You know, I don't wanna, you know, And I was like, what's going on? So I went in and I was like, hey, honey, wake up. You know, you're sleeping. What's going on? And they said, what happened? And I said, you were sleeping? And they just said very loudly, not very good social skill. I was like, oh, my God, oh.

[Kim France]

My God, oh my God.

[Jen Romolini]

So funny. How was your week?

[Kim France]

My week was fine. I mean, my bad mood continued apace.

[Jen Romolini]

Pretty much.

[Kim France]

It's still here. Although I'm not going to make it quite the focus of the episode that it was last week.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, good, good, good. I'm about to show you. I'm about to take a sip of water, which means you're about to see something that nobody should see.

[Kim France]

Okay. Oh my God.

[Jen Romolini]

I got one of the adult sippy cups.

[Kim France]

You got a grown up sippy cup. Look at you.

[Jen Romolini]

I'm so ashamed. Like, I just went to pull and I was like, I don't want her to see this shit. I'm always dehydrated. I had to do it.

[Kim France]

You know what, Jen? I actually think it's a really smart thing to have an adult sippy cup if you. Cause right now I have a glass of water on the same table as my laptop.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Kim France]

That's just begging. Begging for something bad to happen.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, it's begging for a disaster. Also, there's just never enough water and I'm lazy and I don't go fill it up. And so I just got this. I was in the supermarket yesterday morning and I was like, oh, maybe that's for me now. Why not see.

[Kim France]

And you will truly be free when that doesn't embarrass you anymore.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, right, right. Well, I mean, look, just look. Just the visual is actually, the color.

[Kim France]

Combination is pretty good. It's not like I can tell you spent some time on that choice.

[Jen Romolini]

Probably like 10 minutes standing in the aisle, which, by the way, they don't have the lids on them because I guess people. Everybody steals everything in stores, so. Stores are so inconvenient.

[Kim France]

I know. You can't go into Walgreens here anymore. You can't go into Walgreens without having to get everything unlocked for you. Except for the Walgreens brand stuff.

[Jen Romolini]

It's so embarrassing to get it unlocked. It's just like, like, hi, could you come? And, like, I was literally looking for mustache bleach the other day, and, like, I had to get help from, like, a male, you know, a male Walgreens worker. And not that that's the worst thing in the world, but I was just like. I had to, like, explain what it was to him several times. Oh, no. Yes, yes. And then I was like, I think it's locked in this section. And it was. But, you know, it was like, is a hair dye? And I was like, no, it's for kind of. But it's for your mustache.

[Kim France]

What is that product called? Is it the same product? Jolene?

[Jen Romolini]

It's JoLynn. It's JoLynn. Yes. It's been. I don't know if it's still Jolynn. I think Clairol just start. Just took it over or somebody just took it over. I don't think it's old timey Jo Lynn. But, yeah, that was a time.

[Kim France]

Remember Nair?

[Jen Romolini]

Of course I do. My first husband, I did not know he had, like, a serious back hair problem until he asked me to Nair his back.

[Kim France]

Wow. Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I was like, I don't care about marriage. This is. I didn't sign up for that. This wasn't in the vows. I'm very upset. As I was telling you before we got on air, I had to cancel my vacation to Mexico City after I had done so much research. I could have written a report about Mexico City and then looked at approximately 40,000 Airbnbs in Mexico City and was about. I mean, literally, like, hovering over, you know, click to book. When I said to my husband, so I just wanna make sure I have the dates right. And he was like, oh, wait. And I was like, wait, what?

[Kim France]

I'm sorry, I'm laughing.

[Jen Romolini]

And he was like, oh, yeah, my book's due. And I was like, and when. So anyway, instead of going to Mexico, I am going to Denver.

[Kim France]

You're going to Denver?

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Ask me why.

[Kim France]

Why are you going to Denver?

[Jen Romolini]

Because there's a restaurant in Denver that was create that was recently bought and refurbished by the creators of south park called Casa Bonita.

[Kim France]

Yes, I have read about this and.

[Jen Romolini]

My child, who is a South park freak, has been wanting to go. And I was like, let me see if I could get. And there's been no reservations. And I was like, let me see if I can get a reservation. And I did. And I was like, would you ever want to go to that restaurant? And they were like, I would, but it's always booked. And I was like, well, guess who got a reservation. It's spring break, so we might road trip to Colorado and then fly out.

[Kim France]

How long a drive is that? How long a drive is that?

[Jen Romolini]

It's only 15 hours, so you could do it pretty easily in three days. Although we might just fly, I don't know, because flying seems like a nightmare right now. I don't want to fly.

[Kim France]

I know, I know. And as you know, we're considering coming out to LA in a bit, but I am a little concerned about flying as well.

[Jen Romolini]

They're firing everybody who controls the planes. They're just like, they, like, it's just the Doge. The Doge boys with names like Ball Liquor are just like, running our government.

[Kim France]

It's like, I'm getting so stressed having this conversation because I've been trying so hard to avoid all of this. Unsuccessfully, I might add, because it's, you know, you can't. If you spend any time on plugged into anything, you can't ignore it. And that's the thing.

[Jen Romolini]

That's the thing.

[Kim France]

Like, can I be friends with a Republican? Yes, I could be friends with a Republican. Could I be friends with a Republican? You know, in the what we think of today as the Republican Party, that would be significantly harder. Like, think about what a fucking good guy Mitt Romney seems like and what an enemy he was when he was running against Obama.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, George W. Bush even seems like a saint, comparatively. Continue.

[Kim France]

By the way, there seems to be some evidence, according to some people, to suggest that the Obamas lead separate lives and that Barack Obama and Jennifer Aniston are an item.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, stop it. You have to stop this right now. I saw this crazy spam shit.

[Kim France]

No, I'm telling you, I reacted the same way you did. Like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever fucking heard. Right?

[Jen Romolini]

This is. This is spam. We're in like menopausal Joe Rogan territory right now.

[Kim France]

I said there was some evidence what.

[Jen Romolini]

The AI generated image of the two of them where she looks like Jennifer Aniston looks like, like us. Like she looks like a pony. It doesn't make any sense at all.

[Kim France]

Like, it just, it doesn't make any sense. But it, it, I. When I saw it, I, I saw some people talking about it on a podcast that I thought sounded kind of credible. I realize this is falling apart the longer I talk.

[Jen Romolini]

It's amazing. No, but, like, I want to go back to talking about Republicans and Democrats because there used to be a time where, like, sure, we had different politics. You might be pro life, I'm pro choice. Like, I had a problem bridging that gap, but I had pro life friends. Like, there were times when there was just, it was just different politics was entirely different. And the modern Republican Party, modern conservatism is cruel.

[Kim France]

It is cruel. It has, it, it lacks any kind of empathy.

[Jen Romolini]

And it's, it's, it's slightly deranged. And in an effort to bust norms, it's hurting a lot of people. And I think that if you are white and able bodied and straight and you have money and you're a homeowner, of course none of this fucking means anything to you. Because it does. It has no impact on your life.

[Kim France]

Right.

[Jen Romolini]

And like the fact that you can't imagine what it would feel like if it did. I have a real fucking problem with that.

[Kim France]

No, I agree.

[Jen Romolini]

I just, you know, I just. I can't abide it. It's not okay to me.

[Kim France]

I agree.

[Jen Romolini]

Let's take a quick break from some ab.

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I mean, obviously you have.

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[Jen Romolini]

I love Ritual. We've been.

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[Jen Romolini]

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[Jen Romolini]

And we're back. Yeah, so anyway, Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, like, I don't know, like good for them. If they get a divorce. I'm. I'm pro divorce. If people are not happy anymore, well.

[Kim France]

I don't even know if they're unhappy. They're just leading separate lives. According to this this highly credible source that I can't remember.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean look, Jennifer Aniston, big pothead Barack Obama kind of pothead. Barack Obama smoker. Jennifer Aniston smoker for sure.

[Kim France]

A smoker.

[Jen Romolini]

She seems like all reports is that she is just the sweetest person in the world. Like just the nicest person to be around. Barack Obama seems nice. Funny.

[Kim France]

Yep. See, I'm just telling you I reacted the precise way you did the first time I saw it. Like this is some Dumb AI fuckery. But then it kept coming up, and then I was like, you know what? I just kind of think it could be true. And as much as Michelle Obama hates Trump, she still didn't show up at the inauguration or at Carter's funeral.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, but I think that's her just being like, I am not. I am not getting.

[Kim France]

Probably. Probably.

[Jen Romolini]

I'm just saying, I mean, look, I don't know. I mean, would you be upset? What if they divorced? What do you think everyone would be like? Do you think people would. Would be crushed?

[Kim France]

I think they would. And it's so. I think it would be silly, but I think people would be crushed because they've always seemed to have such a good marriage. But I think one of the things about their marriage that always seemed good to me was that they always acknowledged that it was a slog, you know, that it was tough.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes, yes. And also, we're just so heavily invested in the fairy tale of marriage. When, like, marriage was, like, formed as, you know, a thing that was mainly meant so that people would have children. And also, like, when people died when they were, like, 45.

[Kim France]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

We're in an outdated institution here, friends.

[Kim France]

No, it was a business proposition.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

You know, and then we attached all these other things to it.

[Jen Romolini]

Right. The big fairy tale. And it is like a way that they keep us controlled, too, you know, for sure. Like, you know, it's so much financially. There's so many financial incentives to being married. It's so much harder to not be married and survive in this country. Oh, my God. I've been dealing with doctors and not even for myself, and nothing as serious is happening. But just, like, it's so broken. The system is so broken. I had to, like, Charlotte is like a minor health thing, and I had to get a referral for a specialist. And I was like. And they told me, well, referral usually takes about two weeks. And I was like, why you have the referral right now? You know who to tell me to go to? And they're like, no, because of insurance. Because insurance has to approve it, and it takes about two weeks. And I was like, but I have a ppo. Like, I pay for the most expensive insurance. Yes, but sometimes. And I have United Healthcare.

[Kim France]

Yeah, me too.

[Jen Romolini]

And they were like, yeah, but sometimes with the. Like, they won't accept a certain reform referral. And this is a special. Like, I was. I. I was just going round around and I was like, okay, so the referral finally comes in, and it's in the portal And I was like, okay, so I'm trying to get into the portal. And they were like, no, you can't get into the portal until you have your pin. And I was like, where is my pin?

[Kim France]

It's a pin.

[Jen Romolini]

Where's my pin? Where's my pin? I just want to take my kid to the doctor to deal with this minor health situation. I pay plenty of money and health insurance. Like, we are so backwards in this country. The fact that none of nobody wants universal health care is insane to me. The fact that, like, we are, like cutting government agencies that will like, clean the shitty bathroom at the national park, that you pay tax money to have that bathroom cleaned. Like, why are we firing all these people?

[Kim France]

I'm with you, Jen. You're pushing on an open door.

[Jen Romolini]

Sorry, sorry. I'm just so mad. I'm so mad. It's so broken.

[Kim France]

I know it's broken. I will say my Canadian friends complain just as much for different reasons. And I'm not saying it's perfect here. I'm saying it's terrible here. I'm just saying that it's also bad that way.

[Jen Romolini]

No, the free healthcare everywhere is kind of bad. Like you have to wait a long time for doctors, but in other countries you can pay a little bit more to have an upgrade. Like, you know, you can pay like $15 a month to have like Spain, you could pay like $15 a month to have just a tiny upgrade. And then you get. Then, then your access is improved. But it's not prohibitively expensive like it is here. It's not thousands of dollars like it is here. Speaking of, speaking of, Spain is looking really good. A lot of digital nomad visas going on in Spain.

[Kim France]

Yeah, no, Spain is good. I know Spain doesn't. I've never felt like, oh, I could live there when in Spain, but I do like it a lot.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. Well, if you get your digital nomad visa through Spain, which I think you need to be in Spain before you, like, I think you need to be living there already and it's easier to get it. You need to have, like, have some kind of residence if then you can get a three year visa and you can move throughout Europe. But I'm not ready to leave yet because I got this kid. And also, you know, I'm not quite ready to leave America yet. Although I probably should be.

[Kim France]

Yeah, we all should be.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. What's gonna happen?

[Kim France]

I know, but then I think there is something to not. I mean, not that moving away is giving up, but moving away is disengaging yeah, it is.

[Jen Romolini]

It's true.

[Kim France]

You know, and I think that, you know, if you really love this country, and there are a lot of things about this country that I do love, then there's something to staying and getting involved, you know, on the community level, like our friend Jen always says.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, no, there is. And also, you know, calling your representatives. Just call them until you can't call them anymore. They're getting a lot of calls. And it does seem like maybe there's, like, some pushback happening finally. I've been looking at all these town halls I've been looking at all these town halls of people just, like, you know, screaming at their representatives about Elon Musk. So, I mean, hopefully, since everybody's only interested in power and getting rehired into these government jobs, hopefully that will do something. We'll see. We'll see. It's just gonna be bad. This is gonna be a bummer for a while. Like, there's just no way around it.

[Kim France]

No, there isn't. And it's gonna be. It's gonna get bummerier.

[Jen Romolini]

It is. But in the meantime, I am being. I am totally being frivolous. Did you buy anything cool? This. What is your favorite thing that you bought to wear this week?

[Kim France]

This week? You know what I bought? It's not something to wear, but I bought it a couple weeks ago. I bought the cutest oven mitts.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, nice.

[Kim France]

I bought the cutest oven mitts from Block Shop.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes, yes. You know, Block Shop there. I love Block Shop. Yes.

[Kim France]

They're so great. They're so great. It's a bunch of sisters.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. I have Block Shop rugs and curtains.

[Kim France]

Oh, and I gave you a Block Shop robe.

[Jen Romolini]

That's right. That's right. Last year. Yes. And napkins.

[Kim France]

And napkins. Anyway, I really like my Block Shop potholders. They make me really happy when I look at them. Oh, I bought some sneakers.

[Jen Romolini]

By whom?

[Kim France]

They're gola.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, I like gola. I like gola. I like gola a lot. Do they have a little platform or are they the flat ones?

[Kim France]

No, they're kind. They're not flat. Flat. I like to have some. I need some kind of, like, sole. The sneakers that I see now that have, like, no sole, that look like from the seventies. I could never. You have to be so long and lean to wear those.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, they really. They really. They kind of do make you look stumpy. Those Adidas that everybody's wearing.

[Kim France]

Yeah. What did you buy?

[Jen Romolini]

I bought. Well, I've been on, like, a Moroccan Rug kick. You can find really amazing rugs for, like, no, for, like, nothing on ebay. I mean, not ebay, on Etsy. And you can really get them in custom sizes. So I had, like, a couple of spaces in this new house that were, like, weird sizes that I wanted a throw rug. And I got the first one yesterday. And it's gorgeous. And it was like $260 for, like, a substantial rug. Like, really nice. And then you had a post about black jeans last week, which you and I disagree about black jeans. I think black jeans should be inky and black and you think they should be faded and gray. And this is. We will disagree forever on this. But I did buy your Old Navy jeans wreck, and it was. They're pretty good. They're okay. They're still. I hate the fucking gray. I might dye them black. But while I was there, I bought this oversized button down, 100% cotton. Like a boyfriend button down. It was, I don't know, $18. It is the nicest shirt I've owned in a really long time. It's a perfect. I like. I like a sort of bigger drop. Drop shoulder button down. It's so good. I'm going to go back and get three more in three different colors.

[Kim France]

It's like, send me the link. Send me the link.

[Jen Romolini]

It's a forest green. Like, it's so good. And I wore it with, like, the skinny jeans. Like, Alex. Even Alex was like, wow, you look really good today. That's a really good shirt. And I was like, Old Navy. I was very excited to be like, it was $18.

[Kim France]

God. I haven't gone into an old. I haven't actually gone into an Old Navy in a long time. And there's one not far from here.

[Jen Romolini]

I have found I got like, a very cute red fleece from Old Navy last year that had, like, these kind of like amazing balloon sleeves. Like, they. Sometimes you go in and you're like, wow, this is. This is great. And then Mango had like a sale on T shirts, and I bought a bunch of $6 cotton T shirts.

[Kim France]

You know what I want to check out and I haven't is Gaps. And Zach Posen started doing it.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, Gaps. I saw the Gap assance. I saw the cut was like. Or the strategist was like, the Gap is having a Gap A. And I was like, okay, whatever. The Gap still fits bad. Like, that's the problem with the Gap. It's still the. The Gap still fits fucking bad. That is. Is. And sometimes you hit it and it doesn't but usually it's just a, it's just because like most of these stores, they're just cranking out clothes and the fit is just not great.

[Kim France]

No. And when people say to me, why would I ever spend $250 on a pair of chinos when I can buy them at x store for $17? I always want to say, and often do say it's because of the fit, it's because of how they were made. I mean, it's also because a lot of those brands are making a much smaller quantity of items.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. And the fabrics aren't, aren't trash and whatever. But yeah. So that's. So. Yeah. So Mango. I went through, they had some sale and I went through and I put in 100% cotton and I just bought like a bunch of T shirts and tank tops for the summer. I'm very excited for them to arrive. And then I've switched up my skincare routine and I am, I'm going to be very disappointed when I have to switch it up again because I think that differin is the best thing I've ever put on my face.

[Kim France]

Really?

[Jen Romolini]

It's, it's this, it's, it's amazing. It's like. It's a retinol. It's a retinol, but it's not, it's non irritating. It's like, I actually think it's like really doing a good job on my skin. I just stopped using everything except different, which is $13. It's like that, it's been around forever. It was like one of the first non prescription retinoids you could get and vitamin C serum. I've been doing just the two of them and I think my skin is looking really, really good. Yeah, it looks great, I think, but I think those. Because that's, you know, some people, I just got this, this pitch about how is moisturizer actually bad for your face? Or like that moisturizer is superfluous and I don't moisturize, so I actually believe that. But I mean, people have really dry skin. I get it. But this was saying that if you're getting like, if you're exfoliating and having enough cell turnover and using like a brightening serum, like you don't actually need moisturizer.

[Kim France]

I mean, I've read that moisturizer just makes your face skin softer.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I mean, but it also can clog your pores. You know, I don't, I don't love moisturizer.

[Kim France]

I don't really use it. I mean, I've been using. I got sent some Vintner's Daughter serum.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, man. People love that stuff. And I don't know why.

[Kim France]

I mean, I like it. I put it on in the morning before I walk the dog, you know. I don't know. I don't know what any of it does.

[Jen Romolini]

I just am so skeptical of, like, expensive, expensive serums that I can't really see that they have, like, a potent ingredient list. I'm just like. I'm not like Ptox, which is the skinceutical serum I actually think is like. It is, like, these very significant peptides in it. And they're starting to see that, like, peptides actually have a similar effect on your skin to Botox, to, like, neurotoxins. Like, where. Because some of them are made with, like, snake venom and shit, and they actually can they freeze wrinkles in a similar way, but I mean, obviously less immediately and less harsh. So like peptides, but like, some of these are these boutique serums. I'm like, there's fucking nothing. There's nothing of value, really, in this. At least not at a potency that would mean anything, right? And it's like $100. For what?

[Kim France]

Well, I got it for free.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm the bitch this week. I'm sorry. It's me, it's me. You're fine.

[Kim France]

You're fine.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, I'm sorry. It's me. This is. This week is my bad week. I think we. We could turn to listener questions because somebody asked how we deal with our shitty moods.

[Kim France]

I sent you. I sent them to you in a file. Did you get them?

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. No, I didn't get them, but I'll. I'll look right now. Wow. Thank you.

[Kim France]

Well, I was avoiding doing other stuff before we started.

[Jen Romolini]

I hate the new Gmail so much more things just really. Just give me the Andy Rooney job. Somebody just hire me and just give it to me right now. Okay, okay, okay. I'm going to ask the first question because it's a question that comes up all the time, which is how come you never talk about Jane Pratt?

[Kim France]

We're not friends.

[Jen Romolini]

We're not friends.

[Kim France]

We're not enemies, but we're not friends.

[Jen Romolini]

I think. Okay. Do you want to elaborate or is that enough?

[Kim France]

That's enough.

[Jen Romolini]

I think so, too. Good. Case closed. Okay.

[Kim France]

Okay. I'll go next.

[Jen Romolini]

You go next.

[Kim France]

I've never been a thong fan, but I started being more active and find the less bulky fabric the better. Is there a good Brand you recommend for women of our age for exercise that is comfortable and will stay put.

[Jen Romolini]

Thongs. I mean, I just am like, just go command. Like, don't wear anything.

[Kim France]

I really like my on gossamer mesh bikinis.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

They don't ride up. They're ultra light. They also come in a, like, more substantial panty, if that's more your speed.

[Jen Romolini]

I hate underwear, as we have discussed a million times. I think it's a waste of money, and I just am bummed out by it every time I have to spend money on it. So I buy black cotton granny panties from Amazon that were recommended on Wirecutter. They're kind of cute. They have, like, lace on them. When I wear underwear I do have. If I'm. I just don't remember where I got this thong from. Like, Hank. Hanky panky, maybe? Does that mean.

[Kim France]

Yeah, they make. They make a popular thong.

[Jen Romolini]

They make a popular thong. And I think there's a popular thong from actually a brand called Commando. Speaking of Commando.

[Kim France]

Yep. That's a brand, too.

[Jen Romolini]

I think those two I would recommend. Okay. On a completely different theme, I'd like more deets on your doggy, Kim.

[Kim France]

Aw. Mr.

[Jen Romolini]

Mister.

[Kim France]

I thought Mister was gonna get in the way of recording today. Cause he barks and barks and barks at me until I give him a stick. And sometimes that's not enough, and he'll continue barking at me.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, all right.

[Kim France]

That's very boring information. Mr. Is from Thailand. I got him at an adoption fair in New York. He is what has been described to me as semi feral. He bit Charlotte. He nipped at Charlotte when you guys were at my house.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, he did. And Charlotte's really good with dogs, so that was unusual.

[Kim France]

Yeah, Mr. Can be. You never really know. Like, when people stop me on the street with their dogs and say, is he friendly? I'm like, usually, you know, I can't promise anything.

[Jen Romolini]

My dog herds children. She's, like, half cattle dog. And, like, she'll really try to nip and herd a kid. It's really a problem. Like a small kid. So I can't have toddlers in the house.

[Kim France]

I can't have toddlers either. He doesn't do anything. But it makes me so nervous. I have to. I've locked him upstairs in my bedroom when I've had toddlers over before.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, next. Next question.

[Kim France]

Okay. Love this week's episode. The weather podcast. Can I ask how you two manage your moods? Thoughts on SSRIs? Hormonal help, like HRT or the pill?

[Jen Romolini]

Are you taking a pause? You're pausing on this one. How do you manage your moods? Go.

[Kim France]

I have. Well, I take a pretty powerful psychopharmaceutical cocktail. I've been doing that for a very long time. You know, shit moods will break through. And I just try to, when I get that way, like, I alternate between just like, feeling like I just gotta lay on the sofa and let the world turn without me today, and other times feeling like, no, I have to put myself on manual and make myself do shit today because I feel so bad.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I. I do take hormone. I do take hormones, which I think I need more of. I have been trying something new. Like, the last couple days, I've been very anxious. That's where I. I'm. I'm a less depressed person than I am an anxious person. And, like, I've been very, like, paranoid. Like, oh. Like, oh, my God, like, we're getting a new neighbor. This whole, like, oh, what if our landlord kicks us out? Like, I really spiral. I get into anxiety spirals. And I've been trying, instead of seeing the anxiety and being like, oh, my God. And then like, adding to the anxiety, like, why are you so anxious? Like, being. I've been trying to be like, wait, why are you so anxious? Like, really trying to be curious about the feeling instead of trying to abolish it. I don't.

[Kim France]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Because going through anything is better than trying to go around it.

[Jen Romolini]

That. Whoa. Whoa. That's very smart. Damn. Sometimes you just drop one and I'm like, whoa. That's exactly it. But, yeah, I've been really anxious and I've been trying to not self medicate too much. Although probably part of the anxiety is because I've been self medicating.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

You know, like, having like three drinks doesn't. Doesn't really help anything. Like, it just doesn't. It doesn't help. Like, last week I was like, I'm avoiding alcohol. And then this weekend I was like, vodka. What can I. What's in the house that I can mix with this vodka?

[Kim France]

Oh, yeah, No, I know. It sure can seem like your friend.

[Jen Romolini]

It really can. And then it's not. Anyway, I don't. I don't know the answer to this really is the truth. Clean, ethical, green drugstore face cream recommendations. Is that a unicorn? Weleda. I would say Weleda would top my list. Elf, I think is clean, which is really kind of amazing. And they have some good gel moisturizers. I think those are the two off the top of My head.

[Kim France]

Okay. Do you have any good stories about working with photographers from your magazine days? Photo shoot? Tea, please. Any photographers that you historically love, hate, or follow. I mean, I do remember when I was at Sassy, hearing that, and this was alarming because it was at a teen magazine that most photographers who were male in those days, like, you know, still most fashion photographers are male, would always successfully get a nude off of the model at some point during the shoot.

[Jen Romolini]

Sad. Yeah, I don't think I have any good photographer stories. I wasn't. That wasn't what my role was. I wasn't close enough to that part of the production.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

To have and to really. I mean, I worked with photographers, I found, you know, I worked alongside them, waiting to get the story from like an AT cover actress or cover model. But, you know, they were all pretty above board. I only worked with gay photographers, which I think helped.

[Kim France]

Yeah, that's probably 100% true. Because the straight ones can be very. Terry Richardson.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. And we worked. I think, lucky we worked with mostly gay or, you know, a lot of gay. We had a lot of gay photographers. Yeah.

[Kim France]

And female photographers too.

[Jen Romolini]

That's right. That's right. And female photographers. That did help. Okay, podcast recommendations. Who better to ask than my two favorite podcast hosts? Oh, thank you.

[Kim France]

That's very nice.

[Jen Romolini]

That's very nice. But I don't. I haven't really been. I mean, I listen to Money for couples. Listen to Ramit Sethi's Sethi's podcast because I. Cause I find that helps me. I listen to. You Must Remember this for fun and pleasure. I listen to the socialist podcast Upstream sometimes. I listen to Marc Maron almost every week because I just feel a sense of connection with him as a neurotic old man. Yeah, I don't really have. I don't really have any new ones. I've been listening. Oh, the Dream is coming out or just came out. Jane Marie's the Dream. That's a great podcast where she like, sort of debunks something in the wellness industry every season.

[Kim France]

That's cool.

[Jen Romolini]

She's great. But yeah, I don't have anything. Oh, and I also listened to this Jungian Life, the Carl Jung podcast.

[Kim France]

Well, I'm very happy. Cause it was just reported in the New York Times today that my very favorite podcast Heavyweight is coming back.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, wow, that's amazing.

[Kim France]

Yeah, Pushkin is gonna bring it back.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, that's so smart. That's so smart. They should bring it back.

[Kim France]

Yeah, it's a wonderful podcast, all about closure and life and it's very weepy.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I love weepy. Weepy's good. Weepy. Sometimes feel that often feels like a better release than all this rage.

[Kim France]

For sure.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay, your turn.

[Kim France]

Okay. I read the New York Times story on Vuori. Is that how you say it? Vuori and the comments savaged it and other companies for plastics in their clothes. Do I care about this? Should I? I think we're supposed to care about microplastics in our clothes. I know we are, because every time I do anything on fleece, I am told that fleece releases microplastics into the ocean.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I think we're supposed to care. I think that. I think you're right. I think we're supposed to care.

[Kim France]

I bought.

[Jen Romolini]

I bought a pair of leggings to go to the gym. And I was like, these are 100 made out of forever chemicals or whatever. They're like, I should not have cheaped out on these leggings. I should have bought a, like a natural fiber pair of leggings. Yeah, you know, I don't. I don't want to. I don't. It's hard to sit with the idea that, like, a piece of clothing is going to be around longer than, like, several generations.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jen Romolini]

So, yeah, I mean, I think we should all be making better decisions like that. And, you know, yet we're talking about Old Navy, but, you know, what are you going to do? Okay, last question of the day. Is there anything to help with crepey skin? So this is a really tough one because the crepey skin has a lot. It's the texture of the crepey skin, it's the sag of the crepey skin. There's a lot going on. I have myself been developing, like, a very, like, reptilian neck skin recently, and I've been using a red light. I've been using a red light collar basically for my neck, and I do think it's helping. I've also been using retinol on my neck because that can help re. That can help with the texture of your skin. And I think both things are helping. I mean, ultimately, crepey skin, like, you can use products, and I think they do help with the texture of your skin. I think retinoids, vitamin C, peptides, all of that can help tighten a little bit if used very consistently. And red light therapy, you can also go in for resurfacing treatments in, you know, dermatologist's office. There's a lot of skin tightening. There's fraxel there's lots of skin tightening things you can do. You can just ask them what they recommend. Ultimately, it's going to be. And I've been. Because I've been thinking about this a lot. It's a war that you're just going to keep fighting because the crepey skin wants to come for you. So it's like, how long are you going to fight? Fight it or. Because ultimately you could just get a facelift or a neck lift and you wouldn't have crepey skin there again until 10, 15 years when it developed again.

[Kim France]

That's a very thorough answer.

[Jen Romolini]

Thank you. Thank you. I try. I try. Well, sorry everybody. That was such a crank this week, but guess we're swapping. At least it's not both at the same time.

[Kim France]

I know. I don't know if we. I don't know if we would even survive that.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. I don't know. Would the software just implode?

[Kim France]

Yes. We'd be like the drummer and Spinal Tap.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly. Yes, exactly, exactly, exactly. All right, well, listen. Thanks for listening to Everything is Fine. We are your hosts. I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

If you like the show, please rate and review it on the platforms like Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show. Show and it makes a difference. If you want to support the production of the show and I've decided this week, get show notes, you can join our Patreon for $3 a month. It's patreon.comeverythingisfine. if you want to find Kim and Kim's style recommendations, you can find Kim at kimfrance.substack.com you can find me at jenromalini.substack.com you can Find us both on Facebook, which is where a lot of these comments came from. We have a robust and private Facebook group. We're also on Instagram @EIF podcast. The show is mixed and edited by wonderful, fabulous Natalie Rivera. Thank you, Natalie, as always. And we'll be back next week.

[Jonathan Fields]

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[Jen Romolini]

Possible.

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