Runnin' On Empty

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everything Is Fine – Episode: "Runnin' On Empty"

Introduction

In the April 21, 2025 episode of Everything Is Fine, hosts Kim France and Jennifer Romolini delve into the multifaceted challenges faced by women over 40. Titled "Runnin' On Empty," the episode explores themes of overwork, mental health, societal pressures, and the pervasive influence of social media. Through candid conversations and relatable anecdotes, Jen and Kim offer insights and coping strategies for navigating this complex stage of life.

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Overwork and the Creator Economy

The episode opens with Jen Romolini expressing her struggles with overwork, especially balancing her day job with her responsibilities in the creator economy. Jen candidly shares her exhaustion and the relentless demand for content creation, highlighting a pervasive issue many women face in maintaining work-life balance.

Jen Romolini [02:20]: "I'm never not working. There's like, literally I'm sitting in a fucking bathroom with my face toward a toilet. It's ridiculous."

Kim France empathizes, suggesting that recognizing one's relentless schedule is the first step toward making necessary adjustments.

Kim France [04:37]: "Recognizing that you're doing that, this is how you built your life, may be a good first step toward adjusting that."

Coping Mechanisms: Sad Box and Voice Lessons

To manage her feelings of being "burnt out," Kim introduces the concept of the "sad box," a collection of items meant to provide comfort during tough times. Although the initial effect seems minimal, it represents a step toward self-care.

Jen discusses her attempt at voice lessons as another coping mechanism, humorously detailing her progress and the light-hearted nature of her training.

Kim France [08:44]: "I've used it every day for 10 minutes, like you're supposed to. Okay, so far, no. No big change. So far, nothing."

Jen Romolini [09:16]: "It's really good. He understands I can't sing at all. He's like, we're going to learn noises before we're going to sing."

Running on Empty: Collective Fatigue

Jen and Kim explore the overarching theme of collective exhaustion in modern society. They discuss the impact of constant connectivity and the pressure to maintain high energy levels, which often leads to burnout.

Jen Romolini [09:46]: "I do feel like it's just pleasure grabs right now. Like, that's all you can have. Because you know what? We're all kind of running on empty."

Critique of Women in Space and Public Figures

The conversation shifts to a critique of the portrayal of women in high-profile roles, such as space exploration. Jen expresses frustration with how some public figures, including celebrities and media personalities, handle their roles and societal expectations.

Jen Romolini [10:19]: "I am so angry about this that I made myself laugh last night. I was like, I'm so humiliated for women. I feel embarrassed for all of those women, first of all. And fucking Katy Perry."

Kim adds to the critique, comparing instances of public figures' behavior unfavorably.

Kim France [11:07]: "What was anyone thinking? Please tell me. What do you think they were thinking?"

Social Media Addiction and Influence

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the pervasive influence of social media. Jen and Kim discuss the challenges of navigating misinformation, influencer culture, and the addictive nature of platforms like Instagram and Facebook.

Jen Romolini [14:20]: "It's so weird because you have an immaculate jaw and neck and like the jaw and neck of like a 30 year old. But she was clearly probably like, she was like an enfeebled 81."

They highlight the detrimental effects of social media on self-esteem and the spread of misleading information, emphasizing the need for critical consumption of online content.

Kim France [36:08]: "What's amazing right now is how much is getting passed off as fact."

Lifestyle and Shopping Habits

The hosts delve into the complexities of modern consumerism, discussing their reliance on platforms like Amazon and the internal conflict between wanting to support ethical shopping habits versus the convenience provided by large retailers.

Jen Romolini [31:14]: "Nobody ever shops the other retailers."

Kim shares her personal struggles with reducing her dependency on Amazon, illustrating the difficulty of breaking ingrained shopping habits.

Kim France [30:11]: "I have to say that I'm not getting everything. Like I'm just not ordering the shit I need."

They also touch upon the societal pressure to appear a certain way, leading to spending on high-end products and the internal battle of wanting to maintain quality without succumbing to financial strain.

Jen Romolini [43:30]: "I saw the Strategist. I don't know. Or maybe it was wirecutter. Somebody tested a $45,000 mattress or something."

Listener Questions

Towards the end of the episode, Jen and Kim address listener-submitted questions, providing a personal touch and fostering a sense of community among their audience.

1. Do you and Jen ever fight?

   • Jen Romolini [47:25]: "We don't really fight. I think we really have a lot of patience for each other."
   • Kim France [47:28]: "We don't really fight. I think there's an I don't give a shit."

2. Is jealousy ever a good thing?

   • Jen Romolini [48:49]: "Jealousy can be motivating. Professional jealousy has been a guiding force to what you really want."
   • Kim France [49:37]: "There’s a kind of jealousy that has been pretty corrosive, but it can be motivating."

3. What was the last fib you told and to whom?

   • Jen Romolini [50:39]: "I told my husband he looked good in pants that didn’t."
   • Kim France [51:07]: "Probably said I didn’t take edibles when I did."

4. What was the last great meal you ate?

   • Jen Romolini [51:45]: "At Night Market, the Thai restaurant in Silver Lake. Everything we ate was incredible."

5. As there's a lot of talk about an upcoming recession, what are the things you would easily give up to save money?

   • Jen Romolini [54:47]: "I would give up my bone broth subscription. I would not give up dyeing my hair."
   • Kim France [55:25]: "I would not give up my hair. It’s a whole fucking thing."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Jen and Kim reflecting on their discussions, reiterating the importance of self-care, understanding personal limits, and supporting one another through the challenges of life over 40. Their honest and humorous dialogue provides both solace and practical advice for listeners navigating similar struggles.

Jen Romolini [57:05]: "If you like the show, please rate and review it across the platforms. It really helps people find the show."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jen Romolini [02:20]: "I'm never not working. There's like, literally I'm sitting in a fucking bathroom with my face toward a toilet. It's ridiculous."
• Kim France [04:37]: "Recognizing that you're doing that, this is how you built your life, may be a good first step toward adjusting that."
• Jen Romolini [09:46]: "We're all kind of running on empty because this is a crazy time to be alive."
• Jen Romolini [14:20]: "The plane first. She was clearly probably like, she was like an enfeebled 81."
• Kim France [36:08]: "What's amazing right now is how much is getting passed off as fact."
• Jen Romolini [43:30]: "I don't want to know that I can't afford it."
• Kim France [47:25]: "Do you and Jen ever fight? We don't really fight."

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Final Thoughts

"Runnin' On Empty" provides a profound exploration of the exhaustion many women face while juggling multiple roles and societal expectations. Through their engaging and honest conversations, Jen and Kim offer both empathy and actionable advice, reinforcing the podcast's mission to support women over 40 in navigating life's complexities.

Transcript

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[Kim France]

Hi and welcome to Everything Is Fine, a podcast for women over 40. We are your hosts. I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

And I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And you're Jen Romolini in a bathroom in a hotel in Denver.

[Jen Romolini]

I am. I have to tell you. Yeah, I am. The mic is on the toilet. My kid is in the other room with headphones on. I. I am having one of those days where I'm questioning all of my life choices. Like, really? I'm also sick. I'm in Denver. Like, you know, Denver. No. Shout out to everybody who lives in Denver and loves Denver. What I've seen of Denver, which admittedly is not very much. I'm just like, what am I doing here? I don't belong in Denver. But also, I'm just gonna rant for a second. I'm sorry. I really am. Like, I have set up my life in such a way that I don't ever have time off. Like, I'm exhausted today. I'm sick. I had to get up and update some bullshit. I have off from my day job. But because I am also a part of the creator economy, I have to feed the gaping maw of content or people get mad, they go away, you lose money. So it's just like I wrote a book about how overwork is terrible. I never am not working. I am never. There's like, literally I'm sitting in a fucking bathroom with my face toward a toilet. It's ridiculous.

[Kim France]

The cobbler's children have no shoes.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, I know, I know. I mean, I don't want to bitch, but I'm so lucky. But like, I've been taught when people like, well, what's the, what's the secret? What's the trick? How do you have a rewarding creative life and also make money? And you know, and, and it's like you work all the time. That's it.

[Unknown]

That's.

[Jen Romolini]

That's unless you're generational wealth and you have like, unless you're wealthy, I don't know how else you figure it out. Like, because nothing pays enough that is going to allow you any kind of free freedom and balance. No full time job pays enough that's going to create balance in your life. Not one. Right. Unless, you know, and then you have to supplement that job that doesn't pay enough. And then also you want to have some creative fulfillment and also you want to show up for your family and also you want to like catch up on savings and also the market is tanking and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's just a, it's a very. It's almost as if capitalism is collapsing.

[Kim France]

I know, I know. But the thing is, I understand the time constraints, but I think that recognizing that you're doing that, this is how you built your life, may be a good first step toward adjusting that.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, it's true. My life right now just requires a lot of energy. And if I don't have the level of energy I normally have, if I don't exist on like that 4, you know that 4 split screen that they have in hotels that's showing like four different shows at the fucking same time. And you're like, oh, maybe I'll watch golf. Maybe I'll watch Drew Barrymore. Maybe I'll. You know, if I'm not existing at that high level of functioning, then things sort of collapse and that's not sustainable. And you're right, I do need to start thinking about what that looks like longer term. Because I'm not old, but, you know, I'm not going to have this level of energy I sustain in even like, you know, five, seven years.

[Kim France]

Yeah. I mean, but part of why your life is that way is because, is what makes you great. Like, you're in Denver today because you're doing something really, really, really fucking nice for your kid. Really fucking nice that a lot of parents wouldn't do.

[Jen Romolini]

It's true. It's true. I did take us on, like, I did take us on like a sojourn to go to the south park restaurant. And I managed reservations for two nights. We are going tonight and tomorrow night.

[Kim France]

Amazing.

[Jen Romolini]

And last night, I have to say, we went to the oldest restaurant in all of Denver. It's called Buckhorn Exchange. It is the. One of the best places I've ever seen in my life. I mean, really, they only serve, like, game. Charlotte was like, elk. You can eat elk?

[Kim France]

That's a good question.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly. No. And so you walk in and it's just like taxidermied heads. It's just, it's heads everywhere. Like, it's crazy. And also it's been there since the 1800s. And then there's a picture of like, Teddy Roosevelt and it's exactly what you like. Some of these things can feel contrived, but this was like, exactly what you wanted it to feel like, you know, and we, we just dorked out taking so many pictures of like, Charlotte, buy a stuffed bear.

[Kim France]

But those places are great. And there are so few of them left.

[Jen Romolini]

There's so few of them left. And also, it's just so interesting to be in another part of the country. The people sitting next to us, literally, it could not have been more on the nose. The table sitting next to us was clearly a group of co workers and they were all talking about things they shot. No, really, by hand to God. One guy was like, yeah, I just shot a raccoon rabbit. I shot. And then somebody else was like, yeah, I shot my friend's roost. I was like, okay, this is terrible. I know, I know. It's so fucking crazy. It was so crazy. It was so crazy. Colorado so far. My report is a lot of white people.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I think there are a lot of white people in Colorado.

[Jen Romolini]

But, you know, I also did that thing. I'm sorry, I'm, like, out of it. I also did that thing where you're like, this hotel will be fine. Oh, no, I'm, like, staying in it, and it is fine. I'm staying in a Hilton Garden Inn, and it is fine. It's like a perfectly fine hotel. But even Charlotte, who doesn't stay in, like, the nicest hotels but, like, stays in a bunk bed room in the ace, was like, I don't know about this hotel. I don't know, like, why is this hotel like this? And I was like, you stayed in a bunk bedroom last time. That was like, you know, five by seven. And Charlotte was like, but that was a homie. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, God. Anyway, that's how I am. How are you?

[Kim France]

Well, I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm not great. I'm not great. I'm not bad. But I've been a little down. I've been a little down. I bought one of those sad boxes.

[Jen Romolini]

You bought a sad box? Good, good.

[Kim France]

I'm really, really, really trying not to buy from Amazon anymore, but I did order the sad box from Amazon and it arrived within 24 hours.

[Jen Romolini]

That's amazing.

[Kim France]

And I've used it every day for 10 minutes, like you're supposed to. Okay, so far, no. No big change. So far. So far, nothing. But we'll see. I'm going to keep it up. But no, I'm okay. But you know what I did do last week? I had my voice lesson.

[Jen Romolini]

How did it go?

[Kim France]

It was great. The teacher's super nice, you know, super unintimidating. He understands I can't sing at all. He's like, we're going to learn noises before we're going to sing.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

Which is really good.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. What's that mean?

[Kim France]

That means, like, me, me, me, me.

[Jen Romolini]

Me, me, me, me, me. Okay.

[Kim France]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like that.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay. All right. All right. That sounds. That sounds promising.

[Kim France]

I found it highly pleasant.

[Jen Romolini]

Good, good. I do feel like it's just, like, pleasure grabs right now. Like, that's all you can have. Because you know what? We're all kind of running on empty. It's like, this is collective. This isn't just me and my cold in Denver and overwork and you and the seasonal depression. It's that we're running on empty because this is a crazy time to be alive.

[Kim France]

It really is. And as long as we're cranky, can we talk about the ladies who went to space?

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. I am so. I am so. I'm so angry about this that I made myself laugh last night. I was like, I'm so. Like, I feel humiliated for women. I feel embarrassed for all of those women, first of all. And fucking Katy Perry. That Katy Perry.

[Kim France]

What a piece of shit.

[Jen Romolini]

Talking about your glam insist space. And we put the ass in astronaut. Like, please.

[Kim France]

Well, you know what my friend said? My friend Jen was like, yeah. The minute I heard he was sending his. His. His fiance up in space, I thought, well, he figured out a way to get rid of her.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. No. I mean, look, talking about this can easily, like, teeter into misogyny, which I'm acutely aware of. And that's why it's such a. That's why it's such a fucked setup, because it's not feminist in any way.

[Kim France]

No, it really isn't.

[Jen Romolini]

It is, in fact, the worst white feminism. I mean, I don't care that Gayle King was there. It is, in fact, the worst version of, like, rich white feminism I've ever seen. The idea that, like, take up space. Are you fucking kidding me?

[Kim France]

No.

[Jen Romolini]

What? What was anyone thinking? Please tell me. What do you think they were thinking?

[Kim France]

I think they were thinking it was gonna be a really amazing thing. I also think that all the billionaires have decided that Earth is gonna be uninhabitable soon. So that's what all this space shit is about. It's gonna be like that movie Don't Look Up. They're gonna go try to live on another planet. I don't really think that, but I do kind of suspect that.

[Jen Romolini]

Well, I mean. Well, I think they certainly have bunkers. We don't even understand the literal depths of their bunkers. Like, we have no comprehension of what they have planned for the apocalypse. But how about the fact? Before we get off this, we just need to talk about the fact. Well, two things. What is Gayle King doing? Gayle King has more sense than the rest of these, Jordan.

[Kim France]

And can I tell you, I was about to say, the only one who really disappointed me was Gayle King.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

Like, Lauren Sanchez is trash. Katy Perry is trash. But Gayle King, I think, is like, I like Gayle King.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, same. And she's smart.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

What is she doing? What is she doing on the dick rocket?

[Kim France]

I know.

[Jen Romolini]

Did you see it? Could it have been more phallic?

[Kim France]

I know. Well, they start out kind of phallic, and then if you even make the slightest effort to make them that way, then they're super phallic.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That was so. It's just. We live in the dumbest timeline. We just. We live in. We live in a. We live in, like, a satirical movie. Like, I can't believe the things that are happening day by day. And also, J.D. vance. What a twat. What a. Just a journey.

[Kim France]

Oh, what did he do now?

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, he just, like, he fumbled. They had, like, some sports team in the White House, and he went to, like, hold up their trophy, you know, like, all triumphant, and he, like, broke it and dropped it. He's such a dork.

[Kim France]

I know. He's such a dork.

[Jen Romolini]

There. That's. That's the worst part of all of this. That these, like. I mean, no, there's so many worst parts. There's. There's no worst part. There's, like, I could name 50 worst parts and not even be close to done. But one of the worst parts is that these guys are such, like, losers and dorks. They're the guys that, like, if they hit on you in college, you would have been like, oh, gosh, no.

[Kim France]

And, like, never.

[Jen Romolini]

Like, if Elon Musk had, like, asked you out, like, when you were, like, you know, 22, you would have been like, you've met him in a bar. You'd be like, oh, no, it's totally true.

[Kim France]

Elon Musk. Especially J.D.

[Jen Romolini]

Vance as well.

[Kim France]

Yes.

[Jen Romolini]

With his, like, eyeliner in the waterline. Like, get the fuck out of here.

[Kim France]

So weird.

[Jen Romolini]

So weird.

[Kim France]

I don't know.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, I don't know either. I don't know. I don't know. Like, is AI gonna find this podcast, find that we're talking shit about them, and deport us? Like, what is gonna happen? I know.

[Kim France]

Are we gonna be on the enemies list? I thought about that recently because I was reading about how they're. You know, what's going on with Anne. Helen Peterson is really. You know, they're, like, disappearing her on Facebook.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, really?

[Kim France]

Yeah. And they're keeping lists. They're starting lists again. Just, like, fucking McCarthyism.

[Jen Romolini]

It's not good. It's not. Not good. And you know what's weird is that, you know, they're in every conversation because AI is starting to show up in comments sections. Like, there's AI in our Facebook comment section today. I was like, what is that? What. What is that weird thing that has just entered the chat and it's AI, like, offering help.

[Kim France]

Really?

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes. I mean, unless I hallucinated it. I am kind of sexy, so I could have hallucinated it. But no, I think that AI is everywhere. I think it's trolling everything. I was watching this. Sometimes I watch sex workers on TikTok and on Reels. I think they're really interesting and I think they have interesting lives. So sometimes I'll just watch a series of oh, Get Ready with Me, and they're talking about their clients and whatever. And this woman was saying that she has a sex. She has a site, you know, that is, you know, for sex work. It offers her services. And I guess she's in some part of Australia where it's. It's legal, where sex work is legal. Anyway, she was saying that men reached out to her sometimes and call her mommy, you know, and she's like, I don't like that. It's kind of gross to me. But I understand that. It's not actually about me being. It's not actually about a mommy. It's like, know it's a fantasy or whatever. They want a nurturing figure. But because AI trolls all of these sites looking for sex offenders, if somebody says mommy in her comments, oh, wow. The. Her site gets shut down. So she has to delete those comments immediately and shut down that client.

[Kim France]

Wow.

[Jen Romolini]

So, I mean, it's just like, what's happening? I just feel crazy. Somebody said. Somebody said somewhere, I think in the comments on our Facebook group, somebody said they feel like it's the pandemic, except we're walking around.

[Kim France]

That's wild. That's really. Yeah, it is a little bit. It's like we all just got slapped, you know, and we've got those, like, you know in a cartoon how you'd have, like, bubbles around your head.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

We're all walking around like that a little bit.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes, yes. We are all walking around like we're in a daze because we're like, it's not funny. It's horrible. It's just so horrible. I don't know what to do. It's so horrible.

[Kim France]

Well, it's how people get through bad times. It's one of the coping mechanisms in a bad time. It's what happens when you're in shock. You just move into a daze.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. I mean, I've been thinking, you know, I need to find some kind of like, higher power, sort of like some other frequency to operate on. Like, I need to, I don't know, start meditating two hours a day. Something I Need something to help me regulate during this time because it's too scary and too sad.

[Kim France]

Yep.

[Jen Romolini]

Anyway, on that note, we might do a short episode today because I'm literally sitting on a pillow on a bathroom floor. But do you have a list of things that don't suck this week?

[Kim France]

Well, one. Okay. One of them is what I like to call going on manual.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

And that's when like, things suck. Like they suck right now. And all I want to do is lay on the sofa and watch the crown maybe. And I'm like, okay, I gotta go on manual because I don't want to do anything right now. So, yeah, I'm gonna go deposit some checks at the bank and I'm going to go like pick up my shit at the dry cleaner and then I'm going to sit down and write for an hour. You know, just making myself. Making myself do the shit that isn't coming naturally.

[Jen Romolini]

I think that that's. I think that's good just going on manual because actually that does. It takes your mind off things. You're just like, okay, well now I'm in the rhythm of another thing. I do think yourself. Even though I was just bitching and bemoaning being too. I do think making a busyness and just like going through the paces of things does help.

[Kim France]

Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

I am reading a really, really, really, really good book and I'm so excited about it. It was recommended to me by Lynn Stegerstrong, who by the way has a book out that came out next week. I want to get her on. I haven't read it yet because I'm waiting to get it, but then I was going to buy it, but then it's supposed to come in the mail. Whatever. She is a. Lynn has a new book out called the Float Test, which I want to keep recommending because I think Lynn is magical. But I'm reading a book that's amazing. It's called Will and Testament by. Okay, I'm going to get this wrong, but I think it's Vigdis Jort. It's a. I'm going to hold it up to you.

[Kim France]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

I think it's Jord. I think. But it's a Norwegian writer and it came out a couple of years ago. It came out in 2019 and it's so good. It immediately grabbed me and it was immediately deep. It was immediately interesting. And it's about an older woman. I don't know how old she is yet, but an older woman, probably in her 50s or maybe even 60s, having to go back and deal with some childhood shit because her siblings are all in, like, an argument, her parents are close to dying, and it's really, really great. And the author, who had been a writer her whole life, you know, she wasn't unknown, but had real success in her 60s. I think this book came out when she was 60, which proves my theory that novelists get better as they get older, which is the thing I'm banking on. But the book is so, so good, and it's really been helping me escape because also, it's nice to read a book that's not set in America anyway. It's when you're having. I think that this is something that I would say that doesn't suck right now. When we're in a moment where we're all grappling with what it is to be an American, and it feels kind of gross being in America. It's kind of nice to be in a book or a movie that's based somewhere else.

[Kim France]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes. And I have another book recommendation, which I talked about on my substack last week, but Ali Liebogot's the Summer of Dead Birds. I always forget about this book, and then when I remember it, I feel so happy. It's about. It's about grief and death and divorce, but. And it's like a long poem or like a. I don't know, a novel in verse, I think they call it. Anyway, it's really short, and it's really worth getting, and it's a little bit hard to get, but it's called the Summer of Dead Birds by Ali Liebogot, and it's great.

[Kim France]

Well, I'm reading the Facebook book that you told me to read.

[Jen Romolini]

It's great, right?

[Kim France]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Jen Romolini]

You know what I couldn't get into that I really tried really hard, and I couldn't finish was the Ione sky book. I just couldn't finish it. I don't know why, really.

[Kim France]

And I just flew right through that book. It just delighted me.

[Jen Romolini]

I think I got stuck sometimes in those books. I get stuck on the childhood, and I'm bored. I'm just like, I don't care.

[Kim France]

Oh, I often skip the childhood.

[Jen Romolini]

That's probably what I should do. I should probably go back and skip the childhood because I'm like, I know you have to tell this origin story, but, like, I don't know. It doesn't matter.

[Kim France]

No, I skip, like, the. The origin story in biographies all the time. Like when the grandparents came over from wherever I know it's important. I know it creates context. I just skip right over it with the grandparents.

[Jen Romolini]

You just said it.

[Kim France]

I barely care about the parents.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly. The grandparents. I'm like, way abridged, way too far.

[Kim France]

I know. Oh, I'll tell you what doesn't suck. And I mentioned her. The Tina Brown substack doesn't suck. Oh, she has a new substack and she's doing a lot of substack lives with interesting people.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, cool.

[Kim France]

Yeah, it doesn't suck.

[Jen Romolini]

I have been following. I haven't been following any accounts. Instagram has been serving me up Italian street style.

[Kim France]

Really?

[Jen Romolini]

I wish I knew one account. But Italian women of all ages look so amazing. And it's been making me think, you know what? I want to wear shorter skirts again. They just look so good on these old women. I'm like, Jesus Christ, why have I given up on this? Why did I just decide no more? Yeah, it's like a couple of things. I was thinking about aging this week. I was thinking one, because I haven't feeling bad about my neck. And I was thinking, this is the youngest my neck's ever going to look. Why am I covering it up? Why have I been covering up for 10 years? Like, this is the youngest it's ever going to look. And I was thinking that about my legs too. Like, this is the youngest my legs are going to look. And I'm like, I'm like, you know, basically like a sister wife right now. And like, I don't have to be. But then, wait, this happened. This is not a thing that doesn't suck. This is the thing that's weird. I was in the grocery store the other day and there was a woman who I saw in profile and she had like the most amazing jawline and neck, right? She was walking like super slow and her hair was like, you know, not gray and she was walking super slow. And like, I was looking at her, I was like, what's going on? And then I really clocked her and I was like, oh, this is like a 75, 80, 85 year old woman. I can't place her age, but she is frail. But she's had so much plastic surgery that I have no sense of how old she is. This is the weirdest thing in the world. It was so strange because she had an immaculate jaw and neck and like the jaw and neck of like a 30 year old. But she was clearly probably like, she was like an enfeebled 81.

[Kim France]

Well, I know what this is about. What she was A ghost.

[Jen Romolini]

She was not a ghost. She was a living, breathing lady, way older lady, like, maybe like with dementia, like, wandering. She was not a ghost. She was not a ghost. But that's hilarious. She was. No, because this is the problem with plastic surgery. It's like at a certain point it's like you need to look old so people have context for you so you.

[Kim France]

Can get on the plane first.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, the plane first. So that like, I had no context for her. And you don't realize how much like, context clues of like, visual context clues mean to, like, how much like, she appeared confused. She was really wandering the aisles. Like, and this is not me being, like ages. Like, I was watching this person look confused. She was kind of like drifting the wrong way. Like, if she looked like an older woman, I would have understood immediately that this person needed some support.

[Kim France]

Right.

[Jen Romolini]

Anyway, it's another reason to not get radical plastic surgery. Because your age doesn't match your face.

[Kim France]

No. And another reason, I have to say, to not wait too long to have it if you want to have it. Right? Because if you wait too long, then it doesn't look good.

[Jen Romolini]

Well, it looks crazy. It looks crazy. Like. Yes, it does. It does. Being at that, like, you know, not even Jane, even Jane Fonda looks like she had her work done. You know, she. She looks, she still looks like a little bit older. You know what I mean? This was like, this was like really good work. But, like, not, not appropriate, right?

[Kim France]

It sounds very alarming.

[Jen Romolini]

It was alarming. It was like. It was, it was like everything feels right now like we've just entered a different, a different dimension.

[Kim France]

We have, we have.

[Jen Romolini]

And we're just supposed to be like, yeah, let me get a haircut.

[Kim France]

I know, I know.

[Jen Romolini]

Let's take a quick break from some ads.

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[Jen Romolini]

And we're back. You know, wait, how are you getting off Amazon? Because I also want to get off Amazon, but I feel like I lean on it way too much and I want to be off it. What are you doing? How are you getting everything?

[Kim France]

Well, I have to say that I'm not getting everything. Like I'm just not ordering the shit I need. Because I also, if I'm going to not order from Amazon, then I got to not order from Target, I'm not gonna order from Walmart.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

So like I've been like, so I had, I have like a month, I say I'm trying to stay off Amazon. I have like a month of not ordering Amazon or I'll have like a month of not ordering on Amazon and then I'll break down and order all the shit I need. But I did stop using Amazon on the, on the sub stack as a link.

[Jen Romolini]

Wow. Okay.

[Kim France]

I entirely stopped doing that, which was, you know, not too hard. But in my personal life I'm finding it a little trickier, I have to say.

[Jen Romolini]

Well, I mean look, I, I know something about like shoppers habits, right? And I will tell you that when I recommend things for the most part at my job, underneath the thing, it's like an Amazon Amazon link and like two other links to other retailers and nobody ever shops the other retailers.

[Kim France]

Right?

[Jen Romolini]

Like that's, that's the thing. And so like if you work for like a commerce site, they're like, well put in the link that people are going to use the most because people are still addicted to the convenience of Amazon. So it's, it will be interesting to see, you know, as we all collectively hate Bezos more and more and see the damage of Amazon and tariffs and everything else. Like where are we going to start shopping or are we just going to let go of this high level of convenience and like, you know, walk out our doors or get in a car and buy somewhere else? I don't know.

[Kim France]

Yeah, I don't know either. Are we going to give in? You know, I feel like I've given in. I mean and I, you know, I definitely on the sub stack it means a loss of revenue for sure. Because the other thing about the way people shop on Amazon is that you get them to Amazon and then they do their shopping, you know. So you get the commission from all that too.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, yeah. So it's a, I mean we're in a thicket here. We're really in something where everything's, we're all sort of codependent on this.

[Kim France]

I mean, I feel the same way, I feel the same way about Facebook and Instagram.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, I mean 100%. Yes.

[Kim France]

Right, 100%. It's the same exact thing.

[Jen Romolini]

No, when I was locked out of Instagram last year for like a couple of days, I was locked out, they locked my account cause they had like some glitch where they were locking people out. And I was like in the middle of like active book promotion and it was dark. It was like, I need this, I need this tool to, to promote these events. I need this tool to like, there's. How else do I do this?

[Kim France]

Right?

[Jen Romolini]

You know how? I mean, like, if I had a different life, like, my sister, who's a scientist, is not on social media at all. She's like, on social media maybe once a month, she's like, I find it. She was like, I think it like numbs my brain. And then she said something really interesting to me. She was like, I don't wanna know you on Instagram. She was like, that's the you that, that's your public Persona. She was like, I don't. That's not. Like if my brother or somebody says something to her, like, did you see what Jen put on Instagram? My sister's like, no. Cause I don't fucking look at it. Because that's not my relationship with her, you know? So like, my sister has this very healthy relationship with social media and it's because she doesn't need it. Cause her, her work is in a classroom, it's in, you know, conferences or it's in the field. It's not necessary to her life in any way. And so she's able to break that addiction. But that's not the case for people who create things.

[Kim France]

No, you need it. You need it, you need it.

[Jen Romolini]

Which seems absurd.

[Kim France]

I mean, if you think about how we were living 30 years ago, even 20 years ago, I mean, it seems mind bending. I've been thinking so much about the time, right, when people started getting cell phones, but not everybody had one.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kim France]

I mean, I've said this before. Just like if you told somebody, you'd be on the corner of 5th and 12th at, you know, 10:00 in the morning, you would be there, right?

[Jen Romolini]

But also curation, right? Like how we learned about books, books and music and movies. And I don't know if like having like a free press was like a lot, you know, having a lot of publications and having like a lot of places you could go to, to source those things was better or worse than Instagram, but I will say that because everything is tied to money now because everybody on Instagram is nothing you see is real. Like these health influencers who are pushing, you know, water filters. I saw something the other saw something actually on our Facebook group where somebody was like, I can't use this kind of sunscreen because it will hormone disruption. But if you actually talk to a doctor? Because I've talked to lots of doctors about sunscreen. They're like, the amount of those ingredients in sunscreen is not enough to disrupt hormones. But all these wellness influencers are saying it is because they have a deal with Sunscreen X that they're trying to sell and get money off. The connection of commerce and social media has gotten really. Everybody's trying to make you buy something. And I've been following all these health and wellness people and I'm like, they're cherry picking stats and they're pushing information. That's not right. If you talk to actual medical experts or scientists about it. No.

[Kim France]

And things. What's amazing right now is how much is getting passed off as fact.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, yes. But also. Yeah. How much. We just, you know, how much is hard for us to grapple with the idea that, like, illness just kind of happens and it's probably not from your pan, you know? Yeah, but, yeah, I know. I think about that time too. I think it was probably a better time to be alive.

[Kim France]

I mean, it's so hard for me to really take it all apart, you know, how much was it, you know, because I was young, you know, and when I think about what my life was like when I was in my, you know, my mid-30s, so, or early-30s when I, you know, 94, 95. And like, I was, I had as much, you know, as many struggles with unhappiness and all of that as I do now. It's not like, you know, I can't, I can't think back on that time accurately without acknowledging that.

[Jen Romolini]

I know, I know. I don't know. Yes, Right. So what part of this is Andy Rooney? What part of this is us, Andy Rooney? It's always that. It's always like, what part is that? I mean, because, you know, technology's done a lot of good, but you start reading that Facebook group or Facebook book and you're like, oh, shit.

[Kim France]

No, it's kind of crazy. It's kind of crazy. It's like, this is such a dumb analogy. But like when Tom Hanks goes to the in big, when he goes to the machine and he turns big, it's like all these little dorks turn big and they don't know what they're doing and they keep dropping shit and ruining shit and, you know, threatening shit.

[Jen Romolini]

No, and the thing is, like, I was reading something like the Atlantic is doing some really good journalism right now. I don't know. And that's the other thing. I never, I'm like, wait, are we. Did we cancel that? Is this bad? Are those. Is that journalist bad? I can't remember.

[Kim France]

Is this a. Oh, I should subscribe to the Atlantic because you're not the only person to say that recently.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah, they're doing some really good journalism. And one thing I read was that there's so much more corruption in the private sector than there is in the government. Because, like, you can't even take somebody out for, like, a sandwich in the government. Like, everything is monitored. Like, there's. It's. So the idea that, like, Elon Musk is going to come and cut out all this corruption is just. It's just not really true. Like, it's not. There's just not that much. I mean, there's corruption in, like, you know, funding and like, all of those kinds of things, but in actual, like, government organizations, there's not that level of.

[Kim France]

No, it's not. It's more benevolent than that, I think.

[Jen Romolini]

But it's also crazy when you really think about it. Like, if you, if you really like, like scan up, like, higher, you're just like, okay, wait, what's happening here? Wait, they want us all to work in factories. What?

[Kim France]

I know, like, that that's what they want.

[Jen Romolini]

Like, In Florida, like, 14 year olds can start working in factories, like, till midnight. Like, what are we doing? Does nobody else remember history? Do these fucks want to work in a factory? I don't want to work in a factory. They want us to be uneducated and they want us to work in factories.

[Kim France]

Yeah, that's what. Yeah, that is what they want. I will say one encouraging thing.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

I spoke to a friend this week who has an older brother who has been a pretty prominent Republican politician who's gone along, you know, and who told her the feeling among all the people I know is horror right now. And she said back to him, why don't you go on Fox News and say that? You know, But I was at least encouraged that there are people in that camp who are mortified and upset by what's going on. I think they could all stay silent. I think it's, you know, it's been astonishing to see how silenced the Republican Party has allowed themselves to become by him. Ugh, I hate talking like this. I don't know why I'm going on like this.

[Jen Romolini]

I know, I hate it, too. But, like, it just gets worse and worse. Like, the more we talk, the more I'm remembering. Because that's one of the nice things about being in menopause. Like, I Forget half of everything. But, like, I'm thinking about Bill Maher going to the White House and being like, you know, he's not that bad. It was actually. He was actually charming. Like, I'll just tell you, he's not as crazy as we all think.

[Kim France]

I love your Bill Maher.

[Jen Romolini]

Fucking loser dick. Hey.

[Kim France]

Hey. Let's talk about something else. Isn't my shirt good?

[Jen Romolini]

Your shirt is good. What's your shirt?

[Kim France]

I wanted. I don't know why I'm talking about it, actually. Because it's a $375 shirt.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, fuck off.

[Kim France]

It's a $375 shirt. Do you know how long it's been since I've spent that much on a shirt?

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, my God. Three. Okay, so you're wearing a 400 shirt. Who. Who makes it? Is it. Was it made of gold?

[Kim France]

It's not made of gold. It's by a brand called twp.

[Jen Romolini]

Okay.

[Kim France]

They gifted me. They sent me one of their shirts, and I was like, this is the finest cotton I have ever felt. The fit is immaculate. Like, it's crisp. It's perfect. It was so good. And then I went on their website, and I was like, I saw this one, which is, like, the perfect. It's like blue and brown stripes and listeners. They just combine really nicely. And I was like, I sort of stalked that, you know, that shirt for, like, a few weeks, and then I got it.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean, that's what happens. And the thing is, the thing is about recommending things, because I write a lot of best lists, right? And I'm always like, well, the best is usually the thing that's $300, $500. I mean, even in skincare, it's not always the case, but it's often the case that the best is $200. And I don't want to recommend a $200. Who's spending $200 to slap on your face, you know? But it's like, it puts you in this kind of journalistic quandary because it's like, this is actually the best. Sorry.

[Kim France]

This is actually the best. It is. This is, like, a quality shirt. Will it have been worth it when I stain it? Like, I do everything, you know, Will it. Will it have been worth it when, like, I lose a button and I didn't save the extra buttons? You know, it's hard to say, but I did feel a little gross about it. But, yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

It's a good shirt, though. It's a good shirt. It's a good shirt.

[Kim France]

It is. And I think, you know, I used to spend lots more on clothes than I do now, but every once in a while, every once in a while, I don't think it's the worst thing.

[Jen Romolini]

Well, I mean, look, actually, the whole theme of this show, what would actually be ideal, is if each of us bought, like, two things a year that were really good, you know, instead of fast fashion, instead of all of the other decisions we make. I mean, but again, this is such an elitist conversation because. And this is the thing. I don't even like knowing. I don't like knowing about things being the best because, like, I saw the Strategist. I don't know. Or maybe it was wirecutter. Somebody tested a $45,000 mattress or something.

[Kim France]

Oh, I saw that. Yeah.

[Jen Romolini]

And it's like, oh, bad news. It actually is great. It's like, I don't want to know that. Like, I don't. Like I always say, brad Pitt's living room, I know, is the nicest place in the world. It smells the best. Every surface you touch is amazing. I don't need to know that the best exists because I can't afford it.

[Kim France]

I know, I know. I agree. I've been getting reels ever since we took our vacation to Mexico. I've been getting vacation reels from, like, resorts I could never afford. But it's so tempting to, you know, look at it. But it's like, yeah, I don't need to know that I could stay in a villa with a private pool.

[Jen Romolini]

No, you don't need to know that. And, like, my kid didn't even need to know that the Ace Hotel is homey Compared to what? Hilton Garden Inn. You know, we are Hilton Garden in class. And, like, I can pretend we're a different class or I can irresponsibly, like, go beyond our budget and be a different class. And sometimes there's a splurge that's okay, but, like, you know, it's like living within your means. Like, I remember I had this Italian author friend, and she. She told me that in Italy, everybody, there's no credit. Like, people just pay for everything in cash. Like, you never get. Like, you just pay for things in cash. Like, we had. We had lunch. She had cash. She was like, I don't understand how Americans just get in tens of thousand dollars of debt. She was like, what? How do you think that you can buy something that you can't afford? And I was like, beats the fuck out of me.

[Kim France]

But they figured out how. How to make us feel that way.

[Jen Romolini]

Exactly, exactly. I bought last night. I had insomnia. You know that, that influencer with the red hair, she's so pretty. To her, like her handle is like end bloom and she like handles like. She like photographs older women. But she herself is like in her 50s. But it's like perfectly beautiful. Makeup is great, whatever. Anyway, she has a shop somehow. And I ordered this sundress at like three in the morning. I was scanning and I was like, oh, I would look great in that. And it was not that much money. I have no idea. I don't even know because it was in euros and I didn't even fucking check. But it was like €70. So I was like, it can't be that much like. And. But I woke up this morning like almost like a shopping hangover. I was like, what did I do? Why did I buy a dress I probably don't need? Like, you know what I mean? Like what am I doing? But it is, it's something has. We're all addicted to shopping a little bit.

[Kim France]

I mean, that's kind of my brand.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean. Yeah. And since I've been adjacent to you, it's been mine too. My foundational career education is in selling shit to people.

[Kim France]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[Jen Romolini]

But also because of the ageist society, we all have to look cute. It's fucked up.

[Kim France]

Do you think we have to look cute because it's an ageist society or do you think we have to look cute because we've always wanted to look cute?

[Jen Romolini]

I think both. And I think it depends on what you're doing. Like again, I'll go back to my sister who is living a happier life than I am, living in so many ways or less angsty life. Right. In science, you know, she let her hair go gray. Like the older she looks, the better. Like she looks more experienced, you know, I mean she still has cute clothes, but like it's just different. It's not a youth obsessed industry.

[Kim France]

Imagine.

[Jen Romolini]

Right, exactly. All right, we should. I'm getting uncomfortable on the floor. We should. On the bathroom floor. Go figure. We should answer a couple of listener questions. I'm going to try to find them without knocking this screen off.

[Kim France]

Would you want me to find them? Yes.

[Jen Romolini]

Do you want to read them? Oh my God. I'm going to make you read them this week.

[Kim France]

Okay, here's a good one.

[Jen Romolini]

Go ahead.

[Kim France]

Do you and Jen ever fight? If so, what was your last fight about and how did it resolve? If not, why do you think you don't?

[Jen Romolini]

I don't Think we fight.

[Kim France]

We don't really fight.

[Jen Romolini]

We don't really fight. I think we really have. I think we have a lot of patience for each other. I think we have a lot. I mean, this from my perspective. I feel like you have a lot of patience, compassion, and understanding for me. I don't know. I don't feel like we fight. I think we just really understand each other. So we don't fight. Like, things that could create friction between us. The other person's just like, I don't give a shit.

[Kim France]

I think there's an I don't give a shit. And I think there's also often a like, oh, I get it.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes.

[Kim France]

Right, right. I don't get that mad at you because all of anything that you do that could be irritating is so within the realm of something I could do same.

[Jen Romolini]

I think we really understand each other, and I also think that we understand, like, when to give each other space. Like, I just think that we ultimately, for me, I don't want to fight with you because I love you and our friendship is too important to me. I just don't want it. I don't want that conflict with you because the connection to you is too important to me.

[Kim France]

Yep, I agree. I feel the same way. And that makes me happy when you say that.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, good. Oh, good. Yeah, I love you. All right, next. Next question. Okay.

[Kim France]

Okay, here's an interesting question. Is jealousy ever a good thing? Has jealousy ever worked in your favor or for your benefit?

[Jen Romolini]

I think jealousy is amazing. I mean, I think jealousy. Not in relationships, but I think professional jealousy is a real guiding force to what you really want. Often, you know, if you're, like, really just dysregulatedly jealous over something, it often is because it's worth examining, because it often means, oh, I wish. I wish I could do something like that. Or there's something along the lines of telling you that you want something else for yourself.

[Kim France]

That's interesting. And I agree with what you said. I feel like there's a kind of jealousy I got over. Yeah, I think there's a kind of jealousy I definitely had that I think was pretty corrosive. But I agree with you. I think jealousy can be motivating.

[Jen Romolini]

Not in relationships.

[Kim France]

No, not in relationships.

[Jen Romolini]

Jealousy is. Is a disaster.

[Kim France]

Jealousy in relationships. I also feel like. And I speak like, you know, of myself as well here. Immature. It's immature.

[Jen Romolini]

It indicates a lack of, like, self confidence that winds up being problematic in a relationship. And it's projecting all kinds of, like, insecurity onto Somebody else and other situations, and ultimately, you can control people. You know, that's just. That's just what it is. But in. But professional jealousy, I have found, has been. Has really driven me in a lot of good ways. I mean, although. Here I am. Here I am living the dream.

[Kim France]

You are living. You are living the dream.

[Jen Romolini]

I am. I am. I am. Kind of. All right, next question.

[Kim France]

What was the last fib you told and to whom?

[Jen Romolini]

I think that my kid has headphones on so I can say this. It definitely was to my. It definitely was to my kid about something. I can't think about what. I don't. I can't remember exactly what. Maybe how many drinks I had. Like, who knows? Like, something like that. Like, that was definitely a fib. Although I've also told a fib recently, I think, to my husband about he didn't look good in something, and I told him he did because I didn't feel like dealing with it.

[Kim France]

That's funny.

[Jen Romolini]

He was like, do these pants look okay? I was like, yeah, they look good. They look fine. They did not. Narrator. They did not look fine.

[Kim France]

Oh, my God. I think I probably fit. Paul probably said, did you take edibles today? And I probably said, no.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. The edible conversation is a big fiber.

[Kim France]

It is. Because you like to think you could just, like, pass it off. Like, you didn't take edibles.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, Exactly. All right, next question.

[Kim France]

What was the last great meal you ate?

[Jen Romolini]

The last great meal I ate was at Night Market, which is the Thai restaurant in Silver Lake with Christina Mueller. We had some. Some nights. You know, a restaurant you've been to a hundred times just has, like, the best night. And it was like, everything we ate was incredible. We had, like, the. Everything we ate was incredible. It was just a really good dinner with, like, a very nice wine. Like, it was just, like, a perfect start to finish.

[Kim France]

We. We went to that restaurant together.

[Jen Romolini]

We did. But I have learned since. Learned the spiciness level.

[Kim France]

I know we got the spiciness level all wrong that night.

[Jen Romolini]

All wrong. We all were dying.

[Kim France]

That was such a weird night.

[Jen Romolini]

It was a weird night.

[Kim France]

I don't know what my. You know, I'm. I'm not. It's a. I'm not such a food person. You know, I like food. I like food. But I'm not, like. You know, my idea of hell is a tasting menu.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, yeah. We've discussed.

[Kim France]

Right.

[Jen Romolini]

A foam. No, A foam.

[Kim France]

Right. It's all about, like, not wanting to be anywhere near a foam on my plate. But I Like, you know, I like going to Gage and Tolner in downtown Brooklyn, getting a seafood platter. We did that for my birthday. Seafood platter steak. I'm a simple girl.

[Jen Romolini]

Yeah. And sometimes it's really. I mean, I made those short ribs and that mushroom risotto a couple weeks ago and. Or a couple months ago at this point, and that was so delicious. Like, sometimes it's something I've cooked that I can't believe, and I'm like, wow, this is really good. You're just, like, happy that you. That you've made something. So Friday night, I made, like, an Italian feast. I just was like, oh, I have broccoli rabe and I have beans, and I have gnocchi, and I have stuff to make meatballs, and I have pasta. And I just, like, made like, five dishes. And my husband walked into the kitchen, he was like, what's happening? And I was like, well, I'm leaving. I had. We had all this food, and I just. And I. And it was a very, like, Italian grandma kind of situation. I just, like, placed down, like, six serving plates on the table.

[Kim France]

This loops right back to the beginning of the episode and you somehow finding yourself with no spare time.

[Jen Romolini]

No spare time. And also, like, you know, I just feel like I take care of a lot of people, and I feel like that's normal for women of our age. I feel like I take care of a lot of people, and I don't know that anybody takes care of me at that level or that I take care of myself at that level, which is a thing I'm really starting to grapple with.

[Kim France]

Right, Right.

[Jen Romolini]

I don't think Alex has ever made me a five course meal or even filled my water glass. Do you know what I mean? It's like, come on, man. But we also train people how to treat us. Okay, next question.

[Kim France]

Okay. As there's a lot of talk about an upcoming recession, what are the things you would easily give up to save money? And what are things that you'd never give up?

[Jen Romolini]

Bone broth.

[Kim France]

You'd never give up bone broth?

[Jen Romolini]

No, I would give up that. I have a lot of subscriptions. I would give up. I would give up my bone broth subscription. There's probably. There's a lot of subscriptions that are just like. Because I know this, because I had to cut down all of our money in the last couple of years, and then, you know, in the last year and we're making a little more money, I've been able to build some things up again. So there's, like, definitely, like, just things I don't need. I mean, clothes, you know, just think there's so many things I don't need that are just fun to buy. But I would not give up dyeing my hair.

[Kim France]

Yeah, my hair.

[Jen Romolini]

My hair. I don't give up. And also, I'm so shit at doing my nails. I wouldn't give up my nails.

[Kim France]

Well, I wouldn't give up my hair because my hair is a whole fucking thing. And I could not. I could not give it up. I have. I have no hair unless I wear the extra hair that I have purchased and had installed on my head.

[Jen Romolini]

I mean, if we have to. I dyed my hair myself during the pandemic. I could, but I'd really prefer not to.

[Kim France]

I would prefer to outsource all of my hair care.

[Jen Romolini]

Yes, same. And nail care.

[Kim France]

Yeah. Nails. I don't care. I would stop buying clothes. That would be easy. Yeah, I could, you know. Yeah. I have a thousand subscriptions I don't need.

[Jen Romolini]

Not eating out, not getting takeout, like, all of those things, you know? I mean, and it's funny because you see, lifestyle creep, I think, is what they're calling it. Like, I can see it because we do have a little bit of extra money right now. I'm saving a ton of money, but, like, so we're still living kind of lean, but I'm. I can see the. The creep. You know, you're like, oh, well, I'll just. Let's just. We'll start going out to dinner on Fridays. You know, you just start to see it. So I'm acutely aware of the lifestyle creep. So I can. I know exactly where I cut, but really, if I can avoid the hair care, I would like to do that.

[Kim France]

Yeah. Well, Jen, I think we did an episode.

[Jen Romolini]

Oh, yes, yes. And my. These old knees made it, man. Do you know I've been kneeling. I've been kneeling like it's church.

[Kim France]

I can't believe you've been kneeling this whole time. That's crazy.

[Jen Romolini]

I'm gonna take a picture. I'm gonna take a picture of this setup so that the listeners can know that I've been kneeling at the altar of the toilet, which. Oh, my God. All right, that's it. We're gonna wrap up here. Thanks for listening to Everything is Fine. We are your hosts. I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And I'm Kim France.

[Jen Romolini]

If you like the show, please rate and review it across the platforms. It really helps people find the show. It really makes a difference. If you want to support the production of the show and get show notes for today's episode and additional fashion and beauty recommendations and sometimes culture recs too. You can join our [e-mail] It's $3 a month to join and it helps us keep the lights on the show and pay our editor. If you want to find Kim for more fashion and style and beauty and all advice, you can find kimfrance substack.com for other things which we never know what they're going to be, you can find me at jenromalini.substack.com we are on Facebook with a robust and private Facebook group. We are on Instagram if podcast. The show is mixed and edited from wherever we record it every week and whatever quality the recording is by the wonderful Natalie Rivera. Natalie, you are a champ and we love you and we will be back next week.

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