We're in this together

Summary

Podcast Summary: Everything is Fine – Episode: "We're in this Together"

Released on November 11, 2024

Hosts: Jennifer Romolini and Kim France
Guest: Jen Bluestein

Everything is Fine is a podcast dedicated to women navigating life over 40, exploring the identity shifts and challenges of this unique life stage. In the episode titled "We're in this Together," hosts Jennifer Romolini and Kim France engage in a profound discussion with political consultant Jen Bluestein about the recent election results, their emotional aftermath, and the path forward for activism and engagement.

---

1. Emotional Aftermath of the Election

The episode opens with the hosts expressing their immediate emotional responses to the election outcomes. Kim France shares feeling overwhelmed and disoriented:

“I have a great guest for you guys today, Jen Bluestein... It feels like somebody had just punched me.”
— Kim France [02:19]

Jennifer Romolini echoes this sentiment, describing herself as both "very angry" and experiencing "a new kind of negative energy":

“I started to feel like a fire, like a deep anger... I feel that I was built to fight, and this is going to require a fight.”
— Jennifer Romolini [02:19]

These expressions set the tone for the episode, highlighting the intense emotional impact the election has had on the hosts and their guest.

2. Analyzing the Election Results

Jen Bluestein delves into the election outcomes, revealing a significant Republican victory that grants them control over the Senate, House, and White House—a rare trifecta. She breaks down voter demographics, noting unexpected support for Trump among various groups:

“White men voted for Trump 60%, white women voted 53% for Trump... Latino men voted for Trump 55% to 43%.”
— Jen Bluestein [08:16]

Bluestein emphasizes the troubling trend of the Democratic Party's declining support among non-college-educated voters, suggesting a potential realignment of the electorate that poses challenges for future Democratic campaigns.

3. The Importance of Local Engagement and Action

Transitioning from analysis to action, the discussion shifts towards the necessity of local engagement. Bluestein stresses that democracy thrives on participation beyond national elections:

“Democracy... is mostly run by volunteers. Library boards are volunteers, school boards are volunteers... Show up at those meetings.”
— Jen Bluestein [60:21]

Jennifer Romolini adds frustration over voter complacency, attributing election losses to a lack of consistent political engagement:

“A lot of what just happened was complacency. That's what I see in the people who didn't show up.”
— Jennifer Romolini [54:37]

4. Successes in Abortion Rights Ballot Initiatives

A significant portion of the episode highlights victories in abortion rights through ballot initiatives across various states. Bluestein outlines the successes and their implications:

“We won all of them, starting with Kansas... including conservative strongholds like Missouri... Abortion Access still received 5.8 million votes, more than DeSantis himself did in his last election.”
— Jen Bluestein [34:45]

These victories not only ensure continued access to abortion services in multiple states but also reduce the burden on neighboring states and enhance overall healthcare quality.

5. Challenges Ahead: Abortion Bans and Other Issues

Despite successes, the episode does not shy away from discussing the looming threats posed by potential federal abortion bans and the enforcement of restrictive laws like the Comstock Act. Bluestein warns of systemic challenges:

“Republicans will start enforcing the Comstock Act... prohibit people from buying abortion pills online.”
— Jen Bluestein [37:20]

She further elaborates on the strategies Republicans may employ to extend fetal personhood by leveraging the 14th Amendment, underscoring the urgency for continued advocacy and legislative resistance.

6. Strategies for Continued Activism

The conversation pivots to actionable strategies for listeners to remain engaged and effective in their activism. Bluestein advocates for a diversified approach, balancing time, talents, and resources:

“Find roles that work for you... engage with groups that feel the most comfortable to you.”
— Jen Bluestein [43:18]

She encourages supporting abortion funds, donating to local advocacy groups, and participating in both positive and negative accountability measures to influence legislators. Jennifer Romolini prompts listeners to overcome fatigue and actively participate in shaping policies:

“We can't go quietly. We have to participate.”
— Jennifer Romolini [56:51]

7. Building and Sustaining Coalitions

Addressing the need for broader coalitions, Romolini and Bluestein discuss the importance of inclusive engagement beyond traditional liberal spaces. Bluestein highlights the necessity of supporting a diverse range of voters and representatives to build a resilient opposition:

“A governing coalition is going to have some people who are more progressive and some people who are more centrist.”
— Jen Bluestein [61:44]

This approach aims to prevent the Democratic Party from becoming siloed and ensures a united front against policies detrimental to marginalized communities.

8. Conclusion: Resilience and Persistence

The episode concludes on a note of resilience, emphasizing the collective responsibility to sustain activism and uphold democratic values. Bluestein encapsulates the essence of the discussion with a call to action:

“Don't go quietly... Our voices matter in our own way.”
— Jen Bluestein [66:43]

Romolini reinforces the importance of continual participation and the power of shared stories in driving societal change:

“The outcome of this election did not change my values. Continuing to share what we think is the foundational piece.”
— Jennifer Romolini [67:00]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Resilience: Acknowledge and process the intense emotions following election results to channel them into productive activism.

• Voter Demographics: Understand the shifting voter landscapes and address the concerns of non-college-educated and working-class voters to rebuild Democratic support.

• Local Engagement: Prioritize participation in local governance and advocacy groups to influence policies from the grassroots level.

• Celebrate Successes: Recognize and build upon victories in areas like abortion rights to maintain momentum and inspire continued efforts.

• Prepare for Challenges: Anticipate and strategize against potential federal bans and restrictive laws that threaten existing rights and freedoms.

• Diverse Activism Strategies: Utilize a combination of donations, advocacy, and volunteer work tailored to individual strengths and capacities.

• Inclusive Coalitions: Foster broad-based alliances across diverse communities to create a resilient and unified opposition against regressive policies.

• Persistence: Maintain ongoing participation and support to sustain democratic processes and safeguard against complacency.

Notable Quotes:

• Kim France [04:47]: “Kamala said it very well in her concession speech when she said, now is not the time to throw up your hands. Now is the time to roll up your sleeves.”

• Jen Bluestein [34:45]: “Abortion Access still received 5.8 million votes, more than DeSantis himself did in his last election.”

• Jen Bluestein [37:20]: “Republicans will start enforcing the Comstock Act... prohibit people from buying abortion pills online.”

• Jennifer Romolini [56:51]: “We can't go quietly. We have to participate.”

---

This episode of Everything is Fine serves as a clarion call for sustained engagement and resilience in the face of political setbacks. By focusing on both emotional well-being and strategic activism, Romolini, France, and Bluestein provide listeners with both the motivation and practical tools necessary to navigate and influence the evolving political landscape.

Transcript

[Sleep Number Ad]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep number Smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep number does that too. Why choose a Sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season. On the top selling i8 smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time shop a sleep number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Over the last 75 years, over 10,000 chemicals have been introduced to our food supply, yet the EU only allows 300 food additives. But at Thrive Market, we bring our members the highest quality brands and restrict more than 1,000 ingredients found at conventional grocery stores. Making the switch is easy with our Healthy Swaps scanner, which finds better versions of all your favorite pantry, snacking and home essentials without the added junk dyes and fillers. Plus, it's all delivered straight to your door. So if you're looking to shop at a grocery store that actually cares about your health, go to thrivemarket.com podcast and you'll get 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[Acast Ad]

Hey marketers, your marketing plan deserves more than just reach. It needs real connection. Podcast advertising with Acast puts your brand in the ears of your perfect audience when they're paying most attention. And with more than 1 billion listens every quarter, we know your next customer is listening to Acast podcasts no matter what app they're using. Target audiences like paid social with cinema like attention whether it's by demographics, interests or your own first party data. Connect with the right people with Acast. Visit go.acast.com ads to get started today.

[Kim France]

Hi and welcome to Everything is Fine, a podcast for women over 40. We are your hosts. I'm a very sad Kim France.

[Jennifer Romolini]

I'm a very angry Jennifer Romolini.

[Kim France]

We have a great guest for you guys today, Jen Bluestein, who I think probably has been on the show more than any one person. Person who comes and talks us through politics. When politics sounds scary, which it certainly.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Does right now, it really does it. It's new though. The feeling is new, at least for me. It's like, it's like post shock, post fear. It's really something new. I really feel like a new kind of negative energy.

[Kim France]

It feels, I just feel like, I feel like I walked around on Wednesday like somebody had just punched me.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

I just felt like I had just gotten sucker punched, you know, and I feel zombies.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Yeah. Zombiness to it.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah.

[Kim France]

And so ever since then, I feel like I've been walking around like a cartoon character with, like, you know, diamonds and things circling their head.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Yeah. Like, stunned. Just kind of out of it. Yeah.

[Kim France]

I've been walking around like a little. Like a little lost puppy. I feel like rolling up on the sofa and whimpering.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Yeah, I. I cried a lot on Wednesday. Like, I would just, like, burst into tears. You know, it's at different times. And then it's Thursday when we're recording this, so I'm sure things may have changed since then. I started to feel like a fire, like a deep anger. Like, I started to connect with, like, a rage like, that I have not. I have not really connected with in a long time. Like. Like a righteous rage, you know, not just, like, I'm pissed at this person. And then I. I started thinking, like. And I said this to Jen. I don't know if I said on the podcast or not, but I feel that I was built to fight, and this is going to require a fight. Like, I just. I feel that so profoundly. And, like, the things that we talked about in this. In this show that I hope people really hear, which is we have to. We have to let them know we're watching them. We can't go quietly. They need to ha. They need to know that we are here. Because the worst thing that could happen at this moment. I know we're so tired, all of us, and we've been disappointed, and we can't believe we're back here and all of that, but the worst thing that could happen is that we just watch.

[Kim France]

Yep. Well, no, it's.

[Jennifer Romolini]

What? It's.

[Kim France]

You know, Kamala said it very well in her concession speech when she said, now is not the time to throw up your hands. Now is the time to roll up your sleeves.

[Jennifer Romolini]

And I hear that. And I like the original. Like, at first, I was just like, oh, God, what the fuck? And I don't want to hear anything inspirational. And I can't. Like, I don't want to hear this positive shit. Like, I don't want to hear any of it. But it's reality.

[Jen Bluestein]

It is reality.

[Kim France]

And it's not even necessarily positive shit, because, you know, Jen talked about us, you know, about anyone who's interested in making change engaging in certain activities that don't sound fun or interesting but are just important because they're part of government.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Right. They're part of democracy, really. And the thing that I. That I. That I wrote about last week and that I've been thinking about so much is just this idea of sitting it out, not showing up what that feels like, the ramifications of that, because it doesn't look exactly the way you wanted it to because, you know, it didn't. It didn't seem exactly right. And the consequences of bowing out. Yeah, like, that's really where I'm the most terrified at this point. Because we know the shit he's going to try to do, and we know he's going to be successful in a lot of it. Like, we know. We know what's. How we know what's coming. If we don't know, we could read about it because they wrote a literal book about it. So, like, we have to. We have to come out in force. It's still, as of this day, and probably for a while, it's a free country. And like other countries who affect change when they don't like their government, fucking don't let their government get away with it. Look at France. They don't let people get away with.

[Kim France]

No, they have. They strike in the streets.

[Jennifer Romolini]

We let people get away with. And I. We cannot let them get away with it this time. And all I am thinking right now is midterms, Midterms, midterms, midterms, midterms. How do we start turning this ship back around? And I know there's so much work to do, and I know so many people feel tired and disenfranchised and the reason why people weren't on board with this and, you know, weren't on board with Kamala and nobody likes war. And like, I get all of that, but, like, it's just. It's just fucking time. Just get in the game.

[Kim France]

No, it absolutely is. And this is a. This is a good episode for anyone thinking about doing that.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Exactly. All right, well, thank you everybody for listening to us so much, and I hope this is helpful. And our. Our email is open, our Facebook group is open. We are here to commiserate, to help, to help direct if we can.

[Jen Bluestein]

We're.

[Jennifer Romolini]

We're around. So let's get into it. Our guest today is Jen Bluestein. Jen has spent more than two decades in the nonprofit political and media sectors. Before becoming a consultant, she served as managing director of Reproductive Freedom for All, as director of communications and research at Emily's List, and helped found Mark Kelly and Gabby Giffords gun violence prevention organization. She has driven across America in a bus with Bono to build support for foreign policy and lived in an abandoned building while working to elect Cory Booker the mayor of Newark, New Jersey. Welcome, Jen.

[Jen Bluestein]

Thanks for having me.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Fucking time.

[Kim France]

We're glad you're here.

[Jennifer Romolini]

So what the fuck has actually happened? Let's start there.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah. So it is really a pleasure to be with you guys today and I thank you for. For doing this and sort of leaning in to try and understand it rather than turning away from it, because it's a really. It's really hard out there. There are still votes being counted, but it looks like we have a Republican trifecta. So Republicans will control the Senate and the House and the White House. We had obviously hope to hold the White House. We'd hope to take the House back for sure. The Senate map was harder, but we'd hope to take the House back for sure. It is still possible that we could win the House. As I'm saying this, and I think that partly what is. At least speaking for myself, I think what was shocking was not shocking that we lost. Every poll going into election Day had basically a jump ball in the swing states. What I think is shocking are the degrees to which Trump improved his margins among basically every demographic there is. White men voted for Trump 60, 34 white women voted 53% for Trump, although I will say white college educated women voted for Harris. This reflects a trend in these results that the Democratic Party is doing worse and worse among people who don't have a college degree. Harris did incredibly well among black voters. She won Black women by 91% and Black men by 77%. We saw a huge movement in the Latino vote. Latino men voted for Trump 55% to 43%. Latino women voted for Harris by 60 to 38. And I think one of the other things that surprised a lot of us was that those were in swing states, but where we might expect to see different results. But also he improved his margins even in places like New York, which he didn't win, but he did a lot better with. So we have what looks like a pretty, you know, pretty big rejection of Democrats and potentially a pretty big sort of realignment in the electorate, which is hard. It's really hard to see. It's really hard to see.

[Kim France]

Well, it's hard to wake up the next morning from. And it made me think about you. Cause you've worked on so many campaigns and what do you do in the morning, the morning after you lose?

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah, it's pretty devastating. You know, I'm pretty. I was saying to you guys before and you guys have known me for a long time, pretty action oriented person. And I always feel better when I take action. And so I actually haven't done any crying, but I just got a little lump in my throat because I am thinking about two women friends of mine who are very, very senior women in the campaign. And both have young kids at home, both haven't seen their kids at all for really a long time. And, you know, the waking up the next day when you've given so much up and you don't get what you want is incredibly painful, I think, you know, look, for me, you do have to do a lot of reflection and learning, and those are not actually the same thing. Right. The learning is looking at the data and you correlate it and you with what you did and what you didn't do and what you think might have worked. Right. I encourage people here, I find it incredibly toxic and unproductive to engage in sort of immediate blame gaming and sort of putting your chips down on something you think would have been the difference. Right. Like we should have had an open primary. We should have spent more money on black radio. We should have this. I find that super unhelpful in part because it's just unlikely that one thing would have changed the outcome. Politics is not a science. Right. A campaign is a story told over many, many, many chapters, in some cases over many years. Right. In which all sorts of decisions you make influence other decisions you make and they compound one another and they change one another. Right. And so we could have done any of those things differently and it might not have made a difference or something that we haven't thought of and aren't saying was the reason could have made a difference. So I think pretty helpful to just spend some time looking at how, looking at what we did, and I will say this also, we had some really bright spots. And I do not want to be toxically positive, and I don't think anybody would ever accuse me of being overly positive, but we had some wins and some bright spots in the grand scheme of things. They will not be able, they will not stop the Trump administration from doing some terrible things, but they are bright spots. They are real. We, for the first time in history, will have two black women serving in the Senate together. Lisa Barton, Rochester from Delaware, and Angela, also Brooks from Maryland. Alyssa Slatkin won a Senate seat in Michigan by a hair's breadth, which is just an incredible, incredible accomplishment in this environment. She is a very talented legislator. She's in the house. Sarah McBride, who I love, because she's a huge paid leave champion at the state level politics, was just elected the first transgender congressperson ever. We also had, you know, I think a lot of us have lived through the last couple years with real horror over the extremism. We've seen people direct towards our public schools. I think this election is sort of shaping up to be in some ways a rejection of that. So we won all of the ballot initiatives where privatization efforts like vouchers were on the ballot. And then we won 7 out of 10 abortion ballot initiatives, including incredibly, incredibly conservative places where abortion was outright banned. We won ballot initiatives that will enshrine abortion access for years and years and years to come. And those are incredible accomplishments. And so I say that I think the day after, you should look at those bright spots. A, because they are just truly significant, right? And they are evidence of moving forward. B, because they're people to learn from. How they did that gives you an opportunity to learn. And then finally, I just think the reflection piece for me is what can I be right now in this political environment? And I just, again, I want to be very careful that I'm not lecturing people. Last night I was in Arizona for the four days before the election. I had my kid with me. I had my friend's kid who's lots of friend, who is senior leader on the campaign. Brought her family to Arizona with me so that we could do get out the vote there. Flew back in very, very late in the middle of the night on election day. And last night I was so sad and I was so exhausted and I didn't want to go to the planning board meeting. I'm a member of the planning board in the city that I sit on. That's an appointed position. And I was not going to go. And then I just decided that what I could do, the person that I could be, was to go to the meeting. And I looked like shit. I had no patience with anybody. But I went because A, I wanted to be that self for the community that I live in and B, because I believe that the people in Donald Trump's campaign and Donald Trump's world, the people who supported Donald Trump, the people who funded Donald Trump, want us to sit it out, right? We talked about this two years ago about Roe, right? That they're trying to exhaust us with these attacks. It is a tactic of fascists. We know this, right? Is to get you to be too tired, too exhausted to think it won't matter if you show up. To think it'll be dangerous if you show up. And so what I could do was show up. And so I think that for me, that reflection piece is about thinking who and what do you feel the most protective of and passionate about? And what you can do for those issues, those people, is to show up and to give them your proximate power. And I don't think that's something you have to decide on, like today or tomorrow. I think you can reflect on it for a bit. But it is, you know, the learning and the reflection in equal parts. I think you do, and yet you do your laundry. A lot of people buy clean. No joke. I'm telling you the truth. A lot of people who work on campaigns buy clean underwear for the last month because laundry is out of the question. And so it's just like a time to reconnect. You know, most people on campaigns don't have jobs anymore. Right. And so it's a hard time. It's a hard time for them, too.

[Jennifer Romolini]

I want. I want to talk about this idea of not showing up, because I think what you just said is so exactly right. And one of the things that I've, I've been so furious about in this, in what just happened, is how many Democrats did not show up because they didn't have a perfect candidate, and they didn't, you know, they just opted out because it wasn't what they wanted. And I think there are a couple of things to explore in that. The first thing is most people only engage in politics every four years in a presidential election, maybe every two years in a midterm, when really, I think experts, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, would say that things happen locally and that if you want to affect change, then it needs to be a consistent effort. And certainly, I would imagine right now, as we go into this second Trump presidency, engaging more regularly is going to be crucial to fighting this entire agenda. Right. What do you say to people? Because what I'm seeing a lot right now is I'm tired. I'm so tired. I'm tired in a way that sleep can't fix, that a vacation can't cure. But you know what you just said? You showed up and you were exhausted. You'd just been out working for days and months. What do you say to people? What does that look like for people? That's my first point on this.

[Jen Bluestein]

I think this is a hard question. I think you're actually, in some ways, asking two questions, which is. The first is sort of like, how should we think about voting? Right. And how do we build A practice of voting for ourselves that doesn't become like a second job where we all are constantly having to research the hell out of every candidate, but that it's just a. The thing that we do, like putting nutrients in our body enough to stay alive. Right. And the second is how do we show up for what is going to be required of us over the next four years in all sorts of different ways, not just voting. Right. So I guess I would say that I want to take the second part first. Maybe. I think, you know, I remember when we were doing this show in the summer, right after Biden had stepped down. I was with Jess Floyd, my brilliant, brilliant friend who runs the Hub project, and she was talking about people who get into advocacy, who get into politics. You go to your first demonstration because you're just so angry, so angry about something and then you stay because first of all, it was amazing and you felt like your time was well spent. And second, because you met somebody you liked, you liked the energy, you felt good. And I think, look, the reason that I dragged my 6 year old and somebody else's two 12 year olds and their 6 year old out to Arizona to go geotving is because you are with your people and it feels good.

[Kim France]

Yes, right.

[Jen Bluestein]

And so, you know, there's this like. And Jen, I know that I'm not allowed to give you anything inspirational. Not a quote, not a meme, not nothing. You don't want it. Lots. So you can just close your ears for this part. There's, you know, like there's a TED Lasso clip that people are passing around where he says there's something worse than, than being sad. It's being sad alone. And that's actually true of being angry also, I think. Right. Like your most productive anger, the anger that does the least damage for you and the most good for the rest of the world is anger with other people towards a purpose. Right. So I think that's part of it. I also think like people should find what. And I believe this not just about sort of protest and resistance, but also about advocacy. When you're doing it in affirmative ways, find what works for you. My husband is a very quiet Zen Buddhist. He is an introvert. He did not want to go knocking on doors with us, but he was super happy to drive us around, super happy to collate all the literature that we were leaving at people's houses. That is the role for him. Right? Find roles that work for you, find organizations that work for you. If you decide that, you know, we are, it is about to be, I think, terrible for immigrants in this country, and not just for immigrants who are here not as citizens, but for immigrants broadly. Right. This is a kind of a movement that really is about hatred of the other and blaming the other. And that also we've seen this in the abortion bans that have been passed that is sort of into this vigilante justice mindset. Right. So it is about to get real for immigrants. And so I think you think if you decide that that's a place that you want to engage with and you engage with a group and something about it doesn't feel right for you, you don't love their language, or you don't like the person who's your volunteer contact. Find another place you're allowed to shop for the people and places that feel the most comfortable to you. And I think sometimes people are shy also about asking friends. It's like we're super quick to ask friends for, like, a recommendation for a gynecologist or an allergist, and we don't really ask.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Orthodontist. Right.

[Jen Bluestein]

Do you have a place? I was going to say orthodontist, but I didn't know if that was, like, still, you know, a vulnerable place for you, Jen? I don't want to bring up hard things, you know, And I think that, like, I moved back to Massachusetts three years ago from Washington, and I didn't have, because I live in a different part of Massachusetts slightly than I grew up in, I didn't have relationships here. And I have a good friend here, and I asked her, like, okay, what do you do? And she told me, and I do it, and it works. You know, one of her places isn't, like, a perfect place fit for me, so I don't do that one.

[Kim France]

I also just think in general, like, for. In the last 72 hours, I have really felt like one of the things that is going to help us is staying connected to each other.

[Jen Bluestein]

100%. 100%. And I think, you know, part of this is that I've been thinking a lot about, I worked a lot this cycle, as did lots of people with women and their families, but mostly women who shared their abortion stories, their pregnancy stories, their pregnancy loss stories. And. And I really appreciate how much you have shared your own story and made that part of your, honestly, of your advocacy and your work. And I think the storytelling piece and the being together and the holding each other's stories is really powerful. You know, I am not a particularly radical activist. Right. I work in political cultures, but I remember Being at an art exhibit at the Victoria and Albert Museum years ago, that was about protest art and learning about how people. The different ways people chain themselves together, right? When they are protesting something. And one of the things that they do is that people. They handcuff their hands together. You guys are like, wow, where is she going with this? She's got handcuffs.

[Jennifer Romolini]

No, I'm not.

[Jen Bluestein]

They handcuff their hands together, but handcuffs you can cut open, right. Relatively easy to get off. And then they put PVC piping around their arms so that the part of the hands that are handcuffed together to form a human chain have PVC piping. So the police cannot cut the handcuffs off because they can't get in there. And they would have to cut people's hands open. Right. Hands off. Because they can't see white. And this is. Sorry to be graphic, but there is literally power when we insist on being together. It also helps people if, you know, you feel. Am I being made to feel that I am othered, maybe not for my racial or gender identity, but for my political beliefs? Am I the only person who feels so awful about this? Am I somehow reacting over emotionally, or am I feeling this too hard being with other people? Right. Having your little handcuffs to your other women and some men will help you to feel that you are part of a movement and that you are equal to, if not more significant to the Trump administration in moral and potentially in impact status as well.

[Jennifer Romolini]

I think that's wonderful. But one thing that I want to talk about, and I think it's important to talk about, is that this election was a rejection of liberal elites. Liberalism to some degree. And white women are a problem. All right. In some ways. I mean, obviously, like, a lot. You know, So I worry. But wait.

[Jen Bluestein]

But wait.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Because I worry that we are siloed in our white lady liberal spaces.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Romolini]

And I mean, I was seeing it on Facebook. I have a lot of friends in Pennsylvania. I'm from Philly. Like, I was seeing this shit, and I was like, we have to expand this coalition now. I believe that. That Trump's policies that everybody just fucking voted for are going to do a lot of this work for us. Because everyone's going to be in for a fucking rude awakening once these policies start coming down the pike. Like, people are like, I just wanted bread to be cheaper.

[Jen Bluestein]

Right?

[Jennifer Romolini]

Good fucking love, bud.

[Jen Bluestein]

I think that there again, this is where I come back to, like, I'm not sure if I'm ready to say sort of one thing. Did this or this was a rejection of us for one reason versus some reasons, cumulative. Right.

[Sleep Number Ad]

Fair.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Fair.

[Jen Bluestein]

For sure. We have a real realignment of working class and less educated voters towards, in this case, the Republican Party, the Republican candidate. I think a couple of things, like, look, there is real data, real history that shows that inflation has horrible electoral outcomes for whoever is in charge when inflation happens, whether they're Republicans or Democrats. Right. I think it is fair to say, and I think it's fair to say that the Biden administration took way too long and did not respond to people's concerns about inflation in a way that could have helped them potentially ride that.

[Jennifer Romolini]

He was talking about his accomplishments. We should have talked about the problem that's happening.

[Kim France]

Right.

[Jen Bluestein]

100%. Because people weren't. Not because the accomplishments weren't important, but because people weren't feeling them. Right?

[Jennifer Romolini]

That's right.

[Jen Bluestein]

I had a friend, I used to work at a big national foundation and she said, always we're trying to sell people solutions to problems they don't know they have. And this is an inverse of that, which is we were trying to tell people they were doing well in ways that they just didn't feel it. Right. I think the other thing is that we, you know, we really have a bear of a problem. People say, you know, oh, Democrats, they campaign on these social issues like abortion. Okay. Abortion is not, first of all, abortion won us a lot of this race. Right. We would have been, we were much worse off in July when we had a candidate who could not say the word abortion. Right. Second of all, abortion is about not just your sense of whether you're full participant in society. It's about whether you can plan your children so that you can still work and you can take care of the children that you have. Right. Paid leave is not, it's not a social issue. It's about whether families go bankrupt when somebody has an accident or gets ill. Right. So you are 100% right, Jen, that we need to really listen and learn and think about the ways that people experience their lives, particularly those who are working class and or don't have a college degree. We need to think about what we prioritize and how we talk about it. Right. And where we talk about it, so that our commitment to helping those people and their families thrive is made really clear. And I do actually think we have people in our party who are terrific at that now. We have many, we have many things, as you said, Jen, we always want our candidates to be everything to them. We want them to be great populists. We want them to be great orators. We want them also to be young. We want them to, you know, and so, you know, we have an incredible bench and I think that we have the ability to do that. But I think if we what I would be distraught about is if we give up on some of our long held beliefs as Democrats, right, Like inclusion and financial inclusion and financial stability for families in ways that go beyond whether they have a paycheck that week. Right. In an effort to correct what is a massive deficit. I think we can do both. I think we can correct the massive deficit with those folks. And I think I can't remember who said it, but said middle class people are feeling working class, right? This is not just the working class voters who are feeling this way. We all to a certain extent are feeling this way by making it clear that our economic policies and our values are one and the same.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Let's take a quick break from some ads. Support for Everything Is Fine comes from Ritual did you know that in the winter time your skin tends to dry out? Of course you knew. That is a tough time retaining moisture. Even if you're keeping up a big multiple step skin care routine, your skin gets drier, it looks a little crepier, a little more wrinkly. Well with Rituals Hyac skin supplement you can actually help fight that dryness. It's a clinically proven way to support skin hydration with science backed benefits like reducing wrinkles and improving skin smoothness. I love ritual. I've been using Ritual for years now. I use their multivitamin, I use their melatonin and I use Haasera which I find is a really easy thing to add to my routine. The they taste good, hair tastes good, it doesn't smell bad, it's aesthetically pleasing packaging. I I think that these are just stellar supplements. Haasera, it says itself in a clinical study led to a 2.9 time increase in skin smoothness within 90 days as compared to a placebo. So you could enhance your skin care routine from the inside out with one capsule enhanced with soothing vanilla as well. So there's definitely some vanilla in there. It's also rigorously tested and validated by a third party for allergens, microbes and heavy metals. Ritual works with world class certification bodies to validate their products and they they have industry leading sustainability standards which I really love. So start Hyacra today to support your glow without compromising on clean science. Hyac from Ritual is a clinically proven skin supplement you can actually trust. Get 25 off your first month for a limited [e-mail] fine that's ritual.com fine for 25% off your first month.

[Sleep Number Ad]

They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now it's the lowest price of the season on the top selling IHS Smart bed your best savings plus special financing limited time Shop a sleep Number store near you see store or sleepnumber.com for details. Over the last 75 years, over 10,000 chemicals have been introduced to our food supply, yet the EU only allows 300 food additives. But at Thrive Market, we bring our members the highest quality brands and restrict more than 1,000 ingredients found at conventional grocery stores. Making the switch is easy with our Healthy Swaps scanner, which finds better versions of all your favorite pantry snacking and home essentials without the added junk dyes and fillers. Plus, it's all delivered straight to your door. So if you're looking to shop at a grocery store that actually cares about your health, go to thrivemarket.com podcast and you'll get 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[Jennifer Romolini]

And we're back.

[Kim France]

Can we talk about abortion for a minute?

[Jen Bluestein]

Oh, I love to talk about abortion. Absolutely. Let's do it.

[Kim France]

Because I feel like you said there were some bright spots there too, and I don't want those to get passed over.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah, absolutely. So we had 10 abortion ballot initiatives. You remember, we've had eight so far. We've won all of them, starting with Kansas and in August of 2022. So in seven of 10 ballot initiatives, including conservative strongholds like Missouri, ballot initiatives to protect and restore and expand abortion access passed with substantial support. One of the only ones that we lost was in Florida, where Governor DeSantis had instituted an undemocratic 60% threshold. So you had to that is essentially a super majority identity, 60% of the vote. And spent millions and millions and millions of dollars against the ballot initiative, including state money. So so money that is from people's taxes to pay for services he spent to defeat the ballot initiative. Abortion Access still received 5.8 million votes, more than DeSantis himself did in his last election. So in losing, amazing. In losing, the ballot initiative got I think 53% of the vote or 54% of the vote, which in any other state is just a big win. So that is a really big deal and it has huge implications. Right? It means true. I mean, so there is a two year delay in maternal death reporting. And that is why over the last, even though Dobbs fell two years ago, we are just starting to hear those stories. And we've heard those stories pretty much in a sort of steady drumbeat since, I guess, late August. Right. We are going to continue to hear those stories, but we are also going to have some places where, setting aside what the federal government may or may not do, some places where abortion will go from being almost totally inaccessible, inaccessible to being accessible. And that is a huge win. That is a huge victory for everybody who knocked on doors, a huge victory of everybody who gave two bucks to those ballot initiatives. It reduces the burden on adjacent states who are having to provide health care for women who live in other states. It allows therefore, the quality of health care, ideally the quality of health care in those states to be higher because they're right. I mean, it's just opening access is good for all of us. Right.

[Jennifer Romolini]

But could Trump take that away? Like, could the next administration take it all away?

[Jen Bluestein]

I think what you can expect. So here's what I think you can expect. Look, a couple of things. So Trump said he was not for the ban. Republicans said he wasn't for a ban. I think most of the press corps was pretty credulous and reported that as if that was like a statement that could possibly be true. I'm personally really frustrated by that. And I hope that the press will take him, will hold him accountable when he begins to do things that constitute a ban. But here's what I think that you can expect. Republicans do not have a super majority right now to pass a federal ban in the Senate. So what they will probably do, we know this because they've already tried to do it. They're telling us they're going to do it in their various strategy documents, et cetera. They will start enforcing the Comstock Act. Comstock act is a 19th century law that's still in the books that says it's a federal crime to send or receive obscene or abortion inducing materials. That would go obviously for abortion pills, for medical abortion, that would prohibit people from buying pills online and having them sent to them in their home. That's called self managed abortion. It is incredibly safe. You may have heard a story that broke, I guess, the week before the election of a case in which a woman In Georgia who self managed an abortion, ended up dying. She died because she had complications. That can happen when you self manage an abortion with medical abortion pills, which you get from a doctor. Your you're supervised by a doctor in your process. She went to a hospital with minor complications and was turned away, was not provided care because of an abortion ban. And so her minor complications, which in virtually all cases are handled and the person completes the abortion safely and goes on with their life healthily, became fatal, major complications. But. So first they will try to enforce the Comstock act and make it impossible for people to get abortion pills which are safe. The second thing they may try to do is actually try to prohibit even the sending of medical supplies to clinics that are in states where you can get a surgical abortion. So I live in Massachusetts. Abortion is legal, but that would unless the surgical materials needed for a surgical abortion were like literally made in Massachusetts, sending them to Massachusetts would be legal. These are really canny people. Remember, these are the same people who like, tried to put clinics out of business by measuring the width of the hallways and saying the hallways needed to be a certain width to accommodate a stretcher. Right. So that's what they will probably try to do. I think we've known for a long time that their end goal is what, what you've heard us call fetal personhood, which is giving a fetus at any stage of its developments the same right as a person. And the way they want to do that is that they think Trump can issue an executive order extending the protections of the 14th amendment. So the 14th amendment is the equal protection clause ratified in 1968, post civil war, to remedy the evils of slavery that were literally enshrined in our Constitution and extend those protections to the preborn. And that would make abortion at any stage, in any place illegal and achieve basically their longtime goal of fetal personhood. So I think a couple of things. So anything he wants to do legislatively, he has to go through a Senate in which they do not have a super majority. Right. He also has killed a filibuster.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Right?

[Jen Bluestein]

Right.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Couldn't they?

[Jen Bluestein]

He has two senators. Supermajority is exactly when you can, you have 60 votes and so you can break the filibuster. He, he has two senators in the Republican caucus, Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins. Lisa Murkowski is from Alaska, Susan Collins is from Maine, who have previously who have mixed records on abortion. They are not as good as I would like them to be, but they are not as bad as other members of their Caucus. They have gone on record saying they don't support bans. They have gone on record saying they do support some other things. So it is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly important that Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski hear from their constituents. If you live in those states or you have friends and family who live in those states, you must, must, must engage. I just set up a donation to an organization in Alaska. I have no connection to this organization, but I want them to have money, and that is a way I can show up, because I'm not going to Alaska. I think that Democrats need to keep hearing from us that this is unacceptable. We need to continue to make this politically untenable to vote for. Right. And I know that folks might feel so lousy, like, I just did all my activism, and we have this terrible outcome. And now you're telling me as if I'm, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and hoping it worked. It often works. It works often. I have health care. I'm in. You know, I'm. I'm a solo consultant. I have health care because Barack Obama and Teddy Kennedy and some other people got the ACA passed. Right? It didn't work this time. Our work didn't work this time. It does work much of the time. One more thing I would say is give money to an abortion fund.

[Kim France]

That was my question, because I've been giving money to Planned Parenthood monthly ever since he was elected the first time. And I wonder, giving money is good. It's important. It's certainly important. But should I be doing clinic defense? Should I be.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah. So look, again, I think this is. I have a couple thoughts. I think this is definitely, first of all, a case where there's this phrase, time, talents, and resources. That's what we all have to give, right? We have our time, we have our talents, we have our resources. And ideally, I like to feel that my portfolio is mixed, that I have a diversified portfolio across those. And people might say I just don't have time right now. I got a sick parent or a baby, and I don't have time. Some people might say I lost my job and I have not a dime to spend right now. And that's okay. But, like, find the version of your time, talents, and resources that works for you. For me. And I'm rethinking, I guess. Am I rethinking it? I'm mostly just sort of, like, looking at it like it's my portfolio and do I want to change it? I give to abortion funds Because I just really think that matters. In places like the Deep south, it really, really, really, really matters.

[Kim France]

Isn't there one. I just want to get it. Isn't there one organization that is. That oversees all the abortion funds or the donation?

[Jen Bluestein]

They don't oversee it, but I think it may be on the NAF website and I will find it and you can put it in the show links for folks that will aggregate your donation across multiple abortion funds that need your support. The second is local advocacy groups. I think I. You're. You have been so kind to have me on before, and I feel like people are like, enough with Jen Bluestein telling me to give to my local advocacy organization, but like, they need your money. They do financial planning. A recurring donation. Even if it's. If you know you can give a hundred dollars a year, you could give a hundred bucks a year, or you can give a certain amount up every month and they know that they're going to have that every month. You say, you just click the little button says make this recurring. You can set the amount that you want to make it recurring. I find that really helpful because I'm super forgetful and it pushes me, honestly, to give probably a little more than I'm comfortable. Like a little more than I'm comfortable. And yet, which I know doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me. Right. The second thing I would say is, you know, I do think that large national organizations have a really critical role to play in this ecosystem. They can organize at scale. They can engage with lawmakers and legislators and regulators at scale. You know, Planned Parent is a wonderful organization and they do incredible work providing health care. So many of us have gotten our health care at Planned Parenthood over the years. Reproductive Freedom for All, which I used to work at, is led by Minnie Timaraju. Minnie is a classic everything is fine demographic type. She is a Texan. She spent most of her life in Texas politics. Texas fights for reproductive freedom. She is a South Asian woman in leadership in a world where South Asian women do not, you know, are in relatively few leadership posts. She is an unbelievable organizer. She has two little boys. She is just a fierce, fierce person. She has helped the Biden administration really stiffen its spine on this issue, which is, which was really important. She has been. Some of your listeners have probably seen her, you know, introducing the vice president at events. She is just an incredible leader. They are doing incredible work. I also encourage people to check them out. So I think with your money, you want to support abortion funds, you want to Support. Support local advocacy. You want to support national advocacy. I think with your time, you got to decide what is most comfortable for you. In some places where I live, you know, clinic defense is not, like, hugely necessary because it's an overwhelmingly supportive state for that. In other places, it definitely is, I think, you know, engaging in accountability. And this is, you know, this gets back to your question, John, about, like, voting. Voting is a very specific thing. We only get to do what's specific times, right? It's like a little quirky muscle we only use at certain times. And what is the muscle that we use to influence the outcome on policies we want the rest of the time? And the way we in politics talk about it is accountability. And you have positive accountability and negative accountability. It's just exactly what it sounds like, right. When you explain it more. So when your representative goes out, when more Healey, my governor, announces that she is, you know, stockpiling, which she did earlier this year, stockpiling medical, abortion, medicine. Right. And doing everything she can to make it available to anybody who can have a way of getting to Massachusetts. I want to call her up and I want to say, thank you so much. I saw what you said, or I read it in the club, and I thank you for that. And I want to. And make sure you show up to vote for Maura Healy next time. Make sure, you know, if you can give Maury Healy five bucks. Right. I liked what I saw. Here's a little show of my support in five bucks. That's positive accountability. Negative accountability is exactly what it sounds like, which is, you know, standing in front of those people's offices. If you can. If you're the kind of person who can do that, who can go to a demonstration, you go, you show up. If you live in a state, battleground state, or a red state, and your representative is going to be a part of these shenanigans trying to, you know, enforce the Comstock act or pass an abortion ban. You call them up and you say, my name is Jen Romolini, and I live on, you know, I'm a constituent. I live on XX street, and I'm not for that. And I'm giving money to your opponent, even if your opponent is like a wet puppy at that point, right? Like you want to show them, I am watching. I matter to you. I am not with you. And I'm watching. I'm watching is so important.

[Jennifer Romolini]

I'm watching at the local level. So the larger question, I mean, is this center going to hold? I mean, that's. I Think that's what everybody's kind of worried about. And what can we do? I mean, I know you don't have all the answers to this, but you have more answers than I do or Kim does. What can we do to help the center hold on our systems and our, you know, our structure? Because what's terrifying about this, you know, mandate, he's got everything. He's got all branches of government.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yep, he has all branches of government. He doesn't, you know, I mean, we are okay at the, you know, we didn't suffer massive losses in gov. We didn't have that many governors races this year. We will have many more in the coming years. So that's something to pay attention to. I think a couple of things, I think, oh my gosh, this is a conversation that could go on for ages. So first is that I'm watching. Peace is so important. Right. And that is hard. And you think about like, how can it be? We have so many people in those seven states, plus some of the eight before that passed abortion access ballot initiatives who voted for Trump. That is a very confusing thing. Right. You think about why that is. Well, some of it is that they weren't quite paying that much attention or they were their media diet let them helped them believe they were confused about who overturned Roe or they believed Donald Trump because some place that they saw on YouTube said that it was true, that he was never going to try to pass an abortion ban. So that thinking, not just for yourself, but like what ecosystem do you just try your best to support that helps people know and watch is one piece, the other is. And this goes back to my planning board example. It's so annoying when people say this, but a democracy, I don't mean electoral work. I mean a functioning democracy administering government is not a spectator sport is mostly run by volunteers. Right? Right. And so library boards are volunteers, school boards are volunteers. Many, many state legislatures are all but volunteers because they're paid so badly. But so when you think about where you live, you think again. This is time and talents, right? Like, what are you good for? I'm actually on the planning board because there was a big contretemps in my library system and at the same time that people were attacking librarians and trying to really force right wing policies using libraries. And so he said to him, I live in a very small place outside of the mayor. He said, would you ever sit on a board? And I said, oh, I'd sit on the library board. I'd love to do that. I know something about you know, books and library systems and stuff. And he said, well, I don't have a spot on the library board, but let's talk about other issues that you care about. And I know that sounds crazy. Like, here's Jen Bluestein just telling me to walk up to your mayor and, you know, say you want to sit on a board, but trust me, in many places you can walk up to your mayor and say you want to. You want to be on a board. You can. If not, if you don't know the mayor, start going to the meetings of whatever volunteer board or city council or whatever has lawmaking and regulatory authority over what you care about. Join the Housing Fairness Coalition in your neighborhood. Showing up at those meetings matters because what's going to happen is when push comes to shove, they're deciding about whether they're going to do exclusionary zoning or non exclusionary zoning. They're going to say, the Housing Choice Coalition has 400 members and 400 is way better than 100. Right. So literally, just by being a member, it's better. They're gonna have found out that you are next door neighbors to one of the people who's gonna vote on that exclusionary zoning. And they're gonna find out, they're gonna. Maybe that person assumes that you might be for exclusionary zoning because you live in a single family house. You should just. They're gonna have. They're gonna help you figure out how to walk over to your neighbors and say, you know, I am for multi unit development so that more people of different income levels can live in this beautiful place. Right. So once this goes back to your point, Kim, about how much of ourselves is engaged when we're together. Right. You have no idea what to do when you're alone. You have no idea what facts about you, let alone your talents, what facts about you might matter.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Yeah.

[Jen Bluestein]

Going to school board meetings, going to city council meetings, it's a total drag. It can be really boring. It takes up time.

[Kim France]

I wasn't going to say it. I was just thinking this sounds so tedious.

[Jennifer Romolini]

No, but democracy requires participation. And this is a moment where we have to participate. I really think that more than anything, that's really the, you know, we can, you know, Monday morning quarterback like, and we could do all of this stuff. The hindsight is everything of what just fucking happened. But a lot of what just happened was complacency. That's what I see in the people who didn't show up.

[Jen Bluestein]

You know, I see all these mostly older women who come to these meetings And a lot of them have knitting, right? Cause at least you can do something while you're listening. So my mom used to needlepoint a lot and she can't anymore because she's got arthritis. Yeah, arthritis. And so she gave me, like, a beginner needlepoint set so that I can learn how to needlepoint while I'm at the. I mean, you do what you have. As Jen says, you do what you have to do. I mean, I also hate the gym. I hate the gym. I'm not one of those people who gets a high from exercising. I don't enjoy it. My hobbies, such as they are, don't lend themselves to me doing them during the gym. But I actually know that I'm going to die young if I don't go. Right? So I go. I don't like it while I'm there. And you might not like it, but you will be. You will know the bad things that you've stopped. You will know the good things that you've done. And I truly believe that you will mostly might take a while, but you will find some new people that you like. And some might be really different people than are in your existing social circles when you start showing up like that. I also just think. And I know you guys talk about this a lot. Local news is really important. Like, you gotta get a subscription to whatever your local newspaper is, and you gotta pay for that content. And, you know, some of it you really won't care about, and some of it will really help you understand what people are doing. Yeah.

[Kim France]

And they're disappearing, so we really have to support them.

[Jennifer Romolini]

So you're saying, pay attention, pay attention. Hold. Hold people locally accountable as much as you can, because that's going to have a lot of impact. Show them that you're watching.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Engage and participate.

[Jen Bluestein]

And I think how we're going to get through this. You wrote about this today. Is it. Look, it is an incremental process. It just is. I wish it were otherwise. It's not our. Or maybe I don't wish it were otherwise. It is the. It is the nature of a democracy to function like this. Right. And so you have to sort of develop a kind of, you know, resilience is overused, but a kind of expectation that it won't always feel like, you know, big victories and it won't. You won't meet people who agree with you 100%, but that you will cumulatively feel that you have done everything you can for the place that you live in, whether that place is the block that you live on or the country that you live in.

[Jennifer Romolini]

So you're not, I mean, what I'm hearing from you is like, I'm not hearing like the Twitter TikTok noise of like, this is it, this is over. The country is over. RIP America.

[Jen Bluestein]

So I think that it is, I think we are in a terrible, terrible spot for sure. I think, you know, a lot more women are going to die in places where there are bans. And I just, I just want to say that because I find it, I just, I think it's important to name.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Immigrants are going to die, Immigrants are.

[Jen Bluestein]

Going to die, immigrants are going to die, families are going to be separated.

[Jennifer Romolini]

And trans people are going to die.

[Jen Bluestein]

Trans people are going to, are going to die. And we haven't talked about that and we may not have time. You know, I think it is important. So civil disobedience is important. And thinking about what role can I play, right? What. And proximate power. We talk about proximate power and what we mean it literally, right? Like I'm safe. I'm relatively powerful. My body, because I'm not of pregnancy bearing age is safe right now, right? So what can I do for my neighbors, right? And fellow Americans who are trans? And that is part of the reflection, part of the learning, right? I think it's going to be really bad. I think it's hard to end a country in four years. And I don't want to sound glib about that. The Right's obsession with this idea of deep state. I was thinking about it before I came on with you guys. You know, government is complex. It takes a lot of people to operate. Some of them are paid professionals, some of them are volunteers. Dismantling things is gonna take time. And the harder we can make it to be dismantled, the slower it will happen, right? So a couple of things. One, you need to think about what you yourself will do. Two, you need to think, huh? That is different. Slowing things down is a different function. Slowing a process down in a government is different than electing people. So I already have places I give money to elect people who are the people who are doing great work holding the line on this, right? I, for instance, do not have a recurring donation to National Women's Law center and a couple of the other women's organizations that do a lot of work at the regulatory and federal level. Right? Those people are going to do everything they can to stop the stuff that Trump is going to try to do.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Aclu, right.

[Jen Bluestein]

So you think about, how can I support the people who Are, you know, it's like I just. This obsession with the deep state, as if it was a bad thing. Like, is my mechanic the deep state? Because he knows more about how to fix an engine than I know about how to fix an engine. Right. Like, these people know the engine of government and they know how to try to slow it down, and I want to support them. And then the other thing I think is, and this goes back to your point, Jen, about trying to wean ourselves off of this idea that we need perfection all the time from our representatives. You are going to see people in very hard places, right. In border states, and some of them are in super, super safe districts and they may respond as passionately to the effort to deport folks as you would hope. And some people are in really hard to win districts and they're really good people and they're with us on so many things and they may not use the same language. They may show their resistance in a different way. And if you throw those people overboard, you are part of. I believe that you are part of the problem, or I should. That is a very. I believe that you have left approaches on the table that could keep us working and rowing in the same direction with as many rowers as we possibly can.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Well, you're not living in a reality of how complex this whole situation is. That's really.

[Jen Bluestein]

Yeah. Those people in those tough districts who held onto their seats last night, they need to get reelected in two years, those House members. This is not an argument towards shifting your views to be centrist. Right. It's about realizing that a governing coalition is going to have some people who are more progressive and some people who are more centrist.

[Kim France]

Well, it's like in Europe where they have parliaments, they don't have a party, they have parliament, and everybody has to get along with everybody else in order for anything to get done.

[Jen Bluestein]

Right. And look, that has its own challenges. Right. But I think it certainly does breed or it grows, maybe my sense just from having family who live in a parliamentary democracy. I have family members who have changed parties over the years who live in Britain because there are multiple parties and new parties have come up and that system allows for new parties to be successful, which are our system at the federal level does not. Right. And think about it like, how many people do you know? I mean, other than people who sort of. For whom. Who left the Republican Party when Trump was elected the first time. We don't really do that usually in our lives. We don't change parties based on kind of who's doing what now? Right. So a system, we are operating in the system that we have right now. I heard a quote from Senator Whitehouse of Rhode island, who's a long serving, really wonderful Democrat, and he said the job description has changed right now. Right. We're trying to prevent bad things from happening, not trying to do good things as much right now. Now that's a whole other conversation about what do we do for the affirmative things that we still want to be in a position to do in four years, six years from now. Right. I am not going to die until I help pass paid leave. I'm going to pass paid leave at the federal level with all my colleagues if it's the last thing I do. Probably I'm not going to do it in this four year period. Right. But thinking about what is the job description of these folks right now? And so when I assess whether I think my representative or my senator is doing a good job, am I measuring them against what the right job description right now is?

[Jennifer Romolini]

Totally. Let me. Okay, before we go, one last question. What's the best case scenario here? What's the, how's the best case scenario? Because I'm like, I'm like midterms.

[Jen Bluestein]

I'm already like, no, you should, you should 100. You should be all in on the midterms. And like I just, and I know I sound like such a, I'm such a goody two shoes on this, but you know, it will make you feel better. It will make you feel better to, you know, Jen, you know, you have some swing districts fairly near you. You could do it that way. You have family and friends in Pennsylvania. You could sort of decide. My friend Jessie Mermel, who lives incredible woman political leader in Massachusetts is from Pennsylvania. She brought 200 canvassers to Pennsylvania for two different weekends this year from Massachusetts, where we live. You know, you could decide to do that. You can get, you can do it all virtually through, you know, swing left or place like that. You absolutely should. And you should be in like Flynn starting now. And you should feel psyched because it is a muscle. And the more you build it, the stronger you are, the more you are probably likely to bring people along with you. Right. I think for me, the best. So two things I think we, as you said, Jen, the things they're going to do are going to piss a lot of people off. And we have a shot at the midterms. We also have a lot of governors on the ballot over the next couple of years. Governors have a massive amount of power if you are sleeping on your governor's race, you gotta wake up and you gotta engage around that, you know, by having, taking in local news, by engaging with some state level advocacy groups, even if it's, you know, just a couple of pennies a week, I think you gotta find, you know, you gotta, you gotta do the work of figuring out how can I show up. And you have to show up. If we have less resistance this time, we are gonna. There will be significant consequences of that. Right, right. And so I think there's that like kind of awful, awful, awful, you know, meme about like, if you've wondered what you would be doing in 1933, you're doing it. But that is kind of true. You're kind of doing it.

[Kim France]

It just kind of is, right?

[Jen Bluestein]

And so it doesn't mean you have to be like in the White Rose and start your own organization and kill German Nazis by yourself, but it means that you have to do something and you find something.

[Jennifer Romolini]

And we can't go quietly.

[Jen Bluestein]

And the other thing I just.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Fucking better than any three bitches, I.

[Jen Bluestein]

Would say, don't go quietly. I guess. I think about these women who have told their stories. Some of them are like household names now, like Amanda Zyrowski, right. Who's one of the plaintiffs in the Texas case. These people are bearing their souls and they are more powerful for it, and we are more powerful for it. I think about Michelle Obama's incredible speech. She basically like, I mean, I thought, I thought I'd like, died and was living in another country when I heard Michelle Obama explain how things go wrong in a pregnancy in a way that I know even my beloved friends and family who our men had never heard before. Right. We are living in a new awareness because of these women's stories. And our voices matter in our own way. Even if we are not speaking from a convention hall stage, even if we don't have a traumatic story to share, our lived experience is really powerful. And I think the one thing we didn't sort of to say is like, I think what we say to each other really matters. The cues that we give to each other, that we're still here, we still care about these things, you know, that I was fortunate to encounter a really amazing sort of activist and donor, founder of organizations and institutions early in my life, named Charles Merrill. And he always used to sing. This is very strange, but the, the Warsaw. I think it's the Warsaw city song. Maybe it's the whole Polish national anthem has the line, it is Poland. Poland is not lost. While we still stand. Right? And so I think, like, it's not lost while we're still talking and saying, this didn't. God, this made me feel awful in all these different ways, but it didn't change my values. The outcome of this election did not change my values. Right. So continuing to share what we think is, like, the foundational piece. It's the first and primary ingredient of our activism and our power.

[Kim France]

Thank you for this, Jenna.

[Jen Bluestein]

You guys, thank you so much for giving me the time and always inviting me back. And this time I talked about handcuffs and the Polish national Anthram. And you know what?

[Jennifer Romolini]

You're amazing. That's because you are amazing.

[Jen Bluestein]

I really appreciate your listener. You know, some of whom I imagine are more, you know, think of themselves as more political than others. Like, you matter. And this is about your life's experience. And I'm just really grateful to them for listening, and I hope it's been helpful, and I hope everybody takes care of themselves because you do have to show up and to listen and to reflect. You have to, like, sleep and eat and drink water and be good to yourself and see your friends.

[Kim France]

Thank you, Jen.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Amen to that. Thank you, Jen.

[Jen Bluestein]

Love you guys.

[Jennifer Romolini]

Thanks for listening to Everything is fine. I'm not as happy as I sound right now. We're your hosts. I'm Jen Romolini.

[Kim France]

And I'm Kim France.

[Jennifer Romolini]

If you like the show, please rate and review it across the platforms. It really helps people find the show. It makes a difference if you want to support the production of the show. And also, this is where I'm going to be putting Jen's list from today's episode. You can join our [e-mail] everythingisfine. It's $3 a month. It helps us pay our editor. If you want to follow us on social media, we're on Instagram and on Facebook. If you want to find Kim, you can find Kim France. Substack.com you can find me at Jen Romalini. Substack.com the show is mixed and edited by the wonderful Natalie Rivera. Natalie, thanks for waiting on a late episode this week. We love you, and we'll be back next week.

[Sleep Number Ad]

Over the last 75 years, over 10,000 chemicals have been introduced to our food supply, yet the EU only allows 300 food additives. But at Thrive Market, we bring our members the highest quality brands and restrict more than 1,000 ingredients found at conventional grocery stores. Making the switch is easy with our Healthy Swaps scanner, which finds better versions of all your favorite pantry, snacking, and home essentials without the added junk, dyes and fillers. Plus, it's all delivered straight to your door. So if you're looking to shop at a grocery store that actually cares about your health, go to thrivemarket.com podcast and you'll get 30% off your first order and a free gift.

[Acast Ad]

More than 125,000 podcasts trust Acast to connect them with their audience. Your brand can speak to your perfect audience, too, by advertising with acast. We're home to the biggest names in podcasting, reaching millions of engaged listeners who can only be accessed through acast. From true crime to comedy finance to fitness, your next customer's favorite podcast is an Acast show. Your audience is already here. Speak to them with Acast. Visit go.acast.com ads to get started today.