Episode 9: Leverage

Summary

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Everything They Missed – Episode 9: "Leverage"

Host: Stephanie Tinsley
Release Date: January 15, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Everything They Missed follows host Stephanie Tinsley as she tracks a seismic development in the cold case of Danny Harris’s 2007 murder in Memphis. Tinsley, with the Harris family and several key players, navigates new evidence, emotional reunions, and the tense negotiation of what could be a confession to the crime. The episode is a mix of raw family moments, the complex process of pursuing justice, and deep questions about trust, leverage, and withholding information.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emotional Reunions and Long-Awaited Conversations

• [00:24-06:01] The episode begins with Stephanie, her husband Mark, and Elizabeth driving Tamarion (Andrew’s son) to Tennessee’s Northwest Correctional Complex to visit Andrew, who has been incarcerated for nearly two decades. This intimate family visit is the first time Tamarion has seen his father since he was a baby.

  “Andrew comes out… he and Tamarion don't just hug, they collide. He's taller than Andrew, broad shoulders. But Andrew still pulls him in like he's a little boy, holding the back of his head, mashing their cheeks together, their tears combining."
  — Stephanie Tinsley, [03:26]

  • Andrew displays hope, humor, and resilience despite his circumstances, discussing his role as the “top chef” for the prison and his spiritual routine.

    “He like God, he thought, like, God, I'm going there too. Because even in situations like that, most people, they don't... they’ll just give up. And I’m so glad that he ain’t gave up.”
    — Tamarion, [04:46]

2. The Breakthrough: A Confession and Its Consequences

• [06:31-09:43] Stephanie recounts a pivotal late-night phone call with Stephen Harris, Danny’s other son. Stephen reveals he’s obtained a recording of a confession that could exonerate imprisoned Andrew and implicate someone new (“Sarah”) in Danny Harris’s killing.

  “She was wiping down walls all around the body. She can describe the body to me very well, address her to the right of the body. She knew about, you know, all that... Suppose she said she didn’t do the killing, but I pushed her.”
  — Stephen Harris, [07:12]

  • Stephen’s belief in Andrew’s guilt wavers for the first time, revealing internal conflict and the gravity of the discovery.
  • Tensions rise about what to do with the confession recording and who gets access.

3. The Power Struggle: Gatekeeping the Truth

• [09:43-19:55]

  • Stephen is reluctant to share the full confession tapes, insisting on legal assurances and prioritizing leverage over transparency.

    “I want Sarah... I want a promise... that they’re going to go after her. That’s the only way I move forward with them. I gotta have that guaranteed.”
    — Stephen Harris, [11:33]

  • Host Stephanie and Mark express frustration that withholding evidence could jeopardize justice for Andrew and accountability for Sarah.

  • The episode exposes the complexity of seeking justice in a family tragedy, where emotional stakes, mistrust, and past betrayals hamper collaboration.

    “If you didn’t... If they’re... If she’s admitting to more parts of the murder that you’re not giving them, how can they do their job?”
    — Mark, [18:46]

  • Stephen ultimately concedes partially, offering the primary recording to the DA’s office but withholding others.

4. The DA’s Office: Justice Review in Action

• [21:50-29:40]

  • Stephanie and investigator Clark Chapman meet Lorna McCluskey, head of the Memphis Justice Review Unit, and DA Steve Mulroy for an official discussion of Andrew’s conviction and the new evidence.

    • Lorna shares the overwhelming caseload and the limits of legal mechanisms for reopening cases, even in the face of new evidence.

      “I can spend months on a case and then know that somebody was wrongfully convicted... There’s no mechanism for prosecutors to get that in front of the judge.”
      — Lorna McCluskey, [24:18]

    • When presented with the confession:

      “It raises substantial doubt about the validity of the original conviction of Mr. Hayes. And that’s something that we need to take very seriously.”
      — DA Steve Mulroy, [25:35]

    • Both Tinsley and the Harris family seek concrete reassurances—will an investigation into Sarah be opened? Will the TBI be called in due to possible conflicts of interest? Lorna and Mulroy indicate seriousness but stop short of promising immediate action.

  • Stephanie bluffs, implying she'll release the confession on her podcast if nothing happens in a month:

    “If no action was taken within 30 days, I was prepared to place Sarah Lucas’s confession on the podcast... not to embarrass anyone, but because I felt a responsibility to expose a system that might... look the other way."
    — Stephanie Tinsley, [29:20]

5. The Impasse and Final Shift

• [29:49–32:26]

  • A second meeting between Mark, Philip, and the DA’s team proves unsatisfactory—Lorna is defensive, clear answers are elusive, and no follow-up occurs. Stephen, feeling dismissed and excluded, changes his mind.

    “I’m not worried… I’ll text Mark... that it’s okay for you to listen to it.”
    — Stephen Harris, [32:16]

  • In the closing segment, Stephanie finally gains access to the full, potentially case-changing tape of Sarah Lucas’s confession.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• The Family Reunion:
  “He and Tamarion don’t just hug, they collide... their tears combining. They hold each other for what feels like an eternity. And no one moves to break it.”
  — Stephanie Tinsley, [03:26]

• Stephen’s Unraveling Certainty:
  “Steven had spent years believing Andrew belonged in prison. Now that certainty was cracking and I could hear how much it terrified him.”
  — Stephanie Tinsley, [08:42]

• On Prosecutorial Limits:
  “You can determine someone has been wrongfully convicted but then are powerless to do anything?... Pretty much, yeah. Because... you’ve gotta have a procedure.”
  — Stephanie Tinsley and Lorna McCluskey, [24:48–24:55]

• DA’s Shift on the Confession:
  “It... raises substantial doubt about the validity of the original conviction of Mr. Hayes. And that’s something that we need to take very seriously.”
  — DA Steve Mulroy, [25:35]

• Stephanie’s Gambit:
  “If no action was taken within 30 days, I was prepared to place Sarah Lucas’s confession on the podcast, not to embarrass anyone, but because I felt a responsibility to expose a system that might once again choose to look the other way.”
  — Stephanie Tinsley, [29:20]

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [00:24–06:01] – Road trip & Andrew’s prison visit (emotional reunion, foundational family moment)
• [06:31–09:43] – Stephen’s phone call: confession is revealed, doubt enters the Harris family narrative
• [09:43–19:55] – Extended negotiation on the tapes, gatekeeping, and strategies to leverage information
• [21:50–29:40] – DA’s office meeting: real-world legal barriers, new evidence presented, justice review candidness
• [29:49–32:26] – Second DA meeting stymied, Stephen offers full tape to Stephanie, the game shifts

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode carries a tone of simmering hope, frustration, and urgency. Stephanie’s narrative is dogged and empathetic; family moments are intimate and raw. Dialogue retains the participants’ direct, sometimes unfiltered honesty. The adversarial undertones between family, advocates, and officials highlight the real human costs and the emotional toll of revisiting and relitigating the past.

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Summary

“Leverage” is a masterfully constructed episode, weaving together emotion, suspense, and the realpolitik of justice. Family bonds, confessions, and institutional inertia all collide—leaving both the Harris family and listeners hanging on the precipice of possible exoneration, new prosecutions, and overdue closure for a murder case nearly lost to silence. The episode ends on the threshold of major revelation: Stephanie finally has the tape that could unravel—or resolve—it all.

Transcript

[Stephanie Tinsley]

The following story discusses individuals connected to the case of Danny Harris, except for those previously convicted in this matter. No one mentioned in this series has been officially named a suspect, person of interest or found guilty of any crime related to his death.

[Mark]

So what? I've noticed a lot about this drive. It's very Tennessee. I mean, how many court bills have we passed?

[Philip]

Most of them are like this.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Nobody wants to build next to a prison. I'm in the car with my husband, Mark and Elizabeth headed to the Northwest Correctional Complex in Tiptonville, Tennessee, two hours outside of Memphis. I'd been there before to meet Andrew, to look him in the eyes and decide for myself if I believed him. I left that day convinced he was innocent. But also that day, before they took him back to his cell, I asked Andrew, is there anything else I can do for you? I was expecting something practical, like commissary money or stamps, maybe. Instead, he said, can you bring my child to me?

[Stephen Harris]

How are you?

[Mark]

This is my husband.

[Stephen Harris]

Hey.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

How are you? Good.

[Mark]

You know Elizabeth.

[Stephen Harris]

Hey.

[Mark]

We stopped at McDonald's, so there's some food if you want.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

That tamarion was outside when we pulled up to the apartment complex. It had taken nearly a month for the paperwork to clear and this visit to even be possible. And in all that time, I really had no idea how he felt, how he'd been bracing for this meeting with his father, the one he hasn't seen since he was a year old.

[Tamarion]

Do you remember your dad at all?

[Stephanie Tinsley]

No.

[DA Steve Mulroy]

I was on my phone.

[Tamarion]

I never been to see him, so.

[DA Steve Mulroy]

This was the first time.

[Tamarion]

He's probably more nervous than you are. My mom was telling me. She was like, we both know dirt.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Yeah. Soon the fields give way to fences with razor wire and we park and head into the concrete fortress. Inside, time behaves differently. We move through security slowly, shoes off, pockets emptied, hands stamped. One locked door after another. The visitation room is cold, with no tables and no space to move. Just. Just theater style rows that force you to sit side by side, close enough to talk, to cry, or to say nothing at all. There's no touching allowed, only a brief hug or a quick kiss if you're family. But that's it. And phones are against the rules as well. So whatever unfolds here will exist only in memories. Andrew doesn't know we're coming. He doesn't know his son is here. And as we sit there waiting, I can't help but wonder what happens when a man is about to be confronted by the life that kept moving without him. Andrew comes Out. He's quickly frisked down. And then he locks sight of his son. He and Tamarion don't just hug, they collide. He's taller than Andrew, broad shoulders. But Andrew still pulls him in like he's a little boy, holding the back of his head, mashing their cheeks together, their tears combining. They hold each other for what feels like an eternity. And no one moves to break it. When they finally sit down, Andrew does what dads do. He teases to Marion, asks about his job, if he plans on finishing school, learning a trade. Andrew talks about his own life inside. Working as the top chef for 700 men a day, reading the Bible, finding God for three hours. Time stops. And then it doesn't. The visit's over. Guards step in. Andrew's led away. And we're back in the car. And that boy who barely said a word on the drive suddenly came alive.

[Tamarion]

I never knew that he was talkative.

[Mark]

Oh, you never knew how animated and talkative he was.

[Tamarion]

Like, he's energetic.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

He's very energetic.

[Tamarion]

Yeah. And the problem mean the Top Chef. Yeah, they stuck out too. Because I heard. I heard a story my mama told you my dad could cook. When he said top shelf. Yeah, sorry. But he like God, he thought, like, God, I'm going there too. Because even in situations like that, most people, they don't like, they'll just give up. And I'm so glad that he ain't gave me. I know you know what I'm saying? Because this hall exists. He been in 18 years. I know he okay now. So, yeah, now scrinch is not done. I know he doing good. I know he doing something productive. I know he okay. See, people growing up, people tried to make me hate my dad about stuff. They were telling me and I kept telling them, you can't make me hate my dad for something that he didn't do. It's not his fault he in that position. At the end of the day, like I told him, I never give up on you because you ain't never gave up on me.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Never giving up. And after that day, none of us ever do. Foreign Stephanie Tinsley and this is everything they missed. Episode 9 Leverage.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

What's happening?

[Stephen Harris]

Oh, nothing. Just called and tell you you were right.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

About what?

[Stephen Harris]

I guess everything about this whole thing.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Late one night in mid September, Stephen Harris called me out of the blue. Days had passed since we last spoke and there was no catching up, no easing in.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

Did you just talk?

[Stephen Harris]

Oh, yeah. You know she's my boo now. We're very close. You're right. Yeah. I mean, just from anything to everything we talked about. You're right. I mean, from what I'm gathering, he. I mean, she was. I mean, yeah, she's. He's been in that apartment. He said she was wiping down walls all around the body. She can describe the body to me very well, address her to the right of the body. She knew about, you know, all that. You don't know what's in that cup. Supposedly. She said she didn't do the killing, but I pushed her. But I guarantee I'll know more about that tomorrow.

[Philip]

Oh, my God.

[Stephen Harris]

She was so horrified. I do, and I do.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

Oh, my God. When did all this.

[Stephen Harris]

Yeah, Yeah, I just went hard on her.

[Philip]

Yes.

[Stephen Harris]

Just told her, you. You know, I just need to tell you this theory, but you lied to me and now I'm having to deal with this and it's costing money and time and don't need this.

[Philip]

And she goes, well, I was scared.

[Stephen Harris]

And I got sick and I ran in and threw up just because, you know, Andrew and Cam and came and got me named and told me, you know, threatened my life, but I wasn't over there. And this, that, and other. And so I'm like, okay, so. So Andrew was there? Yeah, I don't think he was personally right now. I don't.

I don't.

That's my first opinion after this conversation. I don't think he was. God damn it. Sick to my stomach, man. But I. I need to get a full confession of her. And I don't know if we're there yet. We're close, but I stopped cold.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Steven had spent years believing Andrew belonged in prison. Now that certainty was cracking and I could hear how much it terrified him.

[Stephen Harris]

Like, what the. She wasn't crying at all.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

You're getting closer than anybody else could. No one else can get this close. No one else could have done this.

[Stephen Harris]

But that doesn't mean that I'm gonna let you have it pretty clear that, I mean, just goes to you. And I don't know if I want you to use the recording directly. Maybe you can say what you have. I don't know yet.

[Tamarion]

I gotta.

[Stephen Harris]

I gotta really sit down. This is. I'm in a up spot and I don't know why I'm talking even more about this, but this is really fucked up.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Once again, I was left in an uncomfortable place. Steven didn't want to share the recording of this call, and I was so close to what just might be the most important breakthrough in this case, but unable to touch It. So I let him process by doing the only thing I could keep him talking anyway.

[Stephen Harris]

So I think if, you know, I'll get this set up. You know, this whole book thing. She's on board. So if you want to interview her, you knock your socks off. Off. I'll get on the phone and have you introduced to her, and you kind of go. And however it works out with you and her, I'll let that happen.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

An introduction to Sarah is a promise I'll take. But I don't love the feeling that Steven is gatekeeping information. Like, everything has to be his way. A plan approved by him is just off.

[Stephen Harris]

It's bad. Like, yeah, just without saying too much, everything you thought you knew was 100% correct.

[Mark]

Have you talked to her again?

[Stephen Harris]

Oh, yeah.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

More promises.

[Mark]

And she admitted to everything?

[Stephen Harris]

Yep.

100%.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Bigger reveals.

[Mark]

She admitted to killing her dad.

[Stephen Harris]

Let's just say that between you and I, Andrew was never there yet.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

No tape.

[Stephen Harris]

I got a meeting with the VA.

Her name is Lorna McCluskey.

[Mark]

Yep, that's right.

[Stephen Harris]

She's very familiar with the states and she's very excited to talk to me. A little bit too excited.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Lorna McCluskey runs the Memphis Justice Review Unit inside the DA's office. She going to her first is unorthodox. Most people would go straight to the police and turn over the evidence. Stephen doesn't. Instead, he's choosing to put legal eyes on the case before anything else, testing what this information might actually do. But he tells me he's holding his cards close. He hasn't given her the tapes either.

[Stephen Harris]

I want Sarah. I want to promise like I want an inviting sign that they're going to go after her. These four.

[Mark]

Listen, Andrew getting out and Sarah are two different things. You have to understand.

[Stephen Harris]

I don't think so. I don't think. I don't think so.

[Mark]

They are 100.

[Stephen Harris]

Whatever it is, I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get him writing whatever I need to get in writing from them, saying that we are going to press charges against Sarah. And that's. Look, that's the only way I move forward with them. Like, I gotta have that guaranteed.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

I suggest to Steven that he go in there with an attorney, but he feels stubbornly confident that he can handle it on his own.

[Stephen Harris]

I'm gonna see how this plays out. You're definitely my backup. You're my backup plan. If this does not play out the way I want to, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna fight anymore over this. If they don't want to do what I want them to do. I mean, I'm not gonna go through any more hell doing this. I'll send you and Jason all y' all stuff, and I'll just let y'.

All go about it.

And I have no doubt I got what I wanted. Well, I'm not giving anything.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

Are you gonna sit there and play him for.

[Philip]

Yeah.

[Stephen Harris]

I mean, that's the only way I can move forward with it, I think. I'm not gonna leave them with the tapes, but I'm gonna let her hear enough of the tapes where it didn't, you know, indicates her. And she knows a bunch of the story anyway.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

I tell him I'm after the same thing he is. The truth. That if we want clarity, the only way forward is to share what he has. He doesn't commit, he stays cautious, and that's where we leave it. I'm left unsettled, confused by how two people chasing the same answer can feel so misaligned.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

You sound not excited. Are you just, like, mind blown? Yeah. And I just. I'm just trying not to cry because I just.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

I don't.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

I don't even know. Like, I'm hoping all this is true. Right. And I'm hoping that he's not working with me.

[Mark]

Did you play the confession for Lorna?

[Stephen Harris]

I did certain parts.

[Mark]

Did you play Sarah saying that?

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Confessing, though?

[Stephen Harris]

Yes.

[Mark]

So I. I just don't think there's anything that could go wrong with that. Andrew is not getting out before they're prosecuting Sarah.

[Stephen Harris]

You say that, but Memphis is a different. It's a different breed here.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

There's not much Stephen shares with me about this meeting with the DA's office, but the sense I get is it didn't go as he hoped.

[Mark]

Well, then no one is ever going to be able to convince you of that, Stephen. And that's where I'm kind of hitting my head against the wall here, because I don't want to pressure you to give her or me or Jason the tapes, because then you feel pressured, and then you feel like somebody has an agenda. But I promise you, and I think if you've talked to Mark, nothing is going to happen. They will not prosecute Sarah if you don't hand the tapes over. So all of this is in your hands. Either you can hand over the tape and they cross. Oh, you did send it to them.

[Stephen Harris]

About an hour ago. Yes.

[Mark]

So how do you feel about that?

[Stephen Harris]

Oh, sick to my stomach. That's why I'm calling you.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

This is when I tell Stephen I have news of my own. I didn't want to keep circling the same ground or waiting for permission to move forward, so I set my own meeting with Lorna McCluskey and her team, and he tells me to end it, to not go without him.

[Mark]

I'm getting a little bit offended by. I'm a little.

[Stephen Harris]

End it.

[Mark]

End it? What do you mean?

[Stephen Harris]

You said you're getting offended.

[Mark]

I'm getting a little bit offended with you. You getting upset that you can't be in the meeting with me?

[Stephen Harris]

You said I was upset.

[Mark]

Okay, then if this isn't upset, then great.

[Stephen Harris]

I'm just.

[Mark]

I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you.

[Stephen Harris]

I'm just trying to. I get that. I'm just trying to figure out everybody else.

[Mark]

I'm irritated if you're irritated that you can't come into the message meeting.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

It's not all for Andrew.

[Mark]

It shouldn't be all for Andrew. And that's not what. That's not my point in anything. It should all be for finding the answers. It should all be for you and your family. That's who it's all for.

[Stephen Harris]

That's the last thing people think about when y' all talk about this.

[Mark]

Well, then you should thank me for being there, because that's all I'm talking about.

[Stephen Harris]

Let me ask you something. If I gave you the recording, would you still go down there?

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Yes.

[Mark]

Why would I not go down there?

[Stephen Harris]

If I gave you the recording, would you need anything? Would you. What else would you need?

[Mark]

Why would you not want me to go down there?

[Stephen Harris]

Nothing. I'm just asking.

[Mark]

If I had the choice of the Sarah tapes or meeting with the D A, I would want the Serra tapes, but I also want to know that.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

I'm getting all of them.

[Stephen Harris]

What if they're not getting all of them?

[Mark]

Then I don't think that you're doing anybody any justice by sitting on anything.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Like. What the.

[Mark]

What are you going to do with tapes just sitting there?

[Stephen Harris]

Make a bigger story out of it for you?

[Mark]

Listen, this is what's happening. This is where I'm getting frustrated. I'm not going to be played. I'm just not.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Steve. Yeah.

[Mark]

And I'm to the point that I think you're playing me. And this is where. Because you're. Now you're saying that you didn't turn over all the tapes and. And that you're holding stuff back, and it just makes me think you're lying to me. It's just getting to the point now. That, like, I'm just gonna do the podcast. If you want to send me the tapes. Great. Send me the tapes.

[Stephen Harris]

Calm down. First of all, I don't know you. You're doing a show on this. This is my life. I mean, I'm living this.

[Mark]

I know it's your life, Stephen.

[Stephen Harris]

Stephanie, I caught. You were the first person I talked to after I got the recordings from Sarah and I told you everything. You're the only person that's gotten a full recording for McNee at all.

[Mark]

I'm not arguing with you about this because you're not going to tell me the truth. And that's where I feel like we are. I feel like you want to act like you're telling me the truth and you want to tell me that you're being honest with me about everything, but I don't think you are. And it also bothers me that, like, you don't want me to talk to Jason and, like, why. Why can't all this be above board? I don't. I don't get it. You didn't give the DA all of the tapes. Like.

[Stephen Harris]

No, I gave her. I get. No, I gave her the. The one that explained that says Andrew was innocent and that she did the killing.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Okay.

[Stephen Harris]

That was the. That's the main.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

That's. That's fine.

[Mark]

That's fine.

[Stephen Harris]

But the other ones. The other ones are the ones where she puts herself in the apartment cleaning up. I didn't want to muddy the waters just yet. Figured I'd hang on to that until whatever they needed ain't. Give them all the recordings.

[Mark]

I think that's ridiculous. If you didn't. If they're. If she's admitting to more parts of the murder that you're not giving them, how can they do their job?

[Stephen Harris]

They can do the job because they needed. They needed somebody to say that Andrew wasn't there.

[Mark]

You're making it more complicated by not handing them over everything and letting people help you. You don't get that. And I think that's coming across as being hard on you. This is why you have to let people help you. You've done an amazing job investigating this. At least let Jason see it. At least let Mark see it. Let somebody else help you decide what you should give to Lorna.

[Stephen Harris]

Stephanie, I'll give you the tapes I'm not giving. And the reason why I said I didn't want you talking to Jason is because I have the most to gain and lose from this. This is my real life. But hear me out. When I'm saying don't tell Jason I was talking to you, and vice versa is because if he knew something and I could figure out who, first of all, I don't know who was what to me.

[Mark]

You're right.

[Stephen Harris]

Right. So I. I'm playing both sides because I need to. I need to know who I can trust.

[Mark]

I'm telling you, as of right now, I'm done being played.

[Stephen Harris]

Well, who. You. Who played you? Because you're the only person that got everything.

[Mark]

I haven't heard any of these tapes. I don't know they exist. I don't know that they're real. It rubbed me the wrong way when you're trying to hold stuff back and trying to get me not to talk.

[Stephen Harris]

To the DA because you don't believe I have it.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

I don't think you would go this to this extent if you didn't have it.

[Mark]

But there is something in me that's like, what is this? Like, does he really have it? Is this, like some big ploy that he's just wanting to know what me and Jason know so him and his brothers can keep Andrew in jail?

[Stephen Harris]

But hear me out. Hear me out. I'm skating around.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

I'm.

[Stephen Harris]

I'm trying to protect my brothers. So I have a lot of going on, not to mention on a daily basis, talk to a person that's admitted to killing my father. And by the way, I had to send her $75 today on Venmo. She's my second wife, Basically now got me paying them bills.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

The stakes are high, and by this point, the emotions are even higher. We're both running on too little sleep and too much hope. Desperate for something good to come out of all of this, for justice to finally land somewhere, I take a breath, reset, and we find some steady footing.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

We compromise, figure out what you can.

[Stephen Harris]

Get signed, what type of paperwork you can get to me that states this stuff will not come out, leaked, used in any way that I don't approve of, and you can have them.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Done. Hey.

[Lorna McCluskey]

How are you?

[Mark]

Good.

[Lorna McCluskey]

I'm very pleased to meet you.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

It was an unusually warm day for Memphis. October 2, 2025, 87 degrees, and I felt it. Clark Chapman, the original investigator from Andrew's trial, helped me arrange the meeting and agreed to come with me. Clark's known Lorna McCluskey for decades, crossing paths in the hallway of 201 Poplar, the courthouse that's become its own character in this story. The very same building Andrew walked into thinking he was helping the police and where his life ended up collapsing the very same building we walked into today.

[Mark]

Hey guys, how are you?

[Lorna McCluskey]

These are our interns.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Nice to meet you. I'm Jackson.

[Stephen Harris]

Hello.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Travis.

[Stephen Harris]

How you doing?

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Clark, Chip. Clark, Chip.

[Philip]

Nice to meet you.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

We were met by Lorna herself and two bright eyed interns who were the only ones smiling. A legal assistant who whispered that she loved my show and DA Steve Mulroy who called in to join the conversation. We crowded into a windowless conference room. Me and Clark on one side of an oval table and their entire team crossed, crammed in on the other side.

[Lorna McCluskey]

We've got over 500 closed. We have 100 open. And you know, they're still coming in very slowly. Not as fast as they were.

[Mark]

600 cases, 500 closed.

[Lorna McCluskey]

Yeah. And there's more than 100 open and five over the. Over 500 are closed.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

After 20 minutes of posturing, we finally got to the reason why I was there. I came to understand two things, to be exact. Would they open an investigation into Sarah and would they bring in the tbi, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation?

[Mark]

What do you think about Andrew's case?

[Lorna McCluskey]

This is a case that I've always been interested in from the beginning. And it of course went away and we.

[Mark]

How did it go away when you.

[Lorna McCluskey]

It went away because he filed the air for notice. There was no longer an air error quorum nobis in court.

[Mark]

Right.

[Lorna McCluskey]

So we had other cases that were in court and had higher triage numbers. So since we had no mechanism to do.

[Mark]

When the judge dismissed the hearing.

[Lorna McCluskey]

Is that what you know, Dismissed the air quorum. He had a motion to reopen and that air quorum notice.

[Mark]

Right.

[Lorna McCluskey]

The judge summarily dismissed.

[Mark]

Right, right.

[Lorna McCluskey]

Hearing or anything else.

[Mark]

Right.

[Lorna McCluskey]

So that meant.

[Mark]

So that stops your investigation.

[Lorna McCluskey]

It wouldn't normally just stop it, but we don't have enough people if we. See, here's the thing. I can spend months on a case and then know that somebody was wrongfully convicted. Congratulations, Lauren. I hope you sleep better at night. Now go work on another case. There's no mechanism for prosecutors to get that in front of the judge.

[Mark]

Wait, say that again. So you can.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

You can determine someone has been wrongfully convicted but then are powerless to do anything?

[Lorna McCluskey]

Pretty much, yeah. Because if you're gonna bring something into court, you've gotta have a procedure.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

At this point, all I wanted to know was their next move.

[Mark]

There is a confession from Sarah Lucas saying that she and her mother are the ones that killed Danny Harris and that Andrew was never there. How does that change things for you?

[DA Steve Mulroy]

Well, I Mean, it's. It changes things quite a lot. I mean, that is new information that was not available to the court the last time the court turned down the defendant's motion. That, you know, is certainly material.

[Tamarion]

Right.

[DA Steve Mulroy]

I mean, it raises substantial doubt about the validity of the original conviction of Mr. Hayes. And that's something that we need to take very seriously.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

This was DA Steve Mulroy speaking, and a solid start. But not the exact promise I was hoping for.

[Mark]

No, it's. It's fine. And so I am so happy to be sitting here with y' all today. There is nothing that I want to do to mess up this investigation. I only want to help. I only want to be here to help Andrew. I only want to see Sarah behind bars, and I want to know how I can help.

[DA Steve Mulroy]

Okay, well, you know, Lorna can help you with that. I'll just say that what's unusual about this case is that you have the victim's family open to the idea that maybe a mistaken been made. You know, not only open to, but one member actually, you know, providing evidence. Very often, you know, you don't have that. You have the victim's family being very, very sensitive about any suggestion whatsoever that the original conviction might be subject to question. So let's say it's an unusual situation and a more favorable situation from the perspective of someone who's trying to, you know, overturn the conviction than is normally the case. I told him, and I'll tell you right now, I can't guarantee anything.

[Tamarion]

Right.

[DA Steve Mulroy]

We have a process we go through. But I can say that we're not dismissing anything. We're taking it all very seriously. Just as we're taking seriously the idea that the original conviction might be invalid, we're also taking very seriously the idea that there may be some. Someone else that needs to be prosecuted. You know, we're gonna. We're gonna be investigating it.

[Mark]

Do you think that the Memphis PD would investigate Sarah, or do you think you need to bring in the TBI because of Chris and Brandon Harris connection?

[Lorna McCluskey]

See, those are the two brothers. One, the one that worked for Shelby county, and the other is mpd.

[Mark]

They still work.

[Lorna McCluskey]

I hadn't thought about that. I hadn't thought about that. But I would like. We can certainly think it through. I think the mpd, because there were law enforcement. You know, this man had members of law enforcement, and, you know, as their family members, you know, they're gonna solve it, and they're gonna solve it fast.

[Mark]

Yeah, it's your dad.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

They want you.

[Lorna McCluskey]

I think it was probably incredibly emotional. And because it was one of their own, I mean, we all know that's what many police officers do. They solve the crime in their head, and then they pick which facts make it work. And they go, there. There you go. This is how. This is how it goes. We have to investigate it. It would be nice if people could walk in the dorm and go, okay, thank you. We're gonna run with that, but you can see how bad that would be. Yeah, We've got to independently investigate now. This case is number one for us, which means all of us are working on it. It's number one right now. Nothing comes in front of this. This is number one. So we're going to be on it.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

On the surface, things felt productive, like we were aligned. But my gut kept telling me it wasn't enough, that something still needed to be set in motion. We talked through the case for nearly two hours, and at the end of it, I left them with a warning if no action was taken within 30 days. I was prepared to place Sara Lucas confession on the podcast, not to embarrass anyone, but because I felt a responsibility to expose a system that might once again choose to look the other way. It was a gambler, a bluff, really, because I didn't actually have the tape. She just had to believe I did.

[Mark]

Wonderful, Wonderful. Well, listen, I appreciate it. Nice to meet you all.

[Tamarion]

Yeah.

[Lorna McCluskey]

If you worried or concerned, pick up.

[Stephen Harris]

The phone and call me.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

A week later, there's no news. So Stephen and his older brother Philip set up another meeting with lorna in the DA's office. This time, they come prepared. Stephen takes my advice and asks my husband Mark to go with them as their representative presentation.

[Philip]

I just knew that she was pissed that I was.

[Stephen Harris]

That.

[Philip]

That I was involved in. In any way.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Afterwards, I asked Mark how it went.

[Philip]

And so it starts with me being proactive, trying to. To assure her that. That I am there to help get the things that she needs. She was very defensive, and quite frankly, I don't remember exactly what she was saying other than she really wasn't showing them, in my opinion, any sort of empathy for the position that they were in.

[Mark]

How did the meeting end?

[Philip]

I felt like, based on what I was being told, that they were taking it seriously, but they had to verify certain things.

[Stephen Harris]

But they're very.

[Philip]

You know, they played everything very close to the vest, too. So they weren't. They were. They were very cryptic. We didn't get a lot of information, and I never got a call back.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

The way they were treated in the second meeting, it didn't sit right with Mark. And to Stephen, the promises now felt deceiving. We weren't hearing back from Lorna. None of us were. Once again, I'd felt back in a place I'd become familiar with since starting this case. Stuck. So I did what I'd also learned to do in moments like this. I pushed the worry down and kept moving, moving, convinced that if I stayed focused on the work, the rest would fall into place. In doing that, I missed something important. I missed Stephen. I forgot to check in after that second meeting. And it wasn't until I finally stepped out of my own way. Remembering this story was never just mine that I realized Stephen was pissed off. And not only that, he changed his mind.

[Unknown Supporter/Friend]

I'm not worried.

[Stephen Harris]

I'll text Mark this weekend. That or tonight or whenever I get a chance that it's okay for you to listen to it.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Suddenly, I had it. The piece that could change everything. Andrew Hayes, his family, the entire shape of this case. I had the 10 tape of Sarah Lucas's confession.

[Mark]

Thank you for listening to everything they missed.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

Follow me on social media he Stephanie Tinsley for extended interviews and deeper details into the story. And visit us [e-mail] to see photos, videos, or leave a voice message for me on our tip line if you.

[Mark]

Think you have information to help this case. Also, don't forget to follow, rate and review this show.

[Stephanie Tinsley]

It helps more than you know.