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- [00:00]
A
Oh, hey, love your shoes. If you're hearing this, this is your sign to try those on. Trust us, you can totally pull them off. In fact, try on every shoe here if you want. We won't stop you. In our house, you've got unlimited freedom to play. And hey, fall is the perfect season to do wear. Be whatever you want. And with tons of shoes that get you at prices that get your budget.
- [00:24]
B
We'Ll give you something to brag about. So go ahead, try them on.
- [00:28]
A
Let us surprise you. Limu Emu and Doug.
- [00:33]
C
Here we have the Limu Emu in.
- [00:36]
A
Its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.
- [00:44]
C
Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [00:48]
D
Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera.
- [00:52]
C
They see us.
- [00:52]
D
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes Massachusetts.
- [01:01]
A
The following story discusses individuals connected to the case of Danny Harris. Except for those previously convicted in this matter, no one mentioned in this series has been officially named a suspect, person of interest or found guilty of any crime related to his death.
- [01:20]
B
I never do something like that again. You couldn't talk to nobody. Couldn't even talk to the person in the room, which there was nothing you could do.
- [01:28]
A
I hired a private investigator to track down the jurors from Andrew Hayes trial. Curious what, if anything, they remembered all these years later.
- [01:38]
B
We didn't have no telephone, no radio, no nothing. We just had a dark room. All us sit up in there, we could play cards or something. But you couldn't talk about nothing. You couldn't call nobody. You couldn't do nothing.
- [01:50]
A
This was juror number 48, one of 14. From what I can tell, the panel was a mix of black and white jurors and one of Indian descent. And like this juror 63, most of them were women.
- [02:04]
B
Now, I had been on jury before that, but that was the first time I had been sequestered.
- [02:12]
A
Now I had been on jury, the jury was sequestered. That's not typical for a case like this. It meant they weren't going home at night and they were staying in a hotel. Paired up with strangers, they were school teachers, health care workers, one on military leave, a lab tech, someone from the VA and an office manager.
- [02:36]
B
I hated jury duty. I just thought that was ridiculous. And we had to be locked up like, you know, be kept up like that. I never wanted to be on jury duty again. I could tell you that Some were.
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A
Married with kids, others single. Different lives, different views. I just remember being bored to death. But I kept finding there was one thing they all seemed to share.
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C
I just remember that being pretty traumatizing.
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A
Why was it traumatizing?
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B
Because I didn't feel comfortable with it at all. I want to forget it.
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C
I truly want to forget it.
- [03:16]
A
14 strangers tasked with one decision that would define a man's life. And most of them wished they'd never been a part of it. I'm Stephanie Tinsley, and this is everything they missed. Episode 414 Strangers hello sir, this is Elizabeth. I got a crew with me. I see. Hopefully that's okay.
- [03:54]
C
That's frightening. Come on in.
- [03:56]
A
Hopefully that's okay.
- [03:58]
C
Oh, it sound good, it sounds good.
- [04:00]
E
Good to see you again.
- [04:02]
A
It was just after lunch when I pulled up to a row of offices in downtown Memphis, a few blocks from 201 Poplar, the Justice center where Andrew's case was tried. Outside, a line had formed out of one. It was about a dozen people, some holding cash, all waiting to see a man they called Mr. G. Inside his office, the lobby was packed, the energy anxious. It didn't feel like people were waiting for legal help. It felt like they were waiting for a lifeline. Mr. G. His full name, Coleman Garrett, eventually came out and nodded toward me, saying, I'll be right with you. And then I waited for nearly an hour until the lobby finally started to thin and he called me in. Do you remember when you first took him on as a client? Did you think that he was competent to stand trial?
- [04:56]
C
I did. I mean, he may not have been as sharp as sniper in the draw, but he understood the process. He understood assist with it, what have you. And he fought.
- [05:08]
A
Coleman Garrett's been practicing law for 52 years. He calls himself a Mississippi cotton field Emmett Tillbaby, coming from a place and time where injustice was built into the soil. And judging by the line outside his office, he's in major demand. But back in 2010, he was assigned to Andrew's case as a court appointed attorney. Like he told me when I first called him, it wasn't because he needed the work.
- [05:36]
C
He.
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A
He just likes to stay in it.
- [05:40]
C
To be fortunate enough to participate in this arena. This is not a job. This is a commitment I got from the temporary murder trial starting Monday morning. And I'm 81 years old and I'm just. I get just psyched about this business now, as I did 35 years ago.
- [06:03]
A
A sweltering Monday morning, August 16, 2010, is when he stepped into the courthouse for Andrew Hayes trial three years after Andrew was first locked up. I've read every word of the trial transcript. Thousands of lines. And what you're about to hear are the moments that matter. Moments that were a turning point. Good morning.
- [06:27]
F
State of Tennessee vs. Andrew Hayes, case number 08.
- [06:31]
A
The gallery filled with Danny Harris supporters, his ex wife Suzanne, their sons, as well as a group of Shelby county law enforcement officers in uniform. Andrew's family was there as well. His mother, grandmother, brother and sister. Proceedings began when Judge Blackett took her seat at the bench and Andrew was led into the room. The defendant in this case is charged with first degree murder in count one of. Intellectually, I've served as a juror in an attempted murder trial in Nashville. I remember the weight of it, the pride, the pressure, the resolve to stay focused on the facts. Still, when the defendant walked in, I couldn't help but think, what did you do? And that day, when Andrew quietly took a seat beside his lawyer, he was dressed in jail scrubs. To his family, it was a gut punch to the jury. I can only imagine what they saw. They said something about him having disabilities, educational disabilities.
- [07:33]
B
He looked like a little weak person, like he could really do nothing like that.
- [07:38]
A
You're right, he did come in jail clothes, you're automatically guilty. Both sides presented their openings, the state and the defense. And because I had the transcripts, I asked Coleman Garrett if he'd be willing to read his aloud.
- [07:53]
C
I've only been doing this for about 30 years, and every time I find myself in this position, I'm very nervous. These are serious matters. In this particular case, I'm even more nervous because I believe what you're about to hear. The indicting and the putting Andrew Haynes on trial for first degree murder based upon the fact in this case is the greatest miscarriage of justice since Gregory Peck played Attica Finch and To Kill a Mockingbird.
- [08:27]
A
Garrett told the jury the evidence would prove Andrew, a man with mild intellectual disability, had never met Danny, never been to his home. He turned the spotlight on the lead detectives, their ties to the show, the first 48, and the fact that the victim's son was a deputy. That they had every reason to wrap up this case fast. And they did. He explained how Andrew came to the station on his own, how he got caught up in a name mix up, willingly spoke with officers and eventually broke down under pressure, confessing to a murder he didn't commit.
- [09:04]
C
What they won't be able to show you is that there's any evidence whatsoever that Andrew Hayes was ever there. No fingerprints, no hair samples, no fiber samples, no independent eyewitnesses, no deeds, DNA, no motive. That's enough.
- [09:26]
A
Garrett finished on a promise saying, quote, I intend to show that Andrew Hayes has nothing to do with this case, and then I'm going to show you who committed this murder.
- [09:39]
D
We've talked about the case, but there's a lot of fluff in the trial, right?
- [09:44]
A
My husband, Mark Tinsley, is a veteran trial lawyer with 25 years of courtroom experience. So trials are a regular dinner table conversation in my house. When I started digging through the transcripts, I'll admit I was a little overwhelmed. He's right. There's a lot of fluff. Witness after witness, sidebars at the bench, sometimes over real issues, sometimes over things that felt downright petty. At times, it read like a long front porch argument. So much talk and not much said. So I asked him to help me see what the jury saw and more importantly, what they didn't.
- [10:25]
D
So the first thing I see in the prosecution's opening is this glaring opportunity for the defense to point out the perfect piece of evidence. It is something, when people look at it, there is only one conclusion. You know, it's like gravity. It always works. We understand it. We might not can explain it, but. But we know what it is and how it works.
- [10:50]
A
Prosecutor Missy Branham laid out the state's argument. Tammy Vance had fallen out with her ex, Danny Harris, and decided to rob him of his tv. But she couldn't do it alone. So she turned to someone younger and stronger, Andrew Hayes, and somehow the robbery went wrong and Andrew killed Danny Harris. It's a tidy version of events, but the more you sit with it, the more you turn it over, you start to notice the gaps.
- [11:20]
D
To me, when the lead prosecutor says in her opening statement that Tammy met in a chat room with Danny, somehow came to be involved in his life, and they had a falling out for some reason, but she says, and driving his very, very big truck. And so the thing that jumps out at me is, how do you ignore the fact that you've got this woman for a short period of time in a very casual relationship in your life, and you let her leave in your very big, expensive truck that, oh, by the way, we learn later, you still paying for it. You just wouldn't do it. It wouldn't happen. And you damn sure wouldn't do it for, well, any period of time, but for months or whatever it is. And, oh, the state's motive of robbery was for what? A TV that nobody could Carry, apparently. And they couldn't even sell because it was so old. So for what? It just makes no sense. And if it makes no sense, the state didn't meet its burden.
- [12:28]
A
Testimony began with the state's first witnesses. First Danny's ex wife, then Snow. Neither offered much. Then came a surprise. A witness that was, in my opinion, unexpected. We've had voice actors recreate the transcripts.
- [12:47]
F
Please spell your first and last name.
- [12:50]
B
Sarah Lucas.
- [12:51]
A
S A, R, a H. From what I've gathered, the woman who walked into court that day didn't match the Sarah I'd heard about. She looked church ready, with glasses on, hair neatly done and a conservative dress. A far cry from someone with priors for drugs and prostitution. I was surprised Sarah testified at all. After all, her mother had now accused her of the murder. But then I saw the trial records. The state flew her in from Houston. A round trip flight for $1,400. They put her up at the Crowne Plaza downtown. And before she took the stand, they cleared every open warrant she had. Every single one.
- [13:39]
F
And what did you think of Danny Harris?
- [13:42]
B
He was a very, very nice man. He was very respectful.
- [13:48]
A
Sarah testified that she'd only been to Danny's apartment twice. That she, her mom and her boyfriend all moved into Snow's place around the same time. And that anything she pawned was because her mom asked her to. Then, in what reads like a light toss up, Branham asked, did she kill Danny herself?
- [14:10]
B
No, ma'. Am. I could never hurt anybody like that.
- [14:14]
A
Coleman Garrett didn't ask so nicely.
- [14:18]
E
You don't have any personal knowledge of Andrew Hayes being involved in Mr. Danny Harris death, do you?
- [14:24]
B
No, I don't. I didn't have no personal knowledge of my mother being involved of it either.
- [14:29]
E
Weren't you there when it happened?
- [14:31]
B
No, I wasn't.
- [14:32]
E
Weren't you in the house that day?
- [14:34]
B
No, I wasn't.
- [14:36]
E
Did you see your mother that day?
- [14:38]
B
No.
- [14:39]
A
Coleman Garrett tried to land a connection. He asked Sarah if she was with Tammy and Danny the day of the murder and reminded her that according to her own mother, the three of them had crossed state lines that day to get a new id.
- [14:54]
E
When is the last time you were in Arkansas?
- [15:00]
B
It's been a very, very long time.
- [15:03]
E
Didn't you go to Arkansas the day that Mr. Harris was murdered with he and your mom? Didn't you all go to Arkansas on August 20, 2007 for you to get that ID?
- [15:15]
B
I didn't go with Mr. Harris.
- [15:17]
E
How did you get there?
- [15:18]
B
I have other friends.
- [15:20]
E
On August 20th. You went to Arkansas to get an ID.
- [15:24]
B
A state ID I don't remember.
- [15:27]
E
You don't? Do you have your identification with you?
- [15:31]
B
No. It's in the car. It's at my motel.
- [15:35]
E
Let me have you look at this document, Ms. Lucas. Who is that A picture of?
- [15:43]
B
Me.
- [15:44]
E
And what is that?
- [15:46]
B
My ID.
- [15:47]
E
From where?
- [15:49]
B
Arkansas.
- [15:51]
E
From what date?
- [15:53]
B
August 20, 2007.
- [15:57]
A
That was the day of the murder. Sarah didn't have a car. She would have needed a ride to the dmv. Yet she kept denying the trip. Not that I can remember, she said again and again. So Garrett leaned in. Why would her own mother serving life lie on her own flesh and blood? He asked.
- [16:18]
B
I don't know, but I didn't do anything.
- [16:22]
A
Sarah denied, deflected, and skated right by. And Garrett. It read like he just let things slide. Not even a full day on the stands. And? And Sarah Lucas returned to her hotel, boarded her flight, and left Memphis. This time for good.
- [16:46]
B
And I remember them saying that he wasn't there, but then implemented that he was doing that, too. And Joe was confusing. Now, I do remember the part it was brought out, how long they kept him in interrogation. But that's not saying that I knew that was the process that was supposed to happen.
- [17:07]
A
It really pisses me off, if you want to know the truth. We didn't know more about his disability. After a string of procedural witnesses from the crime scene to the arrest, the state called Lt. Bart Ragland, one of the lead officers in Andrew's interrogation.
- [17:25]
G
And as we kept talking to him, his story kept changing. Like the truck. You ever seen Tammy with the truck? Yeah, but I never been in it. And then it was, well, yeah, I've been in it. It was just his story kept changing and changing and changing.
- [17:40]
A
Reading the transcript, this is where I stopped. Because Ragland was the man in the room when the recorder wasn't running. And now he was offering the jury his statement of what happened behind closed doors. He claimed no one pressured Andrew or fed him details. He just shifted on his own. He also claimed Andrew understood his rights, but also admitted in the same moment that Andrew couldn't read the first line on the page. That stuck with me. Because if you can't read what's in front of you, can you really understand what you're agreeing to? However, what came next felt damning. The prosecution handed Ragland Andrew's statement, and he read it out loud. Andrew's own words saying he hit Danny Harris in the head. I asked Coleman Garrett if he remembered what he thought in that moment.
- [18:32]
C
I mean, what happens in reality and what you're told is just two different things. We got some bad cops, and I don't want to bad mouth the police. That's not what I'm talking about. About. But they know that people that don't understand the system and don't understand the kind of pressure under those circumstances will not believe that you would confess to a murder if you didn't do it. Well, just to put it this way, some people not as strong as others. Andrew was not a strong person.
- [19:13]
A
Coleman Garrett fired back at Ragland, challenging him on his interrogation training.
- [19:20]
E
And do you have any names as far as specific techniques that you're supposed to use during the interrogation to get the truth?
- [19:29]
G
Well, the Reid technique. Body language is a big thing. And then just continually hammering the suspect with the facts of the case. I mean, you're just picking. Just continually picking away at what they're saying to get to the truth.
- [19:43]
E
Well, if you had an individual who had been diagnosed as being mildly retarded, would it make any difference as to what technique you would use in conducting your interrogation?
- [19:55]
G
I don't know that I ever interviewed anybody that was documented retarded.
- [20:00]
A
Ragland said he would have adjusted his approach if someone didn't understand what was being asked. But in this case, he insisted there was no need.
- [20:10]
E
When you asked him what he knew about the case, what was his response?
- [20:13]
G
He told us about the TV going to the house, or, excuse me, to the apartment.
- [20:19]
E
Do you see the second paragraph from the bottom of your supplement that says question Hayes. What he knew about the homicide of victim Danny Harris? And he said nothing. Is that part of your report?
- [20:31]
G
Oh, yeah. And he said nothing? Yes, sir.
- [20:35]
A
Ragland actually admitted he didn't suspect Andrew at first. But when Andrew started shifting small details, like how many times he'd been in Danny's truck, that changed.
- [20:47]
E
And did you consider that significant, that he changed it from once to numerous times?
- [20:53]
G
Well, it goes back to what I said. The truth is the truth is the truth.
- [20:59]
E
Did that make you suspicious of whether he was involved in this case?
- [21:03]
G
And if he was telling us the.
- [21:05]
E
Truth, did he tell you why he was changing his story?
- [21:10]
G
Said he was scared.
- [21:12]
A
Garrett jumped on this detail, stringing out the insignificance and showcasing to the jury how it appeared Raglan was digging for any red flag. So Garrett asked about another change in Andrew's story. And when Andrew first said he'd never seen Tammy with a gun, then later.
- [21:31]
E
Said he had changing his story again, right?
- [21:35]
G
Yep.
- [21:36]
E
Making you more Suspicious, right?
- [21:38]
G
Correct.
- [21:40]
E
Do you think that someone that's never been in that situation before and is in an interview room with two seasoned officers asking him about a gun and crimes he doesn't know anything about would make him scared?
- [21:54]
G
If you're not involved, there's no reason to be scared.
- [21:59]
E
What conclusion did you reach?
- [22:01]
G
That he was lying to us.
- [22:03]
E
Lying to you? Any other conclusion?
- [22:07]
G
That he was involved.
- [22:10]
A
Three hours in Ragland. Finally read Andrew his rights, and satisfied he understood, Andrew waived them. So Garrett asked, quote, if you'd known more about him, his background, his iq, would you have done anything differently?
- [22:27]
E
How about if he's getting a disability check because he's been diagnosed as being mildly retarded?
- [22:34]
G
Well, here you go again. How many people have done that? The case I referred to earlier, this little son of a gun said that he was retarded and was playing the system against everybody telling us he's retarded. But the jail tapes is he's just as sane as anybody. That's a cop out. That's like somebody getting converted in jail til, you know, they find religion. Now, if he told you he's retarded, power to him. He did not indicate to us he was retarded.
- [23:02]
E
How many retarded people do you know to come up to you and tell you I'm retarded?
- [23:08]
G
Have you walked out the front door of 201 Poplar? Holy cow. You're killing me.
- [23:14]
A
Coleman Garrett kept pointing out the cracks in the story, questioning the tactics, raising concerns about Andrew's understanding, suggesting that fear shaped his words. But no matter how Garrett came at it, Ragland held firm, committed to the idea that Andrew was guilty.
- [23:34]
F
Your Honor, at this point, the state rests.
- [23:37]
A
Finally, after the state's 13 witnesses over four days, Coleman Garrett had control over the floor.
- [23:45]
F
Thank you. At this time, the defense may call its first witness.
- [23:48]
A
Please. In all, he called just four witnesses. First, a clinical coordinator who confirmed Andrew's disability. Then Chewana, his ex, the mother of a son. But his third choice didn't seem careless. It felt reckless.
- [24:07]
E
Call your next witness, Andrew Hayes.
- [24:15]
D
Disney's Lilo and Stitch has finally landed on Disney. Now you can watch the global phenomenon at home with your ohana.
- [24:24]
A
Be good for one second. Lilo and Stitch is verified hot on.
- [24:30]
D
Rotten Tomatoes with an audience score of 93%.
- [24:33]
A
Stitch, also cute and fluffy. Disney's Lilo and Stitch.
- [24:37]
D
Stitch, Radio pg now streaming on Disney. And right now you can get Disney.
- [24:41]
A
Hulu and all of espn. With an incredible limited time offer. Terms apply.
- [24:45]
D
Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts.
- [24:59]
A
Four, I use it.
- [25:00]
D
Five, my mom used to say, are.
- [25:02]
A
You, are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com this episode is brought to you by Greenlight. Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat start prioritizing their financial education and future. Today with a risk free trial@greenlight.com Spotify greenlight.com Spotify you swear or affirm that the testimony you give today will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
- [25:52]
D
Yes, ma'.
- [25:53]
B
Am.
- [25:54]
A
The oath you just heard wasn't Andrew Hayes. It was Alex Murdaugh in 2023 on the trial for the murders of his wife and son.
- [26:03]
C
Ms. Murdaugh.
- [26:04]
A
Yes, sir. Good morning.
- [26:06]
D
Good morning.
- [26:07]
A
By then, the Murdaugh case had already made headlines. But day 21 was when things truly exploded because Alex Murdaugh took the stand in his own defense. At this time, I'm going to explain to you certain of your rights. Most lawyers I've talked to say it's rare for a defendant to take the stand and many wouldn't advise it. It's risky. There's too much room to slip up, to seem dishonest or unlikable, and the court knows it. So before Murdaugh took the stand, the judge made a point of pausing, laying out his rights on the record. If you do not understand anything I say, please, please let me know and I will explain it in greater detail. Do you understand?
- [26:58]
C
Yes, sir.
- [27:01]
A
The reason I bring this up is because when Coleman Garrett called Andrew Hayes to the stand, a man fighting for his life, there was no pause, no explanation, no moment to reassure. He didn't have to say a thing. I asked Mark if that was standard or if a moment like that could have made a difference.
- [27:21]
D
I mean, if his lawyer's telling him to get up there, and then suddenly the judge is saying, you don't have to do it. Maybe he doesn't do it, But I think it's such a big issue that it should have been raised, should have been told, should have been explained, and it should have been on the record, if he understood it. I mean. And it's a catastrophic example of why you remain silent, why you don't take the stand.
- [27:49]
A
Coleman Garrett walked Andrew through his version of events. Most of it we already know, such as how quickly the tone changed when he was called back to the station.
- [28:00]
H
And I was like, you all can't just put no murder charge on me for something I didn't do. He said, we can do what the fuck we want to do, and you're not getting away from this.
- [28:08]
A
He said, Lt. Ragland yelled at him for hours.
- [28:12]
H
I just got tired of them just constantly screaming and hollering at me, just hours after hours after hours, constantly telling me that I don't kill somebody. So I asked him. I was like, what the fuck do you want to hear? What you want me to tell you?
- [28:25]
A
He didn't know how to make it stop.
- [28:27]
H
He was like, just tell me what I want to hear. And I was like, what do you want to hear? And he was like, I want you to tell me that you killed Danny Harris. And at this point in time, I'm so tired of being interrogated, screamed and hollered at. I just told him. I just like, yeah, I did it. That's what you want to hear? Yeah, I did it. I killed him.
- [28:47]
A
He told the jury he was shown photos of Danny's apartment, five, maybe more, laid out in front of him, but denied ever being there, denied telling officers that he had. And when Garrett asked what he thought it meant to waive his rights, Andrew.
- [29:02]
H
Answered, I ain't never been in a situation like this, so I couldn't tell you.
- [29:08]
A
Reading it now, I imagine the jury may have considered he was genuine. Andrew stayed calm, answered every question. But if I'm being honest, it didn't make him look any more innocent. If anything, it left room for more questions. But the next part, that's the part that turns my stomach.
- [29:28]
C
I thought when I put Andrew on the witness, and this was, he's innocent, and you put him on the witness stand and let him show. I did not foresee Andrew losing his code on the witness stand.
- [29:50]
A
With every question, prosecutor Missy Branham drew lines back to his confession in ways that felt like they were meant to frustrate him.
- [29:59]
F
So You've never been accused of anything. Meaning you never had to testify, never.
- [30:04]
B
Had to give a statement?
- [30:06]
H
Not that I recall.
- [30:08]
F
Not that you recall. Well, it seems like you'll just kind of say whatever. Is that the case?
- [30:13]
H
No, ma'.
- [30:13]
C
Am.
- [30:14]
A
She brought up Andrew's past and raised her voice as if trying to get him riled up.
- [30:20]
H
You're not gonna make me say that. I do when I don't.
- [30:23]
F
That's right. Because no one can make you say anything, can they?
- [30:27]
H
Screaming at me. Not gonna get you nowhere. Now, we could talk like human beings, but it's not gonna get you nowhere.
- [30:33]
A
She pried, Andrew defended.
- [30:36]
C
So I failed to tell him. Don't let him get under your skin and don't lose your temper and listen to the question and just answer the question that you ask and don't volunteer information. And by all means, be polite to be Curtis. And that was an oversight on my part.
- [30:59]
A
Coleman Garrett was already a sought after attorney back in 2010. He applied for the court appointed jobs just to keep busy and the income steady. But maybe the timing was off. Maybe he was juggling too much. It's hard to say why he didn't prepare Andrew better.
- [31:17]
C
I should have grilled him. I should have grilled him. I've known Missy long enough, but I know how good she is. I didn't do it. I neglected to do it because I didn't see it coming. And I wanted him to be himself. I didn't want him to be coached. I just wanted him to be Andrew.
- [31:39]
A
With no objections, no interruptions. All eyes were on Andrew. It was his moment. The one chance to convince the jury to win, to go home. But he spiraled.
- [31:52]
H
You would get tired of it, too. You really would.
- [31:55]
F
You mean like you're yelling at me right now?
- [31:57]
H
No, because it's the same way they yelled at me. So now you know how it feels to be accused of something that you didn't do. And that ain't right. I don't think that's right.
- [32:04]
F
No, I don't think it's right either.
- [32:06]
H
But you sitting here screaming and yelling at me.
- [32:08]
F
Am I screaming?
- [32:09]
H
But then you expect. You just did what? You expect me to talk to you?
- [32:12]
G
Calm.
- [32:12]
H
They expect me to talk to them. Call. I don't think so. In order to get respect, you got to give it.
- [32:18]
A
Was this a desperate man lying to save his life or an honest one falling apart on the stand? And really, how was the jury supposed to tell the difference?
- [32:28]
D
Well, and he does one really dumb thing and I mean, he says in explaining the why he falsely confessed, he says, they were screaming at me. I was scared. I was nervous like I am now, and I caved them. But I'm not caving now. So, I mean, that's what I'm thinking as I'm reading it. The juror's got to be thinking that, you know, and so it really undermines the. He gets a crazy check, whatever he says to somehow sway them off of the power of that confession. I don't know, it's just. It's a shit show from the word go. And it was apparent that it was going to be a shit show from the word go, which is why I say, oh, he never should have put him on the stand.
- [33:21]
A
Coleman Garrett had one play left, one person left with a story to tell, and by all accounts, may be the only one who knew the truth. Tammy Vance. The thing is, before trial, after much coaxing, Tammy had given a story once to investigator Clark Chapman, then again to Garrett himself. And he decided to bet it all on her words, she said. The day started simple. She, Danny and her daughter Sarah drove to Arkansas the morning of the murder so Sarah could get a new id. On the way back, they stopped at a Circle K convenience store in a Burger King, where Danny snapped when Tammy let the cashier keep the change. And from there, Tammy didn't stop. She piled on detail after detail.
- [34:10]
F
So we drove to his house. He seemed to calm down. I told him I was sorry and asked if he wanted something to eat. I don't know what happened. Then he put the sandwich down, got up, and I thought he was going to hug me. Instead, he balled up his fist and hit me in the head, split my head wide open. I was dazed, fell to the floor. When I came to, Danny wasn't in his recliner. I got up, went to the bedroom, and my daughter, Sarah Lucas, had hit him in the head with a hammer. He was laid back on the bed. I said, sarah, what the fuck are you doing? Have you lost your mind? She hit him again. A couple of times. I told her to stop. I tried to stop her, but she hit me with the hammer. I don't know what happened to her that morning. She lost it. She's seen her daddy hit me before. I dunno, but she lost it that morning.
- [35:09]
A
Coleman Garrett pointed out. What reason would a mother have to pin this on her own child?
- [35:16]
F
I have done everything I can to protect her. Even sending this man to jail. And he didn't even know the man, never saw the man, never been to his apartment. Never even been in that area, as far as I know. So I have protected her to the fullest. And now it's time for me to tell the absolute truth.
- [35:36]
E
Why now?
- [35:37]
F
They are trying to send an innocent man to jail, to prison for the rest of his life. I'm living that life now. And it's bad. You know, it's bad when you didn't do anything.
- [35:49]
A
The story felt like a nail in the coffin, one the prosecution could hardly work around. And Branham tried, but in my view.
- [35:58]
D
Not well, you know, And I think they want you to ignore what Tammy says now, but believe what she said when she implicated Andrew.
- [36:11]
A
The defense wrapped their witnesses in a single day. Tammy Vance was the last called, questioned, and done. Then they moved to closings, and I asked Garrett to read a portion of his final argument.
- [36:24]
C
In my opinion, you know what the right thing to do in this case would be? The right thing to do would be to find Sarah Lucas guilty of second degree murder, cite the prosecutor's office for prosecutorial abuse, cite the homicide office for gross negligence and ineptitude, and apologize to Andrew Hayes and compensate him for the three years that he's been in prison for false imprisonment, aggravated kidnapping, loss of consortium. That would be the right thing to do. Damn, I said that. That's the truth.
- [37:07]
A
It was a muggy Memphis Saturday, the sixth day sequestered. When the jury was asked to deliberate and make a decision, they was not.
- [37:16]
B
Afraid to voice the opinions about what they thought. Those white men that was on jury, they were saying that it's nothing wrong with him. You know, he's acting, he's just playing the role and all this kind of stuff. I felt that he was guilty because he was there with her. That was the way that was presented to us. But I'm thinking that he wasn't there at all. He just got caught in the midst. I did not want to take the future of anyone's life for me to make that choice of whether they did something or not when I did not see it. And then some of them was getting tired. They didn't want to be there no more, so they was trying to rush it up anyway. One lady had an affair or something that she had to do that Saturday. I remember that kept coming up, that she had to go somewhere, do something, whatever. About three or four white people found him innocent, and then rest of them found him guilty. But my roommate, when we was in the room talking, she said that he was innocent. She said, what about you? And to be honest with you, I really didn't think he did it, but I wanted to help him go home. Cause it was my birthday and they was giving me a party. So I went along with those other people.
- [38:48]
A
If the jury isn't clear to you yet, it's about to be. This moment defines the rest of the story. After just four hours of deliberation, the jury came back and they found Andrew Wayne Hayes guilty of first degree murder. The verdict came from a jury that by their own admission, was already worn out. Some had made up their minds before deliberations began. A few voices dominated the room. Others stayed quiet, unsure. And maybe just uncomfortable. And here's the part that makes me shake my head. It stopped me in my tracks the first time I learned about it. One juror, the one eager to get home to her birthday party, also happened to work for the Shelby County Sheriff's office. The same sheriff's office that Danny's son, Chris Harris, worked. Somehow, she stayed on the panel. She helped decide Andrew's fate.
- [39:50]
C
Andrew Hayes, one of my cases that I have dealt with, I don't even know how long now.
- [40:02]
A
What would you have done differently?
- [40:05]
C
I would have prepared Andrew better. After the verdict, the jurors silent out. One of the jurors surpassed me and said, you know, you were doing fine until he. He showed his true colors. And that's what got him convicted. So, my God, I didn't do my job.
- [40:29]
A
Inside the courtroom, Danny Harris family applied, applauded. Andrew's mother sank to the floor. And the police wouldn't let them leave until the gallery cleared out. When they finally walked outside that day, they did so with nothing left. No peace, no answers. Just grief.
- [40:47]
D
This was worse than a fumble. This is when you score against yourself. You dribbled the ball back down the court and you scored it in your own basket.
- [40:59]
A
There was no physical evidence linking Andrew to the murder. No fingerprints, no DNA, no witnesses. Only a confession. One pulled from hours of yelling, of threats, of a man with a seventh grade education being told he wasn't going home until he said what they wanted to hear. And that was enough. It was enough to take his freedom. It was enough to keep him in prison. Prison for the next 18 years. His story's been buried. He's never met his grown son. He's never had a legal army at his side, not once. Until now.
- [41:38]
C
Ms. Tiffany, both trials, and this is my opinion, are lost in Jewish election. Andrew's trial was lost in Jewish election. Can't make those kind of assumptions. You have to do your day at the job.
- [41:55]
A
Wow. I think we're gonna fix it. For reasons of audio clarity, juror number 51's voice was replaced by a voice actress. Thank you for listening to everything they missed. If you want more before next week's episode, follow me on social media hestephanetinsley for extended interviews and deeper details into the story. And visit us anytime@everythingtheymiss.com to see photos, videos, or leave a voice message for me on our tip line if you think you have information to help this case. Also, don't forget to follow, rate and review this show. It helps more than you know.