EEC 362: How to Take Your Leadership to the Next Level, with Stéphane Garelli

Summary

Podcast Summary: Excellent Executive Coaching

Episode: EEC 362: How to Take Your Leadership to the Next Level, with Stéphane Garelli
Host: Dr. Katrina Burrus, PhD, MCC
Guest: Stéphane Garelli
Release Date: December 31, 2024

---

Overview

In this episode, Dr. Katrina Burrus talks with Stéphane Garelli, renowned professor of competitiveness and founder of IMD’s World Competitiveness Center. Drawing on his rich experience as an academic, chair of major institutions, and corporate leader, Garelli shares profound insights on leadership, navigating boardroom roles, career direction, and how competitiveness shapes lives and organizations. This conversation is peppered with personal anecdotes, practical guidance for executives, and memorable advice for those striving to elevate their leadership effectiveness.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Stéphane Garelli’s Multi-faceted Background

• [00:10] Garelli introduces himself, highlighting roles at the World Economic Forum, IMD, University of Lausanne, as well as his positions as chairman and member of several significant organizations.
  • “So a very diverse experience, extensive experience.” — Stéphane Garelli

On Leadership and Creating Followers

• [01:25] Defining good leadership: Garelli emphasizes that beyond energy and passion, true leaders create followers who share their vision and passion.
  • “A good leader creates followers. And this is something important.” — Stéphane Garelli [01:35]
• [01:59] He observes that many leaders are “completely alone,” lacking true buy-in from others—one of leadership’s biggest modern challenges.
  • "The real function of a leader is to take people with you and to make sure that they share your passion, that they share your vision... that's not as easy as it seems." — Stéphane Garelli [01:53]

Difference Between Chairman and CEO

• [02:29] Drawing a vivid analogy, Garelli likens the chairman’s role to a “spare wheel” — largely unnoticed until a crisis emerges.
  • “When you are a chairman, you are a little bit like the spare wheel in your car... you don't know where is your spare wheel until you have a problem.” — Stéphane Garelli [02:29]
• [03:02] He explains the CEO is action-oriented, responsible for management, while the chairman ensures proper oversight, ethics, and compliance—responsibilities that have become ever more crucial in today’s climate of transparency.

Influence and Communication: Lessons from Remarkable Leaders

• [03:27] Garelli shares how working with global leaders like French Prime Minister Raymond Barre and British Prime Minister Ted Heath had a profound impact on his own leadership.
• [03:51] Notably, Heath advised him:
  • “Don’t make a speech, speak to people... If they feel you communicate with them... you have this kind of special relationship, and everything will go fine. This probably was the best advice I ever got.” — Stéphane Garelli [03:51]

Career Challenges and the ‘Pyramid’ Analogy

• [04:30] On overcoming setbacks, Garelli underscores the importance of loyalty and ethics—but also of pursuing a personal agenda.
  • “...In life, you should be committed, you should be loyal, ethical, to the job you have. But never forget your personal agenda. It’s fair enough to have a personal agenda. It’s fair enough to know where you want to go in life, do it honestly.” — Stéphane Garelli [04:31]
• [05:00] He introduces the metaphor of the pyramid: sometimes, after reaching the top, the only way to progress is to “climb down and go up another.” This requires courage and foresight.
  • “Always think about the next step. A leader is somebody who has a sense of direction... If you don’t know where you are going, don’t tell it. If you are a leader, keep it for yourself. Pretend, decide until you find out.” — Stéphane Garelli [05:42]

On His Book: "Are You a Tiger, a Cat or a Dinosaur?"

• [05:48] The book contains 100 questions exploring the impact of competitiveness on daily life, intended to be engaging and accessible.
  • “I’ve written a lot of things which are academic and profoundly boring on competitiveness and I felt I should show people it has an impact on our life, it has an impact on the way we behave, on the way companies treat us.” — Stéphane Garelli [06:03]
• [06:22] The book covers leadership, product expectations, and learning from failure, making economics relevant and relatable.

Habits for Success: Lateral Thinking

• [06:49] Garelli reveals a key habit: never reading economics after 9 PM to avoid overthinking and to encourage intellectual curiosity in other fields.
  • “...I deeply believe that if you want to be good at what you are doing, you should have the curiosity to look at other things... it’s lateral thinking... sometimes I felt were worthwhile actually I got them not from economics but from elsewhere.” — Stéphane Garelli [07:10]
• [07:34] He concludes that exposure to diverse disciplines often sparks innovative ideas in one’s primary field—his “aha effect."

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “A good leader creates followers. And this is something important.” — Stéphane Garelli [01:35]
• “When you are a chairman, you are a little bit like the spare wheel in your car.” — Stéphane Garelli [02:29]
• “Don’t make a speech, speak to people... If they feel you communicate with them... you have this kind of special relationship.” — Stéphane Garelli (quoting Ted Heath) [03:51]
• “Always think about the next step. A leader is somebody who has a sense of direction.” — Stéphane Garelli [05:42]
• “If you want to be good at what you are doing, you should have the curiosity to look at other things... it’s lateral thinking.” — Stéphane Garelli [07:10]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10 — Stéphane Garelli's brief introduction
• 01:25 — Garelli’s definition of good leadership
• 02:29 — Differentiating chairman and CEO roles
• 03:27 — Influences and lessons from global leaders
• 04:30 — Career challenges & the pyramid analogy
• 05:48 — The book "Are You a Tiger, a Cat or a Dinosaur?"
• 06:49 — Habits for success and importance of lateral thinking

---

Final Thoughts

Stéphane Garelli’s perspective blends rigorous experience, humor, and actionable wisdom—a refreshing take for executive coaches and leaders seeking to not only lead, but to bring others along and ensure ongoing personal growth. His focus on communication, ethics, vision, and the courage to pursue new challenges offers a roadmap for anyone aiming to take their own leadership—and those they coach—to the next level.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Mr. Stefan Garelli, welcome. In two minutes, please introduce yourself.

[Stefan Garelli]

Who am I? Good question. Yes, I'm a professor of competitiveness at imd, the business school in Lausanne, at the University of Lausanne. I started by being the managing director of the World Economic Forum, the annual meeting in Davos. I've been working in many companies, Hewlett Packard, etc. I have been a chairman of a bank, the Sandoz Financial Holdings. I'm today chair of a newspaper, Le Temps. I'm a member of the International Olympic Commission. I even have been elected one day at the constitutional assembly of my country. So a very diverse experience, extensive experience.

[Interviewer]

So tell us, you also created the center, EMD's World Competitive Center.

[Stefan Garelli]

Yes, we founded that about 25 years ago. Because when I was doing Davos, I realized that everybody was speaking about competitiveness of enterprises, but. But nobody was speaking really about competitiveness of nations when they were speaking about it. Everybody had a different definition. So we felt maybe we should compare how countries are competing in this way.

[Interviewer]

So tell us, how do you define good leadership? You teach at emd, at executive courses, you're constantly teaching ocr, Universite de Lausanne. What would you tell these students? What is good leadership?

[Stefan Garelli]

I have looked at your videos here before, and I think everybody had a good definition about leadership. You know, it's energy, its passion. I have another one which is a good leader creates followers. And this is something important.

I have seen in my life so.

Many of these leaders alone, coming in front of everybody and saying, I'm leading, and everybody saying congratulations, goodbye, tell us if it works. They are alone.

And I think the real function of.

A leader is to take people with you and to make sure that they share your passion, that they share your vision.

And that's not as easy as it seems, because a lot of those leaders in companies, sometimes in government, we see it today, are completely alone. There is nobody behind them. And I think this is one of the biggest challenges of leadership today, making.

Sure that people are coming with you.

[Interviewer]

And also you've been chairman of boards, as you mentioned, and also you've been managing director of the World Economic Forum. Tell us, what for you is the difference between being a chairman and a CEO or a managing director?

[Stefan Garelli]

When you are a chairman, you are a little bit like the spare wheel in your car. People take care about you only when things go wrong. I'm sure you don't know where is your spare wheel until you have a problem. And I think this is exactly what's happening.

I think when everything goes fine, the.

Life of A chairman is really very nice.

And when things go a little bit.

Less fine, everybody turn around to you and ask you for solutions.

And I think that's where you have.

To be very careful, because the CEO.

Of a company is taking action, is responsible for the management.

The chairman is responsible for controlling that everything is done correctly, with a sense of ethics and according to the law. This is very important.

It's becoming even more important today, where.

Transparency is the name of the game and the rules of the games are changing.

So the chairman is getting more and.

More important in today's role.

[Interviewer]

Quite a big change.

[Stefan Garelli]

Yes, indeed.

[Interviewer]

So in your career, what was the biggest influencer or a person that influenced you?

[Stefan Garelli]

Well, when I was managing director of the World Economic Forum, of course, you meet a lot of those great people around the world, and many have powers. Very little have influence on you. I worked a lot with a French Prime Minister called Raymond Bart. He was a fabulous person. I learned a lot from him.

[Interviewer]

What kind of things did you learn from him?

[Stefan Garelli]

I learned the same thing as I learned from another one called Ted Heath, you know, the British Prime Minister. He was the best speaker I've ever heard. And one day I told him, you know, what is the secret? Tell me. Tell me the secret. He told me, Stephane, this is very simple. Don't make a speech, speak to people. And if you speak to people, you can make as many mistakes as you want. If they feel you communicate to them, if they feel you are not reading something which was written by somebody else, you can make every mistake in the world. You have this kind of special relationship, and everything will go fine. This probably was the best advice I ever got.

[Interviewer]

What was your biggest challenge, your biggest failure, and how did you overcome it?

[Stefan Garelli]

I think one of the things I always tell my students, because I experience it, I think that in life, you should be committed, you should be loyal, ethical, to the job you have. But never forget your personal agenda. It's fair enough to have a personal agenda. It's fair enough to know where you want to go in life, do it honestly. But sometimes we have jobs which are so interesting, so passionate that. That you see only the job. And actually, you should always think, what is my next step? Where do I go from here? And sometimes I say, you feel yourself. It's a bit like you're at the top of a pyramid. You're at the top of a pyramid. You cannot go upwards, you cannot go on the side. The only way is to go down again, to climb up another pyramid even higher. This takes a lot of Courage and I think you have to have the courage sometimes to climb down the pyramid to go to another one. I feel that the biggest mistake your question was probably that sometimes I stayed in job which I like too much and I didn't think enough about my personal agenda. And what was the next step? Always think about the next step. A leader is somebody who has a sense of direction. A leader is somebody where you feel he knows where he's going. So my first advice is if you.

Don'T know where you are going, don't tell it. If you are a leader, keep it for yourself.

Pretend, decide until you find out.

[Interviewer]

Now you've written a book. Are you a tiger, a cat or a dinosaur?

[Stefan Garelli]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Right. So what are the key messages in your book?

[Stefan Garelli]

I was afraid you would ask me.

If I was a tiger or cat or a dinosaur myself.

[Interviewer]

That would come next.

[Stefan Garelli]

It's 100 questions about how competitive influence our life. I've written a lot of things which are academic and profoundly boring on competitiveness and I felt I should show people it has an impact on our life, it has an impact on the way we behave, on the way companies treat us.

And this is what I have done.

So 100 questions, two pages, very simple to read, touching a lot of issues, leadership, since we have discussed it, but also issues about what are the products, what can you expect from a product?

Issues about failures, not failures, it's a bit about everything.

So it's a kind of things to.

Show, you know, economics is part of our daily life.

[Interviewer]

So what habit do you have that has really helped you be the success that you are?

[Stefan Garelli]

There are a few of them.

The first one is to not to read anything about economics after 9 o' clock at night.

I think it's important.

I felt that if I was reading.

About economics, first I would not sleep, you know, I would start thinking and thinking.

And second, I deeply believe that if you want to be good at what you are doing, you should have the curiosity to look at other things.

So you should read about whatever please.

You, but not your trade, not what you are doing yourself during all the day. It's very good because it's lateral thinking will make you discover new ideas, new thing and sometimes you say, well, it works there, maybe it can work here. So a lot of the ideas which.

Sometimes I felt were worthwhile actually I.

Got them not from economics but from elsewhere.

[Interviewer]

So it's good brainstorming and exploration.

[Stefan Garelli]

It's brainstorming, it's being exposed to something different, what I call the ha ha effect. Aha, I didn't think about that. I am exposed to a totally different idea in anthropology and suddenly it works also in business. And this is very important.

[Interviewer]

Thank you very much, Mr. Stefan Garelli for sharing your knowledge and your experience.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you for listening to the Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast. You can subscribe to all Future [e-mail] join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO mastermind, use the contact [e-mail].