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Excellent Executive Coaching: Growing Your Business and Enhancing Your Craft.
EEC 400: Unseen, Unhealed - How Trauma Sabotages Leadership, with Mandy Morris
00:21:40
Mandy Morris is known for helping leaders, entrepreneurs, and individuals break the hidden emotional patterns that sabotage their success , quickly and effectively. She’s an Executive Psychology Coach, Licensed Professional Counselor (LPC),...
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- [00:05]
A
Why are we conditioned by unresolved issues? How is it affecting us? And how does one break the hidden emotional patterns that sabotage our success? Now let's ask Mandy Morris, a licensed professional counselor and certified clinician and executive psychology coach. Welcome to the excellent executive coaching podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katrina Mirrous. And today we have Mandy Morris. Mandy, welcome.
- [00:43]
B
Hi. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here talking with you.
- [00:47]
A
Yes. And you have an interesting subject, so I'm going to start right away. So here you say you help people that have unresolved trauma and how they show up in leadership even when someone appears high functioning. So tell us a little bit more about that, what you mean by trauma or you say emotional residue. What kind of traumas do they have and how does it play out in the leadership world?
- [01:15]
B
For sure. So trauma is a buzzword that gets really misunderstood. And we think of it as being these things, things that we hear about in the news or these huge catastrophic events when the word trauma just means wound. And wounds, psychological, emotional or otherwise usually happen early on in life, but they kind of tell on themselves in our behaviors in our adult life. And so what I mean by that is that when people get stuck in the same patterns over and over and they can't get themselves out of it, meaning, let's say you have an intense anger response that, you know, when people say or do certain things, it always, you know, sparks that reactivity or you're stuck in the same bad relationships or the same unfulfilling jobs, or you're stuck in some sort of pattern that despite being really intellectual and high achieving, you just can't seem to break out of that is telling sign that there's some sort of unresolved trauma or wound. And what happens is it's not necessarily something that you've experienced. It's not always what happens to you. It's what happens inside of you. And that takes the form of a belief that you have about yourself that isn't true. So this could be a feeling of not being enough or being too much, a feeling of being a failure, but it's not a conscious thing. We don't go around necessarily thinking these things. An example that I can give you is, I'll give this one example, but it represents a lot of different types of clients that I've worked with. Is business owner comes to me who's been stuck in the same revenue for the last five, six, seven years and just can't see, seem to move his or her business farther along. Well, as we do a little more digging. Turns out that this person is engaging in a lot of self sabotaging behaviors like not being assertive, not setting the correct boundaries, not communicating in effective ways, things like that. And when we dig under all the layers, this person holds this belief that they're a failure because of something that happened way back in childhood, that the mind keeps trying to reinforce that that belief is true, not a conscious thing. So when I say unresolved trauma in high achievers, it shows up in behaviors that don't move you forward, but you can't seem to break.
- [03:53]
A
Yes. So give us some examples of high achievers where this unresolved emotional. How does it play out in the workplace?
- [04:02]
B
Sure. So this could play out in the workplace, like perfectionism. A lot of high achievers, and I hear this all the time, is, oh, I'm a perfectionist. But. And what happens is they spend so much time trying to get everything just right that it creates all of this anxiety. They may appear to be performing great at work and meeting all the mark, but internally they're suffering with this, you know, lower, even high levels of anxiety, not sleeping at night, and then ultimately that leading to burnout. Because behind, in this example, behind perfectionism usually is a feeling of, if I don't do this exactly right, or if things aren't perfect, I'm not enough, or I'm a failure, whatever that negative belief is about themself, that despite intellectually knowing it's not true, it feels true. It can also show up in how we relate to people in the workplace. And so I see this especially with a lot of women in leadership where they now feel like they have something to prove because they finally have leveled up into this leadership position. And they tend to maybe act in more aggressive ways or more loud ways, if you will. That comes from not a place of actually feeling confident, but trying to prove their own worth because they don't feel like they're of worth.
- [05:40]
A
Wow. Thank you for those examples. It's great. I think a lot of people can relate to it.
- [05:46]
B
Yeah.
- [05:46]
A
So how do you help people get over this?
- [05:49]
B
Well, the first step is to do an honest inventory of where am I stuck? I think we can all relate to places we feel stuck, whether that is in our confidence or in our relationships or in our communication or just not feeling satisfied. You know, I think we always think if I get to the next level, then I'll feel happy, then I'll finally, you know, feel content with my life and we're chasing this thing that we just can't seem to get or to grasp. And taking a step back from that. And really I encourage people to ask the question, what is it that if I don't achieve that thing or if people were to actually think this negative thing about myself that I fear people think, what does it feel like it would mean about me as a person? And it's going to go back to some sort of limiting belief for me. One of the examples that I give is that in like third grade, I was mis prescribed these big red glasses. I had big hair out to here. I needed braces and didn't have them. And I didn't have very many friends. And I was very aware of that. And I was picking up on the fact that I was getting left out a lot at school. And so I asked my one friend at recess how come she hangs out with this other girl more than me. And without missing a beat, she says, because she's prettier than you. And they walk off and I'm like crying on the recess. I don't say a word to anybody about anything. And after that, I can see, looking back, how I took any real or perceived negative social interaction as there being something wrong with me. When we can look back and be like, well, that wasn't a big deal. Those girls were just jerks. And they, you know, that was just how they were acting. But at the time, especially when you're a kid, you internalize these things. Well, what that landed me was people pleasing behavior, lack of boundaries, and some pretty high social anxiety. So how does that translate into how I operate in relationships and how I operate in the workplace? Well, I turn into a people pleaser who doesn't assert herself, who doesn't actually try to ask or get what I want in my career, in my business, or in life until I have to make a conscious decision that I can't continue to operate this way. While that was a really small, seemingly benign thing, it was one moment in time that made me believe something about myself that wasn't true, psychologically speaking. And from a neuroscience standpoint, our brain can't hold two conflicting beliefs. You can't believe you're enough and you're not enough, and your mind is going to find evidence for whatever you believe. And so you'll know that there's a wound that still exists when you continue to get stuck in a certain pattern of thinking or behavior that you can't seem to break out of. And so to get through that is to bring what subconscious, conscious to bring it into awareness and then to start to act as if what you really want to believe about yourself is true. So for me, I had to start acting like I mattered. I had to start having the courage to speak up, having the courage to dream big and to know that it wasn't stupid or silly to have the courage to ask for the raise or to take whatever steps I needed to take on behalf of myself, even if it felt like I was going to rock the boat. We take small steps and changes in our behavior and that helps us begin to believe something that is really true about who we are, not the noise in our head.
- [09:44]
A
Yes. Wow. A big process too. And you're absolutely gorgeous. So maybe that too was a major change.
- [09:54]
B
Sure. Thank you.
- [09:56]
A
So how do you help people? Like, so I see you try to find out what's the script you're telling yourself basically where it comes from and how it's been internalized. And then what's very interesting point you made is you can't have contrary belief systems. Yeah. So you believe are you unworthy? You can't start believing you're worthy at the same time. But at the same time you say you got to do small steps. So how are you contradicting the belief that you're not worthy and not have it boomerang back? Because you can't have two beliefs, contradictory beliefs.
- [10:40]
B
Well, that's going to be part of the growing process, is that you're going to have to catch yourself. So one of the steps that I take people through is learning what is your operating system. Think about your current operating system, meaning your thoughts, feelings and behaviors. Those are all connected to some hard wiring belief about yourself. So think of your brain as like a computer. You got hardware in there. And those are all those neuropathways that have been laid down since you were a kid, up until now. And you know, for me I can look back and see, okay, I know that I'm operating out of the belief I don't matter or I'm not enough. When I start thinking and feeling and acting in what ways? And you start to list out those thoughts and those behaviors and then you think through, okay, well, when I am operating out of I do matter and I'm enough, how am I different? How do I operate in the world differently? What are the things that I do that is more in alignment with that? And you begin to catch those automatic thoughts that don't serve you well and you replace them with things that aren't true. And this isn't like fluffy know, positive affirmations that no one feels like they can really believe about themselves. It's getting yourself into reality because you're running an old software system, so to speak, and you want to optimize your new brain. You want to optimize who you are as a person. And we got to clear out the virus and start replacing it with healthier ways of thinking and better ways of behaving in the world. And I encourage people, when you're able to identify what are the negative beliefs about myself that feel true. Common ones for most people are that I'm not good enough, I'm a failure, I'm responsible for everything, or I'm not safe. Those are some pretty universal common ones. And if it's like, oh yeah, you know, I do feel that way a lot of times, then you get to decide what you want to believe. So these are known as limiting beliefs. Are you used to hearing those terms, limiting beliefs? I like to refer to them as limiting decisions. Because once you bring what subconscious, conscious, you're making a decision about yourself. And I no longer want to decide that I'm not good enough and I don't matter. So how do I act like that? How do I start to think like that? It's kind of like with other high achievers, like professional athletes. Let's say I've worked with athletes who maybe want to run a five minute mile and let's say they run a seven minute mile. Well, part of their training is to tell themselves I'm a runner who runs a five minute mile, even though they don't. Because our brain doesn't know what's imagined and what's real. You want to form those neuropathways. So it's not just telling yourself something that isn't true. It's training your brain for what's possible.
- [13:49]
A
I like that. Training your brain for what's possible.
- [13:52]
B
Yeah.
- [13:53]
A
Yep.
- [13:53]
B
Michael Phelps. I'm not sure if it was the last one or the one before, but one of the more recent gold medals that he won for swimming, as soon as he hit the water, his goggles broke and people were like, how did you win this? And he had done so many visualizations and he told himself what he was going to do and how he was going to do it so much that he didn't need to be able to see to win because his brain knew it was possible. And that's how we have to start to train our own mind in the areas where we feel stuck or less than or not good enough or want to be able to exceed even further from where we're at what the brain and body can do is way more than we even realize. And we have to start to train ourselves in such a way.
- [14:41]
A
But you say positive affirmation is not effective.
- [14:47]
B
It gets a bad rap. So it doesn't feel true. And that's the tricky part about it. And so the reframe around that is telling yourself what is possible. But the key to it is you're telling yourself what's possible as if it's already happened. So I'm not going to be a five minute mile runner. I am a five minute mile runner. I'm not going to be the CEO. I am the CEO in training. I am enough. I am a good public speaker. I am whatever those things are where you struggle that you know you want to be, because that's the power of the mind, is that it will start to believe the things that you tell it. And we see this in the reverse all the time. If you, you criticize yourself enough and we're all our own worst critic, you tell yourself certain negative things about yourself long enough, you will believe it. So why not use that in reverse?
- [15:45]
A
Yeah.
- [15:46]
B
Right.
- [15:46]
A
Yeah. Great. So what's your process to help people? Now, you mentioned that you have an app. Did I understand that correctly?
- [15:57]
B
I do.
- [15:58]
A
It's so free.
- [16:01]
B
Yep.
- [16:02]
A
Tell us about that.
- [16:03]
B
Yeah. So one of the problems that we face is that we all are walking or we're all walking around with a dysregulated nervous system. Because what used to be the saber tooth tiger is now all the unread emails in our inbox, all the things that we have to do that we haven't gotten done. And so our fight or flight and our stress response is constantly going off. And stress is one of our number one killers. And this app, so free, is a stress detection app that can help reset your nervous system in under two minutes using something called bilateral stimulation. What bilateral stimulation is, it's something that's been around in neuroscience for decades and it's been in the therapy world for decades as well. It just means left and right side of the body. EMDR is a type of trauma therapy that I use with my clients in my therapy practice. And we use this technique. We use it through tapping like this or through holding these paddles that pulse back and forth. Walking is bilateral. Parents who sway their babies back and forth, that's bilateral. It's your mind's, your nervous system's natural self soothing mechanism. It makes the parasympathetic nervous system come online. With the app, you now have that at your fingertips. So you can put your earbuds in and it'll send audio tones that go to the left and right side of your ear. There's vibrations that go from the side of your body that your watch is on to the side of your body that you're holding your phone, or eye tracking left to right, which is the original form of bilateral stimulation. But it's your body's natural self soothing mechanism that you can now have in your pocket.
- [17:49]
A
Wow. So in your process, you identify what is the limiting belief. And you use this app, the system, to help have a new belief system.
- [18:03]
B
So the app helps with regulating your nervous system.
- [18:06]
A
Okay.
- [18:07]
B
And when, when we're stressed, we don't have access, good access to the front part of our brain. This is where we do all of our rational thinking and decision making. It is hard to think clear when we're stressed out. We are not our best, we're not our best leaders, we're not our best at communicating. We're not our best in relationships to people. The more we learn how to regulate ourself, the easier it is to think clearly. When we can do that and combine it with cognitive exercises or cognitive techniques around replacing unhealthy thoughts with more helpful thinking, replacing old beliefs with new beliefs, and how we show up and how we think and how we act, it becomes much easier to do. It's like if I tell an anxious person to just calm down, they're not going to calm down. Everyone gets so frustrated at that because that part of the brain's offline. We have to regulate the nervous system first. With, especially in the professional world, we tend to over intellectualize everything, but not everything is an intellectual process. Sometimes it's a nervous system issue. And the more that that gets under control, the more you're able to, you know, use your intelligence to help you.
- [19:27]
A
Okay, so you first get them in a calmer situation by using the app. Right. And then you start reprogramming them. Yep.
- [19:37]
B
Reprogramming the mind, rewiring the brain.
- [19:39]
A
So because you, when they're stressed, the neurocortex doesn't work.
- [19:44]
B
Right.
- [19:45]
A
So you have to get it to work again so that you can reformat what they're saying to themselves.
- [19:52]
B
Yep, exactly. Get the new upgraded program.
- [19:55]
A
Yeah, I like that idea. Yeah, it's great. So you also have your psychology, executive psychology, and have you studied psychology?
- [20:08]
B
So my master's is in clinical counseling. I've been a therapist for about the last 15 years. EMDR clinician. And in the last six years or so I've entered into the executive psychology coaching. So I deal with executives, leaders, entrepreneurs on the psychology behind their business and behind how they're operating as a leader. Help them with blind spots, with emotional intelligence, with interpersonal relationships and, and get them unstuck from wherever they feel stuck. And almost all of that is going to go back to some sort of psychological block.
- [20:44]
A
Right. And where can people get ahold of you to get this help?
- [20:49]
B
Sure, you can go to my website, Mandy morris.com I'm also that on my website is where all my social media is as well. So you can find me on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. But that's the best place to get ahold of me.
- [21:04]
A
I want to thank you very much. It was most interesting. Well, thank you, thank you.
- [21:10]
C
Thank you for listening to the Excellent Executive Coaching podcast. You can subscribe to all Future podcasts@excellentexecutivecoaching.com join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO Mastermind, use the contact form at Excellent ExecutiveCoaching.com.