EEC 406: Leadership Development Lessons From Julius Caesar, with Paul Vanderbroeck

Summary

Podcast Summary: Leadership Development Lessons From Julius Caesar

Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast, Episode 406
Host: Dr. Katrina Burrus, PhD, MCC
Guest: Dr. Paul Vanderbroeck
Release Date: November 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Dr. Katrina Burrus interviews Dr. Paul Vanderbroeck, a historian and executive coach, about his new book and research on Julius Caesar as a model for leadership development. The discussion explores how Caesar’s life offers practical lessons—and cautionary tales—for today’s leaders and executive coaches, balancing a wealth of achievement with fatal shortcomings in emotional intelligence and feedback mechanisms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Julius Caesar? – Models for Leadership Analysis

[00:59]

• Paul chose Julius Caesar as a case study for his unique breadth of accomplishments—military, governance, innovation, and writing.
• Utilized three main leadership assessment models:
  • 12 Leadership Behaviors (used in 360-degree reviews)
  • A personality/motivation instrument
  • Career development trajectory models
• Quote:

  “Caesar would always end up in the top five, probably never as number one, but often as number two or three. But there’s no other leader that would always show up in the top five.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 02:15)

Caesar’s Leadership Trajectory – Lessons in Career Development

[03:16]

• Career advancement requires both performance and the building of a reputation or brand.
• Constructing a support network and managing competition is crucial.
• A leader must accept that the ‘race’ is rarely fair—managing both fair and unfair competition is essential.

Building the Caesar Brand – Values and Differentiation

[04:20]

• Caesar differentiated himself through:
  • Clemency: Forgiving adversaries, even conquered people
  • Populism: Advocating for everyday Roman citizens
• He ensured actions matched his messaging and communicated his values extensively to build a lasting brand.
• Quote:

  “He made sure that he stood out from others by being different... and he showed that in the way he dealt with adversaries, also with people he conquered.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 04:26)

Navigating Competition – The Cato Rivalry & Emotional Intelligence

[05:08]–[07:51]

• Caesar’s main competitor, Cato, excelled in understanding the personal interests and emotional climate within the Senate.
• Caesar succeeded, not by outmaneuvering Cato in emotional intelligence, but by shifting power from the Senate to the people, mobilizing popular support instead.
• Caesar’s weakness: insufficient emotional intelligence with groups—struggled to read, sway, or respond to group sentiment within the elite.
• Quote:

  “Caesar used generally very good rational arguments which were difficult to go against, but there were other underlying interests which he didn’t touch. And Cato was better at that than Caesar.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 06:59)

Blind Spots and Downfall – The Price of Feedback Failure

[08:31]–[10:19]

• Caesar’s ultimate downfall was failure to pick up on elite resentment and lack of sufficient feedback mechanisms.
• Lacked 'emotional sensors' especially at the highest levels where feedback is scarce.
• Quote:

  “He did not capture the frustration, the sentiment, the disappointment with a large group within the elite... and Caesar didn’t capture that also because he did not get the feedback he needed to capture that... and was not able to turn it into his favor.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 09:19)

Essential Takeaways for Modern Leaders

[10:28], [12:45]–[14:40]

• Self-awareness is non-negotiable—know your blind spots.
• Establish channels to receive feedback from all levels, especially from those who might disagree with you.
• Invite and be receptive to feedback, reducing blind spots to a minimum.
• Breadth of achievement and experience leads to a stronger leadership brand.
• Talent management—diversity, openness, and bench strength—was key to Caesar's power.
• Leverage your strengths but also learn to reshape circumstances to play to them.
• Influence of followers: Leaders are shaped by the climate and expectations of followers, often unconsciously.
• Quote:

  “...with Caesar I have realized that [emotional intelligence] goes beyond interactions with individuals. But there’s also a collective emotional intelligence or emotional intelligence towards groups which are very important.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 15:16)

The Cleopatra Factor – Image versus Reality

[11:10]–[12:16]

• Caesar’s public relationship with Cleopatra hurt his standing among Romans, mostly due to cultural expectations regarding private versus public conduct.
• Though it dented his reputation, career impact is unclear as his career was cut short soon after.
• Quote:

  “With Caesar, bringing her to Rome and hosting her in one of his houses did not go down very well. So it certainly affected his reputation, but ultimately it did not affect his career in the long term.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 11:56)

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Memorable Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Breadth of Leadership:

  “It’s helpful to be active on a number of things. Not only focus on one thing, but to have a breadth of achievement and experience.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 12:45)

• On Modern CEO Lessons:

  “Politicians have their opinion polls. CEOs may have employee surveys and that’s important. Caesar didn’t have that... But you can, I think, go further than that to see what’s really going on so that you can capture discontent, mainly or misunderstandings, early on and deal with them.”
  (Vanderbroeck, 15:56)

• Host’s Recap:

  “So what are the takeaways for leaders today? That they should lobby, that they should get constant feedback from their stakeholders. What else?”
  (Burrus, 10:19)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:59] – Why Julius Caesar? Leadership models and uniqueness
• [03:16] – Career development lessons and managing competition
• [04:20] – Caesar’s brand: Values, populism, and differentiation
• [05:08] – Navigating rivalry with Cato and limits of emotional intelligence
• [08:31] – Caesar’s personality, legacy, and fatal flaws
• [10:19] – Modern leadership takeaways and feedback culture
• [11:10] – The impact of Cleopatra on Caesar’s reputation
• [12:45] – Key leadership takeaways from Caesar’s story
• [14:40] – Impacts on coaching practice; collective emotional intelligence
• [15:56] – Applicability for contemporary CEOs and leadership strategies

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Final Thoughts

Paul Vanderbroeck expertly bridges ancient history with contemporary executive leadership, offering nuanced insights on performance, reputation-building, strategic use of strengths, and the fatal risks of ignoring group sentiment. Both coaches and leaders will find actionable ideas—from boosting feedback channels to understanding collective emotional intelligence—grounded in the extraordinary and ultimately tragic career of Julius Caesar.

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Book Reference:
Lead Like Julius Caesar (find via Springer.com, code: SPROUT for a current discount)

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For More:
Visit the podcast site or Dr. Paul Vanderbroeck’s publisher for resources, or check show notes for discount codes and further reading.

Transcript

[A]

Do you want to lead like Julius Caesar, one of the greatest leaders of our history, and yet he was stabbed multiple times at the end of his life. So what can we learn to be such a fabulous leader and at the same time avoid being stabbed? So let's listen to the specialist, Paul Vanderbrook, who is both a historian and an executive coach. Welcome to the excellent executive coaching podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katrina Birous, and today we're going to be interviewing Dr. Paul Vanderbrook. Welcome, Paul.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Katrina from Geneva, right?

[B]

Indeed. I'm so happy to be here with you, even if it is across the ocean. It's great to reconnect.

[A]

Yes, it is. And you've written an incredible book about Julius Caesar. So tell me, what are the leadership models that you have chosen for your research? And why Julius Caesar?

[B]

Yeah. So to start with the first question, so I as I'm an executive coach like yourself, I used models which I found very effective in my coaching, which I like to use and apply those to Julius Caesar. So there's one model about leadership behaviors, 12 leadership behaviors, which you can measure leadership, which is usually used in a 360 degree format. Then I also looked at Caesar's personality by using an instrument that measures motivation. And thirdly, because I looked at Caesar throughout his life and particularly his career, I used also a model that gives you the opportunity to see how a person could career develops and how it progresses over time. And then why Julius Caesar? Well, as I'm originally historian and I've come across Caesar several times in my studies and my research, I think, yeah, he's quite special. There are of course, many successful leaders in history, but Caesar is particularly different or special because he has an accumulation of achievements. What I mean to say with that is that you have many leaders who are very good at one or two things and they stand out. But Caesar was good at many more things. And if you would, for example, rank leaders in history on performance, on military achievement, or as a governor of a country, or as an innovator, a change agent, or even as a writer, Caesar would always end up in the top five, probably never as number one, but often as number two or three. But there's no other leader that would always show up in the top five. And I think that makes Caesar particularly special and therefore also gives many opportunities to learn from him.

[A]

So of course he had a disastrous ending, but we'll come to that. Tell us about how does Caesar's career and how it developed that what can leaders today take away from it?

[B]

Yeah, so I think that there are several things. First of all, I would say that a career is built up by several things. It's first of all or performance. You need to deliver performance in order to be able to get to the next step to be promoted. But that in itself is not enough. You also need to build up a support network, a brand or reputation visibility that the powers that be your decision maker, also see what you're able to do and see your potential, so they decide to give you that next opportunity. And then another thing which is important, which also see with Caesar, is that a career is a race. So that means there is competition. Sometimes that competition is fair, sometimes that competition is not so fair. And you have to learn to deal with that in order to position yourself for the next position.

[A]

Okay, so tell us a little more about his branding and what he did. Well about his branding and also how did he deal with the competition.

[B]

So with regard to branding, his leadership was in a. Of a country, the Roman Republic. So it was his public leadership. And he made sure that he stood out from others by being different. One of the things is, for example, his values. And two of those important, the fact that he was forgiving. Clemency was important to him. And he showed that in the way he dealt with adversaries, also with people he conquered. And also another of his value is that he was taking care of the interests of the people of the Romans, the average Roman, and he was known for that.

[A]

So he developed, how to say, goodwill by having clemency and also taking care of the people that he's governing.

[B]

So he developed goodwill and delivering on that. It was not just talking about it, but actually delivering on that. And that was also something special, making sure that it was known. He spent a lot of time on making sure it was communicated in different people, different ways. And people were aware of what they're doing. And that's also important to construct a brand. With regard to competition, we had one particular important competitor. There were several, but one stands out, a senator named Cato, who had his own brand of leadership. This was about being very strict in morals and sticking to the rules and so forth. And yeah, they clashed because they also had different visions of how the state should be run. And Caesar lost out several times. Cato was much better to convince and to get the vote on his hand in the Senate of Rome, which is a powerful body in that configuration. And Caesar had difficulty to overcome that. And he never really became better than Cato. But Caesar, and that's one of a particular Strengths of his. He was able to sometimes change the circumstances in a way that it allowed him to apply his strength. So what Caesar did is to shift the power base to the people who could vote on laws and establish an organization which mobilized the people in favor of his proposals and sort of. And in that way, sideline, if you will, the Senate and become ultimately get the upper hand over Cato.

[A]

So what, was he not as good as his competitor? In what area? Persuasion, Convincing people?

[B]

No, it's media. It's emotional intelligence, which was difficult and with Caesar never had been able to develop to a level that it became a strength. And particularly emotional intelligence towards groups. And you have emotional tense towards individuals. And it could have, but it's all most particular towards emotional intelligence towards groups in the sense of, do I am aware how I come across with people, how they react to me, and how can I influence people's emotions and sentiments towards me. And Cato was better as that. He understood better what did real egotistic interests of the senators were and was able to focus on that. Caesar used generally very good rational arguments which were difficult to go against, but there were other underlying interests which he didn't touch. And Cato was better at that than Caesar.

[A]

So how did this pan out over time between his competitor and him?

[B]

Yeah. So ultimately, Caesar, because he was able to shift and to do things in a different way, shift from the power base, from the Senate to the people, he was able to overcome that and get his proposals accepted, his laws and author through that progress through his career.

[A]

So you already touched on it about his personality. But what was something about his personality that helped him be so famous? Because today we remember him and yet creates such hate that people would stab him multiple times.

[B]

Yeah. So it's again, this emotional intelligence in combination with not getting enough feedback, by the way. But it was again the emotional talent that came back to haunt him at the end, where at the end, he. He did a lot. He was very active, passed good laws, which also people agreed to. Yet he did not capture the frustration, the sentiment, the disappointment with a large group within the elite who were either disappointed because they didn't have career opportunities they hoped for or who were afraid that he perhaps would rule forever. Caesar. And the combination of discontents. And Caesar didn't capture that also because he did not get the feedback he needed to capture that. And ultimately, by surprise, he was murdered. And similar things happened before, by the way, where he was caught off guard. But in those cases, with a lot of effort, was able to overcome it for Example, you may have heard of verse in the famous Gallic leader. Now, when Caesar had conquered Gaul and one of his major achievements and everything seemed to be fine and happy, all of a sudden, bam, There was this huge revolt from the Gauls, and Caesar was blindsided by that. But it also, again, was because he had not captured that there. If he had defeated them at first, there was still these remaining sentiments, very emotional, which he hadn't captured. And therefore he didn't see the signs that there was this revolt brewing. Now, he overcome that again with a lot of difficulty. But the last issue with those senators that stabbed him in the back, he didn't see it coming and was not able to turn it into his favor.

[A]

So what are the takeaways for leaders today? That they should lobby, that they should get constant feedback from their stakeholders. What else?

[B]

Yeah. First of all, to be aware of that. That you may have this weakness, that you yourself are not perhaps capturing everything. And secondly, to make sure that you have feelers also more further down in the organization, particularly if you're at the top of how things are going, how things are feeling. And on one hand, that is a structural thing you can set up to make sure that you get those information through people. But an important aspect is also to invite feedback from others to allow people to bring these issues to you and be receptive of those, so that the blind spots you may have reduced to a minimum.

[A]

I see. Now, of course, I have an extra question. How did his relationship with Cleopatra affect his career?

[B]

The Romans were not happy about that relationship for several reasons. On the one hand, he stayed a long time with Cleopatra in Egypt, having a Nile cruise and so forth, while the civil war wasn't open. So people saying, what is he doing over there? Can't he come back and finish the war? And then he also. He brought Cleopatra a few times to Rome. They had a relationship, but Caesar was married. Now, Romans were reasonably okay about extramarital relationships as long as it was not in public. And with Caesar, bringing her to Rome and hosting her in one of his houses did not go down very well. So it certainly affected his reputation, but ultimately it did not affect his career in the long term. But perhaps it also. Because soon after he met Cleopatra, his career was cut short. So any negative effects we are not able to measure. Because his career stopped.

[A]

Yes. And he not only brought Cleopatra to Rome, but he also had a son.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Which his successor conveniently got rid of afterwards.

[A]

Right? Unfortunately, yes. Yes. So what are the main takeaways that you've learned from writing this fabulous book about Caesar, how he led. What would you say are the key takeaways that leaders should think about?

[B]

So it's helpful to be active on a number of things. Not only focus on one thing, but to have a breadth of achievement and experience. I mean, that's also part of his success and also of the success of his leadership brand. Another one is the emphasis on communication and visibility. That was really one of strengths and also contribute to his success and talent management. Cesar had one of the success factor was that he was open to diverse talent and was able therefore to attract talent which others may not have recruited because they didn't like their social background or that kind of thing. And therefore he had a stronger bench strength of talent to support him. And then finally on the positive side is his ability. Now we know that it's important to leverage strengths and to focus on strengths. And as coaches, you and I, Katrina we often emphasize to people, well, you may more get out of using your strengths more than at all cost trying to develop your weaknesses. So that's certainly a factor with Caesar but also was exceptional is that Caesar sometimes was able to change the circumstances of what's happening so that he could use his strength more. And that's a rare talent I've noticed come across very often with even the most successful leaders. And then on the downside learnings is what we talked about. Emotional intelligence, the importance of feedback at all times. And one thing which we haven't managed is that things would also struggle with CSE that yeah, we believe that leaders at the top of an organization are independent actors. But they can sometimes without knowing be very much influenced by the followers which may lead to decisions they had otherwise not taken.

[A]

I see. So wonderful. And how has it transformed your coaching practice because you're an executive coach.

[B]

Yes, indeed. So it's early days because the book will judge out. But of course I've been doing the research a bit longer. Yeah. It has pointed out two things which I like to emphasize further in my coaching. Is this to dig more in this relationship with followers and to what extent have followers and impact on what you do. And yeah, I knew emotional intelligence is very important, but with Caesar I have realized that it's even more important than a thought and that it goes beyond interactions with individuals. But there's also a collective emotional intelligence or emotional intelligence towards groups which are very important and worth to develop and be aware of.

[A]

So what would you say that you even by doing this research on Julius Hilver's career, what have you added like insight. Would you say is that develop your emotional intelligence to social groups even more or did I miss.

[B]

Yes to wider parts of the organization. If you think of modern CEOs or top leaders is to be to be more aware of what is happening now. Politicians have their opinion polls. CEOs may have employee surveys and that's important. Cesar didn't have that as that may have helped. But you can, I think, go further than that to see what's really going on so that you can capture discontent mainly or misunderstandings early on and deal with them.

[A]

Very good. I'm fascinated with your book. I'm sure as a historian it's super important and as an executive coach. So tell us where we can purchase your book.

[B]

Well, thank you. So it's on the usual online bookstores, but also you can go to springer.com the publisher, where you can both ebook or paperback, which is then free delivered anywhere in the world. And at the moment there's also a 20% discount with the code which we can perhaps put in the show notes and people can benefit from that.

[A]

Wonderful. What's the code? Do you have, you know.

[B]

Yes, it's Sprout. So Simon Peter, Robot, Alpha, Utah, Tango, Sprout.

[A]

Okay, we'll put it in the show notes. It's lead like Julia Caesar, right?

[B]

Indeed. Yeah.

[A]

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your research with us about leadership.

[B]

Wonderful. Katrina, it's always a pleasure to talk to you and you're a real thought leader in coaching, so it's been also an honor to be interviewed by you.

[A]

Thank you, Paul. Thank you very much.

[C]

Thank you for listening to the excellent, excellent executive coaching podcast. You can subscribe to all Future [e-mail] join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO mastermind, use the contact form@Excellent Executive Coaching.com.