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Excellent Executive Coaching: Growing Your Business and Enhancing Your Craft.
EEC 414: Leading Swiss Private Banks, Featuring Charles de Boissezon
00:24:50
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- [00:05]
A
Hello, I'm Dr. Katrina Viges and this podcast is part of a series on excellent international leadership. So I hope you will enjoy it. We're reissuing it and it explains how these powerful leaders, what they credit their success to enjoy. And happy holidays. I'm delighted today to talk to Charles de Boisanon, did I say it correctly?
- [00:38]
B
De Boissazon. Pretty close, Pretty close. I've had problems with that all over the place.
- [00:44]
A
I can imagine. So tell us a little bit about your bio.
- [00:48]
B
For the past three and a half years I've been CEO here at Hinduja Bank, Switzerland. But the biggest part of My career was 32 years with HSBC as an international manager and literally worked almost on every continent. So that's why I'm delighted to be able to talk a little bit today about management and leadership amongst different kinds of people. At the end of the day, we're all almost the same. I also spent five years as CEO of Bang Piguet here in Switzerland. So I know what it's like to run a real Swiss private bank, which is very different.
- [01:23]
A
What an extensive experience of Swiss private banks. So could you tell us a little bit about the difference in culture between these different banks? It's all Swiss private bank mostly, isn't it?
- [01:36]
B
Private banking is almost a commodity business these days. But it's all, I suppose, a way of approaching and how your culture fits best with the culture of your clients and what the clients are looking for. Again, it's all a people business at the end of the day. And that's why we're here talking about management and leadership and how to deal with people. And that is the understanding. Cultures are different. I think the biggest difference amongst cultures is how quickly people respond to what needs to be done. I suppose it's an urgency and one of the factors of Switzerland is that it works efficiently, productively and quickly. Which is so different, say to a so called private bank or any kind of bank in Italy where things are not as urgent. And that's a difference. Latin America, of course, things are done a little bit slower. Interestingly, if you compare Switzerland to say a place like Hong Kong, Hong Kong is even quicker. So I think the cultures, I mean, we can talk about cultures in so many different ways, but I look at it from a management point of view and how you get things done and how people react. And I think to me the biggest difference in cultures is gauging how quickly people are going, going to react and how quickly they get a job done. How often do you have to follow up. And I think that it's a real time difference that a client or people are going to feel.
- [03:07]
A
Incredible. That's very interesting. So in fact. So you determine if you go to a new bank to see their reactivity. And it's specific to cultures. Different cultures have different time sense of urgency.
- [03:20]
B
A sense of urgency, exactly. And how to react to an objective task. Something needs to be done. Different cultures will analyze it differently. Different cultures will accept a suggestion or a request to do something in a different way. Another important difference in culture is how people react when they either disagree or have a comment about what they are doing. And that you have to feel very quickly. Because at the end of the day, everything we do is a joint effort. And someone who's doing something can react in a way that you're the boss. You want me to do it that way, I'm going to do it that way. And again, looking to Asia, that is very much a reaction. Even though they'll do it super efficiently right away, no questions asked, extremely efficient. Very often you don't get as a manager the feedback that you want that it could be done to slightly differently, which you're going to get in a Western culture, it won't be done as quickly, but at least you'll get a feedback that maybe it can be done a different way.
- [04:33]
A
So it's more like a consensus building in Western Europe, would you say?
- [04:37]
B
Definitely.
- [04:38]
A
But yet they say the Asians are consensus building, especially the Japanese is considered. But nevertheless they execute what the boss says. So it's much more hierarchical.
- [04:52]
B
Definitely. Tier arc, much more hierarchical, which in many ways is very efficient. And things get done very, very quickly. And sometimes there are many ways to skin a cat, but you try do it the most efficient way. And if that works, let's go with that way. Even though a different way may have some other benefits, it's not always the best way.
- [05:09]
A
So what kind of skill do you need to determine quickly the different approaches to these cultures, to these ways of doing business?
- [05:16]
B
It's the same skill, I think, that you need to be a good manager and a good leader. And that is understand at the end of the day, it's all about the people. You depend on them. You cannot do everything yourself. Leadership, again, it's about motivating people. And I think the most important thing you need to find out is how do you motivate those people to do the best job. And again, it's a feeling of. It's listening to the people. We all say listen, but what is the real listening what do they need to hear from you to do the job right? What encouragement do they need? What makes them go? What makes them tick? As a good manager, you have to have an ear or a feeling for that.
- [05:55]
A
Can you give us a few examples? In the different cultures?
- [05:59]
B
Yes. Different people have different factors that make them happy and want to do a good job. In some areas, it is really very much a question about money. Okay. People, really. And these are the types of people who go into investment banks and who like to be able to be measured precisely on how well they execute a job and how much money they make for the company. If that's a trigger, you've got to guide accordingly. Other people are looking much more for autonomy and how much they can contribute to a task or getting a job done or accomplishing a strategy, and they get the satisfaction from doing that. And again, that is much more, I suppose, a European function. Whereas in Asia, I think they are money driven. I'm not saying they're not money driven in a Western culture, but I think we're generalizing here. And of course, in Latin America, it's people. I think respect for the individual is maybe very, very important. It's strange to say this, it's probably not as much appreciated, but a lot of Latin Americans are quite proud people and are quite sensitive to how you treat them. And I think they need to be treated with a bit more respect. Whereas people in a Western culture or even an Asian culture appreciate that they are in a business environment. And at the end of the day, it's all about getting a job done. And it's not so much about recognizing me as a person. I think if we can compare cultures a little bit in a very general way.
- [07:33]
A
Okay, very interesting though. So tell us a little bit. What has made your success. You've been CEO of several banks and you've also been retired, and then someone came back to ask you to be CEO of another bank. So tell us a little bit about this journey you've had.
- [07:54]
B
Well, I must admit, after a long career, I did get tired and thought retirement would be a wonderful thing to do. And my wife was absolutely delighted. And I moved to New York from where my wife is from. And I have to admit that New York is probably the best place in the world to retire because there is so much to do, there's too much to do, and you don't have enough time, funnily enough, even though you're in retirement. And I was retired for three years and absolutely loved it. But what I missed was the Daily interaction with people and being involved and having something that gave me a feeling of being involved with other people. I think we as human beings, we're all born and we normally need to have interactions with other people. And I think that's what I missed very much.
- [08:43]
A
So you had plenty of activity, but the interaction, the engagement, the contribution you did within a team.
- [08:50]
B
Yes. And I think it's easy to say, but it actually is true. Being able to do something that makes other people happy or that you can share in achieving something is a wonderful feeling. And I think we all need that. We all need to feel that we can achieve something and that we can contribute to other people, work together to do something. It's like even we learned that at a young age on a sports team. I mean, the joy of winning a game, whatever it is, I mean, I think those are some of the best memories we have as children. Well, that goes on. We're still big children even when we're adults. And I think winning and doing something well together as a team is a feeling that's hard to beat. You know, it's nice to do something individually. Look what I've done. But we all know that if we can do it all as a team and we've all done this together, we all celebrate. And it's a much, much better feeling to say, look what we've done, guys. And as opposed to doing, oh, I've done this myself. And in retirement, you really feel that you. Yes, you're on your own. You wake up, you don't go to. You don't have something to do with a whole bunch of other people. And usually you're too old to practice any great sport as a team. So that's why I think I accepted to come back to another job after retirement. And again, I thoroughly enjoy it. I wish I could work half the hours I work, but that's not possible. You cannot be, as they say, you cannot be half pregnant. But so I'm working, you know, at my age, 65 years old, I'm working 11 hours a day. I wish I didn't have to, but it's either that or nothing. So I'm delighted to still be doing it.
- [10:24]
A
So especially with your kind of responsibility.
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B
You'Ve got to like and enjoy being responsible. If you don't like it, it becomes a nightmare. And again, it all comes down also to confidence. You've got to feel confident that you have the experience and the know how to do something. If you don't have confidence, then you cannot accept responsibility. You Panic, you're not going to be successful. But I think the most important thing to realize to be successful, and I attribute my relative success in my life to my aha moment, the day I realized that I couldn't do everything myself and that you are only as good as your team. And I think that is as soon as you realize that, you change completely as a manager. You turn from analyzing and trying to do your best, from turning around to saying, how do I make my team do its best? That is a crucial turning point to be a good manager or a good leader.
- [11:32]
A
So can you tell us a little bit more about the experience that aha experience that really made you realize that? Because intellectually you can realize that, but what. What was an experience that you really realized it in your gut?
- [11:46]
B
The aha moments, I don't think it happened in any one particular job, but it was an evolution. When you rise in the ranks and you get more and more responsibility on your shoulders, and at the end of the day, you realize that the only thing that counts is results. And when you realize that you cannot produce the results on your own and that you depend on other people for those results, that's when you turn around from trying to develop your own ability and focusing on yourself, which most people do as they go up in their career. What do I need to do to better myself? What knowledge do I need to get better? What technical skills do I need? You reach a certain point where there's no more that you need to do for yourself. You need to learn what you need to give your team and your people, because they're the ones at the end of the day that are doing all the work. And as a manager, again, the term managing, you've got to manage them. And that's, I think, where managers fail is when they don't realize that their job really is to manage their team. Give them all the support, the resources, the motivation, the recognition that they are the ones doing the job. Again, a similar aha moment is when you realize that you must no longer take credit for results. And many managers look upon themselves and go to their boards and say, look what I've done. And people use the word I, etc. Once you realize it and when your team starts to see that you are giving them public credit for what they've done, it motivates them even more. And you will find they do a better job. And at the end of the day, they do a better job, you do a better job, and the results are better. It's all about recognition. But that is much too often forgotten and too many people don't give credit. It's a pat on the back. But if you do it publicly, people say, gee, look, all my efforts are recognized and everyone look up. And then people start respecting each other. And when you have team members respecting each other, they work better.
- [13:55]
A
Would you credit some of your success as a leader? What kind of advice would you give to younger leaders to come to that point? Or what skill sets would you consider are essential as well as a leader?
- [14:11]
B
Two words of advice I always give to bright young, young people who obviously have a successful career in front of them. One of the first pieces of advice I give them is please, please be humble. When you're a bright young thing and you're going up in the ranks, you see that you're bypassing your peers. What you don't realize is that people are jealous of you. They see you rising and they see that anything they do for you is going to help your career and you're not going to get the best out of them. You need to be humble. And even at that younger age, realize that you are just one of the many people. And even though maybe you're brighter than the rest of them, you still need other people to accomplish your results. So be humble. Realize that you don't know everything. Too many people, especially young, bright people who are growing up, think rightfully so. They're smarter than everyone else, they're making the right decisions. But you're never going to always make the right decisions. Be humble and realize that, that you are fallible. And once you realize that someone else's idea might be better than yours, then you're going to be successful. I mean, how often do we have meetings where people dominate and they don't really listen to other people's ideas because it's not theirs? That's a huge, huge mistake. So be humble is probably one of the biggest words of advice I can give to any young future manager. And the second, it sounds trite, it sounds banal, but it is so true. Please, in addition to being humble, please listen, listen to your colleagues. But most important of all, listen to your clients. Having been in private banking for so many years, I see bright young private bankers, assuming they know what the client wants or what is better for the client. And it's a big mistake. Always let the client talk first and listen. Those are my two biggest words of advice from years of experience. And I believe me, people take that on board, they will really see better success.
- [16:25]
A
Great advice. Thank you. So tell me a Little bit about the biggest challenges you had to overcome in your career.
- [16:34]
B
The biggest challenges are always, unfortunately, people, issues, dealing with people. How do you get a person who is just going down the wrong path to turn them around and make them realize their weaknesses? Again, Management is all about getting the best out of your people. And well, coaching is so important. Coaching should be part of any manager's everyday business. You're constantly coaching. Unfortunately, the biggest challenges come from those people who don't think they need to be coached, who are not humble enough to know that they are not always right and are leading themselves down a path of destruction. That to me is the biggest challenge is dealing with people who will not listen to you, who are going down the wrong path. That is a big challenge. Secondly, I think on a more general level, a big challenge with colleagues, with clients and with general strategies and that you need to get past a board or something is to get people to understand the importance of thinking long term. That is so fundamental because you can have short term pitfalls, but think of the long term. You've got to stumble before you can make it up the hill and you're going to stumble, but please realize that it's going to take you a while while to get to that objective. Bringing that back to private banking. Again, that is fundamental. When you are talking to a client, even at the very beginning, what are your concerns, what are your strategies, what's your risk factor? But also convince them and try and get them to think over at least a three year or five year horizon. Don't think too short term because it's long term that counts. To me that is really a big hurdle because people have problems thinking long term.
- [18:33]
A
And long term is three years, huh?
- [18:36]
B
Well, I mean it's all relative. Three years in certain contexts is a decent medium to long term outlook. Usually strategies are three to five years even, whether it be a strategy for a bank or a business or even for an investment portfolio.
- [18:53]
A
So by thinking more long term, the advantage is that you sort of step back and distinguish what is maybe operational and immediate to something that is more forward looking. Can you comment on that?
- [19:09]
B
If you don't stick to a long term strategy or view, you tend to react to short term curves or turns in the road and change your strategy accordingly. So what you're doing is you're just going back and forth, forth and not following a straight line. And at the end of the day your strategy is going left, right and at the end of the day you don't know where you're going. And Things do happen in the short term, but they are not necessarily reasons to change your strategy.
- [19:38]
A
Okay, so long term thinking very important.
- [19:43]
B
Yes.
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A
So what really excites you the most now in your business? You have tremendous experience now. You could retire. So what is it that you really enjoy now in your work?
- [19:55]
B
Well, I think we all enjoy doing something well that gives us pleasure. Again, I go back to the sports example. We always are super happy if we've had a good round of golf or we've just beaten someone at tennis that we've been trying to do for so many years, or our favorite team has won a match or something. It's the same thing in business. If you can do something that has been difficult to achieve, it's a pleasure. We all need pleasure in life. You know, what gives us pleasure? I think success is obviously one of the most basic forms of happiness and pleasure. And what we're looking for, we're all looking for that. What gives me great pleasure today is knowing that I've got something. I guess it also goes back to we all like to feel needed in some way. And it's a great feeling. And I feel today that this organization needs me to carry out their objective. And so I have the pleasure of feeling, oh, well, I'm needed. You know, that's. It gives a certain feeling of self worth, which we all like to have and to have something, a strategic goal to move forward to and to be able to measure how well we're doing. I mean, we do that all through our lives, starting at school with our grades, and we do it on the sports pitches. You know, we try and do our best and then we start a job. We. And also in our personal lives, we try and have, when we're young, we try and have as many friends as possible. And we're always sort of, without realizing it, setting ourselves goals which should be realistic because we don't want to disappoint ourselves, obviously. And I think as we get older, we're still children and we still need the same sort of incentives to move us forward. And being with people and succeeding at something is never going to leave us. And I think that's where when you do retire, you feel, yes, you feel on your own, you don't have those targets to push you forward. We all need to be pushed. We always need to be pushed and challenged in everything we do. If we don't, we do fall back a bit. And that's why I say, as you go through your life and no matter what position you are in, in any Organization, you always need to have a boss because you need someone to push you and to expect more from you. If no one expects anything from you, it's hard to put self expectations, which we're not going to get philosophical about that. But it's much easier to accomplish something when someone's looking at you and measuring you and that's what gives you that motivation to go forward. So yes, we are always looking for challenges and things to do. We need to push ourselves.
- [22:27]
A
Okay, let's challenge and give the best of ourselves.
- [22:30]
B
Exactly.
- [22:31]
A
Our interview is coming to an end and I wanted to know if there's something operational that you do every day to organize your day that you could give, like tip time.
- [22:43]
B
Planning is so important and I think one needs to focus on priorities. Otherwise you will never get anything done because you'll end up spending a lot of time on something that is not as important and then the important matters get put aside. Every day I look at my diary and see what needs to be done and prioritize what I expect to achieve that day. I meet on a daily basis with some of my closest colleagues and we go through outstanding items and decide on the priorities for the day or for the week, depending on how often we meet so that we can identify what needs to be done. Because otherwise, if you don't target what needs to be done, it won't get done because something else may crowd it out. What's our priority for the day? What's our priority for the week that we need to get done? And I'm always being criticized, but I always keep lists, lists of things to do and tick them off. And if they're not ticked off, they haven't been done and they don't get forgotten. Even the less important tasks, you know, they need to be put down. Otherwise we are all so busy and we get distracted and you've got to look at that list and if it's not done that day, it's got to be put on the top of the list the next day. Make lists. That's what keeps me going, keeps me on track.
- [24:02]
A
Excellent advice. Thank you so very much.
- [24:05]
B
My pleasure. And I do hope people do take something away from this, and that is interpersonal skills are probably one of the most important factors in anyone's success, I think are too often overlooked.
- [24:19]
A
Thank you very much.
- [24:21]
B
Thank you for listening to the excellent executive Coaching podcast. You can subscribe to all Future podcasts@excellentexecutivecoaching.com join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO Mastermind, use the contact form at Excellent ExecutiveCoaching.com.