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Excellent Executive Coaching: Growing Your Business and Enhancing Your Craft.
EEC 421: How to Overcome Shame and Depression, with Tiffany Jones
00:21:17
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- [00:05]
A
We all want to be healthy mentally and physically, to live fully. But what happens if we are depressed? So let's listen to Tiffany Jones, who was depressed and has grown out of it and now has a roadmap for others to step out of it. So let's listen to her. Welcome to the excellent executive coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katrina Biruz, and today we have Tiffany Jones, a health expert. So let's start. Why are you interested in this subject?
- [00:46]
B
I am interested in mental health. Coming from my own journey. Suffered from depression for almost 20 years. About 10 of those suffered from intrusive thoughts of suicide. And when I began to heal from all of that, I became really passionate about understanding why, what changed in my life that helped the most and how I can share that with others and just bring others towards their healing journey.
- [01:15]
A
That's a wonderful mission. So what helped you heal? First of all, is there any reason why some people are more affected by depression than others?
- [01:26]
B
I think there's so many variables when it comes to mental health. We have a lot of environmental factors. You have a lot of people that have what seem to be smaller traumas, and a lot of times those are overlooked. And people don't get help because they feel like their problems aren't big enough. And that tends to kind of snowball into this shame cycle where people stay isolated instead of reaching out for help. I believe that the things that impacted me the most were to look at my health holistically. And so when I stopped trying to find one fix at a time and focus on just things that were good for my brain or just things that were good for my body, or just trying to plug more into community. When I started incorporating little aspects of all of those, I started to see real change.
- [02:20]
A
So what exactly did you do when you say you see things holistically? Health. So from looking at one thing to holistically, tell us more specifically, what examples can you give our listeners?
- [02:35]
B
Sure. So there's a time in my life where I sought out therapy for my mental health. And meanwhile, I was very disconnected from my community. I did not tell anybody that I was seeking help and felt a lot of shame about it. I didn't really want anyone to know I wasn't really taking good care of my body physically. I wanted to lose weight, and so I exercised extremely and had terrible nutrition. And so I started to see small improvements, but they weren't sustainable because I wasn't caring for all of my needs. When I started to see real healing, that looked more like being Honest and authentic with people that were in my community and being real about the struggles that I had. Believe that the truth sets you free when you're with the right people. And so finding those people, that would encourage me and keep me accountable. And then for my physical body, that was just a big learning curve for me. Nutrition was not something my family talked about. Exercise was usually more of a social event. We did like pick up volleyball games here or there, or my mom enrolled us in summer sports to keep us busy. But like, exercise was not really a typical part of our routine. And so learning how to find movement, that felt good and that energized me instead of making me dread the idea. All those things I believe are what started me on that healing journey.
- [04:03]
A
That's wonderful. So you look at your overall health and your well being and you said also you have to be with the right people. What are the right people in this situation?
- [04:15]
B
Yeah, that's really difficult to nail down in terms of what that looks like because it's so different for each person. So I like to tell people, you know, if you're the type of person that goes and enjoys coffee with a friend and you feel energized and excited afterwards, then that is something that is a good coping skill for you. But other people don't feel the same way. They go and have coffee, even if it's one of their best friends, and they leave feeling drained. And that has a lot to do with just your chemical makeup, the way that your brain operates. I know there's a lot of talk out there about neurodivergence. And so certain neurodivergent type of people find communication like that very almost debilitating sometimes. So finding your people is such a personal thing. But I would say it needs to be someone that you know, if you shared something hard going on in your life with them, that they would sit in it with you. They're not going to give you a ton of advice of things you need to go do along to do list. And they're not going to dismiss it.
- [05:23]
A
Okay, not dismiss it and not give you a long, a longer list of to dos. Right. And also a very important element is really how you feel after you've been with somebody. Are you energized? Are you or you depleted? So for people that are suffering from depression, what are the signs that you feel, you know, and the thoughts you might have and that would be signs of depression?
- [05:50]
B
Yeah, I think probably the most common ones are feeling like your life is stagnant and there's no real like goals or hopes of anything getting better, changing. I think a lot of people that are depressed for a long period of time, they just feel stuck in it. And some other signs kind of from the outside would look like not enjoying things you used to. I worry when people don't have some sort of hobby or some sort of outlet for any negative energy they have. Sometimes that's exercising and other things that look like just caring for your body. Well, but I worry about people who are. I guess you have two sides of the spectrum. You have people that are very loud and the life of the party and they're just always big and exuberant. If they're always like that, it's kind of like a coping mechanism for people. There should be, you know, a healthy person should have days that they are excited and exuberant and want to be in the middle of all the fun. But also have some days where you know, you need a little rest now and then and you might not have as much energy. I think those people that are, that are always over the top, they're masking, they're trying to put on a show because they're hiding something. And on the other end of the spectrum you have those who tend to kind of slink away to a corner of the room. They don't really join in with conversation and are sometimes missed because they're quiet.
- [07:31]
A
They're.
- [07:32]
B
They're not seen as much.
- [07:34]
A
Very interesting. So you make several important points. One, if someone always has the same level of energy without variety, it might be a cover up. So because normal people have highs and lows, so that's would be one. And then you explain there's two types of. And it might be like somebody is super happy or pretends to be and exuberant and might be hiding really underneath a depression. But that sort of is a cover up that most people don't see the underneath or the person that is totally isolated and doesn't interact at all, which probably is easier to see that there's something, some issue. Very interesting. So let's say if you're in the office and you're an observer and you are managing people, what are the signs that that person is not doing well, that is affected by depression?
- [08:39]
B
Sure. The biggest red flag would be a change, some significant change in behavior. If you have an employee that's always on time, they're always prepared for their workday and they start showing up late or calling out sick way more than they normally do, that would be a good time to check in. With them. If you have an employee that they tend to try to talk a lot with other employees, they're the communicator, they're going and working on projects with other people and supporting others, and you notice they're kind of slinking back into staying in their own office, more in their own space and just not collaborating as much. That would be another warning sign.
- [09:24]
A
Okay, now you mentioned that the people have shame in sharing their struggles. So how do you overcome shame?
- [09:35]
B
So I believe there's two different types of shame. You have shame, that is something that you've kind of brought on yourself. Maybe you knew you had a big project at work and you just didn't want to do it. And there are consequences for that. And in a sense, I would say you should feel some level of shame for that, that you knew you had something to do and you chose not to. And for that type of shame, I would say that was legitimate. You in a way earned that. Then it is your responsibility to do what you can to fix the circumstances of that, particularly if it's affected other people, to make amends with them and then do your best to rectify the situation. The other type of shame I would call illegitimate shame. And that is shame that is caused by someone else, that is being bullied, that is being in maybe an abusive situation. Something was done to you that has in some way attacked your identity, that has made you feel something small or worthless in some manner. And that type of shame is something that needs to be shared with someone, that needs to be voiced, that you have felt that, as we mentioned before, with the safe people, your people, your trusted people. If you were to share that type of shame with them, then it should be met with empathy or sympathy, depending on if they've experienced something like that or not. And like I said earlier, you want people who are going to sit with you in it not try to fix you in that moment or be dismissive of that hurt. And so sometimes that's a little bit of trial and error. You might share something small with someone as a way to test how they would respond to you. And I think that's also something we can all learn how to do better, how to receive when someone we know is hurting in some way, to receive it well and not try to immediately fix them or, or remind them that someone else's problem's worse than theirs in some way.
- [11:40]
A
Yes. So it's not to minimize it by saying somebody has a worse off. It's not to fix it. Because like, okay, we're going to take care of this, which I'm sure a lot of people try. It's just to receive the pain that the other person is receiving, is expressing and show that they're not alone. I guess that's right. Which can be very hard to do. Yeah. What happens if the shame is both? You have shame because you brought on the problem, you did a lot of mistakes which are living with the consequences, and you're being humiliated about that. So there's two types of shames which you expressed very well. So is going to see a psychologist indicated or is the right people, as you say, sufficient?
- [12:37]
B
I would say, depending on the circumstances, that a lot of times when both shame is involved, it would be helpful to discuss that with a therapist or counselor. And I say that because it is very difficult to separate those two shames when you have a story that intertwines them. And you mentioned possibly you did something that caused shame, and then shame is compounded from others. But the opposite is also true. Often maybe someone was in some form of abuse and now they feel labeled. And so they tend to get stuck in these just toxic relationship cycles. And so at that point, it would be good for them to have someone that can kind of coach them through, okay, these are the things you are responsible for. If we're talking about relationships, it's your responsibility to seek out people who are a good influence on you that will help you grow and build a healthier life. But it's not your responsibility what has happened to you in the past, what what others have done to you. And so I think that is something that would take a skilled person in those type of things to be able to help you separate those.
- [13:47]
A
Very well said. Hmm. So you gave the precursor signs of the person that might be living have depression. I mean, is it possible that people are depressed and not aware of it?
- [14:00]
B
Oh, sure, yes. Especially if it's been a chronic problem. I think that it would be helpful for them to consider things that bring them joy and if they seek those things out or if they just kind of happen by accident occasionally, and to maybe even consider the things that they used to hope for that maybe they have now and they're not enjoying them, that would be a good sign of like chronic depression. People that hope to, you know, have a family or to have a certain type of house or a certain job, and once they've achieved that, they're not enjoying it would be a sign that they just need to maybe do some self reflection, do some evaluation of their thoughts. And I don't Think it's ever a bad idea to talk to a therapist or counselor? It might be that you, you're evaluated and you have a couple sessions and that's all you need. You might go and get evaluated and realize there's a deeper problem you weren't even aware of from something that happened years ago that you just never dealt with. And they can help you work through that.
- [15:08]
A
What happens if people that are depressed start trying to self medicate with drugs, alcohol or whatever?
- [15:17]
B
Yeah, that's a great point. That's another huge warning sign. And I think it's difficult, especially when it comes to alcohol, as it's such a socially accepted behavior. To drink and sometimes even excessively is still socially acceptable. And I think one of the biggest warning signs there would be is if you're doing it excessively often. So you might have a person who on a vacation, they may drink a little excessively while they're, you know, having a good time with their spouse or some friends. I wouldn't be as concerned about that person as someone who. That's a regular habit. Either daily or at least weekly. They're drinking very excessively. The like you mentioned drugs or other forms of self medication. I think a lot of people turn to those because it helps them kind of rest their brain in a sense. And it's so easily to get addicted to. Even just the idea of I need a brain break from whatever I'm dealing with. There's so many resources out there that help with addiction recovery. And I will say a lot of therapists and counselors are very careful about getting into the recovery realm. That's a very different type of therapy that you would receive. And I would encourage anyone who thinks they could have a problem to seek help.
- [16:49]
A
So where do you start? Do you start with the addiction or the depression? Because the addiction is the outcome of the depression, let's say, in the case we're discussing. So can you get rid of the addiction without getting to the core issue?
- [17:04]
B
That is a great question. You cannot fully be freed from that addiction without dealing with the root cause. But if you have not learned how to put in safeguards and made a commitment to start dealing with the addiction, then I don't think you'll ever get to that root cause. And so it is a tricky balance. Now, a good recovery facility does offer therapy, but they are trained for those who suffer with addiction. And it is a little bit more complicated for people who are choosing to self medicate because they're. They're going to need a different type of environment to be able to start working through whatever is the root cause of that addiction. But I would say you would need to address the addiction part. And as you start putting in safeguards, as you start making commitments to find healthier ways to manage whatever you've been struggling with, then you start doing that work.
- [18:08]
A
Okay, so basically you go in through the addiction, try to address it, and while you're dealing with the addiction is try to get safer ways, healthier ways to deal with the depression. Really?
- [18:22]
B
That's right.
- [18:23]
A
Yeah.
- [18:23]
B
Yeah.
- [18:24]
A
Okay, very good.
- [18:25]
B
Because while you're still using those other coping mechanisms, you won't be able to think clearly to do the work to manage that depression.
- [18:35]
A
I see. So the addiction really covers it like a blanket. So you can't get to the core if the blanket is sort of camouflaging everything. Would that be correct?
- [18:49]
B
That's right.
- [18:50]
A
Okay, so what helped you to get over the depression most?
- [18:55]
B
I really believe that just being honest with the people in my community was the biggest factor for me. I spent so many years hiding it. And when I was truthful about my state and had some people that really cared about my well being, it really opened my eyes to how bad it had gotten and began to see hope in something better. I believe even now when I share that I've struggled with these things, I'll have people come up to me, me and just thank me for sharing it out loud as it, it seems to validate what they're going through or have gone through. And I think it's important for us, to all, all humans to remember that we all have struggles and for us to try to hide that and, and seem like that's not a problem for us is really living a lie and that will eat away at you.
- [19:54]
A
Wonderful. So we're coming at the end of our podcast. Tell us, where can people get a hold of you? And before that, how do you help people personally?
- [20:04]
B
So I am finishing up my certification to do neuroscience coaching. I also do some public speaking. I'm doing some workshops locally to help with imposter syndrome and overcoming setbacks. You can find me on Instagram or Facebook. Book my name Tiffany L. Jones on Instagram. I also have the title of my book as part of my handle. That book is the Cursed Brain or my website is Tiffany Jones speaks.com and if you go to that website, you can find all the other ways to contact me. There's links to my social media there too.
- [20:41]
A
Great. Thank you so very much for sharing your knowledge and experience. Sure.
- [20:45]
B
Thank you for having me.
- [20:48]
C
Thank you for listening to the excellent, Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast. You can subscribe to all Future podcasts@excellentexecutivecoaching.com join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO mastermind, use the contact form@Excellent Executive Coaching.com.