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Excellent Executive Coaching: Growing Your Business and Enhancing Your Craft.
EEC 424: Why Employee Connection Is Becoming a Leadership Imperative, with Jonathan Thorp
00:24:26
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- [00:05]
A
Amid accelerating change and in a more complex environment, connection is critical. But 70% of employees feel disengaged from their organization. So what to do? So let's listen to Jonathan Thorpe from Quantum Connection, an expert in connection. Welcome to the excellent executive coaching podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katrina Verus. And today we have Dr. Jonathan Thorp. Did I say that correctly?
- [00:47]
B
You did. Good evening. How are you?
- [00:50]
A
Okay, so you've done a lot of research work, and so we're going to leverage your knowledge in that way. So what do traditional engagement metrics overlook?
- [01:03]
B
It's a great question. I think there's a lot of attention now being paid to these performance metrics. I think lots of businesses, lots of executives want to put their hands on the levers that produce results. And so they're paying attention to things like productivity and retention and profitability. I think those are the easiest ones to spot. I think what most of these metrics are missing, though, is recognizing that those are actually symptoms of causation that happens much earlier. And what I think they're missing is this level of interaction between supervisor or executive and employee that happens far sooner. So things like productivity, retention, profitability, even, are all downstream. And I think too many metrics are missing what takes place first, and that's the level of relational energy or connectivity that's happening between people.
- [01:55]
A
So in fact, you're saying that the indicators or the metrics of productivity are lagging indicators and that connection is the precursor. So tell us about what type of connections.
- [02:11]
B
Right. Principally, all kinds of connections matter in the workplace. Certainly peer to peer or employee to customer, all those connections do matter. But what we found is that the connection between employee and supervisor has the most dramatic effect on the result. And so we're paying attention to that. First, what's the relationship actually feel like between the boss and the employee?
- [02:36]
A
Say a little bit more. What is a good relationship? Of course, we can assume what a good relationship is, but between an employee and their boss, give us specific examples of what you consider a good relationship.
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B
I love the question. Yeah, of course. I think what we know to be the case is right now, most relationships don't reflect the level of relational connection that we'd like to see. And the evidence of that is, in the United states, close to 70% of employees report being disengaged. Worldwide, that number approaches, 80% of employees actually feel disengaged at work. That's horrific. Statistic. If you ask what employee relationships should look like, take a look at what they are right now. Employees go to work and they feel a sense of disconnection, disengagement. They are not being seen, they are not being heard. Specifically, the kinds of attributes we want to see are an employee going to work and actually knowing, believing and acting that they are truly seen in the workplace and that they're truly heard in the workplace. And that's not just notional. There are lots of dimensions of that. And specifically does the relationship deliver respect? Does the relationship deliver recognition? Does it deliver voice, support, development? All of these are dimensions of a proper, healthy supervisor, employee relationship that we really would like to paint a picture of.
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A
So they need to be seen, heard, respected, recognized, supported. Yes. Okay. Most people or leaders think they do that. So where's the gap?
- [04:23]
B
I think where most executives fall just a step short is when they actually work on themselves and they become, and they work to become more self aware in their leadership style. They think of their leadership style in terms of a monolith. They think it's one dimensional. My leadership style is blank. They think it's I'm a servant leader. They think it's I'm an authentic leader. But in truth, the leadership model that they should be working to develop is one of, of an adaptive style, meaning my style just doesn't translate to the team. My leadership style in truth really translates to each individual person on the team. And each person might need different dimensions of my leadership skills differently on different days, maybe even throughout the day. And so what I think most people mistake is they think oh, I'm just going to become more this to distribute my leadership skills to the organization when in fact they need to be much more agile in their leadership style and develop personalize leadership dimensions for each person on their direct teams. I think that's what most people miss and that's the gap that's created. Leadership is not one dimensional of course, it is certainly multi dimensional. And I think that's the higher end development skill that I think executive coaching needs to start addressing.
- [05:44]
A
You make a good point that people or they say my leadership style is X and X only works in one situation. And what you're saying is that they need to be able to adapt to the situation and to the people in the best way possible. For that they need to be self aware, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Well, tell us what they need to develop.
- [06:13]
B
Yeah, that's not a new dimension. Right. We've known about situational leadership for decades. I think what it suggests is that a leader can't even self describe their style, not act a leader May say, I want to be seen as a servant leader, I want to be seen as an authentic leader. But they don't get to declare that their audience or their team does more accurately. And so they should be asking their team, how would you describe my leadership style? And actually get an honest assessment from the audience from the recipients of that style. I think that's something that I think we would probably want to spend a little bit more time with.
- [06:47]
A
Okay, so once they get the feedback from their teams, how they're perceived, what's the next step in the coaching process?
- [06:56]
B
I like to think of emotional intelligence as being incredibly relevant to this question and to a coaching practice. In terms of emotional intelligence, I like to think that there are two hemispheres, one's internal and one's external. And internally, self awareness is both awareness and management, and externally, self awareness becomes awareness and management. And what I mean by that is it's not enough to identify what kind of drivers motivate you inside your terms of your needs and your wants and your makeup. I have to be aware of that, but I also need to manage that. So that's half of the equation for a leader to consider. The other half is externally, I need to be socially aware of what my needs are, what my roles are, and what my effects are in an external social environment. But a good leader also not just is aware of that, but they also manage that so they can effectively put their hands on the levers and actually draw those elements up or down based on the situation. And so when we talk about self awareness, it's not just, oh, how am I wired? It's really how am I wired and how do I manage that, and how do I interact with the outside world and how do I manage that? So four dimensions of emotional intelligence I think are appropriate.
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A
Okay, and tell us, what is the role of connection which you just described? It's emotional intelligence, both internal and external, and being able to manage those emotions and self awareness for the person or the situation. So how is this so important in a period of uncertainty?
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B
Yeah, you hear all the time that money is made by an executive. In the VUCA space. You hear that expression V U, C A? It's an acronym in English that is popularized.
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A
Let's make sure that the listeners know. Would you say what each letter means, please?
- [08:54]
B
I'd be happy to. The expression VUCA is said to represent the varsity, the most advanced thinking, decision making space an executive has to face. And VUCA stands for volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. And I think what is meant by that is that anybody can operate in the world of boundaries and conditions that are known. Where an executive will make their money, will stand apart, and really prove valuable is when they can operate in the VUCA space, when things are volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous. And I think that's the role of connection in the executive space when we talk about it, is because all four of those elements are almost universally present. That's what, in fact, executives are expected to solve are those conditions. So when those conditions are present, it's incredibly important that an executive will monitor their communication skills so they can establish connections, so they can actually understand the terms, the details, the complexities that are present, and they can actually make as informed a decision as possible with the greatest amount of clarity. If they disregard connection and they just assume that perhaps my role or my position or my authority will dictate an information flow, then I think those executives will underperform. And so that's why I would encourage people to pay attention to the level of interpersonal connection. It's foundational, but it is so often overlooked. And I'll say this as well. I think it gets worse the more senior executives become, because I think people are less apt to challenge those communication and connection skills. As people become more senior, people are just expected to command this wealth of interpersonal ability. And in some cases, that continues to grow and improve, but in other cases, it atrophies and actually worsens. But if the employee or the executive becomes so senior, there becomes a shrinking audience of people willing to challenge that executive, that maybe their connectivity and their communication skills aren't what they should be.
- [10:59]
A
Okay, so what you attribute that atrophy of being connected?
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B
My experience. I've seen people make a presumption that other people should know what I need. If I'm an executive who's become senior with tenure, then because I've been here long enough, people should know what I need. People should anticipate what information I have to have. They will want to anticipate my behaviors. And in some cases, executives behave very predictably. And I think that actually sets up a situation where people do anticipate what that executive is going to need, and they kind of support that behavior. They keep supplying the information, the activities, the behaviors that the executive is expecting. The executive is not challenging themselves to go back to the audience and saying, is what we're doing the most efficient? Is what we're doing the most effective way to get there? And it atrophies because of a lack of curiosity. If we're getting okay results, we're not challenging the organization to say, could we be getting better results? I think that happens over time and I think it's something that probably people need to be on the lookout for.
- [12:10]
A
So they've been successful to get where they are and therefore they get lazy at one point, if I could say it difficult. Lazy in a way that they don't question their underlying assumptions or make the effort, as you say, of curiosity to explore and keeping curious and adapting to the other. Is that correct?
- [12:34]
B
From my experience, success has a way of doing that. It breeds a sense of comfort and it's not always the healthiest outcome. Right. We have to be challenging ourselves, we have to be questioning ourselves and making sure that sometimes the voices of the most junior people in our organization are the first ones to spot it. They might have the least amount of tenure and familiarity with the way we've been doing things for the longest time. And so sometimes if they're sponsored, if they sense a sense of psychological safety, they'll speak up and they'll say, I may be new, but what about this? Here's an observation, here's something I've noticed. Is that the smartest way. So not only will the senior executive need to self assess and self challenge their ideas, but hopefully they'll also sponsoring an environment where other people feel safe enough to challenge the way things are done. Convention and maybe the history of experience.
- [13:33]
A
Yes, I think you make a very important point. And if they feel that psychological safety, they'll tell the problems that they see and communicate it in a timely way so that the leader can react positively or have at least more time before it becomes a crisis. Yes, absolutely. So there's two points I would like to ask. One, a lot of organization defaults to compensation perks and especially flexibility since COVID And you challenge that, that's saying that's not the way to go about it. Those incentives don't really work. So can you comment on that?
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B
Yeah. I don't know that flexibility and compensation are bad levers. I think they're very popular because I think they're very transparent. I would probably argue that they're not my favorite levers because here's why. I think compensation is a short term fix. And I think compensation tends to dampen the exit reflex, which is good, which is the first half of this. But it doesn't do enough to promote real connectivity and real buy in and real commitment. And I think that's what connection does on a much deeper level. Sure, compensation is easy to solve. It's the easiest one to plan around and budget. But I would rather have the executive make an investment not in money, but in time, and invest into the relational energy of their workforce and build these strong bonds, these connections, so that people feel again seen and heard. That's the thing they're not going to walk away from. They will walk away from a decent paying job. They will also walk away from a lousy feeling job. You know, we've all heard this expression, people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses. And I think if I were borrow your expression, One of my favorite new expressions I've heard is they don't leave bosses, they leave brilliant jerks. Yes, but in as much that's not even true. I think what they do is they quit the disconnection that some bosses allow. I'm leaving the feeling of disconnection at work, of disengagement work, because that feels horrible. And I don't want to demonize these bosses by saying these are evil people that are trying to sponsor disconnection and disengagement. I don't think that's the case. I think these are mostly decent people that are either inattentive or they're untrained, or they're uninspired to really know how to promote connection. So if they think their job is narrowly execute on mission and get my team behind me, they miss the real opportunity, which is establish a connection with each person on the team. I think most leaders will probably blow that off because they think I couldn't possibly take the time to build a real connection with 10 people if there are 10 people on my team. But you have to, you have to build connections with each person on your team.
- [16:27]
A
So that comes to the next question is how do you scale connection?
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B
I think you have to scale connection with a conversational reflex so that it's not a formal program. We don't have to bring in a team, although teams exist to teach organizations how to do this. I think the way you scale it is by demonstrating a curiosity and an interest and a want to help every single person in your organization feel seen and heard. Now, the more senior you become, the sometimes the more countercultural, that is the senior. Most executives are not expected to have relationships with every person in the organization. And that's too bad. While they don't have to invest the same amount of time, if they could demonstrate the same willingness to spend time with each person in the organization, that's the differentiator. No matter how small or how large, if they can, as a matter of habit, take the time to Ask somebody how is their day going? What's going on in their life? Are there concerns that they have? Are there worries that they have? You know, we spend a lot of time talking and fretting over the knowns. We don't spend enough time talking and fretting about the unknowns because our employers certainly do. They are afraid of the uncertainty that lies ahead. Thirty years ago, we gave loyalty for stability. Today that the contract is totally different. Today the employee contract is, I will give you performance in exchange for opportunity. And because staffing has become so much more tactical, we don't have these measures of safety in the workforce today. And I think that's why executives have to be better. They have to be more committed to establishing connection with a wider variety of people because our employees are needing that in return. That was a long answer. I'm sorry, but that was a great question.
- [18:19]
A
No, but it was a good answer. For example, I'll give an example that the CEO of Nestle did, the prior CEO of Nestle, he would have lunch once every month, I think with people from different levels of the organization. And so he would just sit around and have a discussion so that he would hear, which he would never have otherwise. Different levels. Another person that was the chairman of a well known company, Tenneco, he mentioned that to feel that his employees were more connected. Of course he couldn't have direct connection. So he wrote a blog about his life, about what he was going through. Of course, not confidential strategies, but just to humanize him vis a vis the people that was working. And there were several thousand people working. And he was surprised to see how people really came up to him and said, so how's your child? This. And it's two ways that top level tried to do that. I would like to hear your ways of what you suggest leaders to do.
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B
Yeah, I'll give you a couple. And not to overwhelm the audience because if you have a thousand ideas, then you really don't have one to start with. But I would say this. The first thing I would encourage executives to do is make a practice of mirroring a person before solving. And what I mean by that is oftentimes executives are hair triggered. Their reflux reaction is to solve the question asked because they want to demonstrate value and expertise. I think a more effective approach is to mirror the person. And what I mean by that is if somebody approaches me with a question or a sentiment, I'm going to take the time to make sure that I truly understand it. And when they talk to me, I Will say, so if I got you, if I heard you. And they actually reflect back as much as I've got. And then I ask them, did I get it? Is that it? And I give them a chance to correct or improve or validate what I've really captured. As you know, communication is not a one way burst, it's really a two way exchange. But too seldom we take the time to make sure each person has the message. And that's not all. In mirroring, we also do a third thing, which is ask the person, is there more? So I start by saying, if I got you, did I get it? And the third step is, is there more? Almost never in a day's time are we asked to go further, to add more, to go beyond. And I think that's what people secretly crave. The opportunity, the invitation to deliver more information. And so I do that. I would encourage people, number one is to mirror before solving. The second thing I would say is in spirit of recognition and appreciating our employees, to really build that sense of connection. Don't just name the result, but actually also name the effort and describe to your understanding the effort that went involved to deliver the result. If all we do is just celebrate the results, we miss some of the contributing efforts and behaviors that go into that. And to truly help people feel recognized, we want to name both the effort and the result. And then the third thing I'd ask for folks to do to scale this and to actually take this to the next level is actually ask one curiosity question in every meeting you're in. Take the time to remind yourself, ask one more question that says, is there anything here that I haven't considered? Is there anything here we're missing? Or how would our competition interpret this action? How would our market interpret this action? How would a customer interpret this action? These are curiosity questions and I would encourage people to ask at least one in each meeting you're a part of.
- [22:08]
A
Very good. So I'm gonna mirror what you just said. One is mirror before solving. Second, appreciate the employees not just for the results, but to be sure that you recognize them for the effort. Third is scale. Ask one curiosity question, is there anything I missed? And it could go vis a vis clients, employees or other. Is that correct?
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B
Got it exactly right.
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A
Ah, so we're coming to the end of our podcast. Tell us first of all where people can get a hold of you and one wisdom that you'd like to share with the listeners.
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B
The way to find out more about the work we do is by going to www.quantumconnections.com I'd love for this conversation to kind of start to spread because the one thing that I feel like we're not paying enough attention to is the level and the value of relationships in the workplace. I think too much is made sometimes of results and metrics and we forget that there are actual human beings. For as long as human beings are involved in the process, there are still actual human beings in the process. And we have to take notice of the value of these relationships before people find somewhere else to work for that actually will value those relationships. I think that's the one thing that I've appreciated most in the last five years, and I think most of my coaching clients benefit from great and where
- [23:37]
A
can people get a hold of you at your website? Just repeat it for us for our listeners one more time.
- [23:43]
B
You bet. It's quantumconnections.com wonderful.
- [23:47]
A
Thank you so very much, Jonathan, for this important message you're communicating.
- [23:52]
B
You bet. I've enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for the time.
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A
Thank you.
- [23:57]
B
Thank you for listening to the excellent Executive Coaching Podcast. You can see. Subscribe to all Future podcasts@excellentexecutivecoaching.com join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO mastermind, use the contact form@excellentexecutivecoaching.com.