EEC 427: How Using Your Whole Brain Drives Organizational Performance, with Stephanie Bacon

Summary

---

Excellent Executive Coaching: EEC 427

How Using Your Whole Brain Drives Organizational Performance

Host: Dr. Katrina Burrus PhD, MCC
Guest: Dr. Stephanie Bacon
Date: April 7, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dr. Katrina Burrus sits down with Dr. Stephanie Bacon—educator, trauma-informed breathwork facilitator, and expert in embodied social and emotional learning (SEL). The discussion dives into the concept of using the "whole brain" for organizational performance. Together, they explore how nervous system regulation, embodied SEL, and expanded human capacity foster better leadership, more engaged teams, and higher organizational effectiveness. Dr. Bacon provides practical examples, robust frameworks, and actionable strategies, making complex neuroscience accessible for executive coaches, leaders, and organizations alike.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Human Capacity and Organizational Performance

• Neglected Aspect of Performance:
  "We don't talk a lot about capacity in terms of humans... But what about our capacity to be human—of our ability to perform, think, and also feel depends on our nervous system." (Bacon, [01:10])
• Core Idea: Enhancing an organization’s performance starts with enhancing each individual’s nervous system capacity—not just their skills or knowledge.

2. State of the Nervous System: Regulation vs. Dysregulation

• Dysregulation in Modern Lives:
  "Our lives are more busy than previous generations... we are taking in inputs that the human body is not used to inputting. And that puts us into a survival state." (Bacon, [02:40])
• Consequences: When in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn mode, people cannot fully access strategic thinking or innovation; they tend toward self-protection and default to old habits.
• Practical Example: Dr. Bacon uses breathwork in group settings to quickly shift clients out of "stressed" states and into a regulated, receptive mode. Breathwork is especially accessible:
  "Breathwork gave me a tool that was so active it could very quickly regulate my nervous system." (Bacon, [03:29])
• Impact: Once regulated, teams are more engaged, ask better questions, collaborate more, and can process new information effectively.

3. Embodied SEL & Social-Emotional Competence

• Definition of Embodied SEL:
  Not just understanding social-emotional skills, but living them—integrating the mind, emotions, and body in real time.
  "When I talk about embodied SEL, it’s learning how to tune into those cues of the body." (Bacon, [10:54])
• Critical Competency Domains:
  • Self-awareness
  • Other awareness
  • Relational awareness
  • Decision impact awareness
  • Cultural awareness and sensitivity ([08:50])
• Key Statistic:
  "In fact, 80% of the messages going between brain and body are from your body to your brain. 20% is from brain to body." (Bacon, [10:17])
• Tuning Into the Body: Learn to recognize sensations (e.g., tension in the chest) and ask, "What does that sensation mean? Is this anxiety? Is it fear? Is it anger?" ([10:36])

4. Hidden Organizational Costs of Ignoring SEL

• Truth-Telling & Safety:
  "The biggest cost... is when people don't know how to or don't feel safe to tell the truth... They're telling about 80% of the truth or not the whole truth. And it's that 20% that will stall an initiative." (Bacon, [12:09])
• Financial Impact: Poor social and emotional competence leads to failed initiatives, wasted investment, and stunted innovation.
• Leadership Modeling: Leaders need to model regulated, honest, and vulnerable communication to foster a culture of truth-telling and critical feedback:
  "Leaders need to be talking to their teams in that same language of saying, 'I've been worried about this issue... How can you work with me?'" (Bacon, [14:30])

5. Capacity vs. Motivation

• Crucial Distinction:
  "Motivation is great. That doesn’t mean we can do it. Because when we are dysregulated... you can't make that aligned action step that would get you to that goal." (Bacon, [15:43])
• Safe vs. Strategic Decisions:
  "When we are dysregulated, we cannot make the healthy decision. We're going to make the safe decision." (Bacon, [16:45])
  Dr. Burrus reiterates:
  "You take the safe decision and not the most strategic or the best for yourself or the company." (Burrus, [16:59])
• Personal Development as Organizational Leverage:
  Personal improvement in relationships fuels professional growth and vice versa:
  "When people are having successful relationships in their personal lives, they show up to work in different ways." (Bacon, [18:12])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Embodiment:

  "It’s learning how to tune into those cues of the body."
  — Dr. Stephanie Bacon ([10:54])

• On Truth-Telling:

  "It's getting people regulated so that when they hear someone's truth, they can actually listen to it without feeling threatened."
  — Dr. Stephanie Bacon ([13:37])

• On Motivation vs. Capacity:

  "Your nervous system is your fuel to make decisions from the best part of your intelligence."
  — Dr. Stephanie Bacon ([16:10])

• On the Systemic Impact of SEL:

  "It doesn’t affect only the person, it affects their relationships beyond the workplace and in the family."
  — Dr. Katrina Burrus ([19:09])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:10] — Human capacity and why it matters
• [02:20] — Regulating vs. dysregulated nervous systems explained; breathwork as a tool
• [05:42] — States of mind: Strategic vs. stress-driven decision making
• [07:35] — Embodied SEL: Beyond knowledge to lived experience
• [11:21] — Organizational costs of disregarding adult SEL
• [15:42] — Differentiating capacity and motivation; real-world implications
• [18:12] — Personal development’s ripple effect on professional environments

---

Flow and Tone

The conversation weaves together science, practical leadership coaching, and personal stories with warmth and candor. Dr. Bacon’s language is accessible yet deeply informed by research; Dr. Burrus skillfully draws out real-world applications and keeps the discussion grounded.

---

Resources & Contact

• Stephanie Bacon’s Website: rippleffectembodiedsel.com
• TikTok: rippleeffectembodiedself
• LinkedIn: Stephanie Bacon, PhD

---

This episode is essential for leaders, executive coaches, and HR professionals seeking not just to motivate, but to empower individuals to operate from their highest cognitive, emotional, and relational potential—the true keys to organizational success.

Transcript

[A]

We all want to use the entire mental capacity. We have to make the best decisions to be strategic, to be tactical. But often we're in the stress, fight, flight or freeze mode. How can we get out of that mode to make return to a better thinking situation? So let's ask Dr. Stephanie Bacon how she shifts her client into using the whole brain. Welcome to the excellent executive coaching podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katrina Burus and today we have Dr. Stephanie Bacon. Stephanie, welcome.

[B]

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I think our work is really in alignment and this is going to be a great conversation.

[A]

Yes, me too. I'm looking forward. My first question is, you say human capacity is missing in organizational performance. Can you comment on that?

[B]

Absolutely. We don't talk a lot about capacity in terms of humans. We talk about financial capacity, we talk about skill based capacity. But what about our capacity to be human, of our ability to perform, think, and also feel depends on our nervous system. And so developing the capacity of the nervous system is kind of the foundational step to allowing people to have access to their full intelligence. And so when I talk about developing capacity, what I'm really talking about is getting people into the part of their brain that is the most high functioning and also getting into the part of the rest of the human system which is the heart and the body, and also allowing that information to lead people to more clear communications, better relationships, and of course, their ability to handle stressors in real time.

[A]

That's wonderful. Give us an example how you do that so our listeners can really imagine the situation.

[B]

Of course. So I'm guessing your listeners have started to notice that people are talking more and more about nervous system regulation, but they might not know exactly what that means. And so when we talk about regulation or dysregulation, we're really talking about the state of our nervous system which is running our body. And when we're dysregulated, it means that we're in a state that is fight, flight, freeze or fawn. And when we're dysregulated, because we're in that state, we're acting from a survival state. Many of us are already there because our lives are more busy than previous generations, more busy than, you know, human evolution has gotten us prepared for. So we are taking in inputs that the human body is not used to inputting. And that puts us into a survival state. Fight, flight, freeze or flawn. When we're there, we're using a lower part of our brain, different part of the brain. And I'M not a neuroscientist, but I've studied the brain enough as an educator to know that when we're in that place, it's really hard for us to intake new information with grace and with receptivity. And so from that place, there's always friction. New information, whether it's good or bad, helpful or not, is received as just another stimulus, just another thing for our body to have to manage. When we're in fight, we're going to say heck no. When we're in flight, we're going to ignore it. When we're in freeze, we're going to shut down. And when we're in font, we're going to say yes, but we're going to mean no, because we really can't take it on right at that moment. And those dispositions and those states show up in how we work. So when I work with clients, and usually I'm working with large groups and teams, the first thing I do is have them think about everything that's on their plate, everything that they had to set down in order to be at that meeting with me. And then I take them into a regulating practice. So I'm a certified trauma informed breathwork facilitator as well. And so I use breathwork mostly because it's a great tool for really busy people. I was a very busy person who really struggled with meditation or other mindful practices. But breathwork gave me a tool that was so active it could very quickly regulate my nervous system. It was something that was active enough that if my mind wandered, it came right back because I had to be doing something. So in my workshops, we'll essentially set down all the things on our to do list that are done. Dysregulating will do a three to seven minute breath work experience that usually changes the state of the nervous system. People come back to a regulated state, they come back to the prefrontal cortex in their brain, and they're able to then receive whatever the new information is, whether it's a new initiative, a new training, a new software they need to use with more intelligence. And that might show up as they're asking better questions or they're engaged in the learning, taking notes, they're collaborating better with their colleagues. Does that make sense?

[A]

Oh, absolutely. Yes, indeed. But I think you expressed it well that these two states is one where you're using much more strategic outlook because your brain, you're using a bigger part of your brain, or you're sort of like in stress mode and you have the fight Flight or freeze, which is. It's a part of your brain. It's in the ac. Magnala, which is a pre. How do you stay.

[B]

It's our primal. It's the primal.

[A]

That's the word I was looking for.

[B]

First part of our brain that's developing. And of course, it was designed to keep us safe. And a really good example of what can show up is, for example, a leader is really excited. Perhaps they've been introduced to a new tool or strategy. They're excited to share it with their team, and they go to that sharing opportunity, and they're not getting the engagement or feedback they want because it is putting the person in that state of, oh, my goodness, it's one more thing. And so it's that kind of gap between the person who has bought in, that leader who knows this is a promising tool, and the person who's receiving it as just another threat to their survival. And in that place, there can be so many miscommunications that really slow down our progress towards any goal that we're trying to achieve.

[A]

Yes. I interviewed the CEO of Nestle, prior CEO of Nestle, and he said, my biggest challenge is the communication between top management and middle management. There's a miscommunication there. And you've just underlined that. That's great. I also want to ask you, you say here, embod, what do you mean by that? Is that what you're referring to when you shift into your body?

[B]

It's partly what I'm referring to. And I love that you picked up on that because body is the root word of that term. With the term embodied sel, I want to clarify for people. Most people have heard about SEL as an acronym for social and Emotional learning, and they typically think about it in terms of what students are learning in schools. I was an educator for over 25 years, so that's part of the context. But social and emotional learning is something we're doing every single day. People are doing it within their own relationships. They're saying, oh, this worked, this didn't. Oftentimes in relationship. When we're social emotional learning, we are pinning the problem on the other person. We're saying, oh, they are this way. And so I don't know if I can work with them. When I talk about embodied sel, it's really two things. It applies to everyone, not just children, and applies to anyone who wants to do better in their relationships, whether it's parenting, personal partnership, but also in their work relationships. And when I talk about being Embodied. It's not just knowing what the skills and strategies are, it's living them. And it really relies on two things. One, regulating your nervous system and pausing before you respond from a dysregulated state. That brings me to the next thing that resides in embodied sel. That is a research based framework of social and emotional competence. There's a large body of research that is linked to really high quality outcomes for human success. And that's a social and emotional competence framework. It is self awareness, other awareness. Which brings us to relational awareness, decision impact awareness, cultural awareness and sensitivity. It's really hard to have any of those awarenesses if your nervous system isn't regulated. Because when we're dysregulated in fight or flight, we're only thinking about ourselves and our survival. Which makes it really hard for us to go back to that example I used to to understand why a leader might be presenting us a strategy for us to see it from their perspective and for that leader to see the team's pushback and perhaps a perspective that is really important for the leader to hear. So when I talk about embodying it. So many SEL programs involve someone coming in and saying, you need to be self aware, you need to be other aware and teaching the language. But what I do is give people the experience and they can't have that experience with the dysregulated nervous system. We teach them how to regulate and breath work is a quick tool, but there's so many tools for self regulation that help people get back into that more intelligent version of themselves. When I talk about the body being part of embodiment, is that something many of us didn't learn growing up is that our mind isn't running the whole show. In fact, 80% of the messages going between brain and body are from your body to your brain. 20% is from brain to body. So when we talk about embodiment, the language of the body is emotions. And first we experience those emotions as sensations. You might feel tension in your chest. You can pause right there. We use the term interoception and get curious about what does that sensation mean? Is this anxiety? Is it fear, Is it anger? And so that's why we talk about embodied sel. It's learning how to turn into those cues of the body.

[A]

That's excellent. Very well explained as well. So tell us the hidden cost of organization if they don't pay attention to adult social and emotional competence.

[B]

Well, I would love for us to kind of collaborate on this because I knew you talked about it as well, which I love. I loved hearing what you had to say. And that's what leaders really need to tune in into. There is a significant cost, and ultimately it can cost them in their bottom line. The social and emotional competence of employees can absolutely influence your profit margins. But the way I will just start by saying the biggest cost that I think is associated with a lack of social and emotional competence is when people don't know how to or don't feel safe to tell the truth. And I'm pausing right there because I really want your audience to hear it. What's happening in organizations is that people who really are honest humans and have high integrity are so busy and so trying to work around the humans they work with that they're telling about 80% of the truth or not the whole truth. And it's that 20% that will stall an initiative. Right. And if you've invested a million dollars in a software or initiative or training program, and the truth is that people don't understand why it's happening. They don't have the time to practice it. They're afraid to ask the questions about it, you're going to throw that million dollars in the trash. It's going to be another initiative where you get mediocre results and so you buy, yet the next thing you think is going to work. So right there, there's two things about truth telling that are really important. It's getting people regulated so that when they hear someone's truth, they can actually listen to it without feeling threatened. So if you're already in fight flight and someone tells you, I'm really not sure this initiative is going to work, this program has some gaps in it. If a person's not regulated, they're immediately going to turn defensive and not be able to hear that really important feedback that could be costing your organization millions. The other thing is people have to learn how to tell the truth without attacking. And so that means they need to get deeply aware of what's going on for them inside regarding this issue that can be communicated with care in a way that doesn't lead to conflict and actually leads to common understanding and connection. And so that could be language frames, but I actually think it most often happens intuitively when people slow down and get in touch with their body and can say, instead of this initiative, this software is broken and there are holes in it. Can say, I'm really afraid of my ability to use this software. Given all the other tasks that I'm juggling right now. I don't understand it well enough, and I'm afraid I'm going to use it improperly and make mistakes. What leader isn't going to meet that with grace? But again, that's a communication skill and it has to be modeled from the top. Leaders need to be talking to their teams in that same language of saying, I've been worried about this issue. It seems to be recurring. I can see it's having a big impact. How can you work with me? What suggestions do you have? Come from that place instead of like the top down. Come from that emotional place. Even a leader that says, I'm feeling a lot of tension in my chest. This is hard for me to talk about. We've been working on this problem for decades. It's still there. That will open up. That takes people out of accusation and, oh, I gotta defend myself from whatever's coming next to, how can I help this person? It brings them into their prefrontal cortex and is like, I'm gonna dig out my best critical thinking because I respect this person and I want to help. People love to help. So if you learn how to communicate from that place, people will step up to their highest intelligence.

[A]

Yeah. So how do you relate this to motivation and the difference between motivation and capacity?

[B]

So one thing, motivation is great. How many of us have been motivated to achieve a really important goal in our lives? Run the marathon, lose the weight, change your diet, have a better relationship with your spouse or your kids. We've all been motivated. That doesn't mean we can do it. Because when we are dysregulated, we don't. You can't make that aligned action step that would get you to that goal. It doesn't matter. The brain and the body are doing something else. So, for example, if you're feeling attacked all the time, you're spending so much of your capacity on defending yourself. Whatever you're motivated to do can't happen. It's essentially like expecting to run a marathon without any fuel. You have to eat something. Your nervous system is your fuel to make decisions from the best part of your intelligence, that prefrontal cortex, to get you to the goal. And sometimes those decisions are hard. Right. When we are dysregulated, we cannot make the healthy decision. We're going to make the safe decision. And the safe decision is always the decision we've done before that probably didn't get us where we want to be.

[A]

I think that's a very good point. I just want to underline it. You take the safe decision and not the most strategic or the best for yourself or the company.

[B]

Exactly. You're going to make the comfortable decision. None of us like to be uncomfortable, but change requires discomfort because we have to do something different if we want things to be the same, keep doing the same thing. So it's your ability to step through that discomfort, because when you're regulated, you can talk yourself through it. You can tell yourself, gosh, this feels really uncomfortable. But it's something I haven't done before, so I know it's going to give me different results. The other thing I'd add about motivation is so many organizations will do an emotional intelligence training or a social and emotional learning training and expect the human in that room to learn it in terms of their person as an employee, a worker, a leader. But we are most motivated by our personal relationships. Nothing breaks my heart or messes with my mind and body more than when either one of my sons is struggling. Right. That engages me, and so I don't have to be coerced. People are very motivated by their own personal lives and relationships. And when you allow them to develop personally, they will also develop professionally because they'll love it so much that they'll be so excited. Oh, gosh, you know, I had this great relationship or this great conversation with my son because I use some of those tools of self regulation I learned at work, and then they'll bring it into the work. Also, when people are having successful relationships in their personal lives, they show up to work in different ways. They're happier, they're more willing to help out. Social and emotional skills get in the way of all of our relationships. And so when we know how to relate to all of the humans better, we show up everywhere, we go better. And that's what we really want to create in our organization. So they can be hubs of connection, hubs of innovation. Does that make sense?

[A]

Oh, yeah. And then it has a systemic impact. What you're saying it doesn't affect only the person, it affects their relationships beyond the workplace and in the family. Yes. Well, we're coming to the end of our podcast, and I wonder, how can people get a hold of you?

[B]

Yeah, I would love to connect with your audience. I have a website. It's www.rippleffectembodiedsel.com. you can find me at TikTok for some quick fun videos at ripple effectembodied self. I'm on LinkedIn at Stephanie Bacon, PhD.

[A]

Great. Thank you so much, Stephanie. It was most interesting. And of course, it was so fun

[B]

to talk with you.

[A]

Yeah, you take care and thanks again.

[B]

Thank you for listening to the Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast. You can subscribe to all Future [e-mail] join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO mastermind, use the contact form at Excellent Executive Coaching.