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Excellent Executive Coaching: Growing Your Business and Enhancing Your Craft.
EEC 431: What Are the Conditions to Heighten Our Creativity, with Andre Walton
00:32:03
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- [00:05]
A
We all want to be more creative when we're young, creativity is natural to us. But what happens when we grow older? We tend to lose it. So what can we do to tap into more creativity as we grow up? And when we're under pressure, let's ask Dr. Andre Walton. He'll explain how we can tap into more creativity. Welcome to the excellent executive coaching podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Katrina Berus, and today we have Dr. Andre Walter. Okay, Andre, so you're a social psychologist today. Tell us a little bit. How did you find creative thinking for leaders who don't see themselves as creative? So maybe define what you understand by creative and then answer this question, please.
- [01:08]
B
Yes, absolutely. Yes. I think one of my roles really is to reposition creativity in people's minds. It is often trivialized to the extent where it's either something that Aunt Dottie did when she gave up her job and got a paint box, or people are citing, well, it to do with why we've got the Internet and the iPhone and the jet engine. And while these things may be true, it misses the real fundamental point of creativity. Since the days of the spear and the bow and arrow and the wheel, right up to what we've got now. Creativity is the source of our social evolution. We don't have AI and the Internet because we've got opposable thumbs. We have them because we've got tens of thousands of years of experience being curious, being creative, and being innovative. Creativity is a fundamental human drive. Creative thinking. If we deprive ourselves of any fear, fundamental human drive, we have negative consequences. You know, one, a very strong, powerful drive is the drive to be connected to other people. If we prevent somebody from doing that by solitary confinement or something like that, can have very negative consequences. And similarly, I believe that being lured away from creative thinking, the creative thinking that we all had as kids, has in large part deprived us of creative thinking as a kind of automatic reaction. So what that leaves us is a process of deductive, analytical thinking. Now, let me balance.
- [02:55]
A
Yes, yes, we need this balance. But, for example, sometimes you need to be alone. You said if you're isolated and you don't have this natural need of connection, you're not creative. But often people like I was in the arts, I needed to be isolated to catalyze the emotion I was feeling to be creative. So what's your comment on that?
- [03:19]
B
Oh, I think that's a great observation. And it's a natural function of being a creative person or doing something creative. I mean, when we're we have two fundamental drives related to relationships. One of them is this drive to be connected to others, but the other is a drive to demonstrate our uniqueness, our individuality. And of course, it's that end of the spectrum, the individuality end, that relates to creativity, because creativity is inherently doing something new and unique. And so when we're in a group, we're focused on our similarities to others in that group. When we go to a ball game, we might be wearing a sweater that is the colors of the team we support kind of thing.
- [04:09]
A
Right, good example.
- [04:11]
B
And when we're being individual, when we're trying to display our individuality, that's when creativity takes place. So you can't really, for instance, in the old fashioned way that people put together brainstorming, you created a group to try and generate new ideas. Well, those are two contradictory things. You really need to have the space to be on your own when you want to be creative, because that's the only way that you can focus on your individuality. The instant that you're in a group, you are focused on your similarity to others. So I think that observation you made is very accurate. And if you look back through biographies and even friends that are creative, they often disappear from their group for a length of time, however that long that is. It might be hours, it might be days, or in the case of my artistic sister, it can be weeks. And they disappear off to do their creating, and then they'll come back to the space with other people. Now, if you talk about solitary confinement, that's not a voluntary action. That's something that people are forced to do. So that lack of option is an important difference.
- [05:25]
A
Yeah, good point, a very good point. But what about people say, oh, get together, team, we work together, we'll brainstorm together. And we need to listen to everyone's point of view. And they say that gives more creativity, more original outcome. What's your comment on that?
- [05:42]
B
Well, a lot of people have studied that kind of process, and it's a typical brainstorming process, isn't it? And it goes hand in hand with team building. You really mentioned both of those things in that sentence. And studies show that while it makes people feel all kind of warm and fuzzy, these activities are not actually very conducive to creativity. In other words, if you have six people sitting around a table brainstorming, you will get fewer unique ideas than if you tell those six people to disappear off in all directions and brainstorm individually.
- [06:22]
A
Great point.
- [06:23]
B
People don't always realize that, but you know, because it Feels good doesn't necessarily mean it's having the outcome that you want.
- [06:30]
A
And yet ample leaders say we need to do a team building activity. But it's more to have the connection between the people than to actually have an idea that's original or to have them bond with the action the leader wants to have them take.
- [06:49]
B
Yes, that's absolutely right. And quite often, if I'm speaking in front of a group, people will say yes, but I mean, all great innovations are a function of a number of people. I mean, very seldom are they an individual. And of course that's true, but that's not talking about the original generation of the idea. So in terms of turning curiosity into creativity and then creativity into an innovation, that last stage is a time when you do need people, you do need other people involved, and there will be creative parts to that last stage. But the generation of that original idea is essentially an individual activity.
- [07:34]
A
Right. And that's distinguishing the difference between creativity, which is unique, and innovation is the product, the outcome of the creativity that can be tangible.
- [07:46]
B
Yes, exactly that. I mean, they're quite often used interchangeably. And you know, as somebody that studied that whole process for nearly three decades, you know, the hair goes up on the back of my neck when people do that. I want to kind of say, no, no, no, no, that's not quite true, you're right.
- [08:04]
A
So tell us, what happens when leaders are under pressure, what happens to their creativity?
- [08:11]
B
Well, there's a well established phenomenon called seizing and freezing. And when we're under pressure and we have to make, for instance, a decision, we will tend to seize upon the first option that we can see to solve the problem. And we'll freeze our examination of any other possibilities. Now if you translate that into a context of creativity that is a symptom of that. We are beginning to get like that racehorse with blinders on. And stress is focusing us on looking straight ahead. And creativity, of course, requires that we look at the big picture. Creativity is essentially making connections across domains that are not obvious, that have not been done before in that way. So we need a very divergent view of the world when we're being creative. And stress is, causes us to be quite the opposite. I mean, you see this, you know, when you're coaching people under stress, you know, they can be in this hamster wheel of going round and round in their own problems, in their own pain, in their own stress related issues without really being able to see the future. And sadly, you know, there is a significant number of people with burnout who end up committing suicide. And I believe that is because they cannot see anything positive in the journey ahead. They can't see their future in any positive way. And that's because of this focusing in that stress causes us. So stress reduces. And now this isn't always true, but in general, stress reduces our creativity, it reduces our ability to make good decisions, and it reduces our ability to see options. And there are exceptions to that. And one of those exceptions can be kind of demonstrated by looking at the Manhattan Project in the Second World War, where a bunch of scientists were put in a very remote area of the desert, built a village around them to get the atom bomb completed. And there's no doubt. And even their public address system around that little village used to broadcast fake information. They that the enemy troops were actually coming up to the east coast of the US and they were deliberately being applying pressure to try and motivate these people to get on with the job. But it's difficult to know whether you were really looking at a change in creativity or whether you were actually focusing the teamwork of innovation. In other words, it's not possible to know whether they were in the creative space or whether. Or the innovative space.
- [11:05]
A
Right, I see what you mean.
- [11:07]
B
So it's a little bit complicated.
- [11:09]
A
No, but on the other hand, there needs to be a certain amount of urgency so that a team collaborate, but not too much, so that they get the narrow. They don't see divergently anymore, but start converging too much. So, yes, you can say that being creative and having an outcome like an innovation, it requires some kind of urgency.
- [11:39]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I think the innovative phase of that absolutely requires the urgency. But in general, most of the creative spark has happened before that point. And for most of the time, that spark is anyway the result of something that's been in your mind for some while. You know, whether you're an artist, a writer, or like myself, an inventor, you know, you often have an idea that's germinating in your mind for days, weeks, months, even years for some people, for some events, and then that becomes the creativity. When you kind of collect those thoughts and you say, okay, this is the thing that I'm going to push ahead, and then you go to the innovative stage. So the sense of urgency in terms of the creativity may not be terribly relevant because you may have already ruminated on that, on the thing that's taking you to the creative stage for some considerable length of time.
- [12:42]
A
Yes. Okay, so you incubate a lot of thoughts, creativity, and maybe the urgency sometimes helps to make it come out maybe.
- [12:54]
B
Absolutely right. Incubation is exactly the process.
- [12:57]
A
Yeah, right. So what conditions must exist in an organization for creativity and innovation to thrive? Because how many leaders says, we want our organization to be innovative and everything? So what would you advise these people to make sure they have it in the organization? The environment that is too.
- [13:20]
B
The environment, yes. Firstly, creativity. If you're going to try and build an organization that is innovative, then that has to be a core value. I've worked with companies that have paid massive amounts of money to find somebody that has been very innovative in the field that they need. And they basically treated it as, okay, this is a creative, innovative person. We're going to put them in a padded room a long way from anybody else so they can't disturb our corporate structure. And then we'll see what happens. And almost inevitably that's a failure because you know that that person doesn't really believe that the organization is supportive of their activity. And sometimes that's very valid. I worked with a company that was quoted on the stock Exchange and after 18 months, this particular person who had been very creative and innovative just had plateaued. I mean, there was nothing coming out of that at all. And he complained to me, he said, you know, I go into a board meeting and if there are seven people around the table, you know, two of them might take me seriously. The other five are just, they might treat me as if I'm sort of a large, expensive plant in the flower bed. And for the stockholders to walk past and say, oh, they got some creative people going on here. So, you know, as a piece of window dressing. And so it's got to be a core value. Also there has to be space for individuality to be shown. I mean, not just by one or two people, but as generally within that organization. So if you have a look at some of the organizations that have really kind of made this a core value. I mean, Google is a well known example. And so if you are in the flow and you want to work through till 2, 3 in the morning on this particular thing, then that's what you do. And then similarly, if you want to have the afternoon off to go and watch the US Open tennis tournament, you can do that too. So in other words, really giving an individual or individuals the capacity to be committed to what they're doing, but also have the work environment being compatible with their lifestyle and what they want to do. And so the important thing here is that, you know, the traditional sort of post second world war corporate structure is not conducive to individuality. You know, we're going to clock in at 8 or 9 or whatever and expect to leave the building by 5 o'. Clock. And it's going to be very structured and you've got two weeks holiday. And you know, and you know that test is not compatible with the notion that individuality can be shared.
- [16:27]
A
So what about now where people work remotely and work from their home and sometimes come to the office. So how is that impacting on the creativity and innovation of a company?
- [16:42]
B
That's a great question and I don't have a concrete answer for it. What I would say is that the ability to work remotely can take a while for somebody to get used to. And sometimes people don't get used to it because one of the things that tends to happen is that they lose contact with people that they would otherwise have been in day to day contact with. And however much they might be using Zoom or other ways of being in contact, it is not the same as one on one human contact. And as you know, something like 70% of the communication between people is non verbal. And you can make up for some of that with Zoom, but you can't make up for all of it. So the problem that I'm seeing with remote work and a number of other factors is that people are getting more and more used to a world where they're not as connected with other people. And you're seeing that in the research. And the difficulty with that is that that's going to be having a negative impact on their overall mental well being. And you're certainly seeing that the instances of burnout, stress and anxiety related disorders is going up quite extensively. And so it's in principle the idea that they could be at home and when they need to go walk the dog, they walk the dog. And when they need to do things in the normal course of their lives, they can, they can be focused on that and then they can focus on work when that is appropriate too. That flexibility in principle should give them the capacity to be more creative. But you've got these other rather powerful factors coming into play as well. Remember when we were talking at the beginning, I was talking about the fact that people who are creative will go off on their own to create and then they'll come back and get with their friends, often other creative people. Because creative people happen to have characteristics that are not necessarily accepted by normal society. You know, one of the characteristics being that they tend to have a loose connection with social norms. And so you don't want to Be, you know, in other words, they don't naturally fit in to the center of the bell curve. But you're missing the ability to actually have one on one contact with people as you would in an office, normal office kind of environment. So there are too many factors coming into play there to be able to say that it's positive for creativity.
- [19:29]
A
Another question is how do you think AI is affecting creativity?
- [19:35]
B
That's a great point. And I've been really focusing on that a lot recently and that's going to actually be the focus of my, my next TEDx talk.
- [19:45]
A
Oh good.
- [19:46]
B
Which is coming out, which is in July in Kentucky. And a couple of studies that first of all, I do tend to sort of work my ideas around science and around data. And there are a couple of studies that suggest that frequent uses of AI show less in the way of critical thinking abilities and also less in the way of creative thinking abilities. And I think it's not entirely surprising because one of the things that as adults, I talked a little bit earlier about creativity. When we're young children, as adults, we make sense of changes in our world in a rather different way than we did when we were two, three or four years old. One of the things we tend to do if we're put into a new situation or we're presented with a challenge is our subconscious will dash off to its memory banks and see if we can find something similar that we've done before to the existing situation. And if we have, we use that as a template, a script that we're going to base our current situation on. And that saves us a phenomenal amount of time. It saves us a lot of energy. If we're thinking as we did when we were young kids, where everything's new, we actually use as much mental energy as we do as if we were going for a stroll. I mean, in terms of calories and so forth, it's an exhausting process. So we dash off, we get these scripts and then we adapt them to the current situation.
- [21:26]
A
Now that is the anxiety scripts, patterns live past lived experiences that we can refer to which makes, are thinking quicker, would you say?
- [21:38]
B
Absolutely. Quicker and less energy consuming. And we do this at all levels. I mean, you know, we're walking, you know, down the aisle of the super of the grocery store, you know, we don't have to sort of think, oh, which, which, which breakfast cereal am I going to get? No, I mean, we automatically say, oh, you know, Judy likes this one, Jeff likes this one and I like this one. You know, that job done we don't have to reanalyze every box of cereal. So, you know, and we do that even if we're sort of moving house, you know, we will use the knowledge we have from friends and from things that we've read and so forth about deciding, you know, where we go so and so forth, you know, so those scripts are used at all levels.
- [22:24]
A
Right? And it saves energy. Saves our energy.
- [22:28]
B
Absolutely it does. But of course it doesn't exercise those creativity neural pathways. When you look at AI, you've got two very real choices. If you've suddenly got this amazing genius companion tucked away in your computer, you can either say, I'm going to give that person as much as I possibly can of my boring day to day work and then I've got plenty of time to go and play more golf, or you know, just generally do something else. The other option is that you say, wow, I've got this genius here, maybe that person can teach me things that I don't already know. And so unfortunately, you know, because our brain is, is in the habit of looking for the most efficient thing to do, we tend to automatically to go to that, minimizing the energy option. And so it is, you know, and you hear people talking about AI and you're reading articles about it, it's all about what can this do to lighten your workload? Very, very seldom does anybody talk about how you can use AI to enhance your creative thinking. So one of the things that I do when I'm talking to people who are aware of this problem, concerned about this problem problem, is to say, you know, when, firstly when AI gives you a solution to a problem, I want you to think of three other solutions that AI didn't come up with. So really use, you know, if you remember, the sort of first stage of traditional brainstorming, you know, any, any idea is, is, however crazy, is legitimate. We, we put that on the sticky note on the post it note and we stick, stick that on the wall. Every, any idea that's a divergent process
- [24:29]
A
which we'll come to later.
- [24:31]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. I mean the challenge is to get from America to Australia in the quickest possible way. One of the ideas we stick on the wall is we dig a very deep hole right the way across the earth and then we slide down it. I mean that's still legitimate at that stage. I mean it's going to get obliterated later on. But every idea. So AI doesn't give you that. AI bases its information on previous knowledge, which is why AI is not Inherently creative. And it also bases it on things that have already been filtered. It's not going to give you any ridiculous ideas. So that's an important part because telling people to come up with three other ideas is doing a number of different things. Firstly, it's reminding them that AI is not the be all and end all of idea generation, that there are things, it is not going to make connections across different things in the same way that you are. And secondly, it's reminding you that you've got in front of you a tool that can be a very powerful one for helping you brainstorm.
- [25:40]
A
Right. So you make a very interesting observation. So creatives process is the divergence, or like you say, the overall picture. And the convergence is narrowing that divergency into something specific. It sounds from what you're saying that AI by steps, the divergent thinking and converges rather rapidly. And if we're a bit lazy, which we all are, because that's efficiency, it will take the solution as the only answer, unless you have prior experience that can test and you can verify what's coming out. But if it sounds pretty good, we'll take it. So your idea of saying, okay, this is AI's idea, but use it as a jump start to think of three more ideas. So I think that's a very good advice.
- [26:41]
B
Thank you. It's a very simple process, but you're doing a number of different things. I mean, when you're trying to get somebody to think, reintroduce creative thinking into their lives, you're really getting them to recreate different neural pathways to the way that they approach problems previously. And it's very easy to get people to do that because they once had those neural pathways when they were very young. So it's a natural experience to them, albeit a long time ago. And you mentioned at one point, you know, how do I talk to people who say they're just not creative? And one of the ways of doing that is I explained to them that they once were creative. So the question is not why are you not creative? It is what has happened to you to suppress the creativity you once had.
- [27:38]
A
Right.
- [27:39]
B
Which is a very different phenomenon. And it generally gets a kind of a thoughtful sort of, oh, right. Kind of reaction. And so, you know, I believe, I don't believe there's anybody that was not at one point creative.
- [27:55]
A
Right, yeah. Otherwise the human species wouldn't even survive. But I come to our. My last question as we're coming to the end of our podcast. What do you mean by spherical thinking?
- [28:07]
B
Spherical thinking? Is really the idea that we can use all of the assets that we have in our brain, use the whole side of the brain. Now when I originally came up with this concept, people were still talking about the left hand side of the brain being deductive and the right hand side being autistic. Well, that's been proved to be a myth with the advent of FMRI imaging where we can see exactly, see how people are thinking. The University of Utah came up with, they proved that this is not the case. That when you're thinking artistically, you're still using the whole brain. When you're thinking deductively, you're also using across the brain but in different pathways. So spherical thinking is really twofold. It's the ability to use both deductive and artistic or creative thinking neural pathways as you need to. And the analogy I use here, I'm a jazz flute player and my analogy here is jazz. You know, when you're sort of starting a melody and you're playing with the other members of your group and you need to be structured, you need to be playing in time and in tune and so on and so forth. And that's really your sort of deductive analytical process. And then comes the magic moment when you're going to improvise. And that's the part where you're displaying your individuality and you can disappear off into variations of, you know, of course there are some. There's still a little bit of a structure you need to in order to get people to actually listen to it rather than leave the room. But you know, that's your kind of. So you can switch between these two modes. And being able to do that liberally as you need to is I think, the powerful way to make great decisions. Creativity also correlates with happiness. So the people that are thinking creatively have a higher chance of being happy than those that aren't. And these pathways relate to emotional intelligence. They are the same pathways that people use when they're thinking. When you tell somebody to think about something in an emotionally intelligent way. So it's a very powerful combination. We all need the analytical bit, but I believe we should all for our well being, also have that creativity part.
- [30:37]
A
Thank you so much for your sharing your wisdom and experience. Extensive wisdom. So thank you very much. And where can people get a hold of you?
- [30:48]
B
The easiest way really is through my website, which is planforchange.org and that's P L A N the number4change.org and from that site you can go to my speaker site. But you can also just press the button and book a call with me. I'm very happy to talk to people, you know, if you think maybe you're dealing with stress or you're dealing with burnout or you know somebody is who is, or you want to just discuss the idea of introducing innovation into your life or into your business. Very, very happy to talk to people on that basis. So that's the easy way to get in touch with me.
- [31:26]
A
Thank you so much, Andre. Thank you very much.
- [31:29]
B
Thank you very much, Katrina. It's been a wonderful conversation. Thank you for listening to the Excellent Executive Coaching Podcast. You can subscribe to all Future podcasts@excellent executive coaching.com join us each Wednesday to learn more about the latest trends in leadership techniques and bring your coaching to the next level. To learn more about Dr. Burris CEO mastermind, use the contact form@excellentexecutivecoaching.com.