A (8:10)

And now a word from our partners.

B (8:15)

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A (10:33)

All right, onto the episode.

B (10:39)

I am so excited to dive in. Today we have on Cynthia. Cynthia is our amazing content creator extraordinaire projector. I don't know your astrology. What is your astrology?

A (10:51)

I'm a cancer sun, Aquarius moon and Virgo rising.

B (10:55)

Okay, this makes so much sense. That is why there is so much heart in all the content that we put out there. That makes a lot of of sense. You had shared a reel during the what was it? She doesn't know it yet trend on your personal page about your story of manifesting shifting careers, going from Corporate into really just, like, living your aligned creative passions with different clients and all of those things. And I was like, wait a second. We need to have you on the podcast. Because I think so many people are in jobs or positions or places with their life, and they feel that pressure of being seen stuck. They feel like, oh, I mean, it's good for now or the other, like, limiting belief. I always see is people are in certain situations, and they're like, well, the economy's really bad, so it's now really a time to take that kind of a risk. And one year later, your whole life was completely transformed.

A (11:51)

Right? So wild, so crazy. Yeah, it still stuns me every time, because if I were to tell you, like, a year ago, this would not be the life that I'm living right now, but it's only when I, like, allowed myself to do that and try and just follow my heart, follow my truth, then this whole world opened up. So it's really beautiful, and I'm excited to talk about it.

B (12:13)

So give us a little background. What is your cultural background and upbringing?

A (12:19)

So I grew up in Taiwan for the majority of my life. Both of my parents are educators, so my dad is a college professor, so he gets to take sabbatical years every few years just to exchange with, like, an American university. And so when I was in second grade and eighth grade, our whole family moved to wherever he was going. So I spent a year in Boston and a year in Virginia. So, yeah, when I was in second grade, that's pretty much when I learned English. I remember going to school in second grade in Boston not knowing a lick of English, and actually remember very vividly having to mime in class, just being like, this is what I want. I'm hungry. I want to do this. But somehow just learned English along the way, and that really set the foundation of my English understanding. And then I went back to the Taiwanese school system right after that, which I think that was really, like, the origin story of not really having this clear identity. Because when I was in Taiwan, I was too American to be full Taiwanese. But when I was here, obviously I was the Taiwanese girl. So going back and forth a lot in my formative years was really tough. Where I'm like, who am I? Where do I really belong? So, yeah, that was kind of like the majority of my childhood. After I did my eighth grade in Virginia, I went back to Taiwan and did an international school for high school. So pretty much it was like the American school system. But you do school there in Taiwan, and everyone is expected to basically go to school overseas after that.

B (13:52)

Wow. And so then college, you finally moved to the States? Yeah. What was that like? Did your parents, Are they still in Taiwan?

A (14:02)

My entire family is in Taiwan, yeah. Wow.

B (14:04)

Oh my gosh.

A (14:05)

Yeah, I think it was to be expected. I think when you sign up for an American school in Taiwan, the idea is that you're basically going to live there and you have to be a citizen obviously to attend that school. My parents had me when they were in grad school here in the States and so I, I was born here. So, yeah, basically when I had finished high school, it was just me, along with all of my friends, we just all came here. So it was not too jarring of an experience. Like, I had peers who had very similar backgrounds and going to school in California, I went to UC San Diego. So there's a lot of people with this kind of like intercultural background where you've moved in different places. So it wasn't too, too bad of a transition.

B (14:48)

Do you feel like, because you had that built in community, like, do you still keep touch with all of those people that came over a similar time?

A (14:56)

Yeah, those are probably. Actually most of my friends have this background which feels very safe and it's definitely helpful, I think compared to, you know, when I was like the only Asian kid in school in Virginia, where I was like very much the other versus here, I'm like, oh, I feel like I fit in. I have people who understand my experience and can share that. This cross cultural experience.

B (15:17)

Yeah, that's so huge. Do you feel like amongst your friend groups you're able to like keep any traditions or things alive within your community?

A (15:27)

Yeah, definitely. I think it actually helps a lot because sometimes I think we speak kind of like Chinglish, so you kind of get both languages. And you know, when we have like Chinese New Year, we're all here, we can spend time together and so there's definitely that sense of community here. I also met my husband who was born and raised here in la, but I met him in Taiwan, actually. And then we found out in Taiwan that we both went to UC San Diego. So it was also nice that we had that connection where his mom lives in Taiwan. So basically the people I have very close to me, around me are all. All have similar backgrounds, which keeps me really grounded.

B (16:05)

Yeah, that's so cool. That's huge. What would be one piece of advice if someone out there is in that in between space where they're moving from their country of origin to a new country and maybe they don't necessarily have that support system, or they're just like, kind of scared of what is this going to be like? What would you say for them?

A (16:23)

I mean, I think partially it's really looking at the new experience with really a welcoming lens. I think there's so much that you can learn and observe and see when you are thrown into a new environment. I think it helps that I've been experiencing that from a very early age. So I think to kind of embrace that with more open arms versus feeling like, oh, I am not at home. I'm not comfortable. I think having a little bit of an open, open mind is helpful. But I also think finding your community, whether it's people who they don't have to be from the same place you came from, but there's so many people that I feel like have moved around in different places, have roots in other places. And I remember even making friends with people who had moved from, like, Europe and, you know, different places where we all just share that sense of home means different things to us. And I think even connecting with people like that just really helps make you feel more sane, that you're not so alone in this process.

B (17:23)

I love that idea of openness, too, because I even think about how much change in general people are going to go through this year and are already starting to go through, and how cultivating that mindset of like, okay, just because this is different doesn't mean it's wrong. Just because this feels uncomfortable and new doesn't mean it's bad. How can you be like, okay, yes, I do miss these comforts that I used to have and lean on and be connected to, but can I create new comforts? Can I create a new story? Can I create a new experience? Just cultivating that mindset helps so much through change. I was someone as a kid who was like, I like certainty. I don't like change. That is terrifying. It is a muscle that now I'm like, I great. Change is amazing. Like, it doesn't rattle me. I'm so excited. I see what can happen on the other side of it. But I also remember as a child being like, whoa. I do not. I don't mess with change.

A (18:20)

Yeah, it can be super jarring when you're young, especially when the world you have is so small. But I think it's every experience that you have with change. It can be so expansive. And that was really what it was for me. I think from an early age of seeing what else is out there, seeing how different people can be or places can be. And feeling like I can take a little bit of everything and make it my own. In a way, it's definitely given me a very expansive worldview of, like, you never know what could be out there. And so you have a much more open heart when it comes to new experiences and new things versus feeling really stuck in wherever you're at.

B (18:56)

Okay, so paint the picture for me. Where were you at? I guess it's a little more than a year ago, but where were you at in your career? How were you feeling? What were you doing? Just paint that sort of before feeling. And how did you know you wanted to make a change?

A (19:12)

Actually, kind of just to backtrack a little bit. I think in terms of cultural upbringing, it's important to note too. I think in the Taiwanese culture, there's a very deep ingrained value of just fitting in and not standing out. Like, in the Taiwanese school system, you wear uniforms all throughout from, like, K through 12. So individualism and, like, standing out from the crowd is not really a value that's encouraged. So I think from a very early age, I was understanding that, okay, to just fit in and to be a good worker, be a hard worker, be someone that brings something to the table but not ask for credit. That was the way to go, and that was the way to play it safe. But I think something that's worth also noting is that my parents, even though both of them are educators in the Taiwanese education system, they really ingrained this idea in me that effort is everything. So if you try, say, if I tried really hard to study and I failed the test, they would not care. But if I just didn't try, I didn't put in that time, they wouldn't actually get upset with me. So I think for me, especially also being a projector who's very, like, observant, I like to see what people are doing. I like to see where I can fit in and support other people. I think that all tied together for me where I'm like, I just need to focus on the process, enjoy the process, not care so much about the outcome, and really just be present and bring what I can to the table and learn. So I think that really applied in my early years of working. Within the first, like, four or five years of working, I was always. I never negotiated. I took whatever job offer was given to me. And especially when you, like, freshly out of college and you're just learning and you're thrown into, like, work settings where you're just such a sponge and learning everything, it was really Exciting for me just to be in spaces where, you know, I was of service, I could help out. I was a assistant to someone. I could, you know, just like, help in any way. And I was learning and absorbing so much. But because I am a projector, I feel like that makes me a little bit more passive in the workspaces where I'm not the one to be like, look at me. Like, these are all the things I've been doing. It's more like I need to be invited to kind of share my insights. So I think early on in my career, I saw a lot of peers that moved up a lot quicker because they were more vocal about. These are all the things I've done. Even though I was the one saying, like, coming in early, doing more work, I didn't know how to call attention to it, so.

B (21:41)

Especially in a way that feels aligned.

A (21:43)

Yeah.

B (21:43)

I feel like so many people have been there where they're like, I know I've. I've definitely been there, at least where it's like, you're working so hard and you just want people. You think that just working hard will get you notice or will get you the raise or will get you the thing. And it's like, I had to realize that people are so busy, they're not even noticing what you're doing. You know what I mean? I remember at this one production company, early on, I was, like, grinding, taking care of everything. I was like, I'm so good at this. Look at all I'm doing. I'm like, the boss didn't see any of this. He has no idea what's going on. Like, I'm just taking care of all of this behind the scenes. And it wasn't actually until a male coworker told me, like, you need to share that you're doing this. You need to be like, hey, these are things I took care of this week. Here's a inventory report, blah, blah. Here are the links to all this, or whatever, I don't know. But different things. But that piece, I think especially for women, it's so hard to not want to have your ego out. And it feels icky if it comes from a weird place, it feels showboaty. If that's not your natural way of communicating it, I think that that's a huge one for people.

A (22:51)

Totally. Yeah. It is very difficult, especially for a young woman, like, just starting out in their career. It's so hard. We don't really know. I think no one ever taught us, like, this is how you can call attention to the things that you've been doing without it coming a certain way. So it's very hard to fight through that. But, yeah, I think early on, because of that, I was very focused on the work, and I just. I wanted to grow, I wanted to learn, and I thrived off of that a lot. So it did help me grow very fast in terms of my skill sets. So by the time I had worked for four or five years, I felt like I had done not just whatever was my department, which back then was social media. I was doing email marketing, I was doing paid social. I was doing things that were way out of my scope because I just. I got the opportunity to, like, if someone was handing it to. To me, I was happy to do it. But there was that resentment building of, like, but no one's seeing it and no one's recognizing it. And I wasn't getting that acknowledgement. So I had left basically my job at the time to just really figure out, okay, what is going on here? Like, this is a pattern that's been repeating for four or five years now. What do I actually want? So I was pretty much unemployed for three months, job hunting, finding the right thing. And I was actually at the cusp of accepting an offer that was all the way on the other side of the city. I'm in east la and this is in Century City. So I would have had to move like that.

B (24:15)

Yeah, I was like, that is a commute.

A (24:18)

Yes. Like, I was about. Because I was getting a little bit desperate, and I had been interviewing and just nothing aligned was coming through that. I was like, you know what? Maybe it's not for me. Like, maybe this is just a wild dream that I could find something that made sense for me and an environment where I know I could be seen.

B (24:34)

What was on your list?

A (24:36)

I honestly, I've always been such a vague Manchester. Like, I always call out for feelings. So I very specifically, I think I spoke it into existence. I was just saying it out loud that I want a job where I could be seen not just for what I did or how much I did, but the way that I did it. So that was kind of the one ask I put out there into the universe. And literally right before I was about to accept this job, we had just moved into a house and I was about to, like, move, get an apartment out on the west side just to accept this job. The job that changed everything for me popped up out of nowhere. It was 10 minutes from my house, which was unheard of. Like, so random. There are no jobs Here in East LA in media and marketing. So it popped up and I had just applied for it randomly. It was one of those one click job applications. I was like, sure. And I basically got a call the same day, got on a phone call, and then I had met the team by that afternoon because it was right next to my house and I got an offer that same night.

B (25:39)

Wow.

A (25:39)

So it was very fast tracked. Yeah. But when I went in to meet the team and kind of just see the environment, it was one of those things where it was like a full body. Yes. Where I saw the people who were working there, it was very diverse. The founders were Asian, so there was that sense of like, oh, okay. I feel like, you know, it's people who understand me. And then it was a very creative environment. Like I could feel the creativity as I walked in. There were studios, there were kind of. It was a paid social advertising agency. So there was like people constantly filming and creating things. So the energy was just very vibrant and creative. So when I went in, I had the conversation with them. I just, I was like, I think this is my dream job. So I accepted it quickly. I didn't even negotiate, which my husband was like, why don't you negotiate? This is the chance. But it just, it was never part of me to do all that. I just was like, okay, this is it. And I took the job.

B (26:35)

So what was the thing that got you to quit the job prior? The one where you weren't feeling seen, that you were in that loop for four or five years? What was the impetus? What was the driving force? You knew you needed to leave, but like, why now? And how did you feel comfortable leaving? Like, did you have an FU fund saved up? What was your mindset around that? Because I think people are so afraid. It's actually very ingrained in the culture to not leave a job before you have another lined up. And for so many people, like when the awareness comes to the forefront that this is not the place for them and they feel stuck. They're kind of between a rock and a hard place because they might not have something lined up and they know staying in the environment they're in is going to be so soul sucking and not really get them in the space they want to be in to call in that next bigger thing. So what did that process look like for you?

A (27:32)

Yeah, honestly, for every one of my jobs when I left, it was always, I, I had always quit first because it, I always pushed myself to the point where it was like my soul was like, you cannot be Here for another day. You just have to leave and clear space and recenter to figure out what you want next. Obviously, I think always having some savings in mind is helpful for that buffer. But I think when I was earlier in my career, it was easier for me to focus on, okay, if I really needed to jump into something else. Going into another job that maybe is not fully aligned is not. It's not like a life sentence where it's like, okay, if I joined and I can try it out, and if I really didn't like it, I can still leave. Like, it's not so serious. And so I always felt like I could just give myself that opportunity. I think it was always more important to me and my sanity to just get rid of whatever was occupying a lot of space in my life and come back to center and be like, okay, what was the thing that I really didn't like from this job or that made me want to leave and how can I find it in the next thing? You know, I was kind of jumping between industries. I was doing social media for hospitality, then fashion than beauty. And so after experiencing different verticals, I always had a very clear idea of, okay, I want to try this next, I want to try that next. So for me, obviously, always having a sense of, like, I needed some sort of buffer financially, but knowing that if I had a clear idea of what I wanted to do next, I think I can always find it and it doesn't have to be the perfect thing. So that was kind of how I approached it. But I think the common thread amongst every single job when I left was working myself to the bone and not feeling appreciated or having a conversation with my manager or my boss and them saying, oh, I didn't even realize you were doing that much. And for someone like me, where I'm, like, working so hard in silence, like, that was such a blow. So those are the things that led me to eventually quit every single job and, like, just refocus on what I want next.

B (29:32)

What do we think the inner child narrative or, like, that limiting belief narrative is if that pattern's playing out. Have you, like, gone in to see, like, okay, what is that thing that I might subconsciously be believing about myself that I keep attracting these experiences where these people just can't see me? What do you feel like that resonates to or connects to?

A (29:57)

Yeah, that's a really interesting perspective. I think a limiting belief definitely is. There's a sense of. Especially with the cultural background and move. I've always felt like I was. I Didn't belong here. And so, you know, I would try really hard. So everyone's like, maybe people's 50%, I would have to be 100% to be at other people's 50. I didn't feel like I could draw any attention to me or say I was doing anything because it just didn't feel like it was good enough anyway. And so I think I also definitely enabled a lot of behavior. If people were checking in on me, I'd be like, oh, no, it's easy. I didn't work that hard on it. Like, I was pushing it down. So in the opportunities were, maybe I was prompted to share what I was doing or any challenges I had. I would always kind of push it down and be like, oh, no, it was fine. It was easy. I got it done. It wasn't like a big deal, even though I was really like busting Haz off here. So there's definitely a very deep seated feeling of I'm not good enough and I need to work three times harder than everyone else to prove my value and to prove that I deserve more. But because there was a pattern of not getting that recognition or repeatedly feeling like, oh, but I didn't even realize you were doing that much, or like, you're not that irreplaceable, I think that was the feeling I got. So in a way, I was almost believing it. Like, maybe it's true if this has happened for a couple times. So I need to work even harder to prove that.

B (31:28)

Okay. I think this is so fascinating for people to just see that pattern play out. You can see how that can become a self fulfilling prophecy. And if you would have said, yeah, this took me all week to work on, I'm so proud of it, then people are gonna be like, whoa, she really put her heart and soul into this. You know, you're gonna get a different reaction out if you are letting people know when you're hitting challenging spots or setting boundaries. Like, hey, I'm only clocked to work 40 hours a week. Last week was at 60. What do you need me to delegate and detox off my plate? Because this is not part of my scope. I think that is so hard for people to say because they don't want to be difficult, they don't want to be challenging, they don't want to lose their job. They're like, I'll just be the yes person. And I think, I hope that we are moving into a culture and a society and a collective era where we can actually rise up as the individual and really attune to what we really need and how we need to be successful, supported and be able to vocalize that. And even if the companies and systems at the top currently don't reflect environments in which that might be safe to say, the more the people do it, the more the companies are going to have to change or people are going to just become their own boss, you know, they're going to become their own entrepreneur, their own freelancer or small business or whatever. But like, that is just my hope. Hope and vision is that like the power starts with the individual. Like you have to really know yourself and take your power back. And if you set your boundaries and say that and the company does not respond well, guess what? That is not a company you want.

A (33:12)

To be a part of a hundred percent. And I think the good thing is that, you know, at my last job I worked with a lot of Gen Z kids fresh out of college and they had great boundaries. They were like, oh, this is out of my scope. I'm not doing that. I'm like, what do you know about scope? Like, I had no idea what a scope was when I was 22, but it was great because I'm like, oh, you guys really understand. And I think because of social media, there's a lot of rhetoric and discourse around what it means to kind of like do a good job at your work versus being taken advantage of. I think it's such a fine line too, because I look back and I think if I hadn't put myself out there and said yes to certain things, I might not have the skills I would have today. But there's also a fine line of what is something that you're willing to spend a proper time learning versus way overworking just to prove something. So it's definitely like a lifelong journey. I think of like where that line.

B (34:05)

Is for you that I think is the key. There is. It is one thing if you are putting in more effort and time without the exchange because you are doing it intentionally to learn a skill set or to master a skill set or excel at a skill set. If you are starting out and you're like, like, gosh, I know nothing about social media, but sorry, I'm gonna clock out super early and you still don't know your area of expertise, then I would say take a look at what do I need to still learn here to just feel really confident in your skillset that is such a superpower. But once you have that, once you know that, once you're like, I can do this in my Sleep. Then you have to monitor of, like, okay, where is my time being taken advantage of? Where am I not respecting my own time?

A (34:53)

Yeah, 100%. And I think it's easy to slip into the. Just because I know it doesn't mean I should do it. Like, just because I have this skill set. I think that's where I stepped into a lot of these dangerous waters in the past, where, because I was the person who knew how to do this, and they didn't have a person who, say, did email marketing. And I had experience with using the platform, so I would somehow just say, sure, I'll. I'll just do it. I can take it on. It's no big deal. But it's like, you have to really get intentional with, like, am I doing this because I want to keep expanding in this role or in this direction, or am I doing it for external reasons of wanting them to think I'm valuable or wanting people to think I'm doing a lot Right. So having that check in with yourself is super important.

B (35:35)

I've also noticed, like, leading a team, there'll be certain things where it'll pop up. And my instinct is like, I can do it because I know that I can do it and take care of it super fast. Instead of being like, no, Jess, you look at your laundry list of tasks. You do not have time to do this. Even though you can do it. Trust your team. They can handle it. You're good. That's something that I constantly have to remind myself. You know what it is? Part of it is like, I don't want to burden anyone else. So I'm like, I don't want to give another task to anyone else. I'll just do it. And then I look at my plate and I'm like, oh, no, what did I do?

A (36:13)

Yeah. And I think sometimes it helps, too, because I've been in that position before, too. And it's. You're not only overwhelming yourself, but also I think of it as you're robbing that other person of the experience of trying something and failing and learning. Because I've come into those situations where down the line, I'm asking someone to do something, and they're like, I've never done this before because you've always done it. And I'm like, oh, wait a minute. Well, that's not right. So, yeah, I think it just takes work to kind of figure out, too, where that balance is.

B (36:48)

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A (38:56)

Yeah, so, you know, I got this job and it was very exhilarating, Very much like, oh, this is a big girl job where I was doing big things and I could show people my work. And so I really thrived in that. And because it was a creative startup, there was a lot of room to like stretch and play and experiment. And I think I really thrived in that. And, you know, I did well. And within three months I got like a 30% raise. And then within six months I got another 30% and I was promoted. And basically within the first two years, I was promoted three times and tripled my starting salary.

B (39:32)

Wow.

A (39:32)

And I was leading an entire department as a marketing director. And the title that I got was literally my boss asked me, what title do you want? I'll just give it to you. And I just asked for and that was that. So it felt like a huge up level and a huge manifestation. But it came so hard, so fast and I was still working through all my previous blocks that really never left. I have to be good enough. I have to work so hard to be seen. And the work that I did reflected my value as a person. And so it's very interesting to look back at this experience through the TBM lens, knowing what I know now where it was very much like this up level and this huge manifestation came before I was ready. I was not in a place to hold it. And so I, you know, my nervous system was like constantly in fear of me losing this or being exposed that you're not ready to do this. You're actually not all that right. There was a lot of like self imposed narratives of I was 27 years old and I was making more than my husband who works in tech at that point. So it was very hard. It wasn't like an empowering thing. It was almost like, like, oh crap, I got this. Now I have to hold onto it. Like gripping. Yeah.

B (40:50)

This is such a real thing. With massive up levels, especially coming that fast. There is that nervous system response of like, did I actually look under the hood and see like what got me to my last situation? Like, am I ready to hold? I see this especially with people in new relationships when they like manifest their dream partner. Everything's going amazing and then they say I love you. And then it's like, like all their old stories go and they just come out like crazy, like, this is such a real thing. How did you, how did you handle it? Were you aware that was happening in the time or only reflecting back?

A (41:29)

I think during that time I didn't really realize what I was going through. I didn't have the language for it. That was pre tbm. I. I just knew that I felt so much Imposter syndrome. And I think one of the bigger things too was that because learning and curiosity and growth is so deep within, it's part of my authentic code. And as a director, I felt like I couldn't ask questions. I can't say I don't know when things come up. So I was the person that had to know all the answers for other people. And so I was late night googling everything or if I was on a call with someone, I'd be googling answers and being like, oh yeah, so this is this like as if I just had the knowledge all along. And so I really Just separated from that part of my authenticity, like, right away. So, yeah, it was this very disorienting experience of kind of seeing everything you wanted on paper play out and knowing that something within me felt further and further away from who I actually am. And that was really the beginning of the end of, oh, I'm living like a double life almost.

B (42:38)

I can imagine, too, you probably felt extremely burnt out leading a double life, a for a projector, that's insane. But also leading a double life in the sense of like you are. And this is why when people are out of their authenticity in any space, we did this through the authenticity challenge. When you're out of your authenticity in any space in your life, it is taking a toll. It is taking a toll on your soul, on your energy, on your nervous system. When you show up authentically over time, especially if you feel safe doing it, it feels like ease. It feels like nothing. It's not taxing on the body. It's your natural state, your natural way of being, your natural joy. And that's actually going to give you energy. But when you show up inauthentic or masking yourself to be what you think other people want of you or to meet other people's expectations, it's like pulling at your energy to do mental gymnastics, to figure out, okay, what do they want? And, oh, I have to say it this way. Don't say it like this and do it like this. You know, there's all this shape shift, shifting, and that's so taxing on the body because it feels like walking a tightrope. I'm only allowed to show up here like this. And if I show any other part of me, then I'm off the rope and you're in that constant fight or flight or even free state, you know, or fawn, that is like pumping cortisol and stress and all the things that leads to that burnout.

A (44:01)

A hundred percent. And I did that for two more years after I got that title bump, like two and a half maybe. So it was a complete detachment from my authentic self. I had no idea who I was, honestly, anymore. I was so focused on performing. So I felt like my entire life. And, you know, I was working like 10 hours a day. And then when I came home, I was still on my computer. My entire existence was this work self. But then there were so many things that I was unhappy with in terms of how the company did things or maybe things I didn't align with me. The way that we were managing people or the way we were treating Clients, right? So I ignored all the red flags along the. There were a lot of things that led up to this point, Right. I think at a certain point, your body will just tell you, this is enough. Like, you should. Yeah, you can't do it anymore. But it took me a long time, I think, because of how good everything looked on the outside, that that really extended this Runway of pretending and performing. I think especially having Asian parents who, you know, live across in a different country, when they ask about how life is, that's what I felt like, was safe. To tell them is like, things are good. I'm getting paid well. I have a great title, My job is stable. Right? Like, if I was telling them about all the bits and pieces that were happening that was making me unhappy, I don't think. I think they would be very worried, first of all. But it was just something that I was catering to them also to be like, it's fine. I've made it, quote, unquote, so don't worry. But, yeah, I think eventually, I mean, it took having a really supportive partner for my husband to be like, I don't think you're you anymore. Like, you are so unhappy. You are not yourself anymore. And it was consuming my life in such a negative way, where it was all I talked about with my coworkers, it was all I talked about with my friends. It was all I talked about with my husband. And any time I had away from work was just recovering for work again. So it's interesting also to think about how, okay, you're making all this money. I wasn't spending any of this money, right? I was buying things for cheap dopamine hits so I could feel better. Like, I have money. I'm spending it. But I wasn't taking meaningful, intentional breaks. I wasn't taking any vacation. It was just one of those things where you had to really look at yourself, like, what is this all for? And I think the question that I was really scared to ask myself was, if you had gotten everything you wanted, or so you think, and you're still not happy, then what will make you happy? And I think that was a really scary question to ask myself. And I had just turned 30, and I was like, oh, I can't restart my life at 30. This is supposed to be the time I was gonna make it, right? So, yeah, it was kind of just like, all coming to that point. And obviously, it's worth mentioning too, that TBM was introduced to me, like, a year prior to me starting to having all these thoughts and TBM was a huge reason why I had the language to understand what was going on in my life.

B (47:00)

Yeah.

A (47:00)

And, yeah, really being able to understand, okay, these are tests and what. What it means to clear space, what it means to practice my trust muscle and having trust in the process and all these things. So it really gave me that vocabulary to make sense of all the chaos that was going on in my life at the time.

B (47:19)

It's so interesting because I've watched friends go through different versions of this. And from the outside looking in, you're like, oh, clearly that job or that partner or that. That thing is the thing that you need to clear space of. But when you're in the midst of it, it's almost the concept of, like the golden handcuffs. It's like. But it has all these things at that moment you feel you. You can't give up. Like, even though, you know, like, yeah, I could probably give it up. But then there's another part of you that's like, you can't give this up. You know, whether it's the title, whether it's the salary, whether it's the health benefits, whether it's the security, whether it's the. The, you know, the excuses you tell yourself of, like, I'm 30 or I'm 40 or I'm 50, like, how could I change jobs now? You know, or how could I make a new life decision? Or whatever. That is where you're giving your power away. That is where you're putting that thing on the pedestal. It's really creating your own glass ceiling. It's saying that I am choosing and believing that I'm not going to get any better than this. And so I might as well settle for this thing that. That just isn't really the thing that's fully lighting up my soul. Because I just. I don't see a way possible to have anything better than this. And that's why I love the TBM work for this. Because the second you say, I don't think it's possible to get better than this and you're not happy, I'm like, okay, you need expanders asap just to show your subconscious it's possible. But then it's like, let's start peeling back the safety, the false sense of safety you think you're getting from the thing and root it back to self and then be like, wait, I'm my source of safety. I'm the power. I'm the. The magnetism. I'm the thing, so I can take that energy anywhere. It doesn't matter where that goes, that's within me. It's not, oh, I'm only at this title, or I'm only worthy of this type of responsibility. In this one company, the energy is you. So how did you. Yeah, like, how. What was that transition? Like, how long of a Runway did you feel like you had or planned for yourself? Did you have another chapter where you were like, let me figure out what I want to do and what that happiness looks like?

A (49:35)

I think turning 30 was a big catalyst because I was like, okay, I. I also tell friends this when they say, like, 30s are really your best years. I really felt that because I felt like something unlocked in my brain where I was actually able to things differently. And for me, it was really realizing that, okay, if I continue to stay here, I am just saying no to myself every single day. Like, what? You're not changing, you're choosing. And speaking of the TBM work, it's like, I. There were so many tests actually, before I actually was about to quit. There were so many times where I had brought up, okay, maybe this is not the place anymore, and talk to my boss about it. And there were so many different tests thrown at me. Where will pay you more if you just stay through another season or another quarter or take on 10 more clients and it's like, significantly more money or, yeah, okay, you can work however you want. You can work remotely, you can build your own team, but I'm going to cut you out of all leadership conversations. So basically, I'm going to demote you in the everyday stuff, like, things like that where, like, what is going on and, you know, for someone who is so involved, cares so much about my team, my work, even just having that potentially taken away from me, I was like, oh, maybe I should just play it safe and just, like, status quo. Stick to this. But ultimately, it was one of those things where I had to just do it. And I said, I cannot do this any longer. I needed to clear space. And it was literally, I think it was just like my gut screaming at me, like, this is this big black cloud that's occupying your head, your heart, everything. And I had a very visual experience where I saw that, okay, I just need to push this aside and get it out of my life, and then something greater will be on the other side. I just knew it. And I don't know if it's because it was doing the TVM work. And at the time, I was listening to the podcast every week, and it was one of those things where literally every single week, the Podcast that came out would be exactly what I was experiencing.

B (51:35)

I love that.

A (51:37)

Sounds like the answer is so cool.

B (51:39)

I'm like, the. You guys are manifesting the episodes. Like, we get pings for ideas for episodes, but I think those pings secretly come from you guys. Like, I think you guys are, like, sending us signals in the ethers and it's just dropping in.

A (51:53)

Totally. I actually, yeah, I think I still remember one of the episodes that came out that week was how to navigate big transitions in your life. And I was like, perfect. This is my sign. And I actually had given my notice pretty much that same week after listening to the episode, and I was like, it makes sense. Months. And I had to do it also on my own terms. And I think that was also an aligned action that I took in terms of honoring myself. Like, I care so much about setting my team up for success, knowing that when I leave, it would actually leave a pretty significant gap for whoever was taking over. So I gave, I believe it was six months notice.

B (52:29)

Wow.

A (52:30)

Yeah. Which, you know, everyone around me was like, you're doing too much. You don't have to do that. But. But it felt true to me where I was training the people I knew that I didn't want to leave anyone, just, like, with all this work, knowing they would not be supported. And at the end of the day, I think I was glad that I did that. I also was able to take my honeymoon during that time. So it was a good transition. It was a slow transition out, and I think that gave me a little bit of a Runway of, like, okay, when I quit with nothing lined up, what am I going to do? And I think the pain that kept coming through was, there's nothing to do. You need to reset your nervous system. Like, that's first and foremost. Like, there's nothing else to do. And I think for the first time in my career, I really felt like I had no idea what to do next, because I always had an idea of, maybe I want to do this industry or that industry or try this. But it came to a point where I kind of did everything already. So I just have lost that sense of curiosity almost. And I was like, okay, the only answer for me right now is to just. Just clear space, focus on that, and reset. And so that's kind of what I did. Like, when I quit, you know, a part of me also was thinking, my life will be so much better when I quit. My life will be magically fixed. And of course it didn't. I fell very quickly into kind of Just like my nervous system being shot again, where I wasn't doing anything. So I was anxious all the time. And that's when the gis came in really handy, where I was really going down and seeing, okay, it was because my value as a person has been tied 100% to my output as a person or my productivity. And so once I understood that, I realized, okay, this is what we need to unblock first and foremost. And I think it's so important to know that when you've been living inauthentically for so long, living an authentic life will feel performative at first. And I really, I had to practice joy as a muscle. It seems so silly because I was like, I wrote down, okay, I'm gonna do this fun thing for today. And I would, for example, I would, you know, do an art thing or go on a walk and I would hate it. I would be like, I'm so anxious, I'm not enjoying it. But the more you do it, the more it actually starts to feel aligned and you actually feel safe in doing it. So there's actually so much practice in making your nervous system feel safe again, in what feels true to you, especially when you're coming out of something that you've been on the line for so long.

B (55:12)

You've heard us talk about our pathway membership, but what actually is it? It is an all access membership where you can get every single workshop that we've ever created. All of our deep imaginings, which are our reprogramming audios to help you manifest. You can access it on the desktop or in the TBM app on your phone directly. We of course have foundational workshops such as our how to Manifest workshop, which takes you step by step through this neural manifestation process to actually unblock, expand and take align action to connect with their manifestations. Our how to Be Magnetic workshop, our inner Child and shadow workshops. And then of course we have a workshop. If you are in a rut, if you're in a rock bottom, if you're in up level, perhaps you need to set boundaries. Maybe you want to focus specifically on the block of money or love. It is all in there. And then twice a year, as a community, we gather for our challenges. Our challenges are. Challenges are one of the most effective parts of the process because you get accountability. It is really a handheld experience in how to work through whatever the theme of that year's challenge is. And now to my absolute favorite part of our membership, which I think in and of itself would be worth the entire weight of the membership if we just had this alone. Our Deep Imagining library. This Library encompasses over 60 neural reprogramming audio tracks, their self hypnosis track tracks that will really support you in any step of this journey. If you're needing calming nervous system regulation, unblocking with a specific test or trigger, going through a difficult time processing a big emotion, or maybe you just want reinforcing how to reinforce those neural pathways of confidence, abundance, self worth, deservingness and connection with your dream life. And not only that, if you go to the app we just launched Deep Imagining playlist where we're grouping different themes of DI's together. So no matter what you're going through, you have something for you. And we're constantly dropping new playlists as well as brand new Deep Imaginings. And if you need more support in your process, you can go to our brand new video series, Channelings with Lacy, where she touches on the exact energetics that are going on right now in manifestation and how it may apply to your life. So obviously I am a huge fan of this membership. The peace of mind I get from being able to have all the tools I need at my disposal. No matter where I'm at with my life, if shit's hitting the fan, if I'm feeling disregulated, if I'm needing to come back to my center, if I'm needing to to brainstorm or daydream or connect with what my vision for my future is, every single tool is in there to support me. And don't just take my word for it. We have thousands of testimonials of people who have had incredible success stories with these tools. So take the guesswork out of your manifestation process and get real tools that are going to give you real results. And we have our big summer sale going on right now where you can get the the absolute lowest prices of the season, $22 a month and over 25% off discount for the membership for the entire year. So if you've been thinking about joining the pathway, if you are sparking an interest in our Money Challenge, which is going on right now, which will help take you to your next level of abundance in just three weeks, now is the time to join with our sale. It will only be available for a limited time, but the Money Challenge will be available off all summer. I mean, it makes so much sense if you think that your value, your worth is tied to your output and then you halt all output and you're like, I'm gonna go in nature because that's what you're authentically Craving. But I like to think of our blocks as like parts of us, parts of our psyche. They have their own little Personas, they show up in their own little ways. If you do internal family systems, you know exactly what I'm talking about. But that part of you that picked up, hey, for protection, this is how you survive in this world. Your output equals your worth. It's not your truth, but it's a protector part that you picked up. That protector part is going to be going nuts when you're chilling out because it's gonna be like, what are you doing? We're not safe like this. Like what's happening. And what you're talking about is allowing your body to basically regulate that protector part. To like say, hey, I see you're anxious. We're just gonna test this out. Oh, look, we actually were safe. We took a walk. Nothing happened. The sky didn't fall. We're not any less worthy. Our value didn't decline. We just went for a walk, that's all. And then you do it again and again and again. It's building that muscle and it's really calming down that protector part to just say like, okay, we're not gonna flood the body with anxiety anytime that we're not doing what you think this is. Because it's almost like you have to have compassion for those parts because you understand why they're there, but they're also the things that are literally in your way.

A (60:13)

Yes, a hundred percent. And I think, I think, you know, the worst case scenario, Di, was huge for this, where I'm like, let's get to the bottom of it. And when I really got to the bottom of it, I'm like, I can't be doing nothing or enjoying my day because I might look at myself in 10 years and be like, I am still unemployed. I'm like, whoa, that is crazy. How do we get there? Right? It's just about kind of practicing living your authentic truth in whatever form, big or small, on a daily basis. And then that change will actually come and your reality will start to shift. And it really just takes that aligned action, right? If I say I want a life of enjoyment again and ease and all these things, I have to live it. I can't just say I'm gonna wait to do all these things when I feel useful again. And I think the fact that I, when I left my job, I realized I didn't have any hobbies as like a 30 year old woman. My only hobbies were doing things to recover from the long week that I had, it was like doom scrolling watching shows on Netflix. Like I had no true hobbies. And again, like when I quit, it wasn't like I wanted to quit to become a freelancer and doing creative work, right? It was literally came from a place of me recognizing I don't have any hobbies, I don't know what I like to do for fun. And so I'm gonna do everything. And so some days I read and I'm like, okay, I didn't really enjoy that. Let me read another book book or let me go on a walk or let me do a picnic just for fun. And that was really the beginnings of me starting this next path where I, you know, obviously when I, when you quit and you have all this time on your hands, you start to miss that kind of human connection a little bit, especially when all your friends are working. So as a way to feel joy and connection again, I intentionally, I was like, I'm going to host a wine night with my girlfriends and I just bought some wine. I really put effort into it, like setting things up nicely, got some snacks, like decorated the place days, and I just filmed it because it's just for memories. And then I posted it and tagged the brand and literally the brand the next day was like, oh my God, no one's ever created content for us like this before. Like, do you do this professionally? Like, what are your rates? And it just completely opened up the store of like, oh, the things that I actually love doing can actually be something that can bring something back to me. But it was all done without expectations, right? It was all because I was doing something out of, of pure joy and doing things with no expectations but for myself and for my own happiness. And that was kind of that initial breadcrumb of like, oh, the more I was doing things that aligned with me and sharing about it authentically, the more that somehow I got eyeballs on me and things were being magnetized towards me. So that was what started this freelancing career.

B (62:56)

I mean, it's so wild to because to think, think it could be as easy or as hard as literally dedicating your time to following your joys throughout the day instead of having to put effort in the way that we traditionally think. Like, if someone's unemployed, they think, okay, I have to be applying on LinkedIn every day. I have to be doing this, I have to be networking, blah, blah, okay, well what if you followed just even for a day or a week or a couple weeks, however long you can allot yourself that feels good for you, you total freedom to follow your passions, to follow your joys. Not all your pings are gonna make you feel amazing, but some of them are gonna unlock things. And the more that you do them, the more things align directly to you. I've seen this happen time and time and time and time and time again. And even in that space of doing your joy, like following your joy, maybe it's not that book that's gonna bleed to something else, but maybe that book made you think about something else. And then you're like, I really want to do this. You never know the trickle down effect, but you have to create spaciousness to allow the clarity to drop in, to feel safe in rest. In rest is really where you get the most pings. You know, when your nervous system is so calm, you can just receive the truth. And those types of pings just feel so much more, more grounded than any other time you get pings. They just feel so rooted in authenticity. But you have to create the space for it. And I mean, when this airs, we'll be in the middle of our money challenge and thinking about abundance and true abundance. True abundance is that freedom to really pursue the things that light us up, that hold us. We're so wired to think abundance is a number in a bank account or a job title or a success level A. And those things are all great, but if your alignment isn't there, it doesn't mean anything. That's not gonna be true abundance.

A (65:04)

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think that was really the beginning of me learning about what true abundance really means. Because it's very jarring, right, to go from financial abundance to be like, but I have all this money, I have all these savings, but I have no access to joy. And then to actually practice joy as a muscle and literally do things, things just for the fun of it. And I had to force myself to take naps because I'm a projector. I get very tired very easily. So I. I was taking naps in the middle of the day and I woke, I would wake up feeling so guilty about it, but I would have to, like, journal after and be like, I deserve the rest. I actually enjoyed. I actually feel so much better, right? Like, really turning inwards to be like, how did that make me feel? And I think, you know, I had been in overdrive for so long and living on autopilot that turning inwards, it was number one, very scary because it's a very vulnerable thing to do. But when you really get in there and you check in with yourself constantly you recognize, oh, this feels good. And somewhere along the line, we forget that the whole point is to actually enjoy your life and love your life. I think about the video that's trending right now about Almost forgot this is the whole point. And I caught myself feeling like that a lot throughout the last year of, oh, this is the whole point. Like, the reason why I hustled so hard in my 20s is so that I could be in a space where I am confident in my knowledge, I'm confident in my skill sets, and I get to actually have a good time in my life and treat other people and make meaningful memories and actually spend time with my husband, our dogs. Like, having a very fulfilling life that starts from within. And so there was a bit of an adjustment period with that. That. But yeah, and I think really, as I started to do that, everything just shifted for me in terms of, okay, the path really just appeared in front of me. Right. Again, I. There was no idea of a. There's no concept of a freelancer, really, in Asian culture. It's really just about finding a job, sticking to it. Stability is everything. And so even having a conversation with my parents about maybe I'll do some freelance work. Like, to them, they're like, what is freelance? Like, are you just taking odd jobs on the side, or. And so there's a lot of limiting belief. There still is this real work. And this is where expanders come in. Because my best friend, who introduced me to TVM to begin with, she had manifested her husband through TBM work. And her husband, who's 20 years older than we are, he's a freelancer in creative stuff. So he was a creative freelancer. He's been doing it for 20 years, and he's very successful at it. And so I was like, oh, so it is possible. And I was observing that, oh, you. What do you mean? You can make your own schedule and you can still feel fulfilled and you can ask for your own rates and you have boundaries. Right? So having even one person who can show me that, oh, this is possible, this is not just a dream. That was hugely expansive. And that really allowed me to see, okay, what can I do here with the things that are coming in? For a long time, I was still discounting a lot of the things that came in where I was getting. You know, I was making income now from my creative work. People were finding me somehow through the things I was posting. And I was still telling people, oh, yeah, I'm still unemployed, not doing anything. And then I had to catch myself being like, what do you mean you're unemployed? I'm so busy, actually, like I am fully working, but it's that narrative that I still had to rewrite and just accept that, okay, this is different, this is just a different way that I wasn't used to. But it doesn't mean this can't be my current reality. So I think as I continue to practice and poured love into what I did, my home, everything that brought me joy, everything just came towards me. For example, I'm such a homebody and I would constantly be buying like home decor pieces on Amazon and just like I'm constantly redecorating, adding things up. And then all of a sudden Amazon reached out and was like, do you want to create videos for, for home decor? It was literally exactly what I've been doing already. I'm like, sure. And it became an eight month retainer that I was doing videos for them every single month, literally doing exactly what I had been doing all along. So there was just so many instances of. It was like a nod from the universe of like, you're on the right track. And I just kept following it and that just became a whole thing.

B (69:27)

I think that's so cool too. And I remember talking to you, I think when we were in the process of hiring for the content creator role too, where I loved that you were so clear and boundaried about hiring and taking on clients that were different so you could learn things in different spheres. And you're like, yeah, I don't want to take on too many clients doing this. I'm already doing this kind of content, blah, blah, blah. But I, and I was like, that is so amazing that she's so, she has that sense of self worth and confidence in like, I'm creating my reality for me. Let's see if this aligns versus like sure, I'll do anything you want, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You're kind of like, look, this is what I can do in this vertical, in this bucket, in this pocket. And it also spoke through like the, we got so many, so many submissions for that role. It was insane. And I feel like the, the top people that made it to like the final round, they did a little sample piece and there was something about your submission piece which wound up being the, the reel that we posted for Emily that's pinned on our, on our Instagram. I was like, there is so much heart and emotional stirring from the way that she did this and like her specific eye on this and the way that she story told on this, this it was like, immediately everyone else's was really good, but yours just like, stirred emotion in, like a way that we were like, yes, we have to.

A (70:58)

We have to work with her. She's so good. Oh, that's. Yeah, it was the whole TVM kind of pipeline. And how things ended up here is. Is also really full circle, right. Just knowing how much I leaned on TVM through this process and constantly learning and checking myself and that then it was. I think it was in this January, it had been about a year since I was freelancing and I was getting to the point where, again, I wasn't feeling challenged anymore, right? I was like, I could do this in my sleep. And at a certain point I was like, is this really bringing me joy or is this just bringing me another payment or paycheck? And I had put it on my list. Again, it wasn't anything specific, but I said, I want to be doing more impactful, meaningful work. I want to be making a difference in some way or another. And at the time, I had understood it or interpreted it to myself as, okay, maybe I need to go back to a company and maybe become a manager and like mentor other people. Right? Because that's all I knew. And then this happened. And again, it's like I wasn't even on LinkedIn. I think I saw it on your stories and then I clicked on. If I like, popped up again and I clicked into it, I was like, I think I'm gonna do it. And it was one of those things where I wasn't even looking for anything, but. But it, it happened. And I think when we talked, it just felt like, oh, my God, this was the thing that I was calling in. And it's been so fun and so amazing since then. Just such a hugely expansive experience.

B (72:20)

Yeah, so cool. I mean, your whole journey, I think, is so expansive. I think so many people are going to relate to so many pieces in it. And I also just think it is a true testament of the work and the self worth that you have built, that you are at this place where you really are creating joy for yourself. You are pushing that muscle. Like, I see it even on your stories when you're like, your color walks. This is genius, guys. Share Share what the color walks are.

A (72:47)

Yeah, I mean, I think I saw this idea somewhere, but it was, you know, really gamifying your walks where you're actually being more intentional. So usually when I take a walk and listening to a podcast or something, but there was this idea of a color walk where you go on a Walk. And you just try to. You pick a color and, you know, notice where those colors are in front of you and around you. And so I was just documenting. I would. I'd be like, okay, I'm picking yellow. And then I would notice the yellow flowers, a yellow stop sign, yellow, whatever, yellow birds. And it just. I was like, whoa, this is game changing for walks. Because I was actually in the walk and I was so present. I wasn't just walking, but listening to something and being somewhere else. So even things like that, it just continues to ground me into my reality. And then I think it allows me to access so much more joy that I didn't think was possible before. And it's so much of it is that, like, mind, body connection of, like, feeling safe, feeling the joy in your whole body? Yeah.

B (73:42)

Oh, my God. So good. Okay, last question. What does an abundant life look like for you?

A (73:51)

Yeah, it's funny because when I was thinking about, like, what was the biggest manifestation that came through, through all this work, and it really was, was the realization that happened maybe a couple weeks ago where I had done all my urgent work that day, and I had nothing really urgent to do that day anymore. I was cutting up a bowl of fruit, and I was just sitting there and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is literally everything I've ever wanted. I am sitting in stillness. I am not in a rush. I'm not rushing to go anywhere or feeling like things are demanded from me. And I get to just enjoy my life with no expectations of what's to come next or no fear that this will be taken away from me. And I think that's, to me, is the true abundance of knowing that what is the richest thing in your life is not anything that can be taken away. If I feel safe in my body, if I feel ease, and I have access to feel that ease, no matter what changes happen in my life, that's where it is, and I have it forever, and it can't be taken away. And I think that realization recently was like, whoa, that is the biggest thing to me, and that's all I've ever wanted. That trumps any sort of paycheck or title or status that could ever give me. So I think that's really what it is. And it's. It's been so kismet to just working on this at work and. And really feeling and embodying that. I'm like, wow, it's been such a great lesson in life and such a great season in life.

B (75:22)

Oh, so good. It makes Me emotional thinking about. Cause I know I. I feel that sensation you're talking about. And there's so many moments in my day where I like have to stop and pause and really take it in. Like, wait a second. Like even this, okay, this is so silly and this is very Capricorn of me. But like one of our meetings for the day started at 11 and I was like, okay, I should like check all my emails and do all this stuff before. And I was like, you know what? I actually, the space is kind of messy. Like I really need to just like deep clean. And I spent the morning deep cleaning and I deep clean and then I had a cup of coffee and then I was like five minutes early for my meeting and I was like, that is abundance. Not feeling like I'm fucking up or any, like balls are getting dropped. Like everything will get done when it needs to get done. I trust the flow of it. And honestly, vacuuming my floors made me feel so good. It's so lame. But I was like, I had that and then I had incense going, like, like those little pockets. I'm like, this is abundant. This feels like freedom to me. You know, like getting to have that choice to live your life amongst work and your passions and all of those things, but not neglecting those little small moments where you can like, it feels like taking your power back. That to me is abundance. It's so cool.

A (76:43)

Yes. Sometimes it can really be that simple. And that's like the beauty of it is no ifs and buts, no what ifs. It's just, it can be that simple and it can be that easeful. And I think that's the greatest realization of all, honestly.

B (76:56)

So good. Thank you, Cynthia. So amazing. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode today. And if you are looking for a little deep imagining to keep the momentum going, I would drop into our rooted in abundance Di. It is live right now in pre week and it is the perfect short and sweet di to do when you are going for a walk in nature, when you're taking an abundance walk, when you are taking your color walks, like Cynthia said in this episode, go for that. Enjoy the surroundings around you and listen to the rooted nature of this Di. It is going to ground you not only into the earth and feel connected to the earth, but is also going to connect you to the cosmos. And then that divine thread of the energy between the two gives you this feeling of just safety all around your body and that is tapping into that inner peace which is tapping into the sensation of abundance. Now enjoy.