Ep. 376 - Dr. Tara Swart on Signs from the Other Side: Love, Loss, and Connection Beyond Death

Summary

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EXPANDED Podcast by To Be Magnetic™

Ep. 376 – Dr. Tara Swart on Signs from the Other Side: Love, Loss, and Connection Beyond Death
Air Date: October 10, 2025
Host: Jessica Gill (with Lacy Phillips)
Guest: Dr. Tara Swart

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Episode Overview

This powerful episode brings back Dr. Tara Swart, neuroscientist and TBM’s scientific advisor, to discuss the intersection of science and spirituality around “signs” from departed loved ones. Dr. Tara shares her deeply personal journey following the death of her husband, Robin, and the signs she received that fueled the writing of her new book. The hosts, Jessica and Lacy, guide an intimate and, at times, mystical conversation that merges neuroscience, grief, ancient traditions, and mediumship—including a live channeling moment with Lacy. The recording also explores the evolving role of community, art, and beauty in healing and connecting with intuition.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Tara Swart’s Grief and Journey with Signs

[17:39] – [21:47]

• Dr. Tara recounted losing her husband Robin to acute myeloid leukemia in 2021. His passing was devastating, and Tara credits her support network for helping her through.
  • "I was just so broken and lost...I really don't think I'd be here today if it wasn't for the people that I had around me." — Dr. Tara, [18:28]
• Desperate for a sign from Robin, Tara began to experience a series of extraordinary events—seeing robins, feeling his presence through dreams and physical sensations, and even thought insertions she knew were from him.
  • "I was woken up in the middle of the night by a really heavy thump to my shoulder...I could see him appearing, like, more solidly standing next to my bed." — Dr. Tara, [18:54]
• Her scientific background made her question her sanity, leading to self-analysis and a gradual acceptance of these events as meaningful.

2. Science Meets Mysticism: The Nature of Signs

[21:47] – [26:09]

• Dr. Tara describes her skepticism and quest to find scientific explanations for her experiences, exploring research on near-death experiences, inherited traits, and consciousness.
• The book weaves together personal narrative, neuroscience, and ancient traditions of ancestor work.
  • "I've also referenced a lot of ancient wisdom and none of this is new. This is all things that we've forgotten." — Dr. Tara, [28:14]

3. Safety, Skepticism and the Role of Community

[26:09] – [29:02]

• The trio discuss societal taboos and shame around spiritual experiences, especially for professionals in science and medicine.
• Lacy emphasizes the need for discernment and boundaries when connecting across the veil. Tara echoes that the journey needs psychological safety and clear boundaries.

4. Genetics, the Senses, and the "Veil"

[29:02] – [34:54]

• Jessica asks about "the gene" that may explain why some people interact with the spirit world more easily; Dr. Tara explains evolutionary perspectives and current genetics thinking.
  • "I strongly believe that anyone can do this if they want to...I don't think I was psychic or channeling before." — Dr. Tara, [29:53]
• Anecdotes abound, such as seeing the name "Astral Drive" while discussing Robin being on a different plane and other synchronicities, all witnessed by others.

5. Channeling and Mediumship: A Live Transmission

[39:53] – [47:32]

• Lacy channels Robin’s presence in a powerful, emotional moment:
  • "His presence is, like, tall, but gentle, but stoic. Maybe a little funny. Like a little bit of English humor, you know? Very funny." — Lacy, [43:46]
  • "You're going to open up a new thought process, a new bridge, a new connection that many people would have not had access to if it wasn't coming through you specifically." — Lacy (channeling Robin), [44:30]
• Both Tara and Jessica confirm the energy and synchronicity, with Jessica noting:
  • "If you can send her an unmistakable sign today, either during our recording or afterwards, only send it if it can come through with love and it doesn't scare her or upset her…Please come through today when we're all connected." — Jessica, [45:36]
• Tara admits, "I've already had that thought. I had to write this book for that reason, to make his passing like, mean something and make a difference." [45:05]

6. Signs, Connection, and Brain Science

[34:54] – [42:10]; [48:06] – [61:09]

• Tara discusses the phases of connection with loved ones who have passed—from grief to guidance to joy—relating it to changes in brain chemistry.
  • Reference to prairie voles and oxytocin, research illuminating how grief lessens in intensity over time.
• Dr. Tara distinguishes the difference between occasional signs as comfort vs. ongoing guidance.
• Discussion on animals’ heightened senses and their sensitivity to death and spirits.
  • "Cats and dogs have a much more sensitive sense of smell than we do, to the point that they can smell impending death." — Dr. Tara, [48:06]

7. The 34 Human Senses & Clair Abilities

[53:13] – [61:09]

• Dr. Tara’s research identified 34 physiological senses in humans, excluding the clair senses.
  • “Taste is subdivided into five…The latest one to be recognized as a sense is the immune system.” — Dr. Tara, [54:17]
• Discussion of how intuitive and psychic capacities may one day be scientifically classified as senses.
• The neuroscience of mediumship: altered states (breathwork, plant medicine), latent inhibition, and how creativity can open the “filter” to the nonphysical world.

8. Practical Pillars for Receiving Signs & Strengthening Intuition

[32:36] – [73:01]

• Tara outlines pillars that support intuition and connection: openness, expanded senses, intuition, creativity, nature, and social support.
• Connection to gut health, trauma, and the body’s wisdom influences our capacity to perceive.
  • “Physicality was a huge way to not just bring [intuition] back, but take it to the next level.” — Dr. Tara, [62:57]
• Scientific and evolutionary value of art and beauty in human survival and flourishing.
  • "There’s a statistic that shows that people who indulge in the arts, like, every two months, have a 31% lower chance of dying." — Dr. Tara, [70:13]
• The conscious practice of "noticing beauty" as a means of returning to gratitude and abundance.
  • "It's not becoming habituated and just putting your head down and rushing through life. It's looking around and actually appreciating how beautiful life is." — Dr. Tara, [74:01]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On choosing connection after devastating loss:
  "I totally could have become very bitter and felt like life was unfair...But I made a very conscious choice that I wanted to return to love, to gratitude." — Dr. Tara, [00:00]/[69:44]
• On “learning to see signs”:
  "It's like we're in constant communication, and I can ask for something and I'll see a sign that day...I describe it like learning a new language." — Dr. Tara, [19:54]
• On beauty and expanded living:
  “If people can start to access that, that is one's access point to starting to feel into what you're talking about, Dr. Tara—our greater potential, not only in humanity… but individually, our superpowers.” — Lacy, [71:19]
• On our evolving paradigm:
  “Do you ever think about a day in the life of Homo erectus, and are we so arrogant that we actually think we're the last type of human that's ever going to exist? ...I think these are the sorts of questions that we need to be asking each other.”—Dr. Tara, [66:28]
• On art and survival:
  "Why did we hum, chant, drum, dance, sing, why did we make cave paintings? ...art and beauty are essential to our survival.” — Dr. Tara, [63:31]

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Timestamped Highlights

• Dr. Tara’s Loss and Signs Experience: [17:39]
• Science Behind Signs & Mediumship: [26:09]
• Ancient Traditions & Community: [28:14]
• Live Channeling with Lacy: [42:10]
• Differentiating Guidance from Loved Ones: [39:53]
• Animals & the Senses: [48:06]
• The 34 Human Senses: [53:13]
• Beauty and Neuroaesthetics: [73:01]

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Key Takeaways

• Grief can be transformed into ongoing connection—rooted in both emotion and observable phenomena.
• Neuroscientific and psychological frameworks can explain, validate, and complement mystical experiences.
• The “veil” between worlds may be thinner for some, but everyone can access signs and intuition with openness and intention.
• Practices that foster intuition include engaging with beauty, art, nature, community, and deliberate attention to the present.
• Societal scripts around the supernatural can be rewritten by blending science and lived experience, giving permission to trust one’s own signs.
• Beauty is a powerful path back to gratitude, expansion, and resilience—a bridge between the visible and the unseen.

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Connect with Dr. Tara Swart:

• Instagram
• Her new book (details and global links in her Instagram bio)

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Closing Message

"It's not becoming habituated and just putting your head down and rushing through life. It's looking around and actually appreciating how beautiful life is."
— Dr. Tara Swart, [74:01]

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Transcript

[Dr. Tara Swart]

I totally could have become very bitter and felt like life was unfair to me for the rest of my life. But I made a very conscious choice that I wanted to return to love, to gratitude. It's not becoming habituated and just putting your head down and rushing through life. It's looking around and actually appreciating how beautiful life is.

[Jessica]

Have you ever felt like you were getting signs from the universe? Whether it's 11, 11, maybe a butterfly, a spirit guide of some sort, or. Or a loved one that has passed, A spirit that has passed on. In today's episode, we have neuroscientist Dr. Tara Swart on to talk about the science of signs. What is actually happening? And are those experiences real? What is the science behind it? What has she found from her own experiences, from the research she's looking at? And could those signs be a sign of something more? I know our audience is going to be so excited to have Dr. Tara back on. She has been our neuroscientist adviser here at tbm, helping us back all of the science behind the tools that you know and love. And today's episode gets crazy. If you guys have ever wanted a channeling experience from Lacy, you are getting one of the best and wildest ones that we have ever seen. I know we get that request a lot, actually, Lacy, for her channeling to come through. So stay open minded, stay curious and. And yeah, go in with a very open mind to this one. Cause it's gonna be so powerful. And I wanted to have Lacy come in this intro as well and talk a little bit about some of the really exciting things we have going on as a brand. Some more channelings and things to expect this season.

[Lacy]

Yeah, I really wanted to hop on with Jessica at the top of this episode because we, you and I haven't even gotten a chance to process what the fuck happened in this episode. We haven't even had a minute to catch. And so I think the precursor to talk about is my psychic dial in the last three months is turned up so high. There's nothing I've done differently. I'm not trying to cultivate it. I'm just trying to go about my chaotic mom life. But the veil has been so incredibly thin, especially during that whole eclipse period. And so it's funny because prior to this episode by a month or two, I said, jessica, I really feel like the universe is wanting us to connect with people in person because it's sending so much information through me right now. I just read about in my substack this week I'm having this, like, these crazy things happening prior in the past, when I had clients, we would talk for a bit and then I would start channeling and I could start to detangle their blocks. Instantly I'm walking by people not knowing them, knowing nothing about them. And the universe is saying, here's their pattern, here's their thing. So it's very intense right now for me. And so I think the precipice of me being like, let's do the speaking tour is because I believe massive transmissions are going to come through in person that. That will not be experienced otherwise. There's like, when we are on a speaking tour in the room, there's such a heightened vortex that's happening with a space of like 600 other people who are doing the same work as you on a mere neuron vortex level, where I've heard multiple times. I don't know about you, Jessica, but when. When someone le. So, like, this one thing that someone said or you said or that happened completely changed the course of my life. Like, I was unblocked after that moment. So there's like this way deeper excavation that happens in this liminal, heightened vortex space that just doesn't totally happen as quickly when you're just doing your own di. So, yeah, that was something that I found. I'm like, we have to process this a little bit. But post the episode, you're about to hear where I had for the very first time. I have the gift of mediumship. My mom has it very strongly. I've always been really afraid of mine. Never have harnessed it, have run away from it. But in this episode, Dr. Tara's late husband comes through and was standing right next to me, communicating to me, through me, to Dr. Tara. So I can only fucking imagine what's going to happen in New York in this speaking tour. So, yeah, let's talk a little bit about what does the speaking tour entail, what's going to be happening there. And then let's talk a little bit about this process that I don't think we've totally introduced to everybody about how we're going to hold their hand through these really important steps. Three steps through the next three months, and each builds onto the other. So you're not going to want to miss out on any of them. They're really systematically designed.

[Jessica]

Well, I think it really starts with the fact that this has been such a big year of stripping and there's been so many challenges for people, and not a day goes by that I don't Get a dm. It's like, oh my God, the stripping. Like this just happened and this just happened. I have this new identity. And simultaneously, people are also manifesting faster and more rapidly than ever before as well. And that energy is going to continue to come over the next year or so, right?

[Lacy]

I've been getting the channeling of 2 and so have every systems out there. Like whether it's human design, the new paradigm, the Aquarian age, over the next two years, it's going to, it's going to speed up.

[Jessica]

And the thing that we learned of like watching what was going on, especially with our members, is the ones that were really getting intentional doing this work, showing up, feeling through all of their feelings, processing it and coming through it with alignment, they were having a much easier time navigating. They were the ones who are manifesting extremely rapidly. And we're like, okay, what is the differentiator? We need to hold people's hands through this work, to keep them accountable, to keep them showing up, to keep them in that sensation of hope, even if they are dealing with really challenging things, so they can navigate it with more ease and alignment on the other side and meet those big manifestations. So that's really where this idea of this three prong kind of roadmap with you guys came about. We are kicking off with the speaking tour. At the speaking tour, it's really a place whether you're a member or you're not a member or you listen to the podcast, or maybe you're bringing along your friend who has literally never heard of tvm. We've had so many people bring their friend or family member who has never heard of it and this is their first exposure to it. Every single person is welcome. It'll help anyone at any level. But this is where we're going to get really intentional about. What is that one thing you want to call in? What is the one thing on your list you want to call in? What is the thing that has, you know, been sitting with you and, and coming up again and again and again and getting clarity on it and then looking at, if you review this whole past year, what are the inner child blocks that are still playing out, that are still gripping to your old self that you're being asked to let go of? We have all new archetypes that we're going to start talking about at that speaking tour. We'll have a brand new di and then we have a community hour where you can actually integrate, connect, chat, test out some of our favorite wellness products, set intentions out into the universe, all of these things. But really the biggest thing you're going to get away from this speaking tour is that, oh, that aha moment of I am a different person on the other side of it. And it's not like one gigantic thing is going to happen. It's like this microscopic, almost undetectable thing that's happening subconsciously by being in person that you will then walk out of that room and be like, okay, I know what I need to do, or I know what I need to change, or I'm done with this, or, oh, my gosh, I have clarity on this, or I feel expanded in this. It's gonna be different for everyone. But that is what you will walk out of the room feeling.

[Lacy]

Yeah, it's gonna be like eclipsy. That's the best way I've been getting it from the universe. Like a transmission is gonna come that might not be obvious, just like Jessica's saying, but eclipsy in the sense that you're a different person. Like, there's a restructuring in your approach to life after or to your process a hundred percent.

[Jessica]

So if you haven't gotten tickets yet, we have New York, Austin and la. There's still time to get those general admission tickets. So grab them, grab them for your friends. We're going to be in New York on the 25th, which is so soon. I cannot wait to connect with you guys. And then the next phase of this process is going through the formula. So grab your book, grab how to manifest. We are going to do a free book club for everyone. Everyone will be accessible. There'll be live calls all, all in the month of November, where we're going to go through chapter by chapter. What is coming up? What are the exercises? This is the first time we're really teaching the method in real time as going through it. Instead of just you guys going through it in the challenge and you're learning it, we're actually going to be teaching it on these live calls and talking through it on this live call. So if you've ever wanted a masterclass in tbm, you've ever wanted to set your motion in process, this is the thing to fortify that foundation, to get that clarity. This is the process that has transformed tens of thousands of people's lives. We were talking to our marketing expert and she was like, I really just want people to know, like, your life's gonna fucking change on the other side of this. Like, everything is gonna be different and more aligned. Like, you can't even comprehend what is gonna happen. So if you've been with us for a long time, again, that potency of doing this alongside community, who's also committed to this work, and the accountability is gonna make such a shift. And then at the very end of the year in December, our final stop is going to be our very short and sweet 15 day end of year challenge. More on the theme later.

[Lacy]

I've been pushing for it for two years.

[Jessica]

Two years.

[Lacy]

It's so important. Again, like, each of these things build on each other, right? Like at the speaking tour, there's going to be some sort of transmission alteration that happens where we cast our list together and call that thing in. And that's intentional. We're doing that months earlier than usual so that it just starts orbiting, right? So there's that big thing that's going to happen there. We're going through the process together in this book club again, accessible to everybody. Totally free to get to the third part, which is going to be where you do the deep excavation. I can't wait for it to be announced for the challenge.

[Jessica]

And that is really about reconnecting with our magic, reconnecting with our play, our authenticity, our creativity. The parts of us that maybe we've sealed off and tied away, the parts of us that we're not allowing to feel safe to express. We're going to do all the deep inner work to bring those parts to life and celebrate them in such a fun way. I can't wait more on that soon. But that's going to be the culmination. And doing these three steps is going to set you in such a good position for the next year. No matter what comes your way, to have that resilience, to have that faith and to really dream big. I mean, that's one. One thing that's been coming through to me so much is like, people need to dream bigger. Things are dropping off and they're getting bummed about them. And I totally get that. And some people, what's dropping off is very heavy and feel your feelings and move through that grief. But I just want to instill this feeling that, like, it can be good. There's a quote that I keep that keeps ringing in my head of like, universe, show me how good it gets. Show me how good it can get. I just want to give you guys that message that this is what this season is all preparing us for. Like, show us how good it can get. Show us how much we can bring the light back in, the joy back in. No matter what's going on outside in the world and how that light can spread out to so many other people.

[Lacy]

Yeah, the. I think the big ping I've been getting, the big message that's been coming through is like, have you really dreamed up your dream life? And when I say that the structures of most scaffolding in society as we know it are going to rapidly shift, also, the way that you look at those structures, like an example for me, recently, I've been like, what is the importance of school? I've been processing this for my children. I'm like, this is going to change in the face of AI. Like, it's done. Why not then completely redo it in a way that. That fits this, like, honestly, for them, their authentic selves and. And the things that actually will matter in the next, you know, 20 years? And that's just one example about how, I mean, things are going to rapidly shift. So have we, most of us, again, I will see what happens at the first New York stop. Most of us don't even have any visibility behind the screen of what kind of scaffolding is going to fall down in society in a great way. Part whole stripping. If you haven't ever watched that, the channeling from earlier this year in the Pathway where I channel about stripping, it's going to happen in such a way that most things as you know it are. Yeah. Depending on and way. This isn't a way to scare your life. It's actually going to create this, opening this stripping for your dream life. You know what I mean? And a lot of people are going to be freaked out, but it's like every one of us in this community are going to have this primer and we're going to be so prepared. It's like, have you ever sat and really thought about your dream life? Not just elements of it. The thing I want that this, the. Your dream life, how it feels, that's been the bigger message that's coming through to me. So I'm really excited to dig into it in New York on this beautiful, really cool book club we're going to do. And then I can't wait, of course, for us to announce the theme of the challenge. I feel like this is just so exciting because I've been wanting it for so long.

[Jessica]

What are the exercises? I can't wait.

[Lacy]

Anyway, without further ado, we'll get into this episode. But yeah, just wanted to hop on, process a little bit and tell people what's in store for the next three months. Especially if you're experiencing the stripping. Maybe you experienced it a couple Months ago, and you're like, okay, cool, I found the grounding. It's not over, so it's gonna keep going. So just, like, the more you can prime, the more you can be totally in your regulated, resourced, authentic magnetic place. This can actually feel like magic between your finger. Like the liminal space between. The veil's so thin, between what you're calling in versus what you want can be so short and quick. So it's really exciting.

[Jessica]

So good. All right, onto the episode of the doctor Tara. And now a word from our partners. As I get older, I've been discovering how important muscle growth really is for healthy aging. Not just aesthetics, but to move with ease, to do everyday things, and to really protect your bones as you get older. And honestly, I didn't realize how big of a role creatine actually plays in that, especially for women. That's why I started taking beam creatine, because I wanted something clean, effective, and easy to trust. And honestly, it's made a real difference. Creatine helps to supply energy to your muscles, which can help increase muscle mass, strength, and exercise performance overall. And in recent studies, it has shown significant boosts in brain function and mental clarity, especially over time. So this isn't just about today's workout or movement. It's about investing how you want to feel in 10 to 20 years from now. Like everything else, the quality matters. And being creatine is just that high quality. They don't use fillers, they don't use sugar. Nothing synthetic. Just clean, pure creatine backed by science and used by people who care about staying mentally sharp and strong. And you can get 30% off with our code TBM. Go to shop beam.com TBM and use code TBMALCAPS for 30% off. And now onto the episode. Dr. Taurus Ward. Welcome back to the expanded podcast. We're so excited to have you here today.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Thank you. It's always so nice and energizing to be with you too.

[Lacy]

It's just old time's sake.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

It really is. Yeah.

[Jessica]

I was gonna say, I think one of the number one questions we get is, like, where's Tara? Like, when is she coming back? We need her on expanded again. I'm like, she is an in demand woman, guys. Like, she has a busy life. We will get her back. Trust the timing.

[Lacy]

Well, catch us up. Dr. Tara. What's been going on?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Well, I was basically at home in my onesie writing my book for a year and being very antisocial. And then since finishing that, it's just Been a bit of a blur. And we're actually, as we're recording, I'm in book launch week, so I've been to the States three times in two months doing all the sort of stuff in London, like breakfast radio and breakfast tv. So, yeah, it's quite tiring, but, you know, it really does feel like a mission and an important message, so that's what keeps me going.

[Jessica]

So, Tara, fill in the audience where you have been and really what this book is about and this story with Robin. I remember when it was happening and going through it, how challenging that was. And I also really love and admire that you kept it really close to the heart and not sharing it publicly until you really felt ready to open that up. So talk a little bit about kind of your grieving process and what you've been going through over the past few years.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah. And I think what I want to acknowledge is that you were two of the very few people that actually knew what had happened and sent me the most beautiful flowers and bath oil and tea, and it was just, you know, so appreciated. So, yeah, I mean, I had been shielding Robin during the pandemic because he had this underlying condition and he was vulnerable. But in 2021, his underlying condition progressed to acute myeloid leukemia. And it was very aggressive, and the treatment basically didn't work. So it was sort of four months in and out of hospital, and then I had to bring him home to our place in the countryside for the last few weeks of his life. And he was given two weeks to live, but he actually lived for three and a half weeks. And he passed away two days before our fourth wedding anniversary. But, you know, we'd even talked about sort of maybe going to the hospice and getting a blood transfusion on that, that day. And he was sleeping in our house on the hospital bed, and I was sleeping on the sofa around the corner so that I could be there if he needed me. And I even said to him, like, they'll let me come and stay at the hospice with you. Do you think you can hold on till then? And he said, yes. But I think it was about two days after that he passed away. It was, like, totally, totally devastating. I was just so broken and lost. I'm so grateful for, like, you and all my friends who were so, so amazing. And I really don't think I'd be here today if it wasn't for the people that I had around me. And so I know a few people who've lost someone. You know, I had lost my grandparents, but not someone like that close to me. And obviously, in our friendship group, people talk about things like signs. And I heard about signs from lost loved ones, and I desperately wanted one, but I wasn't getting anything. I did see a lot of robins in the garden. Like, an unusual amount. Like, I've never seen that many before, but it wasn't enough for me. That didn't prove to me that he was still, like, around and we were still connected. But about six weeks after he passed away, I was woken up in the middle of the night by a really heavy thump to my shoulder. And I opened my eyes, and I could see him appearing, like, more solidly standing next to my bed. And I know, you know, I totally know that I was awake because I'd actually heard a sound and got up a little bit before that and then come back to bed. That, I guess, was the first of, like, do I actually tell anyone that this happened? Because what are people going to think? And then I started mentioning it to a few people, and I. I had a neighbor who drove me to the Christmas market because it was December by then. And I didn't know if she was spiritual or religious or anything, but I ended up just kind of blurting it out to her. And she turned to me with this huge smile on her face and said, you are so lucky. I lost my dad last year, and I wish that I could ever see him again. And I don't think I really appreciated it at the time. But now I look back and think, you know, I'm sure everybody who's lost somebody would want to see them. So I do feel lucky. And then, you know, you know, I love my hashtag. I find hearts. And I started seeing white feathers and all the sort of, like, classical things. But then, because he was in finance and he wrote this finance report, and he was obsessed with the Fibonacci sequence, it suddenly made sense to me that he would communicate with me through numbers because I was, like, seeing angel numbers. But then I started asking for specific numbers, like on anniversaries and things like this. I describe it like learning a new language. At first, it would kind of not be on the correct day or the exact number. But over time, by about two and a half years after he passed away, it's like we're in constant communication, and I can ask for something and I'll see a sign. That day, I had this phenomena that I knew about from psychiatry called thought insertion, where I would have a thought in my head that I knew wasn't mine. And I Knew it was him. But obviously, as a former psychiatrist, I was like, am I, like, losing my mind? So, you know, I had to be very kind of sensible about it and look in the mirror and be like, you know, am I depressed? Am I psychotic? Run through all the symptoms, realize that I've got insight. I'm still carrying on my life. It's not harming my life. It's bringing me comfort, sharing it with my friends. They really gave me the psychological safety to talk about signs, which is not what I think people would expect a doctor to talk about. Yeah. So it's become like a huge part of my life and how I live, like, so differently now.

[Jessica]

I mean, Lacey, I kind of want to hear your thoughts on this too, because out of all of us, I feel like you've had so many experiences with other essences and spirits and things like that. How has your connection to trusting that? I can imagine, Tara, for you coming from the science field and coming into these gifts and being able to recognize these signs and start to harness them more and more is probably terrifying. Lacey, how was your experience with that and just working with these other things? I mean, if there is a community where you can feel safe to talk about it, Tara, it's definitely ours.

[Lacy]

Well, what I really love is you had shared that with us at a lunch. We were all together, like the TVM team, and you shared that, and I could tell you were, like, newly on the journey of it. But I'll preface that I was raised by a psychic medium, so my mom has the most honed in. I've. I've spoken to many mediums, you know, through this field and know a lot in our peer group. And my mom is the most gifted one I've ever known. Spirits are with her, talk to her constantly. It's so in depth. And I have the gift of mediumship as well. It's one that I'm not that comfortable with, and they really are. Spirits are with me, contacting me, attracted to me all of the time. And so I've had to actually do a lot of practices around a lot of boundaries because I'm just. It's just not. I'm helping so many people alive right now. I haven't opened up that channel yet to help people who transitioned. So I love hearing this through your lens, the science and your own personal journey. And it's so timely that we're recording this today because I quite literally just put. Put out on my substack an entire thing about ancestors today and how to truly work with them. Communicate with them because they've been very present in this particular eclipse portal. I don't know about you all, but it's been the most vivid, often disturbing dreams for most of the psychic people I know. And people are just like, what's happening? I can't stop it. All of our normal tools aren't stopping it. That tells me that the veil is very thin right now. And that's when I feel that ancestors and spirits are really, really close to us. So this is a bit of a tangent, but I'm very curious if you have had more communication lately right now tar during this eclipse portal than normal. And you what are your dreams like? And then we'll, like, dig in. But I'm just curious what you guys are experiencing right now.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

I was obviously aware that it's the eclipse portal, but I didn't particularly think it was because of that. Because it's my book launch week. I thought that's why Robin would be sending me extra signs, but it's probably both. So for me, dreams aren't a big part of it. I've only seen Robin in my dreams two or three times, but he sends messages to me through three particular friends of mine have dreamt of him and sent me messages. So he obviously uses other people for some reason for dreams. And just going back to your point about having boundaries around this, around the two and a half year mark, and it was around Valentine's Day, I was getting so many signs, it was the most I'd ever had. And I remember saying to my astrologer, I am going to cross this veil. I'm going to find him. And he said, if you do that, you will be opening yourself up to so many other entities, it's dangerous. And I think that's when I had the insight that I feel like I'm in communication with him every day. That's now got to be enough. The real gift from him is that if I re engage with life properly, and that's pretty much when I decided to start writing the book, because I was never going to publicly share just a sad story. I always said to my friends, if I get the benefit of hindsight and learn something that I think can help other people, then I'll share if I have to. And I questioned everything as a scientist, so it wasn't enough for me to just feel that comfort as a wife. I wanted to, you know, find out how this could possibly work in terms of the nature of consciousness. So although our conversation is very magical at the moment, in the book, there's all the science research from near death experiences, dark retreats, terminal lucidity, time in nature, neuro arts, it's all in there. So yeah, it's exciting.

[Lacy]

I want to say something that's so interesting that I, when I was writing this piece on ancestors because obviously my demographics already bought in, you know, the science which I cannot wait to dig into your book because I think it's so important for. For a very specific reason that basically pre Christian through Europe and pre colonial missionariesm, every single culture in the world worked with spirits and their ancestors with reverence daily, monthly. And so it was truly after the introduction of religion that that was considered bad or harmful. There are many different, you know, different ways that it was looked at. The so that's what I love about our time so much is I think there's such a reckoning at this moment to start working behind the veil. And I have to say very clearly on the boundary note, evolved because we all know just like family members or anybody when we're working with loved ones on the other side and or spirit on the other side, people haven't fully transcended or evolved or still are stuck or we're very low vibrational going into it all. So it is really important to be working with elevated energy. But what I love about this time, I love so much that you're bringing the science in even a way like that we even have the science. But also it's a deeper healing for people who are probably so curious or are so deeply in grief but have been told their whole lives that this isn't real, this doesn't exist. And so it's this beautiful to me intersection of it's okay and here's why it's okay and here's why it's normal. And here let's start to work with this energy to process and to have access and to communicate. So I think that this is so timely and beautiful and important because if we were all sitting together a thousand years ago, this would be a very normal conversation, you know, something that we all hold really dear in reverence completely.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

And on that note, I want to say that I've also referenced a lot of ancient wisdom and none of this is new. This is all things that we've forgotten. And in my religion, Hinduism, I was brought up with ancestor worship. My mother would leave food offerings in the garden and say that my grandparents were walking around but we just couldn't see them. So I was brought up with that. But this devastation made me question everything. And I think, you know, from the response so far, that has been really helpful to people because people literally feel ashamed. They keep it secret. They think people will think they're crazy. And I've shared my human experience, but I am also a scientist and a medical doctor. So the biggest theme of what people have said to me is, thank you so much for making me feel seen and giving me permission to embrace my experience.

[Jessica]

Tara, talk about the gene where people used to be able to see past death and see dead people. And evolutionarily, if they had that gene, they were more frivolous, let's say, or more risk adventuresome and would die sooner. And so that started to move out of the population because they wanted to wire people for survival.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah. So David Hamilton, PhD, wrote this really interesting article about the fact that there may have been genes and inherited brain structures that allowed some people to see beyond the veil. And the research from near death experiences is quite similar in that once you've had a near death experience, you no longer fear death. So you're more likely to take risk in life because you just engage with life on a deeper level. In ancient times, like particularly the Greeks and Romans would actually bury people for days to reenact death, and then when they uncovered them, they would become the mystics and seers of the community. So this potential gene that allowed people to see beyond the veil because like with near death experiences, it would mean that you don't fear death, you're more likely to take risk in life. You could, on a very simple genetic basis, argue that they were more likely to die out. But genetics isn't that simple. It's much more likely, in the complex way that genes work, that there are still people today that have some of those genes. So that could explain mediumship. But I strongly believe that anyone can do this if they want to, because I don't think I was psychic or channeling before. And I just want to pick up on a couple of conversations that since we had that lunch that I had with Jessica, which was you were driving me back to my friend's place in Hollywood Hills, and I remember saying to you, I'm worried that I'm not letting him go and that's bad for his spirit. And you said, no, no, no, he will look after himself. And. And I said something like, he's in a good place for himself and we can still talk. He's just on a different astral plane. And then we turned the corner and the road was called Astral Drive.

[Lacy]

Do you remember?

[Jessica]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah. We were like, I know but so many things like that have happened to me, so. And, you know, and anyone should reasonably argue that there is such a thing as confirmation bias. And if you say, I want to see Robbins or I want to see White Feathers or I Want to see 1111, you are more likely to notice it. But I've got to the point now where I no longer have to ask. I just get sent things. So, for example, I was at dinner with a friend, and as we were talking, I looked at the bottom of the glass, and etched into the bottom of the glass was RB for Robin Bieber. And all the glasses were branded like that. And that's not a common, common thing. And then, because 44 is one of my angel numbers, she went to note his birthday into her phone calendar and then had this shocked look on her face. And she said, well, it's my aunt's birthday, so it's noted in there. But I had this habit of putting in the age that they were going to turn that year, but I've stopped doing it now for about seven years. So in Robin's birthday in her diary, it was her aunt's name and then age 44, but aunt's, like, not 44 anymore. And then the next morning, because she paid for dinner, got me a birthday present and everything, and we normally always split, but she didn't realize she'd prepaid. She got an email, she sent me a screenshot of. And the title was a thank you from Robin. And it was a receipt for a charitable donation that she'd made, like, two weeks earlier. Wow. I know. And she said, you know, I never knew him, but I really feel he communicates through me. And I said, I've noticed it, too.

[Jessica]

This kind of speaks to one of your pillars. And in the book, you kind of go through those pillars that really help you connect to your own intuition, connect to signs, and just to list them out, openness, your senses, which I want to talk about having 34 senses instead of just the five. Your intuition, creativity, nature, and each other. But the importance of having people around you that aren't looking at you like, oh, you're being crazy, or they're partaking in the signs with you. And the experience we had, even driving with the Astral street, or Astral Road, whatever it was, you write it in the book, an unmistakable sign, like it was just too coincidental to land in that way. And I think at least the experiences I've had when those signs have come up, it almost confirms it. When you experience it with someone else who is Also feeling like this is oddly, you know, this, this is really sticking out than just like your normal. You look at the clock and it's 11:11. You know, this just felt a little bit more intentional.

[Lacy]

Yeah, I agree.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Like it's quite a few points here. So there is that psychological safety, but it's also more like it's proof. Because if I just came and said to you I was thinking about Astral Planes and then I saw this street name, it's not the same for you as having been there with me in that moment and us both gasping. And another time I had gone to visit a tree that has got a plaque with his name on it near one of my friends houses. And as we got in the car, obviously we'd both been thinking of him. It was a friend of Robin's. Actually, that's still my friend. He turned the ignition on and a song came on the radio which I didn't recognize. And he was like, oh my goodness. And I said, what? And he said, it's a Justin Bieber song. And then the lyrics were really relevant to something I was going through at the time. And my, that friend is not spiritual at all. So it was good for me to see him experiencing that with me as well and kind of, you know, opening up that experience for him. But also because of our communities. When I was writing the book, I wasn't allowed to use stories from my friends about signs because that's confirmation bias too. So I literally had to get stories from strangers. So all the, all the case studies in the book are not people that I know. They're either someone I've met once or they're a friend of a friend.

[Lacy]

So my question to you is because I'm so curious during your research, but mostly through your personal experience, my biggest question that I pose, and I feel like I know this psychically and as a medium, but why, aside from him having loved you and you were the love of his life, why do you believe he's so constantly in contact with you still?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

I think because I needed it. I believe that a very strong emotion. Like when I wrote in the Source about magnetic desire, in terms of manifestation, it's kind of similar because I was really struggling and I couldn't accept that we wouldn't still be connected. And I needed proof of that. And he would have known that. And he, you know, everybody loves their husband, but I, you know, I feel like, okay to say that. To me, if there was one person that would try to do that to help me, it was him. So There were times, there was a time, particularly at the super moon a couple of years ago, where I was so distressed that I said to him in my mind, if I don't get a sign from you, like today, I actually don't know if I can carry on. And suddenly in my head this thought came in, which was, I'm going to see Robin with the moon. Now, my assistant had said that 6pm in her time zone, she was doing a little ceremony and she put his name in for it and that I should try and look at the moon at 6pm But I had a call at 6pm So I went up to my roof terrace and the moon was still behind the tall buildings across the road. And I thought, it's going to be hours, so I'll come back maybe 9pm Then I came all the way back down. I've got a really tall, thin house. And after about half an hour I had this absolute urge that I had to go back up to the roof terrace. And I took my phone with me for some reason and when I got there, the moon had risen and two planes had crossed in the sky. So there was like a kiss mark in the sky. So I took a picture, sent it to a friend who's a super spiritual person in Colombia and said, look, Robin sent me a kiss with the moon and she said, well, look at the cloud formation. It looks like somebody's blowing that kiss. And I had taken several photos, like seconds apart. So, and this was just one of them. And it literally, that cloud formation looked like the profile picture of him in one of our wedding pictures.

[Jessica]

Wow.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

And I've obviously still got that photo. So I could show it to you and I could show you the picture and I think you'd agree with, wow.

[Jessica]

So beautiful, so wild. I love it.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Thank you.

[Jessica]

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[Lacy]

I'm so curious of your stories, the different stories that you have in there of people's experiences. At a certain point, does the communication start to sort of dwindle and become less and become once every so or, you know, based on their grief cycle? Because it sounds to me like he's still in constant communication with you, what you've developed and how to communicate basically beyond the veil. Do you feel there's a difference between a loved one that's transitioned versus one that's transitioned and has now become a very strong guiding presence in one's life?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah, let's look at that from several angles. So one of my friends who sadly has now lost both her parents, said to me in the first few months after Robyn passed, I'm, I'm partly envious of you that you still have such an open channel to with him because it does fade with time. I remember thinking I'm not anywhere close to ready for this to fade with time. So I think there was a bit of a conscious decision to not just let that happen. But if we look at brain chemistry, I'm going to talk about monogamous voles here. So they mate for life and the receptors in the brain for oxytocin and where they are, so more of them in the reward center of the brain become activated. And so every time they see each other or mate, then the bond becomes deepened and it's genes and brain chemistry. But when they are separated for a long period of time, either through death or, you know, for whatever reason, that bonding intensity does reduce. And basically that's a, you know, a comfort for grief in that you are not going to feel that tragic and devastated constant, constantly for the rest of your life. Things will change in your brain that will make it easier to live without that person. And so where at first it brought me comfort when I was really, you know, sad, later it definitely felt like guidance. And now I would say it feels like joy. For example, you both know that I've been married before, and I'm very good friends with my ex husband. So I was able to have a husband that was the love of my life, but also have an ex husband that is, you know, someone that I loved very much and still do in a platonic way. So I don't really see an issue of why I can't still have some kind of connection with my late husband, even if and when I'm. I'm ready to be in a relationship with someone else. So we can't take away the fact that he was here and he was gone. And if he hadn't passed, he would still be my husband. So I want to be very conscious of people who've been widowed and then, you know, remarry, like, relatively, relatively quickly or, you know, after a while, that it's a tricky balance, I'm sure, but it's not harming me. It's not harming anyone else. So, yeah, I think I would say it's probably a choice, but I agree with you. I'd say he's a guide. Now.

[Lacy]

I say this and not to freak you out, because he's still very present. He's in the room now with me, and I can't hear what he's saying, but I can feel what he's trying to. Why he's here with, like. It makes me want to cry that he's here because of. I don't know why. I feel like I'm shaking when you shared his passing, but, like, he's very much in the room and he's not talking to me, but what he's doing, he's like.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

He's.

[Lacy]

Look at. I know. I don't know why I'm so emotional. He's saying, like, something about this book. It's an energy he's pushing. I know. Look at it. It makes me so emotional. So, yeah, I can almost see what he looks like as well. And I've never seen him before. Okay, so basically, it's why I say he's your guide is because he's. There's something that he's still very much needing you to share. With the world through what you're bringing out right now, it's not like, just spiritual. There's something that you're going to ignite with people that this book is the opening for that's going to allow, like, a new learning, a new teaching, something greater that's gonna come through. But that I think I really. Beyond love, like, how much he loves you. I think that's why he's still so active and present in your life. So there's something. Yeah. And his energy. I wonder if this is correct. His energy is very. Not stoic, but it's that English energy where he's like. Was he tall?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah.

[Lacy]

Okay. So, yeah, that's his. His presence is, like, tall, but gentle, but stoic. Maybe a little funny. Like a little bit of English humor, you know? Very funn.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Very funny. Yeah.

[Lacy]

Okay. Because that's what's coming through. And he's definitely. What, like, what's the. He's. He's like, right here. He's like, talking, like, with me, over me, through me, to get this message through. It's funny because whether I want it to be open or not, he's like, you're gonna hear this because there's something about this conversation that's gonna basically like something about this project and what's coming through. Hold on, let me listen. You're going to open up a new thought process, a new bridge, a new connection that many people would have not had access to if it wasn't coming through you specifically. And so, yeah, there's something here where he's really needing you to know that. That's why he's very present in your life still right now. He loves you. He loves you so much. So it's not just like a total love needing to be with you connection, but there's something that you guys are doing in partnership, career wise, that's going to be a whole new opening and a whole new level for people. So that's what he's here to say. He's like, right here.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Wow. I'll stop with that. So a. I've already had that thought. I've already had that. I had to write this book for that reason, to make his. His passing, like, mean something and make a difference. But also right at the beginning of recording, when you said, I don't open myself up to that anymore, the first thought that came into my head was, but I want you to do it for me. But I didn't say it because I wouldn't put that on you. But I absolutely immediately thought I Want you to. Yeah. Wow.

[Jessica]

I had to tell you guys, too. When I was getting ready for the interview, I had just finished the last closing chapter of the audiobook, and I could feel kind of his presence.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Maybe.

[Jessica]

I don't know. I'm not a medium. I don't have lazy skills at all. But I, like, felt. And I was like, okay, who knows if this is in my imagination, but I'm just gonna talk to him. And I was like, robin, I've heard amazing things about you. Like, I know how much you've impacted Hara's life. If you can send her an unmistakable sign today, either during our recording or afterwards, only send it if it can come through with love and it doesn't scare her or upset her. You know her better than me. But if, like, she can take this and, like, this helps, Please come through today when we're all connected. And, Lacey, when your thing started glitching, I was like, holy. I think he's gonna come through.

[Lacy]

Oh, my God, you guys. You guys are witches. You got me. You got me.

[Jessica]

We so appreciate you, Lacy, being the.

[Lacy]

The channel. Yes.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Thank you.

[Lacy]

He has a very, very, very beautiful energy. From what I'm sensing, his presence still seems very. Even though I've never seen him, it seems very much like what he was when he was alive, potentially. You'll have to now send me a photo and a video because I really want to see him more vividly. But he seems still so much of what he was when he was alive. So that's what. Also, even though I don't really work with the spirit realm much, is that he's definitely crossed over, but the feeling of him is he very much has work to do with you right now still. So that's why he's not distanced, like, you know. So that's the last thing I want to say when I close on him. He's a very beautiful spirit that still feels very much alive. He feels very close to the veil still, because he has work he's doing with you, not just as a lover, but very much as a professional.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah.

[Lacy]

And that's it.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Thank you so much.

[Lacy]

A big question I have for you, Dr. Tara, is in your research in the animal realm, any studies that have been done on animals, Because I find that cats and dogs, my cats and dogs very much see spirits all the time. When you were talking about that interesting genetic evolution, I do wonder if more animals genetically naturally have that predisposition and it has not left them in an effort to be able to survive.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah. So let's start off with the hardest science around that. So cats and dogs have a much more sensitive sense of smell than we do, to the point that they can smell impending death. So in care homes, cats and dogs that live there will often go and sit by somebody who's about to die. And this makes complete sense scientifically because as you are dying, your cells die off in a certain order and that releases a particular odor that we're not able to smell, most of us, but dogs and cats can smell. So obviously there are other senses that animals have that we don't have, like echolocation for bats and sonar for dolphins and magneto reception for birds that migrate around the world. But there are some people that have heightened senses. So for example, there's a nurse called Joy Milner who smelt her husband's Parkinson's disease years before he was going to be diagnosed. And that's led to a new swab test that can be used to diagnose Parkinson's disease earlier. So maybe there are some people that could have super senses. And then with the animal thing, like if we go back to ancient wisdom, these cultures that we've referenced already would consider a soul or spirit that getting reincarnated. It's not because we're human. It doesn't mean we're always going to be human. If we get reincarnated, we could be an animal. So the essence of the spirit stays the same, but the, the body that you inhabit, it could be human or animal. So, you know, there's the science side and, and the more spiritual side.

[Jessica]

You've heard us talk about our pathway membership, but what actually is it? It is an all access membership where you can get every single workshop that we've ever created. All of our deep imaginings, which are our reprogramming audios to help you manifest. You can access it on the desktop or in the TBM app on your phone directly. We of course have our foundational workshops, such as our how to manifest workshop, which takes you through step by step through this neural manifestation process to actually unblock, expand and take align action to connect with your manifestations. Our how to be magnetic workshop, our inner child and shadow workshops. And then of course we have a workshop. If you are in a rut, if you're in a rock bottom, if you're in an up level, perhaps you need to set boundaries. Maybe you want to focus specifically on the block of money or love. It is all in there. And then twice a year, as a community, we gather for our challenges. Our challenges are one of the most effective parts of the process because you get accountability. It is really a handheld experience in how to work through whatever the theme of that year's challenge is. And now to my absolute favorite part of our membership, which I think in and of itself would be worth the entire weight of the membership if we just had this alone. Our Deep Imagining Library. This Library encompasses over 60 neural reprogramming audio tracks. They're self hypnosis tracks that will really support you in any step of this journey. If you're needing calming nervous system regulation, unblocking with a specific test or trigger, going through a difficult time processing a big emotion, or maybe you just want reinforcing how to reinforce those neural pathways of confidence, abundance, self worth, deservingness and connection with your dream life. And not only that, if you go to the app, we just launched Deep Imagining playlists where we're grouping different themes of DIS together. So no matter what you're going through, you have something for you. And we're constantly dropping new playlists as well as brand new Deep Imaginings. And if you need more support in your process, you can go to our brand new video series Channelings with Lacy, where she touches on the exact energetics that are going on right now in manifestation and how it may apply to your life. So obviously I am a huge fan of this membership. The peace of mind I get from being able to have all the tools I need at my disposal. No matter where I'm at with my life, if shit's hitting the fan, if I'm feeling dysregulated, if I'm needing to come back to my center, if I'm needing to to brainstorm or daydream or connect with what my vision for my future is. Every single tool is in there to support me. And don't just take my word for it. We have thousands of testimonials of people who have had incredible success stories with these tools. So take the guesswork out of your manifestation process and get real tools that are going to give you real results. For podcast listeners only, you can use code expanded all caps E x P A N D e D for 20% off your first month of the pathway. Join now and have your best year yet.

[Lacy]

So that leads into the next question that you had brought up, Jessica, earlier in the conversation that we were going to get into. Let's talk about all of the senses beyond. I know of eight of them in the clairvoyant world. I mean in the clairvoyant world, the different clairs, what came up in Your research.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

So again, I wanted to stick to the solid science as much as I could because I was obviously also going to go in a direction that was going to be a bit more questionable. And so in the book, I have defined a sense as something where a stimulus affects a receptor, to have a response release a chemical usually. And so if it's not doing that, then it's not counted as a sense. So for example, although a lot of people call intuition the sixth sense, physiologically it's not a sense in that respect of the word. So I was super strict when I first started the research. I found this scientific research paper that said humans have 22 to 33 senses. But when I did a full literature review and collated it all, I came up with 34. And that doesn't include the Claire's. I've written about the Claire's separately, but this was purely to say these are the physiological senses that humans have that most of us don't know about. About. I knew about more of them because I'd been to medical school, but I didn't know we had 34. So, for example, taste is subdivided into 5. Sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and umami. But umami was only discovered in the 1980s. And the latest one to be recognized as a sense is the immune system. So basically it's evolving. You know, we're learning more over time about what we're capable of. And although that's obviously very interesting, I was also using it as an analogy to, to say, well, what else are we capable of? For example, clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience, claircognizance. Just because they are seen as more esoteric now, it doesn't mean that at some point in the future they could be classified as senses or at least capabilities that humans can have.

[Jessica]

Did they have studies on, like, have they done brain scans on people when they are communicating through mediumship or when they're receiving signs or anything like that? Because I do wonder if there is more research done, if there is a hormone release or something that happens in the brain simultaneously when that communication. I do remember reading something, I'll have to find the science on it where different parts of the brain's lit up more when there was mediumship or channeling happening. What have you found in that regard?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Three things I can reference here. So one is the Telepathy Tapes podcast, which became very popular whilst I was writing the book. And there has been some criticism of the scientific methods. So I know that they're really working hard to tighten that up and that for season two, whereas season one focused on people on the autism. Autism spectrum. Season two is, is just any people. And so. And I think they are going to like, make the. The research and science behind it more. Even more rigorous. And then two other things. One is that there's something called shared trait vulnerability, which looks at the overlap between creativity and psychopathology, which is mental illness. And basically, there are three factors involved here. Your working memory, your cognitive flexibility, which is how much you can, like, think flexibly and not, you know, not persistent rigid thinking, which is often an issue that is solved by doing the. Your hypnosis. And then the last one is called low latent inhibition. And that is to do with how. How tight the filter is around your mind and your brain. And there's a theory that modern life and the material world makes the brain have to filter down what the mind is capable of. But basically, if you've got a high, if you've got a low working memory, if you're rigid cognitively and you've got low latent inhibition, you can see how that would show as, like, magical thinking and psychosis. But if you've got a strong working memory, you're able to think flexibly, then you can choose to loosen that filter in it and it's not going to make you go crazy. And creativity is a real conduit for opening that up. But so are other forms of altered states of consciousness, like conscious connected breath, work, and of course, plant medicine. So where we probably know the most about how the brain is operating in an altered state is the scans that we see from people who are on several different types of types of plant medicine. And we see that the five HT2A receptors are the ones that are involved in this. So that's serotonin, a specific type of the serotonin receptor. And that there's hyperconnectivity in the brain, which means that, like you said, more parts of the brain are lighting up, but they're also connecting with each other more, so they're not just lighting up kind of separately. And that it's very active in the visual cortex, which is why people often see vision when they're on plant medicine. But I think when it comes to communicating with. With spirits, it can show up differently for different people. So for me, what I was referring to earlier as thought insertion, these thoughts in my head that I knew weren't mine, that's how I would describe clairaudience. I don't hear a voice outside of my head, but I experience A voice in my mind that's not mine. And so, you know, for other people, it could be that different senses are heightened, allowing either clairvoyance, clairsentience, or claircognizance.

[Jessica]

Lacey, how do you experience it? How does it show up for you?

[Lacy]

Just in this moment, when it came. So I could feel him about 10 minutes before I started, you know, opening up to him, and I just was like, oh, wow, he's really here. Because sometimes when spirits are around me, they're all over on the property. They're, you know, they're further away. And he was very close, and he was getting closer and closer. And it was kind of the way when I channel, which I would assume is clair. Cognizant when I'm channeling, because it's just knowing things. I'm not always seeing things. I'm not. It's just like I just know and I feel in my body, this is. Right. This is something I have to say. And so as he was standing close to me, I was seeing a very, very. So this would be clairvoyance in a way. I was seeing. Seeing very. A very gentle silhouette of him and presence. So I could see that he was tall, very, like a very balanced, more. I don't want to say stoic, because stoic can be kind of placid. No, he was just very balanced, very gentle, funny. Like, he was showing me. He was showing me, you don't need to be afraid. That's probably the bigger thing that turns my. I turn myself off a lot from spirits because I get. Every entity wants to come through because I shine a bright light. And so he was really showing me. No, no, no, it's okay. And so the way he was communicating to me felt a little bit clear, cognizant, because he was showing me that you needed to hear. You guys are still working professionally together again. And, like, really making that a thing. The same way I received manifestation channeling, which is very claircognizant. So in a way, through that whole experience, there was clairvoyance happening. Claircognizance. I wasn't hearing anything. Like, I wasn't hearing words in my mind or thoughts in my mind. I was more so knowing things in my mind. I was just like, okay, I see. I like knowing. Knowing. Knowing something. So I would say, claire, cognizance and clairvoyance in that moment. But I don't. And I will say I'm a very, very, very lazy psychic. Very. I don't work on it at all.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

I think you're clairsentient too though, because you said you felt something in your body.

[Lacy]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Okay, so talk about these other pillars, because one question we get asked all the time is how do I listen to my pings? How do I receive these messages? And even if you're not necessarily open or you have a loved one that passed that you're wanting to connect with signs for I get signs. What I perceive them as signs from the universe that I'm on the right direction or I'm moving in this, or this is where I should be guided. You know, I kind of see it in that lane, the way we, the way we view pings. So talk about some of these other things that really do impact our ability, like stress, like gut health, like connecting with nature and art and creativity.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah. So this field of study called neuro aesthetics is about the importance of art and beauty and culture, cultural activities and nature. So we've existed in the palette of nature since the beginning of humanity. So it's very aesthetically pleasing for us and positive aspects of it can give us a lot of safety. Obviously we evolved to avoid the saber toothed tiger, but for example, when we hear birdsong, our blood pressure and our cortisol levels go down because birds don't sing when predators are around. So in a really primal way, we still recall that that means safety for us out on the land. So yeah, I basically split it into chapters on connecting with your tribe and your community, like, like really like we did in the past. Connecting with nature, connecting with the arts, and connecting with your senses, as we've discussed. But I think the one that's a real game changer here for pings particularly, is that I looked at the research around how trauma is stored in the body, mostly from Bessel van der Kolk. The body keeps the score. So there's a new hypothesis called the serotonin hypothesis. Now I mentioned serotonin in the brain and most of us are still associate that with mood. But actually at least 95% of serotonin is produced in the gut and it can't cross the blood brain barrier. So it has no impact on mood whatsoever. It has a lot of other functions in the body. But the one that's really interesting in terms of this, how trauma is stored in the muscles and the fascia, is that serotonin actually comes from the words serum and tone. So serum is your blood production, your plasma, and tone is the action that serotonin has on your capillaries to restrict or dilate them, which changes the amount of Oxygen and nutrients that go into your tissues. So when people are stressed and they've got high levels of cortisol, obviously it changes your posture. So, you know, if you're stressed, your postures change. But it also actually has an action on the cells and the tissues and the muscles, muscles in the fascia, which they call bracing patterns in trauma research. But equally, intuition is what I call hidden wisdom. It's. It's life lessons that you've picked up throughout life, but you don't recall everything you've ever experienced. And just like PTSD isn't only held in the PTSD circuits of the brain, like the amygdala and the hippocampus, it's also held in the body. What I really found when I lost my way and felt like, you know, I'd lost my superpower of intuition mission was that physicality was a huge way to not just bring it back, but take it to the next level. And if you think about it, when we lived in tribal times or in Paleolithic times, we didn't have any spare resources for fun. We had. All of our resources had to go into survival and reproduction, basically food, shelter, and, you know, keeping the tribe safe and having babies. But why did we hum, chant, drum, dance, saying, why did we make cave paintings? And even with cave paintings, we think that art as part of humanity started about 40,000 years ago. But 20,000 years before that, in southern Africa, they were carving into ostrich eggshells. Another 50,000 years before that, they were making necklaces out of shells and wearing them. They were using ochre from the land and rubbing it onto their faces and their bodies to adorn themselves, ourselves. 500,000 years ago, we were making tools that were more symmetrical and beautiful than they had to be to complete their task. Showing that actually art and beauty are essential to our survival. And that physicality was a way that helped our ancestors to rely on their instincts. You know, you had to be able to read the land. If you looked at a cloud formation, that could tell you that rain's coming, or it could be a message from your ancestors. So reading nature was interpreted in both ways because they were operating with their minds and their bodies. We're now all in our heads, overthinking, riddled with anxiety and mental illness. And we're so cut off from our bodies. And if you think about, you know, one of the ways that the first Americans were, their spirit was broken, was displacing them from their land and their. Their food sources, the animals and food sources that they were used to. And in the modern world, most people have cut themselves off from nature to their own detriment.

[Jessica]

I mean, the other thing it makes me think about, too, is, you know, Lacy, you've been talking about this a lot, how right now it feels like we're in such a precipice of change, and we have the ability to move things in a direction that is more connected with the land, that's more connected with some of these ancient traditions that really do help us, nourish us, and connect us with so much more and then beyond. Dr. Tara, with your work and your personal experience and everything that you're seeing happening right now, like, what is the paradigm shift that we're kind of being invited to get curious about? So many people think we're on Earth, and then depending upon your religious beliefs, there's a heaven or a hell, or you do this or you reincarnate. Like. Like, as a society, where do you feel like it's. It's kind of like opening a door of, like. But what if it's this? What are you positing here, too?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah. So, I mean, I think, you know, you guys have been doing this amazing work for so long. It took a crisis like the pandemic to make people turn to that work even more, which is obviously when we started working together. It took a personal crisis for me to question things and turn to that even more. And for me, the question is about the nature of consciousness. I do not believe that everything we think we know about how the mind and the psyche and the soul works, what we think we know now, is it. My sort of, like, question that I've been asking people is, do you ever think about a day in the life of Homo erectus, and are we so arrogant that we actually think we're the last type of human that's ever going to exist? And we know more than every type of humans ever known in history. I think these are the sorts of questions that we need to be asking each other. Obviously, as a neuroscientist, dentist, and former psychiatrist, I'm particularly interested in. In the mind. But, you know, this physicality aspect, for example, opens up so much in terms of the rising popularity of breath work and plant medicine. Yeah. So I. You know, for me, it was like, what. What more is my mind capable of? And. And it started specifically with the journey of communicating with Robin, but. But now it's like, it's greater than that. I just think we're. I've always said we're capable of more than we realize, but that was more in a brain point of. Of view. But now I think it's in a mind gut soul collective, you know, humanity. Yeah. I mean, I was honestly thinking about retiring and moving back to the countryside, but I feel like it's such an exciting time to be in this field.

[Jessica]

I mean, we. We truly need you to help us understand how to make sense of so much that's coming up, you know, because you have the popularity of something like the telepathy tapes. But then. And I'll talk to friends from home. Like, I look at all my friends who have many different beliefs. Some of them are like 100%. I believe in everything they're saying. And then some people are like, eh, I can debunk it because xyz. And it's like, oh, wow. Like, I think we're so intuitive and want to be connected to nature and art and like, can see the value in that. But so much of society is totally disconnected. Wouldn't even entertain the thought. And I think the science is one of the things that. That can really help them see it, feel it. Because I believe that connection can really deepen our. Our living experience. You know, it really connects us back to love, back to ourselves, all the things. And it enriches our lives in so many ways that we just don't even know we're looking outside of ourselves for all these things. And it's like we have so much right at our fingertips and in our senses. Yeah.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

And I think there's some, like, choice points as well. A friend of mine in Cape Town who's a Reiki healer said people have several exit points in their life. And I was like, well, why would Robin have left me now? And she said, ask him. And exactly when I had that conversation with him, Lacy, he basically said, there's something that you still need to do. Which is why I had to leave. Because you wouldn't have done it if I stayed.

[Lacy]

I didn't want to say that, Tara, because I would never say that. But that's what he was saying. That's exactly it. Like, there's something about that. He had to transition for you to create something even bigger in the world. And I would never tell you that if. Because I would never want to hurt you. You know what I mean? I would never share that.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

No, I know, I know, I know, I know. You've confirmed it for me, actually, because I'd already had that conversation. I totally could have become very bitter and felt like life was unfair to me for the rest of my Life. And I actually totally get why some people who've been bereaved would go down that path. But I made a very conscious choice that I wanted to return to love, to abundance, to gratitude, and particularly my. You know, I do a new neuroplasticity thing every year. Well, the one in this past year was noticing beauty. And I noticed very quickly that how many times a day I was saying, isn't that so pretty? Isn't that so beautiful? Oh, look at that. And I was like, wow, this has changed my brain really quickly. It's like. Like gratitude, practice, but next level. And I think the sort of understanding how physicality we've I'm sure, discussed before, that your gut health contributes to, like, not having brain fog and accessing your intuition. There's more of that in this book than there was in my last one. But that isn't the sort of newest thing to me. This idea of why humans indulged in art when they didn't have spare resources. That's fascinating to me. There's a statistic that shows that people who indulge in the arts, like, every two months have a 31% lower chance of dying. And people who only indulge in the arts twice a year have a 14% lower chance of dying. So it's like, it's crucial to humanity. I just think there are so many things like that that we haven't explored yet. And I've obviously gone on a massive journey of exploration to write this book, but I'm sure there's. There's more that I haven't even thought about yet.

[Lacy]

I think it's so important what you're saying in this very moment, Tara, about beauty. And I really hope that people hear the emphasis of that there's a real message to dim your light, that if my light's bright. And I think one of the greatest things that definitely contributes to a brighter light is beauty and indulging in beauty. And I don't mean vanity, which I think that's a form of adornment. But, like, what you're talking about, the beauty of nature, the beauty of art, the beauty of. I mean, I find beauty and In a pattern of cloth, like, it's really looking towards beauty. And it's fascinating because I would say in this arc that I'm personally in, it's a lot of going analog, the more authentic beauty of what really anchors our center of happiness. And I feel that if. If people can start to access that, that is one's access point to starting to feel into what you're talking about, Dr. Tara, our greater potential, not only in humanity, which is so true, but individually, our superpowers. That is such a point of access. So, yeah, I just really want to harp on the beauty piece. Not a lot of people have even a direction point of. Where do I start? It's overwhelming, all that tangent to say, are you able to leave us off, Dr. Tara, on how you. When you said this year for you was about beauty and witnessing beauty, what did that practice look like? Because it's usually it's learning a new language for you. So, like, how did you make that commitment?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah, well, I mean, the research from Neuro aesthetics was so compelling that I thought, okay, I've got to do this. And you know, I love flowers and I love the ballet and I love my friends. And so I just started acknowledging those things even more. Like, I always feel very emotional when I go to the ballet and I, you know, absolutely love it. And I'm very lucky that I'm friends with some of the principal dancers of the Royal Ballet. So I get to go backstage and I, you know, But I just like appreciate that so much. But it's more what it started, really, with the autumn leaves and the spring blossoms. I mean, I fell in love with those like never before. And I just, I couldn't help commenting on it. I would like stop and like touch the flowers, smell the flowers. You know, I even brought in, like, if I see impressive architecture or something that I'll acknowledge that I've brought a lot of nature, even more nature into my home. So plants, flowers. I've got this gadget at the moment which is a motion sensitive gadget. When I walk past it, it releases two minutes of nature sounds.

[Lacy]

Yeah.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

And I think it is, you know, it's like adorning yourself and. And sort of just, you know, if I notice like a beautiful baby, I'll kind of like acknowledge that more than I would have before as well. So it's just everything. It's. But it's. It's not becoming habituated and just putting your head down and rushing through life. It's looking around and actually appreciating how beautiful life is.

[Lacy]

I love that.

[Jessica]

So good. Tara, thank you so much. I mean, thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing this and being open and sharing this story with Robin and also for transforming that into a beautiful roadmap guide for so many people. I mean, this book is incredible. Get it on. Hardcover audiobook. All the things you narrate it yourself. I love listening to your voice. It's amazing. Yeah, it really is such an incredible book. And really, I even had a little note while I was reading it of like, okay, these are the new practices I need to put into place. Like, even pigeon pose. I'm like, we're releasing the tension in these hips. It's happening. And just the science behind all of that. So thank you. Where can people find it, connect with you, and continue on to your next adventure?

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Thank you. Well, I'm most active on Instagram, and there are links in my bio to all the different places that you can buy the book in the US and the UK and around the world. Yeah, I think that's it, really. Also just wanted to say, like, thank you for your friendship and support in the last almost four years now. And, Lacy, thank you so much that you did let him come in. That really, That's a great. A gift that I'll never be able to repay you.

[Lacy]

Oh, well, we were going to send you off to bed. I hope you can sleep tonight. Yeah, I know you need to downregulate after that.

[Dr. Tara Swart]

Yeah, totally, Totally. Oh, thank you so much.