Podcast Summary: Experts of Experience Episode: How Empathy Mapping Replaced 90% of Cisco’s Marketing Output
Release Date: May 14, 2025
Presented by: Salesforce Customer Success
Host: Lacy Peace
Guest: Ben Taylor, Director of Revenue Marketing and Customer Journeys at Cisco

Introduction

In this insightful episode of Experts of Experience, host Lacy Peace engages in a compelling conversation with Ben Taylor, Cisco’s Director of Revenue Marketing and Customer Journeys. Together, they explore the transformative impact of empathy mapping on Cisco's marketing strategy, Ben’s sharp critique of traditional content marketing, and the integration of design thinking within marketing teams to enhance customer experience (CX).

The Decline of Content Marketing

Ben Taylor opens the discussion with a bold statement about the inefficacy of content marketing:

"Content marketing is dead. It is a driver of a waste of time. Success with content marketing is a happy accident."
[00:05]

Ben argues that the traditional focus on producing vast amounts of content often results in disengaged audiences and minimal impact on pipeline and bookings. At Cisco, he spearheaded a significant reduction in content output, halting 80-90% of prior content production efforts to refocus on understanding customer needs.

Shifting Focus to Empathy and Customer Insight

Transitioning away from excessive content creation, Ben emphasizes the importance of empathy in marketing:

"Put yourself in their shoes. Do you care about this? Humans make decisions emotionally. We make decisions based on storytelling and narrative."
[00:40]

Ben introduced empathy mapping to align marketing strategies closely with customer emotions and needs. This shift led Cisco to spend substantial time in understanding customer perspectives rather than merely producing content.

Gaining Leadership Buy-In

One of the critical challenges Ben faced was convincing leadership to embrace a "less is more" approach. He addresses this by highlighting the disconnect between content volume and business outcomes:

"More volume doesn't equal more bookings, more pipeline."
[00:31]

Ben successfully demonstrated to leadership that focusing on high-quality, empathetic engagements resulted in significant growth, thereby securing their support for the new strategy.

Integrating Design Thinking in Marketing

Ben delves into the application of design thinking within Cisco’s marketing teams, outlining a structured approach to empathy mapping and customer journey mapping:

"Design thinking, on empathy, map on the actual experiential part of customer experience, which is do less. Reach folks where it matters."
[14:08]

By incorporating design thinking workshops and empathy mapping into their agile marketing processes, Cisco ensures that every piece of content is purpose-driven and resonates with the target audience's current needs and emotions.

Collaboration Across Departments

A significant part of Ben’s strategy involves fostering collaboration between marketing and other departments such as sales enablement, customer success, and renewal teams. This cross-functional approach ensures a seamless and unified customer experience throughout the entire lifecycle.

"We're along the customer journey, full lifecycle... from top of funnel to renewal. It needs to connect those so that on its surface is not a hard thing for people to consume and say, oh, that makes sense."
[68:34]

Ben emphasizes that empathizing with different teams within the organization enhances the overall customer experience by aligning messaging and engagement strategies.

The Role of AI in Customer Experience

Addressing the prevalent topic of AI, Ben shares his cautious perspective on integrating AI tools like GPT and Claude into marketing:

"I don't believe that AI can truly empathize. The real risk is, I don't want people to know they're talking to AI."
[32:52]

While acknowledging AI's utility in data analysis and telemetry, Ben contends that genuine empathy in customer interactions remains a human-driven endeavor. He stresses the importance of AI focusing on problem-solving rather than mimicking emotional responses.

Measuring Success: Beyond Traditional Metrics

Ben explains Cisco’s pivot from traditional content consumption metrics to more outcome-focused measurements:

"We've deprioritized consumption metrics like page views, opens, click rate... We focus more on pipeline and bookings."
[57:27]

By aligning marketing efforts with business-centric metrics, Cisco ensures that their strategies directly contribute to measurable business growth rather than just content engagement.

Team Building and Hiring for Empathy

In discussing team dynamics, Ben highlights the significance of hiring individuals with empathy and cultural fit over purely technical skills:

"I lean into vibe. Pedigree, background, experience, they all matter. But you can teach skills, you can teach mechanisms."
[47:47]

Ben prioritizes candidates who can empathize and think from the customer’s perspective, fostering a team culture that naturally aligns with Cisco’s empathetic marketing approach.

Lightning Round: Relevant or Ridiculous

To conclude the substantive discussion, Ben participates in a lighthearted lightning round with hosts Lacy Peace and Rose Shocker, evaluating various marketing trends as "Relevant" or "Ridiculous." This segment underscores the importance of discernment in adopting new marketing trends, emphasizing the value of authenticity and relevance over mere popularity.

Personal Insights and Conclusion

Ben shares his personal motivations for championing empathy in marketing, emphasizing the fulfillment derived from creating meaningful customer interactions:

"I'm happier at work and happier in life when I'm doing things that make people feel better or helping solve problems."
[46:40]

He reflects on his success at Cisco, noting a significant growth in pipeline and bookings attributed to the empathetic, customer-centric approach. Ben concludes by reiterating the importance of maintaining empathy across all customer touchpoints and fostering a unified, collaborative internal environment to sustain long-term success.

Notable Quotes

• Ben Taylor: "Content marketing is dead. It is a driver of a waste of time. Success with content marketing is a happy accident."
  [00:05]

• Ben Taylor: "More volume doesn't equal more bookings, more pipeline."
  [00:31]

• Ben Taylor: "I don't believe that AI can truly empathize. The real risk is, I don't want people to know they're talking to AI."
  [32:52]

• Ben Taylor: "I lean into vibe. Pedigree, background, experience, they all matter. But you can teach skills, you can teach mechanisms."
  [47:47]

• Ben Taylor: "I'm happier at work and happier in life when I'm doing things that make people feel better or helping solve problems."
  [46:40]

Conclusion

This episode of Experts of Experience offers a deep dive into the critical shift from traditional content marketing to an empathetic, customer-centric approach within large organizations like Cisco. Ben Taylor's experiences and insights provide valuable lessons on aligning marketing strategies with genuine customer needs, fostering cross-departmental collaboration, and measuring success through meaningful business metrics. By prioritizing empathy and thoughtful engagement, Ben demonstrates how organizations can not only enhance customer experience but also drive substantial business growth.