Experts of Experience Podcast Summary

Episode: Why "Feel First" Leaders Outperform Everyone Else
Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Lacey Peace (Mission.org)
Guest: Matt Marcotte, author of Built on Belief and founder of M2 Collaborative
Presented by: Salesforce Customer Success

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into why "feel first" leadership outperforms traditional approaches and is core to excellent customer and employee experience (CX and EX). Lacey Peace and guest Matt Marcotte explore the neurological, emotional, and operational underpinnings of why emotions and belief—not just rational data—drive human behavior and organizational success. Matt unpacks his "Heart, Head, Hands" model for building, scaling, and sustaining belief-driven workplaces that translate into memorable customer experiences. They also critically explore the role of AI, authenticity, and the future of physical and digital experiences.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Science: Humans Feel First, Think Second, Act Third

[00:00; 09:04]

• Emotional Decision-Making:
  • “We're wired to feel first, think second and act third. The part of your brain that feels moves faster than the part of your brain that thinks.” – Matt [00:00]
  • Emotional risk aversion shapes behaviors in profound ways—even within ostensibly ‘rational’ economic models. [03:03]
• Internal Experience Reflects Out:
  • "You cannot give what you've never received… if you don't actually create them internally, people can't reflect what they've never seen." – Matt [00:00]

2. Why Traditional, Data-Driven Leadership Often Misses the Mark

[11:04; 14:04]

• Startups Get This Right—at First:
  • The early “heart” (belief and purpose) behind startups gets diluted as they scale, replaced by metric- and deck-driven rationalization. [11:04–11:50]
• Metrics Replace Meaning:
  • "You end up actually leading to objectives, not leading to purpose." – Matt [12:41]
  • Hiring “professional management” often introduces conflicting beliefs unless carefully aligned. [11:50–14:04]

3. Operationalizing Belief: Heart, Head, Hands

[08:38; 21:43]

• The Framework:
  • "Heart, Head, Hands" sequence mirrors how humans process the world—start with emotional buy-in (heart), move to understanding (head), then action (hands).
• The Importance of Definition and Alignment:
  • “Defining what those words mean and what they don’t mean in context of your brand, your company, or whatever it might be, is critically important.” – Matt [14:19]
  • Most companies fail by not aligning new hires’ beliefs with foundational brand values. [14:19]
• The 3 Cs for Leadership Teams:
  • Clarity: Define the ideal vision (heart)
  • Curiosity: Explore where you are now (head)
  • Connection: Empower people to co-create the future (hands)

    “Clarity, curiosity, and connection.” – Matt [16:37]

4. Culture: The Internal-External CX Link

[21:43; 27:36]

• Internal Before External:
  • "You cannot give what you've never received… if you want people to deliver an experience… and you don’t actually create them internally, people can't reflect what they've never seen.” – Matt [00:00; repeated at 21:43]
• Employee and Customer Stories:
  • Lacey and Matt share examples from Starbucks, Lowe’s, and even positive experiences at airport retailers to illustrate how a strong internal culture radiates outward, shaping customer loyalty and brand reputation.

    “When you walk into a company or a big-name brand store, you can immediately feel like, oh, these people are all bought into this… you want to buy from them.” – Lacey [24:11]

5. Authenticity, Integrity, and Long-Term Thinking

[31:04; 35:54]

• Alignment of Words & Actions:
  • "How you act, your behaviors are always actual proof of what you really believe.” – Matt [32:21]
• Patagonia as Proof:
  • Patagonia’s “Don’t buy this jacket” campaign worked because their values and actions aligned, boosting trust and long-term participation. [32:22–33:27]
• Short-term Metrics vs. Legacy Brands:
  • “Do I just want to sprint for some cash in the short term? And then you have a really hollow company with a lack of belief or do you want to build something for the long term that has some other core mission?” – Lacey [33:27]

6. AI, Technology, and the Human Edge

[38:10; 47:12]

• AI as Copilot, Not Creator of Meaning:
  • “AI is great with efficiency and great as a copilot... The challenge is when it replaces the experience... people are really resonating more with imperfection.” – Matt [38:53]
• The Desire for Imperfection:
  • “People want soul. We want that ability to say, oh, I see you, I feel you, I connect with you...” – Matt [40:57]
• AI Aggregates to the Middle:
  • AI-generated outputs tend toward “sea of sameness and commoditization of narrative.” – Matt [42:09]
• Outsourcing Belief Is Dangerous:
  • “I really dislike this idea of not just businesses, but people outsourcing belief.” – Lacey [42:41]
• Importance of Time and Reflection:
  • “If we treat meaning or purpose or clarity as a task, we're dead in the water... The walk in the woods, the... time [to be present and think]... that's where you actually form what you're talking about.” – Matt [44:24]

7. Lightning Round – Memorable Takeaways

[50:39; 53:38]

• Experience Changer:
  • “Working directly with people—the human capital side—showed me that success comes from empowering teams, not just achieving my own goals.” – Matt [51:02]
• Remote, Office or Hybrid?
  • “Hybrid, with intentional and deliberate reasons for being together.” – Matt [51:37]
• Skill for the Next Generation:
  • “The ability to talk to strangers. Building connections and having confidence to get to know people is so important.” – Matt [51:59]
• Post-AI Trend:
  • “Return to physical spaces, community, and connection.” – Matt [52:21]
• Book Plug:
  • Built on Belief: Why Cultures of Commitment Are the Competitive Advantage on Amazon.
  • Contact: mattmarcotte.com, m2collaborative.com [53:18]

Notable Quotes by Timestamp

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 00:00 | Matt | “We're wired to feel first, think second and act third. The part of your brain that feels moves faster than the part of your brain that thinks.” | | 12:41 | Matt | “You end up actually leading to objectives, not leading to purpose.” | | 14:19 | Matt | “Defining what those words mean and what they don’t mean in context... is critically important.” | | 16:37 | Matt | “Clarity, curiosity, and connection.” | | 21:43 | Matt | “You cannot give what you've never received. If you want people to deliver an experience... they can't reflect what they've never seen.” | | 24:11 | Lacey | “When you walk into a... big-name brand store, you can immediately feel like, oh, these people are all bought into this… you want to buy from them.” | | 32:21 | Matt | “How you act, your behaviors are always actual proof of what you really believe.” | | 33:27 | Lacey | “Do I just want to sprint for some cash… or do you want to build something for the long term that has some other core mission?” | | 38:53 | Matt | “AI is great with efficiency and great as a copilot… the challenge is when it replaces the experience.” | | 40:57 | Matt | “People want soul. We want that ability to say, oh, I see you, I feel you, I connect with you…” | | 44:24 | Matt | “If we treat meaning or purpose or clarity as a task, we're dead in the water… presence and being still… that’s the real work.” | | 51:59 | Matt | “The ability to talk to strangers. Building connections and having confidence to get to know people is so important.” | | 52:21 | Matt | “Return to physical spaces, community, and connection.” |

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction, Science of Emotion: [00:00–01:30]
• Matt’s Career Journey & Consumer Anthropology: [02:59–07:17]
• Scaling Culture and Operationalizing Belief: [07:59–14:04]
• Heart, Head, Hands Framework Explained: [08:38–11:04]
• 3 Cs and Leadership Alignment: [16:37–18:38]
• Linking Employee and Customer Experience: [21:43–27:36]
• Authenticity, Patagonia, and Brand Examples: [31:04–35:54]
• AI vs. Human Touch: [38:10–47:12]
• Building Confidence Through Reflection: [47:29–48:08]
• Lightning Round & Takeaways: [50:39–53:38]

Tone & Style Highlights

• Conversational, insightful, and candid: Matt’s language is direct but rich in real-world examples, analogies, and humor (e.g., “Happy cows make happy cheese” [21:43]).
• Nuanced and actionable: Emphasis on both organizational and personal transformation; practical advice for leaders at all scales.
• Cautious optimism about technology: Clear-eyed about AI’s strengths, but advocates for human uniqueness and long-term thinking.

Summary Takeaway

Belief-driven leadership is not “soft”—it is neurologically, emotionally, and commercially powerful. Companies that invest in culture and internal alignment from the inside out outperform those led by metrics alone. While AI and technological efficiency matter, true customer and employee loyalty stem from authenticity, emotional resonance, and the courage to lead (and live) with heart first.

For more:

• Built on Belief by Matt Marcotte (Amazon)
• mattmarcotte.com
• m2collaborative.com