Extremely American: BONUS Onward Christian Soldiers – The Christian Case Against Christian Nationalism

Release Date: August 21, 2024 | Host: Heath Druzen | NPR

Introduction

In the bonus episode of Season 2 of Extremely American, NPR host Heath Druzen delves into the intricate and controversial subject of Christian nationalism. Titled “Onward Christian Soldiers: The Christian Case Against Christian Nationalism,” this episode brings together a panel of Christian leaders who oppose the rising movement of Christian nationalism in the United States. Through personal narratives, theological debates, and critical analysis, the episode explores how Christian nationalism threatens the foundational principles of American democracy and the inclusive tenets of Christianity.

Panel Introduction

Heath Druzen introduces the panelists who bring diverse perspectives and experiences to the discussion:

• Reverend Ben Kramer: A pastor with over two decades in ministry, Reverend Kramer grew up in a conservative evangelical family and is an active writer on the subject of Christian nationalism through his newsletter, Into the Gray.

• Reverend Angela Denker: An ELCA Lutheran pastor and journalist, Reverend Denker authored Red State Christians, which won the 2019 Silver Forward Indies Award, and is working on her upcoming book, Disciples of White: The Radicalization of American Boyhood.

• Dr. Owen Stran: Provost of Grace Bible Theological Seminary in Arkansas and a conservative Baptist, Dr. Stran has authored books such as The War on Men and In Christianity and Wokeness.

Defining Christian Nationalism

Reverend Ben Kramer sets the stage by defining Christian nationalism:

“Christian nationalism can come in many forms, but the basic idea behind the movement is that America should be a theocracy ruled by Christian principles.” ([00:25])

He elaborates on how the movement seeks to dismantle the separation of church and state, impose severe restrictions on marginalized groups, and promote the dominance of Christian men in government.

Personal Narratives and Experiences

Reverend Angela Denker shares her personal journey and concerns:

“Part of my particular calling to speak against this movement comes from the fact that I am of German Lutheran heritage. And I see many unfortunate parallels between the embrace of a nationalist Christianity here in America and the ways in which German Nazis and German Christians embraced Nazism.” ([02:35])

Her insights highlight the historical dangers of intertwining religion with nationalist ideologies, emphasizing the resultant violence against minorities.

Dr. Owen Stran provides a poignant personal account:

“I was reloading shotgun shells next to canned foods, preparing for the end of the world when I was seven.” ([05:38])

Growing up in a Christian nationalist movement in rural Idaho, Dr. Stran discusses the deceptive nature of extremists appearing as ordinary community members and the profound impact of such an upbringing on his theology and worldview.

Theological Concerns

Dr. Owen Stran articulates his theological objections:

“I fundamentally do have a fair bit of agreement with a bunch of folks who would identify as Christian nationalists. [...] But I'm concerned that if you're not careful, you can subtly pervert the nature of the gospel and thus the mission of the church.” ([06:16])

He warns against conflating the mission of the church with political power, stressing that the true essence of the Gospel focuses on salvation and fellowship with God rather than national dominance.

Reverend Ben Kramer further explores these theological tensions:

“You can make the message of the Bible about reclaiming America or making America formally Christian. And then there's this mass movement and that leads to the nation going Christian.” ([07:00])

He emphasizes the loss of the church’s prophetic identity to hold power accountable, especially towards the vulnerable and marginalized.

The Role of White Supremacy and Kinism

Reverend Angela Denker addresses the intersection of Christian nationalism and white supremacy:

“You cannot separate this movement from the theology of glory around white Christians in this country.” ([19:24])

She draws parallels between historical and contemporary movements, underscoring the implicit desire to return to pre-Civil Rights America, thereby limiting rights to non-white male Christians.

Dr. Owen Stran discusses Kinism and its implications:

“Kinism means that you have a moral duty to perpetuate your ethnicity or your tribe. [...] If you play kinist games, you win kinist prizes.” ([21:40])

He critiques the notion that Christians should marry within their cultural or ethnic groups, labeling it as unbiblical and harmful.

Impact on the Conservative Christian Community

Dr. Owen Stran examines how Christian nationalism affects the broader conservative Christian community:

“A lot of pastors and public leaders in the Christian church just aren't saying anything. [...] That has led to really a migration, I think, of folks from a more conservative, evangelical, traditional paradigm toward the Christian nationalist camp.” ([24:13])

He argues that the lack of vocal opposition within traditional conservative circles creates a vacuum that Christian nationalism fills, thereby tarnishing the image of conservative Christians.

Reverend Angela Denker adds:

“It becomes convenient to sort of blame wokeism and look to the other side instead of looking at what is happening within conservative Christianity.” ([27:10])

She calls for introspection within the conservative Christian community to address internal issues that make it susceptible to nationalist influences.

Recommendations: How to Oppose Christian Nationalism

Dr. Owen Stran advocates for pastoral approaches:

“The big problems start with small steps in personal conversations with people. [...] The role of the pastor is numerous. In trying to gain a better historical context, gain a better perspective of where we are within the history of Christianity.” ([31:30])

He emphasizes the importance of dialogue, understanding individual perspectives, and grounding actions in the teachings of the crucified Jesus.

Reverend Angela Denker highlights education and repentance:

“Education is empowering. And I also think that the local church... repentance is such a huge part of Christian tradition.” ([34:43])

She encourages learning from history, fostering a loving and understanding community, and engaging in acts of repentance to move forward constructively.

Dr. Owen Stran concludes with a call to action:

“The solution is actually to love boys and men. [...] It's to help them. It's to train them in the gospel and help them understand that they are depraved by nature.” ([37:08])

He stresses the need to support and guide young men, counteracting the negative influences of both wokeness and Christian nationalism through genuine Christian love and discipleship.

Conclusion

Heath Druzen wraps up the episode by thanking the panelists for their insightful and thought-provoking contributions. The conversation underscores the multifaceted challenges posed by Christian nationalism and emphasizes the necessity for the Christian community to introspect, educate, and engage in meaningful dialogue to uphold the true essence of the Gospel.

Notable Quotes

• Reverend Ben Kramer: “Christian nationalism can come in many forms, but the basic idea behind the movement is that America should be a theocracy ruled by Christian principles.” ([00:25])

• Reverend Angela Denker: “Jesus is not American. And everyone would kind of look at each other and go, oh, shoot. Yeah, I guess we kind of have been thinking that.” ([19:24])

• Dr. Owen Stran: “I was reloading shotgun shells next to canned foods, preparing for the end of the world when I was seven.” ([05:38])

• Dr. Owen Stran: “The solution is actually to love boys and men. It's to help them. It's to train them in the gospel and help them understand that they are depraved by nature.” ([37:08])

Final Thoughts

This bonus episode of Extremely American provides a critical examination of Christian nationalism from within the Christian community. By presenting diverse viewpoints and personal experiences, the panelists offer a comprehensive critique of how the movement distorts Christian theology and threatens democratic values. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the true mission of the church and the importance of maintaining a clear distinction between faith and political power.