Onward Christian Soldiers: Planting Christendom

Summary

Extremely American: Season 2, Episode 7 – Onward Christian Soldiers: Planting Christendom

Overview

In Season 2 of NPR's Extremely American: Onward Christian Soldiers, hosts Heath Druzen and James Dawson delve deep into the intricate web of Christian nationalism in the United States. Specifically, Episode 7, titled Planting Christendom, explores the strategic efforts of influential far-right figures and organizations to reshape American society and governance into a theocratic state. By examining the endeavors of Pastor Michael Foster and the broader network led by Doug Wilson, the episode illuminates how church planting, political infiltration, and educational reforms are orchestrated to advance a Christian nationalist agenda.

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1. Nationwide "Christ is Lord" Billboards Campaign

Heath Druzen sets the stage by highlighting a pervasive marketing campaign that has been visible across more than 50 American cities since mid-2023.

• Heath Druzen [00:55]: "If you drove across the country in the past year, you may have seen one of these signs. A simple, straightforward message, Christ is Lord in stark white letters on a black billboard."

These billboards are part of a concerted effort by Christchurch's publishing arm, Canon Press, to assert the supremacy of Jesus Christ over all aspects of life in America.

• Doug Wilson [01:28]: "For all of life."

The campaign not only disseminates a religious message but also directs viewers to christislord.com, promoting Doug Wilson's book Mere Christendom, which serves as a blueprint for instituting Christian nationalism in the U.S.

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2. East River Church and the Church Planting Strategy

The narrative shifts to Batavia, Ohio, a small town with fewer than 2,000 residents, where Pastor Michael Foster has established East River Church.

• Michael Foster [04:52]: "My name is Michael Foster. I'm the pastor of East River. We're a new church plant and I'm excited to see the interest."

Church planting, a concept rooted in Biblical scripture (1 Corinthians 3:5, 6, 7), involves establishing new congregations to expand the church's spiritual and societal influence. However, in this context, it's a strategic move to embed Christian nationalism into local governance and community structures.

• Heath Druzen [05:48]: "Those national ambitions include creating an explicitly Christian nation. And they strategically plant churches to increase their influence in Batavia."

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3. Influence of Doug Wilson and the Council of Reformed Evangelical Churches

Doug Wilson, a central figure in the Christian nationalist movement, oversees the Council of Reformed Evangelical Churches (CREC), an umbrella organization that now encompasses over 475 churches nationwide and operates in 14 foreign countries.

• Doug Wilson [08:16]: "It's important to emphasize that I do think that I'm influential and I do think I'm a leader in it, but I'm not an emperor."

Wilson emphasizes autonomy for individual pastors while promoting a unified agenda across affiliated churches. This decentralized yet coordinated approach facilitates widespread influence without centralized control.

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4. Michael Foster's Strategic Maneuvers in Batavia, Ohio

Michael Foster exemplifies the archetype of a "Jesus entrepreneur," actively working to expand the Christian nationalist agenda beyond mere spiritual leadership.

• Michael Foster [06:27]: "We chose Batavia because it's a small county seat that we think people have been sleeping on. Claremont county is a pretty important county here in a purplish swing state that is Ohio."

Foster's approach includes:

• Community Engagement: Promoting positive actions like supporting local businesses and improving communal infrastructure to garner goodwill.

  • Michael Foster [07:22]: "Look for ways to improve your community that builds a coalition around the common good."

• Political Infiltration: Encouraging congregation members to run for local government positions to influence policies and zoning laws.

  • Michael Foster [13:08]: "Run for any and all local offices and encourage all like-minded Christian community members to do likewise."

However, his methods sometimes skirt ethical boundaries, as seen in attempts to thwart businesses he deems immoral through manipulation of local zoning laws.

• Michael Foster [13:42]: "Zoning can just keep it out. We just keep losing their applications or whatever. They're pagans. They're wicked. We don't want that in here, right?"

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5. Education as the Battlefield: Classical Christian Education and ACCS

A pivotal element of the Christian nationalist strategy is the control and influence over education, positioning it as the primary battleground for shaping future generations.

• Doug Wilson [18:24]: "We want to treat NSA like a munitions factory."

Wilson's establishment of the Association of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS) has been instrumental in propagating a specific brand of classical Christian education that intertwines rigorous academic standards with evangelical Christian doctrine.

• Doug Wilson [19:32]: "People came from all over the country to learn how to start this kind of school."

These schools emphasize a Eurocentric curriculum, promoting the idea that understanding philosophy, history, and sciences is intrinsically linked to Christian theology.

• Doug Wilson [22:54]: "The official position of the government schools is that the resurrection of Christ is an irrelevant detail in the study of history. And we think it changes everything."

This approach has been both influential and controversial, drawing criticism from educators like Susan Wise Bauer, who argue that Wilson's vision politicizes classical education.

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6. Criticism from Educators: Susan Wise Bauer's Concerns

Susan Wise Bauer, a renowned classical education consultant and co-author of The Well-Trained Mind, voices apprehensions regarding the ACCS's direction under Doug Wilson's leadership.

• Susan Wise Bauer [26:22]: "His overall influence is huge and dangerous."

Bauer contends that Wilson's fusion of classical education with Christian nationalism imposes a restrictive worldview that marginalizes diverse perspectives and fosters divisiveness.

• Susan Wise Bauer [26:45]: "Doug Wilson's take on classical education is important in that. That is one place where he very specifically articulates that if you do not accept the revelation of God through Jesus Christ, you are incapable of understanding and truth."

She warns against conflating classical education with a singular ideological stance, advocating for a more inclusive approach that accommodates various worldviews.

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7. Political Weaponization of Classical Education

The politicization of classical education extends beyond education circles into state politics, notably exemplified by Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida.

• Heath Druzen [28:25]: "Susan specifically mentions Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. He's gone after what he calls woke education and targeted critical race theory."

DeSantis has implemented policies that favor classical Christian education frameworks, such as permitting students to bypass standardized tests like the SAT or GRE in favor of classical assessments. This not only bolsters private Christian schools but also embeds their educational philosophy into public education systems.

• Heath Druzen [29:09]: "DeSantis also signed a bill into law allowing students to skip the SAT or GRE for state college admission."

Such measures indicate a governmental endorsement of classical Christian education, aligning public education policy with the objectives of Christian nationalists.

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8. The Broader Implications and Future Outlook

The episode underscores a significant cultural and ideological struggle within American society, wherein Christian nationalists like Doug Wilson and pastors like Michael Foster are actively reshaping institutions to align with their theocratic vision. The strategic placement of churches, infiltration of local governments, and control over educational narratives present a multifaceted approach to establishing a Christian republic.

• Heath Druzen [30:36]: "I'm actually a Christian... I don't think that classical education should be welded together with this particular view of how God's law should be put into effect in our country."

This internal conflict within the Christian community, between those advocating for a broad, inclusive classical education and those pushing for a theocratic application, indicates a prolonged and evolving battle over America's cultural and political landscape.

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Conclusion

Extremely American: Onward Christian Soldiers – Planting Christendom offers a comprehensive examination of the methods and motivations driving the Christian nationalist movement in the United States. Through detailed exploration of church planting strategies, political infiltration, and educational reforms, the episode paints a nuanced picture of how deeply embedded and strategic efforts are underway to transform American democracy into a theocracy. The contrasting perspectives within the Christian education community further highlight the complexities and potential implications of this ideological shift.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Doug Wilson [01:28]: "For all of life."

• Doug Wilson [02:01]: "We want to turn the world upside down, and you don't turn the world upside down by being nice."

• Michael Foster [06:27]: "Find a community that's a winnable and worthwhile hill."

• Michael Foster [13:42]: "Zoning can just keep it out. We just keep losing their applications or whatever. They're pagans. They're wicked. We don't want that in here, right?"

• Susan Wise Bauer [26:28]: "Doug Wilson's take on classical education is important in that. That is one place where he very specifically articulates that if you do not accept the revelation of God through Jesus Christ, you are incapable of understanding and truth."

• Susan Wise Bauer [28:15]: "Yeah, of course I'm concerned about it. I think it's a false ideology. I think it's an ideology that does not honor God."

These quotes encapsulate the fervent beliefs and strategic intentions fueling the Christian nationalist movement, as well as the internal conflicts and criticisms it faces from within the broader Christian educational community.

Transcript

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[Heath Druzen]

If you drove across the country in the past year, you may have seen one of these signs. A simple, straightforward message, Christ is Lord in stark white letters on a black billboard. From Georgia to California, these billboards have popped up in more than 50 cities. It was part of a nationwide campaign by Christchurch's publishing arm, Canon Press. They are proclaiming that Jesus is king over everything. As Doug Wilson says, all of Christ.

[Doug Wilson]

For all of life.

[Heath Druzen]

And they're proclaiming something they want to be true in America.

[Doug Wilson]

I would want a Christian republic that Christians would be the office holders.

[Heath Druzen]

The billboards were also doing what billboards advertising. There's a little.com after Christ is Lord. If you pull up that link, you get a promotional video. It's for Doug Wilson's book Mere Christendom. It's a 270 page blueprint for installing Christian nationalism in America.

[Doug Wilson]

We want to turn the world upside down, and you don't turn the world upside down by being nice. I believe that we are in this polytheistic, pluralistic moment. And the desperate need of the hour is for our Christian leadership to say Jesus is Lord and there is no other.

[Heath Druzen]

Fewer and fewer Americans are Christians. They may be in the minority by 2070, according to research from Pew. And if you take Doug's view, an even tinier portion represents true Christianity. So the numbers are against them, and Christian nationalists know it. They need to bring more people into the fold, hence national campaigns like Christ is Lord. But they're planting much more than signs, as Doug will tell you.

[Doug Wilson]

We've planted congregations locally and we've planted them far away. We just recently successfully planted a church in Omaha, Nebraska. We've planted churches here in Moscow. We've planted in Spokane and Missoula and Lewiston. So church planting is a big deal.

[Heath Druzen]

Because in their eyes, these churches are the right kind of churches, fundamentalist Protestant churches. I'm Heath Druzen and this is extremely. Onward Christian Soldiers. A story about a small town, a big church, and the people who want to make America a Christian nation. This week, Christian nationalists sow the seeds for that nation. It's a battle for hearts and minds. Episode 7 Planting Christendom so there's this church that opened at the end of 2020. It's called East River Church and it's in Batavia, Ohio, near Cincinnati. Batavia is a village of less than 2,000 people. Classic early American downtown with 19th century brick buildings. There's even a historic covered bridge down the road. When east river opened, Pastor Michael Foster greeted his new flock.

[Michael Foster]

My name is Michael Foster. I'm the pastor of East River. We're a new church plant and I'm excited to see the interest. I know some of you are just well wishers that want to come and support us, so thank you so much.

[Heath Druzen]

Be praying for us in the language of some Christian faiths. Michael had just planted East River Church. Church planting is a term from the Bible. From Corinthians 3, 5, 7. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. I planted the seed in your hearts and Apollos watered it. But it was God who made it grow a unquote. Simply put, it means opening a new church, filling a spiritual space that had been empty. Churches are planted to preach the gospel and harvest more souls. In the case of east river, it's nothing flashy, just an unassuming metal industrial building.

[Michael Foster]

I wanted a cathedral so bad, but it's not going to happen.

[Heath Druzen]

So I know it seems like we're going over a seemingly simple concept of opening churches to spread the word. That's because there's more to it than that. Churches like Doug Wilson's Christchurch have national ambitions. Those national ambitions include creating an explicitly Christian nation. And they strategically plant churches to increase their influence in Batavia. Michael Foster is the one making it happen. It's no accident he ended up there. He's a man with a plan. And to Michael, the town of Batavia is strategically located. Here he is giving a talk about church plant strategy.

[Michael Foster]

We chose Batavia because it's a small county seat that we think people have been sleeping on. Claremont county is a pretty important county here in a purplish swing state that is Ohio. We think we could come in here and be a huge blessing and have massive influence pretty quick. Within a couple of years. And it does seem like the Lord has given us favor and that's happening.

[Heath Druzen]

It's not that Batavia itself is the prize. It's more like a comfortable base right by enemy lines. The enemy being the unbeliever. It's a place where you can push influence into the larger communities around it through the believers you bring in.

[Michael Foster]

Find a community that's a winnable and worthwhile hill. This is a place that's small enough for you to have influence, large and strategic enough to have some cultural, economic and political significance.

[Heath Druzen]

A lot of Michael's message is based in positive actions. Basically, be a good neighbor.

[Michael Foster]

Look for ways to improve your community that builds a coalition around the common good. In other words, be a leader. Buy local wherever possible and reasonable. Open a business in your town. You want to help people, give them jobs. You know how many of us have found mentors in the workplace but not in the church? You know, the opportunity to get into people's life for the power of the gospel is power that's there. You're feeding their family by opening up your business.

[Heath Druzen]

Michael's East River Church is part of Doug Wilson's Council of Reformed Evangelical Churches, Douglas, the Christchurch umbrella organization that now has more than 130 churches around the country. Doug says even though they're part of his organization, the pastors on the ground, like Michael Foster, are in charge of their churches.

[Doug Wilson]

It's important to emphasize that I do think that I'm influential and I do think I'm a leader in it, but I'm not an emperor. I don't run everything. And sometimes I wish I did, but some, but I'm not in that position.

[Heath Druzen]

But Doug's ideas and the ideas behind Christchurch are spreading across the country through these affiliates. And that's part of the reason we're telling you about some small town preacher in Ohio. Because just like the church is more than just a small town church, Michael Foster is much more than a small town preacher. He's kind of a Jesus entrepreneur looking to maximize soul purchases nationwide. Michael moved his family from South Carolina to a little farm in Batavia before opening East river in 2020.

[Michael Foster]

We lived in the city and did all that and we wanted to buy some area with, you know, some land for the kids to run around and play and wear themselves out. My wife's real into gardens and wanted some chickens, he says.

[Heath Druzen]

When he arrived, there was such an outpouring of interest in the church that he actually opened it three months earlier than expected.

[Michael Foster]

And I had always imagined having like a 5075 adult church. That's what I was hoping for. I just wanted a country church. But the very first night we had like 135 people at our church and it's continued to grow.

[Heath Druzen]

Michael says he now has around 400 congregants, but he's reaching way more people than that. Michael's got 45,000 followers on X, what most of us still call Twitter. He's got an influential Christian men's book called It's Good to Be a Man and a popular website of the same name. He's a national thing in Christian pro patriarchy circles. Here's Michael talking about his book in a Canon Press interview.

[Michael Foster]

A man and a woman both orbit around the sun. God is the center, but there's a suborbit where a woman needs to orbit around a man.

[Heath Druzen]

And Michael, he's kind of the chief church plant guru in the Doug Wilson orbit. He's more than 2,000 miles from Moscow, Idaho, but he's spreading the message of patriarchal fundamentalism across America. Michael is a regular on the Christian conference circuit showing preachers how to strategically plant churches to maximize Christian influence in the country. And a lot of what he preaches in his church plant strategy. We already heard about being a good neighbor. After that though, the strategy starts sounding more like a takeover and at times a hostile one.

[Michael Foster]

We'll just keep them out. They're pagans. They're wicked. We don't want that in here.

[Heath Druzen]

That's after the break.

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[Heath Druzen]

So there's the positive message of improving your city. That's the soft power. The next step in Michael Foster's blueprint is to actually take power in government. That means getting elected to the vital local government positions too few people pay attention to. Here he is explaining his strategy to a Christian political conference called County Before Country.

[Michael Foster]

Run for any and all local offices and encourage all like minded Christian community members to do likewise. All the dumb ones, comptroller, health department, all those are very powerful.

[Heath Druzen]

Zoning, zoning and then the next part of the plan and gets a little devious. What if an adult store wants to open up in your town? Perfectly legal, perhaps, but according to Michael, perfectly immoral. He implies that with allies on the right local boards, you can stop them through subterfuge.

[Michael Foster]

Zoning can just keep it out. We just keep losing their applications or whatever. We'll just keep them out. They're pagans. They're wicked. We don't want that in here, right? Or you can just find a little jack. Whatever.

[Heath Druzen]

According to Ohio law, it's illegal for public records to be, quote, removed, destroyed, mutilated, transferred or otherwise damaged or disposed of, unquote. I asked Michael about this.

[Michael Foster]

I think I was being tongue in cheek, but I don't really remember.

[Heath Druzen]

He says he doesn't support anyone committing crimes to keep unchristian businesses out. Either way, the point is take power and use it to make things more Christian or at least less secular. If government office isn't your thing, Michael has other tips for stymieing what he sees as unchristian organizations.

[Michael Foster]

I used to complain about every zoning rule I could think of, every building code I could think of. With our local abortion clinic in South Carolina. I'd call and complain about the height of their fences and their bushes, whatever I could think of, you know, just to be annoying, to make it harder on them.

[Heath Druzen]

Michael's blueprint for Christianizing communities hasn't been fully realized yet in Batavia, Ohio. But one of Michael's church elders did just get elected to town council and the size of his congregation is pretty significant. 400 in a town of less than 2,000 people. A successful church plant doesn't mean you're done though.

[Doug Wilson]

When a church plant is successful and they're up and running and they're paying the bills and people are coming. One of the first things that they should set their minds to is planting.

[Heath Druzen]

A school after the break. Indoctrinating the kids.

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[Heath Druzen]

Christian nationalists like Doug love to use military metaphors. The push to Christianize America is a war. Believers are soldiers. Students are ammunition. To be clear, Doug has not advocated for violence, but he constantly uses violent language. I'm a former war correspondent, so I'm going to go with a theme here. Doug's Blueprint for a National Takeover. It's kind of a hearts and minds campaign that was part of the US Counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan, where soldiers try to convince the locals they're a better alternative than the other guys. So planting churches, it's kind of the hart's part. And in Doug Wilson's thinking, you need to simultaneously capture young minds, which means schools. As successful as Doug Wilson has been at increasing his network of churches, he's been even more more successful in education. He sees the whole country as a battlefield and his students are weapons for Christianity. Remember what he said about his college nsa.

[Doug Wilson]

We want to treat NSA like a munitions factory.

[Heath Druzen]

Earlier in the season, we heard how Doug built Logos, his school in Moscow, Idaho. He took it from just a handful of kids to a major player in local education. Then word spread around the country about what Doug was doing.

[Doug Wilson]

So we started to get phone calls and started to get letters from people who were saying, all right, you persuaded me, we need to start a school like you guys did. How can you help us? And we were just utterly unprepared. You couldn't have been more unprepared than we were.

[Heath Druzen]

So he organized a Christian education conference in Moscow. It was open to anyone who wanted to learn how to teach classical Christian curriculum the Doug Way.

[Doug Wilson]

People came from all over the country to learn how to start this kind of school.

[Heath Druzen]

That's when it dawned on Doug that he might have a national thing going on.

[Doug Wilson]

At that first conference, I thought, we need to start an association. So I drafted the founding documents of accs, association of Classical Christian Schools.

[Heath Druzen]

The association of Classical Christian Schools would serve as a national umbrella group for schools that taught the Logos Way, which in Doug's world means a classical Christian education that's based on a strict belief system where biblical principles are at the core of every subject. That's whether it's philosophy or physics. And he made this kind of education available for a lot of the country.

[Doug Wilson]

I don't think that a classical Christian school is sort of mandatory for everybody, but I have developed the vision of thinking that I would like a classical Christian school to be available for any Christian parent who wants to do that. There should be one within commuting distance.

[Heath Druzen]

Some of the ACCS schools have ads explaining their philosophies.

[Michael Foster]

Hello, everyone.

[Heath Druzen]

My name is Bill Stutzman. I'm The K through 6 principal at foundations Academy, and I'm standing imagine a.

[Michael Foster]

Community of those who profess faith in.

[Heath Druzen]

Christ, learning to live in community together. There's a culture war going on in our society, and being a part of what's going on with changing young people's lives, preparing them for some of the fallacious ideas that they'll be dealing with as they start to enter this world.

[Michael Foster]

That gives me a lot of fulfillment.

[Heath Druzen]

Knowing that we are preparing hearts and minds sometimes. In addition to the schools, Doug's canon press churns out homeschooling materials in his classical Christian mode. And Logos Online provides remote classes across the country. The schools, the churches, the publishing house, not to mention a whole media ecosystem from his partners and supporters. My podcast partner, Jimmy coined a term for it. Doug's Christian industrial complex. And Doug developed a kind of franchise system to get what he calls classical Christian education into to the masses, and it blew up.

[Doug Wilson]

ACCS has something like 400 schools, and there's like 50,000 students in the school system.

[Heath Druzen]

Doug is actually being modest here. There are now 475 ACCS schools. They're in almost every state and 14 foreign countries. Again, 50,000 students across the country. That's quite the army and a lot of munitions for Doug's spiritual war. ACCS is now one of the largest Christian school accreditation organizations in the U.S. doug says ACCS was growing before recent years, but that an unlikely unwitting ally has recently pushed up interest even from.

[Doug Wilson]

A conservative evangelical Christian worldview standpoint. If you look at what we call clown world the last three years, the masking, the lockdowns, the trans stuff, the sex ed stuff, all the stuff that's going on in the government schools, it's as though public educators decided, what can we do to juice enrollment and proud private Christian schools? How can we chase as many kids out of here as we as we possibly can? And they're doing it.

[Heath Druzen]

And Doug says his schools offer a starkly different experience to public ones.

[Doug Wilson]

The official position of the government schools is that the resurrection of Christ is an irrelevant detail in the study of history. And we think it changes everything. If it's true, it changes everything. If it's false, it changes everything in the other direction. There's no splitting the difference there.

[Heath Druzen]

Which is an interesting point from Doug because he likes to accuse public schools of indoctrinating kids. But what he's laying out here, teaching that you can't understand history without accepting the resurrection of Jesus Christ, it sure sounds like indoctrination. So I asked him. And isn't he doing exactly what he accuses public schools of doing?

[Doug Wilson]

Yes, but we've got the nice indoctrination. That's my funny answer. Here's the real answer. I'd go back to what we have our kids do. When you indoctrinate kids, all you're doing is teaching them to parrot. All you're doing is put the nickel in and out comes the expected answer. Okay, but what we do is we have the kids read unbelieving philosophers. We don't just say, hey, kids, Nietzsche said some really bad things. So if you ever hear the word Nietzsche, put your fingers in your ears and run away. That's not what we do. So we walk with the students through what the unbelieving world says.

[Heath Druzen]

So Doug's students read Non Christian philosophers, but their teachers make clear that those philosophers are wrong. The nice indoctrination, the growth in schools and the growth in churches, they go together. Doug doesn't want any of his student munitions getting tainted by someone outside his network just when they're ready to become dangerous. Just like he said earlier that if you plant a church, you should plant a school. Same in reverse if you plant a.

[Doug Wilson]

School first because what we're doing in our schools is so countercultural, it's so swimming upstream that you don't want to be doing something like that five days a week and then having it all undone on Sunday by the pastor making snarky remarks about private education or whatever.

[Heath Druzen]

The spread of this Doug Wilson inspired education model has plenty of people concerned. That includes some Christians who believe strongly in classical education. It includes the person who literally wrote the book on classical education.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I'm Susan Wise Bauer and I, with my mother Jesse Wise wrote a guide to classical education at home called the well Trained Mind.

[Heath Druzen]

The well Trained Mind has been hugely influential since its release in 1999. Susan is a Christian who homeschooled her kids and believes strongly in classical education. She's a classical education consultant and actually gets called out to ACCS schools from time to time. She says Doug is trying to make classical education a tool in the service of far right ideals. And that concerns her.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

His overall influence is huge and dangerous.

[Heath Druzen]

Susan says ACCS has been very successful in becoming the go to organization for classical schools. Part of that is because it offers accreditation which can be difficult for these schools to get otherwise. That convenience comes with a particular vision from the association's founder.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Doug Wilson's take on classical education is important in that. That is one place where he very specifically articulates that if you do not accept the revelation of God through Jesus Christ, you are incapable of understanding and truth. And that's big. That is a huge and scary assertion to make.

[Heath Druzen]

Susan says Doug's rigid vision for classical education is out of step with the vision she supports. A vision that leaves plenty of room for people with different worldviews. And part of Doug's vision in her mind is, is to get kids to think from a Eurocentric perspective. Susan says Doug hasn't been able to turn classical education into a vehicle for widespread Christian nationalism yet.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

That doesn't mean that he won't eventually succeed. And that's why I want to step up and say, when you hear the term classical education, do not automatically assume that it includes these aspects of Christian nationalism. What I would interpret as white first philosophy, or let me rephrase that, European first philosophy of knowledge. What comes out of Europe is superior to what comes out of other cultures. I would reject all of that.

[Heath Druzen]

Most concerning for Susan is how classical Christian education is being used in politics. Some politicians are holding it up as a conservative alternative to public education.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

I do think that the idea of classical education is becoming weaponized, particularly politically.

[Heath Druzen]

She specifically mentions Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. He's gone after what he calls woke education and targeted critical race theory. That's the theory that racism is embedded in government policies and the justice system. It's an educational boogeyman for the right. Here he is at a press conference for his quote, anti woke education Act.

[Instacart]

We also have to protect people and protect our kids from some very pernicious ideologies that are trying to be forced upon them all across the country.

[Heath Druzen]

So earlier this year, I directed the.

[Instacart]

Florida Department of Education to prohibit critical race theory in our K through 12 school.

[Heath Druzen]

DeSantis also signed a bill into law allowing students to skip the SAT or GRE for state college admission. Instead, they can take an obscure classical education test. Historically, mostly Christian schools accepted it. So Governor DeSantis has been effective at changing public education in Florida, the country's third most populous state, and he championed so called classical education in his recent presidential campaign. There are lots of folks like Susan who don't think Doug Wilson style Christian education is, as Doug puts it, the good indoctrination. But they acknowledge they're worried about how good he's been at making people think his version represents classical education.

[Susan Wise Bauer]

Yeah, of course I'm concerned about it. I think it's a false ideology. I think it's an ideology that does not honor God. Look, here's. Here's the ironic part, Heath. I'm actually a Christian, okay? You know, it's not that I think that classical education should be completely secular, but I don't think that classical education should be welded together with this particular view of how God's law should be put into effect in our country.

[Heath Druzen]

This war of ideas will likely keep simmering for years to come between people like Susan Wise Bauer, who sees classical education as welcoming to all, and Doug Wilson, who sees it as preparation for spiritual warfare. And the scales will tip back and forth with the rollercoaster politics of our time. It's hard to know who's winning, whatever that even means. But. But for the moment, Doug Wilson and his allies are the loudest voice. Next time on Extremely American. Onward Christian Soldiers. We go to an annual Christian nationalist festival in Kentucky with a replica of Noah's Ark that's nearly two football fields long. And it's not just to pet kangaroos two by two.

[Michael Foster]

These are red kangaroos.

[Doug Wilson]

They're the largest of kangaroos.

[Heath Druzen]

We're there to hear leading Christian nationalist thinkers from around the country lay out their stark vision for America.

[Instacart]

Pride parades absolutely would be illegal because they're promoting immoral acts and abominative acts and unrighteousness against, you know, men, women and children.

[Heath Druzen]

Extremely American was created by me, Heath Druzen. This season was written and reported by me and James Dawson. Story editing by Morgan Spring, mixing and sound engineering by James Dawson, fact checking by Naomi Barr, additional reporting and special thanks to Mary Ellen Pitney, who was a big help early on and throughout the project. Shout out to Madeline Beck, Sasha Woodruff and Rachel Cohen, who lent us their ears while we were writing this season. Music from Artlist Boise State Public Radio is our partner for this podcast with distribution by the NPR Network. This podcast is made possible through a grant from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. If you're enjoying this season, check out season one of Extremely American. It's an inside look at armed militias and how they're influencing mainstream politics. Thanks for listening.

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